Old/New Characters Hit Box Diagrams + Drag N Drop Theory Fighter

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  • FulaaniFulaani Of terrorist descent Joined: Posts: 2,555
    he was speaking from a shoto standpoint. but chun can make crossup tatsus whiff by just holding neutral down cant she?
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  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    I see. Then he was not actually right: they do not change at all. She can, but (specially Ryu's) cross-up tatsus are always a risk. The only guaranteed way is timing it perfectly so that the leg always hits behind as the character lands, which is something I do not know how to do. By crouching, Chun also risks eating a roundhouse-fierce-hadouken combo, which would pretty much end the round, so against players who know the timing and distance for deep cross-ups that can be disastrous.
  • zaspacerzaspacer Joined: Posts: 553
    Go ahead and make it.

    Here are two great charts for throw paramaters:

    1) Throw Range for all throws
    T.Akiba's SF2 Data

    2) Throw Damage for all throws
    T.Akiba's SF2 Data

    I imagine most people here have seen them.

    It would also be great to have other data for throws:
    * dizzy meter boost
    * distance opponent is thrown
    * distance your character is moved away
    * your character recovery on throw
    * opponent character recovery on throw
    * actual throw range to-hit and get-hit boxes
    * etc.

    Taking the data from link #2, I implemented it into the following image:

    SSF2T%20Throw%20Damage.PNG

    I can work on a similar image for the 1st link (basically a comprehensive throw range chart). Though I am not sure using the measurements from NKI's site are the best number. (do they refer to distance from one character's centerpoint to the edge of the other character's "to-hit" throw hitbox?)

    I also can make bar charts showing a character vs. each other character in their throw distance advantages by degree.
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  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Great stuff, zaspacer. If you will accept a suggestion, it would be to add a space between the commas and the numbers for throws with more than one part. In Europe (UK aside) and South America, commas are used to separate the integer part from the fractional one, so it is hard to not read them as non-integer numbers at first glance. Say, Honda's grab looks like 24.4% damage.
  • geogeo Official Contrarian Joined: Posts: 1,291
    What use is this? I'm not being obstinate, I really don't know when I'd refer to this chart.
    Just one example of ST fundamentalism on dontblowthis.com: "HDR is just another game with no relation to the Street Fighter II series" - riz0ne
  • VirtuaFighterFourVirtuaFighterFour VirtuaFighter.com Joined: Posts: 1,572
    Don't forget that normal throws can be softened for half of the damage so you have to take that into account when you want to go for your highest damage throw. Secondly some allow[/URL] for canned followups or even set up for safe jumps into another throw or less safe throw loops. Holds can also do far more damage than normal throws (though hold can be struggled for zero damage it's very rare). Some throws have quick resets near the corner after a throw tech and you have stuff like Dictator's cross up slide after a throw tech. Remember that O.Characters cannot tech or soften throws, meaning you get more damage, plus [URL=" off of okizeme. There's lots more than raw immediate damage that you need to factor in when deciding what throw to use where and when.
    VF5:FS - Akira, Jean, Wolf, Taka
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  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,568
    About 2 years ago wen I started to play this game Valle gave me the tip to keep the stick in neutral instead of holding back. The reason was that your block animation makes your vulnerable hitbox wider.

    Can you confirm this?

    I just captured some images yesterday and this is wrong.

    Almost all the hitboxes are identical whether you're in block animation or in neutral position.

    The only cases I see differences for some characters are when the head is tilted (the tiny hixbox at the top), and that is negligible (it is tilted backward so it's better than neutral).

    I'll include both images later when I update the standing and couching section with pushboxes included.

