I must admit that I am not a fan of Cyan in general, so in not using him, I may have missed something. The only really strong point about him I have seen is the Psycho Cyan glitch. While that is really overpowered, it takes quite a few turns to set up properly with many conditions having to be met. In that time, most enemies can be damaged quite a bit with a party of four good characters, so I don't see how that might suddenly turn him into a god like character. Plus, he is completely dependant on two other characters in order to carry out the glitch, so it cannot really be attributed to him being a good character. Rather, it is possible to consider a party like that as top tier on a list of parties.
The tiers I posted were for a Natural Magic Game. That means, nobody can use magic (except for Terra, Celes and Gogo) because they do not learn magic naturally. Thus, Relm is pure shit. Her only good quality normally is having the highest magic power. This does not benefit her without any magic to use. I believe I mentioned all this in the original post.
Final Fantasy 6
The problem with tiering this game is, it's hard to find a "standard." Do you go with "max level/max stats"? At that point, everyone is nearly the same. Do you go with low-level or natural-magic restrictions? You can, but who really plays that way. So the best way is to tier it under an ambiguous "normal" play conditions, whatever you think "normal" is. IMO, that means you can gain spells from Espers, but you don't purposely overlevel nor spend time getting every little secret there is. As such I'd tier FF6:
Top: Terra, Celes, Edgar, Gau
Second: Mog, Shadow, Gogo
Mid: Sabin, Setzer, Locke, Relm
Bottom: Strago, Cyan, Umaro
Silent Shinobi wrote:
Might as well join it:
Dynasty Warriors 3-5:
Wu Dynasty- It seems people down out Wu for specific reasons but it has one positive: strength in numbers. In every battle I've played with or against the Wu, they always outnumber me. This is good for longevity battles. We're talkin bout fuckin 50 MINUTE FIGHTS!!! If you go ahead and kill the commander, it's still 20 minutes but if u like having the odds against you and enjoy 1000 K.O. fights, this is the Dynasty to roll with.
Gan Ning(if you cocky)
Wei Dynasty- This is the mid level dynasty that has fewer officers but strength is upon them. The Wei could be known as the "powerhouse" dynasty due to strength outlook at the beginning of Musou Mode. Slow yet powerful, going against this dynasty could produce more challenge than Wu could dream of. If you like to go for a swift kill to the commander but don't like killing sprees, go against this dynasty. If you want power, USE this dynasty.
Shu Dynasty- The underdogs. Much smaller than Wei or Wu with fewer officers, why should you use this dynasty? Musou Gauge. These officers pack MAJOR musou which means longer devestation to the battlefield. Going against this dynasty isnt much challenge and very few officers for any killing sprees that go past 600 K.O. Although thought to be weak, this dynasty can keep in the battle longer due to another commander in the mist.
Pang Tong(for good musou)
Other Kingdoms- The only thing that keeps this dynasty from sucking is Lu Bu. The others aren't worth your time.
Lu Bu....nuff said....
I will admit, Locke sucks at the WoB, but after, if you don't lvl up any of the characters until the WoR, that's when you notice the potential of many of them. Locke in the end, is one of the best, because I feel you underestimate speed, because he's almost usually the first character to strike, and when maxed, yes, everyone will do ridiculous damage, but it will come down to who will do the most in a succession and the fastest. Magic is great, however later on, it's nothing compared to the genjiglove/offering combo. The most you can do with Ultima is twice with the option of gem box, however, why do that, when there's another combination that's even far better and can kill them even far faster, many monsters would require more than 2 Ultima attacks to kill. Not to mention the offering/genji glove combo will wipe out any boss period, even Kefka who has 64k will die from from the 8x 9999 damage.
Anyone wanna do the FFX-2 dressphere tiers??? Mascot and trainer as well as the special ones are different for each character so I'll leave those alone.
Top: Darknight, Alchemist, Berserker
Upper Mid: Gun Mage, Samurai, Warrior
Low Mid: Thief, White Mage, Lady Luck
Low: Black mage, Songstress
ACK!! NO WAY!!! Cool to see a Metal Warriors fan, but you're soooo mistaken bro. Spider and Ballistic are the BEST, not worst =P.
