Juri Combos: What works on who?

Metallicmike

Juri has alot of character specific setups, we discuss this in the general questions thread often but have yet to write any of it down in concrete for all to see, just snipets here and there with vague words to pick apart alot of the time too. Ive held onto these notes of mine for awhile and figured its about time i took the time to share them with the users of the forum.

The threads rules are simple, post information relating to setups, combos or otherwise that tend to rather than work universally, have to vary from character to character and ill add it in when i can.

The Thread in Spreadsheet form: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiNVoPvrYUGOdHFKcFZlRElXTXRFMVA0anlDaVVTWGc&hl=en_US#gid=0

Although its reccommended you read the section first, ive written it in a way that i would understand it, but ofc you may download it and edit it to your preference.

Ive written a few, but obviously i give credit to other contributors, if you spot a mistake let me know:

Mid Screen Full BnB Pinwheel Combo On Standing Characters

Spoiler:

The syntax for the full combo is something like:

[Jump in Attack] xx cr.mk/mp xx LK Fuhajin release xx cr.mk xx HK/EX Senpusha

its standard BnB and racks up the damage as well as pushs the opponent far into the corner however the combo needs to be done at point blank range or the cr.mk after the fireball wont connect. However it needs to be altered altogether because the cr.mk whiffs anyway on half the cast of characters, so the new combo would be something like:

[Jump in Attack] xx cr.mk/mp xx LK Fuhajin release xx EX/LK Senpusha/cr.hk

The list below is done on STANDING characters, the combo still works on all the cast if caught crouching.

The Full Combo Works On:

*Ryu
*Ken
*Honda
*Ibuki
*Dudley
*Evil Ryu
*Gouken
*Akuma
*Dan
*Oni
*Chun-li
*Dhalsim
*Viper
*Bison (dictator)
*Cammy
*Hakan
*Blanka
*Zangief
*Rufus
*T.Hawk
*Yang
*Yun

Special Attention to:
*Sakura (the final pinwheel has to be lk pinwheel, mk doesnt knockdown and leaves you with negative frames and hk + ex pinwheel dont combo)

Who It Doesnt Work On:

*Makoto
*Seth
*Gen
*Juri
*Abel
*Sagat
*Deejay
*Cody
*Guy
*Guile
*El Fuerte
*Vega (claw)
*Balrog (boxer)
*Fei Long
*Adon
*Rose

Corner Combo into U2

Spoiler:

In the corner its possible to do a Instant Air j.mp after a low fuhajin release if you are point blank with your opponent. This is a small list but within this it gets a step further in depth, first ill explain the combo which is:

cr.mp/mk xx lk.Fuhajin release xx IA j.mp xx lk.Shikusen/ex.Shikusen xx Kaisen Dankairaku

Now the point is that ex divekick whiffs on some characters in the corner, and lk divekick into U2 juggle doesnt work very well on a certain couple of characters. So heres the list and character specific notes:

- Seth (Ex divekick Whiffs, Lk divekick into U2 Works)

- Juri (Both setups Work)

- Abel (Ex divekick Whiffs, Lk divekick into U2 Works)

- C.Viper (Both setups Work)

- Sagat (Ex divekick Works, too hard to juggle into U2 after Lk divekick, As an added bonus its possible to substitute cr.mp/mk with cr.hp xx fuhajin release for extra damage in the combo)

- Zangief (Ex divekick Works, Lk divekick into U2 Whiffs)

- Vega (Ex divekick Whiffs, Lk divekick into U2 Works)

Video Supplement:
Credit goes to Kail for that video, its a good video showing both the combo and ways with which you can end up at the same result, giving you a general idea of how to apply it beyond just cr.mk/mp as a starter.

Jump in MPxxLK DivekickxxUltra 2

Spoiler:

This list includes the characters you can connect a U2 after the LK divekick cancelled off a jump in mp. The corner is a big factor to this setup, it often allows you to connect the U2 on characters that you cant mid screen and increases reliability overall on your timing. For best results make sure the j.mp (the tip of the hand even) connects on their head/in their face. Ive arranged this list in terms of difficulty:

* = Easy, always worth doing and its even easier in the corner (if done midscreen).

** = Medium, worth the risk if you connected the j.mp properly, theres still leniency. If its ** midscreen, consider it * if done in the corner.

*** = Hard, dont do it unless your desperate, execution must be flawless in terms of landing the j.mp and timing of your ultra input and even then doing this is pretty gimmicky. If its *** midscreen its probably */** in the corner.

Who it works on midscreen:

-Evil Ryu: *
-Ryu: *
-Ken: *
-Ibuki: *
-Makoto: *
-Gen: *
-Dan: *
-Fei Long: *
-Adon: *
-Rose: *

-Abel : **
-Viper: **
-Rufus: **
-T.Hawk: **
-Cammy: **
-El Fuerte: **

-Sakura (need to hit deep with mp for the dive kick to hit otherwise use mk dive): ***
-Dhalsim: ***
-Sagat: ***
-Vega: ***
-Chun-Li: ***
-Cody: ***

Only Works on in the Corner:

-Deejay: *
-Oni: *

-E.Honda: **
-Dudley: **
-Seth: **
-Gouken: **
-Akuma: **
-Juri: **
-M.Bison: **
-Guy: **
-Hakan: **
-Guile: **
-Balrog: **

-Zangief: ***
-Blanka: ***

Video Supplement:

Credit to Vulcan Hades for that.