    [edit: updated. seems like only boxer has a difference hit box when in block animation (leaning back)]
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
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  • FulaaniFulaani Of terrorist descent Joined: Posts: 2,555
    then perhaps I misunderstood his comment way back then. thanks for testing :)
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  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Ditto on the quick resets in the corner: I must have been swept after a bite on the corner like a 1000 times, due to mashing in lag. There is also the Chun getting SPD'ed on the corner, and the "maybe it's a bad idea" at softening Fei's kick throw when cornered.
  • CauldrathCauldrath Joined: Posts: 617
    Maybe the chart would be more useful if it was sorted by throw range, then by damage, with the strongest throw at each given range highlighted? So, Zangief's would look like:

    Fierce SPD (highlighted)
    Strong SPD
    Jab SPD
    360+RH (close) (highlighted)
    360+RH (far)
    360+Short/Forward (far)
    360+Short/Forward (close)
    All the grabs
    FAB (highlighted with the super color)
    My blog where I try to break games: http://cauldrath.blogspot.com/
    My videos of me trying to break games: http://www.youtube.com/user/Cauldrath
  • FulaaniFulaani Of terrorist descent Joined: Posts: 2,555
    Can't fei do that ambiguous ground crossup after a teched kick throw mid screen as well?
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  • geogeo Official Contrarian Joined: Posts: 1,291
    Don't forget that normal throws can be softened for half of the damage so you have to take that into account when you want to go for your highest damage throw. Secondly some allow[/URL] for canned followups or even set up for safe jumps into another throw or less safe throw loops. Holds can also do far more damage than normal throws (though hold can be struggled for zero damage it's very rare). Some throws have quick resets near the corner after a throw tech and you have stuff like Dictator's cross up slide after a throw tech. Remember that O.Characters cannot tech or soften throws, meaning you get more damage, plus [URL=" off of okizeme. There's lots more than raw immediate damage that you need to factor in when deciding what throw to use where and when.

    Bravo as always sir.
    Just one example of ST fundamentalism on dontblowthis.com: "HDR is just another game with no relation to the Street Fighter II series" - riz0ne
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Can't fei do that ambiguous ground crossup after a teched kick throw mid screen as well?
    I don't know... I have learned it does work at the corner the worst way! :lol:
  • zaspacerzaspacer Joined: Posts: 553
    Great stuff, zaspacer. If you will accept a suggestion, it would be to add a space between the commas and the numbers for throws with more than one part.

    Sounds like a smart change. I've made the change, just refresh the page to see the updated version.
    geo wrote:
    What use is this? I'm not being obstinate, I really don't know when I'd refer to this chart.
    There's lots more than raw immediate damage that you need to factor in when deciding what throw to use where and when.

    Two ends of the spectrum.

    Geo does not think move damage info is useful.
    VirtuaFighterFour thinks that move damage info is useful, but it is not the only variable to be considered in a game situation.

    I agree with VirtuaFighterFour, but I have a slightly different take on it:
    Move damage info is useful, but it is OFTEN not the only variable to be considered in a game situation. (since I agree with VirtuaFighterFour that there are multiple variables in determining which throw to use, but I recognize that there are some situations where you are only concerned about raw damage)

    In answer to geo's question, you would refer to the chart when you are playing a character with multiple throw options that have different damage, and decide on the best throw for the situation based on range, damage, possible tech, position on screen, positional follow-ups after throw, etc.

    Chun's Fierce and Strong throw have the same range. But if you want to maximize damage, you will use her Strong Throw. If you are going to negative edge command throw an opponent, timing it so that you cycle through your best damage options first can give you a better shot at doing more damage.
    Don't forget that normal throws can be softened for half of the damage so you have to take that into account when you want to go for your highest damage throw. Secondly some holds allow for canned followups or even set up for safe jumps into another throw or less safe throw loops. Holds can also do far more damage than normal throws (though hold can be struggled for zero damage it's very rare). Some throws have quick resets near the corner after a throw tech and you have stuff like Dictator's cross up slide after a throw tech. Remember that O.Characters cannot tech or soften throws, meaning you get more damage, plus additional damage potential off of okizeme.

    Agree 100%. :)

    Great breakdown.

