Smokin' Sick Style! The Dante General Discussion Thread!

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  • sjohnst2sjohnst2 Joined: Posts: 1,496
    pressing L+H with dante gets you his Light attack instead of H when crouching. Doesn't work like that with other characters that I know of.

    Maybe good for mashing pushblock if you think they are button baiting you. but I can't think of a good use that a plink H~M Throw option select won't do for you instead.
  • DatSpardaUserDatSpardaUser Joined: Posts: 2,556
    Little late to the party, but you fra can poke hulk for free and and cancel damn near everything into DT and be safe. The post flash start up seems to be 9 frames, since Vergil's DT is 2 frames slower then Dante and he always gets hit by the Gamma Crush.
    I intended to put Gohan into the leading role. It didn’t work out. I felt that compared to Goku, he was ultimately not suited for the part.
  • charlie88charlie88 Ya'll niggas gay. The Keving Gates kinda gay. Joined: Posts: 5,113
    edited January 2014
    The timing is hard for me I try to delay and still get bopped. I get it maybe once every 30 attempts.

    Also I don't want to be in a position to where I have to cancel into devil trigger with Dante especially since I am not building meter and its disadvantages for my team. Even if Dante in DT beats hulk free.
    FC:1864 9258 8415
    PSN: Death_Loner_Kage
    Umvc3: Learning Viper...plays tron strange dante strider

    I am willing to play trade and embrace the suck
  • Merkyl999xMerkyl999x Crazy X-23 Guy Joined: Posts: 2,210
    Quick question for any Mags/Dante players. Anyone know off hand if it's possible to hard tag from Mags > Dante and still be able to TAC back to Magneto's infinite?

    I'm back playing Dante/X23/Magneto (various orders) and being able to hard tag > TAC would let me play a really strong point mags variation.

    For anyone that's been looking at the Dante/X23 pairings, X23 has a reliable non-xf solo dirt nap followup that lets you play with Magneto and still be able to run the 1 touch > 1 tac > double dirt nap and be able to double dirt nap through everyone except for the 4 characters in the 1.2+ mil health range and phoenix (kill meterless, while gaining a meter to dirt nap their anchor also.)

    It's pretty much Dante/Wesker/Mags with a 300% kill option. Def. worth messing around with if that's your cup of tea.
    UMvC3: Magneto(EMD)/ X-23(CS)/Dante(JS)
    300%, Welcome to America.
    R.I.P. Iron Man/Rocket Raccoon
  • DatSpardaUserDatSpardaUser Joined: Posts: 2,556
    Merkyl999x wrote: »
    Quick question for any Mags/Dante players. Anyone know off hand if it's possible to hard tag from Mags > Dante and still be able to TAC back to Magneto's infinite?

    I'm back playing Dante/X23/Magneto (various orders) and being able to hard tag > TAC would let me play a really strong point mags variation.

    For anyone that's been looking at the Dante/X23 pairings, X23 has a reliable non-xf solo dirt nap followup that lets you play with Magneto and still be able to run the 1 touch > 1 tac > double dirt nap and be able to double dirt nap through everyone except for the 4 characters in the 1.2+ mil health range and phoenix (kill meterless, while gaining a meter to dirt nap their anchor also.)

    It's pretty much Dante/Wesker/Mags with a 300% kill option. Def. worth messing around with if that's your cup of tea.

    Since you are going for the infinite you shoukd use DT. As long as S, sj.H xx Thunderbolt works you can TAC to Mag. Just check your combos to see how long you can go before it no longer works.
    I intended to put Gohan into the leading role. It didn’t work out. I felt that compared to Goku, he was ultimately not suited for the part.
  • GefenGefen Joined: Posts: 1,381
    Does it harder to plink dash with Dante compared to other characters?
    it seems to come to me quite naturally with Ryu or GR but not with him
  • kinetic-1kinetic-1 Joined: Posts: 464
    It is harder with him. It's not just you. It's better to wave dash with Dante
  • GefenGefen Joined: Posts: 1,381
    Thank god, I felt like an idiot...

    Any list of how hard it is per character?

  • Merkyl999xMerkyl999x Crazy X-23 Guy Joined: Posts: 2,210
    I haven't had any major issues plinking with Dante (though I do use the schmidt select L+M+H option for it.)