Top: Spider and Ballistic. Spider's infinite rocks. Ballistic totally shuts down Havoc, Drache, and Nitro. That's half the cast right there. I mean it. You have .000001% chance of beating my Ballistic with Havoc or Nitro, no matter WHO you are! Ballistic can have some SERIOUS problems with Prometheus tho on some levels, but since Prometheus gets slaughtered by most its not really a big deal... as an added bonus, these guys are the hardest to finish off when theyre in "critical" mode. This is what really pushes them over the edge.
then Drache, he's failry good against most but USELESS against Ballistic. Most of his stock comes from the fact that he's pretty good against Spider.
Havoc, Nitro. These guys lack the "one mistake and yuore dead" factor that Spider, Drache, and Prometheus have. And dont have the sheer power of Ballistic. So they clearly have to work harder
Prometheus. He just gets abused by everyone. He basically NEEDS a anti gravity or speed burst to have any chance of winning, cause hes got NO MOBILITY!!! There are some levels where he can be extremely deadly though. On those levels it's justifid to bump him up with Havoc, Nitro, but no higher!
The only matches that are really grossly imbalanced are Ballistic's (in his favor), the rest are very winnable but it takes a lot of work and careful play.
Just friendly discussion. If you disagree feel free to retort, and I can go into better detail
I don't think tiering fighting games is the same as tiering an RPG. They share some aspects, but fighting games also have a bunch of things that simply don't translate well when applied to an RPG. What standards do you judge FF6 by?
If you think leveling all 14 characters up to Level 99 and then comparing their damage potential in battle, well then that's your choice. Personally, I do think an FF6 tier based on maxing out your character's levels and stats is essentially moot. At that point, all your characters are doing 9999 per hit and essentially all of them are pretty much untouchable. Is anything really standing in your way then? I don't think so; and I don't think you can really judge how good a character is in FF6 if you decide to break the game and max everyone out.
I didn't say equipment doesn't matter; but it's not all that matters. Locke's ability to equip the Illumina is indeed a plus on his side, but when characters like Terra (Morph, superior magic, superior other equips); Edgar (owning the WoB with Tools, superior other equips); Gau (Rages completely dominate WoB and are still overpowering in WoR)... equipment isn't everything.
Again, with Locke, I'll agree that if you level him up to 99, give him the Atma Weapon, Valiant Knife, Offering, and Genji Glove, he is capable of the most damage at 9999 x8. But you're missing the very obvious point that it's not Locke that makes that combo good... it's the Level 99 part. At that point, the game is a joke and all the characters are basically god-like compared to the enemies. If you want to find the differences in these god-like characters in order to tier them, then go ahead, but ultimately that tier list doesn't mean much in general at that point.
The same thing with Vanish/Doom; Vanish/X-Zone. That strategy speaks nothing of the character who uses it, and therefore most people ignore it when making a tier list (similar reasoning why people would probably ignore applying Esper stat-raising or Merit Award setups).
bbq sauce wrote:
Somebody with real knowledge of Final Fantasy Tactics (unlike me) should tier that game...
I haven't played that game in years, and there's a lotta different combos you can make... Probably have to tier main characters (Ramza, Orlandu, the chick with the 'break' skills) and the generic jobs seperate.
I'd assume out of the main characters, Orlandu is tops? Since he's got all the sword skills of the other characters, but even stronger..
For jobs, I have no idea.... maybe Lancers for their reach and mobility, plus high attack, and their ability wear heavy armor..? Also, if say an enmey starts a summon, you can jump the turn prior to the summon and avoid any damage IIRC.
If we where to judge it by your standards then Ayla is garbage as I've stated. She is NOT Top Tier then, because it would be Chrono/Robo/lucca, with Ayla in middle tier, because her potential is not realized until she's in the later part of the game where she can deal 9999, that is one of the reasons why she's considered Top Tier...which is pratically maxed lvl. Because in the earlier parts of the game.
I would even go as far as say that Magus is better than her, because Dark Matter has more damage potential then what she can deal in the earlier to mid lvls even almost until the end, it is the near the end of lvling up with Ayla that she truly shines, if we follow your theory, then Ayla isn't so good at all, charm would be one of her only real reasons to use her and her overall speed other than that, Lucca or Magus is a better character at the beginning then her because of their superior magic properties. My comparison of the fighting game status to an rpg has the same universal idea...abusable/fast/powerful. Don't the Top Tier's in fighting games share similar qualities as well as Rpg's to a certain extent?...isn't Chrono one of the fastest characters in the game, can deal exeptionally good pyshical damage, and has very powerful single special attacks and his skills only continue to grow all the way through to lvl **, I do believe so. Yes, they are two completely different games, they may not share 100% similarities but they share the same abusable/fast/high damage ideal purpose for stating a tier listing.