    * Toss throws can be throw teched by N.Characters to reduce damage by 1/2.
    * O.Characters cannot throw tech toss throws, meaning you get maximum damage, plus additional damage potential off of "okizeme".
    * A toss throw that is throw teched will also change the recovery time/position/game state of an opponent being thrown. Some toss throws have quick resets near the corner after a throw tech and you have stuff like Dictator's cross up slide after a throw tech.
    * Grab throws cannot be teched.
    * Some grab throws allow for canned followups or even set up for safe jumps into another throw or less safe throw loops.
    * Grab throws have variable damage and have the potential to do far more damage than toss throws (though grab throws can be struggled out of by an opponent for zero damage, it's very rare).

    Look over these bullet points and see if they are correct/good. Once approved I will add them to the image footnotes. Also, please add more bullets that you think should be included.
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  • FulaaniFulaani Of terrorist descent Joined: Posts: 2,555
    About Blanka. His jump forward HP. I used to believe it had two different hitboxes during it's animation. Am I wrong about that?

    Also about electricity. I believe the retation between active and non active hitboxes were a mistake. Checking the hitboxes in HDR Classic mode and just by experience I believe electricity is active constantly. It never get's beaten by a move it otherwise beats, which negates the probability of non active hitboxes.

    The only thing I find lacking still with the hitboxes is a single neutral rame before the attack animation. This would serve as a reference. Like some moves push the character forward, some pull them backwards. Going right into animation frames you lose some of that information which can be useful in determining what has the best range or the best evasive qualities or whatever.

    Also, invincibility frame data and such would be nice to put in.

    Lol sorry for being demanding, just some suggestions. AWESOME job dude.

    *edit* whoa I didn't realize Blankas throw straight up outranges Sims noogie and Boxers headbut. T.Akibas site led me to believe they were equal.
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  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    About Blanka. His jump forward HP. I used to believe it had two different hitboxes during it's animation. Am I wrong about that?

    Yeah, I thought that too, doesn't Blanka have an animation where his hands are pointing straight down? I believe this frame has a hitting box.
    *edit* whoa I didn't realize Blankas throw straight up beats Sims noogie and Boxers headbut. T.Akibas site led me to believe they were equal.

    I used to think that too. It's cuz I was looking at their range vs Ryu and thinking it was the same range vs each other. Now I just use the absolute values and compare Blanka's range vs Dhalsim and vice versa. Blanka beats everybody's normal throws except Honda.

    BTW papasi, really good work, this is becoming a very useful tool like NKI's site, and will be a definitive guide to Old and New characters. However, there are a couple of things that concern me:

    -O.Ryu's close Short and Forward are the same as O.Ken
    -N.Ken's far Short is the same as his close Short with a slightly different hitbox
    -O.Ken and N.Ken's Fierce Shoryuken and N.Ken's Super has a different animation for the 1st hitting frame, it's the same as the 1st frame of the Jab or Strong Shoryuken, except it hits
    -also I know I said this before, but I would highly recommend having all the different strengths of all Special Attacks because some strengths have hitbox differences, like N.Ken and N.Ryu's Jab Shoryuken has a different size vulnerable hitbox than the Strong or Fierce Shoryuken, this was one of the biggest limitations of YBH IMO

    IDK that Dhalsim's Yoga Blasts had different size hitboxes based on the strength, good shit. = J
  • zaspacerzaspacer Joined: Posts: 553
    Fulaani wrote:
    About 2 years ago wen I started to play this game Valle gave me the tip to keep the stick in neutral instead of holding back. The reason was that your block animation makes your vulnerable hitbox wider.

    Can you confirm this?
    I just captured some images yesterday and this is wrong.

    Almost all the hitboxes are identical whether you're in block animation or in neutral position.

    The only cases I see differences for some characters are when the head is tilted (the tiny hixbox at the top), and that is negligible (it is tilted backward so it's better than neutral).

    I'll include both images later when I update the standing and couching section with pushboxes included.

    [edit: updated. seems like only boxer has a difference hit box when in block animation (leaning back)]

    I could be that by being in a block position, the cross-up tatsu triggers block state and freezes you into facing away from the cross-up. While if being in neutral position, the cross-up tatsu does not trigger a block state and the character is able to change their facing.