Dashing Under Fireballs (Credit: deice-)

Spoiler:

Juris forward dash dips towards the middle of its animation and hence makes her hitbox slightly smaller allowing her to dash under some fireballs. The utalization of her dash can be applied to jump ins to make them whiff as well but for now this is for the casts fireballs.

Fireballs you can Dash Under:

* Rose
* Dhalsim
* Seth
* Gouken(easiest)
* Sagat high tiger shots
* Akuma(all of them)
* Guile
* Deejay
* Cody's knife

Fireballs you Cant Dash Under:

* Evil Ryu
* Oni
* Ryu
* Ken
* Chun-Li
* Sakura

Video Supplement: Credit to True Tech, Once again the video is short and doesnt demonstrate everything but its just to show you the general idea.

St.lp hitting on Crouchers (Credit: deice-)

Spoiler:

Basically in her set of BnB the difference between a close standing lk and a close/far standing lp is the frame advantage and range. The difference between a close lk and a far lk is damage and frame advantage, far lk is 40 damage and +4 on hit and close lk is 30 damage and +6 on hit. With close standing lk you can link into your crouching medium moves (preferably using plinks) but with far you cant. St.lp meets them in between, dealing 30 damage and has just abit more range than close lk (before it becomes far). But the main attraction is the +7 frame adv on hit, meaning you can link into cr.hp or make the cr.mk/mp link easier, so very important you land this. Unfortunatly lp tends to whiff on crouchers and its even harder to react to, but heres a list of characters that it doesnt whiff on crouching:

St.lp can Hit on Crouching:

* Abel
* Gouken
* Guile
* Hakan
* Sagat
* T.Hawk
* Zangief

Ex-Dive Kick xx J.HP

Spoiler:

The only followups after doing an Ex-Dive Kick are:

*Lk Pinwheel
*Ex-Pinwheel
*Jump Forward Hp
*Ultra 2
*FSE (Ultra 1) Versions of Medium and Hard Normals (both close and far but only the second hit of close mk and hk)

If you have Ultra 2, do Ultra 2, if you have Ultra 1, go for a normal into a reset, if you have one meter go for Ex-Pinwheel and then heres the toss up; should i do lk pinwheel or jump forward HP?

The advantage for going for jump forward HP is simply more damage (50 more than going for Lk-Pinwheel). At the possible sacrifice of giving yourself less time to setup another round of offence (if they tech the knockdown) but none the less its almost certainly the better option of the two.

But why am i making a list for it? Simple, it doesnt connect on everybody, each character bounces off the wall (after an Ex-Dive Kick) at a different distance, the closer to the wall they are when they bounce off, the harder to land the j.hp. So this list concerns how hard it is to land a jump forward HP after an Ex divekick, midscreen, keep in mind as you get closer to the corner this setup becomes easier for everyone...except Cody, which ill explain later:

* : This means its easy, always go for it because they will come right towards you.

**: This means they are abit far away, to land it you need to close the distance by landing the ex-dive kick on their upper body or having caught them a certain way in a jump (you will have to judge spacing).

***: Too hard, dont do it, do Lk Pinwheel, unless you start getting close to the corner.

-Abel: ***
-Adon: ***
-Akuma: **
-Balrog: **
-Blanka: *
-C Viper: *
-Cammy: **
-Chun-Li: ***
-Cody: * (Whiffs if Ex Divekick is Done in the Corner) + [Read Disclaimer At Bottom of Section]
-Dan: **
-Dee Jay: *
-Dhalsim: *
-Dudley: *
-E Honda: *
-El Fuerte: * (Whiffs if Ex Divekick is Done in the Corner)
-Evil Ryu: **
-Fei Long: **
-Gen: *
-Gouken: ***
-Guile: ***
-Guy: * (Whiffs if Ex Divekick is Done in the Corner)
-Hakan: *
-Ibuki: *
-Juri: **
-Ken: ***
-M Bison: **
-Makoto: *
-Oni: **
-Rose: **
-Rufus: *
-Ryu: ***
-Sagat: *
-Sakura: *
-Seth: *
-T Hawk: *
-Vega: ***
-Yang: **
-Yun: **
-Zangief: *

Disclaimer regarding Cody: Basically hes got the weirdest wall bounce, he lands right next to you if not directly above you, at midscreen ALWAYS go for jump Hp, lk pinwheel whiffs and ex pinwheel flicks him off after one hit. You can still land U2 midscreen and as you make your way to the corner, however if your ex dive kick lands directly the corner, U2 completely whiffs, so does jump HP, so if done in the corner, you need to do lk pinwheel/ex pinwheel they are your only options.

Metallicmike

Fuzzy Guard: J.MP (Credit: BeaM)

Spoiler:

This is juris best fuzzy and leaves no gap between a jumpin roundhouse and the instant air j.mp. It is of course possible to then cancel the j.mp into a lk divekick/exdivekick, which can then be connected into an assortment of moves, your options are: a full divekick, mk super, expinwheel, lk pinwheel, ex lk fireball, Ultra 2(difficulty is equal to that of the jumpin mp xx divekick xx U2 section). Its important to note that the j.mp at times doesnt combo if the jumpin roundhouse hits (character specific) and a full divekick followup whiffs on some characters in the corner.

