Logan (2017)

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  • MageggMagegg Joined: Posts: 3,973
    edited March 5
    Each Fox movie has felt like a standalone. Because they tend to ignore continuity and the writer can just take what it thinks it works the better for the plot. Deadpool is a standalone too. In Marvel, every movie has to be a sequel of the last one.

    And Fox are able to deliver a very different tone. Deadpool, X-Men and Logan all are extremely different. Marvel is always more or less a mix between adventure and comedy. They haven't given themselves the chance to go to extremes. Have we ever seen an MCU character cry onscreen?
  • crotchpunchacrotchpuncha Joined: Posts: 21,597
    And out of 17 years worth of movies that's worked how many times?

    I can count them on one hand.
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  • MageggMagegg Joined: Posts: 3,973
    edited March 5
    RockBogart wrote: »
    And yet they've consistently put an inferior product for two decades despite having a head start
    DoFP, Deadpool and Logan all of them have been top-notch, and many people like them better than the generic Marvel films (which are great, but for example Age of Ultron and Civil War were disappointments for many fans because of how similar they are to previous movies).

    DoFP wasn't inferior to Marvel's efforts in that year (Guardians of the Galaxy and Captain America: The Winter Soldier).
    Deadpool is the highest grossing R-Rated movie and it's considered one of the best superhero movies for a lot of people.
    Logan has a higher rate of approval than most of the MCU movies and it's also considered one of the best comic book movies by fans.


    Yeah, Fantastic Four was a complete and utter disaster (everything was rushed into production and release to keep the movie rights) and Apocalypse kind of sucks, but that doesn't mean Fox isn't doing great Marvel movies, only they're not as consistent as Marvel Studios on that.
  • WilWil Joined: Posts: 6,118
    It took this long to get the Wolverine movie we all deserved
    and he dies at the end of it. Life isn't fair
    .

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  • HawkingbirdHawkingbird I am thou...thou art I Joined: Posts: 26,265
    Magegg wrote: »
    RockBogart wrote: »
    And yet they've consistently put an inferior product for two decades despite having a head start
    DoFP, Deadpool and Logan all of them have been top-notch

    How many movies do it take for Fox to get to that point? With DoFP your saying it took Fox seven movies to finally get a good one. Marvel kicked it out of the park from the first movie.
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  • 2-D2-D Praise BasedGod...Hand Joined: Posts: 973
    Wait, Civil War was a disappointment?! To who?! Lol
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  • MageggMagegg Joined: Posts: 3,973
    edited March 5
    2-D wrote: »
    Wait, Civil War was a disappointment?! To who?! Lol
    A lot of people, mostly complaining about the lack of seriousness in the superhero battles, the abandonment of the political part of the plot in favour of a "Martha-like" conflict between Cap and Tony, the kind of absurd actions of the villain.
    I think the movie was very good, but not everyone thinks same as me. I've been a lot of complaints, even in Marvel fan groups.
    How many movies do it take for Fox to get to that point? With DoFP your saying it took Fox seven movies to finally get a good one.
    And why you only focus in the past?

    The only important thing here is that in the last 3 years or so, Fox has been doing mostly homerun after homerun, each new movie finds a lot of people putting them #1 in their best X-Men (and comic book) movies lists, and very important, they've been offering really different and diverse movies that also represents greatly the safe material.

    Deadpool and Logan are both perfect representations of those characters, they've been defying conventions of the genre and changing the game. And while Days of Future Past might not be completely loyal to the source material (neither Civil War was), it was a great culmination of previous steps on the storyline, and it's always been considered an excellent comic book film (when movies like Iron Man 3 or Age of Ultron found a bigger backlash)...

    Yeah, but you only want to talk about Wolverine Origins and The Last Stand.
    Stop living in the past, nowadays Fox is doing great and they're setting the bar higher for other companies when it comes into changing the formula and introducing groundbreaking things in comic book movies, while each new Marvel film is mostly a repetition from previous ones.

