Sailor Moon S - Arcana Heart? We know thee not. The All-Girls Fighter of kings.

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Comments

  • zenzenzenzen キムチ悪い Joined: Posts: 3,488
    Finally played some of this tonight. So good.

    Jupiter feels like Zangief on crack. Sucks that lariat doesn't go through all projectiles (makes Uranus and Mars really annoying to fight), but her projectile game is pretty good, 360 hurts (and guard cancel, this fucking game), and if you can hit that crossup j.hk, that's 75% of your health gone. Thunder Dragon is cool, but it seems like you can't hurt before the beginning of the round, hurting some of its viability.

    Mars is pretty cool. Two projectiles and an easy bnb work together well. Easier to play than Jupiter.
    <dominos> what 2d isn't real?
    <AlterGenesis-X> my world is over
    <Stabby> "come back when you lose a few dimensions"
  • Missing PersonMissing Person Givin' dat ho ho ho dem eyes. Joined: Posts: 13,702
    Not just Uranus and Mars. Neptune's projectile also falls into her hurtbox when it hooks low.

    And charge moves don't charge before the round starts with anyone. I think this really only effects Jupiter, Mercury, and Venus. I think those are the only charge moves in the game, but I can't remember. This is less of a problem if you learn how to cancel her air projectile off backdash. That is a great mechanic in this game that can really only be abused by Moon and Jupiter.

    Also, Jupiter's lariat is fun to apply wakeup pressure with. Especially in the corner. LK version does decent chip.
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  • AlzarathAlzarath Remember, salt is part of a balanced diet. Joined: Posts: 3,536
    Holy shit how have I NEVER seen this fucking thread.

    I went in pretty hard on this when my friends played :D

    Neptune is gdlk. Walk up throw/dp mixup all dayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
    "For the amount of new players who play FGs, you won’t see nearly enough new talent in top 8s. This is because too many people are bitches." - Aris

    PSN: not_alzarath (East Coast) | @AlzarathEX
  • Missing PersonMissing Person Givin' dat ho ho ho dem eyes. Joined: Posts: 13,702
    Holy shit how have I NEVER seen this fucking thread.

    I went in pretty hard on this when my friends played :D

    Neptune is gdlk. Walk up throw/dp mixup all dayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
    Wow, you pretty much spelled out my strat with Neptune. That and WW-style LP fireball trapping.

    She's not even my main though, or at least I don't consider her to be, but she's brutal when played right.
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  • AlzarathAlzarath Remember, salt is part of a balanced diet. Joined: Posts: 3,536
    The best part is you can kinda just ignore guard cancels from most of the cast ^_^ the only ones that can potentially blow you up imo are Mars/Jupiter
    "For the amount of new players who play FGs, you won’t see nearly enough new talent in top 8s. This is because too many people are bitches." - Aris

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  • Missing PersonMissing Person Givin' dat ho ho ho dem eyes. Joined: Posts: 13,702
    I must be missing guard cancels in my play. Going to have to work on that, I don't think i fully grasped they were there. Time to hit the lab.
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  • AlzarathAlzarath Remember, salt is part of a balanced diet. Joined: Posts: 3,536
    GCs are amazing for some chars (top 3 lol), not so much for others :/

    gc backdash is universally good, but you can get blown up for abusing it.

    A lot of my matches are just me getting a kd and doing stuff to bait them (short strings, whiffed normals, etc)
    "For the amount of new players who play FGs, you won’t see nearly enough new talent in top 8s. This is because too many people are bitches." - Aris

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  • AlzarathAlzarath Remember, salt is part of a balanced diet. Joined: Posts: 3,536
    My opinion as to why Uranus is low tier:

    - Doesn't have much in the way of mixup

    - fireball game isn't terribly scary

    - having a forward dash (gc baits yayyyyy, fullscreen grabs yayyyyy) is nice until the other guy realizes he can hit you out of it on reaction (awwww)

    The infinite is pretty much her selling point. Otherwise there's not much reason to play her when other chars can do what she does much better.
    "For the amount of new players who play FGs, you won’t see nearly enough new talent in top 8s. This is because too many people are bitches." - Aris

    PSN: not_alzarath (East Coast) | @AlzarathEX
  • Missing PersonMissing Person Givin' dat ho ho ho dem eyes. Joined: Posts: 13,702
    GCs are amazing for some chars (top 3 lol), not so much for others :/

    gc backdash is universally good, but you can get blown up for abusing it.