Works On:

*Juri
*Sagat
*Seth (Corner full divekick whiffs)
*Vega (Corner full divekick whiffs)

Works On Jumpin Block only:

*Abel (Corner full divekick whiffs)
*Viper
*Dee Jay
*Dudley
*Gouken (Corner full divekick whiffs)
*Gen (Corner full divekick whiffs)
*Zangief
*T. Hawk
*Rose

Whiffs on everyone else.

Video Supplement:

Fuzzy Guard: J.HP (Credit: BeaM)

Spoiler:

J.hp or j.faps as its known on this board is juris second fuzzy guard, and now a word from BeaM:

"There IS a gap between j.rh and j.faps, so the other dude can dp or teleport or whatever(beats some things though, need to test more). It's also possible I didn't do it as quickly as I could have, making it escapable. Even though it was escapable, it was indeed still a fuzzy guard.

There were some cases where it would hit if the person remained blocking high, but the gap between the two moves would allow them to crouch in time and dodge the move. This generally happened against characters who would have j.mp whiff entirely, such as Ryu and Ken. I didn't test potential escapes with everyone, but I'll list what I did test."

Works On:

Honda
Dudley
Seth (Can teleport)
Gouken (Can counter but it whiffs)
Gen
Dan
Abel (Can EX Falling Sky, maybe normal version too, and roll)
C. Viper (Can at the very least evade with lp tk)
Sagat (Can DP the j.faps)
Cody (Can evade with BINGO)
Guy (Can ex tatsu, but it whiffs. Free punish!)
Hakan (Can U2 the j.faps)
Zangief (j.faps beats lariat!)
Vega (Can evade with backflip)
T. Hawk (can U2 the j.faps)
Adon (DP whiffs)

Hits on proper block only:

Ryu
Ken
Akuma
Juri(Can counter out)
Bison
Cammy(Can U2 the j.faps)
Dee Jay
Guile
Rufus
Rose
Yang
Yun

Whiffs completely on:

Evil Ryu
Ibuki
Makoto
Oni
Sakura
Chun Li
Dhalsim
Blanka
Fuerte
Balrog
Fei Long(Can U2 the j.faps)

Disclaimer from BeaM: "Of course, this is just based on what I got, if anyone had different results, please chime in."

Video Supplement:

FSE Punisher

Spoiler:

Right the FSE punisher is the most damage you can do mid screen without jumpin, fireball stores or even super. The combo is:

cr.mk xx st.mp xx st.hk xx cr.hp xx ex.Senpusha (396 dmg)

Video Supplement:
Credit obviously to Option-Select.com.

We arent talking tricky FSE stuff, just the punishment part in this, and that combo is the most you can do. If you have one meter, use expinwheel, if not you can do hk pinwheel. The problem with this combo is that some of the cast (and remember this needs to be done point blank to work anyway) have hitboxes which the last cr.hp doesnt reach. At this point you could either;

A) omit the last cr.hp and go staight to expinwheel at st.hk (344 dmg) or

B) do a different combo that does more damage on that specific character. So this list concerns the characters which the combo doesnt reach and the combo/s you can optionally do instead.

-Gen = A/D
-Sakura = A/D
-Juri = A/B/C
-Abel = A/B
-Viper = A/B
-Cammy = A/B
-Guy = A/C
-Rose = A/B

Combo A = st.mk xx cr.mp xx st.hk xx ex/hk Senpusha (349/321 dmg)

Combo B = cr.mp xx far st.mk (2hits) xx far st.HP xx ex/hk Senpusha (392/353 dmg) Spacing important, go to training mode to check how far you need to be when you use your cr.mp.

Combo C = cr.mk xx st.hk xx cr.hp xx ex/hk Senpusha (376/348 dmg)

Combo D = cr.mk xx st.mp xx st.hk xx st.hp xx ex.Senpusha (360 dmg, 1 meter)

If anyone has any better suggestions feel free to pitch in

Metallicmike

Normal xx Fireball Store xx Lk Fireball Release

Spoiler:

Its important to note that this list covers the characters (midscreen) that the following sequence combos:

Normal Move xx Light Kick Fireball Store xx Light Kick Fireball Release

That is it isnt covering doing bare fireball store to fireball, this gives different results because of different push back values, doing a preceding normal is a practical situation and how you would normally combo into fireball store. In the corner or close to the corner, this combo works on everyone, so this only addresses midscreen situations.

For each character that this doesnt work on, you need to use a Mk Fireball, its less practical in match situations but thats the only other way to squeeze damage out of a fireball store midscreen.

Works on:

-Abel
-Akuma
-Balrog
-Blanka
-Cody
-Dan
-Dudley
-Evil Ryu
-Hakan
-Ibuki
-Ken
-M Bison
-Oni
-Ryu
-Seth
-Vega
-Yang
-Yun

For everyone else, Mk fireball has to be used.

Video Supplement: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WZ798DHuHo&feature=channel_video_title

Far Standing HK on Crouchers(Not in FSE) (Credit: deice-)

Spoiler:

Far Standing Hk is a good poke and covers a good range very fast, but dont get blind sided when it whiffs a character whos crouching, prepare yourself and take in this list.

