Tiers for non-fighting games?

2456769

Comments

  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Way of the Samurai 2

    -Top Tier (swords)
    Biteikotsu
    Hairando

    -Upper mid
    Murasame
    Izumo-no-shira
    (God) Zankimaru
    Rinne
    Oborokuziyo


    Final Fantasy VII

    -Top
    Aerith (who else can make your party invincible?)
    Yuffie (Conformer + Morph = happy source collecting)

    -Mid (multi-hitting limits)
    Cloud
    Barret
    Cid

    -Bottom (randomness and one-hit limits aren't good)
    Red XIII
    Vincent
    Tifa
    Cait Sith
  • mslanomslano ODB Joined: Posts: 20
    FF6 Tiers

    I suppose I'll contribute another set of RPG tiers. These are not as solid as my Chrono Trigger tiers because I am not as intimately familiar with the game. Still, I think they are fairly accurate.

    Final Fantasy 6 Natural Magic Game* Tiers

    *Characters cannot equip anything that teaches a spell unless that character already knows that spell.

    Top Tier:
    Terra - She still has magic, which simply wins in FF6. In addition, she really good equipment and Morph, which is just absurd.

    Gau - Gau is the versatility machine.Rages give him a variety of riduclous stuff, including attacks which act as the equivalent to level 3 magic almost immediately after he joins the party. He also has the Stray Cat rage, which does 4x attack 25% of the time. Also, he can equip the Snow Muffler, which is an insanely high defense armor.

    Celes - She also has magic, though not as strong as Terra. She is pretty similar to Terra in nearly every regard, though she has the added option of imping herself and being set up as an imp fighter or dragoon (with the imp equipment all being very good).

    Gogo - Has access to magic through mimic. Only person who can equip things that normally teach magic (since it cannot learn spells). This is of primary importance because of the Paladin Shield. Beats Gau in versatility, but because of stats, does not do everything quite as well.

    Mid Tier:
    Mog - Dances do really well in the World of Balance (with incredible levels of ownage on the Floating Continent), but fall off in World of Ruin. Fortunately, he can immediately switch to a dragoon setup. This works really well because he can equip the Pearl/Aura Lance and is very quick, allowing for many attacks at once through Dragon Horn. He too can equip the Snow Muffler, so he can absorb damage if not acting as a dragoon.

    Edgar - Could conceivably be higher than Mog because the difference between their abilities is slight. Instead of dances , Edgar has tools, which also do well in World of Balance before falling off in World of Ruin. He has very good equipment, but most of it does not work with his dragoon setup, which is his best option in World of Ruin.

    Setzer - Slots are very good throughout the game if the player has taken the time to learn how to use them effectively. Regardless, they still do decent damage with easy to achieve 7-Flush. Becomes really effective with Fixed Dice and Offering, which can be obtained very easily as soon as Mog is acquired. Fixed Dice do not suffer from Offering's usual 50% damage reduction, so Setzer becomes a very effective source of damage.

    Shadow - Begins the game with very good stats, which become more important without the stat boosting Espers. Throw is a very good skill, even using cheap and easy to acquire Shurikens. Throw also allows for a variety of elemental attacks, which are hard to find without magic. Also, Throw allows Shadow to make the entire party immune to physical attakcs and to heal party members (throw Earth Rods at Gaia Gear wearers). Plus, he has Interceptor, who is simply awesome.

    Low Tier:
    Strago - Lores allow for magic equivalent attacks, even though they are difficult to find (much harder than Gau's good rages, which are mostly found immediately). Beyond that, Strago has pretty good M. Block and can use Healing Rods on members of the party.

    Sabin - Everybody loves to put Sabin really high normally, but NMG reveals that he starts out as an average character and then becomes overshadowed quickly. Blitzes are pretty good for damage early in World of Balance, but lose effectiveness later because of his low magic power. In this regard, he is completely useless when Gogo enters the party (Gogo can use Blitzes and does more damage because of higher magic power).

    Locke - Locke is normally very good, but cannot compete in a NMG. His best option for damage late in the game is Genji Glove and Offering. The problem is this setup requires very high vigor, which cannot be increased in NMG with the lack of Espers. Thus, Locke is left behind in damage pretty quickly by many characters. Still, he has good equipment, good speed and a decent skill early on with Steal/Mug. These keep him out of Bottom Tier.

    Bottom Tier:
    Cyan - Cyan is good when he first enters the party and then never again. Dispatch is better than his normal attack, but it still is not very good. His other STechs are slow and thus ineffective.