    Am I saying Fox is a perfect film studio? No, but it's quite notorious they've been doing great comic book films lately.
    Marvel kicked it out of the park from the first movie.
    And they mostly haven't been the same since the first movie. Iron Man is still considered the best Marvel movie for a lot of people, but not all their efforts have been as succesful as that (starting with Iron Man 2 and 3).
  • Plaid_UnicornPlaid_Unicorn Camron should have won an Oscar for Paid in Full Joined: Posts: 9,931
    Logan was fucking great.

    I'm not holding my breathe about Fox continuing the streak though.

    I also don't care for deadpool in the least. Logan is my favorite MCU movie thus far.
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  • MageggMagegg Joined: Posts: 3,973
    MCU??
  • Plaid_UnicornPlaid_Unicorn Camron should have won an Oscar for Paid in Full Joined: Posts: 9,931
    Magegg wrote: »
    MCU??

    I guess I should just say Marvel flick. Its easily the best Fox has put out and better than Marvels offering imo. It set the bar to what a super hero flick could be. Not saying MCU is going to completely change its style going forward but I know for me at least this is the bar to quality I would like to see from Marvel.
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  • MageggMagegg Joined: Posts: 3,973
    More drama and pain could be welcome, Marvel always has shied away from that. It is sometimes very necessary. Baron Zemo left Captain America knelt and weeping after destroying his mansion and killing a lot of people... that's such a powerful scene with a lot of meaning.

    Not saying they should start doing R-Rated movies or anything, but a higher level of drama would be a more exciting ride and more inspiring experience for the audience, rather than the amicable and safe zone they've always put their heroes into.

    As long as you do it in a natural and organic way (not like what BvS did), big drama and more pain and negative feelings can be quite a treat for the audience and leave a more lasting impression.
  • HawkingbirdHawkingbird I am thou...thou art I Joined: Posts: 26,265
    edited March 5
    Magegg wrote: »
    2-D wrote: »
    Wait, Civil War was a disappointment?! To who?! Lol
    A lot of people, mostly complaining about the lack of seriousness in the superhero battles, the abandonment of the political part of the plot in favour of a "Martha-like" conflict between Cap and Tony, the kind of absurd actions of the villain.
    I think the movie was very good, but not everyone thinks same as me. I've been a lot of complaints, even in Marvel fan groups.
    How many movies do it take for Fox to get to that point? With DoFP your saying it took Fox seven movies to finally get a good one. Marvel kicked it out of the park from the first movie.
    And why you only focus in the past?

    The only important thing here is that in the last 3 years or so, Fox has been doing mostly homerun after homerun, each new movie finds a lot of people putting them #1 in their best X-Men movies lists, and very important, they've been offering really different and diverse movies that also represents greatly the safe material.

    Deadpool and Logan are both perfect representations of those characters, they've been defying conventions of the genre and changing the game. And while Days of Future Past might not be completely loyal to the source material (neither Civil War was), it was a great culmination of previous steps on the storyline, and it's always been considered an excellent comic book film (when movies like Iron Man 3 or Age of Ultron found a bigger backlash)...

    Yeah, but you only want to talk about Wolverine Origins and The Last Stand.
    Stop living in the past, nowadays Fox is doing great and they're setting the bar higher for other companies when it comes into changing the formula and introducing groundbreaking things in comic book movies, while each new Marvel film is mostly a repetition from previous ones.

    Am I saying Fox is a perfect film studio? No, but it's quite notorious they've been doing great comic book films lately.

    Fox has more fuck ups than homeruns. A Logan and Deadpool doesn't make up for delivering underwhelming and flat out terrible movies for over a decade. It's not just Origins and Last Stand. Did you forget last year's stinker Apocalypse? When it comes to Deadpool the main reason why that was so good is because the studio was hands-off during it's production. Fox's movies ain't changing shit. At best, Deadpool and maybe Logan shows that rated R superhero flicks can print money. It isn't game changing in the slightest. The Crow is a comic based R rated movie that was successful in the box office and that was way back in 94.