This list will cover who it whiffs on crouching outside of FSE, the list is sorted in terms of reliability, the top section is all the characters it hits no matter what stance, the second only hits them crouching when they guard, the third only hits them crouching if they dont guard and the fourth is a complete whiff while crouching no matter what;

Hits on crouching:

-Abel
-Akuma
-Balrog
-Dan
-Dudley
-Evil Ryu
-Fei Long
-Gouken
-Hakan
-Ken
-M.Bison
-Makoto
-Oni
-Rose
-Rufus
-Ryu
-Sagat
-Seth
-T.Hawk
-Yang
-Yun
-Zangief

Hits only if they are blocking(semi reliable):

-Cody
-El Fuerte
-Gen
-Guile
-Guy
-Honda
-Sakura ***
-Vega

Hits only if they arent blocking:

-C.Viper
-DeeJay
-Dhalsim

Whiffs on crouching completely:

-Adon
-Blanka
-Cammy
-Chun-Li
-Ibuki
-Juri

Disclaimer from deice regarding Sakura: "Sakura's headbob during crouch causes far.HK to whiff half the time on crouching Sakura. You can probably use it reliably as a poke against her by first reseting her animation with another poke, but tread with care."

Far Standing HK on Crouchers(In FSE)(Credit: deice-)

Spoiler:

Boy this ones a weird story, so far hk is a nice poke and what not, but how reliable is it under FSE(U1) on the characters that crouch? The answer...not very, we dont know the full details as of yet but the hit box on far standing HK is reduced while under the properties of FSE, which is inconvienient to say the least, theres some nice damaging combos out there using this normal but you wont be using it much after an overhead connects thats for sure.

Hits on crouching:

-Abel
-Gouken
-Sagat
-T.Hawk
-Zangief
-Fei Long***
-Seth***

*** = Hard to hit in combo, but works (tested with: Sekku xx far.LK xx far.MK xx far.HK xx Ex-Senpusha)

Hits During Combos Only (due to hitstun animation):

-Balrog
-Cody
-Guy
-Hakan

It whiffs on everyone else who crouches.

Tk Dive Kick Character Specific Information

Spoiler:

I compiled observations on each characters juggle state after getting hit by a TK Dive Kick (1 hit) and tried to gauge the overall difficulty to connect the expinwheel and U2 followups on their juggle state left by getting hit by the first hit of the divekick.

Juris Mk super can hit all characters really easily in their juggle state, its pretty much universal. Ex pinwheel also hits all characters but its harder for some than others. U2 has very specific ways of hit confirming. It depends on the strength of the Divekick used and where you hit it on the body.

U2 Difficulty Rating:

* = Easy, go for it, practical.
** = Practise would be required.
*** = very hard, almost gimmicky, its present but not practical.

Ex Pinwheel Difficulty Rating:

* = Easy no matter the divekick.
** = Still relatively easy, less time to confirm, Hk Divekick not reccommended.
*** = Very Short time to Hit Confirm, only Lk and well spaced Mk Divekicks creates the opportunity.

Spreadsheet reference:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiNVoPvrYUGOdHFKcFZlRElXTXRFMVA0anlDaVVTWGc&hl=en_US#gid=1

Metallicmike

reserved 3

Dr. Grammar

Maybe we could organize all this information into a chart. It's kind of confusing with the characters listed separately for everything.

Metallicmike

Dr. Grammar, post: 4820675 wrote:

Maybe we could organize all this information into a chart. It's kind of confusing with the characters listed separately for everything.

i mention this at the beggining, i want to see if anyone else will add in on the info before going to a chart, unless someone else wants to do it.

Dr. Grammar

Metallicmike, post: 4820676 wrote:

i mention this at the beggining, i want to see if anyone else will add in on the info before going to a chart, unless someone else wants to do it.

Oh, I missed that. Anyway, I went ahead and compiled this info in a spreadsheet.

Juri - What Works on Who

Metallicmike

Dr. Grammar, post: 4820677 wrote:

Oh, I missed that. Anyway, I went ahead and compiled this info in a spreadsheet.

Juri - What Works on Who

godlike

deice-

Very useful. I've been saving these types of lists in my personal black book of juri-fu, but having a thread for all the character specific lists sounds good.

It would be nice to have a easier to digest format for this, like if we could find groups that apply to many lists (like "tall guys", "wide hitbox", "large character", "pixie", "wierd"). It would also simplify memorization. But, I guess such convenient cross-combo applicable groupings don't exist.

As an aside, this would be useful information to have in the match-up thread also once we have it a bit more complete, listed per character so you can quickly check a specific matchup.

Here's a few lists I had in my book (don't know who was the original poster unfortunately):

Spoiler:

Juri can normal dash under the following character's fireballs

• Rose
• Dhalsim
• Seth
• Gouken(easyest)
• Sagat high tiger shots
• Akuma(all of them)
• Guile
• Deejay
• Cody's knife

She cannot dash under

• Ryu
• Ken
• Chun-Li
• Sakura

Spoiler:

s.LP works on x while crouching:

• Abel
• Gouken
• Hakan
• Sagat
• T.Hawk
• Zangief

Edit: nice work on the spreadsheet, it does clarify the info a lot! Also, easier to check for patterns if there's any easy groupings :)

Dr. Grammar

Doesn't it depend on the strength of the fireball whether Juri can dash under them or not?

deice-

Not that I know of. I remember this was the most thorough list back when it was being discussed. I remember there was some talk of Akuma's red fireball not being dashable, but turned out it was just harder.

