KOF 98UM Final Edition?

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  • Dark GeeseDark Geese Joined: Posts: 12,439
    Well you are entitled to your opinion, and I would comment on it more but I do not feel it is appropriate for this particular thread, maybe a 2002 UM or KOFXI Thread but not for this particular thread. Tiers are not absolute, and as I say they reflect the players in particular regions...and that's basically all that needs to be said about that particular topic I feel without going into further detail. Some characters may take work but at their maximum potential can hang with the rest of the cast....Angel in 2002 UM is one of those characters and Duo Lon Leader is another, though yes Oswald is better than Duo Lon Leader period, but Duo Lon Leader is better than most of the cast in KOFXI...even WITH their Leaders..

    And remember the TRUE definition of a Tier List:

    It is a list of the characters based off not only ease of use as everyone knows, but who wins tournaments/ranks high in a particular country or region.

    In Juarez you are certainly going to see characters like Duo Lon Leader, Oswald, Kim (L), Duck King, Kula, Malin (L), Ryo ranking high...

    Also Ismael does not like Athena in 2002 UM, he says she doesn't work for him..Athena at best would probably be B to A Class in 2002 UM. Now I am aware there could be things I have not seen and acknoweledge that..
    **The KOF Cup 2011: March 10-14th, CDJ, Mexico w/Hummer from JAPAN!**
    **Mexico vs. Japan Part III!!**
  • nitro2345nitro2345 Joined: Posts: 43
    Well you are entitled to your opinion, and I would comment on it more but I do not feel it is appropriate for this particular thread, maybe a 2002 UM or KOFXI Thread but not for this particular thread. Tiers are not absolute, and as I say they reflect the players in particular regions...and that's basically all that needs to be said about that particular topic I feel without going into further detail. Some characters may take work but at their maximum potential can hang with the rest of the cast....Angel in 2002 UM is one of those characters and Duo Lon Leader is another, though yes Oswald is better than Duo Lon Leader period, but Duo Lon Leader is better than most of the cast in KOFXI...even WITH their Leaders..

    And remember the TRUE definition of a Tier List:

    It is a list of the characters based off not only ease of use as everyone knows, but who wins tournaments/ranks high in a particular country or region.

    In Juarez you are certainly going to see characters like Duo Lon Leader, Oswald, Kim (L), Duck King, Kula, Malin (L), Ryo ranking high...

    Also Ismael does not like Athena in 2002 UM, he says she doesn't work for him..Athena at best would probably be B to A Class in 2002 UM. Now I am aware there could be things I have not seen and acknoweledge that..

    well then the differences of our criteria might be on what a tier list is for each one of us, for me the top tiers don't neccesarily are dictaded by what is high in any given region, or by who wins tournaments with X or Y character, Kula and Gato will be top tiers, no matter the place, Asia or America,no matter who wins whatever tourney, even you here in Mexico use both of them, also, for me a good player isn't neccesarily who wins X or Y tournaments. Alexis for example, can be wining al tournaments in Juarez using Always clark, yamazaki and billy (and billy is a character every player can use), but will that make him the better player? no, just probably the better player using those characters, since he probably wouldn't make it far using others, and there are lots of examples of people like him, Esteban for example is a better player than him why? cuz winning doesn't dictate who is better , other things such of style of play and the characters used for the tournament ,how did one wins ( clock, perfect, combos, etc),should be factors to consider, with his may lee, to make it effective he has to make 40 or 50% more effort since he has to switch or cancel in between combos,or for pressure strings something a clark or a billy player doesn't need to do, similar thing goes for Angel and a vast list of characters. Kula and osmani got a lesson in all that in those so commented videos.
  • Dark GeeseDark Geese Joined: Posts: 12,439
    well then the differences of our criteria might be on what a tier list is for each one of us, for me the top tiers don't neccesarily are dictaded by what is high in any given region, or by who wins tournaments with X or Y character, Kula and Gato will be top tiers, no matter the place, Asia or America,no matter who wins whatever tourney, even you here in Mexico use both of them, also, for me a good player isn't neccesarily who wins X or Y tournaments. Alexis for example, can be wining al tournaments in Juarez using Always clark, yamazaki and billy (and billy is a character every player can use), but will that make him the better player? no, just probably the better player using those characters, since he probably wouldn't make it far using others, and there are lots of examples of people like him, Esteban for example is a better player than him why? cuz winning doesn't dictate who is better , other things such of style of play and the characters used for the tournament ,how did one wins ( clock, perfect, combos, etc),should be factors to consider, with his may lee, to make it effective he has to make 40 or 50% more effort since he has to switch or cancel in between combos,or for pressure strings something a clark or a billy player doesn't need to do, similar thing goes for Angel and a vast list of characters. Kula and osmani got a lesson in all that in those so commented videos.

    I believe our criteria is different, because to me it's all about winning. It's doing what it takes to win, as Vince Lombardi said, winning is everything. Alexis is considered better than Esteban because he wins, contrary to Emil once thinking he was a scrub, Alexis is far from a scrub. Now see Alexis has been choking as of late, so he may not even make the 6-on-6 cut for the North, that's REAL TALK, you've gotta earn that, and how do you earn that? Ranking high in tournaments, that is the criteria that both me and Lecter use. Me and Lecter just had this conversation yesterday, between Lalo and Esteban, Esteban is a better player overall, but Esteban lets the pressure get to him a lot and it causes him to choke. Lalo handles the pressure with a I don't give a damn attitude, so he does better than Esteban, so who do we say is the better player? Lalo...why? He handles the pressure better.