    So it doesn't change the hit box, but it changes the direction the hit box is facing.

    Just a thought.

    Also, it would be great to see/know the the duration of the block pose freeze. (is it a fixed min? does it change based on move? etc.) I sometimes use a whiff standing Jab to freeze my opponent in a block state before I go for a throw, so that control inputs they do in response during their freeze don't execute. Likewise, Snake Eyes likes to do a standing Roundhouse vs. a wakeing-up opponent to freeze them into a block stun on wake-up, then he SPDs them when the Roundhouse recovers.
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  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,568
    About Blanka. His jump forward HP. I used to believe it had two different hitboxes during it's animation. Am I wrong about that?
    Yeah, I thought that too, doesn't Blanka have an animation where his hands are pointing straight down? I believe this frame has a hitting box.

    I need to double check tonight.
    but looking at the t akiba's frame data 5 6 27 & YBH, there is only one active frame
    Also about electricity. I believe the retation between active and non active hitboxes were a mistake.

    If you look at t.akiba's data, he did indicate it is alternating between active and inactive.

    T.Akiba's Street Fighter 2 Frame Data

    but i notice in game that it's all red hitboxes. so i guess t.akiba's mistake?
    if anyone can confirm i'll update mine to reflect this.

    The only thing I find lacking still with the hitboxes is a single neutral rame before the attack animation. This would serve as a reference. Like some moves push the character forward, some pull them backwards. Going right into animation frames you lose some of that information which can be useful in determining what has the best range or the best evasive qualities or whatever.

    that is the standing hitbox at the top of each page. i didn't want to include it in every move to reduce the clutter
    Also, invincibility frame data and such would be nice to put in.

    yes, that's what i want to. does anyone know if there are invincibility frame data out there? i dont think t.akiba has it.

    if anyone can help out on this, it would be awesome.

    *edit* whoa I didn't realize Blankas throw straight up outranges Sims noogie and Boxers headbut. T.Akibas site led me to believe they were equal.

    yes, t.akiba's table is hard to digest as is. after i break it down i found many surprise myself too.


    -O.Ryu's close Short and Forward are the same as O.Ken
    -N.Ken's far Short is the same as his close Short with a slightly different hitbox

    what is the concern? they are not like this in HDR?
    -O.Ken and N.Ken's Fierce Shoryuken and N.Ken's Super has a different animation for the 1st hitting frame, it's the same as the 1st frame of the Jab or Strong Shoryuken, except it hits

    i already have pointed out this issue in the hitbox mode thread. the lua script generating the hitboxes has 1-2 frames delay.
    for moves that stay in animation for at least 3 frames, i can just move to the last frame and still capture the hitbox w/ animation in sync.

    but for move that only stay for 1 frame, the animation and the hitboxes are off.
    there are a few cases in my jpeg capture. the fierce dp is one of them. however, all the hitboxes are still correct, it's just the animation is out of sync.
    -also I know I said this before, but I would highly recommend having all the different strengths of all Special Attacks because some strengths have hitbox differences, like N.Ken and N.Ryu's Jab Shoryuken has a different size vulnerable hitbox than the Strong or Fierce Shoryuken, this was one of the biggest limitations of YBH IMO

    i hear you dude. i already did that for all the N chars. I'll update old ryu/ken's DP later :)

    I could be that by being in a block position, the cross-up tatsu triggers block state and freezes you into facing away from the cross-up. While if being in neutral position, the cross-up tatsu does not trigger a block state and the character is able to change their facing.

    i believe so too. but need testing to prove that it really locks you in the wrong blocking direction and force you to eat a cross up tatsu
    Likewise, Snake Eyes likes to do a standing Roundhouse vs. a wakeing-up opponent to freeze them into a block stun on wake-up, then he SPDs them when the Roundhouse recovers.

    it's a common trick
    early jump RH also does that.
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
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  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Sup, Zaspacer. I do not believe there is such a thing as being locked in, say, "non-cross-up" animation. I suppose it is related to getting pinned due to blocking and having to decide based on this fixed position. Add to it the inherent 3-4 frame input latency and can happen. The fast forward tatsu is an old Ryu trick and it is possible to block it by moving the stick forward in time.