    You give MCU shit about continuity holding those movies back and suck DoFP dick when it does the same? Hypocrisy is too strong.

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  • MageggMagegg Joined: Posts: 3,973
    edited March 5
    Fox has more fuck ups than homeruns.
    Only if you focus in the past. From 2014 onwards: Three great movies, one that was decent (there's many people who liked Apocalypse) and one that was utter garbage.

    Not all the movies are good, but if you do release three movies that can be considered some of the best comic book series and each one a contender for best movie of the series. If that doesn't mean doing great then I don't know what you want (Fox be exactly like Marvel Studios?), do an actual time travel to never do the bad movies from the past? Be realistic and stop living in 2006.
    When it comes to Deadpool the main reason why that was so good is because the studio was hands-off during it's production.

    What I said was simply this: Logan will be a game changer and studios, because it's daring to go where comic book movies never went before, and people are responding very positively. That's my prediction and nothing else; if you disagree with it, let it so be.

    I'm not saying Fox will be gold from here onwards, I'm not saying they're the best studio in the superhero movies business, I'm not saying they're better than Marvel, just saying with this last streak they've been proving more than once that they're worth of doing comic book movies because they've bringing new things to the table that the other studios haven't offered to their audience.
    Like many people have said, if the X-Men rights were with Marvel, we would have never had a Deadpool movie like the one Fox produced.
    The Crow is a comic based R rated movie that was successful in the box office and that was way back in 94.
    Crow was never identified as a superhero by people, and it was dark since its conception. Logan is a final leap to the theater of the idea that colorful and widely known superheroes can have darker and more dramatic interpretations that can be equally or even more succesful than the versions we usually enjoyed in cinema.
    You give MCU shit about continuity holding those movies back and suck DoFP dick when it does the same?
    Having a strict continuity and not having one both offer advantages and disadvantages, I'm not saying they should change that, I'm simply pointing that Marvel has sticked way too much for way too long to the familiar formula and safe zone, that reinvigorating movies like Logan can teach them one or two things.
    A studio being able to produce "minor" budget movies that don't necessarily tie in at all with the continuity can be a strength, too.
    We all know Feige is extremely protective of the plan and long-term continuity he's planned, and while MCU movies are usually great, that policy also prevent some other interesting projects from happening (like the Runaways, Inhumans or Edgar Wright's Ant-Man movies), specially those that are radically different and daring.
  • HawkingbirdHawkingbird I am thou...thou art I Joined: Posts: 26,265
    Magegg wrote: »
    Fox has more fuck ups than homeruns.
    Only if you focus in the past. From 2014 onwards: Three great movies, one that was decent (there's many people who liked Apocalypse) and one that was utter garbage.

    Not all the movies are good, but if you do release three movies that can be considered some of the best comic book series and each one a contender for best movie of the series. If that doesn't mean doing great then I don't know what you want (Fox be exactly like Marvel Studios?), do an actual time travel to never do the bad movies from the past? Be realistic and stop living in 2006.

    I'm not going to ignore a studio's history of producing terrible X-Men movies. I'll warm up to Fox when they deliver more films in the same quality as Deadpool and Logan. They are still delivering stinkers like Apocalypse. If Singer is still attached to Supernova there's no hope in it being good.

    [
    Magegg wrote:
    It was good, it was loved, it was a box office success, it was groundbreaking (and radically different to what Marvel was doing at that point), shut the fuck up.


    What I said was simply this: Logan will be a game changer and studios, because it's daring to go where comic book movies never went before, and people are responding very positively. That's my prediction and nothing else; if you disagree with it, let it so be.

