KOF 98UM Final Edition?

jamiejame911jamiejame911 Ever learningJoined: Posts: 424
What is the inside story on this one? I love KOF 98UM on Xbox, but what is this edition supposed to address?
Casually playing:
SFIV: Fei, Yun
ST: Ryu, Deejay
SG: Valentine
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Comments

  • rogueyoshirogueyoshi Nothing Comes Easy Joined: Posts: 1,929
    itll probably be a port of 98um hero to nesica
    nignagnog: minority report
    nignagnog: you got punished for your future crimes
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  • AlexanderAlexander Joined: Posts: 977
    Anyone get the 98 Hero rom yet? Let's get it on FBA and GGPO this mother.
  • droldrol Joined: Posts: 15
    What is the inside story on this one? I love KOF 98UM on Xbox, but what is this edition supposed to address?

    KOF98UM could not beat KOF98 Vanilla in the arcades because it is unbalanced

    So SNKP will try again to level the characters with Final Edition
  • Lord_RaptorLord_Raptor Joined: Posts: 8,810
    KOF98UM could not beat KOF98 Vanilla in the arcades because it is unbalanced

    So SNKP will try again to level the characters with Final Edition
    Did you suddennly forget about Vanilla Daimon & Chizuru
    Are you right? Are you READY!?
  • droldrol Joined: Posts: 15
    Did you suddennly forget about Vanilla Daimon & Chizuru

    Vanilla is not perfect, but it is much better than KOF98UM

    And I have not even quoted the new created Bugs ...
  • Return of ShikiReturn of Shiki Your favorite game sucks Joined: Posts: 4,411
    KOF98UM could not beat KOF98 Vanilla in the arcades because it is unbalanced

    Fuckin' seriously...?
    If you listen to fools, the mob rules...
  • Dandy JDandy J now you face a super saiyan shaolin Joined: Posts: 2,790
    5 char top tier > 2 char top tier
    "The challenge is, how can we create a mechanic where it makes your mistakes not matter and turns the game into a clown show? All these solutions are great but they don't take into account what X-Factor is supposed to do, which is turn the game into a joke."- O. Seth Killian
  • droldrol Joined: Posts: 15
    Fuckin' seriously...?

    Serious...

    KOF 98: Ultimate Match

    SSS Tier: Krauser, (Ex) Geese, Iori
    SS Tier: Chris (Orochi), Geese, Choi
    S Tier: Daimon, Terry (Both), Saisyu, Takuma
    A Tier: Brian, Ryo, King (Both), Chris, Yashiro (Orochi), Athena, Mr. Big
    B Tier: Kim, Mature, Yamazaki (both), Yuri (Ex), Benimaru, Kagura, Ryo (Ex), Robert, Kyo (Ex), Heidern
    C Tier: Kasumi, Yuri (Normal), Leona, Eiji, Yashiro, Mai (Both), Mary (Both), Joe (Both), Kyo, Ralf
    D Tier: Clark, Heavy D!, Chang, Robert (Ex), Vice, Billy (Both), Andy (Both), Shermie
    E Tier: Shermie (Orochi), Shingo, Lucky
    Missing Tier: Rugal, Chin, and Kensou

