Juggle Property Guide: All characters w/ video!

Pokey86Pokey86 Persistent GitJoined: Posts: 529
Juggle Mechanics Video (100MB - 14 Mins)

Youtube Link

Update Notes:

1: Character names with stars (*) in them have been adjusted for AE, any character without one has no changed juggle properties.

2: With the altered characters, the moves underlined are the altered moves. I would've loved to have made it more obvious but i can't seem to change colour of text anymore.

3: Evil Ryu, Oni, Yun & Yang have been added.

4: If you notice anything wrong with the info in this guide, please let me know & i'll look in to it.
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Comments

  • Pokey86Pokey86 Persistent Git Joined: Posts: 529
    CHARACTER LIST
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  • Pokey86Pokey86 Persistent Git Joined: Posts: 529
    Notes/Updates
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  • AcidGlowAcidGlow ~Misogi~ Joined: Posts: 405 ✭✭
    I got lost in the sea of text. too much for me. I'll just watch the video. :lol:
  • FenorFenor Joined: Posts: 115
    very nice video and tutorial
    thank
  • Mr. XMr. X Non Stop ∞ Climax Joined: Posts: 20,004 ✭✭✭
    Awesome stuff. Appreciate the time you spent.

    Know I understand why anti air duck upper (1 hit) or duck straight doesn't give full animation when you combo into U2 (Dudley).
    "You are all just as bad as the people you hate. You're only interested in characters based on tears." - Since1717
    NO STREAM = DEAD GAME
    PSN: X_the_Genius | GGPO: Mr X | Skype: MisterEcks
  • chirpchirp Joined: Posts: 3,169
    Great stuff, this must have taken ages
  • guns1ingerguns1inger Joined: Posts: 91
    Absolutely fantastic.

    You have given us the blue prints to the game. Creativity and discovery of new combo's will become more frequent.
    Combo videos will become more common place.

    New techniques with characters will be found and old ones will be refined.

    This is the holy grail
  • MRGAYMRGAY meaty atk = my cock Joined: Posts: 634
    Fucking. Fantastic. Props! This is really helping out, gunna try some counter hit shenanigans with Fei Long, see what can be extended just a bit more. =) Which I think isn't too much, judging from the little list you have there. xD
    Avatar by Accel Core. :D

    Ghetto biology, rofl. http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=6507221&postcount=32
  • The Lone DragonThe Lone Dragon perverted feminist Joined: Posts: 2,666 ✭✭✭
    A slight correction...

    The last hit of Sakura Otoshi is HKD+, right?

    And, I believe the first two hits, even though they don't slam down, are still untechable...I don't know what notation you'd use for that.

    Great info, otherwise.
    Watch Porkchop 'n Flatscreen: Episode 2 on Youtube! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53Z4Kj1Etrk
    VIEW my animations and music: http://emezie.com
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  • Pokey86Pokey86 Persistent Git Joined: Posts: 529
    ^^Cheers, updated^^

    Does anyone know the name of any mods here? i really don't fancy this getting lost in past pages. considering i WILL be updating it when new character come to light.
  • Kanta-KunKanta-Kun Magnudisto... BLAAAAAAAST Joined: Posts: 5,463 ✭✭✭✭
    It's Sosage. Sosage rules over all. So ask him for a sticky and I'm quite sure you'll get it here, since this is one of the few useful threads here on this SSFIV board =__=
    "I think the game should punch you in the face every time you pick Nova." -ShadyK
  • SosageSosage Mopping Up Your Salt Joined: Posts: 1,705 mod
    Woah! Just caught this. Stickied up.
    www.DrunkenTemple.com ...cause I am a broke ass artist...
    Keystone II ...cause I like the video games...
    SFIV/SSFIV/MvC3 mod ...cause I enjoy destroying your fun...
    Rindoukan Yellow Belt ...cause I paid 49.95 for lessons at the local strip mall and now I can karakusa online...
  • Pokey86Pokey86 Persistent Git Joined: Posts: 529
  • LazirLazir Joined: Posts: 174
    i have a question. How did you find all of this?!?!?!:looney: This combined with frame data is just too good. Also is there some kind of awesome chart that lists how much pushback a move does on hit and block? Pretty much with Frame data, Juggle Mechanics, Pushback data, and move hitboxes you would literally know every single combo possible. Is there also data about exactly how many frames a move puts the opponent in hit/block stun rather than only frame advantage? I'm just a noob looking for answers:rofl: Also forgot to ask but at around 11:55 in the vid where it explains ryu's juggle properties. does the light tatsu reset all juggle potential and if so wouldn't the last two hits of the metsu hado be jp1 an jp2?
  • Kanta-KunKanta-Kun Magnudisto... BLAAAAAAAST Joined: Posts: 5,463 ✭✭✭✭
    To get hit stun.... there's a formula.