As I've stated before, if maxing the lvls is NOT a considerment for tiering a list than that's pretty lame indeed. Maxed Lvl is Part of the game, and should be taken into affect, to say that it isn't is rather absurd, if you remember correctly, I ranked Locke as Top Dog because of his natural speed in the end, that coupled with the combo makes him one of the best, if not the best because he will always attack first...it is because he is naturally so fast and equipped with this combo that will make him better than the rest...thus the reason why I felt that speed was underrated when it shouldn't be at all. Try equipping the combo to Edgar, although he can deal the 8x 9999 damage, Locke will almost always attack before him, meaning that if Locke had the combo, he would be a far better character than having Edgar use the combo. The Big 4 are definetly above the rest, because they can equip things that the rest can't, which for me does indeed seperate them from the rest.
"Specifics" of a character starts to mean jack towards the end of the lvls in FFVI, you are right, everyone will do ridiculous damage, however it's who does it the most and the fastest, and why shouldn't it be considered, it is indeed the character showing their "full" potential, that's the very reason why character specifics go out the window for FFVI imo.
I stated the vanish/x-zone tatic is because it makes Magic pretty pathetic, another reason why Magic Power isn't a "huge" thing and should not be considered a huge factor for ranking a character, unless your attacking multiple enemies, however, against bosses, with the majority of them being solitary, the vanish/x-zone tatic will wipe them out far faster than using Ultima. If I can skim through the WoB with using this tatic and I got to the WoR with the vanish/x-zone tatic on lvl 14, it goes to show it's superiority over Magic Attacking because there is no way I can get to the WoR on lvl 14 by using magic attacks or pyshical damage, I feel that magic power shouldn't be considered so highly within this game when you have a powerful tool such as vanish/x-zone, in which everyone can use and exploit, and can be a far more effective tool, especially up against bosses.
Thanks Ouro. I didn't realize Lady Luck was that powerful. How could you get the slots to do anything you want? I basically just stuck with Gunner + catnip and didn't really explore anything else. Is Samurai really that good? I always believed BErserker was better. Samurai didn't seem to get the damage in fast enough I found.
Basic Character Classes/Skill Sets
Best Skill Sets=
God Tier= Math Skill
Top Tier= Martial Arts, Draw Out
Mid Tier= Throw, Geomancy, Battle Skill, Item, Steal, Jump,
Low Tier= Black Magic, Summon, White Magic,
Really Low Tier= Time Magic, Yin Yang Magic, Talk Skill, Dance, Basic Skill, Sing,
Math skill is god. Instant, Full Screen, No MP Spells with a selection of 90% of the spells in the game.
Martial Arts and Draw Out are great for their versatility, Healing, Support, Attack.
Battle Skill is great w/ Two Swords to lower stats, thus cripping opponents (to perhaps steal). Item is instant healing/revive/cure status. Steal is essential to get good items. Jump takes too long at first and can't easy AT plan (have to do calculations). But with high speed/ Jav2, it's good.
Throw and Geomancy are ok. Nothing special. Throw is nice with top tier swords... but that's alotta work (or alotta dupe) to get them.
Magic Skill Sets are crap. Take too damn long. And without proper AT planning, you can really screw up. Only useful spells: BM= Flare WM=Holy and area affect cures. Summons take too long, and are weak, but Golem is hella good.
Time/Yin Yang/Talk are all craptastic. Dance is worthless, no damage.
Charge is the worst skill set ever. IT's the skillset that makes archers the worst class in the game by far. Anything over charge 4 you're not going to hit on anyone, and it doesn't do that much more damage.
Best Special Characters
God Tier= 1.Reis 2.Orlandu
Orlandu because he's orlandu and can Night sword all day. Reis because she has two swords and train built in, gets huge stat bonuses, and can use Ribbon/Chantage to make her indestructible. Just put Martial Arts as her secondary skill. Watch the pain.
Beowulf because Chicken, Shock, and Break are awesome and instant. Ramza's Scream, Yell, And Ultima are pretty good, but his equipment selection is what makes him awesome. He can wear knight swords and stat boosting robes and clothes naturally, the only character who can do so. His magic stat is great in this class, making him a no brainer choice to have math skill.