    So it's just two different ways to look at things. As I say there are no absolutes, but when it comes to international tournaments and stuff I wanna come to some set form of criteria because I refuse to go through JuareZ WarZone ever again, it will be settled win lose or draw who is the better player on not just one day, but THREE TO FOUR DAYS.

    -DG
    **The KOF Cup 2011: March 10-14th, CDJ, Mexico w/Hummer from JAPAN!**
    **Mexico vs. Japan Part III!!**
  • Tech RomancerTech Romancer PSN: Tech_Romancer Joined: Posts: 5,200
    Also Ismael does not like Athena in 2002 UM, he says she doesn't work for him..Athena at best would probably be B to A Class in 2002 UM. Now I am aware there could be things I have not seen and acknoweledge that..

    :rofl:

    Read: Ismael does not like Athena in UM because he can no longer tier whore her like in OG2K2. No more sitting at the top with great zoning game = waste of time playing her now. Just like the May Lee, Angel, Choi player no longer "likes" those characters because they no longer have an infinite, dominating strings and the midget is no longer at the top of the tier list.

    I don't get why these players try to act if they feel out of likeness with the character when it painfully obvious they just tier whore. Thing is, I don't even have an issue with that, just don't get why they don't just come out and say it.
    youtube.com/user/Ergeniz
    "Problem with Marvel is when you are not mashing you are losing". - 9thPixel
  • Dark GeeseDark Geese Joined: Posts: 12,439
    :rofl:

    Read: Ismael does not like Athena in UM because he can no longer tier whore her like in OG2K2. No more sitting at the top with great zoning game = waste of time playing her now. Just like the May Lee, Angel, Choi player no longer "likes" those characters because they no longer have an infinite, dominating strings and the midget is no longer at the top of the tier list.

    I don't get why these players try to act if they feel out of likeness with the character when it painfully obvious they just tier whore. Thing is, I don't even have an issue with that, just don't get why they don't just come out and say it.

    Now that's actually a good interview question to ask him lol.
    **The KOF Cup 2011: March 10-14th, CDJ, Mexico w/Hummer from JAPAN!**
    **Mexico vs. Japan Part III!!**
  • nitro2345nitro2345 Joined: Posts: 43
    I believe our criteria is different, because to me it's all about winning. It's doing what it takes to win, as Vince Lombardi said, winning is everything. Alexis is considered better than Esteban because he wins, contrary to Emil once thinking he was a scrub, Alexis is far from a scrub. Now see Alexis has been choking as of late, so he may not even make the 6-on-6 cut for the North, that's REAL TALK, you've gotta earn that, and how do you earn that? Ranking high in tournaments, that is the criteria that both me and Lecter use. Me and Lecter just had this conversation yesterday, between Lalo and Esteban, Esteban is a better player overall, but Esteban lets the pressure get to him a lot and it causes him to choke. Lalo handles the pressure with a I don't give a damn attitude, so he does better than Esteban, so who do we say is the better player? Lalo...why? He handles the pressure better.

    So it's just two different ways to look at things. As I say there are no absolutes, but when it comes to international tournaments and stuff I wanna come to some set form of criteria because I refuse to go through JuareZ WarZone ever again, it will be settled win lose or draw who is the better player on not just one day, but THREE TO FOUR DAYS.

    -DG

    well aren't you contradiciting yourself here? double standaring? first you say wining is everything.. then u use another criteria such as pressure managing to define who is better player between lalo and esteban...
    And for me and to other players winning isn't everything, u see, there is "winning", and WINNING for example, if u like soccer , there are teams that win badly, 1-0 defending being pussies, playing bad, and there are others like brazil or netherlands, that WIN playing nice, playing bonito, to them winning playing badly contrary to their style or philosophy means nothing they preffer to loose before winning like that, and that's what make them great. Same thing in kof, there are better players that preffer to know they are better , WIN playing nicely and flashy, with difficult characters to handle, than simply going tier all time. Personaly winning by doing these when I can, tastes better than simply winning using krauser, kula, etc or winning by judgment, time etc, that's why cola is better tahn kula or osmani.
  • Dark GeeseDark Geese Joined: Posts: 12,439
    I don't see it as contradicting myself, to me there is no double standard period, the one that wins the most is the better player, to me it's black and white it's that simple, I do not allow myself to be influenced by other types of thinking, especially when most of the time it's my money being spent to bring a lot of these players over. What I want when it is done is a finality, most questions being answered, whoever won was better, no excuses all of that.

    Yeah of course no one wants to see someone Tier Whore all the time, but from the flip side as even Desmond says in his interview/podcast:

    People are playing for money, which is something people simply have to understand, and until they get to that particular level of play or close, and I do mean that particular level where pressure is high and you are close to tasting that money, then more than likely that is a hard concept to grasp 100% because you've never been in that situation.

    It's almost a fan like perspective, a casual player like perspective, but not a perspective from a competitive player that is trying to do what it takes to win, and that's the type of player I am and those are the criterias I use.

    Now I tell people even when they watch my videos if they don't like the fact that I use XYZ character I tell them they can always choose not to watch, that is their God given right, no one is making them watch, but when I am playing seriously for money on the line I am going to use the characters not only I feel the most comfortable with be it if they are top tier or not, but the ones I FEEL fit my style and give me the BEST chance to win.

    Now if I am losing who knows I could pull out some surprise characters and at times I do, that is the benefit of learning the entire cast, you could exploit a matchup that your opponent may not know, and that may be the difference in the game.

    So summary- Criteria for me bottom line is wins...wins period, wins/ranking high...that's it..nothing more, nothing less. Winning/ranking high with consistency...

    Alexis=Better than Esteban why? Alexis has beaten Esteban in tournaments more and has ranked higher than Esteban more often.

