How to connect a LED to TE MC Cthulhu to make input lag test video?

papasipapasi N Ken is the truthJoined: Posts: 1,568
Hi,

I want to test input lag for various systems like NKI did here



I want to test arcade ST, fba (ggpo) on windows7 / XP, Xbox HDR classic mode, PS2 AE capcore

I have a TE w/ MC Cthulhu but I'm not exactly sure how to hook up the LED to my stick, but I guess it should be fairly straight forward.

Can someone help? Thanks.
eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/

Comments

  • NerrageNerrage STICKS for JOY Joined: Posts: 3,349
    I'm guessing you want an LED as soon as you press your button down?

    Connect positive, longer leg, the anode, to the signal wire of the button. Connect the negative, shorter leg, the cathode, to ground. Be sure to put a resistor between one of the legs and the wire, to avoid drawing too much current. 100 ohms or so should do.
  • ToodlesToodles da Fetus of Gawd! Joined: Posts: 10,778
    Grab a 1k ohm resistor for each button you want to light up, connect one leg to the button's signal line, and the other leg to one of the LED lines used on the LED panel.

    But I have to ask, please separate the boards out. I'm down with testing and all, because of the dual modding, one board can affect the response on the other. I think it's a little unfair for the MC, since the capacitors on the TE board can affect the button response. But, I could easily be mistaken and the MC could affect the TE board unfairly. I don't know. I just do know that it'd be more fair for the boards to be tested separately. Better yet, test them individually and together, so people can know if there is an affect.
  • RufusRufus An unexpected database error has occurred. Joined: Posts: 1,966
    I usually drive the button lines separately with a microcontroller. I suppose I could go track down some optoisolators and fully separate the electrical circuits that there's less doubt about that sort of thing.

    FWIW, I'm inclined to rig up a transistor to modify the video signal instead of using an LED. That should control for monitor lag somewhat, and provide better timing resolution.
    Hitboxes http://www.pedantic.org/~nate/HDR/
    "You don't know what you're talking about as much as I do." -- Unknown
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,568
    put a resistor between one of the legs and the wire

    The resistor can be wired to either leg?
    Toodles wrote:
    and the other leg to one of the LED lines used on the LED panel.

    So the other leg should go to the LED panel instead of ground like Nerrage said? I'll look inside the LED panel to make sure I know where to hook this up.
    Toodles wrote:
    because of the dual modding, one board can affect the response on the other

    Did I read it correctly? Dual modding TE 360 with MC will introduce input lag??!


    @Rufus

    I'm not sure I understand you, are you saying you'll do this test to save me the trouble? :)
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
    Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
  • ToodlesToodles da Fetus of Gawd! Joined: Posts: 10,778
    Did I read it correctly? Dual modding TE 360 with MC will introduce input lag??!
    Forget I said anything. This notion of any lag being completely unacceptable is getting audiophile-level crazy, and I want nothing to do with it.
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,568
    Toodles, I don't think most people would care about 2ms lag (like the asus monitor).

    But if there is a 1 frame lag ~= 16ms that's not quite acceptable.....
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
    Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
  • ToodlesToodles da Fetus of Gawd! Joined: Posts: 10,778
    For almost all setups, I would suspect it would barely register in the microsecond range, and usually nano- or pico- range. *CAN* one board in a dual mod setup affect the response time of a board it's dual modded with? Yep, sure can, and almost all cases, it's in that nano- to micro- second range; strictly speaking, its lag, but to think it actually matters or affects play in any way is flat-out, house of 10,000 cats, parachute pants wearing, Crisco-masturbating lunacy.

    But the core of science of to test hypothesis. You may be able to test your dual mod and get some average result, but to say that it proves inherent lag in either board is crazy, unless you also test the boards separately. Sure, yes, I think the capacitors on the TE board could make the MC test lest responsive than it would be by itself. But, I could have that backwards; maybe the MC makes the TE crap the bed for some reason I can't put my finger on. Lots of testing, together and separately, would be needed to show one way to the other.
  • RufusRufus An unexpected database error has occurred. Joined: Posts: 1,966
    Papasi, I'll put something together and have it for you at WCW. I don't have all the systems you want to test on handy.
    Hitboxes http://www.pedantic.org/~nate/HDR/
    "You don't know what you're talking about as much as I do." -- Unknown
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,568
    I'm guessing you want an LED as soon as you press your button down?

