Chikara no Hadou: Evil Ryu Strategies & Match-up Thread

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  • mapleleafs791mapleleafs791 Joined: Posts: 866
    so i have a quick question.

    What are e ryus bad matchups [4-6 or worse]
    I normmally just look at ryus bad mu list, add the shittier normals, and add the massive damage potential to get a rough guess but does anyone have any mu's they think suck?
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  • ShineboxShinebox Joined: Posts: 2,689
    edited August 2013
    so i have a quick question.

    What are e ryus bad matchups [4-6 or worse]
    I normmally just look at ryus bad mu list, add the shittier normals, and add the massive damage potential to get a rough guess but does anyone have any mu's they think suck?

    4-6 or worse?

    Akuma
    Ibuki
    Adon

    Akuma is definitely the worst match up IMO

  • Rice_EaterRice_Eater Now more Evil Joined: Posts: 1,807
    edited August 2013
    Shinebox wrote: »
    4-6 or worse?

    Akuma
    Ibuki
    Adon

    Akuma is definitely the worst match up IMO

    Mind saying why? Just asking because I feel that Ibuki is the worse or equally as bad. She gets vortex with unblockables. Against fireballs she has both neckbreaker and slide depending on the players reactions and the distance between the two when the fireball is thrown. Even in pure footsies battle I think he loses as she can match or beat him with decent normals of her own and has ways to blow up his low forward which is so crucial to his game.

    Against Akuma, although Evil Ryu loses in every aspect of the match I at least feel like I can throw fireballs although Akuma players can capitalize on good reads with EX demon flip. Against Ibuki I don't know what I can do. On the bright side he can at least attack her on wake up with all his options instead of being afraid that she'll teleport away like Akuma will. So I guess that evens things out when comparing how bad Ibuki is compared to Akuma.

    For reference, I also consider DJ and Rose 6-4 matches for Evil Ryu.

  • ShineboxShinebox Joined: Posts: 2,689
    edited August 2013
    Rice_Eater wrote: »
    Shinebox wrote: »
    4-6 or worse?

    Akuma
    Ibuki
    Adon

    Akuma is definitely the worst match up IMO

    Mind saying why? Just asking because I feel that Ibuki is the worse or equally as bad. She gets vortex with unblockables. Against fireballs she has both neckbreaker and slide depending on the players reactions and the distance between the two when the fireball is thrown. Even in pure footsies battle I think he loses as she can match or beat him with decent normals of her own and has ways to blow up his low forward which is so crucial to his game.

    Against Akuma, although Evil Ryu loses in every aspect of the match I at least feel like I can throw fireballs although Akuma players can capitalize on good reads with EX demon flip. Against Ibuki I don't know what I can do. On the bright side he can at least attack her on wake up with all his options instead of being afraid that she'll teleport away like Akuma will. So I guess that evens things out when comparing how bad Ibuki is compared to Akuma.

    For reference, I also consider DJ and Rose 4-6 matches for Evil Ryu.

    You kind of answered your own question there. Akuma has better tools than Evil Ryu. At the very least Evil Ryu can deal with Ibuki's wake up and her only decent AA is B+MP so dive kick is actually useful. Ibuki also has below average walkspeed. You should be using cr.MP against her to stuff her normals. Her Kunai recovery is not very good on block compared to Akuma's air fireball

    Against Akuma however?

    -Knocking him down gets E.Ryu nothing as Akuma teleports away for free
    -Akuma's normals are better than E.Ryus
    -Akuma can punish E.Ryu's sweep on block, Akuma uses his sweep to bait opponents when he has Ultra
    -Akuma's fireball recovers faster can't jump over them otherwise he will DP
    -Akuma's cr.MK is much faster and his cr.HK start up is faster than E.Ryu's cr.MK start up
    -He walks faster
    -On your wake up your options are similar to Ryu's, teleporting is the worst thing you can possibly do in this match (because he has like 4-5 OSs to punish) also, when Akuma demon flips on you knocked down, Whiff cr.MK > SRK on wake up is not as good because of E. Ryu cr.MK's high frame count (this works well with Ken and Ryu as their total frame count is 22, Evil Ryu's is 26)
    -It's difficult to use s.MK in this match because Akuma will place an air fireball in front of him
    -cr.MP is not as effective here as it is with Ibuki he will either have a fireball in front of him or he will counter hit it

