N ken os question

TNBTNB Bye.Joined: Posts: 1,180
What are some os's with N ken? Particularly, but limited to, wakeup.

Chun? Does anyone ever even use them?

Some for n ryu as well please.
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Comments

  • moocusmoocus internets? Joined: Posts: 869
    besides dp installs in a jump in, i don't think he has any. his funky kick motion ruins any kind of throw/dp os. damdai mentioned somewhere that late kara cancelling a low roundhouse into fireball could maybe be used as a footsie os, but that might just be based on assuming that the roundhouse has an active attack hitbox before it gets kara'd. i don't know if anyone has actually done any kind of testing to confirm if that's true, though.

    this isn't really unique to ken, but: when i get crossed up on wakeup, i do an srk motion ending in the direction i need to be blocking in, followed by negative edging the punches (i usually just use jab). if your timing was off, you just block, and if the dp comes out it hits them probably 8 or 9 times out of 10.

    i do the same thing with boxer when he tries to do that cross under bullshit after a grab. do the srk motion ending in crouch block (kind of a guess as to what side he's going to end up on, though) and negative edge. you should either get a dp if you guessed right, and if not you'll just be crouch blocking. this one is risky though because your timing needs to be tight, plus if you're going to negative edge with fierce and strong also you need to make sure they're close enough for it to knock down.

    my shit isn't all that great, i hope someone else chimes in with stuff that doesn't suck.
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  • TheUtilityGirlTheUtilityGirl Joined: Posts: 155
    Actually n.ken does have some cr.lk(2x) dp motion lk+lp there's some out there.
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  • YouLaggyPOSYouLaggyPOS Joined: Posts: 64
    Actually n.ken does have some cr.lk(2x) dp motion lk+lp there's some out there.


    Are you referring to cr.lk (x2) to super? That's not an option select. That's just a hit confirm...
  • ComedyBlissOptionComedyBlissOption Joined: Posts: 65
    Inputting a dragon punch so that you will get a dp input for both sides is also important if you're up against claw wall dives on your wakeup.

    You can option select any special cancellable normal into fireballs/funky kicks that will only cancel if it connects. You could use this against sim limbs for example.
  • moocusmoocus internets? Joined: Posts: 869
    laggypos: seems like a lot of people have been confusing hit confirms with option selects lately
    Inputting a dragon punch so that you will get a dp input for both sides is also important if you're up against claw wall dives on your wakeup.

    is there an easy input for this? with claws wall dives i usually just negative edge an srk with all punches in the direction i think i need to block. if you have a more reliable way to deal with it then please share
    You can option select any special cancellable normal into fireballs/funky kicks that will only cancel if it connects. You could use this against sim limbs for example.

    that's just buffering a special move, not really an os.

    i'm still waiting on a verdict with kara-ing crouch roundhouse into fireball. does anyone know if it can be kara'd after an active hitbox is present?
  • TheUtilityGirlTheUtilityGirl Joined: Posts: 155
    Are you referring to cr.lk (x2) to super? That's not an option select. That's just a hit confirm...

    No I'm not you can do super however
    Inputting a dragon punch so that you will get a dp input for both sides is also important if you're up against claw wall dives on your wakeup.

    You can option select any special cancellable normal into fireballs/funky kicks that will only cancel if it connects. You could use this against sim limbs for example.

    Hold fierce dp motion end in forward release you will either block or uppercut vs vega.
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  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    If the active hitbox is present, it's not a kara....

    It is, that's why special canceling happens in SF2 in the first place.

    The two main option selects are DP-installs and negative edge hadouken.
  • PaskyPasky Ninja with pistol! Joined: Posts: 1,863
    it is, that's why special canceling happens in sf2 in the first place.
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  • moocusmoocus internets? Joined: Posts: 869
    pasky: i figured as much, but i wonder why damdai would consider the possibility? i don't remember where i heard him mention it. if someone else knows what i'm referring to, can you hook up the link to it? i've seen japanese players kara crouch roundhouse into fireball when they're in footsie range too. is it just for flash, or does it have a specific purpose?

    it seems like there are a few new people who don't quite understand specific terminology. the board is probably dead enough to warrant you asking a question about something and getting an answer without much trouble. but, when you clusterfuck terms together that you don't quite fully understand, it makes it hard to comprehend what you're trying to say. just some free advice.
  • damdaidamdai www.damdai.com Joined: Posts: 1,079
    Check this vid.
    I kara a crouch roundhouse when it's fully extended. When does the hitbox becomes active on that move?
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  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    Moocus, IDK the answer to your question, but theoretically I think it's possible. We know startup frames can be cancelled, so can active hit frames. So it makes sense that the sweep can be option-selected to cancel into a Shoryuken on hit/block or whiff. Also, I see Dark Gaiden do that a lot vs Zangief. That way if the Zangief players walked forward he would be sweeped, and if he jumped he would be anti-aired by the Shoryuken. It'd prolly have to be cancelled on the fast side of things tho IMO.

