Street Fighter 4

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  • vasili10vasili10 Forever waits Joined: Posts: 4,235
    TAS wrote:
    Yeah, in the second of her two (known) designs, she has the beads on.

    She also had a thrid design for when she was a little girl, which if I remember correctly looked alot like Anita from Darkstalkers (cept with smaller eyes)

    A third design? And she's younger than Ryu and Ken? Where did you get this info from, TAS? And how do you know that Edayan used Ojou-san to come up with Sakura? I haven't been able to find that yet.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    And she's younger than Ryu and Ken? Where did you get this info from, TAS?

    I thought the plot guide stated that she was younger then Ryu and Ken, or maybe it was that she was older (I can't remember which now) but I thought I remember seeing art of her where she was with Ryu and Ken, and younger then them.
    And how do you know that Edayan used Ojou-san to come up with Sakura?

    It was an interview with one of the SF designers, but I can't remember if it was Bengus, Akiman, Kinu, or Edayan that said it. I remember someone saying how when Edayan started designing characters for SF and Rival Schools, that he looked at alot of unused character designs for insperation, mostly Bengus' stuff since apparently Edayan is Bengus' understudy, however not all his designs were inspired by other stuff, but some of the RS designs (and things about the game) were inspired by Evangelion.
  • DaemosDaemos God of Fuck Joined: Posts: 688
    @TAS
    A few things...

    1) Goku is a male name, and most everyone will view it that way, so its just always going to cause alot of confusion if you call a girl Goku.

    2) Goku is the name of the legendary Monkey God in Japanese Mythology, and only characters that are inspired by the legend (like Goku from Dragonball/Z/GT) like unless she has something to do with the legend it dosn't make much sense to name her Goku, plus trying to name someone Goku in this day and age is seriously kinda hard given the most popular anime character on the planet goes by that name.

    3) If Im not mistaken Gouken's daughter would be like in her 30s, she's only like 5 years younger then Ryu and Ken, and its kinda odd that she could turn so evil so quick after 30+ years of going without it.

    4) Are people going to be able to look at Gouken's daughter as a full fleged character and not thing "Sakura rip off" I mean in appearence she probaly wouldn't look like her, but her moves would if she uses anything like what her father used.

    1- Ok I didn't know that. =D

    2- I just found that out recently so I want to change the name even more now. But I'll refer to her as Goku until I find the right one.

    Names I'm considering are Ada (Revenge), Hana-Kei (Flower-thorn) or Otomei (combination of otome and mei which means dark daughter). What do you think? Got any suggestions?

    3- Well that's how old I assumed her to be actually. In my SF4 story, it is assumed that 'Goku' has trained under her father from an early age till he died and was also trained by other masters over the years, picking up several styles and incorporating them with each other. The 'evil intent' that plagued Ryu only struck when he was younger and a weaker fighter, when he got older he outgrew it. So Goku is probably at the stage where she is vulnerable to Evil Intent. Add the fact that she is driven by vengeance and negative emotion. It is assumed in this SF4 story that she witnessed the fight between her uncle and father take place before her very eyes.

    4- She is far from Sakura and Makoto in terms of skill and gameplay. She probably will have same basic moves such as a projectile and dragonpunch but I don't think she will execute them in the same manner we've grown accustom to. She is the main character in my story, so I hope that I can develop her as much as I can.

    Again if anyone is interested in giving my character designs a shot please do, you can find them here.
    {When my Martian moon
    is overshadowed by your Jovian chests
    I become bald
    And grow several breasts}
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    Names I'm considering are Ada (Revenge), Hana-Kei (Flower-thorn) or Otomei (combination of otome and mei which means dark daughter). What do you think? Got any suggestions?

    Well when I named the my SF Neo characters, fortunatly almost all the characters had names even those who had never been actual fighters (like Mel, Amy, and Datta) but I had to look up some stuff for the chars that had no names, although there was only one official character that I had that didn't have a name and that was Chun Li's daughter, but I also made it so that Chun Li had a (adopted) son as well, not to mention made Sakura have a kid too, so I just looked up some Japanese words, and named Sakura's son "Tenshi" which means "Angel" as in "her little angel" then named Chun Li's son "Yoshitego" a combination of the words "Abandoned Child" and "Orphan" while Yoshi's posessed for I called Tenma which means "Evil Spirit" which is how a I came up with "Mayoke" for Chun Li's daughter which means "Charm Against Evil Spirits"

    Anyways Otomei sounds the best. Its the easiest to say (aside from "Ada" which is already the name of a Capcom character)
    The 'evil intent' that plagued Ryu only struck when he was younger and a weaker fighter, when he got older he outgrew it. So Goku is probably at the stage where she is vulnerable to Evil Intent. Add the fact that she is driven by vengeance and negative emotion.

    Its not really like that though.

    The Satsu No Hadou comes from basicly a negative desire within a fighter, its not really an evil intent. It happend to Ryu because he desired to always win, or win at no matter what the cost, while in Akuma's case it came from the desire to be the strongest, however I don't know that "revenge" or "the desire to kill" would trigger it, because Dan had those same motives with Sagat and it never triggered itself within him, so Im wondering if those motives woulc/could even activate/trigger it.
  • coco_jcoco_j Joined: Posts: 330
    Names I'm considering are Ada (Revenge), Hana-Kei (Flower-thorn) or Otomei (combination of otome and mei which means dark daughter). What do you think? Got any suggestions?
    I agree with TAS that Otomei sounds best. I was actually thinking today for names for your character, I thought Yuri would be cool, cos it's Ryu backwards, but then again it would cause too much confusion with SNK's Yuri.
    Otomei is a nice name.
    Its not really like that though.

    The Satsu No Hadou comes from basicly a negative desire within a fighter, its not really an evil intent. It happend to Ryu because he desired to always win, or win at no matter what the cost, while in Akuma's case it came from the desire to be the strongest, however I don't know that "revenge" or "the desire to kill" would trigger it, because Dan had those same motives with Sagat and it never triggered itself within him, so Im wondering if those motives woulc/could even activate/trigger it.

    Well then why did Gouken kick Dan out?
  • DaemosDaemos God of Fuck Joined: Posts: 688
    Anyways Otomei sounds the best. Its the easiest to say (aside from "Ada" which is already the name of a Capcom character)

    I kinda like Ada, which Capcom character has that name. Otomei isn't a real Japanese word as far as I know but it works so I may very well go with it. Thanks for your input though.
    The Satsu No Hadou comes from basicly a negative desire within a fighter, its not really an evil intent. It happend to Ryu because he desired to always win, or win at no matter what the cost, while in Akuma's case it came from the desire to be the strongest, however I don't know that "revenge" or "the desire to kill" would trigger it, because Dan had those same motives with Sagat and it never triggered itself within him, so Im wondering if those motives woulc/could even activate/trigger it.

    Perhaps Dan didn't have the right 'mix' or background for SNH to kick it, otherwise every fighter with a strong desire to win or become the strongest would fall for SNH. I imagine Gouken's daughter has a desire to kill Akuma no matter what the cost, no matter what obstacle comes in her way, she must have her revenge. Although she doesn't quite give in to SNH in my SF4 quite yet, mainly because of Ryu's influence but when she comes in contact with Akuma at last, her story, along with Ryu's take a drastic change. :smile:

    EDIT-
    I agree with TAS that Otomei sounds best. I was actually thinking today for names for your character, I thought Yuri would be cool, cos it's Ryu backwards, but then again it would cause too much confusion with SNK's Yuri.
    Otomei is a nice name.