    I did check the block lock-down on hit: it takes significantly more time to be able to walk then jump, use normal attacks or throws and specials. Apart from that, I guess it is more about messing up the enemy's distance control, as they can recover from blocking while the attacker recovers from the whiffed move. Also, if the move is done too far (like almost full screen), then there will not be a blocking animation.

    The standing roundhouse trick is quite old. It is a WW/CE thing, I believe (in WW Gief would land right beside the poor enemy and there was no reversal frame, so it was useless).

    Edit:
    does anyone know if there are invincibility frame data out there? i dont think t.akiba has it.
    I does not for a number of moves, such as tatsus. It lists the start-up, but it is completely vulnerable in WW, invulnerable in CE and HF, and invulnerable for 3 or 4 frames only in S2/ST. BTW, the ' key moves the game one frame forward in mame-rr: that might help getting such data.

    Edit nr 2:
    Great breakdown.

    * Toss throws can be throw teched by N.Characters to reduce damage by 1/2.
    * O.Characters cannot throw tech toss throws, meaning you get maximum damage, plus additional damage potential off of "okizeme".
    * A toss throw that is throw teched will also change the recovery time/position/game state of an opponent being thrown. Some toss throws have quick resets near the corner after a throw tech and you have stuff like Dictator's cross up slide after a throw tech.
    * Grab throws cannot be teched.
    * Some grab throws allow for canned followups or even set up for safe jumps into another throw or less safe throw loops.
    * Grab throws have variable damage and have the potential to do far more damage than toss throws (though grab throws can be struggled out of by an opponent for zero damage, it's very rare).

    Look over these bullet points and see if they are correct/good. Once approved I will add them to the image footnotes. Also, please add more bullets that you think should be included.
    I would add that tosses can not be teched for reducing damage if the full damage is enough to finish the round, that is, kill the enemy.
  • FulaaniFulaani Of terrorist descent Joined: Posts: 2,555
    that is the standing hitbox at the top of each page. i didn't want to include it in every move to reduce the clutter
    I know it's up there. But that's not what I'm getting at.

    What I'm getting at is that the animation of a move sometimes pulls the character back, or pushes it forward. reducing or extending the range respectively. If you don't know where the character starts out it's unclear how far an attack reaches in front of him. Like for example Blankas cr.mp vs cr.hp. I know personally that cr.hp has more range but the sprites make it very ambiguous if you don't know where blankas center is.

    A snapshot on a different stage or different part of a stage doesn't help determine it.
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  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,568
    I know it's up there. But that's not what I'm getting at.

    What I'm getting at is that the animation of a move sometimes pulls the character back, or pushes it forward. reducing or extending the range respectively. If you don't know where the character starts out it's unclear how far an attack reaches in front of him. Like for example Blankas cr.mp vs cr.hp. I know personally that cr.hp has more range but the sprites make it very ambiguous if you don't know where blankas center is.

    A snapshot on a different stage or different part of a stage doesn't help determine it.

    You need an animated gif in that case.

    Originally I thought about uploading all the videos to youtube.
    But each of them is ~1.2G big so I gave up.
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
    Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
  • FulaaniFulaani Of terrorist descent Joined: Posts: 2,555
    nah don't need a gif. just the one frame before he does the attack. like this.

    http://www.pedantic.org/~nate/HDR/blanka/crstrong.html

    it gives you a reference of what the center of blankas sprite is and gives you a definite answer of how far the move reaches. without knowing his center in a neutral state you can't tell this.

    anyways, i dont wanna press too hard, its not THAT big a deal.
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  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Just as a sidenote




    throw trick 4[/URL] (fake [URL=" )
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=lvYQCWRX5h&0#t=7m21s";
  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    Yes, that's what i want to. does anyone know if there are invincibility frame data out there? i dont think t.akiba has it.

    if anyone can help out on this, it would be awesome.