    In the Akuma match up, Evil Ryu has to get very lucky by landing a combo on him, outside of that he's very hard to open up. At the very least you can open up Ibuki on her wake up

    Rose and Dee Jay are the other bad match ups I'm thinking about as well, yes, but they are not nearly as bad as Akuma

    I even asked for advice here on Akuma and got the following response:
    DeathGun wrote: »
    akuma's matchup is the most dumb matchup Evil Ryu have. Its like 7-3 akuma imo. You get heavily outfootsied, outzoned and everything leads to a dumb vortex. I will to record a video that will at least allow you to pressure him with a 50/50 jump in the corner after a FADC combo.

    While I don't think it's a 3-7 I have to agree with DeathGun, this match up is pretty bad. It's the worst "4-6" I have experienced with Evil Ryu, it's probably closer to 3.5-6.5 while Ibuki is definitely a 4-6
    Post edited by Shinebox on
  • Rice_EaterRice_Eater Now more Evil Joined: Posts: 1,807
    Great explanation Shinebox. I guess the edge goes to Akuma because we can actually jump at Ibuki(somewhat, that st. MP is really good even against dive kicks) and she's kind of free on wake up. Her shutting down our fireball game really sucks but then again Akuma still beats Evil Ryu in that aspect to. If we get the buffs that we're hoping for, I think a lot of our tough match ups will be nearly even. These two will at the very least get a little easier but wouldn't be even IMO since most of the tools will remain the same.
  • RygRyg Joined: Posts: 146
    Hello all. Need help. I have hard time dealing with Blanka's glide. I always get CH even if i predict it and i cant punish it on block. Any idea?
  • DeathGunDeathGun Joined: Posts: 699
    I dont think ibuki is that bad of a matchup. Evil ryu can to finish his combo with a mixup against her wasting no meter, have meter and meterless unblockables in the corner (they are hella easy to apply), very ambiguous jumps after a throw, and does not bad in the neutral game. Im starting to think this matchup is 5-5 at least, may be even in Evil Ryu's favor.

    There are many unwinnable matchups for Evil Ryu that ends up being winnable somehow due the damage potential the unblockables gives him. Right now Im having problems with Feilong and Makoto. E.R. is destroyed in every aspect of the matchup, but you end up getting a focus crumple, does the unblockable, dizzies them and do another combo followed by another unblockable, and thats it lol.

    atm I think the worse matchups for him are Akuma (7-3), Gen, Adon (6.5-3.5), Thawk, Viper, Makoto, Feilong, Juri, Dhalsim (6-4). Feilong and Makoto would be togheter with Akuma as 7-3 if theres no unblockables.

    Theres the elfuerte's matchup, that is so retarded I cant even wonder a score for it.
  • DeathGunDeathGun Joined: Posts: 699
    Ryg wrote: »
    Hello all. Need help. I have hard time dealing with Blanka's glide. I always get CH even if i predict it and i cant punish it on block. Any idea?

    "glide" means "slide"? If thats the case, theres a certain range where its safe against Evil Ryu's c.mk, but its hard for blank to nail it. Every range else, it whiffs or gets punished by c.mk xx lk tatsu (you have to be fast with the c.mk, tough). If you are unsure about the possibility of punishment, do c.mk xx hadouken, or block once in a while.
  • RygRyg Joined: Posts: 146
    Yep, my bad, im not english.
    Also, is there a way to punish the lp roll and the ex roll?
  • DeathGunDeathGun Joined: Posts: 699
    never tried it but maybe the super can punish both. Gotta try it when I get to home.
  • mapleleafs791mapleleafs791 Joined: Posts: 866
    edited August 2013
    does E ryu have any trade OSes into ultra 2/ultra 1? i normally react to trade st fp into sweep but im not sure if you could os U2. Trying to tidy up my e ryu doc before my hand recovers or i would test it myself
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  • m16ghostm16ghost Joined: Posts: 1,810
    I know Bison can trade U1, and his U1 is 12 frame startup, so it's very likely that eryu can trade U1/U2, since his ultras are faster and hitstun values vary by very little.
  • DeathGunDeathGun Joined: Posts: 699
    Ryg wrote: »
    Yep, my bad, im not english.
    Also, is there a way to punish the lp roll and the ex roll?

