Iczer one wrote:
[Star Ocean 3]
[ S ] Maria
[ A+] Cliff
[ A ] Nel, Sophia, Albel
[ B ] Fayt, Mirage, Peppita
[ C ] Adray, Roger
Silent Shinobi wrote:
Hanzo Hattori and Hideyoshi Hashiba are top tier to me cause I play with them TOO damn much!! And dude if u played Xtreme Legends, Put Tadakatsu on there. On game he's supposedly equal to Keiji.
no way cyan wherehe is cyan is the most god like char in the game ff6
Sex Cowboy wrote:
Yeah, I'm also curious as to how Sweet Tooth got so high. I'd love a detailed analysis of the TM2 tiers.
I suppose I'll contribute another set of RPG tiers. These are not as solid as my Chrono Trigger tiers because I am not as intimately familiar with the game. Still, I think they are fairly accurate.
Final Fantasy 6 Natural Magic Game* Tiers
*Characters cannot equip anything that teaches a spell unless that character already knows that spell.
Terra - She still has magic, which simply wins in FF6. In addition, she really good equipment and Morph, which is just absurd.
Gau - Gau is the versatility machine.Rages give him a variety of riduclous stuff, including attacks which act as the equivalent to level 3 magic almost immediately after he joins the party. He also has the Stray Cat rage, which does 4x attack 25% of the time. Also, he can equip the Snow Muffler, which is an insanely high defense armor.
Celes - She also has magic, though not as strong as Terra. She is pretty similar to Terra in nearly every regard, though she has the added option of imping herself and being set up as an imp fighter or dragoon (with the imp equipment all being very good).
Gogo - Has access to magic through mimic. Only person who can equip things that normally teach magic (since it cannot learn spells). This is of primary importance because of the Paladin Shield. Beats Gau in versatility, but because of stats, does not do everything quite as well.
Mog - Dances do really well in the World of Balance (with incredible levels of ownage on the Floating Continent), but fall off in World of Ruin. Fortunately, he can immediately switch to a dragoon setup. This works really well because he can equip the Pearl/Aura Lance and is very quick, allowing for many attacks at once through Dragon Horn. He too can equip the Snow Muffler, so he can absorb damage if not acting as a dragoon.
Edgar - Could conceivably be higher than Mog because the difference between their abilities is slight. Instead of dances , Edgar has tools, which also do well in World of Balance before falling off in World of Ruin. He has very good equipment, but most of it does not work with his dragoon setup, which is his best option in World of Ruin.
Setzer - Slots are very good throughout the game if the player has taken the time to learn how to use them effectively. Regardless, they still do decent damage with easy to achieve 7-Flush. Becomes really effective with Fixed Dice and Offering, which can be obtained very easily as soon as Mog is acquired. Fixed Dice do not suffer from Offering's usual 50% damage reduction, so Setzer becomes a very effective source of damage.
Shadow - Begins the game with very good stats, which become more important without the stat boosting Espers. Throw is a very good skill, even using cheap and easy to acquire Shurikens. Throw also allows for a variety of elemental attacks, which are hard to find without magic. Also, Throw allows Shadow to make the entire party immune to physical attakcs and to heal party members (throw Earth Rods at Gaia Gear wearers). Plus, he has Interceptor, who is simply awesome.
Strago - Lores allow for magic equivalent attacks, even though they are difficult to find (much harder than Gau's good rages, which are mostly found immediately). Beyond that, Strago has pretty good M. Block and can use Healing Rods on members of the party.
Sabin - Everybody loves to put Sabin really high normally, but NMG reveals that he starts out as an average character and then becomes overshadowed quickly. Blitzes are pretty good for damage early in World of Balance, but lose effectiveness later because of his low magic power. In this regard, he is completely useless when Gogo enters the party (Gogo can use Blitzes and does more damage because of higher magic power).