    Lalo is better than Esteban why? Lalo has consistently ranked higher than Esteban in tournaments.

    That is my criteria. I keep it simple, I don't like complicating it, especially when we are talking about an excess of $2,000 being spent on these things, I like to keep it simple and get questions answered. I leave the discussions, theories, all that stuff to you guys, my job is to get answers...
    **The KOF Cup 2011: March 10-14th, CDJ, Mexico w/Hummer from JAPAN!**
    **Mexico vs. Japan Part III!!**
  • BiGGDaddyCaneBiGGDaddyCane ☵☳☷☵☴☵☳☲☷☵ Joined: Posts: 932
    Its ambitious as hell in this thread and from what I see at the moment its not even rightfully about the topic of the thread. But hey whatever.....
    " I'll stain my hands with your blood - Geese "
    KOF 98 Slugfest Dream Match Never Ends
  • Dark GeeseDark Geese Joined: Posts: 12,439
    Its ambitious as hell in this thread and from what I see at the moment its not even rightfully about the topic of the thread. But hey whatever.....

    Hence I say if we wanna talk about 2002 UM and KOFXI we should direct it to those particular threads...if it wants to be about 98UM FE then we can keep it here lol.
    **The KOF Cup 2011: March 10-14th, CDJ, Mexico w/Hummer from JAPAN!**
    **Mexico vs. Japan Part III!!**
  • nitro2345nitro2345 Joined: Posts: 43
    I don't see it as contradicting myself, to me there is no double standard period, the one that wins the most is the better player, to me it's black and white it's that simple, I do not allow myself to be influenced by other types of thinking, especially when most of the time it's my money being spent to bring a lot of these players over. What I want when it is done is a finality, most questions being answered, whoever won was better, no excuses all of that.

    Yeah of course no one wants to see someone Tier Whore all the time, but from the flip side as even Desmond says in his interview/podcast:

    People are playing for money, which is something people simply have to understand, and until they get to that particular level of play or close, and I do mean that particular level where pressure is high and you are close to tasting that money, then more than likely that is a hard concept to grasp 100% because you've never been in that situation.

    It's almost a fan like perspective, a casual player like perspective, but not a perspective from a competitive player that is trying to do what it takes to win, and that's the type of player I am and those are the criterias I use.

    Now I tell people even when they watch my videos if they don't like the fact that I use XYZ character I tell them they can always choose not to watch, that is their God given right, no one is making them watch, but when I am playing seriously for money on the line I am going to use the characters not only I feel the most comfortable with be it if they are top tier or not, but the ones I FEEL fit my style and give me the BEST chance to win.

    Now if I am losing who knows I could pull out some surprise characters and at times I do, that is the benefit of learning the entire cast, you could exploit a matchup that your opponent may not know, and that may be the difference in the game.

    So summary- Criteria for me bottom line is wins...wins period, wins/ranking high...that's it..nothing more, nothing less. Winning/ranking high with consistency...

    Alexis=Better than Esteban why? Alexis has beaten Esteban in tournaments more and has ranked higher than Esteban more often.

    Lalo is better than Esteban why? Lalo has consistently ranked higher than Esteban in tournaments.

    That is my criteria. I keep it simple, I don't like complicating it, especially when we are talking about an excess of $2,000 being spent on these things, I like to keep it simple and get questions answered. I leave the discussions, theories, all that stuff to you guys, my job is to get answers...

    Well this seems that is getting nowhere because, we don't understand each other way of thinking, so I will try to ressume it as much as I can with one example, btw I never talked about money, u brought that up, money playing, life playing, regular tournament, or whatever it's just part of the enviroment, the atmosphere....but for me, and other people, fans or not as u called us, there is "winning", and Winning , playing nice, bonito, flashy whatever, I for example, ( I don't know if you) would respect more, and admire more a player that wins a tourney, money on the line or not, ( mostly money) using chin, mature and seth than a common one tier whoring with atena or kim etc, not just in kof, like in baseball, "oh! yankees have won the world series!" but meeeh...they have all the money in the world, but if the I dunno pithsburg pirates won! now that creates more excitement and respect for the people, and that is exactly what the videos of cola vs kula and osmani represent and lets not forget other players that have done things like those , mostly asian, Because all of these, and other stuff I mentioned in previous posts, it's why I consider them better, period.
  • Dark GeeseDark Geese Joined: Posts: 12,439
    As I said I understand that, people want the underdog to win, they get tired of seeing the same thing over and over and over, as I told you I understand that, but at the same time people have to understand I see both sides of the story, and so I see both arguments, the one you are talking about, and the one of the player that is playing his best characters and people hate him because he's winning most of the time AND they just happen to be high/top tier and talk about they don't respect them etc etc.

    These people say they don't respect them, but deep inside they do, and they know they do, people just like the underdog/bandwagon approach etc. If they didn't respect these players then they would take them up on a money match first to 10 for $200 right instead of talking behind their backs and then disappearing when they confront them on it no? So yes most of this "lack of respect" stuff is mostly behind the back talk that people know they damn well wouldn't say to that particular person because then they will be exposed for the phony/fraud they are!...yawn...been there seen that LMFAO.

    So I understand why you consider the Asians better, you understand why I consider whoever wins better...as I said, to me it's simple, winning is everything, be it if its with the worst characters in the game, or the best..I do not like excuses, you put your best foot forward in a tournament, whoever that is, because heaven forbid what are people going to say if it just happens to be low tier players? People automatically are going to make excuses.."Well what did you expect he was using ADON?"

    Or since people put the Asians on a pedestal, heaven forbid if they lose to someone they consider inferior like the Mexicans since these people believe the Asians have the "Midas Touch" (Whatever they touch turns to gold/wins)..

