Old/New Characters Hit Box Diagrams + Drag N Drop Theory Fighter

papasipapasi N Ken is the truthJoined: Posts: 1,556 ✭✭✭
If you still haven't learned about this, please go read about the awesome work done by FelineKI, Dammit, and MZK (thanks Xenozip for bringing the news)

http://shoryuken.com/f223/super-street-fighter-ii-turbo-house-97281/index148.html#post9429233

YBH is indispensable, but it doesn't contain hitbox diagrams for old characters.

Using this mamerr hack, I recorded videos for all the old characters and capture the individual frames to jpeg, and create the hitbox diagrams similar to those in YBH.

Super Street Fighter II Turbo - character Hitbox Diagrams

Here's a way to
Compare side by side
so you can contemplate what move beat what :) remember to share with us your finding though :tup:

It is a lot of work to capture the jpeg and typing up the stats.

[edit: I now use the frame data from Akiba's]

For stats, I mostly use the data found in YBH, so the attack and stats might not be all correct.
So I probably need you guys' help to correct the stats, etc.

[edit: newest addition]

Super Street Fighter II Turbo - Hitbox Theory Fighter

It is not perfect because my jpegs are not knockout'ed by graphic professional like those in YBH
However, it still does its job if you play with the opacity a bit.

Basically just select two images from above (mouse over image => click add), then just drag and drop around and see how the red and blue boxes interact.

See how it is possible to beat butt slam with sim's back MP (risky but possible)

http://shoryuken.com/f223/sim-thread-119216/index10.html#post9505982

80207341.png

or ken's cr. jab to stop blanka's super

35586967.png

and i've seen ryu/ken beating a rising DP with jump fierce in video before, here's how

67155155.png

and how easy it is to beat butt slam with a wake up lariat

34592998.png

Cheers
Post edited by papasi on
eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
«13

Comments

  • CronopioCronopio ST Joined: Posts: 1,270
    Good work. If you need a hand I could do some characters for you to ease the load.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,370 ✭✭✭
  • blitzfublitzfu Reversal Shoryuken Joined: Posts: 2,972 ✭✭✭
    Very nice papasi, if you need O.characters' frame data, don't forget to use Akiba's SSFII data translated by NKI. It's not exactly O.characters, but it's better than using just YBH I guess.

    Edit: IDK if you've got this planned in the future, but having the different strengths of Special Attacks would be good (eg Hawk's Jab DP), esp considering the invincibility and other frames can change depending on the strength.

    Everything is friggin great tho! Thanks for the hard work and effort.
  • VernonVernon destroy what destroys you Joined: Posts: 86
  • JizzonJizzon ...or Thenarus, whichever. Joined: Posts: 654
    Wow, excellent work! And you started with my two main characters, bonus ^^

    I've got a pretty good capture rig set up...I'm willing to grab HD stills of all the animations if someone else wants to do the exact counts. (I don't have near the storage to be doing 1080 uncompressed.)

    EDIT: That goes for anything on 360; I realize that many purists will prefer the original ST sprites, but I can do either the new or old HDR sprites in HD if there's interest. Your stuff looks really good though, so I won't hold my breath!