Locke - Locke is normally very good, but cannot compete in a NMG. His best option for damage late in the game is Genji Glove and Offering. The problem is this setup requires very high vigor, which cannot be increased in NMG with the lack of Espers. Thus, Locke is left behind in damage pretty quickly by many characters. Still, he has good equipment, good speed and a decent skill early on with Steal/Mug. These keep him out of Bottom Tier.
Cyan - Cyan is good when he first enters the party and then never again. Dispatch is better than his normal attack, but it still is not very good. His other STechs are slow and thus ineffective.
Umaro - Completely random and not very good (though above Relm).
Relm - Has very high magic power which completly goes to waste. Beyond that, she has nothing except a potentially game breaking glitch (not ST Akuma game breaking - fuck up your save files game breaking). She is quick though, so you can be reminded of her uselessness often within any battle. I guess that accounts for something.
No way is Relm below Umaro. No way should anyone be below Umaro. This should be obvious because everyone else is controllable (with the exception of Gau's Rages, but you get to choose the Rage). I mean, Relm can still double Ultima for one MP, which is much better than anything Umaro has.
Other than that, I can't really comment too much because I'm not too familiar with the game, but Umaro not being dead last is a glaring error.
Also, good job with the Chrono Trigger tiers. They're just about perfect.
Rioting Soul wrote:
Streets of Rage 3
Dr. Zen | Axel | Skate
I must admit that I am not a fan of Cyan in general, so in not using him, I may have missed something. The only really strong point about him I have seen is the Psycho Cyan glitch. While that is really overpowered, it takes quite a few turns to set up properly with many conditions having to be met. In that time, most enemies can be damaged quite a bit with a party of four good characters, so I don't see how that might suddenly turn him into a god like character. Plus, he is completely dependant on two other characters in order to carry out the glitch, so it cannot really be attributed to him being a good character. Rather, it is possible to consider a party like that as top tier on a list of parties.
The tiers I posted were for a Natural Magic Game. That means, nobody can use magic (except for Terra, Celes and Gogo) because they do not learn magic naturally. Thus, Relm is pure shit. Her only good quality normally is having the highest magic power. This does not benefit her without any magic to use. I believe I mentioned all this in the original post.
Final Fantasy 6
The problem with tiering this game is, it's hard to find a "standard." Do you go with "max level/max stats"? At that point, everyone is nearly the same. Do you go with low-level or natural-magic restrictions? You can, but who really plays that way. So the best way is to tier it under an ambiguous "normal" play conditions, whatever you think "normal" is. IMO, that means you can gain spells from Espers, but you don't purposely overlevel nor spend time getting every little secret there is. As such I'd tier FF6:
Top: Terra, Celes, Edgar, Gau
Second: Mog, Shadow, Gogo
Mid: Sabin, Setzer, Locke, Relm
Bottom: Strago, Cyan, Umaro
Silent Shinobi wrote:
Might as well join it:
Dynasty Warriors 3-5:
Wu Dynasty- It seems people down out Wu for specific reasons but it has one positive: strength in numbers. In every battle I've played with or against the Wu, they always outnumber me. This is good for longevity battles. We're talkin bout fuckin 50 MINUTE FIGHTS!!! If you go ahead and kill the commander, it's still 20 minutes but if u like having the odds against you and enjoy 1000 K.O. fights, this is the Dynasty to roll with.
Gan Ning(if you cocky)
Wei Dynasty- This is the mid level dynasty that has fewer officers but strength is upon them. The Wei could be known as the "powerhouse" dynasty due to strength outlook at the beginning of Musou Mode. Slow yet powerful, going against this dynasty could produce more challenge than Wu could dream of. If you like to go for a swift kill to the commander but don't like killing sprees, go against this dynasty. If you want power, USE this dynasty.
Shu Dynasty- The underdogs. Much smaller than Wei or Wu with fewer officers, why should you use this dynasty? Musou Gauge. These officers pack MAJOR musou which means longer devestation to the battlefield. Going against this dynasty isnt much challenge and very few officers for any killing sprees that go past 600 K.O. Although thought to be weak, this dynasty can keep in the battle longer due to another commander in the mist.