    Well that settles it. Otomei it is. :tup:

    Also, I think Dan got kicked out cuz Gouken didn't like Dan training purely for the sake of avenging his father's death at the hands of Sagat.
    {When my Martian moon
    is overshadowed by your Jovian chests
    I become bald
    And grow several breasts}
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    Yeah, Dan got booted cos he wanted to use their style to kill Sagat. That's the principle Gouken is firmly against, hence his splitting off into an alternate form of Ansatsuken. So it's possible that had Dan been properly trained in Ansatsuken that he could have fallen into SNH. I suppose he never did anyway because (a) He usually got knocked the fuck out before he could even get desperate to win, and being such an overconfident air-head, the prospect of losing probably didn't enter his mind. And (b) Sagat threw the match anyway so Dan probably beat him quite easy.

    As for Otomei, I think it depends on whether she's been actively fighting all these years or simply training. SNH seems to manifest itself in actual combat rather than training because obviously the fighter isn't fighting anyone in training.

    So it would make sense for SNH to start tempting her during the tournament as she's actively fighting and striving for a goal. She CANNOT lost because she wishes to fight and kill Akuma. So this intense drive to win and desire to kill would unleash SNH pretty strongly within her. Think of all that pent up anger brewing all those years? :P
  • DaemosDaemos God of Fuck Joined: Posts: 688
    As for Otomei, I think it depends on whether she's been actively fighting all these years or simply training. SNH seems to manifest itself in actual combat rather than training because obviously the fighter isn't fighting anyone in training.

    So it would make sense for SNH to start tempting her during the tournament as she's actively fighting and striving for a goal. She CANNOT lost because she wishes to fight and kill Akuma. So this intense drive to win and desire to kill would unleash SNH pretty strongly within her. Think of all that pent up anger brewing all those years? :P

    I imagine she did fight before entering the tournament, after all Otomei HAS been searching for Akuma for many years prior to SF4 but she never found him. By making a deal with Urien, Otomei will be able to get her fight and chance at revenge finally. Although you are right, the SNH should start kicking in during the tournament and it should REALLY kick in during the fight with Akuma.
    {When my Martian moon
    is overshadowed by your Jovian chests
    I become bald
    And grow several breasts}
  • coco_jcoco_j Joined: Posts: 330
    lol, this post is pretty lame but I thin Otomi sounds a little bit better.... :P Still Otomei is much better than Goku.

    Also let me guess your story, Otomei kills Akuma and sort of becomes like him, and Ryu and Otomei are like friends and have feelings for each other right? So now Ryu has to stop his woman... ?
  • DaemosDaemos God of Fuck Joined: Posts: 688
    @Coco_J
    lol, this post is pretty lame but I thin Otomi sounds a little bit better.... :P Still Otomei is much better than Goku.

    Otome you mean, which means Girl or Daughter. Otomi is good as well, but I'm going with Otomei (pronounced O-toe-may) for the meaning attached to it.

    As for your guess. Ryu and Otomei become 'sorta like friends' but Ryu doesn't realize who Otomei is. Otomei does fight Akuma and there are a number of possible outcomes I have come up with. One of them is the Kairi-esque one which involves Otomei succumbing to Satso No Hadou and defeating Akuma (using the raging demon perhaps?), Akuma is so impressed that he imbues her with his powers before he dies, this possible conclusion would leave Otomei permanently under the influence of SNH.

    As for Ryu, I imagine he would realize (because of what happened to Otomei) that fighting isn't the only important thing in his life and attempts to save Otomei, although is it too late? Does she even want to be saved anymore?

    There are other possible endings I am working on, one that strongly involves Urien, Otomei and Akuma. I haven't ironed this out completely.

    This gives me an idea for you Spydaman, you could (for the hell of it) make an Evil Otomei sketch, based on your initial 'Goku' design. I'd definitely have her wearing the beads, as a reminder of her father.
    {When my Martian moon
    is overshadowed by your Jovian chests
    I become bald
    And grow several breasts}
  • DA GAMEDA GAME The Total Package Joined: Posts: 974
  • vasili10vasili10 Forever waits Joined: Posts: 4,235
    TAS wrote:
    I thought the plot guide stated that she was younger then Ryu and Ken, or maybe it was that she was older (I can't remember which now) but I thought I remember seeing art of her where she was with Ryu and Ken, and younger then them.

    It was an interview with one of the SF designers, but I can't remember if it was Bengus, Akiman, Kinu, or Edayan that said it. I remember someone saying how when Edayan started designing characters for SF and Rival Schools, that he looked at alot of unused character designs for insperation, mostly Bengus' stuff since apparently Edayan is Bengus' understudy, however not all his designs were inspired by other stuff, but some of the RS designs (and things about the game) were inspired by Evangelion.

    The plot guide says nothing about her age. Can you be more specific as to where this art of her with Ryu and Ken came from? The pic I posted long ago had her only with Ryu. Also you didn't respond about her third design.

    Again can you be more specific as to where the interview's from? I have one in a mook that says nothing directly linking Ojou-san to Sakura, except that Akiman once said that they were at one time considering designing Sakura with spats, but decided against it because they were going for a more modern-day look for her, hence a fighter in a schoolgirl skirt, bloomers, and running shoes.
  • DAWOLF57DAWOLF57 Going ape sh!t Joined: Posts: 464
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    vasili10 wrote:
    The plot guide says nothing about her age. Can you be more specific as to where this art of her with Ryu and Ken came from? The pic I posted long ago had her only with Ryu. Also you didn't respond about her third design.

    Again can you be more specific as to where the interview's from? I have one in a mook that says nothing directly linking Ojou-san to Sakura, except that Akiman once said that they were at one time considering designing Sakura with spats, but decided against it because they were going for a more modern-day look for her, hence a fighter in a schoolgirl skirt, bloomers, and running shoes.

    I was looking for that pic you drew cos I ain't seen it but didn't appear to be in the post I was directed to :xeye:
  • vasili10vasili10 Forever waits Joined: Posts: 4,235
    Spydaman wrote:
    I was looking for that pic you drew cos I ain't seen it but didn't appear to be in the post I was directed to :xeye:

    I didn't draw the pic; it's one scanned from a book. PM me with your email address if you want it sent to you. This goes also to everyone else who missed it while it was viewed on SRK 650+ times.

    Following up what was asked above, I'd also like to know how to post a picture; I can't do attachments anymore hence every one of those vanished. :sad:
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    I kinda like Ada, which Capcom character has that name.

    Ada Wong from Resident Evil 2 and RE4.
    Perhaps Dan didn't have the right 'mix' or background for SNH to kick it, otherwise every fighter with a strong desire to win or become the strongest would fall for SNH.

    It only happens to those who know/use Ansatsuken, which does know.

    Although it should be noted that Ansatsuken isn't a fighting style despite Capcom listing it as one. Ansatsuken is "The Style With The Killing Intent" which works out great for Akuma, but it seems really dumb that Ryu and Ken's styles are also named "Ansatsuken" despite them having no moves with the "killing intent" within their style(s) so its very contradictive. Gen is also listed as using Asatsuken, but he obviously uses Kung Fu, so really his style should be listed as something like "Ansatsuken Kung Fu" just like Akuma's should be something like "Ansatsuken Karate"
    I imagine Gouken's daughter has a desire to kill Akuma no matter what the cost, no matter what obstacle comes in her way, she must have her revenge.

    Think about this though. Gouken taught Ryu and Ken about "not killing" and that things like revenge, and negative emotions should never be part of them or whatever, so don't you think he would've taught his daughter the same? Ken saw Akuma kill Gouken too, but he's never had the desire to kill anyone, same with Ryu even though Akuma killed Gouken who was basicly Ryu's father.