    its punishable only when its first active frame is blocked, by E.R.'s super and U1.
  • RygRyg Joined: Posts: 146
    Ok, thanks for the tips.
  • Explorer200Explorer200 Joined: Posts: 445
    Hey guys, I'm having a hard time versus Abel. I'd appreciate any tips/advice on this matchup. Thanks
  • yoeyoe16yoeyoe16 Joined: Posts: 31
    Hey guys, I'm having a hard time versus Abel. I'd appreciate any tips/advice on this matchup. Thanks

    I remember there is a very detailed matchup strategy against Abel on the previous pages of this topic so I suggest you browse it :)

  • GefenGefen Joined: Posts: 1,381
    Hey guys, I'm having a hard time versus Abel. I'd appreciate any tips/advice on this matchup. Thanks
    What's make the match up hard for you?

    It will be even better if you could show an footage of you playing against good/decent/the one that gives you trouble able

  • ItsNotJackieChanItsNotJackieChan Joined: Posts: 113
    yo guys im a fresh out the womb evil ryu player. Ive been trying to pick this game up and bouncing between characters but i like E.Ryu.

    Quick Question. Is cr.lp, cl.hp a one-frame link? (I looked up the frame data, but im not quite sure that im reading it correctly)

    Also what are good strings to hit confirm with that lead into his bnb?
  • TheliTheli Joined: Posts: 1,586
    edited October 2013
    Yes.

    Valuable "katas" in the training room... Eat my wall of text.

    To start with, it would be worth practicing any hit confirm on a dummy set to random block and stopping safely when you notice a block. (Don't have to practice on random block all the time. But this is the #1 way to test if you actually have your hit confirms down.)

    Now then, start with one of...
    jump-in heavy attack (land in front), c.mp...
    jump-in cross-up, c.lp...
    dive-kick (connecting mid-height or lower or behind neck), c.lp...
    cr.mk XX hado FADC c.mp...
    c.lp c.lp, s.mp XX lk axe kick FADC c.lp...
    ...into one of...
    Everyone: (cl.hp XX mk axe kick, c.mp, hado FADC c.mp...) repeated ad naseum...
    Everyone: (cl.hp XX mk axe kick, c.lp, s.mp XX lk axe kick FADC c.lp...) repeated ad naseum...
    Rufus only: (cl.hp XX mk axe kick, c.lp, c.hp XX mk axe kick, c.lp, s.mp XX lk axe kick FADC c.lp...) repeated ad naseum...
    ...wrapping up with...
    Everyone (except rufus and blanka): (cl.hp XX mk axe kick, c.mp XX lk tatsu)....
    Rufus and blanka: (cl.hp XX mk axe kick, c.lp XX lk tatsu)...
    ...and finally...
    lp dp FADC hk axe kick
    lp dp FADC Ultra (FADC backwards for U2 in the corner)
    lp dp FADC f+mk
    lp dp, hp dp in the corner (though I generally prefer just hp dp for damage in match)
    quick normal (for dash forward cross-under setups on select characters)

    May have messed up on at least one of these. If you are using random block, keep an eye on the combo counter.

    Further thought has to be put into optimal damage/setups during a match, of course. (And many players will replace mk axe kick, c.mp with mk axe kick, c.lp for all characters just for the extra reliability.) But if you're looking for something to practice and have no idea where to start, there you go.

    Long enough practice time and none of this should be too hard to do at least most of the time. (Except for the lk axe kick FADC c.lp link, if you're not abusing select/back button plinking. Better off just replacing any (post lk axe kick FADC) c.lp, cl.hp with just a plinked cl.mp, honestly. If you aren't plinking at all, then I can't help you. Hope your sense of timing is good enough to eventually master true one-frames.)

    I'm not 100% with all of these personally. But when I'm on a roll and fail to drop any of it, it feels pretty good. It's great for bettering execution.