    A lot of my matches are just me getting a kd and doing stuff to bait them (short strings, whiffed normals, etc)

    Backdash cancelling out of sweeps also isn't too bad a technique...to a point. Until people anticipate it, and throw out projectiles to punish. But that in itself isn't anything to worry about with Sailor Moon or Jupiter if you can cancel your air projectiles out of backdash. Jupiter's HP air projectile is a move I rarely use for offense when I play her as much as I do as a "get out of getting hit by a projectile" move.

    Of course, Sailor Mars tends to like that.

    And that's actually a pretty fair analysis on Uranus. Usually what I see out of Uranus is baits to set up the infinite, and that's about it.
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  • zenzenzenzen キムチ悪い Joined: Posts: 3,488
    Not just Uranus and Mars. Neptune's projectile also falls into her hurtbox when it hooks low.

    And charge moves don't charge before the round starts with anyone. I think this really only effects Jupiter, Mercury, and Venus. I think those are the only charge moves in the game, but I can't remember. This is less of a problem if you learn how to cancel her air projectile off backdash. That is a great mechanic in this game that can really only be abused by Moon and Jupiter.

    Also, Jupiter's lariat is fun to apply wakeup pressure with. Especially in the corner. LK version does decent chip.

    I was doing backdash xx Coconut Cyclone in the first 5 minutes. Still a little annoying for me to get out, but I can do it on a decently consistent basis. Jupiter lariat is dumb, are both versions completely safe on block?
    <dominos> what 2d isn't real?
    <AlterGenesis-X> my world is over
    <Stabby> "come back when you lose a few dimensions"
  • Missing PersonMissing Person Givin' dat ho ho ho dem eyes. Joined: Posts: 13,702
    I would say no, but it's been a bit since I've played. LK is for sure. HK does a decent enough amount of pushback that if you hit with it early, that it's punishable.

    As a general rule, heavy specials are pretty bad recovery wise, which, save for a select few moves in a select few situations, makes them not very viable at all. Like using Jupiter or Mercury's charge projectile on HP at all is just a waste. I'd also lump Neptune's & Venus's projectile in here. I think Mercury's TK HP projectile can also suffer from this, but it still has uses as AA.

    Ones that definitely have their uses are:

    Jupiter's command grab
    Jupiter's lariat
    Jupiter's air to ground (but not so much offensively)
    Mercury's SBK
    Mars's projectiles.
    MAYBE Moon's air projectiles. (I think so, but I can't remember)
    Neptune's DP
    Venus's ground to air projectile

    I haven't really played with Pluto, Uranus, or Chibimoon yet, so I have no clue about any of their moves yet.
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  • zenzenzenzen キムチ悪い Joined: Posts: 3,488
    Mars' heavy flip kick seems good. Feels like it sometimes doesn't combo from c.lk x2 though.
    <dominos> what 2d isn't real?
    <AlterGenesis-X> my world is over
    <Stabby> "come back when you lose a few dimensions"
  • Missing PersonMissing Person Givin' dat ho ho ho dem eyes. Joined: Posts: 13,702
    IIRC it's really unsafe on block. I'm pretty sure it does combo, but that and as an occasional AA is the best uses for it.
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  • zenzenzenzen キムチ悪い Joined: Posts: 3,488
    Yeah, it is extremely unsafe. Still good to combo off c.hp or something.
    <dominos> what 2d isn't real?
    <AlterGenesis-X> my world is over
    <Stabby> "come back when you lose a few dimensions"
  • AlzarathAlzarath Remember, salt is part of a balanced diet. Joined: Posts: 3,536
    Iirc her bnb is c.lk x3, s.hk xx qcb+hk (another reason the tops are good- their enders all knockdown and do good dmg, so they don't have to sacrifice dmg/oki)

    IMO her most reliable AA is s.hp. It's active for a while and will beat a lot of air normals.
    "For the amount of new players who play FGs, you won’t see nearly enough new talent in top 8s. This is because too many people are bitches." - Aris

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  • PsychobluePsychoblue the Conductor of the Hype Train Joined: Posts: 2,279
    As soon as I"m done with student teaching, I might join you guys in the festivities.
  • AlzarathAlzarath Remember, salt is part of a balanced diet. Joined: Posts: 3,536
    Hella boring day, so I thought I'd do this.