    As upsetting as it probaly was for Ryu and Ken to loose their master, and relizing that what Akuma did was wrong, it was probaly somewhat easy for them to relize or they already knew that that was the kinda thing that happens when it comes to certain fighters.

    Also relize that Capcom intentionaly chose to never use Gouken's daughter, probaly her character brings up so many complications if she were ever introduced into the storyline.
    but Ryu doesn't realize who Otomei is.

    Here comes another one of those "complications" the last time Ryu and Ken saw Gouken's daughter she would've been full grown, ie it be very hard for Ryu to not recognize her, specialy after having spent a good portion of his life around her.

    Im guessing Gouken's daughter is older then Ryu, because we never heard anything about her mother, like if her mother had been around (or alive) after Ryu was brought to Gouken, there probaly would've been mention of her, which is sort of another complication, why did we ever hear anything about Gouken's daughter and not his wife? The only reason I can/could think of is that she'd be dead (be cool to find out that Akuma killed her, although it wouldn't make sense given Akuma's code of honor, unless it was accidental, like if he threw a powerful ki attack at Gouken and he dodged and it hit his wife)
    As for Ryu, I imagine he would realize (because of what happened to Otomei) that fighting isn't the only important thing in his life and attempts to save Otomei, although is it too late? Does she even want to be saved anymore?

    I too have Ryu come to a relization in my story, slightly diffrient, but still in the same vien that he relizes that fighting/training isn't important, because he basicly gets to point where he can't improve anymore really (in terms of moves and skills) and relizes there's alot more to life after Mel basicly forces him to experience a normal life (takes him to movies, clubs, new clothes, etc) then by the end of the game/story Ryu decides to try and live a normal life, while teaching others what he's learned.
    (using the raging demon perhaps?),

    She can't use it unless Akuma teaches it to her, since Akuma is the only person alive that knows it, and unlike other moves its not the type of move that someone can learn just by watching (it can actually kill the user if not preformed correctly)
    The plot guide says nothing about her age. Can you be more specific as to where this art of her with Ryu and Ken came from?

    I thought there was a short little comic (in color) published in one of the older SF books that had them together, with the version of her that looked like Yuri.
    Also you didn't respond about her third design.

    It was also from another comic, although now Im thinking/relizing now that it was probaly something uncanon. I remember the panels showing Gouken's daughter looking at the dojo, then it showed a bunch of flashes of light come from the dojo, then Akuma walked out right past his niece as if she wasn't even there, then Ken tried to fight him, and Akuma beat him in one move (knocking him unconcious too)
    Again can you be more specific as to where the interview's from?

    I've just read, seen, and heard so much SF stuff by this point it hard to remember where it all came from specificly.
  • vasili10vasili10 Forever waits Joined: Posts: 4,235
    TAS wrote:
    I thought there was a short little comic (in color) published in one of the older SF books that had them together, with the version of her that looked like Yuri.

    It was also from another comic, although now Im thinking/relizing now that it was probaly something uncanon. I remember the panels showing Gouken's daughter looking at the dojo, then it showed a bunch of flashes of light come from the dojo, then Akuma walked out right past his niece as if she wasn't even there, then Ken tried to fight him, and Akuma beat him in one move (knocking him unconcious too)

    I've just read, seen, and heard so much SF stuff by this point it hard to remember where it all came from specificly.

    The short little color comic has her only with Ryu; that's the page pic I posted.

    Another comic? With Ojou-san looking like Anita? And panels showing what Saiki's only described since four years ago? Of course it's not canon, all SF comics, manga, and doujinshi are. But which one is this? If your memory's actually serving you correctly and such a comic exists, I'm quite interested in the specifics of it. This is quite new news to me.

    That's unfortunate that you can't remember specifics. You've said quite a few things about Ojou-san that I've never come across or able to verify, and no else has either thus far. If you can back your words, you ought to brief Tiamat at least and have yourself credited some more within the SF plot guide. You could also help me add some more things for my Ojou-san faq if you're able to prove yourself.
    Unfortunately when I asked you in the past about a pic of Gouki before SnH took him over, you gave me a vague response for its whereabouts, and no one else I talked to knows anything about such a pic. So I don't know if you're trustworthy with the things you're saying now.
  • Rioting SoulRioting Soul Joined: Posts: 4,142 ✭✭✭
    DAWOLF57 wrote:
    how can I post a picture?

    If you already have the picture scanned and saved to your computer, go to www.imageshack.us and upload the picture. Copy the link to the picture and then either post the link in [URL][/URL] or [IMG][/IMG].

    Daemos: About Gordo, don't you think a jet pack and wrist cannon to be alittle low-tech and cartoony compared to the stuff we've seen in Street Fighter? Unless the point of this character is to be a techno-phile oblivious to the obsoletion of his gadgets I suggest that he lose the jet pack and cannon and instead have an anti-grav system in his suit to enable flight and the ability to fire concussion spheres from his open palm. And replace his goggles with a cyber scouter(cliche yes, but it fits the theme) to know instantly the opponent's potential.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    But which one is this? If your memory's actually serving you correctly and such a comic exists, I'm quite interested in the specifics of it. This is quite new news to me.

    It was drawn in the SFA anime style, so it can't be very old.
    Unfortunately when I asked you in the past about a pic of Gouki before SnH took him over, you gave me a vague response for its whereabouts, and no one else I talked to knows anything about such a pic.

    After I posted the description of the pic in the Warrior's Fate thread, someone else stated that they had seen it too, but in a stragey guide (I think it was) and that the guide/book also had concepts for the other characters as well.

    Also the version of Akuma I described in the pic I saw appears in RYU FINAL and in that Akuma looks almost EXACTLY like the pic I saw (and Id never seen Akuma in RYU FINAL till LONG after I'd seen the other pic) so given how close Nakahira Masahiko is with Capcom he no doubt saw what I did, or something similar.
  • DaemosDaemos God of Fuck Joined: Posts: 688
    Daemos: About Gordo, don't you think a jet pack and wrist cannon to be alittle low-tech and cartoony compared to the stuff we've seen in Street Fighter? Unless the point of this character is to be a techno-phile oblivious to the obsoletion of his gadgets I suggest that he lose the jet pack and cannon and instead have an anti-grav system in his suit to enable flight and the ability to fire concussion spheres from his open palm. And replace his goggles with a cyber scouter(cliche yes, but it fits the theme) to know instantly the opponent's potential.

    Good point. Although I specifically chose a jetpack because it aids him in some of his "thrusting" special moves. An anti-gravity system would be effective but can it provide thrust? Maybe an advanced sorta jetpack with ion thrusters instead of fire thrusters?

    As for the wrist cannon, it does double as a plasma sabre (kinda like the Protoss Zealots from Starcraft if you ever saw those). Also the concussion spheres from the palm of his hand sound SO FUCKING cool. If we remove the wrist cannon, we can still have the plasma sabre on his wrists I guess.

    I also agree with the cyber scouter/helmet thingy.

    @TAS
    Think about this though. Gouken taught Ryu and Ken about "not killing" and that things like revenge, and negative emotions should never be part of them or whatever, so don't you think he would've taught his daughter the same? Ken saw Akuma kill Gouken too, but he's never had the desire to kill anyone, same with Ryu even though Akuma killed Gouken who was basicly Ryu's father.

    As upsetting as it probaly was for Ryu and Ken to loose their master, and relizing that what Akuma did was wrong, it was probaly somewhat easy for them to relize or they already knew that that was the kinda thing that happens when it comes to certain fighters.

    Also relize that Capcom intentionaly chose to never use Gouken's daughter, probaly her character brings up so many complications if she were ever introduced into the storyline.