    it's something like... get the moves total frames, deduct start-up frames and recovery? then add/subtract the frame advantage value from that. This right? I dunno, I'm just talking out of my butt right now :P

    EDIT: According to :d: , :u: is fail. Sorry.
    "I think the game should punch you in the face every time you pick Nova." -ShadyK
  • ilitiritilitirit Joined: Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You've got it backwards. There's a formula for frame-advantage, not hit-stun
  • SylariSylari Joined: Posts: 1,445
    You've got it backwards. There's a formula for frame-advantage, not hit-stun

    But frame advantage is just hit stun - recovery?
    SRK's worst Omega Red player.
  • ilitiritilitirit Joined: Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭✭✭
    But frame advantage is just hit stun - recovery?

    Hitstun - recovery - remaining active frames. This is why (late)

    Hitstun cannot be calculated. It's an inherent part of the move, just like damage.
  • cachocapucachocapu Joined: Posts: 52
    I've been wanting something like this for a long time. Mad props man, this must have taken ages to compile.
  • Pokey86Pokey86 Persistent Git Joined: Posts: 529
    i have a question. How did you find all of this?!?!?!:looney:

    Trial & Error, that was the endurance side of this... the hardest part was working out a system that accurately displayed everything & was simple... & yeah it's not exactly simple but still :P Kich was certainly the biggest help in making this though, as he already offered a great outline to work off of, Doopliss certainly contributed masses though.
    Also forgot to ask but at around 11:55 in the vid where it explains ryu's juggle properties. does the light tatsu reset all juggle potential and if so wouldn't the last two hits of the metsu hado be jp1 an jp2?

    no, in that combo the last hits of Metsu & Shinku when hitting a grounded opponent removes all juggle capability, however the LK Tatsu causes Standard Knockdown, which means the final (2) hits of the Metsu hit airborne.

    So at that point the opponent is in JP3 (LK Tatsu = SKD/JP1 + 2 hits of Metsu) in which when the Shinku comes out the first 2 hits (JP1 & JP2) arn't high enough to hit.
  • LazirLazir Joined: Posts: 174
    no, in that combo the last hits of Metsu & Shinku when hitting a grounded opponent removes all juggle capability, however the LK Tatsu causes Standard Knockdown, which means the final (2) hits of the Metsu hit airborne.

    So at that point the opponent is in JP3 (LK Tatsu = SKD/JP1 + 2 hits of Metsu) in which when the Shinku comes out the first 2 hits (JP1 & JP2) arn't high enough to hit.
    Ok thanks for the clarification.
    I'm pretty sure that im not the only one that appreciates all the effort put into this. :tup:
    Now if we can get pushback data we will know all there is to know about this game!! :badboy:
  • Pokey86Pokey86 Persistent Git Joined: Posts: 529
    Well i couldnt help with that, however i was thinking about adding moves which cause crouching opponents to stand as a miner update along with the new characters when they come out. i;m quite sure Yun will have some very good juggles (methinks)
  • LazirLazir Joined: Posts: 174
    If he's anything like his 3rd strike self he should have the best juggles
  • ilitiritilitirit Joined: Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I just noticed now that Ken's EX DP doesn't juggle infinitely any more. It only juggles thrice.
  • Pokey86Pokey86 Persistent Git Joined: Posts: 529
    yup,they altered it, that said it now means you can juggle easier as it can juggle on the first hit, meaning it hits quicker you can also FADC later than it used to (For example LP SRK -> EX SRK (2 hits) -> FADC