    EDIT2: Here's some info for your O.Chun section. Her far standing fierce is special cancellable. Her command forward, the flip kick, has 13 total active frames (5 startup, 5/4/4 hitting, 39 recovery); the first five can combo into the following four and are cancellable, and the last eight knock down. Since it's slightly faster on startup than the N.Chun version, it's also very practical to combo off of jump-ins (both hits of the move together do around 26 damage). ST O.Chun also has the ability to do both command forward and roundhouse up-close with both directly toward or away with the corresponding button press, which can allow you to do a few tricks like cancel into her fireball off her flip kick. (It's her one fundamental difference from SSFII Chun.) Her lightning leg kicks also have slightly different recovery properties. Lastly, her SBKs can knock down on the first hit (where she's doing a handspring during frames 14-17; the active hitbox N.Chun lacks), and I believe each version recovers six frames faster than her corresponding N. version. As blitzfu said, the translated T.Akiba site courtesy of NKI can help you fill in a lot of these gaps. Keep up the good work!
  • John Rambo.John Rambo. banned Joined: Posts: 185
  • CWheezyCWheezy Joined: Posts: 863
    Old balrog headbutt has the last 4-5 frames in the wrong order
  • geogeo Official Contrarian Joined: Posts: 1,291
    This is good stuff but I think there are diminishing returns beyond O.Ken, O.Ryu, and O.Hawk... right?
    Just one example of ST fundamentalism on dontblowthis.com: "HDR is just another game with no relation to the Street Fighter II series" - riz0ne
  • VirtuaFighterFourVirtuaFighterFour VirtuaFighter.com Joined: Posts: 1,572
    This is good stuff but I think there are diminishing returns beyond O.Ken, O.Ryu, and O.Hawk... right?
    No way. O.Sagat and O.Honda are better than their N.Counterparts and lots of other O.Characters are competitive. And we've seen the Japanese use O.Dictator and O.Blanka in SSFIIX this year. A complete list is useful as all O.Characters are certainly playable and fun.
    VF5:FS - Akira, Jean, Wolf, Taka
    VF4/EVO/FT - Wolf, Akira, Goh, Kage, Jacky
    ST - Dictator, Hawk, Boxer, Honda, O.Hawk, Sagat, Ken, O.Boxer, Claw
    3S - Q, Gouki, Ryu III
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,370 ✭✭✭
    I think O.Ryu and O.Ken are more about frame data (some normals are worse, projectiles are better), aerial roundhouse (better) and the aerial tatsus (better). Of course, everyone knows the SRKs are invincible. Far standing jab is better on the old versions as anti-air, but not much better. The hitbox is taller but I guess it does not get many uses.
  • RufusRufus An unexpected database error has occurred. Joined: Posts: 1,870
    EDIT2: Here's some info for your O.Chun section. Her far standing fierce is special cancellable.

    This suggests that the start-up is less than 6 frames.
    Hitboxes http://www.pedantic.org/~nate/HDR/
    "You don't know what you're talking about as much as I do." -- Unknown
  • geogeo Official Contrarian Joined: Posts: 1,291
    I forgot about O.Sagat (duh), but didn't know that O.Honda was better than N.
    Just one example of ST fundamentalism on dontblowthis.com: "HDR is just another game with no relation to the Street Fighter II series" - riz0ne
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,370 ✭✭✭
    He does not have oiicho, but those standing sweeps, OG standing fierce chop and standing jab cancellable into hands.
  • JizzonJizzon ...or Thenarus, whichever. Joined: Posts: 654
    I don't know about strictly "better," but O.Honda is definitely a solid character choice. He loses the command throw (ouch) and super (meh), but gains some great normals and a different way to pressure with his HHS.

    O.Chun is also a decent pick in a few matches, namely against the grapplers. Her rushdown game is weaker since every poke she throws goes high, but her priority is better in the air with neutral and diagonal forward. She loses her super and upkicks, but her SBKs can knock down and get her out of corners pretty well. She can cancel far standing fierce into a fireball, and her flip kick is actually useful (though that and her knee bash can only be used up-close). Speaking of O.Chun, how does her far standing fierce being cancellable suggest that the move's start-up is less than six frames, Rufus?

    I occasionally pick N.Hawk against loosely aggressive shotos almost entirely due to the longer range of his standing roundhouse ;) N.Sagat...the locals here love playing him for some reason, but does he have any advantage whatsoever over O.Sagat besides cross-up jumping forward and a few more normals he can cancel?

    papasi, do you plan on expanding your guide to include the N.character data in the same format? It would be amazing to have such a single comprehensive guide.
  • CronopioCronopio ST Joined: Posts: 1,270
    From what I've seen, there are no hitbox differences between O.Sagat and N.Sagat besides diagonal jumping MK and a smaller hittable area on his punches during a Tiger Shot.
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,556 ✭✭✭
    Red and yellow = hitting frames

    Can someone point out what is the difference between red & yellow frame from T Akiba's page?
    Blue = landing frames (the landing frames you can actually see)

    Does blue frame meant that after you land you are vulnerable to throw for x frames but you cannot throw your opponent?
    Green = see notes below data

    I might overlook but I still cannot find explanation for the green frame below the page.