    Good point. But without anyone to guide her, Otomei wavered from the path. Ryu had Ken and Ken had Ryu to keep each other grounded. Also it was Otomei's father, so even though Gouken was like a father to Ryu and perhaps even Ken, his death probably wouldn't have affected them the same way it affects Otomei.

    Add the fact that Otomei didn't fully train under Gouken. After his death, she was trained by another master or masters.

    Her character does bring up some complications, all which I'm attempting to tackle. :)
    Here comes another one of those "complications" the last time Ryu and Ken saw Gouken's daughter she would've been full grown, ie it be very hard for Ryu to not recognize her, specialy after having spent a good portion of his life around her.

    Im guessing Gouken's daughter is older then Ryu, because we never heard anything about her mother, like if her mother had been around (or alive) after Ryu was brought to Gouken, there probaly would've been mention of her, which is sort of another complication, why did we ever hear anything about Gouken's daughter and not his wife? The only reason I can/could think of is that she'd be dead (be cool to find out that Akuma killed her, although it wouldn't make sense given Akuma's code of honor, unless it was accidental, like if he threw a powerful ki attack at Gouken and he dodged and it hit his wife)

    I assume that Otomei is a few years younger than Ryu. So I assume in my SF4 story that the last time Ryu saw her, she was a teenage girl. She disappeared after her father died and Ryu/Ken never saw her again. Flash forward to my SF4 story, Otomei is almost 20 years older. Ryu might have that dejavu feeling but he doesn't recognize her immediately.

    I too assume that Otomei's mom died (of natural causes I guess, although having Akuma killing her accidentally would be cool). This also drives Otomei into the world, she has no mother, no father, the only thing she thinks she has is her hate and anger. Which drives her into years of training and fighting, all while keeping a low profile.
    She can't use it unless Akuma teaches it to her, since Akuma is the only person alive that knows it, and unlike other moves its not the type of move that someone can learn just by watching (it can actually kill the user if not preformed correctly)

    I assumed that since Evil Ryu was able to pull it off, it comes with the territory of falling for SNH. But you bring up a good point. The image I had in my head had Akuma preparing to perform the raging demon on Otomei, saying something like "AND NOW YOU WILL JOIN YOUR FATHER!!! SHUNGOKUSATSU" then a red eyed Otomei surprises him by performing the raging demon before he does. So much drama. ^_____^
    {When my Martian moon
    is overshadowed by your Jovian chests
    I become bald
    And grow several breasts}
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    The only problem with saying "Evil Ryu used it" Is that Evil Ryu technically never fully existed and so never did use it. In all honesty, Evil Ryu shouldn't even be able to do the shungokusatsu but for gameplay's sake I spose they let him. But Gouken didn't teach it to them and he's the only other person who would've known, so unless there's some secret person out there who knows how to do it, Otomei couldn't really learn it from anyone save Akuma himself...

    UNLESS!...(and this is quite a stretch) one of the masters she trained under at some point in time was Gen. Gen is probably the only man alive (well...at the time anyway) to have had the demon rage performed on him and survived, so perhaps through experiencing it he learnt how to do it himself (again this is quite a stretch). He has no qualms with killing and entering into deathmatches so when you think about it, he and Akuma aren't all that different. So if he did learn it, he could've taught Otomei at some point in time. The only problem with this is that it would've had to have happened within the space of SFA2 and SF2 cos I'm pretty sure Gen is dead by then, whether he was killed in a deathmatch or died from his illness so don't really leave much time for him to teach her. Plus, having only learnt it through direct experience and not training, he may only be able to teach her a toned down version. OR maybe he just teaches her Zanei instead but it's some hyped up version. Think Kairi's "Demon Rage" like move in SFEX. All the pow pow pow pow pow before the final strike. Maybe Otomei zips across the screen (not teleport) You get the white light, all the pow pow powness and then she zips out performing the Zanei. Just a thought :p

    [EDIT]

    Oh ya, and to add about why Otomei would end up turning to Satsu no Hadou despite being taught about killing. Well perhaps shes always been a bit of a firecracker. Could be growing up without a mother and knowing nothing but the fight all her life. But perhaps she's always had a problem with anger and discipline and that's why she was taught to fight, as a way of disciplining her (similar to Ken) and as a way to focus and control her anger. Gouken acted sort of like a check or a cloth binding her anger. With Gouken's violent death, that bind is no longer there. Through grief, misery and anger, she forgets all she's been taught about the sanctity of life. Her life as she knew it is over, the one thing left that meant anything to her has been stolen by Akuma. Gouken's life must be paid back in full with Akuma's. So she is now this violent, unchecked mistress of rage with no one left to tell her that killing will not solve anything.

    Course the only potential hole I see here is that she'd have A LOT of time to think about her actions and it's not unlikely she'd reach the conclusion that it's wrong herself. Unless all she does is seek out master assassins to be taught how to kill very quickly (hehe).
  • DaemosDaemos God of Fuck Joined: Posts: 688
    My inspiration for Otomei comes heavily from Kairi, at least the Evil Otomei she is destined to become.

    I also (VERY weird coincidence) considered Gen as one of her masters, but something like this would have to happen after Gen's alpha appearance, somewhere between post-A3 and his death. I mean between Gouken's training, Gen's training and a whole lot of Evil Energy, there is bound to be a killer move in there somewhere. :p

    Or maybe Gen taught her how to avoid the Raging Demon? Although that would save her life, it wouldn't aid in killing Akuma, unless we throw Urien in the mix who ambushes Akuma and kills him (although he probably would want him alive for his Posthuman experiments). But just before he dies, Akuma imbues Otomei with his SNH as a gift or even a curse.

    How are th0se drawings coming btw? :)
    {When my Martian moon
    is overshadowed by your Jovian chests
    I become bald
    And grow several breasts}
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    Ryu had Ken and Ken had Ryu to keep each other grounded.

    Well Ken didn't need anybody to keep him grounded, because given the way he is, he would really never have any kind of greedy desires, since he's always had everything he's ever wanted.
    Her character does bring up some complications, all which I'm attempting to tackle. :)

    You'd probaly just be better off not even using Gouken's daughter, I mean you could just as easily use a completely new female character and have almost the exact same story, but with more freedom. All Gouken's daughter gives you is the fact that she was Gouken's daughter, not to mention a bunch of complications.
    I assume that Otomei is a few years younger than Ryu. So I assume in my SF4 story that the last time Ryu saw her, she was a teenage girl.

    If that were true then Ryu and Ken would've known her mother, and there probaly would've been mention of Gouken's wife if that were the case.

    Also if she were younger, she couldn't have been younger then 20 when her dad died, because it was during the sametime SF1 took place, and by that time Ryu was already 25.
    My inspiration for Otomei comes heavily from Kairi, at least the Evil Otomei she is destined to become.

    You can use Kairi in your story if you want, ie if you want someone like Kairi (or Hokuto since they both went the sameway) or anyone else from EX you can use them, but introduce them in a new way, ie there's nothing saying the EX characters cant be introduced to the Capcom canon, however you might have to alter their stories a bit, but I don't even think that is needed with most of the EX characters.

    I relized that awhile ago and have since added EX characters to my SFN2 and SFN3 storylines.

    For example you could easily do something like replacing Otomei with Hokuto, then have it so that Akuma killed her (and Kairi's) father, which would be why Kairi fought Akuma (where in the EX games Akuma through Kairi off a cliff) and Kairi develops amnesia, so then you can have Hokuto and Kairi keep their same basic EX storyline's (while really only changing the fact that Hokuto wants to go after Akuma as well) and keep your same basic storyline, like Hokuto could befriend Ryu and there would be no complication there with him recognizing her (because he never would have met her) and Hokuto wavered with the SNH in the EX story, but eventually caved to it (becoming Dark Hokuto) so even there its still like your story.