    They make excuses...

    I don't like excuses whatsoever, if you win you win, if you lose you lose.

    Also you are looping the Asians into one category are you not? What about people in Brazil/South America that play low tiers and stuff like that? There are many sides to the story even in Latin America further South than Mexico that you are not considering...

    It's not just about Mexico vs. Asia.... Mexico vs. Japan is a small part of the story, which will turn into Mexico vs. Taiwan, I mean look at Kensou from DF, he uses Ramon, Kensou, Athena, he could be your COLA so to speak in Mexico, does well with low tiers in tournaments... (sans Athena)
    **The KOF Cup 2011: March 10-14th, CDJ, Mexico w/Hummer from JAPAN!**
    **Mexico vs. Japan Part III!!**
  • nitro2345nitro2345 Joined: Posts: 43
    As I said I understand that, people want the underdog to win, they get tired of seeing the same thing over and over and over, as I told you I understand that, but at the same time people have to understand I see both sides of the story, and so I see both arguments, the one you are talking about, and the one of the player that is playing his best characters and people hate him because he's winning most of the time AND they just happen to be high/top tier and talk about they don't respect them etc etc.

    These people say they don't respect them, but deep inside they do, and they know they do, people just like the underdog/bandwagon approach etc. If they didn't respect these players then they would take them up on a money match first to 10 for $200 right instead of talking behind their backs and then disappearing when they confront them on it no? So yes most of this "lack of respect" stuff is mostly behind the back talk that people know they damn well wouldn't say to that particular person because then they will be exposed for the phony/fraud they are!...yawn...been there seen that LMFAO.

    So I understand why you consider the Asians better, you understand why I consider whoever wins better...as I said, to me it's simple, winning is everything, be it if its with the worst characters in the game, or the best..I do not like excuses, you put your best foot forward in a tournament, whoever that is, because heaven forbid what are people going to say if it just happens to be low tier players? People automatically are going to make excuses.."Well what did you expect he was using ADON?"

    Or since people put the Asians on a pedestal, heaven forbid if they lose to someone they consider inferior like the Mexicans since these people believe the Asians have the "Midas Touch" (Whatever they touch turns to gold/wins)..

    They make excuses...

    I don't like excuses whatsoever, if you win you win, if you lose you lose.

    Also you are looping the Asians into one category are you not? What about people in Brazil/South America that play low tiers and stuff like that? There are many sides to the story even in Latin America further South than Mexico that you are not considering...

    It's not just about Mexico vs. Asia.... Mexico vs. Japan is a small part of the story, which will turn into Mexico vs. Taiwan, I mean look at Kensou from DF, he uses Ramon, Kensou, Athena, he could be your COLA so to speak in Mexico, does well with low tiers in tournaments... (sans Athena)

    well maybe the word admiration is more proper than respect, and u can't know if "deep inside" we do or not, I know who I respect and who I don't,and I wouldn't call it underdogs, I prefer to call them brave, innovative and talented. also are u accusing me and the people that share my views of being frauds? what do you want me /us to do ? what do you mean by confronting them? want me to go personally to tell them what qualities a good player has? or why asians are better?and make them a list of what they have and lack of? and would they beat me in a game of kof after that? of course they would no question, I don't invest even a fraction of the time they have spent in kof ,but what would that proove? will that gave them the qualities they lack? would that make them better players? no. So what point would that have.

    Ok, I'm glad that those mexicans players can compete at that level with those characters , I haven't heard of them but that's good =) about the asians having the midas touch no , that's probably what people like emill thinks, but Mexico has proven them wrong
  • Dark GeeseDark Geese Joined: Posts: 12,439
    I'm talking about something in general, there will always be exceptions to the rule..but its something I've seen in my own personal shoes from being on the opposite side of the equation, the you know the guy hated and the people that talk behind others backs but vanish like ninjas when you put them to the fire, that other situation I told you about, so I am speaking in general terms etc and about mainly people here in the UNITED STATES.

    Not all the people are how I speak of, but I have seen a LOT of them that way...

    Plus different countries have different cultures etc and I have seen different attitudes in Mexico than I have in the USA, matter of fact the differences couldn't be anymore apparent, like night and day..which is a different topic altogether. So how about those Krauser nerfs in Final Edition everyone? LOL.

    Another person even in Juarez you aren't considering- Hugo. Hugo uses Terry, Andy, Joe, Benimaru! He Got Top 6 in the Battle 4 Mexico 2010 tournament, he eliminated Alexis in the 2nd Round!

    Kensou was also at this tournament, all you gotta do is look up my Battle 4 Mexico footage on my youtube account.
    **The KOF Cup 2011: March 10-14th, CDJ, Mexico w/Hummer from JAPAN!**
    **Mexico vs. Japan Part III!!**
  • nitro2345nitro2345 Joined: Posts: 43
    I'm talking about something in general, there will always be exceptions to the rule..but its something I've seen in my own personal shoes from being on the opposite side of the equation, the you know the guy hated and the people that talk behind others backs but vanish like ninjas when you put them to the fire, that other situation I told you about, so I am speaking in general terms etc and about mainly people here in the UNITED STATES.

    Not all the people are how I speak of, but I have seen a LOT of them that way...

    Plus different countries have different cultures etc and I have seen different attitudes in Mexico than I have in the USA, matter of fact the differences couldn't be anymore apparent, like night and day..which is a different topic altogether. So how about those Krauser nerfs in Final Edition everyone? LOL.

    Another person even in Juarez you aren't considering- Hugo. Hugo uses Terry, Andy, Joe, Benimaru! He Got Top 6 in the Battle 4 Mexico 2010 tournament, he eliminated Alexis in the 2nd Round!

