Smokin' Sick Style! The Dante General Discussion Thread!

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  • Merkyl999xMerkyl999x Crazy X-23 Guy Joined: Posts: 2,210
    edited February 2014
    Something worth checking out in addition to the setups in that vid. Instead of going straight into revolver, with unibeam, you can actually catch a grapple and do one more shot loop and it gives you consistent spacing for the stinger follow-up. (Even into another grapple and shot loop if you're feeling like swagging a bit.)

    I don't think it worked with pb, but just some food for thought when looking at your bnbs.
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  • ClamperClamper Joined: Posts: 422
    Thanks for the answers, guys. I'll try these tips out but i'm not too worried since i run ZMC with Dante in the middle, and i usually want to save the bounces for Vergil. It was just in a solo Dante situation where i could maximize the meter gain. But if it's too hard i'll just stick with the reverb-hyper ending.
  • gilardogilardo Joined: Posts: 65
    How do I whiff cancel stand H into weasel shot? I'm trying as hard as I can to just st.h and b.H as fast as possible? Do I just have to keep practicing to make it faster or is there some kind of gimmick I can do to make this easier?
  • DatSpardaUserDatSpardaUser Joined: Posts: 2,214
    gilardo wrote: »
    How do I whiff cancel stand H into weasel shot? I'm trying as hard as I can to just st.h and b.H as fast as possible? Do I just have to keep practicing to make it faster or is there some kind of gimmick I can do to make this easier?

    Just pratice, its quite hard to do it in a consistent manner. Best tip I can give is try to double tap H at the end of s.H.
    I intended to put Gohan into the leading role. It didn’t work out. I felt that compared to Goku, he was ultimately not suited for the part.
  • GefenGefen Joined: Posts: 1,381
    It's not about doing the the 4H after the whiff H the fastest possible, there is some kind of timing (near the end of the attack)
    Never seen anyone relay on that consistently though..
  • forte95forte95 Buster Cannoneer Joined: Posts: 543
    edited February 2014
    Yeah it's the same thing with empty fireworks; it's not a mash input, it's just a single input with a small window. The window to cancel s :h: into weasel or reverb into fireworks is pretty big on hit/block, but it's tight on whiff. Mashing faster just gives you more inputs compressed in an interval of time, increasing the chance that an input registers during that window.
    I'm a physics enthusiast. Let's talk science.
  • Blue LightningBlue Lightning Portuguese Fighter Joined: Posts: 860
    It's not even 4 Hs, three will do. What I recently realised is that it's not about doing it as quick as possible, it has its own rhythm and it's actually a fairly slow one. Play around with it and you'll figure it out.
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  • TheCapeTheCape Joined: Posts: 944
    It's not even 4 Hs, three will do. What I recently realised is that it's not about doing it as quick as possible, it has its own rhythm and it's actually a fairly slow one. Play around with it and you'll figure it out.

    He meant 4H as in back+H (4 on a numpad). Ya goof :-p
    If its not fun, I will just stop playing it.
  • gilardogilardo Joined: Posts: 65
    Oh there's actual TIMING to it okay got it. This changes everything. In SF4 I could get a visual idea of when to press the button for links i.e. when the normal moves recover you should press the button.

    Any tips for "eyeballing" the window for whiff cancelling st.H into weasel?
  • GefenGefen Joined: Posts: 1,381
    TheCape wrote: »
    It's not even 4 Hs, three will do. What I recently realised is that it's not about doing it as quick as possible, it has its own rhythm and it's actually a fairly slow one. Play around with it and you'll figure it out.

    He meant 4H as in back+H (4 on a numpad). Ya goof :-p
    t.t yeah, my air dashers background gets the best of me sometimes.
  • Merkyl999xMerkyl999x Crazy X-23 Guy Joined: Posts: 2,210
    I will say that scat shot's window is much much much more lenient (visual cue is after the full swipe of the s.H) and and it confirms into stinger from absolute full screen minus 1 dash H. (plus you can use it to mixup with s.H+assistxxTeleport if people start trying to press buttons or up-back when they think you're about to teleport.)