    Just an example of how you don't have to use Gouken's daughter, and can still have almost the exact same story, but with even more freedom.
  • DAWOLF57DAWOLF57 Going ape sh!t Joined: Posts: 464
    here Daemos, I dont know if you remember a while back when I was talking to you about the wrestler character "Scorpio" but here is my suggestion for a replacement.
    BTW the drawing is not all the way done.
  • vasili10vasili10 Forever waits Joined: Posts: 4,235
    TAS wrote:
    It was drawn in the SFA anime style, so it can't be very old.
    Really? Must've been a doujin. Do you have it or know someone who does? If not, would you recognize it if you saw the cover?
    TAS wrote:
    After I posted the description of the pic in the Warrior's Fate thread, someone else stated that they had seen it too, but in a stragey guide (I think it was) and that the guide/book also had concepts for the other characters as well.

    Also the version of Akuma I described in the pic I saw appears in RYU FINAL and in that Akuma looks almost EXACTLY like the pic I saw (and Id never seen Akuma in RYU FINAL till LONG after I'd seen the other pic) so given how close Nakahira Masahiko is with Capcom he no doubt saw what I did, or something similar.

    The old thread that vanished right? Well, I hope I can get some insight from what sano's salvaged from it. In Ryu Final however there is no pic of pre-SnH Gouki, only some shots before he dealt with Gouken, and he's quite immersed in SnH all through that manga.
  • Rioting SoulRioting Soul Joined: Posts: 4,142 ✭✭✭
    Daemos, I'm gonna draw the high-tech Gordo once I finish up this character I'm making. Maybe some of you can help me out with this one.

    I'm drawing/making this character:

    Name: Kre(pronounced "Kree")

    Gender: Female

    Bio: When Shadaloo fell, various nations secretly picked apart Shadaloo property and technology. The CIA retrieved all of the information on Bison's Doll Project. With knowledge of emensely powerful people walking the Earth, the American government underwent a secret program to create warriors just as powerful for "security". The Doll Project was salvaged and CIA agent/practicing Thai Boxer Kre volunteered to be first subject to the training regement as well as psychological augmentation. After completing the program Kre maintained her free will but she picked up robotic nuances in her speech though she tries to keep it in check. Kre has always been secretive and deceptive. Because of her training she's become very anti-social and in general gives off bad vibes. Age unknown. It's assumed that she was born in America.

    Appearance: Average height, for a man(CvS2 M.Bison's height). She has white unkept hair reaching to her neck. A black rubber headband around the top of her head, the hair goes over it. Her bust is small and pretty much flat. She is muscular like Cammy but not as dainty, more manly. Not sexy at all. She could be confused for a man. On her feet she wears blue boots like Killer Bee Cammy but the boots are cut/torn so that the front of the foot and the heel are open and exposed(like Sagat) and her toenails are painted black. On the shins of the boots are black leather belts strapped tight. She's wearing a one piece shiny black body suit(skin tight) that reaches from her neck to one inch or so above her knees, the body suit has no arms so the are exposed. Over the body suit she's wearing the Sagat/Adon trunks(blue) with white tag. The trunks don't reach further than the body suit legs so she has a Karin-like thing with her skirt. What I'm not sure about is what to put on her arms. I don't wanna do the Thai bandage thing, I guess I'll do belt straps.

    Idea: Some characters are the personification of America(Cap America, Superman, GI Joe, Guile). My intention for Kre is to be the personification of America from the eyes of someone not so patriotic. American Anti-hero. I also wanted to do an accurately portrayed female fighter(physically) and have a female that isn't attractive but not ugly, more cool.
  • akuaku ☆ねぇ!☆ Joined: Posts: 3,726 ✭✭✭
    Sorry for not having any real ideas, but a while ago, in a discussion of a possible SF4 in another forum, we were discussing boss characters. I tried to think of the lamest cheapest possible boss I could think of, and....

    This is...
    What I...
    Thought up.

    (Don't mind the Samus Q, I was using her as a dummy target..)
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    So ya, back to the arty stuffs :P

    Felt like taking my own crack at what I'd personally have in a Street Fighter 4. Here's a summary of the plot:
    Its 10 years since the last Street Fighter Tournament...and the mighty Gill as fallen from grace. His jealous brother, Urien, has allied himself with a dark, evil force, stripping Gill of his power and casting it into Urien. Gill is almost destroyed by his brother until being saved by his assistant, Kolin. There is only one way to stop his brother from corrupting the Illuminati and then the world...

    Urien knows that there are powerful warriors out there who could threaten him and so he decides to host the 4th Street Fighter tournament as a way to draw them in and destroy them. Inviting only the strongest and most powerful, he promises them the ultimate fight of their lives and glory beyond their wildest dreams. However, all is not as it seems...is his dark, powerful ally merely his puppet...or the puppeteer? The horrific truth of Erebus Tabansi is yet to be revealed.

    Here's the first pic, of Ryu, Akuma and Mel Masters...
    They're all quite sketchy pics but yeah. Only noticed after I'd scanned it that Ryu's hand got cut off, bah! Ah well. In case it wasn't immediatly obvious, It's Ken standing behind Mel. He's kinda retired a lil from fighting choosing to focus on his booming businesses instead. Hence, he's usually seen suited and booted.

    Really wanted to show some evolution in the characters, even if they hadn't changed much from the previous games. Ryu obviously has longer hair but decided to put it tied up rather than leave it hanging as seems to be common. Gave him a white streak to show age catching up with him. He's sewn sleeves onto his old Gi and no longer wears protective gloves. Akuma's hair is completely white, he has prominant facial hair and his gi top has been almost completely torn to shreds revealing his scarred torso. He now where's the gi sort of like a raggy waist coat. Ken has his hair more slicked back and his black roots show through his dyed hair colour.

    Now onto some profiles.

    Akuma


    Story: The man once known as Gouki had always thought the world weak, that there were none who could truly stand up to his power. Ryu once had the potential to do so, but he had since given up the Satsu No Hadou. He had felt the intense powers of both Gill and Oro but had never gotten the chance to fight them. With Oro now dead and Gills powers depleted, it seemed Akuma would never get the fight he wanted...

    Then he felt it. A change was coming and suddenly strong kis were emerging from all over the world, congregating to one place...the 4th Street Fighter tournament. Perhaps the world was not so weak after all. He felt it was truly time for the world to be aware of his power.

    Xtra Info:
    ? Whilst Akuma is getting older, his age doesnt seem to be affecting his power at all. Hes still as strong as ever.
    ? He will truly meet his match in this tournament. Its the first time he is officially entering.
    ? He is unaware of how strong Ryu has become. Oro taught him to mask his ki while training so as to avoid being interrupted by fighters looking for deathmatches.
    ? Akuma has learnt how to use his ki to levitate objects, including people.
    ? He too no longer uses both hands to fire hadoukens.
    ? Has developed a weaker version of the KongouKokuretsuzan that explodes beneath the feet of his opponent.

    Mel Masters

    Story: Mel has always been the best at what he does, whatever that may be. His plethora of awards, trophies, medals and badges show this and he loves to show them off. However, he wants a new challenge, something sports can no longer offer him. He seeks to be an even greater fighter than his father ever was. Ken tells him that to be the best, he has to be able to beat Ryu. Mel is quick to sign up to the 4th Street Fighter tournament, much to his mothers dismay. As a reassurance, Ken sends Sean along with him into the tournament to watch over him. Ken himself chooses not to officially enter.