    KOF 98: The Slugfest

    S Class: Kyo, Goro, Chizuru, Iori
    A Class: Benimaru, Robert, Ralf, Chang, Yashiro (Orochi), Chris, Chris (Orochi)
    B Class: Kyo (95) , Terry, Joe, Yashiro, Takuma
    C Class: Ryo, Clark, Kensou, Yamazaki, Mary, Mature
    D Class: Terry (Alt) * , Ryo (Alt) , Leona, Athena, Chin, Mai , Mai (Alt) , King, Choi, Kim, Shermie, Vice, Shingo, Saishu
    E Class: Robert (Alt) , Yuri, Heavy D
    F Class: Andy, Yuri (Alt) , Billy, Heidern, Brian, Rugal
    G Class: Andy (Alt) , Joe (Alt) , Billy (Alt) , Shermie (Orochi), Lucky
  • jamiejame911jamiejame911 Ever learning Joined: Posts: 424
    Heavy D and O Shermie are really that low?
    Casually playing:
    SFIV: Fei, Yun
    ST: Ryu, Deejay
    SG: Valentine
  • sibarrazsibarraz Joined: Posts: 191
    People should stop to fucking base opinions on tier list, even though one game had only 2 two SSS characters doesn't hide the fact in 98 UM, the rest of the characters had way more chances than frginn chizuru, goro, kyo, orochi chris and Iori in 98
  • Dandy JDandy J now you face a super saiyan shaolin Joined: Posts: 2,790
    the low tiers have a way better time fighting tops in og98 than 98um. same reason msp is manageable by low tiers in marvel but scrub is not. its not about relative power its about match ups
    "The challenge is, how can we create a mechanic where it makes your mistakes not matter and turns the game into a clown show? All these solutions are great but they don't take into account what X-Factor is supposed to do, which is turn the game into a joke."- O. Seth Killian
  • Tech RomancerTech Romancer PSN: Tech_Romancer Joined: Posts: 5,200
    the low tiers have a way better time fighting tops in og98 than 98um. same reason msp is manageable by low tiers in marvel but scrub is not. its not about relative power its about match ups

    Good analogy.
    youtube.com/user/Ergeniz
    "Problem with Marvel is when you are not mashing you are losing". - 9thPixel
  • ShishiohShishioh Starbreaker Joined: Posts: 2,921
    the low tiers have a way better time fighting tops in og98 than 98um. same reason msp is manageable by low tiers in marvel but scrub is not. its not about relative power its about match ups

    I beg to differ...

    Og 98 was pretty brutal if you had to face a good Iori or Chizuru with someone like Lucky or Brian.

    UM made the worst characters that much better where they could at least compete. Rugal and Brian pretty much shot up out of nowhere in the whole spectrum of things.

    And that list up there is too damn big. SSS...really?
    "Hitboxes have nothing at all to do with the way a fighting game plays. they are just a means to an end."-Random Discus user
    Written exactly like that.
  • Dandy JDandy J now you face a super saiyan shaolin Joined: Posts: 2,790
    both lucky and brian have good normals, and good normals are useful vs rushdown characters. krauser or ex geese however, do not give a fuck how good your normals are. those 2 are harder match ups for those 2 characters than any of those that exist in og98
    "The challenge is, how can we create a mechanic where it makes your mistakes not matter and turns the game into a clown show? All these solutions are great but they don't take into account what X-Factor is supposed to do, which is turn the game into a joke."- O. Seth Killian
  • ShishiohShishioh Starbreaker Joined: Posts: 2,921
    both lucky and brian have good normals, and good normals are useful vs rushdown characters. krauser or ex geese however, do not give a fuck how good your normals are. those 2 are harder match ups for those 2 characters than any of those that exist in og98

    I'll give you Lucky but a good Brian can rape all but the most sound Krausers. Lucky has it easier vs Ex Geese though.

    Hopefully I can get XTG to play 98um so we can record some matchup specific stuff.
    "Hitboxes have nothing at all to do with the way a fighting game plays. they are just a means to an end."-Random Discus user
    Written exactly like that.
  • Return of ShikiReturn of Shiki Your favorite game sucks Joined: Posts: 4,411
    Serious...

    KOF 98: Ultimate Match

    SSS Tier: Krauser, (Ex) Geese, Iori
    SS Tier: Chris (Orochi), Geese, Choi
    S Tier: Daimon, Terry (Both), Saisyu, Takuma
    A Tier: Brian, Ryo, King (Both), Chris, Yashiro (Orochi), Athena, Mr. Big
    B Tier: Kim, Mature, Yamazaki (both), Yuri (Ex), Benimaru, Kagura, Ryo (Ex), Robert, Kyo (Ex), Heidern
    C Tier: Kasumi, Yuri (Normal), Leona, Eiji, Yashiro, Mai (Both), Mary (Both), Joe (Both), Kyo, Ralf
    D Tier: Clark, Heavy D!, Chang, Robert (Ex), Vice, Billy (Both), Andy (Both), Shermie
    E Tier: Shermie (Orochi), Shingo, Lucky
    Missing Tier: Rugal, Chin, and Kensou