Metallicmike

deice-, post: 4820679 wrote:

It would be nice to have a easier to digest format for this, like if we could find groups that apply to many lists (like "tall guys", "wide hitbox", "large character", "pixie", "wierd"). It would also simplify memorization. But, I guess such convenient cross-combo applicable groupings don't exist.

Yep your right, unfortunatly in my experience it doesnt matter how big either, take Zangief, hes the biggest turd in the game and hes one of two characters that cant be juggled into U2 after a divekick in the corner. Theres too many factors to take into account with juri one of them being the speed at which characters fall in juggle states and how far away they are projected after being hit. Stuff like that isnt part of whether or not a character is big, when i was testing the U2 juggles id have to say Gen was by far the most leniant to hit U2 with and thats more to do with the factors i just mentioned not his hitbox because hes tiny.

Metallicmike

BeaM, post: wrote:

Recorded some stuff last night of Juri's fuzzy guards, testing them against all the characters.

Spoiler:

There is no gap between j.rh and j.mp, so the other dude can't dp or teleport or whatever.

Works on:
Juri
Abel
Viper
Sagat
Dee Jay
Dudley
Seth
Gouken
Gen
Zangief
Vega
T. Hawk
Rose

Whiffs on:
Everyone else

Spoiler:

There IS a gap between j.rh and j.faps, so the other dude can dp or teleport or whatever(beats some things though, need to test more). It's also possible I didn't do it as quickly as I could have, making it escapable. Even though it was escapable, it was indeed still a fuzzy guard.

There were some cases where it would hit if the person remained blocking high, but the gap between the two moves would allow them to crouch in time and dodge the move. This generally happened against characters who would have j.mp whiff entirely, such as Ryu and Ken. I didn't test potential escapes with everyone, but I'll list what I did test.

Works on:
Honda
Dudley
Seth (Can teleport)
Gouken (Can counter but it whiffs)
Gen
Dan
Abel (Can EX Falling Sky, maybe normal version too, and roll)
C. Viper (Can at the very least evade with lp tk)
Sagat (Can DP the j.faps)
Cody (Can evade with BINGO)
Guy (Can ex tatsu, but it whiffs. Free punish!)
Hakan (Can U2 the j.faps)
Zangief (j.faps beats lariat!)
Vega (Can evade with backflip)
T. Hawk (can U2 the j.faps)
Adon (DP whiffs)

Hits on proper block only:
Ryu
Ken
Akuma
Juri(Can counter out)
Bison
Cammy(Can U2 the j.faps)
Dee Jay
Guile
Rufus
Rose

Whiffs completely on:
Ibuki
Makoto
Sakura
Chun Li
Dhalsim
Blanka
Fuerte
Balrog
Fei Long(Can U2 the j.faps)

Of course, this is just based on what I got, if anyone had different results, please chime in.

fished this out of the matchup thread, shoutouts to Beam for providing the original content.

hotaru

Nice work. ^^

I think it would be much easier to read if this was listed per character like the match-up thread instead of having huge lists for every combo. It would be much easier to learn "what works on who" that way, in my opinion.

Because we usually try to learn "what can I do on X character" instead of "who can I use X combo on".



For example:

Rose:
-j.HK>j.MP on block
-j.HK>j.HP on block
-dash under fb
-can't follow-up jumpin > normal xx release midscreen
-IA divekick > U2 midscreen
-cr.lk > OS: on miss EX Senpusha / on hit st.lk chain
-safejumpable, jumpin OS EX Senpushable
-...

Probably easier for you to fill with information, and easier to make it accurate too, since we don't have to go over the whole cast everytime.

deice-

Yeah, both formats are useful to have. The spreadsheet for collecting comprehensive information, the match-up format for quickly checking how to fight an opponent. I think it would be best if the match-up format were just integrated into the match-up thread. That way you could check quickly check tactics against each character and what character specific combos to use.

Metallicmike

hotaru, post: 4820684 wrote:

Probably easier for you to fill with information, and easier to make it accurate too, since we don't have to go over the whole cast everytime.

sorry son, i didnt realise you wanted me to do the work for you, the informations right here and theres even a spreadsheet for easier readability, so to be as blunt as possible do it yourself.

D_Dollars

i know this a thread dedicated for character specific combos, but i was wondering if we place the dash under fireballs in this thread also? i mean, it is character specific also and it will also help to just have everything character specific in 1 thread.

EDIT: we can also rank a tier list from easiest to hardest fireball to dash under. just a thought.

Metallicmike

D_Dollars, post: 4820687 wrote:

i know this a thread dedicated for character specific combos, but i was wondering if we place the dash under fireballs in this thread also? i mean, it is character specific also and it will also help to just have everything character specific in 1 thread.