    Keep in mind, I don't consider myself THE authority on this game, there may be things I'm overlooking. This is largely what I've seen/experienced. I may be judging some chars too harshly, others too favorably. I think this is fairly accurate though.

    Lastly, everyone aside from Pluto/Chibi is viable, and even those two have *something* going for them (even if it results from bad situations).

    That said...

    Jupiter
    + lariat, guard cancel 360 make it nigh impossible to jump in on her. guard cancel 360 will also destroy badly spaced normals
    + strong keepaway w/ thunder dragon and coconut cyclone
    + high damage off lariat combos w/ resets into 360
    + strong oki

    - slow normals/walkspeed (this is negligible, you wont be playing footsies too much)
    - super isnt very good (damaging, but slow startup/recovery, no invul... honestly you can just forget this exists)

    Mars
    + 2 of the best, if not THE best projectiles in the game. fire snake (ground fb) is fast, recovers quick, knocks down. burning mandala (aa fb) travels at an angle that can be difficult to jump over. this pretty much makes her the #1 zoner imo.
    + good walkspeed, fast normals
    + damaging bnb
    + can easily corner trap people w/ fire snake
    + super does good damage even on block, can confuse people (looks like fire snake, but starts travelling upward)

    - gc is kinda meh

    Neptune
    + jab dp is hilariously hard to stop/punish. just do it.
    + good, safe oki
    + decent fb, not as good as mars though
    + good range on normals, decently fast

    - has problems w/ the above two chars (gets fb trapped very easily vs mars, has a little trouble getting around jupiter's fbs)

    Mercury:
    + fastest character, has one of the better footsie games
    + pretty good dp, though neptune's is better
    + has two fbs that function similarly to mars (again, not quite as good)
    + has a wall jump

    - super is kind of awkward to use

    Moon:
    + far jump combined w/ dash canceled air fb gives her a pretty decent left/right game... probably her best aspect.

    - short range on normals
    - only really gets decent damage in the corner

    Venus:
    + good reach on chain attacks
    + good dp
    + multiple fbs etc. see above.

    - chains are fairly laggy
    - air to air is meh
    - painfully slow movement

    Uranus:
    + has an infinite (!!!)
    + has a forward dash

    - fb game is kinda poor
    - infinite is hard to set up, a lot of gc baiting etc is needed to land a clean hit
    - forward dash can be reacted to. blindly charging at your opponent will get you killed.

    Pluto:
    + her super ranks among the best in the game. safe on block, can be canceled into, can be used as a ghetto forward dash... it has many useful applications.

    - lp fb does not go fullscreen, hp fb only covers the space in front of her. don't expect to win fb wars too often.
    - laggy normals
    - only really becomes a threat at low hp

    Chibi-Moon:
    + useful super (good chip dmg, covers the battlefield, once she gets started its almost impossible to move forward against her)
    + dives/instant overhead give her a decent mixup game
    + uhhh... she's moe? :3

    - laughable range/speed on normals
    - terrible fb, you wont win fb wars. ever.
    "For the amount of new players who play FGs, you won’t see nearly enough new talent in top 8s. This is because too many people are bitches." - Aris

    PSN: not_alzarath (East Coast) | @AlzarathEX
  • Missing PersonMissing Person Givin' dat ho ho ho dem eyes. Joined: Posts: 13,702
    I pretty much agree with everything. Good write up, I'd also mention Mercury has a pretty decent damage handicap.
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  • mynusmynus Shinnei... Joined: Posts: 71
    Jesus i miss this game...cant wait to play this with you Alz and the other guys when I get back to the US. So much fun. That write up is the authority, should front page that shit.
    Defeat? I ain't scared of defeat! Even if it
    happens, I won't notice...Cause I'll be too busy lookin' good!
  • Missing PersonMissing Person Givin' dat ho ho ho dem eyes. Joined: Posts: 13,702
    I agree. I'm still working on my FAQ. Alzarath, do you mind if I use that, and give you credits?
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  • mysticspheremysticsphere Lover of Cakes Joined: Posts: 746
    I wish I could like this whole thread . . .

