***P-Groove Kyo***Offensive Manuvers**

lifetimeboylifetimeboy 1-800-DON'T-PARRY-SHIT!!Joined: Posts: 317
Let's hear it.

P Kyo setups, mixups, crossups, fake crossups,corner crossovers, crossunders, crosscanceling, kara-cancel-cross-setup-combo-chains, gimme your best leet strats on P-Kyo NOW, and please know the dynamics of pgroove if you don't mind.

KUSANAGI!!!!!!!!!!!! YOUR MY HERO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
L.............LIFETIMEBOY.LIFETI
I......................L............L.......M
F......................I............I........E
E.....................F............F.......B
T.....................E............E.....O
I......................T............T...Y
M.....................I............ILIFETI
E.....................M...........M.......M
B.....................E............E.......E
O.....................B............B....B
YLifeTimeBoy...Pgroove=Do not think; feel. Do not seek, for it will come when least expected.

Comments

  • RagingStormXRagingStormX Team Arcade Stream Joined: Posts: 5,201 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Parry- medium punch into whatever. That's about it. :lol: Actually P-Kyo is real good but I don't use him in P, only N and K. I NEED A RUN!!!!





    :wtf:kara-cancel-cross-setup-combo-chains:wtf:
  • lifetimeboylifetimeboy 1-800-DON'T-PARRY-SHIT!! Joined: Posts: 317
    thanks geekboy!! That was some great advice.....It's been a long time since I have heard some really good advice :)
    L.............LIFETIMEBOY.LIFETI
    I......................L............L.......M
    F......................I............I........E
    E.....................F............F.......B
    T.....................E............E.....O
    I......................T............T...Y
    M.....................I............ILIFETI
    E.....................M...........M.......M
    B.....................E............E.......E
    O.....................B............B....B
    YLifeTimeBoy...Pgroove=Do not think; feel. Do not seek, for it will come when least expected.
  • Mickey D'Mickey D' I feel for ya Mummy-B Joined: Posts: 1,828
    Woah this thread would have been good but no one ever posted! Kyo is a friggin BEAST! This post will be revised almost daily so I'll keep updating.

    First of all Kyo's HK throw is probably the best in the game. Kyo's got too many mixups that can be followed up. Kyo must train/force the opponent to block on wake up. Once you got your opponent blocking on wake up, tempo/momentum is being controlled by Kyo and only Kyo. Thats when tick throws come into place and what not. However after the opponent begins to see the throws, he's going to want to tech/hit you out of the throw, this is where counter hits and parry setups come into play.

    After the Hk throw, Kyo can do just about 15 different usefull things to mix up your opopnents mentallity. So with that said.....here it goes


    Follow ups after Hk throw:

    1. Short hop, crosses over
    2. Delay, short hop over, doesn't cross up
    3. Dash, short hop over with lk, land, hk throw
    4. Small hop over, land, lk walk upx3, hk throw
    5. Walk back, then forward, throw
    6. Rdp mk (check side note)
    7. c.lk, c.lk (blocked), small hop, d+hp, hk throw

    Some quick notes about these things....

    -Mixup 1, and 2 are pretty self explanitory. Do the actual cross over once or twice and the opponent will start thinking your always gonna do the cross up. After this starts happening instead just go for mixup 2.

    -Mixup 4 one of the more tricky throw set ups. This is a great way for your Kyo to show that YOU control the pace of the match.

    -Mixup 6 can be pretty tricky. When done immediately after the throw, it will crossup and not hit. If delayed, it will not crossover, instead it will hit. This goes for a nice illusion. I think that against E. Honda if you stand right next to E. honda and do Rdp hk after any knock down it will cross over perfectly.

    Theres so much one can do after the HK throws....note that I'm no where near being even a mid tier player yet....so I'll always be playing around and experimenting to see what I can add.
  • Mickey D'Mickey D' I feel for ya Mummy-B Joined: Posts: 1,828
    Parry setups:

    -c.lk, c.mp, qcf lp...