EDIT: we can also rank a tier list from easiest to hardest fireball to dash under. just a thought.

ye ill add everything in to the top when i can be bothered, which wouldn't take long, im not sure the difficulty level for dashing each fireball but i know for a fact that gouken is def the easiest. And yeah anything character specific not just combos, ill be testing the following FSE combo at some point soon on all the cast:

Cr.mk xx st/cr.mp xx st.hk xx cr.hp xx pinwheel

it does the most damage for a FSE combo, meter less and without fireball store midscreen but where if done point blank lets say for a punish or during a focus crumple the last cr.hp whiffs so you would have to omit the last cr.hp.

On that note considering the last cr.hp would have to be omitted is there a slightly more damaging combo that can be done in its place, possibly utalizing lk+lp/far standing forward and roundhouse?

hotaru

There may be a few mistakes if we do tests only with standing not blocking.

For example the "full combo" results can be different if the oponent is crouching or standing.

The instant j.MP results may also vary depending on what the oponent is doing, on some of them you are able to land it when they are standing, but not when they are in block animation ( = no Fuzzy Guard ) or throw animation.


I didn't test against the whole cast but for Juri you can do the "full combo" after a jump in if she is crouching. On Dictator I had no success landing instant j.MP if done at the same time as throw, and I couldn't Fuzzy Guard him either.

Metallicmike

hotaru, post: 4820689 wrote:

There may be a few mistakes if we do tests only with standing not blocking.

For example the "full combo" results can be different if the oponent is crouching or standing.

The instant j.MP results may also vary depending on what the oponent is doing, on some of them you are able to land it when they are standing, but not when they are in block animation ( = no Fuzzy Guard ) or throw animation.


I didn't test against the whole cast but for Juri you can do the "full combo" after a jump in if she is crouching. On Dictator I had no success landing instant j.MP if done at the same time as throw, and I couldn't Fuzzy Guard him either.

Full combo is for standing if you want to test crouchers then test and post, otherwise i think its fairly obvious if it whiffs on them standing theres no point in taking the risk that it might hit if they crouch, being that you pretty much have to be point blank for the full connect to work anyway.

instant j.mp on dictator works, i dont know what it is your doing wrong, but it works, if you want it to be more reliable then setup a tick situation like lk pinwheel FADC jump forward mp. Fuzzys dont work on dictator, fuzzys are another topic ill repeat:

Instand Jump Medium Punch and Fuzzy Guards are not the same thing

i posted a quote with the fuzzy guards listed that ill put at the top eventually.

hotaru

Yeah I'm aware Fuzzy isn't instant j.MP, it was an illustration to explain boxes are modified under block/hitstun and throw.
I did test it with cr.MK xx lk Senpusha FADC j.MP (forward and backward), it didn't work consistantly on Dictator and Fuerte; when they are in the throw animation it tends to whiff (tested with different throw timings). Worked well on everyone else on your list.


The full combo works on the whole cast if they are crouching (I tested it to make sure).

Metallicmike

tested abit more on fuerte and couldnt get it to work as much, still worked fairly well on bison, maybe not on a grab animation but it still works if you did it to him on wakeup or normally. As for the crouching thing, nice to know ill just edit it in on the top as a reminder.

Metallicmike

Updated the thread with fuzzy guards, dash under fireballs, low punch on crouchers and removed el fuerte from the instant air j.mp setup.

deice-

Metallicmike, post: 4820693 wrote:

Updated the thread with fuzzy guards, dash under fireballs, low punch on crouchers and removed el fuerte from the instant air j.mp setup.

Thanks for the hard work mate, very much appreciated

Metallicmike

updated the thread again with the FSE punisher information, tested by myself so if anyone has better feedback or ideas feel free to pitch in.

Dr. Grammar

I think it'd be better to just keep FSE-related stuff in its respective thread. We don't want that information scattered in different places.

Metallicmike

its just listing who the cr.hp whiffs on and a couple of alt options to use as additional info, like i said in the write up, nothing special just the punishment.

Metallicmike

thinking of covering the light kick BnBs, since they are the most practical ones to use (well you could swap a st.lk for a st.lp here and there if it hits them even on crouching), ie just /cr/st/cr.lk and 3x cr.lk everyother problems with BnBs can probably go in the matchup thread and ill just test these.

hotaru

Far HK on crouchers (not under FSE):

Misses:

Juri
Ibuki
Chun-li
Dhalsim
C.Viper
Cammy
DeeJay
Blanka
Adon


Works on:

Everyone else.

Kail

I love this thread. I highly suggest learning the matchups with these in mind. Mistakes on these things are a no no. If you have a phone I suggest uploading them to it so you can prepare for a match properly.

Metallicmike

Updated with hotarus post, also changed a few things in the instant air MP section after further testing,

Kail

I'm working on a compilation of a setup where dive kick crosses up. I'll keep you all updated

Metallicmike

Kail, post: 4820702 wrote:

I'm working on a compilation of a setup where dive kick crosses up. I'll keep you all updated

sounds gimmicky, i like it. Id imagine it only works on the larger hit box characters, but if you get something to work, try to pull off something after the divekick, otherwise the damage wouldnt be worth it.

To my knowledge after divekicks without followups you can connect:

low ex-fireball
lk pinwheel
ex pinwheel
super
Ultra 2

Kail

Metallicmike, post: 4820703 wrote:

sounds gimmicky, i like it. Id imagine it only works on the larger hit box characters, but if you get something to work, try to pull off something after the divekick, otherwise the damage wouldnt be worth it.