    Kensou was also at this tournament, all you gotta do is look up my Battle 4 Mexico footage on my youtube account.

    lol yeah actually hugo is one of my favorites, I was going to mention him earlier but I forgot lol I have seen him owning wih ralf and kyo too, I would chek that out
  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    about the asians having the midas touch no , that's probably what people like emill thinks, but Mexico has proven them wrong

    And how has Mexico proven them wrong again?
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
  • nitro2345nitro2345 Joined: Posts: 43
    And how has Mexico proven them wrong again?

    how? beating the average japanese player that should have won if they really had that midas touch just by beign Japanese
  • necronomiCRONnecronomiCRON "IPPEN SHINU DE KOI! Joined: Posts: 109
    Dark Geese, not all Asian players have the Midas touch. No one is saying that all Asians are good at KoF. I think the claim, at least my claim, is that the best Asians play better than the best Mexicans. You're just so damn blind and ignorant to the facts.

    You're so stuck on Mexicans dicks, that you probably don't take the time to look at you tube footage of Asian tournaments. There isn't just GGPO videos, there's a myriad of good Asian tournaments that you're taking for granted. I can even tell you're one dimensional. I mean that Bata guy....sure he lost, but he's certainly not the best by any means.

    I thought a couple Mexicans were pretty damn good myself, but when I watched Dakou and Xiaohai play for the first time the only thing I could say was wow!
    "No I wanna know something from Mr. Panda Bear here, if you pandas are from mountainous areas of China and Tibet how come you eat bamboo which is prone to grow only in drier more arid regions"
  • rogueyoshirogueyoshi Nothing Comes Easy Joined: Posts: 1,929
    it amazes me how every thread in this forum ends up like this
    nignagnog: minority report
    nignagnog: you got punished for your future crimes
    BossG: anybody that's black already suffers under pre-crime laws
  • BloodyStagBloodyStag Not Bleeding Deer Joined: Posts: 100
    Can we refrain from bashing u.s players based on personal experience or past bad encounters. That's not the topic at hand

    Question is about what or where 98 final will be released. you're entitled to your own opinions about 98 UM or vanilla, whatever. there's a new rebalance coming out. Try actually playing the game before you decide on how stupid it is or etc etc.

    snk community will never grow if people keep dismissing games solely on speculation. There are games out there that are based or hae been based around tier lists surely, but you play the game and dissect it before lashing out about the quality. I could very easily say "Iori, Daimon, Chizaru are stupid. I don't like that characters, and I see them played a LOT so fuck that game" same deal with krauser, geese, same deal with gato, oswalkd, kula in 11, or billy, athena, choi in 2k2 or K,Kasumi, nameless in 2k2 um. or testament, slayer, eddie in ggac

    if you see other teams played, ignore the tiers. they're not there to guide you to who you're playing. infact most tier lists are based around either 1. What is played/seen the most or 2. Matchup charts.
    KOF 2k2 & KOF 11: Clark, Ramon Vanessa/Yuri
    Tatsunoko vs Capcom: Batsu, Morrigan.
    MBAC: Wallachia, Aoko, Miyako, Ciel.
    NGBC: King Lion, Lee/Iori
    ST:HD: Bison, Sagat
    LB2: Lee

    One day I'll learn more.
  • BiGGDaddyCaneBiGGDaddyCane ☵☳☷☵☴☵☳☲☷☵ Joined: Posts: 932
    it amazes me how every thread in this forum ends up like this

    Damn right,

    IMO

    I hate how some people look at the Koreans like when they play its a totally different game. A Korean Brain is no different from anybody else's any one can get on that skill level. Im looking forward to be on that skill level some day. Mexico is very much on there skill level they play the same damn game that the Koreans do. Same characters, same moves, SAME GAME PERIOD.


    The Game has been out for 8 - 10 Years or longer mostly everywhere. Im sure Mexico has been playing it for that long competitively,and sure Japan has been playing it for that long competitively. Therefore im pretty damn sure the Best and wise players from both countries know the same damn game in & out like the back of they hand. Im pretty sure both countries seen it all and done it all to the full by now.

    Therefore from the way I see it were no different from each other. Mexico and the Koreans competing together would just be some exciting & entertaining shit to see for the KOF community PERIOD.

    No one really has the upper hand here. Where all pretty much on the same playing field. Or until will get some KOF cup started like DG said to see who is really the best at the moment.

    I've watch the matches with the Japan & China players Xiaohai vs. Dakou. It look like the same old Iori, Damion, Kyo mixups and Mind-games thats been happening for some time now that I've seen everywhere else. Like Mexico and etc. & everywhere else were KOF is pushed to its limit and played at a high level competitively. Its nothing new. It just a good match fought out between two elite kof players THATS IT.

    At the end of the day I wish certain people can stop swinging from Korean ball sacks and realize many people are playing at there level this time in age not just them. The game been out for ages yall. Be Real...Many people we probably don't even know could be playing it competitively at its full potential by now like the Koreans. Some people need to stop contradicting there selfs and look at the bigger picture.

    BTW this thread is way of topic lmao
    " I'll stain my hands with your blood - Geese "
    KOF 98 Slugfest Dream Match Never Ends
  • Dark GeeseDark Geese Joined: Posts: 12,439
    Necro-Wrong wrong wrong again son. I remember every argument you guys have given me, since the beginning with astonishment that Mexicans even can compete with the Japanese etc, and NOW finally, you guys are changing your TUNE saying that its now the Best Mexicans vs. the Best Asians..That means I have succeeded if you guys are changing your tune, so now time to keep you guys opening your minds, because prior to what I did trust me people like you, Emil and everyone was shitting on the Mexicans as having NO CHANCE against the Japanese etc and everyone in this room knows I speak the truth.