    KOF 98: The Slugfest

    S Class: Kyo, Goro, Chizuru, Iori
    A Class: Benimaru, Robert, Ralf, Chang, Yashiro (Orochi), Chris, Chris (Orochi)
    B Class: Kyo (95) , Terry, Joe, Yashiro, Takuma
    C Class: Ryo, Clark, Kensou, Yamazaki, Mary, Mature
    D Class: Terry (Alt) * , Ryo (Alt) , Leona, Athena, Chin, Mai , Mai (Alt) , King, Choi, Kim, Shermie, Vice, Shingo, Saishu
    E Class: Robert (Alt) , Yuri, Heavy D
    F Class: Andy, Yuri (Alt) , Billy, Heidern, Brian, Rugal
    G Class: Andy (Alt) , Joe (Alt) , Billy (Alt) , Shermie (Orochi), Lucky

    Yes, I've seen both of those tier lists before, and the KOF 98UM one is still idiotic.
    There's no such thing as "SSS" tier in that game, and even if there was, the relative difference between the top and bottom in KOF98UM is pretty much the same as regular 98.
    I'm not saying 98UM is perfectly balanced, but if anybody thinks regular 98' is that much better then they're a fucking twit.
    If you listen to fools, the mob rules...
  • Hatred EdgeHatred Edge I am Hatred. I am the Night. Joined: Posts: 16,371
    Fucking Choi is that high in 98UM? FUCKING CHOI?!:mad:

    Wait wait... why am I getting mad? I don't play anyone in that game anyway.
    Has anyone thanked you today for not setting the whole world on fire?

    They should. I won't. I advocate setting the world on fire. But morons who actually like it, benefit from society, would do well to thank you and men like you for not visiting hell upon them.

    "You don't know what it's like to hate. To have your entire life become nothing more than an expression of hate. Nothing else matters. Nothing else can compare. Or taste as sweet."
  • Syxx573Syxx573 Jo Mama Joined: Posts: 8,963
    i think in kof in general like many games the tiers are more based off of individual strengths and weaknesses while games like sf are more based off of individual matchup charts, simply because the system is so flexible. Of course individual matchups do play a role in tiers but not to the same degree.
  • XTGXTG Gimme mah DYREKTEEV Joined: Posts: 2,363
    I'll give you Lucky but a good Brian can rape all but the most sound Krausers. Lucky has it easier vs Ex Geese though.

    Hopefully I can get XTG to play 98um so we can record some matchup specific stuff.

    I do wanna play O. Yashiro VS KOF 98 UM Top Tier just for matchup experience/study.
    a real job, first day of a road trip, or a blowjob should be the only reason to wake up at 7am
  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    Serious...

    KOF 98: Ultimate Match

    SSS Tier: Krauser, (Ex) Geese, Iori
    SS Tier: Chris (Orochi), Geese, Choi
    S Tier: Daimon, Terry (Both), Saisyu, Takuma
    A Tier: Brian, Ryo, King (Both), Chris, Yashiro (Orochi), Athena, Mr. Big
    B Tier: Kim, Mature, Yamazaki (both), Yuri (Ex), Benimaru, Kagura, Ryo (Ex), Robert, Kyo (Ex), Heidern
    C Tier: Kasumi, Yuri (Normal), Leona, Eiji, Yashiro, Mai (Both), Mary (Both), Joe (Both), Kyo, Ralf
    D Tier: Clark, Heavy D!, Chang, Robert (Ex), Vice, Billy (Both), Andy (Both), Shermie
    E Tier: Shermie (Orochi), Shingo, Lucky
    Missing Tier: Rugal, Chin, and Kensou

    Where'd you get this list from? It totally doesn't match what I see in Japanese match videos (tournaments especially). I don't understand why Takuma or Daimon are so high up, or how Eiji and Ex Yuri are so low.

    Also the modes being used really change the tiers of some characters. From what I see, Kim with walk and ex mode meter is comparable, tierwise, to Krauser (or pretty close).