To my knowledge after divekicks without followups you can connect:

low ex-fireball
lk pinwheel
ex pinwheel
super
Ultra 2

A setup for Ryu. Works vs Ken. I'm testing others later.

Metallicmike

Updated Thread: Aside from trying to improve readability and grammar etc... I dropped the whole instant air j.mp section for lack of practicality. I added in a new section that demonstrates combos into U2 in the corner utalizing IA j.mp, i tested it on all the characters which i could hit fuzzy and of those only a few were left. It lists whether or not you can do ex divekick or lk divekick into ultra after the j.mp, does good damage in the corner off a fireball store + 1 optional meter, also you can begin at a jumpin attack it makes no difference. Also added in the jumpin mp xx divekick to ultra section a warning that sakura and sagat are hard to pull it off on (since i actually tryed them in a proper match recently and failed badly, then went back to training mode and met little success there too).

Feedback like that is much valued from u guys if you spot inconsistencies with my lists.

Metallicmike

Kail, post: 4820704 wrote:

A setup for Ryu. Works vs Ken. I'm testing others later.

does it have to be a lk xx lp then jump lk divekick? on crouching as well, most people stand when you jump at them so it might be best to first find a setup that has them standing, if thats possible, otherwise thanks for the time your putting into this, i look forward to seeing further results.

Kail

Metallicmike, post: 4820706 wrote:

does it have to be a lk xx lp then jump lk divekick? on crouching as well, most people stand when you jump at them so it might be best to first find a setup that has them standing, if thats possible, otherwise thanks for the time your putting into this, i look forward to seeing further results.

I really doubt it will hit standing. The setup was made actually on a standing dummy, and hit them from the front. I set it up with timing only without the visual cue. I dashed up, c.lk c.lp dive kick. hit front. Replayed it back to see if it hit on crouching. Did.

Metallicmike

Kail, post: 4820707 wrote:

I really doubt it will hit standing. The setup was made actually on a standing dummy, and hit them from the front. I set it up with timing only without the visual cue. I dashed up, c.lk c.lp dive kick. hit front. Replayed it back to see if it hit on crouching. Did.

i dont expect that it would hit everyone standing, maybe some maybe a few, maybe just one person, but if theres a setup that is practical and works, then its worth doing, i might look into it myself when i hit the lab next as well.

Kail

Metallicmike, post: 4820708 wrote:

i dont expect that it would hit everyone standing, maybe some maybe a few, maybe just one person, but if theres a setup that is practical and works, then its worth doing, i might look into it myself when i hit the lab next as well.

It comes down to height and angle. I've seen this hit before, so I knew it worked, however I cant think of a height and angle that it would cross up standing.

Metallicmike

Kail, post: 4820709 wrote:

It comes down to height and angle. I've seen this hit before, so I knew it worked, however I cant think of a height and angle that it would cross up standing.

it might not be possible on standing after all, its too hard to find if there is one, the trial and error all falls under that i might have actually found a setup that works on a character in the roster but i tried it on another character and hence thought it didnt work and moved on.

Metallicmike

Update Notes:

-Major change to the jumpin mp xx divekick xx U2 section, changed a few names around based on further testing and sorted them by difficulty to give you a general idea of how hard it will be.

-Added video supplements where i could find them to the J.mp xx divekick xx U2, Fuzzy Guard j.mp/j.hp, dash under fireballs, FSE punisher and corner U2 combo sections.

-Added a new section for the popular cr.mk video done by sh1Nd because its just that good it needs to be everywhere.

-Added my personal spreadsheet version of the thread that ill update as i add more stuff to this thread, best you download it and edit it to your liking should you want it.

Shake3

how do you do the option select you have in ur thread? also while im at it, are there any other option selects juri has besides os pinwheel, and some crouch tech ones?

Metallicmike

Shake3, post: 4820712 wrote:

how do you do the option select you have in ur thread? also while im at it, are there any other option selects juri has besides os pinwheel, and some crouch tech ones?

you just jumpin, press hk close to the ground and almost at the same time press down and mk then do qcf lk for the fuha store, delay the fuha store input abit so you dont get negative edge and end up doing a mk fireball store.

As for other option selects theres a couple that are useful here and there ill tell you some of the ones i use.

E.Honda: safe jump OS lk pinwheel, it loses to ex headbutt but tags backdash and makes his regular and ex buttsplashs whiff so you can try punish them, yeah its risky when he has meter.

Cody: safe jump OS Ultra 2 off a backthrow, Ultra 2 tags backdash and the invincibility covers EX-Zonk.

Rufus: he has to be meterless but the same Ultra 2 OS safejump will catch his backdash, otherwise wakeup exmessiah and exsnakestrikes will make U2 whiff jumpin hk will tag anything else.

Bison: Its a toss up between safe jump OS HK pinwheel and OS EX pinwheel, HK pinwheel beats teleport and backdash and expinwheel beats Ex-PC, Ex-Headstomp(headstomp only or abit of damage) and backdash.

Akuma: OS backdash allows you to cover enough distance to punish his teleport with a normal + special cancel, if you cross him up on jumpin make sure the teleport has time to auto correct.