    That said, I normally only plink backwards. The only time I plink forward is to wave plink for dash up grabs.
    UMvC3: Magneto(EMD)/ X-23(CS)/Dante(JS)
    300%, Welcome to America.
    R.I.P. Iron Man/Rocket Raccoon
  • charlie88charlie88 Ya'll niggas gay. The Keving Gates kinda gay. Joined: Posts: 5,113
    I Plink backwards because its easier if I plink forward its only for positioning purposes and I only move like 2 plinks forward at MOST. Anything outside of that typically becomes random.
    FC:1864 9258 8415
    PSN: Death_Loner_Kage
    Umvc3: Learning Viper...plays tron strange dante strider

    I am willing to play trade and embrace the suck
  • SlippazSlippaz Juuuust meat! Joined: Posts: 515
    So I have a question for any engine experts who might be here...Can someone explain why Dante's plinked bold cancels work? The more I think about it, the less sense it makes...

    So say plinks in Marvel generally option select something which is canceled into a multi-button input--say H~M for OS throw/dash, where H is active for 1 frame and then is "joined" to M and "becomes" H+M. Makes sense. Dashes take priority, and input leniency allows priority linking between H/H+M.

    Look at Dante's bold cancel Crystal: Stinger, qcf.S~M. Ok so, we have Stinger first and then the game registers the directional input followed by S...one frame later it registers S+M. How the hell does that give me Crystal? There is no singular M input anywhere in this series...

    If the plink input were reversed, then we could say, "yeah there's something weird going on with the buffer here," and speculate about M~S working because for some reason, even though the M comes before Bold Move (M+S), it's taking priority because it's still in the buffer...it'd be flimsy, but it'd be something I guess?

    But for Dante's plinks, your desired button input is always last. From what I know about plinks this is not how they're supposed to work...the game seems to be taking "input leniency" and making up a totally new mechanic around it.

    Hopefully I'm just overthinking it and someone can explain it for me.
    UMvC3 Teams: Mag/Dante/Frank & Nova/Frank/Dante
  • Merkyl999xMerkyl999x Crazy X-23 Guy Joined: Posts: 2,210
    I've always just assumed it a weird state tied to the huge stinger buffer window that buffers into a frame 1 grounded pre-jump. The system takes a look at all of the buffered inputs and then just tries to make sense of it. QCF S isn't allowed after stinger but S+M works, then it looks at QCF M as a possibility and says why not, even though it's already used the M. Pretty stupid, overall.

    Normally there's plinking/two-button input priority goes to the highest button in the L>M>H order. Not sure if they care about S (maybe it's S>L>M>H), which would make sense in this situation since it reads the S~M as a single command but then takes the M as priority on the command.

    The buffer system is pretty dumb at times, X23 can do 623L6L and the buffer will read that as 623Lxx236L even though it's used half the inputs already. (Not complaining since that makes her DP loops laughably easy compared to manually entering it in, which usually takes TK motions on top of back to back to back QCB>DP>QCF motions.)
    UMvC3: Magneto(EMD)/ X-23(CS)/Dante(JS)
    300%, Welcome to America.
    R.I.P. Iron Man/Rocket Raccoon
  • SlippazSlippaz Juuuust meat! Joined: Posts: 515
    Merkyl999x wrote: »
    I've always just assumed it a weird state tied to the huge stinger buffer window that buffers into a frame 1 grounded pre-jump. The system takes a look at all of the buffered inputs and then just tries to make sense of it. QCF S isn't allowed after stinger but S+M works, then it looks at QCF M as a possibility and says why not, even though it's already used the M. Pretty stupid, overall.