    98UM is a lot more diverse (minus Krauser). Game is more balanced than 98.
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
  • droldrol Joined: Posts: 15
    In the end no matter what we think KOF98UM was a flop in the arcades so Final Edition is coming
  • Return of ShikiReturn of Shiki Your favorite game sucks Joined: Posts: 4,411
    Where'd you get this list from? It totally doesn't match what I see in Japanese match videos (tournaments especially). I don't understand why Takuma or Daimon are so high up, or how Eiji and Ex Yuri are so low.

    Also the modes being used really change the tiers of some characters. From what I see, Kim with walk and ex mode meter is comparable, tierwise, to Krauser (or pretty close).

    Not only that, but it groups normal and EX versions of characters that don't even make sense.
    I've almost never seen regular King compared to EX King which is on a lot of teams, but this tier list puts them together.
    If you listen to fools, the mob rules...
  • Dandy JDandy J now you face a super saiyan shaolin Joined: Posts: 2,790
    i saw king after ex king newness wore off
    "The challenge is, how can we create a mechanic where it makes your mistakes not matter and turns the game into a clown show? All these solutions are great but they don't take into account what X-Factor is supposed to do, which is turn the game into a joke."- O. Seth Killian
  • sibarrazsibarraz Joined: Posts: 191
    Heavy D E tier, Eiji C tier

    Now SERIOUSLY?

    98 UM tier list is really retarded, lots of times eiji is my best character to beat some krausers, and lots of times I had seen E tier players beating krauser, he is not that invencible

    98 and 98 um are both very balanced games, but in UM lots of characters had more options than in OG
  • CronopioCronopio ST Joined: Posts: 2,131
    UM made Extra mode useful, which instantly makes it worse than OG 98.
  • Tech RomancerTech Romancer PSN: Tech_Romancer Joined: Posts: 5,200
    UM made Extra mode useful, which instantly makes it worse than OG 98.

    I don't understand.
    youtube.com/user/Ergeniz
    "Problem with Marvel is when you are not mashing you are losing". - 9thPixel
  • danixcodanixco Joined: Posts: 39
    Anyone get the 98 Hero rom yet? Let's get it on FBA and GGPO this mother.

    I can get the orange, but i don't know how to extract the juice, you know what I mean :wgrin:, if someone point me in the right direction we can do this together.

    Get the juice, talk with GGPO/request (I don't know how it works), pay a donation to GGPO (like the same $$ for download in XBLA or wathever in order to give a big THANKS to them) and then everyone play happy 98UM; sounds fun to me and a good investment.

    I'll just wait for an answer, maybe redirect me to another site/forum. Also, what it means FBA?
  • AlexanderAlexander Joined: Posts: 977
    Have you tried the Guru at the Rom Dump? Dependable dude. I'd gladly donate to get this on GGPO/Supercade. Though they might not upload it due to fear of reprisal from SNKP, but we could still kailllera this bitch.

    Also FBA means Fina Burn Alpha, the emulator used by GGPO/Supercade/Arclive.
  • danixcodanixco Joined: Posts: 39
    Have you tried the Guru at the Rom Dump? Dependable dude. I'd gladly donate to get this on GGPO/Supercade. Though they might not upload it due to fear of reprisal from SNKP, but we could still kailllera this bitch.

    Also FBA means Fina Burn Alpha, the emulator used by GGPO/Supercade/Arclive.

    It looks like we'll have to wait. There's some restrictions from FBA using less than 3 years old roms. Also I have mixed reviews from the Rom Dump guy (plus ship the thing to AUS and wait if he's capable to do it; just read PGM1 is not fully emulated right now. I thought this was an easy process, like I can do it at home (PC + cables):sad:.

    Looks like the best option right now is to "inform" SNK (same method as 02um) about XBLA 98UM netcode.
  • Dark GeeseDark Geese Joined: Posts: 12,439
    Sigh...smdh..I gotta agree with Emil on this one guys, why do you guys judge too damn much on tier lists? Seriously? Geez I hate to sound pessimistic but does anything change around here? Obsessing over tier lists and stuff like that are for people that don't play the game that much...bottom line is play the game more people and stop obsessing over let's see..JAPANESE/ASIAN TIER LISTS. Tiers are different for different countries, when will the USA ever get this concept? Or will they ever get this concept? There is no ONE "RIGHT" Tier List!! Different countries have different styles, favor different characters, thus there will be different tier lists!