Pang Tong(for good musou)
Other Kingdoms- The only thing that keeps this dynasty from sucking is Lu Bu. The others aren't worth your time.
Lu Bu....nuff said....
I will admit, Locke sucks at the WoB, but after, if you don't lvl up any of the characters until the WoR, that's when you notice the potential of many of them. Locke in the end, is one of the best, because I feel you underestimate speed, because he's almost usually the first character to strike, and when maxed, yes, everyone will do ridiculous damage, but it will come down to who will do the most in a succession and the fastest. Magic is great, however later on, it's nothing compared to the genjiglove/offering combo. The most you can do with Ultima is twice with the option of gem box, however, why do that, when there's another combination that's even far better and can kill them even far faster, many monsters would require more than 2 Ultima attacks to kill. Not to mention the offering/genji glove combo will wipe out any boss period, even Kefka who has 64k will die from from the 8x 9999 damage.
Anyone wanna do the FFX-2 dressphere tiers??? Mascot and trainer as well as the special ones are different for each character so I'll leave those alone.
Top: Darknight, Alchemist, Berserker
Upper Mid: Gun Mage, Samurai, Warrior
Low Mid: Thief, White Mage, Lady Luck
Low: Black mage, Songstress
ACK!! NO WAY!!! Cool to see a Metal Warriors fan, but you're soooo mistaken bro. Spider and Ballistic are the BEST, not worst =P.
Top: Spider and Ballistic. Spider's infinite rocks. Ballistic totally shuts down Havoc, Drache, and Nitro. That's half the cast right there. I mean it. You have .000001% chance of beating my Ballistic with Havoc or Nitro, no matter WHO you are! Ballistic can have some SERIOUS problems with Prometheus tho on some levels, but since Prometheus gets slaughtered by most its not really a big deal... as an added bonus, these guys are the hardest to finish off when theyre in "critical" mode. This is what really pushes them over the edge.
then Drache, he's failry good against most but USELESS against Ballistic. Most of his stock comes from the fact that he's pretty good against Spider.
Havoc, Nitro. These guys lack the "one mistake and yuore dead" factor that Spider, Drache, and Prometheus have. And dont have the sheer power of Ballistic. So they clearly have to work harder
Prometheus. He just gets abused by everyone. He basically NEEDS a anti gravity or speed burst to have any chance of winning, cause hes got NO MOBILITY!!! There are some levels where he can be extremely deadly though. On those levels it's justifid to bump him up with Havoc, Nitro, but no higher!
The only matches that are really grossly imbalanced are Ballistic's (in his favor), the rest are very winnable but it takes a lot of work and careful play.
Just friendly discussion. If you disagree feel free to retort, and I can go into better detail
I don't think tiering fighting games is the same as tiering an RPG. They share some aspects, but fighting games also have a bunch of things that simply don't translate well when applied to an RPG. What standards do you judge FF6 by?
If you think leveling all 14 characters up to Level 99 and then comparing their damage potential in battle, well then that's your choice. Personally, I do think an FF6 tier based on maxing out your character's levels and stats is essentially moot. At that point, all your characters are doing 9999 per hit and essentially all of them are pretty much untouchable. Is anything really standing in your way then? I don't think so; and I don't think you can really judge how good a character is in FF6 if you decide to break the game and max everyone out.
I didn't say equipment doesn't matter; but it's not all that matters. Locke's ability to equip the Illumina is indeed a plus on his side, but when characters like Terra (Morph, superior magic, superior other equips); Edgar (owning the WoB with Tools, superior other equips); Gau (Rages completely dominate WoB and are still overpowering in WoR)... equipment isn't everything.
Again, with Locke, I'll agree that if you level him up to 99, give him the Atma Weapon, Valiant Knife, Offering, and Genji Glove, he is capable of the most damage at 9999 x8. But you're missing the very obvious point that it's not Locke that makes that combo good... it's the Level 99 part. At that point, the game is a joke and all the characters are basically god-like compared to the enemies. If you want to find the differences in these god-like characters in order to tier them, then go ahead, but ultimately that tier list doesn't mean much in general at that point.