    In neutral, I'll use scat shot if I'm out of point range and only use weasel shot when I actually hit them (since the hitstop on the normal connecting makes it trivial to link weasel shot in that situation.)
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  • Kaiten92Kaiten92 Well-Known Pervert Joined: Posts: 12,446
    It's not even 4 Hs, three will do. What I recently realised is that it's not about doing it as quick as possible, it has its own rhythm and it's actually a fairly slow one. Play around with it and you'll figure it out.

    It's actually 2 Hs but eh. Timing Weasel Shot just takes practice.

    As for raw Fireworks, I suggest doing what I did. Practice a motion that helps you figure out the timing. In my case, I found doing QCB+L then a slowish HCB+H is near perfect timing for fireworks on whiff. After that, I just memorized the timing of when I actually press H/how long I take to do the HCB. Now I can do raw fireworks without any counting or extra motions or inputs 4/5 times.

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  • All_luckysAll_luckys Joined: Posts: 116
    one tip that makes the H~ Weasel Shot cancel easier is making sure the stick is in neutral and then hitting 4 on the following h double taps I get more consistency out of it that way. As for fireworks my visual cue is just as he stops sliding forward it's a pretty insane happy birthday tool against people using assists in a predictable manner for approach. I don't like empty Weasels all that much it's not super practical the angle is great for grounded opponents but any one approaching from jump height can blow it up but it does have it's uses though but nothing as abuse-able as air play or empty fireworks. I like using it on blocked H's more to guard my assist calls like rapid slash and plasma beam that in turn cover my telport mix ups and I would really prefer my opponent's not to get crossed up by the stinger telport set up and eat all that scaling
  • jak d riprjak d ripr Joined: Posts: 7,353
    So what leads to your decision to use either air dash :h: or :m:? Does player position/character choice factor in? And how do you guys air dash :h: / :m: on characters with short hitboxes like morrigan? My shit keeps whiffing.
  • CriminalUpperCriminalUpper =D Joined: Posts: 2,956
    edited April 2014
    jak d ripr wrote: »
    So what leads to your decision to use either air dash :h: or :m:? Does player position/character choice factor in? And how do you guys air dash :h: / :m: on characters with short hitboxes like morrigan? My shit keeps whiffing.

    Decision would generally be, am I challenging someone in neutral or attempting a mixup/pressure on the ground? If the former, Air Dash j.H for the air throw OS and makes for a safer air-to-air option. j.M is faster and has a better crossup hitbox which also hits lower to the ground. Ideal for mixup situations after you've had someone block an assist whilst grounded

    In the Morrigan matchup you don't want to be box dashing against her on the ground. The AA opportunities are just way too free in her favor. If you do have an assist that can hit her crouching hurtbox then it becomes an option but that option is probably inferior to teleport anyway


    And for why I'm here: Anyone have any good post-Snap mixups against air dash and double jump characters? I can't really get anything meaty aside from Jam Session + Assist (Vajra in this case), and if they decide to block instead of air dashing the incoming mixup ends there

    Edit: This is for the corner btw. I know he does have some really good stuff midscreen, I have nothing when they are in the corner though
  • SilentleroySilentleroy Joined: Posts: 25
    Crouching characters or in cross up situations, I use j.M. I mostly use airdash H from a farther distance because you can get anti-air'd so easily from almost any crouching button, and it whiffs on characters sometimes. Also, j.M crosses up faster making it harder to react to. Post teleport, I'll use H exclusively for either falling or airdash.

    Airdash with j.H is LM~H + holding forward for the OS. j.M is LH~M. I don't really superjump instant airdash that much, so I can't comment on how worthwhile that is.
  • DatSpardaUserDatSpardaUser Joined: Posts: 2,214
    Crouching characters or in cross up situations, I use j.M. I mostly use airdash H from a farther distance because you can get anti-air'd so easily from almost any crouching button, and it whiffs on characters sometimes. Also, j.M crosses up faster making it harder to react to. Post teleport, I'll use H exclusively for either falling or airdash.

    Airdash with j.H is LM~H + holding forward for the OS. j.M is LH~M. I don't really superjump instant airdash that much, so I can't comment on how worthwhile that is.