    Yeah this is pretty much what Duck Strong suggested elsewhere...that what's going on is simply that whatever you input second is being used more than once. It must be the case I guess, but it's pretty strange lol. Thanks man.
    UMvC3 Teams: Mag/Dante/Frank & Nova/Frank/Dante
  • charlie88charlie88 Ya'll niggas gay. The Keving Gates kinda gay. Joined: Posts: 5,113
    I gave up on trying to understand the engine. It makes no sense at times. I let other people post engine stuff and just apply it to characters I play if its applicable.
    FC:1864 9258 8415
    PSN: Death_Loner_Kage
    Umvc3: Learning Viper...plays tron strange dante strider

    I am willing to play trade and embrace the suck
  • Merkyl999xMerkyl999x Crazy X-23 Guy Joined: Posts: 2,210
    It may be as simple as the game having leniency since the two buttons weren't pressed at the same time so it just gives you all three possibilities. Don't know if Dante gets a little extra because of some stuff around bold move. The game 100% doesn't have any issue using buffered inputs multiple times.
    UMvC3: Magneto(EMD)/ X-23(CS)/Dante(JS)
    300%, Welcome to America.
    R.I.P. Iron Man/Rocket Raccoon
  • ClamperClamper Joined: Posts: 422
    Hi guys, just started playing Dante. Anyone got tips about how to time the stinger after doing the clay pidgeon loop? I manage to hit it sometimes but not consistently.
  • GefenGefen Joined: Posts: 1,381
    Welcome to the reason almost no Dante does it ^^
    All in all it's character dependent, I actually have never seen highly competitive Dante player using it. (Yipes, GreenAce, all those ZeroMayCry etc....)

    So, don't bother with it.
  • charlie88charlie88 Ya'll niggas gay. The Keving Gates kinda gay. Joined: Posts: 5,113
    I find it most consistent to do 2 of the shot loops normally then do a launcher hit H one time then go into stinger. Thats what works most consistently with me.
    FC:1864 9258 8415
    PSN: Death_Loner_Kage
    Umvc3: Learning Viper...plays tron strange dante strider

    I am willing to play trade and embrace the suck
  • forte95forte95 Buster Cannoneer Joined: Posts: 546
    The most consistent for me is do 3 reps of the shot loop, then launch > 3 bullets then stinger when they start falling.
    I'm a physics enthusiast. Let's talk science.
  • GefenGefen Joined: Posts: 1,381
    If you don't get around 4 reps, it doesn't really worth it damage or meter wise. (Sure you still get your style point)

  • Merkyl999xMerkyl999x Crazy X-23 Guy Joined: Posts: 2,210
    edited February 2014
    Something worth checking out in addition to the setups in that vid. Instead of going straight into revolver, with unibeam, you can actually catch a grapple and do one more shot loop and it gives you consistent spacing for the stinger follow-up. (Even into another grapple and shot loop if you're feeling like swagging a bit.)

    I don't think it worked with pb, but just some food for thought when looking at your bnbs.
    UMvC3: Magneto(EMD)/ X-23(CS)/Dante(JS)
    300%, Welcome to America.
    R.I.P. Iron Man/Rocket Raccoon
  • ClamperClamper Joined: Posts: 422
    Thanks for the answers, guys. I'll try these tips out but i'm not too worried since i run ZMC with Dante in the middle, and i usually want to save the bounces for Vergil. It was just in a solo Dante situation where i could maximize the meter gain. But if it's too hard i'll just stick with the reverb-hyper ending.
  • gilardogilardo Joined: Posts: 65
    How do I whiff cancel stand H into weasel shot? I'm trying as hard as I can to just st.h and b.H as fast as possible? Do I just have to keep practicing to make it faster or is there some kind of gimmick I can do to make this easier?
  • DatSpardaUserDatSpardaUser Joined: Posts: 2,556
    gilardo wrote: »
    How do I whiff cancel stand H into weasel shot? I'm trying as hard as I can to just st.h and b.H as fast as possible? Do I just have to keep practicing to make it faster or is there some kind of gimmick I can do to make this easier?