The same thing with Vanish/Doom; Vanish/X-Zone. That strategy speaks nothing of the character who uses it, and therefore most people ignore it when making a tier list (similar reasoning why people would probably ignore applying Esper stat-raising or Merit Award setups).
bbq sauce wrote:
Somebody with real knowledge of Final Fantasy Tactics (unlike me) should tier that game...
I haven't played that game in years, and there's a lotta different combos you can make... Probably have to tier main characters (Ramza, Orlandu, the chick with the 'break' skills) and the generic jobs seperate.
I'd assume out of the main characters, Orlandu is tops? Since he's got all the sword skills of the other characters, but even stronger..
For jobs, I have no idea.... maybe Lancers for their reach and mobility, plus high attack, and their ability wear heavy armor..? Also, if say an enmey starts a summon, you can jump the turn prior to the summon and avoid any damage IIRC.
If we where to judge it by your standards then Ayla is garbage as I've stated. She is NOT Top Tier then, because it would be Chrono/Robo/lucca, with Ayla in middle tier, because her potential is not realized until she's in the later part of the game where she can deal 9999, that is one of the reasons why she's considered Top Tier...which is pratically maxed lvl. Because in the earlier parts of the game.
I would even go as far as say that Magus is better than her, because Dark Matter has more damage potential then what she can deal in the earlier to mid lvls even almost until the end, it is the near the end of lvling up with Ayla that she truly shines, if we follow your theory, then Ayla isn't so good at all, charm would be one of her only real reasons to use her and her overall speed other than that, Lucca or Magus is a better character at the beginning then her because of their superior magic properties. My comparison of the fighting game status to an rpg has the same universal idea...abusable/fast/powerful. Don't the Top Tier's in fighting games share similar qualities as well as Rpg's to a certain extent?...isn't Chrono one of the fastest characters in the game, can deal exeptionally good pyshical damage, and has very powerful single special attacks and his skills only continue to grow all the way through to lvl **, I do believe so. Yes, they are two completely different games, they may not share 100% similarities but they share the same abusable/fast/high damage ideal purpose for stating a tier listing.
As I've stated before, if maxing the lvls is NOT a considerment for tiering a list than that's pretty lame indeed. Maxed Lvl is Part of the game, and should be taken into affect, to say that it isn't is rather absurd, if you remember correctly, I ranked Locke as Top Dog because of his natural speed in the end, that coupled with the combo makes him one of the best, if not the best because he will always attack first...it is because he is naturally so fast and equipped with this combo that will make him better than the rest...thus the reason why I felt that speed was underrated when it shouldn't be at all. Try equipping the combo to Edgar, although he can deal the 8x 9999 damage, Locke will almost always attack before him, meaning that if Locke had the combo, he would be a far better character than having Edgar use the combo. The Big 4 are definetly above the rest, because they can equip things that the rest can't, which for me does indeed seperate them from the rest.
"Specifics" of a character starts to mean jack towards the end of the lvls in FFVI, you are right, everyone will do ridiculous damage, however it's who does it the most and the fastest, and why shouldn't it be considered, it is indeed the character showing their "full" potential, that's the very reason why character specifics go out the window for FFVI imo.
I stated the vanish/x-zone tatic is because it makes Magic pretty pathetic, another reason why Magic Power isn't a "huge" thing and should not be considered a huge factor for ranking a character, unless your attacking multiple enemies, however, against bosses, with the majority of them being solitary, the vanish/x-zone tatic will wipe them out far faster than using Ultima. If I can skim through the WoB with using this tatic and I got to the WoR with the vanish/x-zone tatic on lvl 14, it goes to show it's superiority over Magic Attacking because there is no way I can get to the WoR on lvl 14 by using magic attacks or pyshical damage, I feel that magic power shouldn't be considered so highly within this game when you have a powerful tool such as vanish/x-zone, in which everyone can use and exploit, and can be a far more effective tool, especially up against bosses.