    BTW, I appreciate you guy's help to correct the stats. Can you guys do one more favor and just use single form like

    O.Chun

    far-hp special-cancellable

    My eyes are already too tired to scan a blob of text and extract information out...
    papasi, do you plan on expanding your guide to include the N.character data in the same format? It would be amazing to have such a single comprehensive guide.

    In fact I do, but I really need help from you guys to crop the images. I have spent my long weekend working full time on this and several nights from the past week.

    What I want to do is to create a zip file of all the moves for each N char, and upload it to the web.
    If you guys have time, download the file, unzip and use a free program to crop the images.
    It took me around 35-40 minutes to process one character (cropping the images).

    Once we have all the characters up, I hope the side by side comparison can really help us to master the normals.

    Many times I see DGV does a standing jab to beat jump-in from the right distance and I'm always scratching my head wondering how did that work...


    I also plan to include throw range in each of the throw move and indicate what other throw moves it beat.

    I recall there is a page out there with that info. Can someone link me? Thanks.
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
    Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
  • RufusRufus An unexpected database error has occurred. Joined: Posts: 1,870
    Can someone point out what is the difference between red & yellow frame from T Akiba's page?

    IIRC it depends a little on the move, but, for example, Honda's crouching roundhouse hits behind him, and the yellow frames are the ones that do:
    http://www.pedantic.org/~nate/HDR/honda/crroundhouse.html


    BTW, I appreciate you guy's help to correct the stats. Can you guys do one more favor and just use single form like

    O.Chun

    far-hp special-cancellable
    All moves that hit on or before frame 6 are special cancelable.
    All moves that hit on or before frame 7 are super cancelable (I don't advise trying it in matches though.)
    AFAIK the only exception might be Fei Long, but probably not the old version.
    Many times I see DGV does a standing jab to beat jump-in from the right distance and I'm always scratching my head wondering how did that work...
    You're sure it's not standing strong? It's usually a better choice with Ryu.
    Hitboxes http://www.pedantic.org/~nate/HDR/
    "You don't know what you're talking about as much as I do." -- Unknown
  • CWheezyCWheezy Joined: Posts: 863
    I
    papasi, do you plan on expanding your guide to include the N.character data in the same format? It would be amazing to have such a single comprehensive guide.

    Doesn't rufus have them posted on his website? I don't think many normals were changed from super turbo to hd remix
  • blitzfublitzfu Reversal Shoryuken Joined: Posts: 2,972 ✭✭✭
    Can someone point out what is the difference between red & yellow frame from T Akiba's page?
    Yellow frames are for spinning attacks where the character has their back turned (eg Tatsu, Lariat). Usually that means the red hitbox is on the other side of the attacker.
    Blue = landing frames (the landing frames you can actually see)


    Does blue frame meant that after you land you are vulnerable to throw for x frames but you cannot throw your opponent?
    Yep.
    Green = see notes below data


    I might overlook but I still cannot find explanation for the green frame below the page.
    No idea what green frames are for. Which attacks have this?
    I also plan to include throw range in each of the throw move and indicate what other throw moves it beat. I recall there is a page out there with that info. Can someone link me? Thanks.
    Akiba's SF2 Misc Data

    Also BTW, doesn't O.Dee Jay have close Forward and close RH same as N.Dee Jay?

    Edit: Just verified that O.Dee Jay has the same close Forward and RH as N.Dee Jay in HDR Classic, same for O.Ryu's close Short, Forward and RH.