    IDK about O.characters, but YBH has invincibility and airborne data for all N.characters. I use NKI's YBH translation pic.

    what is the concern? they are not like this in HDR?

    They are not like that in SUPER TURBO. You have O.Ryu's close Short and Forward like this, but it should be like this. And N.Ken's far Short is incorrect.

    i already have pointed out this issue in the hitbox mode thread. the lua script generating the hitboxes has 1-2 frames delay.
    for moves that stay in animation for at least 3 frames, i can just move to the last frame and still capture the hitbox w/ animation in sync.

    but for move that only stay for 1 frame, the animation and the hitboxes are off.
    there are a few cases in my jpeg capture. the fierce dp is one of them. however, all the hitboxes are still correct, it's just the animation is out of sync.

    Ok cool, thanks for that.


    i hear you dude. i already did that for all the N chars. I'll update old ryu/ken's DP later :)

    Awesome bro, thanks again. Just to recap, you only have N.Ryu's Jab Shoryuken and N.Ken's Jab and Fierce Shoryuken. Whenever you get to it is cool, take your time. = J
  • Born2SPDBorn2SPD SPD Fanatic Joined: Posts: 276
    Nice job capturing all the hitboxes!. Theres some really interesting differences from Old to New Characters, like chun's diagonal jump kicks or gief's st.RH... I was thinking, to capture the frame data from Old chars, the "advance to next frame" feature from fba/mame could be used (just saying, if this was missed). Also, it looks like you forgot the Boxer's Kick super.
    I keep reading stuff about ST revival, about bringing this game back to life...
    Its nice to see big tourneys happening and old top players giving this game a chance again...
    But what we really need is new players... And having a strong scene obviously helps...
    But in my opinion what will really bring new players to our community is good tutorials/character guides so they can learn easily and have something to start... So, actually good players, stop being selfish and write stuff about the chars you know! The wiki is lacking so much basic content... Stop being lazy and do something about it.
  • zaspacerzaspacer Joined: Posts: 553
    i already have pointed out this issue in the hitbox mode thread. the lua script generating the hitboxes has 1-2 frames delay.
    for moves that stay in animation for at least 3 frames, i can just move to the last frame and still capture the hitbox w/ animation in sync.

    I think this sync issue might be happening for your hitbox for Dictator's Strong Skull Crusher:
    Super Street Fighter II Turbo - Hitbox Diagrams : M.Bison

    Strong Skull Crusher
    6_cr.jpg

    I think it's lower left edge is positioned over his belt buckle like the Jab and Fierce versions.

    Jab Skull Crusher
    5_cr.jpg

    Fierce Skull Crusher
    7_cr.jpg
    I would add that tosses can not be teched for reducing damage if the full damage is enough to finish the round, that is, kill the enemy.

    Sup, oldschool.

    Yes, great bullet point! :)
    Totally forgot that one. :o

    * Toss throws cannot be be throw teched if the full damage would be lethal.

    I should probably add the damage scaling info as well:
    http://nki.combovideos.com/data.html#konjo
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  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Yeah, it sounds good this way. In fact, you know they can try to tech it as in trying to reduce the damage, you can see the character is tossed in a different way due to trying, but it still dies. I have worded it differently because of that, but as it only makes it harder to understand it and it doesn't really matter the exact way the character moves after dying, I believe the way you have summarized it is fine.

    Something has just called my attention: I recall trying to use standing jab to catch on a retreating character would not help if they were retreating no matter what. However, Ryu's jab is sort of slow, at least for that task. Would not it help characters with very fast recovery on their normals such as gief's short or Dee Jay's strong, tough? This woulds mostly useless as Dee Jay has his slide and Gief has his lariats, but those moves have shorter recovery. Just wondering.

    Edit: Ryu's crouching roundhouse is missing its start-up boxes.

    Also, are you sure Ryu's fire hadouken has that stray offensive hitbox at the beginning? I tested it yesterday and obtained the same boxes as the ordinary (blue) version.