Abel: OS regular throw (its a universal OS, most abels are wise to this, especially command throw OS's) after a deep jumpin beats EX-Tornado Throw and any roll including EX-Roll.

Anti BackDash OS: doesnt require a jumpin, this one is pretty universal to, you do meaty cr.lk on wakeup and press the Ultra KKK button, if the meaty lk connects another cr.lk will come out, if it doesnt sweep will come out. You can do this better in FSE where you press cr.lk xx cr.mp xx (OS cr.hk) xx cr.mk/sekku xx whatever, if cr.lk connects mp will come out and if they backdash sweep comes out.

Rose: same technique as above but instead of just inputting down and KKK, do qcb KKK, expinwheel will come out if cr.lk whiffs and st.lk will come out if it connects.

Other than that OS lk pinwheel usually universally catchs backdashs. thats all i can remember for now but that should keep you busy enough.

deice-

I did some testing with far.HK vs crouching opponents. I realized it whiffs quite a bit of people, and it depends on whether you're in FSE or not - it whiffs on almost everyone during FSE. Its also affected whether the opponent is just crouching, or crouch blocking. For reliable use as a poke you probably want to only use it if it won't whiff in any situation.

Spoiler:

Hits crouching:
Abel
Fei Long*
Gouken
Sagat
Seth*
T.Hawk
Zangief

* Hard to hit in combo, but works (tried Sekku, far.LK, far.MK, far.HK xx pinwheel)

Hits during combos only (due to hitstun animation):
Balrog (boxer)
Cody
Guy
Hakan

Spoiler:

Whiffs completely on crouching:
Adon
Blanka
Cammy
Chun-Li
Ibuki
Juri

Whiffs while crouch blocking (hits crouching):
C.Viper
DeeJay
Dhalsim

Whiffs while crouching (hits crouch block):
Cody
El Fuerte
Gen
Guile
Guy
Honda
Sakura **
Vega (Claw)

** Sakura's headbob during crouch causes far.HK to whiff half the time on crouching Sakura. You can probably use it reliably as a poke against her by first reseting her animation with another poke, but tread with care.

Spoiler:

List of people for whom far.HK will not whiff (outside of FSE):
Abel
Akuma
Balrog (Boxer)
Dan
Dudley
Fei Long
Gouken
Hakan
Ken
M.Bison (Dictator)
Makoto
Rose
Rufus
Ryu
Sagat
Seth
T.Hawk
Zangief

Edit: The third spoiler is simply the information from the second spoiler inverted, every character that isn't listed in the second spoiler as whiffing under some conditions is listed in the third spoiler.

Metallicmike

good shit man ill edit it in tomorrow, and hopefully try and write and format it in a way thats easier to understand, and then update the spreadsheet in a easier to understand way lol.

Metallicmike

Thread Update: Added in the info regarding far hk from deice, tried to make it look as coherant as possible, can still be hard to get your head around though. Made modifications to the spreadsheet, added a couple of comments, tried to make it smaller, added in the far hk information, added in the info regarding j.faps fuzzy on proper block only (previously had accidentily left it out).

I still reccommend people to download and edit the spreadsheet to their own preferance if they dont like the way ive done it, but try to read the write up section in the thread first to avoid any misinterpretations of information.

Kail

I don't have an hd recorder but I could rcord the videos.

Metallicmike

Yeah if you want you can do some videos, they always help, just post them here and ill add them in when i can.

Kail

Metallicmike, post: 4820718 wrote:

Yeah if you want you can do some videos, they always help, just post them here and ill add them in when i can.

So this is what I'll do. In gonna find a cool way to show these things like iafaps, iastrizong, cmk link, and fse punished in a video. I got a few ideas but I'm open for ideas. I've been kicking around showing them hitting over and over to mix with the beat of a trance song.

Psh, haha, psh, haha, psh haha, psh, haha. Should be nice kick snare alternative.

Or psh, sore, psh, ugh, psh, sore, psh, ugh.

Should be interesting.

But what I'll ask is if there's anything else you need me to add let me know. I'll probably record tonight.

Metallicmike

The corner combo needs a better video, i just quickly went to the combo thread and looked around for video links in the hopes of examples. If you can show both setups, the exdivekick into U2 and lk dive into U2 versions (bonus points for adding in fierce xx lk fireball xx j.mp against sagat, its a sagat specific combo, read the section lol).

Far hk doesnt need a vid its self explanatory. FSE punisher i like the vid thats there right now, also shows off other FSE stuff if whoever sees it wants to carry on watching, though you can do the other 4 combos i mention in FSE punisher just to clarify it abit better.

Full Bnb pinwheel needs a video, example of it working as normal, then into a whiffed version, maybe show what they can do instead, ie. (after fireball) sweep, lk pinwheel and expinwheel. Defo show what happens with sakura in regards to the other pinwheels not comboing.

Dashing under fireballs could use a better video, but not neccessary.

the fuzzys are covered, i like how it is now.

Though id prefer you didnt put all content into one single video (so i can link each seperate video to each seperate section). Ultimately its your invested time, if its helpfull in illustrating the points made here then its going to go up either way, so your call.

Kail

Noted. I'll make a compilation with bells and whistles, then a straight forward video for each of these idea. Sound good?