    Never thought I'd see the day that people would seriously be discussing the nuances of Sailor Moon S on snes. Glad to see Neptune is top tier in this game, she's my favorite!

    Chibi being ass tier is to be expected.
  • Missing PersonMissing Person Givin' dat ho ho ho dem eyes. Joined: Posts: 13,702
    I wish I could like this whole thread . . .

    Never thought I'd see the day that people would seriously be discussing the nuances of Sailor Moon S on snes. Glad to see Neptune is top tier in this game, she's my favorite!

    Chibi being ass tier is to be expected.
    Me either, but then I had to create this thread. This game is so addicted.

    And I added Alzarath's character rankings to OP.
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  • AlzarathAlzarath Remember, salt is part of a balanced diet. Joined: Posts: 3,536
    I agree. I'm still working on my FAQ. Alzarath, do you mind if I use that, and give you credits?

    go right ahead.
    Jesus i miss this game...cant wait to play this with you Alz and the other guys when I get back to the US. So much fun. That write up is the authority, should front page that shit.

    yo chaaazzzzzzz

    we gotta crack it out when you're back in the US.

    miss you <3
    "For the amount of new players who play FGs, you won’t see nearly enough new talent in top 8s. This is because too many people are bitches." - Aris

    PSN: not_alzarath (East Coast) | @AlzarathEX
  • CorenCoren Sponsored By CrossXoveR Joined: Posts: 395
    http://db.tt/lvd4OOdj

    I made a spreadsheet with my translation of the matcbup chart from japan.

    Jupiter is godtier
    Neptune mars mercury and moon are high

    Jupiter just has all the tools in the game and back turn light lariat combos do 100% off of any crossup you land.

    Neptune has the best DP, and her super dp will do 70% life on counterhit, making it the best and most reliable big punish in the game.

    Mars has sickingly good fireball lockdown and can confirm into her HK flipkick off anything for good knockdown and oki.

    Mercury has the best LK and decent fireball and reversal options

    Moon is the most mobile character and gets some pretty sick keepaway and mixups off doing air hearts during her dashes.

    Venus has chain into up fireball lockdown, the up fireballs are insanely good and give you sickening plus frames on hit and block. You can link multiple of them in a combo and do her desperation move after one if you input it fast enough, giving venus access to the most reliable 100% DM combos. Also venus love me chain is a decent reversal tool. J7.HP is a pretty sick instant overhead. And up fireball into walkup throw/love me chain is sick.

    Pluto is worthless without her DM, it recovers superfast on whiff giving her forward dash capabilities, and DM whiff cancel combos which can actually do some sick damage if you have the execution. DM whiff leads into sick pressure and mixups too, but you need to lose 50% of your life for pluto to start being a real character, making her have a lot of uphill battles.

    The reason Uranus is lowtier despite her godlike training mode status is that her DC lockdown gets blownup by GCs, her fireball sucks ass, her forward dash has a super long duration and isn't invincible, and her normals aren't all that. You can shutdown her forward dash BS with a wellplaced fireball or LK and keep her out all day. But if she gets in she can infinite you so her matchups are all sorts of wonky. Bitch can't do shit versus fireballs that travel over uranus world shaking.

    Don't play Chibi moon. Well ok, her DM leads to decent fullscreen chip setups, but that is a lot of chip you're going to have to deal in order to win.

    I wrote this all out on my phone so it probably looks like shit, but there you go, my knowledge on the tiers from memory.
    <deadfrog> Fun exercise: if you make a list of every single fighting game you would feel ashamed to play in front of your dad, you'll notice that Coren plays all of those games. Which is commendable.
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  • Missing PersonMissing Person Givin' dat ho ho ho dem eyes. Joined: Posts: 13,702
    Coren, really glad I made you aware of this thread, added that stuff to the OP.
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  • AlzarathAlzarath Remember, salt is part of a balanced diet. Joined: Posts: 3,536
    Just to add, Neptune can also instant overhead w/ j.lk.