    Just pratice, its quite hard to do it in a consistent manner. Best tip I can give is try to double tap H at the end of s.H.
    I intended to put Gohan into the leading role. It didn’t work out. I felt that compared to Goku, he was ultimately not suited for the part.
  • GefenGefen Joined: Posts: 1,381
    It's not about doing the the 4H after the whiff H the fastest possible, there is some kind of timing (near the end of the attack)
    Never seen anyone relay on that consistently though..
  • forte95forte95 Buster Cannoneer Joined: Posts: 546
    edited February 2014
    Yeah it's the same thing with empty fireworks; it's not a mash input, it's just a single input with a small window. The window to cancel s :h: into weasel or reverb into fireworks is pretty big on hit/block, but it's tight on whiff. Mashing faster just gives you more inputs compressed in an interval of time, increasing the chance that an input registers during that window.
    I'm a physics enthusiast. Let's talk science.
  • Blue LightningBlue Lightning Portuguese Fighter Joined: Posts: 860
    It's not even 4 Hs, three will do. What I recently realised is that it's not about doing it as quick as possible, it has its own rhythm and it's actually a fairly slow one. Play around with it and you'll figure it out.
    SF5: Raaashiiiidoooooooo; Tier-whore: Chun-li
    UMvC3: Main: Nova/Doctor Doom/Amaterasu; Former Team: Nova/Frank West/Amaterasu; Casual/Dream Team: Magneto/Dante/Frank and Doctor Doom/Dante/Frank
    PSN ID: BLightning91
  • TheCapeTheCape Joined: Posts: 944
    It's not even 4 Hs, three will do. What I recently realised is that it's not about doing it as quick as possible, it has its own rhythm and it's actually a fairly slow one. Play around with it and you'll figure it out.

    He meant 4H as in back+H (4 on a numpad). Ya goof :-p
    If its not fun, I will just stop playing it.
  • gilardogilardo Joined: Posts: 65
    Oh there's actual TIMING to it okay got it. This changes everything. In SF4 I could get a visual idea of when to press the button for links i.e. when the normal moves recover you should press the button.

    Any tips for "eyeballing" the window for whiff cancelling st.H into weasel?
  • GefenGefen Joined: Posts: 1,381
    TheCape wrote: »
    It's not even 4 Hs, three will do. What I recently realised is that it's not about doing it as quick as possible, it has its own rhythm and it's actually a fairly slow one. Play around with it and you'll figure it out.

    He meant 4H as in back+H (4 on a numpad). Ya goof :-p
    t.t yeah, my air dashers background gets the best of me sometimes.
  • Merkyl999xMerkyl999x Crazy X-23 Guy Joined: Posts: 2,210
    I will say that scat shot's window is much much much more lenient (visual cue is after the full swipe of the s.H) and and it confirms into stinger from absolute full screen minus 1 dash H. (plus you can use it to mixup with s.H+assistxxTeleport if people start trying to press buttons or up-back when they think you're about to teleport.)

    In neutral, I'll use scat shot if I'm out of point range and only use weasel shot when I actually hit them (since the hitstop on the normal connecting makes it trivial to link weasel shot in that situation.)
    UMvC3: Magneto(EMD)/ X-23(CS)/Dante(JS)
    300%, Welcome to America.
    R.I.P. Iron Man/Rocket Raccoon
  • Kaiten92Kaiten92 Well-Known Pervert Joined: Posts: 12,459
    It's not even 4 Hs, three will do. What I recently realised is that it's not about doing it as quick as possible, it has its own rhythm and it's actually a fairly slow one. Play around with it and you'll figure it out.

    It's actually 2 Hs but eh. Timing Weasel Shot just takes practice.

    As for raw Fireworks, I suggest doing what I did. Practice a motion that helps you figure out the timing. In my case, I found doing QCB+L then a slowish HCB+H is near perfect timing for fireworks on whiff. After that, I just memorized the timing of when I actually press H/how long I take to do the HCB. Now I can do raw fireworks without any counting or extra motions or inputs 4/5 times.

    "Persona 4 Golden has taught me that I need to focus on maxing my S.Link's IRL.
    Too bad I spent like 80+ hours on a Single player game w/ non-existent people and fictional love interests.
    Kind of counterproductive isn't it?