    Superjump buttons have extra 5 frames of hit/blockstun, not to mention it reaches minimum air dash height a little faster.
    I intended to put Gohan into the leading role. It didn’t work out. I felt that compared to Goku, he was ultimately not suited for the part.
  • charlie88charlie88 Ya'll niggas gay. The Keving Gates kinda gay. Joined: Posts: 4,847
    I am finding that standing h's (guns standing)is pretty useful in neutral has anyone found a use for it other than zoning?
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  • DatSpardaUserDatSpardaUser Joined: Posts: 2,214
    edited April 2014
    charlie88 wrote: »
    I am finding that standing h's (guns standing)is pretty useful in neutral has anyone found a use for it other than zoning?

    Countering missiles if you don't have a beam. I'm really digging it against Mag/Missiles recently since the Prop Shredder cancel is surprisingly fast to catch Mags trying to attack you after you hit Doom.
    I intended to put Gohan into the leading role. It didn’t work out. I felt that compared to Goku, he was ultimately not suited for the part.
  • charlie88charlie88 Ya'll niggas gay. The Keving Gates kinda gay. Joined: Posts: 4,847
    I have tagged missiles a lot. And his guns beat 5 point low priority projectiles like soul fist.
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  • Merkyl999xMerkyl999x Crazy X-23 Guy Joined: Posts: 2,210
    And don't forget your stinger followup after scat shot. Full screen minus one dash H can convert scat shot into a full combo. It's still pretty hard to rely on too much, though. I was playing a match the other night and Hulk managed to get under scat shot...so...yeah...there's that.
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  • CriminalUpperCriminalUpper =D Joined: Posts: 2,956
    charlie88 wrote: »
    I am finding that standing h's (guns standing)is pretty useful in neutral has anyone found a use for it other than zoning?

    Nah they are pretty ass. Can be ducked by most of the cast. Slow startup due to requiring s.H to come out first. Only cancellable into Prop or Stinger. Prop is lol because it's death on block. Stinger a little more useful if you're punishing something not enough to justify using it. Maybe you could do like some ghetto assist punish with Scat Shot xx THC to look badass (I'm actually gonna attempt this in tournament now if I get the opportunity), but yeah it's just a massively inferior Weasel Shot
  • HououinHououin Joined: Posts: 208
    Sup guys, i'm having a few really big problems with dante.

    Everyone I play tells me I'm really linear. I play the same way every time, and they say I don't play dante like Dante, I should be playing wolverine. Which is kinda weird because I mostly play defensive.

    I'm having a lot of trouble implementing footsies into my gameplay, as well as just general fundamentals.

    Can anyone help, or just kick my ass a bunch? Thanks
  • GefenGefen Joined: Posts: 1,381
    @Hououin‌ Some footage would be really helpful to see what's the problem.

    Other than that, try to watch some other Dante players video. And in every situation try to ask yourself, what YOU would have done there, and then see what they did.

    I found that way that in many situation my answer was "I would Stinger there" and usually get blown by jumps over it, while other players didn't take those baits. Other habit I found that way is using falling j.HS airplay after teleport instead of my hammer.

    Try this, you can also try to watch your own matches, and check to see how predictable are you to yourself. (if it makes any sense)
  • charlie88charlie88 Ya'll niggas gay. The Keving Gates kinda gay. Joined: Posts: 4,847
    Guns to get them to duck, plus assist call teleport mixup shenanigans?
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  • theDudetheDude Joined: Posts: 11
    What are some of Dante's more consistent get off me tactics aside from let's say the obvious hammer (which gets beat out/baited a fair amount of times by anyone with matchup experience).

    I ask because people often close the distance even while im trying to maintain it and for me in some matchups (wolvie, nova, vergil, even Doom) once that distance is gone it's hard to establish anything/get a breather and you just eat buttons or grabs.
  • Merkyl999xMerkyl999x Crazy X-23 Guy Joined: Posts: 2,210
    edited May 2014
    The sad truth is that Dante really doesn't have a good option for that. Just gotta get a good pushblock to get back to proper spacing. That's the main reason I play him with an alpha counter, honesty. Smart players that are good at beating pushblock are just going to maul you if you don't have a good read or some kind of assist to get you out of the situation.