Mid Tier= Agrias, Mustadio
Both of these characters will do a TON of gruntwork in Chapters 2 and 3... but fall off in chapter 4. Agrias is Orlandu Lite (but can use ribbon/chantage). And Mustadio's Snipe skills work WAY more than they should at 8 squares away.
Low Tier= Meliadoul, Worker 8, Cloud
Meliadoul's Skills only work on humans, but on those, they're great. You may want to steal instead of break though. Worker 8 is immune to magic, but hurts himself when he attacks. Good range and power though. Cloud pretty much sucks except for Finishing Touch, which is an auto kill on any enemy. Materia Blade is a crappy weapon too.
Worthless Tier= Rafa, Malak
So seriously beyond shitty. Random area effect Low Damage skills? You have to be joking. Only good thing about them is Rafa is good at item finding.
Reasons for my tierings:
1) Drache - Top because of his speed and his drop attack. He can play run away with his ability to fire one way and move the other, or he can play aggressively and go for his drop attack (which will kill any other mech in one hit). Also, by tapping block you can clear bridges, thus slowing down all of the other mechs.
2) Prometheus - High because of his strength at long and short range. Prometheus is the only mech that has bullets which travel all of the way across the screen, this means that all other mechs will probably take a few hits before they get close. Also his long range shots do the damage of 8 regular shots. His melee weapon will kill any mech if they are caught in it for more than a second which eliminates hth as an effective way of defeting him. His floating mines do enough damage to prevent enemys from trying to drop from above (except for Drache who can survive enough mines to destroy Prometheus unless Drache is dropping in a very high chasm). The best way to fight him is at midrange, where all other mechs will still take a lot of hits (and a whole lot of hits if Prometheus has seekers or bouncy bullets). His only real weakness is that he has to take elevators which leave him very vunerable. But you can win most matches on the bottom of the stage (since his slugs travel all of the way across the stage, then go eight ways when they explode). Also fighting Drache is a problem since Prometheus is so slow, hiding in a narrow corridor is the best way to fight him, and this isn't even all that effective since Drache can move quickly and strafe Prometheus.
3) Nitro - Mid-High because of his versitility. He is quick, he can fly and his melee weapon has good range and damage. Because of his ability to fly he can rush the enemy mech down and melee them to death, this is especially effective when combined with a grenade launcher. He can also use his X button shield to mount a safe mid rang attack or he can use it to do damage to an enemy which is chasing him. The only mechs he really has a problem with are Prometheus because his fire kills Nitro quick, and Drache because his drop is always a risk.
4) Havoc - Mid. Havoc's melee weapon is ok, better range than Nitro's but less damage. His bullets are stronger than the other mech's (and they look cooler too). He can't fly which doesn't enable him to chase other mechs. But his X button dash lets him move very fast and jump really far. Also when using his dash bullets he fires during it will queue up in front of him, this enables him to make a great hit and run mech.
5) Spider - Mid-Low because he is too fragile. Spider is very fast, very manuverable, has great damage potential, his block makes him invisible, but his is just too fragile to be ranked higher. A direct attack against anything (except Ballistic) will get you killed. His best tactic is the super deadly web trap (I assume this is what you mean by infinite). The real problem with this is that it is only a true infinite versus Ballistic (in ball form) and Prometheus (in the air). The other mechs can either shoot their way out in the air, or melee out on the ground. Granted it does massive damage, but if the other player escapes spider is dead.
6) Ballistic - Low because he can't move and shoot. His melee weapon is his only means of doing damage on the move, but it is so weak that it is better used as a means of moving around. The only time it is really effective is in narrow corridors and even then the other mech's melee weapon will probably kill Ballistic first. Charging his X button attack for a big shot then tapping it for a bunch of medium sized shots is his best tactic. However, this takes so long to charge that the other player has plenty of time to move in and melee you, unless they are Prometheus (but Prometheus wins if a fire fight so that really doesn't matter). Also, hit and run tactics don't work since it takes Ballistic so long to "unpack" before he can shoot.
Feel free to argue with me, but it is going to take a lot of convincing for me to believe that Ballistic is top.
DaBoss... First, don't try to assume I don't know anything about the game b/c my opinions are different than yours.
You went into that whole spiel, but our opinions are different on only a couple of issues.