    You guys are changing your argument midstream. My argument has been the same and still is: and my argument is you do not know who is the best until they play, be it Koreans, Brazilians, Mexicans, Japanese, etc, people need to realize across the world as BDC said, there are people playing at a high level just as good if not better than these people across the world be it Asians or what-have-you esp in KOF, KOF is the most played fighting game in the world...

    My job is to open doors and show people that they live in a bubble. If the Mexicans lose to Hummer guess what? That still benefits ME..why? Because that makes the Mexico vs. Japan war STRONG, it then really gets people talking. Either way it benefits ME, that's also something you guys fail to see, the very idea that you are in here talking about it means I HAVE SUCCEEDED, you are talking about something I am RUNNING/SETTING UP! There is a saying "Any type of publicity is GOOD PUBLICITY."'

    For me who wins be it Mexican, Japanese, Brazilian I can live with, that is what you guys miss. I give people the CHANCE to prove themselves, I hype them up, I give them the spotlight, IT IS THEN THAT THEY MUST PROVE THEMSELVES.

    So it's not me dick riding, I believe everyone has a shot, and Mexico better be on guard in Peru, because Peru wants a chance to prove their worth, that is what I am all about man, if anyone has been riding stuff it's been you guys riding the Japanese, all I am is Don King remember that, I hype things up, I create controversy, excitement, and it is UP TO THE PLAYERS TO PLAY AND WIN..I do not have anything to do with that, I give them the stage, the respect, the chance they want, IT IS UP TO THEM TO PLAY.

    But with that said I do ENJOY proving you guys wrong, you all use online as your Holy Bible to say Japan> than the world, and I am using offline to get you guys changing your story to what it is now, which is "The Best Mexicans vs. the Best Asians."

    God is my witness people that was NOT the argument this past January/February, or hell pre-2010...and that is my point..that means I have opened eyes which means SUCCESS.
    **The KOF Cup 2011: March 10-14th, CDJ, Mexico w/Hummer from JAPAN!**
    **Mexico vs. Japan Part III!!**
  • RemxiRemxi Mithan's Robe Joined: Posts: 297
    Will you fucking clowns keep your stupid pissing contest in one thread? I'm sick of reading this shit in what should be a thread discussing 98UMFE.
  • necronomiCRONnecronomiCRON "IPPEN SHINU DE KOI! Joined: Posts: 109
    I think what I posted goes without saying. You really expect us to believe that ALL Asians are capable of defeating the mexicans in KoF. Of course we're talking about the best players. You really think we'd be retarded enough to think an Asian that doesn't play the game enough has a chance of winning? Maybe we should be more explicit so you can actually comprehend something......

    Anyway I've broken the rules in this thread enough. The title is "KOF 98UM Final Edition?". Get back to actually talking about the topic at hand.
    "No I wanna know something from Mr. Panda Bear here, if you pandas are from mountainous areas of China and Tibet how come you eat bamboo which is prone to grow only in drier more arid regions"
  • Dark GeeseDark Geese Joined: Posts: 12,439
    Necro- That is what was coming from you guys corner a year ago and even in the past, what I am saying is you guys have changed your tune and you aren't even admitting it, which is fine with me, it's like what happens if Hummer loses? Let me tell you what is going to happen, you guys still are going to come up with some excuse to NOT give anything I say credit and that is how it is always going to continue, that is how it has always been in the past and that is my point, I prove you guys wrong and you all just get silent and not give any credit to what I say...that's the main point here. Now enough of this we can always take this to the Online Thread as I am going to..back to 98UMFE.
    **The KOF Cup 2011: March 10-14th, CDJ, Mexico w/Hummer from JAPAN!**
    **Mexico vs. Japan Part III!!**
  • Lord_RaptorLord_Raptor Joined: Posts: 8,810
    Jesus fucking christ, shut the fuck up no one cares anymore about these pissing contest. And didn't you say you were done with SRK??
    Are you right? Are you READY!?
  • BiGGDaddyCaneBiGGDaddyCane ☵☳☷☵☴☵☳☲☷☵ Joined: Posts: 932
    Fucking Japan Testicle Swingers are ridiculous. Keep thinking what yall wana think. Mexico players clearly proven they play on the same level japan does if you would just open your eyes, DG know this personally.

    Game been out for over a decade in Japan and Mexico, and Proven to be played at its extreme limit competitively by top players from both. It an EVEN match foreal no ones better PERIOD leave it at that. Where fighting amongst ourselves.

    However, Some still think for some mystical reason Mexico is the underdog of Japan cause of what little we see in Videos and Etc.... When both Japan & Mexico Top players skills are reasonably equal nether the less if you weren't so stubborn & could get the full picture.

    But whatever....Keep Swinging stay impassive in yall mind and believe what misinterpreted nonsense yall wana believe.