    Xtra Info:
    ? Mel and Amy are cousins; thus, she also chooses to tag along with Mel, Sean and her Uncle Ken.
    ? Not being as physically strong as his dad (yet) Mel carries his favourite baseball bat with him into all battles to assist with his moves. Some may see it as cheating, but he knows there are no real rules in a street fight.
    ? Mel was, of course, taught by his father and inherited his same desire to make the moves as stylish and unique as possible.
    ? Mel has a younger sister, Alicia, 6 years old.

    Ryu

    Story: For the last 10 years Ryu has trained under the ancient Senjutu master, Oro. No one has heard from or seen either of them in all this time. Ryu emerges from his training a changed man. Older, wiser, more focused and maybe a part of him lost? Before he dies, Oro asks for one last fight with Ryu. Though Ryu does not defeat Oro, Oro dies happy knowing he had the greatest fight of his life and that his style shall live on through Ryu.

    Ryu is drawn to the 4th Street Fighter tournament, not by the desire to win, show off or test his new style, but by the incredible powers he senses within the tournament. A dark cloud is forming over the world and all does not seem right. Some powers feel all too familiar, and one in particular is destined to meet him in one final battle.

    Xtra Info:
    ? Ryu now wears the prayer beads worn by Gouken. All this time theyve been at the site of his grave. Ryu finally feels himself worthy of donning the beads.
    ? He wears part of Oros garment below his belt as a sign of respect.
    ? The symbol Heiwa (peace) is painted on the back of his Gi as a sign of his new state of mind. He believes himself to be at peace with himself and the world, yet the 4th tournament threatens to disrupt that peace. He must investigate.
    ? His style is a combination of Ansatsuken and Senjutu. He needs only one hand to perform hadoukens. His shoryuken is slightly altered and enhanced by the power of the Oni Yanma.
    ? He now uses his red headband to tie back his hair, much like Ken once did.
    ? Ryus current level of power is undetermined. Whilst hes not more powerful than Oro was, he could be on par with or even beyond Akuma.
    ? Hes had no contact with Ken since the last tournament.

    Sorry for all the reading :p
    Next pic is Amy

    Didn't finish the legs in this pic, just wasn't satisfied with them and kept rubbing them out so left it above her knees lol. Tried to convey some of her style and personality through these two poses. She can be fun and high spirited but also focused and determined.

    Amy

    Story: Amy has always had a fascination and great love of planes. After visiting her father, Guile, on the army base and seeing him fly, she knew what her calling was. She was going to become a pilot. However, her plans came to dramatic halt after Guiles brutal and mysterious death. She failed her exams and instead became a fighter jet engineer. She grew to love her job but still longed to fly.

    One day, she received word from the fathers old friend, Chun-li, that her fathers murderer may be participating in the next Street Fighter tournament...and it may be someone they hoped would never and could never walk the Earth again. Amys path is clear. Find her fathers killer and bring them to justice.

    Xtra Info:
    ? Guile never taught his daughter how to fight but she had seen him in action before. She learned how to fight through standard military training and lessons from her uncle, Ken Masters.
    ? Amy used what Ken had taught her about ki control to create her own version of her dads Sonic Boom.
    ? She is quite close to her younger cousin, Mel.
    ? She always keeps a large spanner with her that she uses for some attacks.
    ? With the return of Rose, its assumed that Bisons soul has returned to reclaim her body and thus Amy goes after her when in fact it was Urien who killed Guile.
    ? She has a tattoo of her fathers face with angel wings on the side on her lower back.
    ? She wears his and Charlies dog tags.
    ? Is addicted to bubble-gum

    And finally...????

    Freaky was the word I had in mind when putting this guy down on paper. Really wanted to convey something that was both terrifying and yet at the same time tragic. And yes...he still has the weapons people have attacked him with in his body lol

    Erebus Tabansi

    Story: Erebus is the mysterious dark force recruited by Urien to strip Gill of his power. Not much is widely known about Erebus. He is believed to be ancient, harbouring a power beyond all imagination. What is known, within a small circle of few, is that hes spent decades in a secluded dark cave. He never leaves and none go inside and come out alive. Mighty warriors have come and gone seeking to defeat Erebus, for he who destroys this primal force shall inherit is incredible powers. It is unknown how Urien has managed to recruit this evil fighter and his intentions are unclear.

    Xtra Info:
    ? Erebus is meant to be the freakiest boss ever to appear in SF and is likely the most powerful.
    ? Erebus beat the shit out of Gill, giving Urien the time he needed to recite an incantation, stripping Gill of his godlike powers and casting them into himself.
    ? His power allows him to survive no matter how much damage is inflicted on him. Every bone in his body could be broken and hell still get up and continue fighting. His body healing. It never completely heals however. His skin seems to be dead and decayed, just hanging onto his body. Some of his bones are still evidently broken and he tends to stagger and drag himself along when moving. Despite this, he is incredibly fast and powerful.
    ? In reality, Erebus is the dark force Gill is destined to fight in order to save reality, but Urien hopes to prematurely bring about the destruction of civilisation, building his own empire on its grave.
    ? He still has the weapons of many warriors who tried to kill him stuck in his body. He sometimes rips them out in attacks before stuffing them back in.
    ? His intro to a fight involves him dragging himself along the ground, groaning before rearing up sharply. His back snaps back with his head dangling behind his legs before he flops back over to the front. He then snaps one of the spears imbedded in his back.

    More profiles and pics coming soon ;) Enjoy
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    Oh yeah, that reminds me I have some Mel Masters pics on my Photobucket account...

    Mel Masters

    melreysmall.jpg

    Here's one that Rey did, a few years ago, that I inked and colored, and its what also inspired me to make Mel the main character of my SFN story (he was already in the original draft, but I never thought of making him the main character)

    mel.jpg

    First little drawing of him I did. Inspired by Rey's version, however I decided to change the hair a bit.

    melgi.jpg

    Mel's Gi. Unlike all the other "shotos" his "Gi" is a bit diffrient, in the sense that its not really a gi, its just some clothes of his that he kinda modified into a gi.

    mel2.jpg

    Finally the first pic of his final concept (default outfit) I decided to make his look completely diffrient then all the other shotos, beacause 1) There's already enough of them and 2) I wanted to make him stand out more. He basicly looks like a more Capcomish version of Rock Howard (I thought that they'd make perfect Capcom Vs SNK rivals because of that, and a few other things, too.
    Xtra Info:
    ? Mel and Amy are cousins; thus, she also chooses to tag along with Mel, Sean and her Uncle Ken.
    ? Mel has a younger sister, Alicia, 6 years old.

    lol I had similar ideas in my story.

    I have Mel, Amy, and Datta, all become good friends by the end of my story, and I figured that towards the beggining of the story Mel and Amy would like one another (in the sense that cousins do) but not really know much about one another or have seen one another very often since their fathers don't get along, but since they both break away from their fathers and get involved in a tournament together its easier for them to bond.

    I also have Datta and Amy become linked romanticly (although not in my first story) since they're basily the same age and start spending alot of time together (just to note, in 2010 when my SFN story takes place, going the ages of "the kids" Amy and Datta would be in their early 20's while Mel would be 18 since Im guessing he was born in 1992)

    And I also pictured Mel having a little sister too, although I never mentioned it in my story, although Id have her only be between 6 and 8 by the time he's already 18, meaning Ken and Eliza wouldn't of had another kid till almost 10 years after Mel.
    ________________________________________________________________

    Also here's my version of Chun Li's (adopted) daughter grown up a bit

    Mayoke

    mayoke2.jpg

    Didn't want her to look like Chun Li, but at the sametime be able to tell its her adopted daughter (which would come off better if I had her colored) also had to make up her name since Capcom never gave her one.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    I'm still considering using Datta but then I think, you don't wanna overload the story with all the kids of the SF2 crew. Just seems a bit like overkill. It's hard enough trying to make all the Ansatsuken peeps different enough from each other.
  • vasili10vasili10 Forever waits Joined: Posts: 4,235
    If you could get back to me about post #127 TAS, I'd appreciate it; thanks. I'm quite interested in knowing more.
  • DaemosDaemos God of Fuck Joined: Posts: 688
    @Spydaman

    Those Akuma and Ryu sketches are very well done. I like the concept of Urien allying with a new more powerful enemy. However, I feel the Erebus design is too Darkstalkerish. At least the sketch is. But it's all good.