    Ahhh Neptune why are you so good lol
    "For the amount of new players who play FGs, you won’t see nearly enough new talent in top 8s. This is because too many people are bitches." - Aris

    PSN: not_alzarath (East Coast) | @AlzarathEX
  • Missing PersonMissing Person Givin' dat ho ho ho dem eyes. Joined: Posts: 13,702
    Just to add, Neptune can also instant overhead w/ j.lk.

    Ahhh Neptune why are you so good lol
    For real?

    Gah, I want my joystick fixed so I can hop on emu to try all this new info out.
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  • Master_ChibiMaster_Chibi .: Dynamites! :. Joined: Posts: 15,043 mod
    Just to add, Neptune can also instant overhead w/ j.lk.

    Ahhh Neptune why are you so good lol

    Someone better bring this shit to NL today.
    ~*Hai! Back to Japan!
  • Missing PersonMissing Person Givin' dat ho ho ho dem eyes. Joined: Posts: 13,702
    Get that game on stream too, real talk.
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  • Spirit JuiceSpirit Juice 「HATES EVERYTHING」 Joined: Posts: 14,764 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    We might stream a dollar tournament for this game two weeks for now. I'll keep you guys posted. ;)
  • AlzarathAlzarath Remember, salt is part of a balanced diet. Joined: Posts: 3,536
    Sup. This friday evening we are having a Sailor Moon exhibition @ Next Level Arcade.

    http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/nov-25-2011-skillionaire-fighting-8-5-brooklyn-ny.149678/
    "For the amount of new players who play FGs, you won’t see nearly enough new talent in top 8s. This is because too many people are bitches." - Aris

    PSN: not_alzarath (East Coast) | @AlzarathEX
  • Missing PersonMissing Person Givin' dat ho ho ho dem eyes. Joined: Posts: 13,702
    What time? I'll try to tune in if you can get it streamed.
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  • AlzarathAlzarath Remember, salt is part of a balanced diet. Joined: Posts: 3,536
    7:30 PM EST. It will most likely be streamed.

    http://twitch.tv/min2012 Keep an eye out!
    "For the amount of new players who play FGs, you won’t see nearly enough new talent in top 8s. This is because too many people are bitches." - Aris

    PSN: not_alzarath (East Coast) | @AlzarathEX
  • zenzenzenzen キムチ悪い Joined: Posts: 3,488
    And then no one showed up.

    :(
    <dominos> what 2d isn't real?
    <AlterGenesis-X> my world is over
    <Stabby> "come back when you lose a few dimensions"
  • mugenmidgetmugenmidget The intruder will not elude me. Joined: Posts: 62
    Damn. :( I was looking forward to it.
    Multi Tap Classic Console Showcase, multiplayer retro gaming streams and more! Follow our channel to find out when we're live: http://www.justin.tv/mugenmidget
  • zenzenzenzen キムチ悪い Joined: Posts: 3,488


    MOV playing some SMS
    <dominos> what 2d isn't real?
    <AlterGenesis-X> my world is over
    <Stabby> "come back when you lose a few dimensions"
  • DramatixDramatix Could be better. Joined: Posts: 4,476
    I didn't expect my favorite Senshi to be god-tier, nor a Sailor Moon thread on Shoryuken.
    "Everyone in here has had someone who tried to convince them that they were sexually harassed, and you did not believe them because they were not cute."
  • orochi1017orochi1017 Cult of Personality Joined: Posts: 912
    I learned this game past weekend. Learned some Uranus minus infinite cause my text answer wasn't delivered till 4 AM lol. Gonna try to learn Venus later too.
    It's DaiAndOh or just Dai
    "The purpose of striking a pose is not to become like a wallpaper. That's why we chant loudly when we pose, to draw attention to our magnificence."
  • zenzenzenzen キムチ悪い Joined: Posts: 3,488
    Anyone up for some netplay this weekend?