    Useless additions: when a round ends, the loser can still be hit. The winner, on the other hand, is completely invulnerable! How about loser hitboxes?

    Edit 2: I have just checked papasi's post below. Horrible. As a theory fighter website, a functionality where you select a character against another character and obtain the winner according to tier lists is an absolute must!!! It would simply make GGPO obsolete: you play immediately and do not have to through the hassle of actually entering inputs or dealing with lag.

    Edit3: about the post below: Guile's sobat, O.shotos sweep, Cammy's cr.forward. Fuck, yeah, dude! What now?
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,568
    They are not like that in SUPER TURBO. You have O.Ryu's close Short and Forward like this, but it should be like this.
    And N.Ken's far Short is incorrect.

    Yeah you need assume that I'm dumb and spell it out for me man. Now I know what you are talking about :)

    BTW, here is my newest toy

    http://golden-songs.com/ssf2st/theoryfighter.html

    It is not perfect because my jpegs are not knockout'ed by graphic professional like those in YBH
    However, it still does its job if you play with the opacity a bit.

    Basically just select two images from above (mouse over image => click add), then just drag and drop around and see how the red and blue boxes interact.

    See how it is possible to beat butt slam with sim's back MP (risky but possible)

    http://shoryuken.com/f223/sim-thread-119216/index10.html#post9505982

    80207341.png

    or ken's cr. jab to stop blanka's super

    35586967.png

    and i've seen ryu/ken beating a rising DP with jump fierce in video before, here's how

    67155155.png

    and how easy it is to beat butt slam with a wake up lariat

    34592998.png



    and question of the day is, what normal, on the ground move can beat rog's cr. mk clean?

    1_cr.jpg

    this sucker does that way too often and needs to be punished !! :tup:
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
    Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
  • CauldrathCauldrath Joined: Posts: 617
    Using your awesome new toy: (Unfortunately, since I'm ignoring the point close and far normals come out, this is making the assumption that these can be used at the correct range.)

    New Chun: cl. lp, cr. lp, st. mp, cr. lk, cr. mk, and possibly cl. mk and st. lk
    New Dhalsim: cl. cr. lp, cl. hp, cl. hk, st. lp
    New Ryu: cl. hp, cl. mk, cl. hk, cr. lp, cr. mp, cr. lk
    New Guile: cl. lp, cl. mp, cl. hp, cl. lk, cl. mk, st. lp, st. lk, st. mk, cr. lp, and possibly st. hk
    New Blanka: cl. lp, cl. mp, cl. hp, cl. lk, cl. mk, cl. hk, st. lp, st. hp, st. lk, st. hk, cr. lk

    EDIT: How about something more challenging, like Dee Jay's cr. mp:
    1_cr.jpg

    For the same characters:
    Chun: cr. lp
    Ryu: cr. mp
    Dhalsim: cl. cr. lp, st. lp
    Guile: cl. hp, cl./st. lk, st. mk, cr. lp
    Blanka: cl./st. lp, cl. mp, cl. mk, st. lk, and possibly cl. hp, cl./st. hk
    My blog where I try to break games: http://cauldrath.blogspot.com/
    My videos of me trying to break games: http://www.youtube.com/user/Cauldrath
  • MizukiMizuki ayy lmao Joined: Posts: 3,200
    This stuff is awesome, I'll take a look at all these things more later when I get a chance. Thanks for all the hard work guys.
    www.twitter.com/thenipahhut
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,568
    About Blanka. His jump forward HP. I used to believe it had two different hitboxes during it's animation. Am I wrong about that?

    just double check tonight. it has only one active hitbox like the one shown.
    They are not like that in SUPER TURBO. You have O.Ryu's close Short and Forward like this, but it should be like this. And N.Ken's far Short is incorrect.

    fixed
    Just to recap, you only have N.Ryu's Jab Shoryuken and N.Ken's Jab and Fierce Shoryuken.

    ok, i uploaded all the hitboxes that are different and ignore those that are the same.