    So yeah, GLHF.
    Post edited by Theli on

    “That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”

  • GefenGefen Joined: Posts: 1,381
    These days I just practice double tapping cr.lp in cl.hp axe mk, cr.lp.
    It's so much harder for me than plinking cr.mp. Probably because my double tap is not tight enough. It should make it a lot more reliable once i master it though.
  • ItsNotJackieChanItsNotJackieChan Joined: Posts: 113
    edited October 2013
    @Theli thanks for the info im going to practice all of this. Also can cr.mp xx light axe kick be interrupted? (during the time between the end of the cr.mp and the start of the light axe kick)

    Edit: And yea my execution is pretty good offline and i do use priority-linking. I have a LOT of trouble online hitting links though
  • TheliTheli Joined: Posts: 1,586
    (crouching) c.mp XX lk axe kick is not a combo.

    standing far mp or crouching mk into lk axe kick is a combo. I do not think that either is a true block string.

    “That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”

  • thebestthebest #electricboogaloo Joined: Posts: 8,529
    far from it, you can get DPed inbetween the mp and the axe kick
  • GefenGefen Joined: Posts: 1,381
    @Theli thanks for the info im going to practice all of this. Also can cr.mp xx light axe kick be interrupted? (during the time between the end of the cr.mp and the start of the light axe kick)

    Edit: And yea my execution is pretty good offline and i do use priority-linking. I have a LOT of trouble online hitting links though

    Is it online problem or a "real match" match? Try setting computer to normal (or hard w/e) and play a couple on minutes against it in the training mode. are your links still ok?

  • ItsNotJackieChanItsNotJackieChan Joined: Posts: 113
    Gefen wrote: »
    Is it online problem or a "real match" match? Try setting computer to normal (or hard w/e) and play a couple on minutes against it in the training mode. are your links still ok?

    It's online
  • GefenGefen Joined: Posts: 1,381
    Only play against green connections, I hope it's not too obvious to state.
  • SonneillonSonneillon Such Reckless Violence, My Hadou Shall Enjoy Consuming Your Soul! Joined: Posts: 218
    Evil Ryu

    - Health 950

    - Crouch Heavy Kick start up is 6 frame

    - Can combo into crouch HK now

    - Foward Medium Kick has better downward hitbox

    - Heavy Axe Kick start up is 25f

    - Target Combo can now be done from far standing MP
    Satsui no Hadou, Only one man can possess such power!

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  • leetfighterleetfighter Joined: Posts: 47
    edited March 2014
    Any help with the chun li match up get beat all the time can't get past her pokes advice needed
  • SonneillonSonneillon Such Reckless Violence, My Hadou Shall Enjoy Consuming Your Soul! Joined: Posts: 218
    Any help with the chun li match up get beat all the time can't get past her pokes advice needed

    YouTube Nagao09

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  • YanushikYanushik Joined: Posts: 92
    Sup guys. I have been working on an android app that will give you a place to keep and share your matchup notes. If you have a chance, please check it out! Thanks =)

    BTW E. Ryu da best.

    https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.yanu.matchup&hl=en
  • magneto's sonmagneto's son The jack of all trades Joined: Posts: 200
    OMG gouken rapes E.ryu something fierce!!!
    empty your cup so that it may be filled; become devoid to gain totality."bruce lee"

    thankx to Fett_Connection for the avatar you da man big time
  • LinksLinks No copyright law in the universe is gonna stop me! Joined: Posts: 956
    OMG gouken rapes E.ryu something fierce!!!

    Why? I actually think the matchup is in Evil Ryu's favor, especially if Evil gets a knockdown early on. Gouken's defense is not great, and Evil Ryu only needs Gouken to make 2 mistakes to get a stun. Honestly I never have issues with this matchup.
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  • magneto's sonmagneto's son The jack of all trades Joined: Posts: 200
    at high level it is a pain to get in, it either fireballs or better normals. The demon flip mix- up it too good for Gouken and he hurts a lot! a patient annoying Gouken wins for free.
    empty your cup so that it may be filled; become devoid to gain totality."bruce lee"

    thankx to Fett_Connection for the avatar you da man big time
  • DonflorisDonfloris Joined: Posts: 90
    edited April 2014
    at high level it is a pain to get in, it either fireballs or better normals. The demon flip mix- up it too good for Gouken and he hurts a lot! a patient annoying Gouken wins for free.