    Umaro - Completely random and not very good (though above Relm).

    Relm - Has very high magic power which completly goes to waste. Beyond that, she has nothing except a potentially game breaking glitch (not ST Akuma game breaking - fuck up your save files game breaking). She is quick though, so you can be reminded of her uselessness often within any battle. I guess that accounts for something.
    Trying is the first step towards failure.
    -Homer Simpson

    Av by me.
  • shadowcharlieshadowcharlie ★ஜ۩dip۞set۩ஜ★ Joined: Posts: 9,170 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    theres an ooold as thread where we tier everything from bushido blade to all the ff games i suggest u people find it very good resource
    off the top of my head
    no fuckin way cid is that low in ff7 chars with one hit limits? are u kidding me?
    no way cyan wherehe is cyan is the most god like char in the game ff6

    someone explain how xp professional is lower then xp home...
    bust my gun at the sun just to sit in the shade~
    ἐξίσταται γὰρ πάντ' ἀπ' ἀλλήλων δίχα
  • PozerWolfPozerWolf Gummies, yum! ;o Joined: Posts: 8,378 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Iczer one wrote:
    [Star Ocean 3]

    [ S ] Maria
    [ A+] Cliff
    [ A ] Nel, Sophia, Albel
    [ B ] Fayt, Mirage, Peppita
    [ C ] Adray, Roger
    Actually, thats a bit wrong.

    Sophia was broken.
    Maria and Nel were top.
    Fayt and the others were... urm... I forget the rest.

    I remember Sophia could easily do 100% stun combos on everyone, including Freya on 4D. Just have her max out INT and keep casting the movie Lightning Strike (I think that was the name of it).

    There was more to the combo, but it was because of LS it made the combo possible.



    EDIT: Oops, I thought the whole 6 hours back thing deleted my first post, hahahahaha.
    All I do is draw naked birds all day.
    Twitter; PozerWolf
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Hanzo Hattori and Hideyoshi Hashiba are top tier to me cause I play with them TOO damn much!! And dude if u played Xtreme Legends, Put Tadakatsu on there. On game he's supposedly equal to Keiji.

    I gotta pick up XL at some point, I love me some Koei games, so it's inevitable, probably before I pick up DW5. Hanzo is the effin' man, yeah, I kinda left him out....him, Mitsuhide and Yukimura were the first peeps I finished it with....
  • mslanomslano ODB Joined: Posts: 20
    no way cyan wherehe is cyan is the most god like char in the game ff6

    I must admit that I am not a fan of Cyan in general, so in not using him, I may have missed something. The only really strong point about him I have seen is the Psycho Cyan glitch. While that is really overpowered, it takes quite a few turns to set up properly with many conditions having to be met. In that time, most enemies can be damaged quite a bit with a party of four good characters, so I don't see how that might suddenly turn him into a god like character. Plus, he is completely dependant on two other characters in order to carry out the glitch, so it cannot really be attributed to him being a good character. Rather, it is possible to consider a party like that as top tier on a list of parties.
    Trying is the first step towards failure.
    -Homer Simpson

    Av by me.
  • Rioting SoulRioting Soul Joined: Posts: 4,931 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Sex Cowboy wrote:
    Yeah, I'm also curious as to how Sweet Tooth got so high. I'd love a detailed analysis of the TM2 tiers.

    Sorry abut that, was thinking about a different version of Sweet Tooth. For TM3, was there a code that made Primeval selectable. That thing was sweet.
  • DaBossDaBoss Joined: Posts: 26
    mslano wrote:
    I suppose I'll contribute another set of RPG tiers. These are not as solid as my Chrono Trigger tiers because I am not as intimately familiar with the game. Still, I think they are fairly accurate.

    Final Fantasy 6 Natural Magic Game* Tiers

    *Characters cannot equip anything that teaches a spell unless that character already knows that spell.

    Top Tier:
    Terra - She still has magic, which simply wins in FF6. In addition, she really good equipment and Morph, which is just absurd.

    Gau - Gau is the versatility machine.Rages give him a variety of riduclous stuff, including attacks which act as the equivalent to level 3 magic almost immediately after he joins the party. He also has the Stray Cat rage, which does 4x attack 25% of the time. Also, he can equip the Snow Muffler, which is an insanely high defense armor.

    Celes - She also has magic, though not as strong as Terra. She is pretty similar to Terra in nearly every regard, though she has the added option of imping herself and being set up as an imp fighter or dragoon (with the imp equipment all being very good).