    I'm not saying Fox will be gold from here onwards, I'm not saying they're the best studio in the superhero movies business, I'm not saying they're better than Marvel, just saying with this last streak they've been proving more than once that they're worth of doing comic book movies because they've bringing new things to the table that the other studios haven't offered to their audience.

    What exactly is groundbreaking about Deadpool? What has it done that wasn't achieved by any other movie? Your putting the movie on a pedestal for being able to faithfully adapt the character to big screen which isn't any different from how Marvel is doing with their heroes.

    Nothing about Logan is a game changer. Comic book movies being bleak, dark and somber isn't new at all. In fact, that's how comic book movies were before the MCU hit in 2008. The Daredevil movie and Ang Lee's Hulk went that route and they sucked. Logan was blessed by not sucking.

    The only thing that Fox is offering that Marvel and WB isn't are R rated flicks.
    "Magegg wrote:
    Crow was never identified as a superhero by people, and it was dark since its conception. Logan is a final leap to the theater of the idea that colorful and widely known superheroes can have darker and more dramatic interpretations that can be equally or even more succesful than the versions we usually enjoyed in cinema.

    Again, is nothing new to super hero cinema.
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  • MageggMagegg Joined: Posts: 3,973
    I'm not going to ignore a studio's history of producing terrible X-Men movies.
    Your opinion on Fox is irrelevant, the important thing here is the relevance of Logan as a movie.
    What exactly is groundbreaking about Deadpool? What has it done that wasn't achieved by any other movie? Your putting the movie on a pedestal for being able to faithfully adapt the character to big screen which isn't any different from how Marvel is doing with their heroes.
    The importance here is the character they chose to adapt. It's a dirty, raunchy, gorey, 4th-wall-breaking antihero. Marvel would have NEVER done a movie like that. So, it brought more diversity.
    Logan was blessed by not sucking.
    Why don't you simply fucking admit the movie was well done and it's a success? They proved a depressing superhero drama can be good when it's done in an organic way, not in a silly and pretentious one like the movies you refer.
    Logan is an achievement.
    The only thing that Fox is offering that Marvel and WB isn't are R rated flicks.
    Batman v Superman had an R-Rated version.
    "Magegg wrote:
    Again, is nothing new to super hero cinema.
    That's like saying Avengers was nothing new. Of course revitalizing a type of superhero movie and making it feel new and relevant for the general audience is a big achievement.
  • crotchpunchacrotchpuncha Joined: Posts: 21,597
    Lots of people liking something doesnt mwan its good. You need to actually explain why the movie is good. A lot of people liking Acolyps doesn't mean it's a good movie.
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  • RichterRichter ~~~00~~~ Joined: Posts: 1,878
    Dope movie, small complaint though
    That end scene where they kill Dark Hugh Jackman could have been better imo. Instead of showing:

    1) The gun on the ground for a few seconds
    2) Showing the girl pick up the gun
    2) Load the admantium bullet

    They couldn't have been a more subtle with the whole gun thing? Felt like a wasted opportunity to catch the audience by surprise.
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  • MageggMagegg Joined: Posts: 3,973
    Richter wrote: »
    That end scene where they kill Dark Hugh Jackman could have been better imo. Instead of showing:

    1) The gun on the ground for a few seconds
    2) Showing the girl pick up the gun
    2) Load the admantium bullet

    They couldn't have been a more subtle with the whole gun thing? Felt like a wasted opportunity to catch the audience by surprise.

    I agree on that. The final parts of the third act movie were kind of jumbled and bad directed. They could have improved it.
  • HawkingbirdHawkingbird I am thou...thou art I Joined: Posts: 26,265
    Magegg wrote: »
    Your opinion on Fox is irrelevant, the important thing here is the relevance of Logan as a movie.

    You were the one that opened the door when you brought the MCU into this.
    Magegg wrote:
    The importance here is the character they chose to adapt. It's a dirty, raunchy, gorey, 4th-wall-breaking antihero. Marvel would have NEVER done a movie like that. So, it brought more diversity.