    Which originally wasn't possible.
  • JurielJuriel Joined: Posts: 24
    Wow. Didn't expect this much of a thought-out approach to the subject.
  • kwagokwago Joined: Posts: 93
    I really like what you've got going here OP, but for future videos, please consider a typeface that is not so hard on the eyes.
    While not "fun" like Comic Sans, a touch of Helvetica, Verdana, Futura, or Georgia would help immensely?particularly Helvetica and Futura whom have many stroke weights to help build a sense of hierarchy to your information. If you have any questions I can probably answer any typographical questions you can conjure up. Keep up the amazing work sir.
  • Pokey86Pokey86 Persistent Git Joined: Posts: 529
    ^^Cheers^^

    I've often wondered what is the most suitable font for easy reading. I'll probably use Helvetica, as it's pretty easyto remember.

    My olds vids were alot worse trust me, i had this stint where i just loved Monotype Corsovia... it just doesn't work in videos though :P (god knows why i used it)
  • kwagokwago Joined: Posts: 93
    Serif typefaces are best for reading large blocks of type because the serifs create an imaginary line under each line of text. However, you can get away with a Sans Serif if you have enough line spacing (leading) and the typeface itself is not too condensed.

    Actually some others that may work out nice for this are Thesis (aka The Sans, The Serif, The Mix), Apex, or Officina. All of these have versions with and without serifs for maximum versatility.
  • spookydonkeyspookydonkey savin it for nationals Joined: Posts: 463
    firstly, nice work on this :tup:

    secondly, id like to adress something w/cody & zonk knuckle in particular:
    Zonk Knuckle: Normal
    
    JP1 - SKD* - SKD*
    
    *removes all potential for juggle on hit
    

    "*removes all potential for juggle on hit"
    ok lets just go ahead & say that for airborne opponents, this is false :sweat:

    after a knife throw or roundhouse ruffiankick/ex zonk >fadc, you can land zonk & then follow up w/ ex criminalupper( " ) :tup:

    another instance is if you follow up an antiair focusattack lvl2or3 w/a zonk... from which you can chose any of these options to end the juggle:
    • mk ruffian
    • roundhouse ruffian > fadc > excu
    • ex ruffian > ex cu
    • " > fadc > ex cu
    • U1
    • lk super full connect

    roundhouse ruffian >fadc>zonk>ex criminal upper also works after an antiair lvl2or3 focusattack

    so, unless im completely misunderstanding: zonk absolutely does not end all potential for juggle on hitting airborne target :razzy:

    keep up the nice work :china:
    im spookydonkey i punish whiff dps/ultras w/throw so i can setup leet tekkaneeks like ½screen fadcknifepickup to avoid moves that wouldnt hitme anyway but i glow gold & beat people online hellastylin
  • Pokey86Pokey86 Persistent Git Joined: Posts: 529
    You're not wrong, i'm not right, & you're not completely right.

    ---

    Against an airborne (EG: a jumping) enemy, this will remove all potential, however against a juggled enemy "for example JP0 or Float state, or even SKD" it adds one point like most other attacks

    Though cheers for letting me know, i didn't realise this had that capability. I've editted it.In hidsight, after ealising Kens Tatsu works with this samelogic i don't know why i didn't test this out before, but oh well. happens i guess.
  • spookydonkeyspookydonkey savin it for nationals Joined: Posts: 463
    :lol: i figured there was something i was overlooking/not completely grasping

    but no longer... thx for the explanation :pleased:
    im spookydonkey i punish whiff dps/ultras w/throw so i can setup leet tekkaneeks like ½screen fadcknifepickup to avoid moves that wouldnt hitme anyway but i glow gold & beat people online hellastylin
  • Pokey86Pokey86 Persistent Git Joined: Posts: 529
    This guide has now been updated to incorperate the changes in AE

    Update Notes:

    1: Character names with stars (*) in them have been adjusted for AE, any character without one has no changed juggle properties.

    2: With the altered characters, the moves underlined are the altered moves.

    3: Evil Ryu, Oni, Yun & Yang have been added.