    I just realized how buff O.Ryu and O.Ken's sweep is, also O.Ryu's Air Tatsu is friggin crazy!! Good shit papasi. = J
  • FulaaniFulaani Of terrorist descent Joined: Posts: 2,555
    great stuff papasi!
    zoning took an indefinite hiatus
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,370 ✭✭✭
    About cancelling

    Folks, I suggest you check the ST OG x S2 characters thread. Highlights to nohoho's reply. Other "differences" due to the system explain why O.Ryu cr.short xx shakunetsu hadouken is a 2-hit combo in ST and not in S2, and aerial attack (any), cr.short xx (blue-only) hadouken is a 3-hit combo for O.Ryu in ST and not in S2.
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,556 ✭✭✭
    I just added throw range comparison to each of the characters (appended after the throw moves).

    It wasn't obvious to me before but sim's normal throws actually beat gief's. I always thought gief has the best normal throws. Also turns out thawk's normal throw ranges are terrible (only better than feilong).

    According to T Akiba, gief's lp, mp, hp spd all have the same ranges, but we used to believe that lp version has the best range.

    Also, I think I read on this forum that chun's mp > hp, ken's mp > mk & hp, sim's hp > mp, etc

    while on t akiba's table, except for balrog, all characters' normal throws have the same range.

    so what's the deal? who has the definitive answer?
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
    Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
  • FulaaniFulaani Of terrorist descent Joined: Posts: 2,555
    I remember testing it because of a comment from PSF (ggpo player) and coming to the conclusion that all of giefs SPDs have the same range. However I'm not a Gief player and maybe I was wrong.
    zoning took an indefinite hiatus
  • CWheezyCWheezy Joined: Posts: 863
    You could say gief has the best normal throws because he can throw from crouch.

    I believe e honda has farthest range normal throws, then someone, then blanka, and then the rest fairly close
  • geogeo Official Contrarian Joined: Posts: 1,291
    chart.gif
    Just one example of ST fundamentalism on dontblowthis.com: "HDR is just another game with no relation to the Street Fighter II series" - riz0ne
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,370 ✭✭✭
    Papasi, it would be interesting to differentiate between full and stumble knockdowns, when applicable. Say, sweeps, low punch rushes and such do stumble knockdowns, while flash kicks and O.Rogs straight rush do full ones.

    There is one extra information that the YBH does not provide, which is moves with two active parts that do not combo into the other on the same button press. Say, O.shotos close standing roundhouse first attack will combo into the same move when the second active section starts, assuming the enemy is in range. But far standing roundhouse and close standing fierce will not. Such info could contribute to make your website the best ever sf2 hitbox or attack in general source.

    Ryu's neutral jumping roundhouse has another set of hitboxes which was not included: it can hit before the leg is fully extended.

    You might want to add a "good luck" comment on Dhalsim's noggie drawing with running bear grab in terms of range!

    The size box is relevant in certain situations. It can show, on wake-up, why some characters are hard to cross-up for a combo (i.e. deep cross-ups) with aerial attacks that are not as good as Dee Jay's forward kick. Some of them are just tall, even on the ground, while some such as Honda have the size box far from the ground for some moments. But this can wait, I suppose, as there is a lot of shit to do and I am not willing to overwhelm you with suggestions.

    Edit: S2 Fei's hop forward kick is not an overhead.
    I just realized how buff O.Ryu and O.Ken's sweep is, also O.Ryu's Air Tatsu is friggin crazy!! Good shit papasi. = J
    Actually, they are the same as ST Ryu. But as you play shotos, it looks that N.Ryu is OK because the standing Ryu low hitbox does not cover the foot in the front. I had wondered the same thing, but then I checked normal Ryu and the cr.rh hitbox is just as good. If you can not sweep O.Ryu, he can't sweep you either.
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,556 ✭✭✭
    image...

    geo, your table looks very pretty. but it seems to only compare the best possible move (gief command throw spd vs ryu normal throws)

    t akiba's table breaks down all the possible throws in the game.

    i think sometime ago i came across your table somewhere on the internet, and come to believe that gief & thawk has the best normal throws (which i was mistaken, in term of range)

    so does anyone heard about chun, ken, sim's different normal throws have different range? i think that was mentioned many times but t akiba said otherwise.
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
    Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,556 ✭✭✭
    it would be interesting to differentiate between full and stumble knockdowns, when applicable. Say, sweeps, low punch rushes and such do stumble knockdowns, while flash kicks and O.Rogs straight rush do full ones.