    Deadpool isn't Marvel's only 4th wall breaking hero. They can easily produce a similar film but it won't be R rated.
    Magegg wrote:
    Why don't you simply fucking admit the movie was well done and it's a success? They proved a depressing superhero drama can be good when it's done in an organic way, not in a silly and pretentious one like the movies you refer.
    Logan is an achievement.

    I like Logan. I think it's a great movie. I'm not going to treat it like the second coming of Christ because of it.
    Magegg wrote:
    Batman v Superman had an R-Rated version.

    On DVD and as a kneejerk response to Deadpool.


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  • MageggMagegg Joined: Posts: 3,973
    edited March 5
    At least I hope X-Force to be a hardboiled sci-fi action flick a la Total Recall (1990).

    They say Reynolds is getting too involved on it, though, hope he doesn't want to change their concept to a farsic comedy akin to Deadpool.

    As for the other films, New Mutants will be a 'young adult' story and I guess X-Men: Supernova will follow the same formula as the other films from the main X-Men series (hope they do it right).
    I loved this flick. I've been begging the xmen to take this route for a while... sad that this may be the exception not the rule.
    Not every X-Men film has to be R-Rated, bleak and depressing, that would be a mistake. The advantage Fox had with Logan (and Deadpool) is that they were able to offer something different from their previous efforts.

    They shouldn't make a formula out of this style and apply it to the main series, IMO the "X-Men" series films have the right tone, but it's good for them to have several 'spin-offs' with different styles for more variety. Variety is the key, offering different kinds of movies depending on the property they're adapting. Marvel Studios might manage different genres but they're way too much tied to their formula and there are many things they're not willing to do, it's good other studios can take more risks by offering something radically different.
    Post edited by Magegg on
  • Kinniku BusterKinniku Buster KIMO! KIMO! KIMO! Joined: Posts: 9,140
    Likely seeing it tomorrow. I've read everything from "Logan is amazing!" To "Logan is OK at best" so we'll see.
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  • RockBogartRockBogart Donkologist, Ph.D Joined: Posts: 37,505 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Likely seeing it tomorrow. I've read everything from "Logan is amazing!" To "Logan is OK at best" so we'll see.

    I don't even know why you watch movies :rofl:
  • JoshkazJoshkaz Princess Luna is my Waifu Joined: Posts: 15,276
    Is Logan worth seeing, fam?

    Might go today if it is.
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  • CTGCTG Army of Zero Joined: Posts: 6,163
    Fox has again showed they can make a dope action movie, but only average X-Men movies. Overall I give it a 7. It had it's moments, but a lot of it felt forced.
  • MageggMagegg Joined: Posts: 3,973
    I wouldn't call it an action movie.
  • HawkingbirdHawkingbird I am thou...thou art I Joined: Posts: 26,265
    edited March 6
    The first and final acts of the movie had plenty of action. Enough to call it an action movie.
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  • MageggMagegg Joined: Posts: 3,973
    The first and final acts of the movie had plenty of action. Enough to call it an action movie.
    It's maybe like 10-12 minutes of action when combined. Not what I'd call an action movie.
  • The Furious OneThe Furious One Fluent in 3 languages Engrish, Sarcasm & Profanity Joined: Posts: 20,778
    edited March 6
    On the Mr Sunday Movie's Weekly Planet podcast they were throwing out ideas about the continuity. One idea is that in Logan, Charles references 'Statue of Liberty incident' and Logan being a cage fighter which all happened in the first Xmen movie, so those events happened but none of the other events in films are talked about, so did they happen or like the comic books in the film were they made up.

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  • Pablo_the_MexPablo_the_Mex Blond Kanye Status Joined: Posts: 8,227
    Logan was flames. I am not sure what timeline it is supposed to follow, but this is what Wolverine films should have been like from the beginning.