    Keep in mind that if they're dashing back in after your pushblocks, you win that situation by not pushblocking and c.L when they dash. (If they read you not pushblocking they win with frametrap or throw, though...so...fighting games.) Also, make sure you're always OSing a throw into your pushblocks (H~M) just to give you some extra coverage. If they're trying to set up a tick throw, you'll get a throw/tech chance. Again, if they space right, you're getting frame trapped for pressing a button...better than nothing, though.

    Edits:WTF Phone...You had one job...
    Post edited by Merkyl999x on
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  • Kanta-KunKanta-Kun Magnudisto... BLAAAAAAAST Joined: Posts: 5,545
    ^bad case of the auto-corrects. But yeah, pushblock and st.L afterwards to get some space. Twister is also good, but unsafe.
    "I think the game should punch you in the face every time you pick Nova." -ShadyK
  • charlie88charlie88 Ya'll niggas gay. The Keving Gates kinda gay. Joined: Posts: 4,847
    edited May 2014
    Weasel shot is your best safe best for space. Other than that devil trigger or an assist.
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  • DatSpardaUserDatSpardaUser Joined: Posts: 2,214
    Snapback. Use and abuse.
    I intended to put Gohan into the leading role. It didn’t work out. I felt that compared to Goku, he was ultimately not suited for the part.
  • GomuGomuGomuGomu Strider Sucks Joined: Posts: 9,431
    Reverb Shock and Jam Session.

    Risky but sometimes you gotta take risks.
    PSN: xXGomuGomuXx
  • theDudetheDude Joined: Posts: 11
    I see, thx guys ill be sure to try your suggestions. As for snapback, it's one of my favorite tools especially against anchors into xfactor + death.
  • Kanta-KunKanta-Kun Magnudisto... BLAAAAAAAST Joined: Posts: 5,545
    Kanta-Kun wrote: »
    Just gotta make sure you dash right after airplay [midscreen], to avoid the screen progression getting out of hand. otherwise [the dummy] will just go too far away.

    PS.: Fuck Vergil.

    ____
    EDIT: Also, some character specific stuff about the infinite:
    Midscreen version doesn't work on Zero, Joe, RR, Arthur, Firebrand, Strider, Wolverine, Hulk, Haggar, Ghost Rider because they're either too small, too floaty and/or push you away too far.
    Corner infinite is way harder on Joe because he's so small. it's possible though. Same for Rocket Raccoon, but even harder. Also Wolverine, kind of.

    Bolded the relevant issues.

    SIDE tac > dash crosses under Sentinel, Nemesis, Tron, Amaterasu, Shuma so you don't need to corner carry them all the way to the other side. Make sure to jump forward on your first jump to get them closer to the corner immediately, otherwise you'll drop some characters.
    One more thing to add. Down TAC midscreen, you can do

    [TAChit] Air hike forward > j.M (wait) xx Airplay > falling j.L

    For a side switch. Otherwise the setup is kinda hard.
    "I think the game should punch you in the face every time you pick Nova." -ShadyK
  • <Insert Name Here><Insert Name Here> No wonder with people like me SRK Marvel is dead Joined: Posts: 7,937
    Any thoughts on Dante/Missiles, especially in neutral? Usually I play my MODOK team with Plasma Beam but I feel like I need to at least try out MODOK/Missiles. Since I also want to stick with Doom/Dante, I'm going to have to deal with playing Dante/Missiles at some point.
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  • hypersonichypersonic Joined: Posts: 192
    edited June 2014
    Dante/Missiles is good,but Dante/Plasma is better in general.If you are using missiles with Dante try calling Doom when you are mid or close to your opponent and you are on the offense.Calling Doom fullscreen is a bad idea against characters with beam hypers or beam DHC in the back,since Dante won't be able to protect him with his slow projectiles.
    Also try calling missiles when opponent is in air or flying.
    If they are blocking missiles you can go for a teleport,drive teleport,empty reverb shockxxfireworks,hystericxxDevil Trigger,etc
    I would say that the choice between missiles and plasma would depend on the team you're facing and the other assist you are using.If you have a beam assist with missiles the team feels more complete in neutral.For example you can countercall jam session,missiles,drones with your beam assist and vajra with missiles.Also try calling missiles when opponent's beam assist is in cooldown.
  • <Insert Name Here><Insert Name Here> No wonder with people like me SRK Marvel is dead Joined: Posts: 7,937
    Yeah I get that Dante/Plasma is better, but the focus here is on MODOK and MODOK loves missiles, so I figured that if I was playing MODOK/Doom/Dante with Missiles I'd have to play Dante/Missiles at some point. I was advised to switch between Missiles and Plasma in the MODOK forum, too.