    4: If you notice anything wrong with the info in this guide, please let me know & i'll look in to it.
  • onReloadonReload what's a combo Joined: Posts: 209
    Hey Pokey - should anybody with the PC-only boss mod try figuring out differences for the boss characters, or is that not a priority?
  • Pokey86Pokey86 Persistent Git Joined: Posts: 529
    If someone does it, i'll add the info. I have no way of testing though.
  • crazy0takucrazy0taku Joined: Posts: 6
    thanks this is some pretty interesting stuff. way too advanced for me to think about now but good to know that it exists.
    PSN: gistarune
    SSF4 AE : Fei Long/Ryu
  • DanoninoDanonino Winning for once. Joined: Posts: 510
    I think my mind just broke.

    I'm hoping I've grasped this and Im wondering if Im understanding it all correctly:
    *deep breath

    As Guy:
    His Target Combo (bushin chain :lp::mp::hp::hk:) followed by ex Hozanto shoulder (JP1 - SKD - SKD) then FADC =
    cannot be followed up with anything other than his Super (JPX - Auto - Auto) which is impossible after using 3 bars.

    His Target Combo isnt listed so I'm thinking the :hk: puts them at JP1,
    which means the ex Hozanto adds another JP1 = JP2
    and he has nothing outside of super that has JP2 ability and starts up quick enough to catch the falling opponent.
    *exhale

    Does this sound right, or have I misunderstood how this works?
    Never attempt the same move after you have been once thwarted!
  • Pokey86Pokey86 Persistent Git Joined: Posts: 529
    That's exactly right... & thank you for pointing out that i didn't add the target combo (Which does put them in JP1)

    Here are some cool things Guy can do though:

    Neutral jump HK high in the air (2 hits) then Ultra the second you land, enemy falls on second hit & you get full ultra.

    Running Overhead airborne hits (Hits twice) -> EX Hozanto/Tatsu in corner

    Running Overhead airborne hit (Hits once) -> Any normal

    Running Overhead airborne hit (Hits once) -> EX Hozanto -> FADC (Or Tatsu in corner) -> EX Hozantu

    ---

    Oh, guys target, in which he throws them over his shoulder, causes float state. sadly you only have time to follow up with a quick normal or a Tatsu. (Tatsu hits full though, which means you can link in to Super after.)

    I'll add the targets now.
  • DanoninoDanonino Winning for once. Joined: Posts: 510
    snip

    awesome :D and thanks for the extras... i can see myself using neutral jump HK into Ultra, I was always struggling to find a use for it.
    Never attempt the same move after you have been once thwarted!
  • Pokey86Pokey86 Persistent Git Joined: Posts: 529
    ^^Huh? Babelfish translation?^^

    Someone asked me about pushback properties, i don't have the resources to study it, everything i did he was deciphered in training mode.

    besides things like hitbox manipulation, pushback, mid-combo meaties are massively character specific, it'd take yonks to compile all that stuff.
  • Pokey86Pokey86 Persistent Git Joined: Posts: 529
    2012 Adjustments
    Spoiler:
  • sarif2soonsarif2soon Joined: Posts: 353 ✭✭
    hey, pokey, for seth's 3rd yosokyaku, it says:
    "Yosokyaku: Stomp

    1st: JP2 - Stun - SKD
    2nd: JP3 - Stun - SKD
    3rd: JP4 - Stun - SKD"

    but the thrid yosokyaku does not cause hitstun against a grounded opponent; it causes hard untechable knockdown (i even made a safe-jump video of it )
  • Pokey86Pokey86 Persistent Git Joined: Posts: 529
    It does, & i knew that too, just missed it i guess. (alot of C&P'ing goes in to the making of this thing)

    It'll go on the list for the USFIV Update, cheers
  • LAU-HKLAU-HK Joined: Posts: 1,012 ✭✭
    am i reading this right....

    a move can juggle as long your follow up move is the SAME POINT or higher...

    I know most of Blanka's moves are like JP0

    but honestly i have never seen any of Blanka's special hitting twice from a trade or whatever odd situation it might create (with exception to EX Ball FADC combos)
  • m16ghostm16ghost Joined: Posts: 1,802 ✭✭✭
    When an opponent gets knocked down, they start at JP1, so JP0 moves will not juggle. Only float knockdowns start off with JP0.
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