    Gogo - Has access to magic through mimic. Only person who can equip things that normally teach magic (since it cannot learn spells). This is of primary importance because of the Paladin Shield. Beats Gau in versatility, but because of stats, does not do everything quite as well.

    Mid Tier:
    Mog - Dances do really well in the World of Balance (with incredible levels of ownage on the Floating Continent), but fall off in World of Ruin. Fortunately, he can immediately switch to a dragoon setup. This works really well because he can equip the Pearl/Aura Lance and is very quick, allowing for many attacks at once through Dragon Horn. He too can equip the Snow Muffler, so he can absorb damage if not acting as a dragoon.

    Edgar - Could conceivably be higher than Mog because the difference between their abilities is slight. Instead of dances , Edgar has tools, which also do well in World of Balance before falling off in World of Ruin. He has very good equipment, but most of it does not work with his dragoon setup, which is his best option in World of Ruin.

    Setzer - Slots are very good throughout the game if the player has taken the time to learn how to use them effectively. Regardless, they still do decent damage with easy to achieve 7-Flush. Becomes really effective with Fixed Dice and Offering, which can be obtained very easily as soon as Mog is acquired. Fixed Dice do not suffer from Offering's usual 50% damage reduction, so Setzer becomes a very effective source of damage.

    Shadow - Begins the game with very good stats, which become more important without the stat boosting Espers. Throw is a very good skill, even using cheap and easy to acquire Shurikens. Throw also allows for a variety of elemental attacks, which are hard to find without magic. Also, Throw allows Shadow to make the entire party immune to physical attakcs and to heal party members (throw Earth Rods at Gaia Gear wearers). Plus, he has Interceptor, who is simply awesome.

    Low Tier:
    Strago - Lores allow for magic equivalent attacks, even though they are difficult to find (much harder than Gau's good rages, which are mostly found immediately). Beyond that, Strago has pretty good M. Block and can use Healing Rods on members of the party.

    Sabin - Everybody loves to put Sabin really high normally, but NMG reveals that he starts out as an average character and then becomes overshadowed quickly. Blitzes are pretty good for damage early in World of Balance, but lose effectiveness later because of his low magic power. In this regard, he is completely useless when Gogo enters the party (Gogo can use Blitzes and does more damage because of higher magic power).

    Locke - Locke is normally very good, but cannot compete in a NMG. His best option for damage late in the game is Genji Glove and Offering. The problem is this setup requires very high vigor, which cannot be increased in NMG with the lack of Espers. Thus, Locke is left behind in damage pretty quickly by many characters. Still, he has good equipment, good speed and a decent skill early on with Steal/Mug. These keep him out of Bottom Tier.

    Bottom Tier:
    Cyan - Cyan is good when he first enters the party and then never again. Dispatch is better than his normal attack, but it still is not very good. His other STechs are slow and thus ineffective.

    Umaro - Completely random and not very good (though above Relm).

    Relm - Has very high magic power which completly goes to waste. Beyond that, she has nothing except a potentially game breaking glitch (not ST Akuma game breaking - fuck up your save files game breaking). She is quick though, so you can be reminded of her uselessness often within any battle. I guess that accounts for something.


    No way is Relm below Umaro. No way should anyone be below Umaro. This should be obvious because everyone else is controllable (with the exception of Gau's Rages, but you get to choose the Rage). I mean, Relm can still double Ultima for one MP, which is much better than anything Umaro has.

    Other than that, I can't really comment too much because I'm not too familiar with the game, but Umaro not being dead last is a glaring error.

    Also, good job with the Chrono Trigger tiers. They're just about perfect.
  • mslanomslano ODB Joined: Posts: 20
    DaBoss wrote:
    No way is Relm below Umaro. No way should anyone be below Umaro. This should be obvious because everyone else is controllable (with the exception of Gau's Rages, but you get to choose the Rage). I mean, Relm can still double Ultima for one MP, which is much better than anything Umaro has.

    Other than that, I can't really comment too much because I'm not too familiar with the game, but Umaro not being dead last is a glaring error.

    Also, good job with the Chrono Trigger tiers. They're just about perfect.

    The tiers I posted were for a Natural Magic Game. That means, nobody can use magic (except for Terra, Celes and Gogo) because they do not learn magic naturally. Thus, Relm is pure shit. Her only good quality normally is having the highest magic power. This does not benefit her without any magic to use. I believe I mentioned all this in the original post.
    Trying is the first step towards failure.
    -Homer Simpson

    Av by me.
  • KorigamaKorigama 所在無い Joined: Posts: 547
    Streets of Rage 3
    Roo
    Dr. Zen | Axel | Skate
    Blaze

    That's pretty off...