    Thanks for the info!
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  • KaoriKaori Would you like a demonstration? Joined: Posts: 1,172
    I just watched a tutorial on doing the teleport after prop shredder and was wondering if there is timing involved because when I do down up down S I keep getting helmet breaker instead of the teleport. Thanks guys!
  • forte95forte95 Buster Cannoneer Joined: Posts: 543
    Do down down up+S instead, press up and S at the same time. The timing is exactly the same as the timing for a prop sjc; the moment prop shredder finishes is the moment you press up+S
    I'm a physics enthusiast. Let's talk science.
  • DextroDextro Joined: Posts: 75
    i think i already asked this, but what should you be doing with dante in neutral( when backed up by disruptor)
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  • Merkyl999xMerkyl999x Crazy X-23 Guy Joined: Posts: 2,210
    edited August 2014
    Here's my typical bag of tricks.

    -- Stinger+EMDxxTeleport for punishes/whenever you feel like it (old faithful.)
    -- Close range: s.H + EMD xx teleport (da gawd.)
    -- Far Range: s.H + EMD xx Teleport // grapple // Scat shotxxStinger (safer than grapple, have to be within ~3/4ths screen to connect with stinger, though.)
    -- IAD j.H, land, dash HxxWeasel Shot (2 shots), land, EMD + Teleport
    (1/2 screen+ of space)j.air play + EMD (protects the followup options), land:
    --drive xx teleport(if they stayed grounded)//crystal(if they normal jumped at you)//acid rain(if they super jumped towards you)//hysteric(neutral jump/super jump)
    --Multilock. Either release and use for immediate teleport mixup or hold and TK release > teleport attempt > land s.H+EMDxxteleport 2nd mixup. (Be sure to keep in mind that you can press buttons while charging Multilock for those rare times you can gimmick someone into a hit.)
    ---- If they block most of these you usually get a free weasel shot followup mixup. (Use this to buy EMD some time, if it's available, I would just go for the s.HxxTeleport option.)


    I've been messing around with IAD + EMD j.H, land, immediately IAD j.H again for crossup/throw attempts. Seems like it could be a nice option to cover dash pressure.


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  • forte95forte95 Buster Cannoneer Joined: Posts: 543
    kinda depends on matchup

    against ppl like Doom or shit you want to go completely ham with EMD mixups so you go for air play + EMD or drive + EMD into teleports to get in if you get pushed out too far

    against rushdown you want to push them away with crystal and air play + disruptor calls and get out hysteric if they get caught by EMD so they can't call beam assist, if they get too close anti air M into EMD + teleport mixup for a bit then just chain into reverb xx fireworks or crystal if they block everything so you go back to your normal game plan
    I'm a physics enthusiast. Let's talk science.
  • Merkyl999xMerkyl999x Crazy X-23 Guy Joined: Posts: 2,210
    I've been trying to get away from overusing Reverb ShockxxFireworks. Way too many times where a weird anti-air turns me around when I don't expect it to or the fun rare times that fireworks doesn't come out for you.