Reis vs Orlandu= Honestly, It all comes down to Reis being the best female character, and she can equip Chantage and Ribbon. She can't die, and is immune to all status effects. So, yes, she can beat the game by herself. Innate two swords is amazing. Her innate MA and MP are better than Orlandu's, so if you choose to use other skill sets (Math/Draw/Punch), she is amazing at them. Orlandu has better range (better move, more reach on skills and can use Move +3), and a VASTLY better skill set. But I give a slight edge to Reis due to being able to equip Chantage/Ribbon. I've seen Orlandu humbled plenty of times by Celia and Lede.
Anyway... On Rafa/Malak. I tried so hard to make them work. Yes, I know they have sticks. Only thing I liked about them, really. I tried to make Malak into a 0 faith/97 brave blade grasping Hell Knight... and he still didn't pull his weight.
Punch Art- Sheer Versatility. decent damage, some range, and some healing properties. Sure, the vert range sucks. Gotta gameplan for that. But the versatility makes the set. And you can regain MP with Chakra. Which is very useful.
Basic Skill vs Charge... at least I can use accumulate. Charge is "free" damage, I guess... but so is accumulate. Accumulate is also the best JP builder in the game. Adv= basic skill.
Battle Skill- I can see where a lotta people say this skill set isn't good... but time and time again I go back to it. I don't use it w/ guns... I use Ninja's and/or 2 swords. Ninja's work best since they move far and fast. Two swipes of Power Break cripples any enemy in the game, and you can do whatever you want (build JP, steal, item find, whatever)
Magic in General= I think you overrate. Charge times are the suck, when there are so many skills (even with AOE) that do damage NOW, when you need to kill enemies, as opposed to when enemies can move, you mage get attacked, etc. Also, with few exceptions... classes with good MA can't take a damn hit, and if you want high faith to cast magic well, you take MORE damage from the magic. Lose/Lose situation, IMO.
Time Mage= I will grant you I haven't messed around w/ Demi much. But most of the bosses die really quickly regardless. Haste is good. Meteor takes too much damn time. So, IMO, only thing this SkillSet has (i guess outside of boss battles) is haste and a really slow super spell. Wheee.
Yin Yang= Best thing about this set is that it doesn't rely on MA. So fighters and such can use it with good effeciancy. Unfortunately, you'd rather attack with those guys and KILL the enemy, not put them to sleep or some such. While I guess they can be useful, the presence of Beowulf makes this skill set obsolete.
Black Magic- Flare and Frog are the only Decent abilities, IMO since it locks on, and won't hurt your party. The Charge times suck, IMO
White- Cure and Holy, You're right. But they have charge times... zzzz..
Summon Magic= Honestly, I like it better than black or white. And you can't Math it either, so that makes it unique. But... the MP costs and AT are VERY prohibitive. Can't do both Short Charge AND Half of MP. Golem is by far the best skill. Almost worth having someone with the skill set alone. But I always find myself either planning 2 minutes for AT times, or having a Summon only hit one person. The Ifrit/Shiva/Titan trio are fast, but do crap for damage. Anything more than that, you're using two turns to do one spell. I hate that. And having Short Charge as ESSENTIAL to use skills (Limit.. cough..) does not a good skill set make.
But yeah. Thanks for engaging in the discussion. That's just how I see things. Don't assume i'm a beginner though. I've master filed this game a number of times. I just have different opinions on usefulness.
You're right, I wouldn't rate Ayla as a top tier. She gets Bronze Fist at level 96; before that she gets Iron Fist at level 72; and for the rest of the time, she was stuck with just a regular Fist. By the time she's hitting for 9999 damage, you would've been lightyears passed where the game actually presented any sort of challenge to you. If I were to tier RPGs, I would generally base them around a "standard" or "normal" playthrough conditions. When you've gone out of your way to break the game by leveling everyone to the max to the point where everything has become a joke, then a tier based on that wouldn't really give anything informative other than: who can cause the most overkill.
Again, you keep bringing up 9999 x8 with Locke while ignoring the very obvious fact that you overleveled your characters to a point where nothing poses a threat to any of them. At that point, it's not the character himself/herself that is good; it's the "Level 99" part that is making you do the damage. If you want to tier FF6 as "the person who can provide the most overkill when max leveled," yes, Locke will be #1. If you play through the game without maxing everyone out, and without abusing crap like Vanish/Doom, you'd actually see the worth of each character, and your opinion might change then.