    Edit: sweep hits on the 5th frame according to YBH.
  • moocusmoocus internets? Joined: Posts: 869
    this is all really interesting. if roundhouse is active on the 5th frame, the question that presents itself is how many frames do you get before it stops being kara cancellable? aside from that, you gotta have some frame specific timing to hit that window inbetween the first active frame and last kara cancellable frame. it certainly looks like damdai accomplishes this in the video.

    i suppose i'm a believer now. after i come back from my midterm tonight i'm going to have some fun in training mode.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Pasky must have some fixation or the like. Not sure if I should keep ignoring him, but he's not my type.

    Anyway, crouching forward hits on the 4th frame. When you press a button, it will take 3 frames to give you throws or air and special attacks, and 4 frames to give you a grounded normal. Thus, it is possible to do damdai's option select SRK-throw and not see the roundhouse kick: just press Jab exactly one frame after pressing Roundhouse.

    In WW, impact freeze extended the kara-cancel period. That glitch allowed moves that hit fast enough to be canceled into specials on hit. ST has exceptions, such as Fei's moves and some others NH2 and Maj would probably tell us.

    I myself posted somewhere else Ryu's option select walk-up sweep xx SRK or super, which I have learned by watching a video from Alex Valle. It also involves canceling a move that is active but does not hit into a move.

    Damdai, that Ryu movie is really cool. I wish it were longer and had move tips. And SRKn'ing Claws faggy ass on reaction is damn hard!
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,568
    i kara cancel cr. rh (fully extended) to jab srk all the time.

    works especially good in the corner.
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  • ComedyBlissOptionComedyBlissOption Joined: Posts: 65
    I tested on frame advance on turbo 1 and you can kara cancel the first two active frames of n.ryu's crouching roundhouse (4-5f after inputting c.rh). If it hits, you will also still cancel into the special.

    I think this can be generally applied to all normals in the game. I think generally you can cancel normals 1-5f after the initial input even if they are active frames. You can kara cancel the active frames of ryu's far hk which has a 3f startup even though it isn't special cancellable. I think this means you can basically kara cancel the active frames of any move with less than 6 frames of startup. I'm going to test this more to confirm this.

    Being able to stick out a hitbox and still cancel the whiff into a special move is pretty huge. Is this common knowledge?

    I think a normal would need a 2-4f startup (like ryu's c.hk) to really make this practical.
  • ComedyBlissOptionComedyBlissOption Joined: Posts: 65
    I found a practical use of this with claw. On someone's wakeup, do meaty c.mp which has 4f startup. On the 4th or 5th frame of the c.mp, press kkk flip. This will always result in a kkk flip since c.mp is special cancellable. However, if the opponent does an invincible reversal move, you will flip backwards instead of get hit by the reversal as you normally would. Depending on the reversal you can punish after you flip back.

    I was hoping for something like this with gief w/ his c.mk which has a 4f startup. This would be useful in situations where you're too far to safe meaty a c.lk. Unfortunately, gief can only seemingly kara cancel for 1-4f after the c.mk, so there's only a 1f window where you can kara cancel the whiffed active frame into lariat.

    Ken can kara cancel 1-5f after a normal on turbo 1.
    Ryu can only kara cancel 1-4f after a normal on turbo 3! Speed affects kara cancels.
  • moocusmoocus internets? Joined: Posts: 869
    booooo claw strats
  • PaskyPasky Ninja with pistol! Joined: Posts: 1,863
    Ya, just tried that myself....never knew you could cancel a normal with an active hitbox into a special.

    I be dumb yo.
    Ken can kara cancel 1-5f after a normal on turbo 1.
    Ryu can only kara cancel 1-4f after a normal on turbo 3! Speed affects kara cancels.

    This is probably due to a frame being dropped depending on the turbo settings, there was an article somewhere that explained what happened to ST on different turbo settings and basically the faster you set it, the more frames the game actually drops, which explains some of the random time frame windows for inputs.
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  • moocusmoocus internets? Joined: Posts: 869
    this is really hard to do consistantly. kudos is you can be honest with yourself and know for sure you're hitting that sweet spot.

    heh, hitting that frame window reminds of those ticket games where you have to make the rotating light land in the jackpot zone. i suck at those games.
  • PaskyPasky Ninja with pistol! Joined: Posts: 1,863
    this is really hard to do consistantly. kudos is you can be honest with yourself and know for sure you're hitting that sweet spot.

    heh, hitting that frame window reminds of those ticket games where you have to make the rotating light land in the jackpot zone. i suck at those games.


    I wouldn't worry about trying to time it so much. Just do the sweep and even if you cancel to an SRK during startup frames....you still get a SRK, having the hitbox go active is just an extra.
    <Pasky> so you can go extra fast by just holding it?
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  • JULJUL Joined: Posts: 13
    hi,

    I have been thinking about an other possible os with n ken, i need your opinion about that.