    i eye balled this myself but let me know if i'm wrong

    o.ryu - all 3 versions of dp have same hitboxes
    o.ken - lp, mp version of dp have same hitboxes, hp version hit on frame 1

    n.ryu - lp version have smaller vulnerability box, mp & mp version are same
    n.ken - all 3 versions of dp have different hitboxes

    [edit:
    fixed ken's throw damage. thx osbr
    fixed n sagat image. thx ultra
    ]
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
    Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    I believe the lower boxes on Blanka's diagonal fierce have vanished somewhere from WW to S2, then. Or it was just an impression. I am having trouble getting CPS-1 games to work atm. I wanted to see when Honda was eventually harder to cross-up, but could not. In ST, he sort of jumps before getting on his toes, pushing his size box sort of high.

    Ken's ground and air rolling kick throws are listed as doing 1% damage, only.
  • ultracomboultracombo Weakest Loser Joined: Posts: 741
    You have tiger knee and Tiger uppercut mixed up in N.Sagat's hitbox display diagrams.
    "If ultracombo misses a low roundhouse, he is likely to continue doing it." - TheMuffinMan
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Other notes

    Ryu and Ken have extended vulnerable boxes on their aerial roundhouses during part of the start-up. Also, one may be led to believe the shotos cr.fwd is pretty vulnerable during start-up, but I believe there is only one frame they get that extended box before attacking.

    Sagat's high tiger has a frame which, apparently, has offensive projectile hitboxes but no defensive (that is, vanishing) ones. Does that mean he can "turn the tide" on a projectile war by perfectly timing that move?

    Ultra, I think he has just fixed that. It seems OK now.
  • fatboyfatboy I beat anorexia: 10-0 Joined: Posts: 1,853
    WOW..... this totally makes miss the hot days ST. :sad: What a great game!
    Am I hungry? Sure, I could eat...
  • ultracomboultracombo Weakest Loser Joined: Posts: 741
    Sagat's high tiger has a frame which, apparently, has offensive projectile hitboxes but no defensive (that is, vanishing) ones. Does that mean he can "turn the tide" on a projectile war by perfectly timing that move?

    It's best to do that with a low tiger, because a high tiger will usually neutralize a nearby projectile, since his arms are too high to be hit (this helps when you're getting pressured with fireballs off of a knockdown).
    "If ultracombo misses a low roundhouse, he is likely to continue doing it." - TheMuffinMan
  • TelMarineTelMarine Joined: Posts: 37
    this is too awesome papasi, thanks a bunch!
  • FulaaniFulaani Of terrorist descent Joined: Posts: 2,555
    I was always told that it was Hondas bear hug that has the most throw range, not his kneebash.
    zoning took an indefinite hiatus
  • Ryu1999Ryu1999 Keyboard Warrior Joined: Posts: 838
    Thanks so much for this toy. Its AWESOME. I guess this explains why O. Ryu can't jump back RH to stop Dictator Psycho Crusher like N. Ryu can. N. Ryu has a ridiculous hitbox on non-neutral J. Rh, lacking the vulnerable blue box towards the back that O. Ryu has. Otherwise all of O. Ryu's corresponding moves are the same or better across the board.

    Also, its kind of ridiculous how much better O. Hawk's normals are compared to N. Hawks (except for the added horizontal range on far St. RH)
    "orangemegaslide" (10:27:25 PM): dammit i need toilet paper, we're all out
    Me (10:27:36 PM): backed up to all get out?
    "orangemegaslide" (10:27:40 PM): so i'll shit then shower
    "orangemegaslide" (10:27:46 PM): then shave
    "orangemegaslide" (10:27:48 PM): brb in a bit
  • Coth_XCoth_X G(x) = (3/(1-3x)) - 3 - 3x - 27x^2 Joined: Posts: 4,340
    Awww, why'd they take that double psycho hand animation out from o.dic's devil reverse. That would have made an awesome win pose.
    "The purpose of proof is to understand, not to verify." - Arnold Ross
    http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/534416 <--- Coolest Game Ever!
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