    So is all normal knockdowns consider stumble knockdown and all special knockdowns are full knockdowns ?
    There is one extra information that the YBH does not provide, which is moves with two active parts that do not combo into the other on the same button press.
    Ryu's neutral jumping roundhouse has another set of hitboxes which was not included: it can hit before the leg is fully extended.

    Will change ryu's page with the above info later. If you have more about other moves, please share.
    The size box is relevant in certain situations.

    Good suggestion. I'll change all the standing and crouching images to include push boxes.
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
    Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
  • FulaaniFulaani Of terrorist descent Joined: Posts: 2,555
    this is turning out to be such a great resource! take your time papasi.
    zoning took an indefinite hiatus
  • geogeo Official Contrarian Joined: Posts: 1,291
    geo, your table looks very pretty. but it seems to only compare the best possible move (gief command throw spd vs ryu normal throws)

    t akiba's table breaks down all the possible throws in the game.

    i think sometime ago i came across your table somewhere on the internet, and come to believe that gief & thawk has the best normal throws (which i was mistaken, in term of range)

    so does anyone heard about chun, ken, sim's different normal throws have different range? i think that was mentioned many times but t akiba said otherwise.

    You seem upset?

    Yes, the table only illustrates the best throw/hold of each character (i.e. the move with the largest range).
    Just one example of ST fundamentalism on dontblowthis.com: "HDR is just another game with no relation to the Street Fighter II series" - riz0ne
  • philcitophilcito The Berserker Shoto Joined: Posts: 1,184
    this is awesome!, downloading.

    Thank you!
    "You hit coins at the same time as punch, just like philcito does". Bookah
    " I don't snore and I shower daily". Rekkaken

    The Crew - www.nohonorcrew.com/
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,556 ✭✭✭
    what do you mean? i said when i first saw that table long time ago, i was mistaken that those are comparing normal throws. not until yesterday i studied akiba's data and broke it down character by character did i found out i was so wrong for so long. that is all.
    You seem upset?

    i have no idea where that come from...
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
    Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
  • zaspacerzaspacer Joined: Posts: 553
    You seem upset?

    Yes, the table only illustrates the best throw/hold of each character (i.e. the move with the largest range).

    Well, for what it's worth, "best" in terms of throw/hold is very situational, relative to what you need. Range is not always the #1 criteria in a given situation.

    So having a "fuller" chart that breaks down each throw (including listing and placing both different and redundant button effect variations) gives a more comprehensive resource.
    streetfighterdojo.com - video library of top players
  • blitzfublitzfu Reversal Shoryuken Joined: Posts: 2,972 ✭✭✭
    Actually, they are the same as ST Ryu. But as you play shotos, it looks that N.Ryu is OK because the standing Ryu low hitbox does not cover the foot in the front. I had wondered the same thing, but then I checked normal Ryu and the cr.rh hitbox is just as good. If you can not sweep O.Ryu, he can't sweep you either.

    Actually, they're not the same. They have the same range but N.Ryu's sweep is more vulnerable due to the extended vulnerable box. Therefore O.Ryu and O.Ken's sweeps are more buff.

    ryusweep.pngryusweep.png
    ryusweep.png
  • geogeo Official Contrarian Joined: Posts: 1,291
    Well, for what it's worth, "best" in terms of throw/hold is very situational, relative to what you need. Range is not always the #1 criteria in a given situation.