    Play more, jockride tier lists LESS.

    Juarez, Mexico Tier list for 98UM looks different, looks like this:

    S Class:
    Krauser, Iori, Geese/EX, EX Mary, Orochi Chris, Orochi Yashiro, Eiji, Kyo,Yuri/EX, EX King

    A Class:

    Daimon, Mr. Big, Heavy D, Robert, EX Ryo, Chizuru, EX Robert

    Again I think the problem is you guys aren't playing that much or aren't playing very, very skilled players in this game. Because if you were, you wouldn't care about a Japanese Tier List, you would understand Tier Lists are different depending on where you are...you would grasp that concept thoroughly...

    -DG
    **The KOF Cup 2011: March 10-14th, CDJ, Mexico w/Hummer from JAPAN!**
    **Mexico vs. Japan Part III!!**
  • nitro2345nitro2345 Joined: Posts: 43
    Sigh...smdh..I gotta agree with Emil on this one guys, why do you guys judge too damn much on tier lists? Seriously? Geez I hate to sound pessimistic but does anything change around here? Obsessing over tier lists and stuff like that are for people that don't play the game that much...bottom line is play the game more people and stop obsessing over let's see..JAPANESE/ASIAN TIER LISTS. Tiers are different for different countries, when will the USA ever get this concept? Or will they ever get this concept? There is no ONE "RIGHT" Tier List!! Different countries have different styles, favor different characters, thus there will be different tier lists!

    Play more, jockride tier lists LESS.

    Juarez, Mexico Tier list for 98UM looks different, looks like this:

    S Class:
    Krauser, Iori, Geese/EX, EX Mary, Orochi Chris, Orochi Yashiro, Eiji, Kyo,Yuri/EX, EX King

    A Class:

    Daimon, Mr. Big, Heavy D, Robert, EX Ryo, Chizuru, EX Robert

    Again I think the problem is you guys aren't playing that much or aren't playing very, very skilled players in this game. Because if you were, you wouldn't care about a Japanese Tier List, you would understand Tier Lists are different depending on where you are...you would grasp that concept thoroughly...

    -DG


    and sorry dude, I have to disagree this time with you on this one,I mean tier lists (in its vast majority) are made for a reason. top tiers are top tiers for those reasons, and will still be top tiers, in any part of the world, sure there are going to be good players , talented, skilled players, in different countries ,wining using either mid tiers or low tiers, but that doesn't mean they are top-god tiers just because of that. Usually the disagreements come in the middle and the bottom parts of those lists but not at the top.
    Also about the list you put there, amm...you also included, Krauser, Geese, Iori...that makes my point, and besides, In juarez they don't actually play that game that much, so any list will be just personal preferences for a character and not much of a tier list.
  • nitro2345nitro2345 Joined: Posts: 43
    and about this thread, imo OG98 was more unbalanced than 98um, OG daimon and iori are just more unbalanced than any of the 2 bastard half brothers in um... also I don't see why they do have to came with this revised editions everytime, I mean to be fair they should make revised editions for all other kofs that have S.O.B's owning the ass of other characters, I as a player I feel that whenever or wherever I want to play a kof it should be the same kof no matter the console or place I am playing it at, about the people tier whoring, don't bother, just relax, and tagg the person as a pussy and a no skill player, that ussses or abuses them, or just enjoy when u kick their ass using low tiers, or even if you lose feel satisfied knowing that u were different using them
  • TerrastormTerrastorm Joined: Posts: 263
    ^ That's not what he's saying. He's saying that westerners treat Japanese opinions like the bible, and that there would be different lists for different countries. He is not disputing the overall concept of a tier list, just our tendency to think that Japanese opinion is always right.
  • nitro2345nitro2345 Joined: Posts: 43
    ^ That's not what he's saying. He's saying that westerners treat Japanese opinions like the bible, and that there would be different lists for different countries. He is not disputing the overall concept of a tier list, just our tendency to think that Japanese opinion is always right.