Locke's speed is constantly overrated. The way FF6's ATB system works is, as long as a character's ATB bar is full, he/she gets a turn. This takes into account all the attack animation as well. Locke's bar will probably fill up first because of his high speed, but battles will generally play out like this:
1. Locke's ATB bar fills up first, Locke attacks (animates)
2. Character 2's ATB bar fills up next, Character 2 attacks (animates)
3. Characters 3-4; Enemies' ATB bars fill up, they attack in turn (animates)
4. Locke, who probably had a full bar sometime during step 3 STILL has to wait for his turn because he has to wait for all the attack animation of step 3 to finish
5. Repeat from step 1
All Locke's speed does is probably ensure that he gets to attack first and that his bar fills up faster. On paper, it sounds really good; but in practice, it's really not as spectacular as everyone makes his speed out to be. Locke is still forced to wait until everyone who got a full ATB bar after him finishes their animation, at which point he'll go again and the cycle repeats.
"Big 4" meaning those who can equip Illumina... that's a pretty shoddy top tier requirement. Especially because:
1. You don't get the Illumina until over half the game is over, essentially ignoring the whole WoB and decent chunk of WoR.
2. The way you're judging things is by maxing everyone's level to 99, which I've stated why that type of ranking really means jack about how the character plays.
Vanish/Doom; Vanish/X-Zone is broken. I think if a person was serious about making a character tier list in FF6, they'd disregard that. I've gone through the game with most characters at Level 6 and never having to use Vanish/Doom; so don't think that it is impossible to beat the game without it. You underestimate magic because you used a broken glitch. You might as well just make your tier list:
Top tier: Level 99 characters, Vanish/Doom
Bottom tier: anything else
But then again, what good is that tier list going to be?
Magic is very good if you play through the game "normally," and that Magic Power stat affects a lot more attacks than just spells.
why did no one mention teleport and blade grasp? Teleport is awesome in Deep Dungeon since there is no height restriction and you can walk through walls. As long as you stay within 4 panels, teleport pretty much never fails, 5 gets iffy, but still relatively consistent.
Blade Grasp makes you immune to 90% of all enemies in the game.
female black mage with math skill is by far the best class/skill combo. I would rank them (with the right equipment) above any special characters, even TG Cid. reasoning? ribbon makes things broken, faith rod makes her magic never miss. She doesn't need to move to kill people, meaning she recovers AT faster. Add in some haste, and she'll clear the board long before TG Cid can.
I was never a fan of Worker 8. you can't haste him/heal him without someone using the Item skill, which is a waste of a slot. he doesn't move very fast/far, can't learn anything useful, and stats were mediocore compared to broken items that you can equip onto other characters.
For chrono trigger:
Marle + Lucca combo is awesome. Antipode team spell is awesome.
Basically Crono attacking/lumminare all day, and just antipode away and you win.
FF6: I dunno, i cheated with game genie to dup items :P
Disgaea: Majin > * You only need majin's, and yoshi tsuna is the most broken weapon ever.
Well, we were comparing primary skillsets. And TG Cid is god among all the special characters, but anything with Math Skill is better.
Back on the DW topic...
I've played DW 2-5, and I gotta tell ya...
no matter HOW many times you guys talk smack about the lack of speed on the Wei side...
I will STILL own you with Xu Zhu. That's right. The fat guy.
Reason being, I can parry. Reason being, I don't NEED to be fast. You guys can run to me...I'll be waiting and block ya...or better yet, parry your attack. Plus, charge in the air is just awesomely good with him -- I call it the Pogo-Ball. So, go ahead...you can have your spear characters, and flashy quick happy characters -- but unless you're a Musou Token charged-up Lu-Bu...
I'm not worried one bit.
Locke's often misplaced at the top only because people either:
1. overrate his speed stat, thinking that high speed = more attacks in battle
2. people overlevel him to the point where the game doesn't matter anymore and show that Locke can provide the most overkill
3. people think that equipping the Illumina is the only factor for determining top tier
Or some combination of the three above. So basically, your tier list is this:
Top tier: Level 99 characters who can do the most overkill
Middle tier: Vanish/Doom; other Level 99 characters
Ain't really much of a tier list. But hey, if you like to tier the game when your characters are all basically the same, and the only difference is based on their equips, go right ahead. It's just that kind of tier list ultimately doesn't give any information about each individual character, and therefore is kinda worthless.