    So having a "fuller" chart that breaks down each throw (including listing and placing both different and redundant button effect variations) gives a more comprehensive resource.

    Go ahead and make it.
    Just one example of ST fundamentalism on dontblowthis.com: "HDR is just another game with no relation to the Street Fighter II series" - riz0ne
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,370 ✭✭✭
    So is all normal knockdowns consider stumble knockdown and all special knockdowns are full knockdowns?
    Nope, not quite. Mainly, Rog's low rush is the exception about special attacks, and a few normals from Chun and N.Ryu's and N.dictator's juggle strongs are exception as normals. From the top of my head:
    • full knockdowns
      • Chun Li's command roundhouse (neckbreaker)
      • Chun Li's neutral jumping roundhouse (any active part)
      • Chun Li's command forward (POS version of the previous move)
      • juggle attacks when hitting airbone
      • most special attacks when hitting airbone
      • last part of tiger knee, cannon drill, spinning backfist, (O or N)Ken's strong and fierce SRKs, scissor kick, rekka punch (third one)*
      • SRKs, heandbutts, flash kicks, etc.
    • stumble knockdowns
      • Balrog's low punch rush
      • sweeps (most characters cr.rh, Honda's far standing kicks and cr.fierce, Dee Jay's cr.frw)
    Note that low rush will do a stumble knockdown regardless of hitting enemies who are on the ground or in the air.

    *I have probably missed something
    snip
    You are right, good catch. I hadn't noticed it.
  • mattyconmattycon o.Honda owns! Joined: Posts: 27
    Oh my god this is amazing! I'm going to print O. honda's page.
    Youtube channel (street fighter 2 -super turbo and 2' CE- matches) - www.youtube.com/user/matt1con
  • FulaaniFulaani Of terrorist descent Joined: Posts: 2,555
    About 2 years ago wen I started to play this game Valle gave me the tip to keep the stick in neutral instead of holding back. The reason was that your block animation makes your vulnerable hitbox wider.

    Can you confirm this?
    zoning took an indefinite hiatus
  • JizzonJizzon ...or Thenarus, whichever. Joined: Posts: 654
    I'll confirm it, though I don't have any video evidence at my disposal currently to demonstrate it. I notice it more on moves like Hawk's higher pokes over lower characters like Blanka, but it's definitely present.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,370 ✭✭✭
    I could not confirm it. Blanka's blocking hit-boxes are basically the same as his neutral ones. Most are. One exception is Balrog, who can avoid attacks by blocking. Crouching is known - and verified - to move hit-boxes forward quite a bit.

    Still, as you know, it is often a good idea not to block so as to be able to move freely after whiffed pokes or lariat/jab SRK spamming.

    I have noticed Ryu's fierce hadouken has a larger hitboxes for some period after the start-up and just before the recovery. While the projectile moves faster, it has a larger horizontal range for some time.
  • FulaaniFulaani Of terrorist descent Joined: Posts: 2,555
    he was speaking from a shoto standpoint. but chun can make crossup tatsus whiff by just holding neutral down cant she?
    zoning took an indefinite hiatus
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,370 ✭✭✭
    I see. Then he was not actually right: they do not change at all. She can, but (specially Ryu's) cross-up tatsus are always a risk. The only guaranteed way is timing it perfectly so that the leg always hits behind as the character lands, which is something I do not know how to do. By crouching, Chun also risks eating a roundhouse-fierce-hadouken combo, which would pretty much end the round, so against players who know the timing and distance for deep cross-ups that can be disastrous.
  • zaspacerzaspacer Joined: Posts: 553
    Go ahead and make it.

    Here are two great charts for throw paramaters:

    1) Throw Range for all throws
    T.Akiba's SF2 Data

    2) Throw Damage for all throws
    T.Akiba's SF2 Data

    I imagine most people here have seen them.

    It would also be great to have other data for throws:
    * dizzy meter boost
    * distance opponent is thrown
    * distance your character is moved away
    * your character recovery on throw
    * opponent character recovery on throw
    * actual throw range to-hit and get-hit boxes
    * etc.