    No, then u didn'tget what I was saying as well ... I wasn't saying he is wrong about what a tier lis t is overall, what I was saying is that tiers are tiers for a reason, a reason that won't change no matter if you are in Japan, Latvia or Kiribati, sure there would be a few changes in 1 cathegories, s tier to a tier or so, but krauser would remain in that place or gato in xi.
  • necronomiCRONnecronomiCRON "IPPEN SHINU DE KOI! Joined: Posts: 109
    The tier list for 98 has to do with the options the characters have for specific situations. For instance Iori and Kyo have a great standing close C that arcs upward, or they can mix up more easily than other characters. Any character can be good in 98, they just don't have as many options, so it takes more to be skilled with them.

    This is why the Japanese tier list is solid to me.
    "No I wanna know something from Mr. Panda Bear here, if you pandas are from mountainous areas of China and Tibet how come you eat bamboo which is prone to grow only in drier more arid regions"
  • nitro2345nitro2345 Joined: Posts: 43
    agree it has to do with all of that along wth other things as well
  • Dark GeeseDark Geese Joined: Posts: 12,439
    Yeah Nitro that is what I am saying, Westerners treat the Japanese Tier List like it's Gods Word, which is not how it should be at all. Also they are playing 98UM in Juarez more than you think...not as much as 2002 obviously, and not even 2002 UM, but more than you think trust me on that!

    Now give or take you are always gonna find a certain amount of players like Krauser, Iori, Geese that are staple on most tier lists, but there are gonna be variations on tier lists because there are different styles.

    For example, in Juarez Angel is Top Tier in 2002 UM, but in Japan they have her damn near bottom tier, how do you explain that? Location differences...
    **The KOF Cup 2011: March 10-14th, CDJ, Mexico w/Hummer from JAPAN!**
    **Mexico vs. Japan Part III!!**
  • nitro2345nitro2345 Joined: Posts: 43
    Yeah Nitro that is what I am saying, Westerners treat the Japanese Tier List like it's Gods Word, which is not how it should be at all. Also they are playing 98UM in Juarez more than you think...not as much as 2002 obviously, and not even 2002 UM, but more than you think trust me on that!

    Now give or take you are always gonna find a certain amount of players like Krauser, Iori, Geese that are staple on most tier lists, but there are gonna be variations on tier lists because there are different styles.

    For example, in Juarez Angel is Top Tier in 2002 UM, but in Japan they have her damn near bottom tier, how do you explain that? Location differences...

    well, yeah that's the point, that even in places where the "Japanese" list is debated, u find krauser , geese, etc, and any other tier on other kofs, so even though some people don't like it they(asians) are right at least on that. Of course some variations occur . now regarding on your question of how do I explain that, well imo that happens in Juarez, because certain players are or were at a moment new to the 2002 UM game, so their obvious choice was to play with the characters they knew or played well with in OG2002,ignoring what changes that character suffered, and it's ok they remained playing great with that Angel, even though she isn't top, so ok good for them ^_^ but that doesn't make her top imo, and tons of examples can be named in this matter.
  • Dark GeeseDark Geese Joined: Posts: 12,439
    well, yeah that's the point, that even in places where the "Japanese" list is debated, u find krauser , geese, etc, and any other tier on other kofs, so even though some people don't like it they(asians) are right at least on that. Of course some variations occur . now regarding on your question of how do I explain that, well imo that happens in Juarez, because certain players are or were at a moment new to the 2002 UM game, so their obvious choice was to play with the characters they knew or played well with in OG2002,ignoring what changes that character suffered, and it's ok they remained playing great with that Angel, even though she isn't top, so ok good for them ^_^ but that doesn't make her top imo, and tons of examples can be named in this matter.

    But I say the Juarez players know Angel much better than these Asian players due to the Mexican style revolving around Angel. In Japan etc you have Angels but not as many as you do in Mexico, thus the Mexican players bring out the full potential of Angel that was otherwise not brought out by these Asian players. For example if you play vs. Zeus or Kula's Angel, you will see Angel played at damn near her full potential (certainly Kulas), and it is then that you will realize that she is Top Tier..