    @TAS

    You're right, I could be better off using someone other than Gouken's daughter but it would require creating a whole new connection with Akuma. Also I feel that the Gouken's daughter background is rich in story, I'm hoping I can tap into that. I'm gonna try to iron out all the plot holes, if I can't then I'll replace the character

    I considered EX characters, especially characters like Hokotu, Garuda, Darun and Kairi which I think are really well done.

    @DAWOLF57

    He looks strange, very Zombie-ish. I wonder if he'll carry a gun. =D

    @Rioting Soul

    I'm looking forward to that. As for Kree. I generally like the character but I feel the Shadaloo background attached is unnecessary. You could make it that she was just part of a new experiment -period. Although I LOVE the androgynous design, one of the new characters is a male-to-female androgynous character as well.

    I'm working on a few new character designs ATM, I'll be done with them soon.

    For anyone interested, I'm looking for a Chun Li, Vega and/or Akuma sketch based on my descriptions. Anything produced will be most appreciated.
    {When my Martian moon
    is overshadowed by your Jovian chests
    I become bald
    And grow several breasts}
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    I'm still considering using Datta but then I think, you don't wanna overload the story with all the kids of the SF2 crew. Just seems a bit like overkill.

    Well the only offsprings fit to be in SF4 would be Amy and Datta, since Mel and Chun Li's daughter would be far too young, but Amy and Datta have no reason to be in SF4 anyway.

    See each of the core SF games (1-3) have the same forumla where there's always a tournament, where whoever holds it is the final boss, and the main character is always a brand new character that has a connection to the final boss, and they all take place around the time of their release, so if SF4 was set in present day 2005, someone like Mel wouldn't be right, since he'd only be like 12, Chun Li's daughter would be even younger, while Amy and Datta would be in either their mid to late teens.

    Now one of the core ideas behind my story was to basicly take all the younger characters from the SF series, and advance the story to the point where they were all fully grown, so characters like Sakura, Karin, Ibuki, Makoto, Elena, R.Mika, Yun, Yang, etc, who were once teens or really young would now be full grown adults, meanwhile the other half the cast would be classic older characters who are their for one last time it be a very "out with the old, in with the new" but not without giving the old the proper send off, ie it be the last game for characters like Ryu and Chun Li.

    My idea is more like the Alpha series, pulling in as many existing characters as possible (or as many as I want) while only creating a few all new original characters, just like the SFA series did. Although I guess SFA was more of a "forget the new, here's some old" with the cast.
    It's hard enough trying to make all the Ansatsuken peeps different enough from each other.

    I didn't really find it that hard for them, I just looked at it is having to redsign them all completely, with what was part of their style personality. The only one of which I haven't redesigned or have found some problems with is Dan (and Sakura at one point) and the only other character in my 30 character cast that I've had problems redoing in Fei Long.
  • coco_jcoco_j Joined: Posts: 330
    See each of the core SF games (1-3) have the same forumla where there's always a tournament, where whoever holds it is the final boss, and the main character is always a brand new character that has a connection to the final boss, and they all take place around the time of their release, so if SF4 was set in present day 2005, someone like Mel wouldn't be right, since he'd only be like 12, Chun Li's daughter would be even younger, while Amy and Datta would be in either their mid to late teens.

    I don't see why SF4 would have to follow this "formula". It unnecessarily and stupidly restricts the story.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    I don't see why SF4 would have to follow this "formula". It unnecessarily and stupidly restricts the story.

    Too bad, thats the forumla.

    The Alpha series is what was for more story and things like that, so if you want a more developed and more unique SF game then SF4 isn't what you're looking for. Something like the Alpha series is what you want, or want another spin off like Alpha was.

    I also forgot that another part of the SF1-3 forumla is a total cast change, like only a few returning characters carry over, ie most of SF4's cast will/would be all new chracters.

    All of which just pile up to more reasons why I didn't call my story/game concept SF4, and made it more akin to the SFA series, cause it allowed more freedom.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    I find working with restrictions sometimes makes you have to think that bit harder to make what you're writing about entertaining and interesting. It's more of a challenge so I reckon the outcome is more rewarding. Although I would say taking out the tournament would allow for more freedom in terms of story. And hey, the tournament thing's worked in Tekken for what...5 games? At the end of the day, the game is about the fighting, about the gameplay and the story I spose is kind of a bonus element. It's not really meant to be a deep story and character driven game.
  • DaemosDaemos God of Fuck Joined: Posts: 688
    @TAS

    The formula is correct, except for the main character part. Ryu was the main character in 2 of the 3 SF tournaments.
    I also forgot that another part of the SF1-3 forumla is a total cast change, like only a few returning characters carry over, ie most of SF4's cast will/would be all new chracters.

    This only applies if its a winning formula. Many believe this was the downfall of SF3. Personally I prefer a cast of 50% old or 40% old and 50 or 60% new.

    In any case this formula is unnecessary, and I don't think Capcom will follow with it the next time around, at least not completely.
    {When my Martian moon
    is overshadowed by your Jovian chests
    I become bald
    And grow several breasts}
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    Isn't Guile considered the main character of SF2? It's probably open to debate but I'm sure I read it somewhere
  • DaemosDaemos God of Fuck Joined: Posts: 688
    Maybe in America but no he isn't. Ryu is the main character in SF2, this has been emphasized on in the SF2 animated movie and in the game itself.
    {When my Martian moon
    is overshadowed by your Jovian chests
    I become bald
    And grow several breasts}
  • akuaku ☆ねぇ!☆ Joined: Posts: 3,726 ✭✭✭
    Daemos wrote:
    Maybe in America but no he isn't. Ryu is the main character in SF2, this has been emphasized on in the SF2 animated movie and in the game itself.

    This is kind of a misconception, because while Ryu is the most recognizable character of the Street Fighter series, there was no real main character in SF2(the "mascot" character isn't always the main hero). The animated movie was not canon to the videogame storyline(it was just inspiration for the Alpha series), and Ryu didn't win the tournament. So the closest you'll get to the main character in SF2 is Guile...and I guess Chun-Li too.
  • DaemosDaemos God of Fuck Joined: Posts: 688
    I thought it was Chun Li. It's also implied that she won the second tournament.

    Even though the animated movie is not canon, it tried hard not to contradict it.
    {When my Martian moon
    is overshadowed by your Jovian chests
    I become bald
    And grow several breasts}
  • Rioting SoulRioting Soul Joined: Posts: 4,142 ✭✭✭
    Daemos wrote:
    I'm looking forward to that. As for Kree. I generally like the character but I feel the Shadaloo background attached is unnecessary. You could make it that she was just part of a new experiment -period. Although I LOVE the androgynous design, one of the new characters is a male-to-female androgynous character as well.