    Lots of people don't know that this is a completely safe move on block....not only does it push you away far enough from the opponent to be safe, however it's also -5 on block....where as mp rekka's put Kyo at -10 on block.

    If this parry setup works for you at all, you should mainly punish with: c.mp, qcf lpx2, k chain


    -After a knock down, small hop over, c.lk...

    From here a Kyo can go into many various things. If you have just scared your opponent by tick throws, they're most likely gonna get "smart" and try and either hit you out of it with c.lk/c.lp, or tech throw it, I'll go over that in my next post.

    However if your doing the c.lk for the first time, what will most likely happen is a hesitation of the opponent....then a c.lk. At least from my experiences. If the parry set up works according to plan then you can punish with: c.mp, qcf k, k, dp+hk.

    - down+forward hk

    This move gives +/-0...it's completely safe. After this move, a lot of people will try and counter with their furthest hitting crouching attack, mainly down hk from my experiences. The beginning frames of their attack allow you to aim for a down parry. This is a pretty good setup, people don't really know that d+f hk is safe.

    - d.hk

    This move puts you at an astounding -2. It's obvious that the sweep is really unpunishable however it is also common knowledge that most other sweeps put you at like -12 or more. With that in mind, since opponents will try and hit you with something low. It's pretty effective in my eyes really.

    - qcf hp delay a little, hcb hp.

    These rekkas are deadly. The qcf hp has 4 frames of auto guard. If no delay is input your still put at +1 yet extremely close to your opponent. Their first insentive will be to throw you. Keep this in mind and tech their throw. Through my experiences almost 90% of the people I tech hit low with a d.hk. Parry into a combo

    However, if you DID put that delay in the rekka chain, you can do one of a few options. You could have hit your opponent with a counter hit allowing you to continue with your rekka or possibly reset into a throw or another combo. Or they could have blocked both chains (the most obvious). However if they did block both chains, it's possible for you to be at +4. Most people don't know that Kyo has a frame advantage after this. So keep this in mind. Most people throw out a d.hk.

    ***MORE TO COME***
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    make it a point to not fall into patterns, mixup characters die when they can't get the random going. whenever i use kyo i find the best tool i have is whiffing shit over someone's body (after RH throw), followed closely by dash, block, and low jump d+HP
  • Mickey D'Mickey D' I feel for ya Mummy-B Joined: Posts: 1,828
    ragnafrak wrote:
    make it a point to not fall into patterns, mixup characters die when they can't get the random going. whenever i use kyo i find the best tool i have is whiffing #### over someone's body (after RH throw), followed closely by dash, block, and low jump d+HP

    Nice one ragnafrak...thats a solid way to keep your opponent from guessing what your gonna do. In my opinion P kyo's main game plan:

    Have your opponent keep guessing what your going to do. Start a pattern that the opponent can clearly see, then throw in a position where the enemy thinks it is safe to attack....thus a parry can be put in place, leading into huge amounts of damage.
  • Mickey D'Mickey D' I feel for ya Mummy-B Joined: Posts: 1,828
    I posted a few more parry setups so check em out and tell me what you think.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I know P-Kyo mixup destroys me, but I don't play P, or Kyo.

    knockdown...*GRIN*...parry/c.lk/far sweep/f+hp xx damage.
  • Legendary GokouLegendary Gokou 210Nem Joined: Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I got this by accident the other day. Worked pretty well when I thought about it.


    cr short (blocked) st jab (whiff usually unless large character) option select cr mp. Beats mashers pretty well, and easy to set up a throw after you've conditioned them to block.
    CFN: 210Nem
    SFV Karin
  • Mickey D'Mickey D' I feel for ya Mummy-B Joined: Posts: 1,828
    I got this by accident the other day. Worked pretty well when I thought about it.


    cr short (blocked) st jab (whiff usually unless large character) option select cr mp. Beats mashers pretty well, and easy to set up a throw after you've conditioned them to block.