    And you can see Kula's Angel dismantling Ivan who is a seasoned player in 2002 UM, not new to the game at all which further showed me that in her full potential Angel is top tier...also those that saw that in Juarez agree with me as well...it's the same stuff around the time Duo Lon Leader sprung up in Juarez, I recall having these types of debates with people, and then the more they saw of Duo Lon Leader, the more they became convinced...

    Plus as I said on Dream Cancel, Angel doesn't have any bad matchups, another sign of someone that is Top Tier, matchup problems. Angel doesn't have any..not Kasumi, Nameless, K', King, any of those, she can compete head to head with any of the top tier..

    Now since Hummer now plays 2002 UM, I would love to see Hummer vs. Zeus and Kula in 2002 UM, I believe certainly these matches will show the power of Angel..

    Even in this match here (older one you were there you left earlier) you can see the power of Angel in 2002 UM:


    But better not to talk about Angel in this thread since she is for what we know NOT in 98 Final Edition lol. (What a surprise that would be!!!! LOL)
    **The KOF Cup 2011: March 10-14th, CDJ, Mexico w/Hummer from JAPAN!**
    **Mexico vs. Japan Part III!!**
  • nitro2345nitro2345 Joined: Posts: 43
    But I say the Juarez players know Angel much better than these Asian players due to the Mexican style revolving around Angel. In Japan etc you have Angels but not as many as you do in Mexico, thus the Mexican players bring out the full potential of Angel that was otherwise not brought out by these Asian players. For example if you play vs. Zeus or Kula's Angel, you will see Angel played at damn near her full potential (certainly Kulas), and it is then that you will realize that she is Top Tier..

    And you can see Kula's Angel dismantling Ivan who is a seasoned player in 2002 UM, not new to the game at all which further showed me that in her full potential Angel is top tier...also those that saw that in Juarez agree with me as well...it's the same stuff around the time Duo Lon Leader sprung up in Juarez, I recall having these types of debates with people, and then the more they saw of Duo Lon Leader, the more they became convinced...

    Plus as I said on Dream Cancel, Angel doesn't have any bad matchups, another sign of someone that is Top Tier, matchup problems. Angel doesn't have any..not Kasumi, Nameless, K', King, any of those, she can compete head to head with any of the top tier..

    Now since Hummer now plays 2002 UM, I would love to see Hummer vs. Zeus and Kula in 2002 UM, I believe certainly these matches will show the power of Angel..

    Even in this match here (older one you were there you left earlier) you can see the power of Angel in 2002 UM:


    But better not to talk about Angel in this thread since she is for what we know NOT in 98 Final Edition lol. (What a surprise that would be!!!! LOL)

    well yeah I understand your point, but to a degree, I mean maybe I didn't explained myself too well, but what I'm basically saying ( and said) is that top tiers are top tiers by theirselves, is totally independant on who is playing them, is not something the players can control, sure, there are examples of good Angels or good players owning ass with mid, low tiers, but that doesn't make the character ( not the player) a top tier, sure Ismael Angel is devasting like u show in that vid, but that's an example of ismael being a top player, not an angel being top tier character.
    And also, why is he playing angel even in UM? because he has been playing with her for a looooong time in OG and logically it was and it is his first choice in UM, along with whip ( which he uses in OG as well) now he just traded the ridiculous broken atena in OG for king there, but if he had chosen atena in um she would had worked great for him as well because he knows how to play her at her top, but that wouldn't make her top tier in UM either. as u said she might lack of bad match ups but tiers usually have more symptoms, and maybe in Japan she isn't since um increased the stamina and angel has little damage and she lost her infinite ( at last, no more cheapness). That's something in where asians have an edge over some Mexicans, in the ability to adapt better to different games, being able to play with different characters and styles, that's one of the conclusions and analysis one can come up with after seeing the so called videos of cola vs kula and osmani.
    And about duo lon a top tier in xi well, I guess u don't want to get into that again lol but sorry for me he isn't , and to try to compare it as a character and as a leader to oswald ( like the debate was before) is just absurd to me, but it's my own opinion after all.
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