    Ken 's close st lk is chain cancellable right, so you can renda cancel it into a dragon punch.
    However, if you try to do this on a dummy, you'll notice that the timing is weird compared to a renda cancel out of a cr lk : you have to wait a bit more before renda cancelling the dragon punch.
    But if you try now, to do this after a whiffed close st lk (your opponent is knocked down) you'll notice that the timing is the same as for a cr lk (faster timing).

    Here is the idea, as your opponent is waking up, to do a meaty close standing lk renda cancelled into a srk with a fast timing.

    - if the close st lk hits, no srk comes out, and you can follow up with a cr lk into srk (safe on block) or go for the throw.

    - if your opponent lands a reversal, the close st lk will whiff and your srk will come out.

    Is it a viable technique in your opinion?
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    This is hard to do, since you need to go neutral and hit Short, then input the rest of the SRK command fast enough. Any mistake will cause a funky kick to come out. Also, I do not see what the advantage of this over cr.Fwd (kara) xx Jab SRK would be.
  • JULJUL Joined: Posts: 13
    I think you don't get it.
    It would be a renda cancel, not a kara cancel : close standing short (no need to go to neutral for that, you can do that holding forward if you want) then srk move + lk + lp.
    You won't never get any funcky kicks doing that move.
    cr.Fwd(kara) xx Jab SRK is way more difficult to do and you will get the dragon punch whether the cr.Fwd hits or whiffes.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    A renda cancel is a type of kara cancel, but anyway, let me see if I understand what you want:
    (1) Whiff a cl.Short, and (chain) cancel it into another cl.Short that hits as soon as the enemy wakes up. Almost that same instant, you do a SRK, so that if the move does not connect - hit or block - you cancel it into the invulnerable special move? This would not work, because the move is not special-cancelable. The moves that can be canceled into specials are the ones which can be kara canceled while active.

    If you want to (2) whiff cl.Short, then (chain) canel into cl.Short and renda cancel into the SRK, you would need to find a way to finish the motion within canceling into another crouching Short and renda canceling the next one. This is close to 6 frames minus frame skipping, which is probably hard without a programmable pad. Like, whiff cl.Short, input cl.Short as you start the SRK motion, finish right after it hits and input Short~+Jab so you can avoid an invulnerable reversal. Should be possible in WW, CE and Super, though, which are slower.
  • JULJUL Joined: Posts: 13
    again, it seems that you misheard me.

    however the (2) approaches what i meant, except i didn't speak about two cl.Short, but only one.

    => cl.short + f, d, df+lk+lp
    The dragon punch is kara cancelled out of a crouching light kick which itself is chain cancelled out of the cl.short = renda cancel (yes i know the renda cancel is a kara cancel combined with chain cancelling)

    The thing is, for a reason i ignore, if you want to chain cancel a crouching lk after a cl.lk that hits, the timing is not the same as for "rapid fire chain cancelling" (cr lk x n) .
    You have to wait a bit before doing the cr lk if you want it to get out (and so do you if you want to renda cancel a dragon punch out of the cl.lk).
    If the cl.lk doesn't hit (whiff because timed too early or because the opponent performes a reversal) the timing to get a crouching lk after the cl.lk is the same as for "rapid fire chain cancelling".

    So the idea is to renda cancel very fast a dragon punch out of a meaty cl.lk (i can do that easily) :
    - if the meaty hits, no dragon gets out and you can continue with a cr lk into dragon punch for example.
    - if the meaty whiffes, your dragon punch gets out.

    Although i'm not sure the active frame window is large enough to do it consistently (2 frames).
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    I see. This still seems very hard without a programmable pad. And the reason the timing changes is impact freeze. There is stuff about in the wiki and in Chen's blog.
  • F-A-M-I-L-Y ManF-A-M-I-L-Y Man feedin you and feedin you Joined: Posts: 229
    :f:+:mk:, :d:, :df:+:lp:. In theory, I feel like this should work, but I can't get it to work in practice. I can't seem to kara cancel the st. mk. Maybe my execution is just terrible.
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  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    :f:+:mk:, :d:, :df:+:lp:. In theory, I feel like this should work, but I can't get it to work in practice. I can't seem to kara cancel the st. mk. Maybe my execution is just terrible.
    Don't bother, man. This does not work for the same reason cl.Fierce :qcf:x2 + :p: does not: one needs a programmable pad to do it.
  • F-A-M-I-L-Y ManF-A-M-I-L-Y Man feedin you and feedin you Joined: Posts: 229
    Is that because forward is not special cancelable? In that case, what about :f:+:mp:~:hp:, :d:, :df:+:lp:? It wouldn't be as great as having the knee bash, but it seems like it should work.
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  • moocusmoocus internets? Joined: Posts: 869
    Is that because forward is not special cancelable?

    it's because you have to be a machine to input that, regardless of what you're kara-ing off of. i've played with this concept a while ago and it's not something a person can do consistantly in matches, if at all.
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