    I think Crystal is the smart choice for ground > air blockstrings and drive is the better choice for grounded blockstrings.
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  • forte95forte95 Buster Cannoneer Joined: Posts: 543
    edited August 2014
    I see

    I use reverb xx fireworks for ground strings only so I don't get random cross unders, but yeah Drive may be better anyway because it's easier to followup blockstrings with it

    Yes crystal is best for antiair blockstrings

    EDIT: also forgot, reverb xx fireworks is good when you want space tho because it leaves you a little over max cM range iirc
    I'm a physics enthusiast. Let's talk science.
  • jak d riprjak d ripr Joined: Posts: 7,353
    So I'm curious, what should I be doing with Dante in neutral when backed by Tatsu? I played a couple sets a few days ago and realized st. :h: + :a2: isn't an actual mix-up. My friend blocked it every time so I asked him to just hold back and we realized it never crossed up. Then I tried stinger + tatsu and same shit, so I don't really know what to do. Is my timing wrong? Should I be using st. :m: instead(although I think I tried st. :m:). Or is tatsu just not a good assist for Dante? The team I'm trying to play is spencer/dante/akuma.
  • Merkyl999xMerkyl999x Crazy X-23 Guy Joined: Posts: 2,210
    Go watch sumbrownkids matches. I'm pretty sure his goto is s.m + tatsu. Hands down the best Dante tatsu player I've seen.
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  • jak d riprjak d ripr Joined: Posts: 7,353
    edited September 2014
    Merkyl999x wrote: »
    Go watch sumbrownkids matches. I'm pretty sure his goto is s.m + tatsu. Hands down the best Dante tatsu player I've seen.

    Yea I was combing through some of his footage and it seems like he uses st. :m: instead of :h:. I'll try that out and see what happens and watch a couple more of his vids to find some more shenanigans.

    EDIT: So I tested out st. :m: and it still doesn't work. At this point I'm literally stumped, I have no idea how to develop a mix-up using tatsu.
    Post edited by jak d ripr on
  • charlie88charlie88 Ya'll niggas gay. The Keving Gates kinda gay. Joined: Posts: 4,847
    Your timing is either off, or your range is affecting your timing.

    As far as neutral playing footises with air play stinger stand m and calling tatsu from midrange to stuff or setup a confirm. I usually throw it out to push them in the corner and allow me to close distance
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  • jak d riprjak d ripr Joined: Posts: 7,353
    edited September 2014
    charlie88 wrote: »
    Your timing is either off, or your range is affecting your timing.

    As far as neutral playing footises with air play stinger stand m and calling tatsu from midrange to stuff or setup a confirm. I usually throw it out to push them in the corner and allow me to close distance

    Ok, ill practice a different timing and try out some different ranges to see if I can make a mix-up out of it. Thanks for the feedback. Just so we're clear though, it's st. :m: you use right? Not st. :h:?

    However, if I could just ask your honest opinion, what assist do you feel is better for Dante? Tatsu or plasma beam?
    Post edited by jak d ripr on
  • Merkyl999xMerkyl999x Crazy X-23 Guy Joined: Posts: 2,210
    I think the overall Doom+Dante pairing is better than Dante/Akuma. I think Tatsu is a slightly better assist than doom because of its speed and nullification properties but the range is definitely a limiting factor.

    In general I think it comes down more to what your 3rd character needs/offers. SBK makes it work because Wolvie with JS and Tatsu is possibly one of the best point Wolverine teams in the game. If your point like PB better than Tatsu and you're comfortable with either the hard tags or putting Doom 2nd necessary to abuse the Doom/Dante THC ender then I would say that Doom's probably the better option.

    Mostly it boils down to what you want to play. Neither of them are bad choices. SBK is a top 5 Dante player using Tatsu so it's definitely not a bad assist.

    As far as the issues you're having with the setup, it might be a spacing problem. I think you can hit with the tip of s./cr.M+Tatsu xx teleport and get a true mixup. If you're right on them (the range where dante should press any buttons and definitely shouldn't call an assist) I think it's too fast and autoblocks.
    UMvC3: Magneto(EMD)/ X-23(CS)/Dante(JS)
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  • jak d riprjak d ripr Joined: Posts: 7,353
    Yea I'm just not a fan of teams that aren't built in the order that they will be played, plus I finally figured out how to get a teleport mix-up with tatsu. So I think I'm going to go with Akuma. I'm gonna miss those raw tag combos with doom, but I think this is the right decision.

    Thanks a lot for the help though, I don't think I'd have figured it out without you guys assistance.
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