    Thats all i gotta say. Now =) hope we can talk about something else in this forum instead of tiers list that don't generally matter, and get some actual info about this Ultimate Match Final Edition, Cause im Pumped for it. Im gonna be searching for info constantly when i can, about UM Final edition. I hope others do to and keep us updated with the latest news for KOF UM :FE Please. Anyways Get HYPE:woot:
    " I'll stain my hands with your blood - Geese "
    KOF 98 Slugfest Dream Match Never Ends
  • Dark GeeseDark Geese Joined: Posts: 12,439
    Raptor what I am doing right now is all a part of the big plan, what I am doing even right now on SRK benefits my tournament in March, I am basically here to hype up my tournament in March...by any means necessary. I'm here raising awareness for it, then I am going to dissappear until it gets closer to tournament time then I will be back..it's all strategic my friend! =)

    Now I hope 98FE is out by the time of the tournament, but they are talking about it's release date being Winter of 2011, which should that be the date it better be a sufficient update, not like Tougeki of 2002 UM, it had better have more characters (Angel lololol) more changes, drastic tweaks, buffs to some characters the WORKS...
    **The KOF Cup 2011: March 10-14th, CDJ, Mexico w/Hummer from JAPAN!**
    **Mexico vs. Japan Part III!!**
  • Lord_RaptorLord_Raptor Joined: Posts: 8,810
    I have no problem with you hypeing up your tournament but do that and the online arguing int he threads meant for it. And change wise other than maybe adding some more people in I acn't think of anything that really needs to be done other than toning Krauser down a bit, increasing Recovery on Reppuken for EX Geese slightly, and buffs for some of the lower characters. One thing I'm wondering is if things like Kim's stomp glitch will be removed or not.
    Are you right? Are you READY!?
  • Dark GeeseDark Geese Joined: Posts: 12,439
    I have no problem with you hypeing up your tournament but do that and the online arguing int he threads meant for it. And change wise other than maybe adding some more people in I acn't think of anything that really needs to be done other than toning Krauser down a bit, increasing Recovery on Reppuken for EX Geese slightly, and buffs for some of the lower characters. One thing I'm wondering is if things like Kim's stomp glitch will be removed or not.

    I actually have been trying to redirect this online talking for a while LOL if you look back in these threads but the people just keep on going and going and going so I wait for a stopping point and now I have already 100% taken it to the online threads so we can talk about the game at hand.

    I agree EX Geese's Reppuken needs to be toned down, if not that then tone down his far st.C and his cr.C. You can see here Kula plays him straight up and it is super annoying the way he plays him: (To get on topic and keep it that way)



    Also I think Krausers qcb-f+k grab should have longer recovery, Krauser's Deadly Rave should be more punishable, and reduce Krauser's damage overall. Now I am not one to complain or whine about characters, tiers, any of that, I deal with it, but since we are talking about what should be toned down etc I thought I would contribute and give my input into it as well as post why showing those videos.

    And yes, Kula is a fucking monster in 98UM....xD
    **The KOF Cup 2011: March 10-14th, CDJ, Mexico w/Hummer from JAPAN!**
    **Mexico vs. Japan Part III!!**
  • Da BoogeymanDa Boogeyman Joined: Posts: 2,292
    Just wished they'd port it to PS3, best game ever
  • Dark GeeseDark Geese Joined: Posts: 12,439
    Just wished they'd port it to PS3, best game ever

    They could, if Sony let them, but Sony doesnt like games that don't have SFIV esque pretty graphics lol.
    **The KOF Cup 2011: March 10-14th, CDJ, Mexico w/Hummer from JAPAN!**
    **Mexico vs. Japan Part III!!**
  • CiberneticoCibernetico Joined: Posts: 307
    Just saw an interview with Steve Harrison and he asked about Final Edition. The guy doing the interview said that FE will have around 10 new characters. Does anyone know where he got this information from cause I've yet to see any kind of info regarding any new character additions to this game.
  • Dark GeeseDark Geese Joined: Posts: 12,439
    Just saw an interview with Steve Harrison and he asked about Final Edition. The guy doing the interview said that FE will have around 10 new characters. Does anyone know where he got this information from cause I've yet to see any kind of info regarding any new character additions to this game.

    According to some background info I have dug up, that isn't necessarily the case. The number of characters if there going to be any is undecided at this time right now...

    So the ten characters is something I have determined is unfounded..
    **The KOF Cup 2011: March 10-14th, CDJ, Mexico w/Hummer from JAPAN!**
    **Mexico vs. Japan Part III!!**
  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    how? beating the average japanese player that should have won if they really had that midas touch just by beign Japanese

    Who? Danke? They had a lot of trouble beating him...his gameplay (from the videos uploaded) was on par or better than most of those mexicans, but I didn't see him vs. Kula.
    And yes, Kula is a fucking monster in 98UM....xD

    He's ok...sorry but he'd get slaughtered by the majority of the average kof98UM players in Japan, no question about it...nevermind players like Naruto, MAX, 777, etc.
    Fucking Japan Testicle Swingers are ridiculous. Keep thinking what yall wana think. Mexico players clearly proven they play on the same level japan does if you would just open your eyes, DG know this personally.

    Lol, no, you don't know anything....especially if you're talking about kof98UM, there's absolutely no way you can equate Mexico to be on the level of Japan. Trying to put an end to the argument by saying they are equal is bad.
    I hate how some people look at the Koreans like when they play its a totally different game. A Korean Brain is no different from anybody else's any one can get on that skill level. Im looking forward to be on that skill level some day. Mexico is very much on there skill level they play the same damn game that the Koreans do. Same characters, same moves, SAME GAME PERIOD.


    The Game has been out for 8 - 10 Years or longer mostly everywhere. Im sure Mexico has been playing it for that long competitively,and sure Japan has been playing it for that long competitively. Therefore im pretty damn sure the Best and wise players from both countries know the same damn game in & out like the back of they hand. Im pretty sure both countries seen it all and done it all to the full by now.

    Therefore from the way I see it were no different from each other. Mexico and the Koreans competing together would just be some exciting & entertaining shit to see for the KOF community PERIOD.

    No one really has the upper hand here. Where all pretty much on the same playing field. Or until will get some KOF cup started like DG said to see who is really the best at the moment.