    The reason I want to make my characters(Riot and Kre) a historical result of Shadaloo was to make a Nazi parallel. Alot of the stuff going on today and a while back had to do with WWII and Hitler's regime. It just seems like an interesting plot device. I'd like it if happening in past Street Fighters were remembered or alluded to in some way in the next SF. Bison wanted to cement his place in history. It don't make sense that the world acts like Bison never existed. Shadaloo's presence had to have caused ripples in history, there is no "and they all lived happily ever after". Saying that the rise of Bison had no repurcussions on the world is Deus Ex Machina. Also it further helps to let people know SF1, 2, 3 and 4 are not different dimensions. Also I wanted Kre to have an established background that linked her indirectly to other characters instead of just introducing her as a character that isn't involved with anything what-so-ever for her to not show up in SF5(lol) and not have a full and complete story.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    And hey, the tournament thing's worked in Tekken for what...5 games?

    Tekken does it, because they like having a central villian, and don't want to have to do something like Capcom did with SFA2 where every character kinda had their own path, specific bosses, etc.
    The formula is correct, except for the main character part. Ryu was the main character in 2 of the 3 SF tournaments.

    No, its...

    Game = Main - Boss

    SF1 = Ryu - Sagat
    SF2 = Guile - Bison
    SF3 = Alex - Gill

    There was a debate between if it was Guile or Chun Li for SF2, however SF3 confirms that she "took down Shadowloo" rather then Bison specificly, so basicly they had Chun Li take down the originization and Guile take down the leader.
    This only applies if its a winning formula. Many believe this was the downfall of SF3.

    It wasn't the downfall of SF3.

    The problem was most people saw certain characters as poor substitutes, not to mention SF2 built up the impossible perfect dilevery for SF3, not to mention SFA2 and SFA3 (along with the EX games) were released along the side the SF3 games.

    If you noticed, the most popular SF3 characters, were those that people didn't see as substitutes or whatever, example there weren't alot of Necro fans out there, however there were alot of Ibuki, Elena, Q, etc, fans.
    Personally I prefer a cast of 50% old or 40% old and 50 or 60% new.

    But then you (like me) want something like the SFA series, and let me guess you like SFA's gameplay better then SF3's too right? I forgot to mention another part of "the forumla" is the slower more strategic, one super, etc, gameplay that SF1-3 had.

    You can still have a tournament in something like the Alpha series, as well as other stuff from the core games, but its quite obvious that the core games follow a forumla, and when Capcom wanted to break from that forumula they made the Alpha series.

    Oh yeah and Mark of The Wolves showed that you can have an entire cast change and still be successful or have fans like it or whatever. Not to mention get away with a cast that is made up of characters that are either offsprings or students of previous chars.
    In any case this formula is unnecessary, and I don't think Capcom will follow with it the next time around, at least not completely.

    It could be Capcom of Japan or Capcom of America that makes it, and given that somone at CoJ already stated Ryu would be the only pre-SF3 character to return (meaning nobody created prior to SF3 would show up) in SF4.

    And if its CoA that makes it, Final Fight: Street Wise should show how much CoA favors change, new chars, etc.
    Maybe in America but no he isn't. Ryu is the main character in SF2, this has been emphasized on in the SF2 animated movie and in the game itself.

    No, only in the first version of SF2 showed Ryu winning the SF2 tournament, but they retroactively changed his ending and storyline. The official SF2 storyline has Ryu drop out of the tournament after fighting Ken.

    And the SF2 anime was made as a prequel to SF2, it was supposed to explain what happend between SF1 and SF2, and Ryu was the best choice of a main character given he was the main char in SF1 and the fact that he's always traveling, so it makes it easy to have him come across other characters.
    The animated movie was not canon to the videogame storyline

    Before all the retroactive changes it really didn't contradict any part of the SF1 or SF2 storyline, so you can kinda look at it as "at one time it was canon"

    But yeah its what inspired the Alpha games.
    I thought it was Chun Li. It's also implied that she won the second tournament.

    It was stated that Chun Li took down Shadowloo, not that she won the tournament or beat Bison.
  • akuaku ☆ねぇ!☆ Joined: Posts: 3,726 ✭✭✭
    TAS wrote:
    Before all the retroactive changes it really didn't contradict any part of the SF1 or SF2 storyline, so you can kinda look at it as "at one time it was canon"

    Well I'm still thinking that as "close to canon as they could get", but yeah, I'll agree that a lot of the characters were pretty accurate to their game counterparts(save for T.Hawk...).
    It was stated that Chun Li took down Shadowloo, not that she won the tournament or beat Bison.

    I think it's pretty funny that she gets much more recognition in taking down Shadowloo than Guile taking down Bison.
  • DAWOLF57DAWOLF57 Going ape sh!t Joined: Posts: 464
    @DAWOLF57

    He looks strange, very Zombie-ish. I wonder if he'll carry a gun. =D

    Yeah he will have a gun, I think it would be cool to see this in a SF game. I picture him playing alot like Cable except without the AHVB and also he should have to enter a command to reload after a certain amount of shots fired.
    I have not thought up a story for him but possesion is invloved thats why he looks kinda zombie-ish. But anyways if you think he's cool I'll finish the drawing so you can see exactly what I intend to make him look like.
  • coco_jcoco_j Joined: Posts: 330
    The official SF2 storyline has Ryu drop out of the tournament after fighting Ken.

    Since when has that been official? I thought this was just speculation. It's still quite stupid that Ryu would just leave after fighting Ken and not bother with Sagat who is an even bigger rival. Something must have happenned to Sagat too for this theory to hold.
    This only applies if its a winning formula. Many believe this was the downfall of SF3.
    It wasn't the downfall of SF3.

    The problem was most people saw certain characters as poor substitutes, not to mention SF2 built up the impossible perfect dilevery for SF3, not to mention SFA2 and SFA3 (along with the EX games) were released along the side the SF3 games.

    If you noticed, the most popular SF3 characters, were those that people didn't see as substitutes or whatever, example there weren't alot of Necro fans out there, however there were alot of Ibuki, Elena, Q, etc, fans.

    I agree there were many reasons why SF3 failed, but a major one was the cast. Only now are people starting to accept these characters. I really doubt that Capcom will only bring back Ryu. Even if someone at CoJ already stated Ryu would be the only pre-SF3 character to return. How long ago was this said? A couple of years?
    Things change.
  • vasili10vasili10 Forever waits Joined: Posts: 4,235
    Can you describe anything about the comic you mentioned earlier please TAS?
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 20,835 admin
    It's still quite stupid that Ryu would just leave after fighting Ken and not bother with Sagat who is an even bigger rival.

    How/Why would he even know Sagat was there?
    Something must have happenned to Sagat too for this theory to hold.

    Yeah, he dropped out after he found out Ryu did, because his only purpose for being there was to fight Ryu.
    I really doubt that Capcom will only bring back Ryu.

    Ryu + SF3 characters. Ryu wouldn't be the only SF character returning, just the only one created prior to SF3.

    And I really don't see the problem considering Fatal Fury: Mark of The Wolves did well, and the only returning Fatal Fury character was Terry, so MOTW shows it can work.

    Its like I've been saying, Capcom should stick to the forumla they have with the core games, and for the type of games that I (and everyone else in this thread it seems like) want Capcom should do another spin off series like Alpha.

    The only reason not to want SF4 to not follow the formula would be because it dosn't fit you vision or desire, or because you know that it will probaly come out before any other SF games do, but thats just being greedy if you're like that.
    Can you describe anything about the comic you mentioned earlier please TAS?

    I only saw like 4 pages from it, and it was basicly what I described.
  • coco_jcoco_j Joined: Posts: 330
    How/Why would he even know Sagat was there?

    Errrrm I thought one of his main reasons for entering the tournie would be to fight Sagat. He doesn't care about winning, and I doubt he would enter just to fight Ken. Even if that's not the reason... there was also the theory that Ryu dropped because he "sensed" Akuma's Ki. If that's the case why can't he sense Sagat.
    It's just incredibly stupid.
This discussion has been closed.