    Yes at high level it is a pain to get in, but we have a multi-hitting fireball and he does not. This hurts his zoning game to much.

    Lame it out (full screen) with MP Shaku - Neutral Jump and focus absorbing his fireballs. Watch out for his SRK Palm attack, because it can go through fireballs. Wait for the demon flip and AA or dash under. Then you can start to apply the pressure. This is battle of patience, both chars can do serious damage to each other when they get that hit. But E.Ryu has the pressure/mixup advantage!

    I play both chars and I agree with Links that once E.Ryu gets in it can go very bad, very fast for Gouken.
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  • gunblade72gunblade72 Joined: Posts: 70
    Gouken definitely beats E.Ryu. Focus against fireballs is an option you never use against Gouken. If you focus absorb and dash forward it's a free sweep for gouken, if you back dash it will be only harder to get in on him. Mp/hp shaku I find are too risky also, the recovery is so bad on them and if if you abuse them Gouken can demon flip and you eat big damage. You can't lame out Gouken too, that's what he wants to do against him. He has the tools to get in from full screen.

    Best way to play the match is just walk forward block fireballs and neutral jump them and match with your own fireball sometimes. If Gouken is mindlessly spamming fireballs from full range do jump hk tatsu and you will get in easily. Eventually the Gouken will make a mistake and you will get in. If the Gouken likes to jump in with demon flip parry anti airing with ex dp is a must because it moves forward and hits 3 times so it will 99% of the time beat it. Hk axe kick is good to use on his wakeup because it beats his parry and it avoids ex tatsu if you time/space it well. Empty jump into hopkick>ex tatsu one wakeup is also good because it blows up ex parry, stand tech, and cr tech but if he cr.techs with cr.mk then just drop the whole hop kick frame trap. Also, if you corner Gouken NEVER end your blockstring in a fireball unless ex because it's a free sweep for Gouken. Just try to continue your block strings but watch out for his sweep when you are walking forward or you can use focus attack to apply pressure because Gouken is weak to focus in close range.

    Ultra 1 is the better ultra in this matchup. It's really hard to do but in mid range you can dash forward and then if he shoots a fireball you can react to it with u1,
  • UCANTBLOCK.. HOLDDATUCANTBLOCK.. HOLDDAT Joined: Posts: 5
    -No divekicks treat gouken like sagat only use meaty dive kick setups(and with diligence at that)
    -Ultra 2 for when Gouken tries to palm through your fireballs... Then uh someone posted some gouken specific combos that I can't get to work but yeah try that
  • LinksLinks No copyright law in the universe is gonna stop me! Joined: Posts: 956
    I hadn't thought too much about the Demon Flip Counter being a problem, but yeah when he Demon Flips I typically either dash under or just block, so eh.

    Also, at certain ranges, like right outside sweep range, you can St. MK or St. MP his fireball and potentially beat it out or trade. It also has a long enough startup that you really don't even need to dash at this range to confirm Ultra - just watch out for FADC.

    That buff to EX Tatsu will be interesting to deal with now... No more abusing Cr. LK on his wakeup I guess.
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  • c4nn0nc4nn0n Would anyone like some pound cake? Joined: Posts: 31
    Yanushik wrote: »
    Sup guys. I have been working on an android app that will give you a place to keep and share your matchup notes. If you have a chance, please check it out! Thanks =)

    BTW E. Ryu da best.

    https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.yanu.matchup&hl=en

    Yoooooooo that's a dope app. I like how I can categorize setups, punishes etc. I got my Infiltration game goin easy. One thing I noticed how do I add the new characters when I get some new tech (i.e. E.Ryu vs Elena)?

  • YanushikYanushik Joined: Posts: 92
    edited May 2014
    Yo C4nn0n thanks for checking it out! There was a bug in the original sf4 notebook that didnt have a new character button. If you dont see a new character button what you CAN do is just look for the .db file and open it on your pc using any sqlite database editor, then just add a row to the characters table and make the character name "New Character" and just give it a picture . Then when you put the notebook back on your app you should see a new character button =)
  • CorkyjayCorkyjay Joined: Posts: 288
    Anyone got any good tips for E.Ryu frame traps i keep getting blown up with buttons
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