    Connect positive, longer leg, the anode, to the signal wire of the button. Connect the negative, shorter leg, the cathode, to ground. Be sure to put a resistor between one of the legs and the wire, to avoid drawing too much current. 100 ohms or so should do.

    Here's what I did

    1. Connect positive, longer leg, the anode, to the signal wire of the button.

    2. Connect the negative, shorter leg, the cathode, with a 500ohm resistor, then connect it to common ground

    Now the LED is lit up all the time and only turn off when I press the button.

    I guess it still works for my purpose but it's not as nice as NKI's setup...
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
    Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 23,367
    papasi, reading your thread, I all of the sudden was reminded of this From ben heck .com

    PS3 Controller Monitor
    New Xbox 360 Controller Monitors

    Ben Heck (Heckendorn) sold a few to several game studios for game testing, including Infinity Ward when they develop Modern Warfare 2
    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
    - Darth Vader, Philanthropist
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,568
    in case any of you are interested in the results

    PS2 CCC2 ->CRT 8 frames #
    PS1 ST ->CRT 4 frames #
    DC ST ->CRT 5 frames #


    cps2 s-video encoder->CRT 4.5 frames *

    cps2 vga encoder->LCD 7-frames *

    xbox classic mode->LCD 6-7 frames *

    PS3 classic mode->LCD 8 frames

    ps2 ae->CRT 6 frames *

    ggpo
    w7 aero 8-11 frames (and a lot of dropped inputs) *
    w7 fullscreen 7-9 frames *
    w7 disable aero 7-8-frames *
    xp 6 frames *

    supercade
    w7 aero 8-10 frames (and a lot of dropped inputs) *
    w7 fullscreen 7 frames *
    w7 disable aero 7 frames *
    xp 6 frames *


    xp offline fba version 029708 6 frames *

    xp offline mame version 0141b 6 frames *

    console are tested with 360 TE dual modded with MC, hdmi out to Asus V236H
    Emulation are tested on Dell Dimension 9200 2ghz core2duo / ATI 4850 / Asus V236H

    thanks ultracombo for lending the ps3 for testing
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
    Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
  • NerrageNerrage STICKS for JOY Joined: Posts: 3,349
    Here's what I did

    1. Connect positive, longer leg, the anode, to the signal wire of the button.

    2. Connect the negative, shorter leg, the cathode, with a 500ohm resistor, then connect it to common ground

    Now the LED is lit up all the time and only turn off when I press the button.

    I guess it still works for my purpose but it's not as nice as NKI's setup...

    That's weird. Flip it around.
  • dakodako Joined: Posts: 83
    cps2 s-video encoder->CRT 4.5 frames *

    How did you measure that .5 frames?
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,568
    average of 4 frames and 5 frames

    updated with xbox & ps3 ssf4 test

    xbox SSF4 ryu cr. rh 6 frames

    PS3 SSF4 ryu cr. rh 7-8 frames
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
    Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
  • SmokeMaxXSmokeMaxX T.O. of A.R.K. Joined: Posts: 7,974
    Any idea what an arcade would be at? Like, is it possible the PS1 version (ST) runs FASTER than arcade?
  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 23,367
    Any idea what an arcade would be at? Like, is it possible the PS1 version (ST) runs FASTER than arcade?
    cps2 = Capcom arcade board. Actually CPS2 is a 2nd (or 3rd) gen Capcom arcade board that is not develop for 1 dedicated game, there are boards named the CPS and CPS3.
    The CPS2 similar to a Neo Geo board in the fact they both take large game carts that hold the game ROM data as well as any minor hardware upgrades necessary to run said games. The CPS2 sort of resembled a Large blue game console minus the connectors for Jamma harness, a kick harness and its audio/ video out put and its power connections. THE CPS2 is easy to consoleize or connect to a "supergun" (I always felt the name is inappropriate for what the device does).
    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
    - Darth Vader, Philanthropist
  • SmokeMaxXSmokeMaxX T.O. of A.R.K. Joined: Posts: 7,974
    Ah, my bad. I thought it was CPS2 emulation.
  • TRiXWoNTRiXWoN Solder Soldier in the 6 Button Army Joined: Posts: 1,070
    I've heard crisco works quite well... O_o
    ::Mod till your heart's content::
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