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  • All_luckysAll_luckys Joined: Posts: 116
    one tip that makes the H~ Weasel Shot cancel easier is making sure the stick is in neutral and then hitting 4 on the following h double taps I get more consistency out of it that way. As for fireworks my visual cue is just as he stops sliding forward it's a pretty insane happy birthday tool against people using assists in a predictable manner for approach. I don't like empty Weasels all that much it's not super practical the angle is great for grounded opponents but any one approaching from jump height can blow it up but it does have it's uses though but nothing as abuse-able as air play or empty fireworks. I like using it on blocked H's more to guard my assist calls like rapid slash and plasma beam that in turn cover my telport mix ups and I would really prefer my opponent's not to get crossed up by the stinger telport set up and eat all that scaling
  • jak d riprjak d ripr Joined: Posts: 7,353
    So what leads to your decision to use either air dash :h: or :m:? Does player position/character choice factor in? And how do you guys air dash :h: / :m: on characters with short hitboxes like morrigan? My shit keeps whiffing.
  • CriminalUpperCriminalUpper =D Joined: Posts: 3,046
    edited April 2014
    jak d ripr wrote: »
    So what leads to your decision to use either air dash :h: or :m:? Does player position/character choice factor in? And how do you guys air dash :h: / :m: on characters with short hitboxes like morrigan? My shit keeps whiffing.

    Decision would generally be, am I challenging someone in neutral or attempting a mixup/pressure on the ground? If the former, Air Dash j.H for the air throw OS and makes for a safer air-to-air option. j.M is faster and has a better crossup hitbox which also hits lower to the ground. Ideal for mixup situations after you've had someone block an assist whilst grounded

    In the Morrigan matchup you don't want to be box dashing against her on the ground. The AA opportunities are just way too free in her favor. If you do have an assist that can hit her crouching hurtbox then it becomes an option but that option is probably inferior to teleport anyway


    And for why I'm here: Anyone have any good post-Snap mixups against air dash and double jump characters? I can't really get anything meaty aside from Jam Session + Assist (Vajra in this case), and if they decide to block instead of air dashing the incoming mixup ends there

    Edit: This is for the corner btw. I know he does have some really good stuff midscreen, I have nothing when they are in the corner though
  • SilentleroySilentleroy Joined: Posts: 25
    Crouching characters or in cross up situations, I use j.M. I mostly use airdash H from a farther distance because you can get anti-air'd so easily from almost any crouching button, and it whiffs on characters sometimes. Also, j.M crosses up faster making it harder to react to. Post teleport, I'll use H exclusively for either falling or airdash.

    Airdash with j.H is LM~H + holding forward for the OS. j.M is LH~M. I don't really superjump instant airdash that much, so I can't comment on how worthwhile that is.
  • DatSpardaUserDatSpardaUser Joined: Posts: 2,556
    Crouching characters or in cross up situations, I use j.M. I mostly use airdash H from a farther distance because you can get anti-air'd so easily from almost any crouching button, and it whiffs on characters sometimes. Also, j.M crosses up faster making it harder to react to. Post teleport, I'll use H exclusively for either falling or airdash.

    Airdash with j.H is LM~H + holding forward for the OS. j.M is LH~M. I don't really superjump instant airdash that much, so I can't comment on how worthwhile that is.

    Superjump buttons have extra 5 frames of hit/blockstun, not to mention it reaches minimum air dash height a little faster.
    I intended to put Gohan into the leading role. It didn’t work out. I felt that compared to Goku, he was ultimately not suited for the part.
  • charlie88charlie88 Ya'll niggas gay. The Keving Gates kinda gay. Joined: Posts: 5,113
    I am finding that standing h's (guns standing)is pretty useful in neutral has anyone found a use for it other than zoning?
    FC:1864 9258 8415
    PSN: Death_Loner_Kage
    Umvc3: Learning Viper...plays tron strange dante strider

    I am willing to play trade and embrace the suck
  • DatSpardaUserDatSpardaUser Joined: Posts: 2,556
    edited April 2014
    charlie88 wrote: »
    I am finding that standing h's (guns standing)is pretty useful in neutral has anyone found a use for it other than zoning?

    Countering missiles if you don't have a beam. I'm really digging it against Mag/Missiles recently since the Prop Shredder cancel is surprisingly fast to catch Mags trying to attack you after you hit Doom.
    I intended to put Gohan into the leading role. It didn’t work out. I felt that compared to Goku, he was ultimately not suited for the part.
  • charlie88charlie88 Ya'll niggas gay. The Keving Gates kinda gay. Joined: Posts: 5,113
    I have tagged missiles a lot. And his guns beat 5 point low priority projectiles like soul fist.
    FC:1864 9258 8415
    PSN: Death_Loner_Kage
    Umvc3: Learning Viper...plays tron strange dante strider

    I am willing to play trade and embrace the suck
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