    I've watch the matches with the Japan & China players Xiaohai vs. Dakou. It look like the same old Iori, Damion, Kyo mixups and Mind-games thats been happening for some time now that I've seen everywhere else. Like Mexico and etc. & everywhere else were KOF is pushed to its limit and played at a high level competitively. Its nothing new. It just a good match fought out between two elite kof players THATS IT.

    Please please stop, you don't know anything about playstyles, metagames, kof in general. It's very clear. You aren't on the level to notice any sort of major or minor intracacies in a player's choices, nor do you even know the limits that these games can be pushed to.
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
  • Dark GeeseDark Geese Joined: Posts: 12,439
    Emil and everyone else, just FYI, we have taken this discussion to the online thread my friend, so unless it's related to the game at hand, please don't discuss it here, I know you are just getting in late my friend, but I wanna make sure now that everyone stays on the topic at hand because it's been hard enough to divert it to the online thread.

    Now ontopic, do I think Kula would lose to those players right now in 98UM? Probably so, there are games he is stronger in I think like 2002 UM and other games, not to mention according to those in Mexico, there are stronger players like Caras in 98 than Kula, so there is a lot to unfold depending. But do I think Kula would beat damn near anyone from the USA up through Canada in 98 with ease? Yes.
    **The KOF Cup 2011: March 10-14th, CDJ, Mexico w/Hummer from JAPAN!**
    **Mexico vs. Japan Part III!!**
  • AnakronAnakron Alpha Male Joined: Posts: 2,391
    Discussion? You mean beating of the dead horse, right?
    #SNKPlaymore on rizon
    isn't it funny that capcom put a mechanic called focus into a game designed for people with ADD
  • BiGGDaddyCaneBiGGDaddyCane ☵☳☷☵☴☵☳☲☷☵ Joined: Posts: 932

    Emil a rumor that that 10 new characters could be in final edition should be any KOF fan main attention right now. I dont give a damn about your bias opinions any more emil. This is not the place to be arguing about this meaningless conflict anyway as said many time before where being inconsiderate about the topic of this forum.

    Arguing about who is better or worse when both of the best from both countries have not even officially competed against each other. Where stating opinions and not facts, and arguing of opinions is meaningless (Therefore I dont give a damn about what your personally think anymore, you know why because its "What you personally think" Keep Swinging. And if you have solid facts this ain't the forum for it).


    I wana know more info about this 10 characters. Thats what up, if its true then its really gonna change the game. Thank for the info ciber.:woot:
    " I'll stain my hands with your blood - Geese "
    KOF 98 Slugfest Dream Match Never Ends
  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    Emil and everyone else, just FYI, we have taken this discussion to the online thread my friend, so unless it's related to the game at hand, please don't discuss it here, I know you are just getting in late my friend, but I wanna make sure now that everyone stays on the topic at hand because it's been hard enough to divert it to the online thread.

    I didn't want to have this discussion here, but it's really hard to ignore a post as bad as his.
    Now ontopic, do I think Kula would lose to those players right now in 98UM? Probably so, there are games he is stronger in I think like 2002 UM and other games, not to mention according to those in Mexico, there are stronger players like Caras in 98 than Kula, so there is a lot to unfold depending. But do I think Kula would beat damn near anyone from the USA up through Canada in 98 with ease? Yes.

    Yes, he'd beat pretty much anyone in the US/Canada...except maybe some Chinese living here, but I haven't really seen their 98UM skills.
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
  • Dark GeeseDark Geese Joined: Posts: 12,439
    I didn't want to have this discussion here, but it's really hard to ignore a post as bad as his.



    Yes, he'd beat pretty much anyone in the US/Canada...except maybe some Chinese living here, but I haven't really seen their 98UM skills.

    I'd also actually take Kula over Bata in 98UM, and reason for that being is that Kula handles pressure better than Bata does, when under stress Kula doesn't flinch, but Bata was getting very frustrated too easily, to the point where we had to tell him to relax, like "It's okay man, just relax, calm down."

    In November the Kula-Bata Challenge would be interesting to see. Plus I think all I need to do is motivate Kula and he will train hardcore in 98UM, if I tell him Bata who was #30 in 98UM last time I heard is coming, Kula will train very hard in 98UM...
    **The KOF Cup 2011: March 10-14th, CDJ, Mexico w/Hummer from JAPAN!**
    **Mexico vs. Japan Part III!!**
  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,389
    I'd also actually take Kula over Bata in 98UM, and reason for that being is that Kula handles pressure better than Bata does, when under stress Kula doesn't flinch, but Bata was getting very frustrated too easily, to the point where we had to tell him to relax, like "It's okay man, just relax, calm down."

    Nah...I'm sure would act the same when his controls are not responding as intended...as would I.
    Arguing about who is better or worse when both of the best from both countries have not even officially competed against each other. Where stating opinions and not facts, and arguing of opinions is meaningless

    What opinions? The matches are right there, the gameplay is shown in clear view. And lol @ being hypocritical...where did you get your ideas that they are equal in skill level? Supposedly the same source I did...only difference is one of us doesn't understand what he's watching.

    Bottom line is, you don't understand the metagames and the basis for the choices players make, not to mention the limits of the games. If you did, you would see a pretty clear difference between Mexican kof98/kof98UM and Japanese...man even one of the main Mexican people involved in these discussions, says Dakou and Xiaohai would kill everyone in Mexico in kof98 if they came.

    You know what? I think that if I came on GGPO and beat you badly, you would probably think I'm on the same level as those elites.
    KoF98UM - EX Yama, Eiji, Orochi Yashiro | KoF2k2 - Kim, Whip, Athena, Choi |
    Kof13 - Saiki, Shen, Vice | P4U2 - Shadow Labrys, Rise | GGXrd - Bedman
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