    That is some good stuff LG thanks. Like you said, if the option select works out, it conditions them for a tick throw, which leads up into more different mixxy setups. Thanks I'm gonna have to try that out!
  • Mickey D'Mickey D' I feel for ya Mummy-B Joined: Posts: 1,828
    Gosh...now that I look back at this stuff I see how much I've grown as a player. Ignore like half of my stuff. There are way to many errors to even reconsider to take care of. After rh throws we only know that Kyo can just do way to much. The parry setups that I listed are indeed setups however they don't benefit from the parry to well. All I can see is that you can get another knockdown with Kyo. Which is still good, however nothing compared to his massive combos.

    ****IMPORTANT****
    A thing that I never realized with Kyo is his nasty meaty s.mp. After knockdowns use this meaty. It gives hella block stun allowing Kyo to walk up a step or two. After that you can throw or counter hit c.lk. If your opponent tried to dp, the meaty will beat it and you can link c.mp into combo. Good stuff
  • #reload#reload huh Joined: Posts: 853
    Mickey D' wrote:
    If your opponent tried to dp, the meaty will beat it and you can link c.mp into combo. Good stuff

    reversal dp has invincibility from the time you're waking up until the it goes away from the DP, so there won't ever be a non-invincible frame

    summary: reversal dp > meaty
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    no one gets reversal DPs out 100% of the time, when you do a meaty attack and they attempt a DP (and fail), you get a free combo. obviously you can't always DP on wakeup, and kyo can't always meaty you on your wakeup.

    PS: i like meaty c.LKs more and more lately, they give your enemy less time to react to your wakeup shit. less options = more frustration = more wakeup DPs = more death combos for kyo ;)
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    s.mp meaty on wakeup,done on a shoto for example is a bad idea. Even if both players time it right dp will win or trade, not favorable for kyo.
    I use f+hp from a relative far distance is more meaty and less risky to my believe. qcf+hp on wake up when time perfectly, I been told it can beat dp. As far as you time the 4 frames of AG right on his wake up.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    The Shoto isn't going to wake up with a reversal DP every single time. A good Kyo trains him to be hesistant with wake-up DP by option select blocking over his body and punishing every single wake-up DP attempt with either far s.MP xx combo if it was a jab DP, or close s.HK xx launching kicks juggle if it was a fierce DP. Meaty close s.MP/d.MP then becomes a very useful tool for Kyo as he can both easily tick throw off it or work the counter hits if he so desires.

    I think using either f+HP or the qcf+HP moves are weak and just as risky and you get less reward (in qcf+HP's case, even more risky because you have way less control over it and will lose to wake-up low shorts for free). Might at well use d.MK or far s.HK from max range as a meaty attack in those cases. The tips of d.MK and far s.HK are invincible and immune to wake-ups for sure at least. I have no clue what the hitboxes for f+HP and the qcf+HP move look like.

    Be aggressive and use close s.MP and d.LK as your meaty attacks. Kick throw the opponent all day once he gets scared and starts to block as he gets up. To counter the throws and meaties, he'll resort to wake-up DP which you read, block, and punish him harder for if he had just sat there and taken the throw. I think Kyo is at his strongest when he's on the offensive and aggressive, and to be offensive and aggressive, you can't be scared of a silly little DP.
  • Mickey D'Mickey D' I feel for ya Mummy-B Joined: Posts: 1,828
    Good tips kang
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    i'm scared of ken's DP ;[
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    kcxj wrote:
    I think using either f+HP or the qcf+HP moves are weak and just as risky and you get less reward (in qcf+HP's case, even more risky because you have way less control over it and will lose to wake-up low shorts for free).

    Not necessarily low shorts dont have enough range to stop the hook style punch. Plus you can always do hcb+p afters it, which leaves you at +1 on the block i believe. Plus you are at throw range afterwards.

    kcxj wrote:
    Meaty close s.MP/d.MP then becomes a very useful tool for Kyo as he can both easily tick throw off it or work the counter hits if he so desires.