    Snes9k seems to have the best netplay for SNES.
    <dominos> what 2d isn't real?
    <AlterGenesis-X> my world is over
    <Stabby> "come back when you lose a few dimensions"
  • Missing PersonMissing Person Givin' dat ho ho ho dem eyes. Joined: Posts: 13,702
    If I can fix my stick so at least my Cthulhu works, I think so.

    No guarantees on how good a connection we'll get, but I'd be up to try.
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  • Blood FeastBlood Feast h8 Joined: Posts: 139
    Evo side tournament?
  • orochi1017orochi1017 Cult of Personality Joined: Posts: 912
    We had an 8 person tourny in NY. Godly. Vids later.
    It's DaiAndOh or just Dai
    "The purpose of striking a pose is not to become like a wallpaper. That's why we chant loudly when we pose, to draw attention to our magnificence."
  • Missing PersonMissing Person Givin' dat ho ho ho dem eyes. Joined: Posts: 13,702
    We had an 8 person tourny in NY. Godly. Vids later.
    I want to multiaccount just to like this more.

    Sent from China using CHINGCHONGWINGWONGTINGTONGtalk.
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  • orochi1017orochi1017 Cult of Personality Joined: Posts: 912
    We got Sailor Moon on the front page essentially.

    You all wish you lived in NY.
    It's DaiAndOh or just Dai
    "The purpose of striking a pose is not to become like a wallpaper. That's why we chant loudly when we pose, to draw attention to our magnificence."
  • Missing PersonMissing Person Givin' dat ho ho ho dem eyes. Joined: Posts: 13,702
    I wished I lived anywhere that a good connection for this game would be possible.

    But offline is better. The speed feels off on emu after playing this on snes.

    Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL
    XBL: WatCnBrwnDo4U | PSN: LanierIsPlusEV | CFN: MissingPerson GGPO/FightCade: Missing Person | Steam: [TAS] Missing Person | Battle.net: MissingPersn#1365
    Twitter: JTMMissingPersn | Instagram: jtmmissingperson | Twitch: twitch.tv/missingpersonsrk
  • deadfrogdeadfrog Joined: Joined: Posts: 6,787
    The speed feels off on emu after playing this on snes.
    Slower or faster? Or... dropped frames??
  • Missing PersonMissing Person Givin' dat ho ho ho dem eyes. Joined: Posts: 13,702
    Slower or faster? Or... dropped frames??
    Lots of speed ups and slowdowns. Could just be my laptop or playing it on Linux emus.

    But if nothing hiccups, definitely a little faster I think.
    XBL: WatCnBrwnDo4U | PSN: LanierIsPlusEV | CFN: MissingPerson GGPO/FightCade: Missing Person | Steam: [TAS] Missing Person | Battle.net: MissingPersn#1365
    Twitter: JTMMissingPersn | Instagram: jtmmissingperson | Twitch: twitch.tv/missingpersonsrk
  • AlzarathAlzarath Remember, salt is part of a balanced diet. Joined: Posts: 3,536
    "For the amount of new players who play FGs, you won’t see nearly enough new talent in top 8s. This is because too many people are bitches." - Aris

    PSN: not_alzarath (East Coast) | @AlzarathEX
  • AlzarathAlzarath Remember, salt is part of a balanced diet. Joined: Posts: 3,536
    http://www.twitch.tv/dirtyberet Rithli doing a tutorial. Check out the archives if you missed it.
    "For the amount of new players who play FGs, you won’t see nearly enough new talent in top 8s. This is because too many people are bitches." - Aris

    PSN: not_alzarath (East Coast) | @AlzarathEX
  • AlzarathAlzarath Remember, salt is part of a balanced diet. Joined: Posts: 3,536
    http://www.twitch.tv/dirtyberet

    Sailor Moon going to be on stream soon (currently VSav is on). Some key players are missing unfortunately, but it should still be entertaining.
    "For the amount of new players who play FGs, you won’t see nearly enough new talent in top 8s. This is because too many people are bitches." - Aris

    PSN: not_alzarath (East Coast) | @AlzarathEX
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