    Taking the data from link #2, I implemented it into the following image:

    SSF2T%20Throw%20Damage.PNG

    I can work on a similar image for the 1st link (basically a comprehensive throw range chart). Though I am not sure using the measurements from NKI's site are the best number. (do they refer to distance from one character's centerpoint to the edge of the other character's "to-hit" throw hitbox?)

    I also can make bar charts showing a character vs. each other character in their throw distance advantages by degree.
    streetfighterdojo.com - video library of top players
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,370 ✭✭✭
    Great stuff, zaspacer. If you will accept a suggestion, it would be to add a space between the commas and the numbers for throws with more than one part. In Europe (UK aside) and South America, commas are used to separate the integer part from the fractional one, so it is hard to not read them as non-integer numbers at first glance. Say, Honda's grab looks like 24.4% damage.
  • geogeo Official Contrarian Joined: Posts: 1,291
    What use is this? I'm not being obstinate, I really don't know when I'd refer to this chart.
    Just one example of ST fundamentalism on dontblowthis.com: "HDR is just another game with no relation to the Street Fighter II series" - riz0ne
  • VirtuaFighterFourVirtuaFighterFour VirtuaFighter.com Joined: Posts: 1,572
    Don't forget that normal throws can be softened for half of the damage so you have to take that into account when you want to go for your highest damage throw. Secondly some "]holds allow[/URL] for canned followups or even set up for safe jumps into another throw or less safe throw loops. Holds can also do far more damage than normal throws (though hold can be struggled for zero damage it's very rare). Some throws have quick resets near the corner after a throw tech and you have stuff like Dictator's cross up slide after a throw tech. Remember that O.Characters cannot tech or soften throws, meaning you get more damage, plus [URL="" off of okizeme. There's lots more than raw immediate damage that you need to factor in when deciding what throw to use where and when.
    VF5:FS - Akira, Jean, Wolf, Taka
    VF4/EVO/FT - Wolf, Akira, Goh, Kage, Jacky
    ST - Dictator, Hawk, Boxer, Honda, O.Hawk, Sagat, Ken, O.Boxer, Claw
    3S - Q, Gouki, Ryu III
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,556 ✭✭✭
    About 2 years ago wen I started to play this game Valle gave me the tip to keep the stick in neutral instead of holding back. The reason was that your block animation makes your vulnerable hitbox wider.

    Can you confirm this?

    I just captured some images yesterday and this is wrong.

    Almost all the hitboxes are identical whether you're in block animation or in neutral position.

    The only cases I see differences for some characters are when the head is tilted (the tiny hixbox at the top), and that is negligible (it is tilted backward so it's better than neutral).

    I'll include both images later when I update the standing and couching section with pushboxes included.

    [edit: updated. seems like only boxer has a difference hit box when in block animation (leaning back)]
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
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  • FulaaniFulaani Of terrorist descent Joined: Posts: 2,555
    then perhaps I misunderstood his comment way back then. thanks for testing :)
    zoning took an indefinite hiatus
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,370 ✭✭✭
    Ditto on the quick resets in the corner: I must have been swept after a bite on the corner like a 1000 times, due to mashing in lag. There is also the Chun getting SPD'ed on the corner, and the "maybe it's a bad idea" at softening Fei's kick throw when cornered.
  • CauldrathCauldrath Joined: Posts: 617
    Maybe the chart would be more useful if it was sorted by throw range, then by damage, with the strongest throw at each given range highlighted? So, Zangief's would look like:

    Fierce SPD (highlighted)
    Strong SPD
    Jab SPD
    360+RH (close) (highlighted)
    360+RH (far)
    360+Short/Forward (far)
    360+Short/Forward (close)
    All the grabs
    FAB (highlighted with the super color)
    My blog where I try to break games: http://cauldrath.blogspot.com/
    My videos of me trying to break games: http://www.youtube.com/user/Cauldrath
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