    I dont see how you going to throw somebody after a block s.mp or c.mp they both push you out throw range. You will have to walk slightly forward and go for the grab which wont work on good players.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Not necessarily low shorts dont have enough range to stop the hook style punch. Plus you can always do hcb+p afters it, which leaves you at +1 on the block i believe. Plus you are at throw range afterwards.
    hcb+HP is -8 on block, +1 on hit, the starting qcf+HP leaves you at -11, too gimmicky man
    I dont see how you going to throw somebody after a block s.mp or c.mp they both push you out throw range. You will have to walk slightly forward and go for the grab which wont work on good players.
    either of them meaty can leave you with up to around +11, you can definitely tick throw with it
    ragnafrak wrote:
    i'm scared of ken's DP ;[
    kang's ken ;[ See you at NEC BITCH heh
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Thats right, got the numbers twisted -11 on the block if you stop the combo, can always do c.lk and start a new chain. If done at a right distance event at -11 they wont be a able to retaliate. Except for character like Yama, Bison with quick specials.

    Close s.mp leaves you at 0 on the block dont know where the +11 comes from?
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    ***P-Groove Kyo***Newbie Thread** :party:

    The close s.MP is a meaty attack (ie. the opponent gets up into it). The frame data may say it's zero on the hit or block, but timed meaty you can get up to +11 or whatever 12 active hitting frames will let you get.

    Meaty close s.MP, d.MP will combo when timed properly so you can see for youself. Walking up and throwing after the meaty close s.MP gets good players all the time (since they're smart to just block). Against mashers, counter hit d.MP will counter hit them all day.

    qcf+HP has three active hitting frames, but the frames you'll be wanting to use to counter a DP are the four autoguard frames. Again, those autoguard frames are totally vulnerable to low shorts though, and you get more damage potential off a meaty close s.MP/d.MP or a d.LK anyway.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    kcxj wrote:
    ***P-Groove Kyo***Newbie Thread** :party:

    The close s.MP is a meaty attack (ie. the opponent gets up into it). The frame data may say it's zero on the hit or block, but timed meaty you can get up to +11 or whatever 12 active hitting frames will let you get.

    Meaty close s.MP, d.MP will combo when timed properly so you can see for youself. Walking up and throwing after the meaty close s.MP gets good players all the time (since they're smart to just block). Against mashers, counter hit d.MP will counter hit them all day.

    qcf+HP has three active hitting frames, but the frames you'll be wanting to use to counter a DP are the four autoguard frames. Again, those autoguard frames are totally vulnerable to low shorts though, and you get more damage potential off a meaty close s.MP/d.MP or a d.LK anyway.

    That all sounds like a good random strategy. I just dont see it really practical, But to each one its own. :clap:
  • Mickey D'Mickey D' I feel for ya Mummy-B Joined: Posts: 1,828
    Trust me, meaty s.mp is not a random strategey. Its probably one of the best meaties in the entire game. It gives Kyo amazing setups:

    - walk forward, opction select > c.mp counter hit rekka's
    - walk forward throw
    - free low jump
    - link d.mp into rekka's

    I find that Kyo should always go for the mixups after his bnb, granted however that he's not pushed into the corner, unless you have some other 2p gimick that he's got. All in all, Kyo's meaty s.mp sets up all the other setups that he doesn't get out of other mixups that he has.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Of all the good Kyo players I know including me. Is rare the ocassion they do s.mp on the wakeup on shotos or players with a wake up. Dont get me wrong i use it but only on players like bison,blanka, chunli etc. Those top tiers than dont have a wake up move, except for their level 3. s.mp on a shote is futile most of the time.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Of all the good Kyo players I know including me. Is rare the ocassion they do s.mp on the wakeup on shotos or players with a wake up. Dont get me wrong i use it but only on players like bison,blanka, chunli etc. Those top tiers than dont have a wake up move, except for their level 3. s.mp on a shote is futile most of the time.
    what the what?
  • Mickey D'Mickey D' I feel for ya Mummy-B Joined: Posts: 1,828
    This thread is complete utter bull #### but then I had to go into my fanboyism's and start posting stuff....son of a bitch, SRK is only good for GD and nothing but.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Of all the good Kyo players I know including me.
    Meaty attacks are overrated. I'm still not about to start using qcf+HP or f+HP as my new meaty attacks though. Where's my reward when I'm successful?

    qcf+HP gets you the fierce punch chain (which you can stop at hcb+P if you want). f+HP gets you a knockdown (and you can randomly cancel into qcb, hcf+P super if you want).

    What if the opponent doesn't wake up with a DP but with mash on wake-up throw instead? Don't you want your maximum reward? Meaty close s.MP isn't always the answer, but that's what you also have meaty d.LK for. If you land a meaty close s.MP, which counters a wake-up throw clean, you can link into d.MP xx qcf+LP chain (which leaves you in better position than had you done the qcf+HP chain) or hit confirm a d.LK xx qcf+LK, juggle with super when you're close to the corner. A meaty d.LK lets you hit confirm, link combo also into the qcf+LP chain. When you have super ready to go, low shorts chained into the launching kicks is one of the most useful combos Kyo has.

    The overall best option to attacking the other guy as he gets up (whether he has a DP or not, and especially when you haven't gotten a good read on the player yet also) is to still stand right over his body, block low or input a low parry, then kick throw or counter hit low short. It's not perfect, but it's that option select that counters the most possible options the opponent is most likely to wake up with.

    I'm looking at that, "doing a meaty close s.MP on a shoto is a bad idea" post and I still can't get it off my chest how much I disagree with that statement. But yeah, to each his own though and I've presented my side of the argument if you ever consider changing your mind.


    Blanka, Bison, and Chun all have wake-up Super/CC and RC elec/ball, RC crusher/RC devil's reverse/teleport, and RC legs (linkable into a super) respectively.

    I admit that wake-up RC's aren't as easy to do as a wake-up DP. You only have a one frame window to get your roll out as opposed to the two frame window you get for a reversal special. People I've played with practice those reversal RC's hardcore though. I don't know if they just like taking the easy way out, or their brains are just stuck and convinced that "RC everything" makes them a good player, but just because a character doesn't have a naturally invincible reversal, I don't ever assume it's totally safe to attack them as they get up even when they don't have meter.


    edit: Boooo to all the Ken players that wake up with Level 3 Shinryuken. :rofl: Sorry, I forgot how many times I've died to that stupid thing whenever I do try to meaty attack people with meter as they get up (which is a horribly, horribly unnecessary risk I have a bad habit of taking).

    I've also played a bunch of dense players that always want to wake up with a shoto DP no matter what as well. Even if I've punished them hard with a far s.MP combo after blocking the wake up DP, I don't know if it's out of stubbornness or what, but they keep doing wake up DPs anyway. I think it's safe to meaty attack them the next time, but then *boom* shoryuken again.

    Anyway, from the people you play with in your area, you're probably right about your statement of meaty attacks being a bad idea then. Random > meaties any day of the week. The people I play with in my area are a little more controlled, so that's why I'm not scared to use my meaty attacks on them.

    There's a vid of OTK almost losing to random C-Morrigan guy at Texas Showdown if anybody wants to see what I mean. The guy was free wins for everybody else, but OTK must of seriously been overestimating him and as a result, was getting destroyed by all sorts of stuff he would of never expected any other player to use.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    ragnafrak wrote:
    what the what?

    oh yeah, What??
    :confused:


    I just see the abuse of meatys like geese counters (randomness)

    You dont know whether is gona work or not, you just do it hoping that your opponent messes up. Some people is predictable, but still you cant read people minds and know when they gonna wake up on dp or lv3.
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