    Top
    Blaze

    Mid
    Axel
    Dr. Zan

    Bottom
    Skate

    I never bothered tiering bonus characters. I'm willing to listen to the reasons for your listing, though.

    EDIT: You were factoring in 6-button availability, right?
    KoF XIII // Kula/Iori/Mature | 3S // Dudley (SA I) | TvC // Saki/Tekkaman Blade | BB // Tsubaki, Noel, Valkenhayn | MvC3 // Dante/X-23/Amaterasu
  • shadowcharlieshadowcharlie ★ஜ۩dip۞set۩ஜ★ Joined: Posts: 9,170 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    mslano wrote:
    I must admit that I am not a fan of Cyan in general, so in not using him, I may have missed something. The only really strong point about him I have seen is the Psycho Cyan glitch. While that is really overpowered, it takes quite a few turns to set up properly with many conditions having to be met. In that time, most enemies can be damaged quite a bit with a party of four good characters, so I don't see how that might suddenly turn him into a god like character. Plus, he is completely dependant on two other characters in order to carry out the glitch, so it cannot really be attributed to him being a good character. Rather, it is possible to consider a party like that as top tier on a list of parties.
    if u look at it like a formula then i def see your point, i was refering to overall ability to excel
    bust my gun at the sun just to sit in the shade~
    ἐξίσταται γὰρ πάντ' ἀπ' ἀλλήλων δίχα
  • DaBossDaBoss Joined: Posts: 26
    mslano wrote:
    The tiers I posted were for a Natural Magic Game. That means, nobody can use magic (except for Terra, Celes and Gogo) because they do not learn magic naturally. Thus, Relm is pure shit. Her only good quality normally is having the highest magic power. This does not benefit her without any magic to use. I believe I mentioned all this in the original post.

    Obviously, I missed that part. My mistake ":^)"
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Advance Wars 2 (CO tier list)

    Not specific order in each tier class. Also, tiering may differ on specific type of maps, but overall, I'd say this is pretty accurate.

    -God tier
    Sturm
    Hachi
    Colin (DGR)
    Nell

    -Top tier
    Kanbei
    Lash
    Colin

    -Upper mid
    Grit
    Hawke

    -Mid tier
    Sami
    Andy
    Max
    Olaf
    Drake
    Jess
    Eagle
    Sensei

    -Low tier
    Adder
    Flak
    Sonja
  • DaBossDaBoss Joined: Posts: 26
    Anyone play any shmups seriously and wanna give some tiers for those games? How about Raiden Fighters Jet for starters? I'll experiment a bit and give my opinion of the tiers.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Tops (imho)

    Diablo 2x 1.10
    Dual Dream Sorc w/pure vita
    Bonemancer w/enigma+marrowalks
    Wind Druid w/enigma
    Charge+Hammer Pally

    MUonline
    Pure Vita BK w/max reflect equip.
    Wizard w/ energy shield maxed
    Agility Elf

    JediKnight2 Multy-player
    DarkSide w/Drain, grip+kick combo, and elec to finish.
  • StrikeStrike Joined: Posts: 78
    Star Ocean 3

    Top: Maria
    Second: Sophia, Cliff, Fayt
    Mid: Nel, Albel, Mirage
    Bottom: Peppita, Roger, Adray

    Sophia stunlocking is nice, but it's not damaging. Maria's Scatter Beam combos and then later Energy Burst combos propel her to the the most broken spot.

    Final Fantasy 6

    The problem with tiering this game is, it's hard to find a "standard." Do you go with "max level/max stats"? At that point, everyone is nearly the same. Do you go with low-level or natural-magic restrictions? You can, but who really plays that way. So the best way is to tier it under an ambiguous "normal" play conditions, whatever you think "normal" is. IMO, that means you can gain spells from Espers, but you don't purposely overlevel nor spend time getting every little secret there is. As such I'd tier FF6:

    Top: Terra, Celes, Edgar, Gau
    Second: Mog, Shadow, Gogo
    Mid: Sabin, Setzer, Locke, Relm
    Bottom: Strago, Cyan, Umaro
  • mslanomslano ODB Joined: Posts: 20
    Strike wrote:
    Final Fantasy 6

    The problem with tiering this game is, it's hard to find a "standard." Do you go with "max level/max stats"? At that point, everyone is nearly the same. Do you go with low-level or natural-magic restrictions? You can, but who really plays that way. So the best way is to tier it under an ambiguous "normal" play conditions, whatever you think "normal" is. IMO, that means you can gain spells from Espers, but you don't purposely overlevel nor spend time getting every little secret there is. As such I'd tier FF6:

    Top: Terra, Celes, Edgar, Gau
    Second: Mog, Shadow, Gogo
    Mid: Sabin, Setzer, Locke, Relm
    Bottom: Strago, Cyan, Umaro

    The reason I made NMG tiers is because that is the only way I like to play the game. The first time through, I used Espers and quickly realized that any character with a few key spells can be top tier. With Espers teaching spells and adjusting stats, tiers are not that important. It basically becomes:

    Top Tier:
    Anyone with Ultima, Quick, Life 3 and Osmose

    Low Tier:
    Anyone without all of those spells

    Bottom Tier:
    Umaro

    That's why I prefer to use NMG, leaving the characters as they start and without tampering with them. It is not a perfect system because some characters are clearly meant to use Espers (Relm), but it allows for individual strengths to shine through. Otherwise, the characters' skills are lost to generic magic use akin to FF7.

    In any case, I agree with your list for the most part. I would put Relm higher because she has the highest natural magic power, which would mean her spells only do less damage than Morphed Terra. I would also put Setzer at least ahead of Sabin and probably into Second tier because he is the best Offering user without unnatural vigor boosting and he can do really high damage with his slots (which are hard to time, but not impossible). Other than those two, I find no problems.
    Trying is the first step towards failure.
    -Homer Simpson

    Av by me.
  • js2756js2756 Joined: Posts: 169
    Might as well join it:

    Dynasty Warriors 3-5:
    Top Tier:
    Wu Dynasty- It seems people down out Wu for specific reasons but it has one positive: strength in numbers. In every battle I've played with or against the Wu, they always outnumber me. This is good for longevity battles. We're talkin bout fuckin 50 MINUTE FIGHTS!!! If you go ahead and kill the commander, it's still 20 minutes but if u like having the odds against you and enjoy 1000 K.O. fights, this is the Dynasty to roll with.
    Best Officers:
    Zhou Yu
    Sun Ce
    Zhou Tai
    Ling Tong(5)
    Gan Ning(if you cocky)

    Mid Tier(tie):
    Wei Dynasty- This is the mid level dynasty that has fewer officers but strength is upon them. The Wei could be known as the "powerhouse" dynasty due to strength outlook at the beginning of Musou Mode. Slow yet powerful, going against this dynasty could produce more challenge than Wu could dream of. If you like to go for a swift kill to the commander but don't like killing sprees, go against this dynasty. If you want power, USE this dynasty.
    Best Officers:
    Xaihou Dun
    Xaihou Yuan
    Cao Pi(5)
    Xu Huang
    Cao Ren

    Shu Dynasty- The underdogs. Much smaller than Wei or Wu with fewer officers, why should you use this dynasty? Musou Gauge. These officers pack MAJOR musou which means longer devestation to the battlefield. Going against this dynasty isnt much challenge and very few officers for any killing sprees that go past 600 K.O. Although thought to be weak, this dynasty can keep in the battle longer due to another commander in the mist.
    Best Officers:
    Ma Chao
    Pang Tong(for good musou)
    Jiang Wei
    Guan Ping(5)

    Low Tier:
    Other Kingdoms- The only thing that keeps this dynasty from sucking is Lu Bu. The others aren't worth your time.
    Best OFFICER:
    Lu Bu....nuff said....

    Uh, totally wrong. The best kingdom based on their officers is by far Shu, because they have a large number of spear users, and spears are the best weapons due to their crowd-controlling. The Shu spear users are also the fastest spear wielders in the game, and combined with the long range, makes them lethal. Shu also has one of the best sword users in Liu Bei, and in DW4, the best dueler in Zhuge Liang. Kingdom ranks go:

    Shu (due to spear users), Wu (most balanced kingdom), Wei (power, but slow as shit, making most of their officers suck), then other (only good officers are Zuo Ci (broken), Lu Bu (less broken) and Zhu Rong).

    The FF6 rankings that people are posting are also wrong. It is well-established that the best 4 characters are by far:
    Terra, Celes, Locke and Edgar

    Atma/Illumina Exclusivity makes them better than all other characters (Atma allows 39996 damage in one attack without stat boosts or using MP), plus their armor set is also better than almost anyone elses.

    FF6 rankings should go:
    1)Terra
    2)Locke
    3)Edgar
    4)Celes
    5)Cyan
    6)Sabin
    7)Shadow
    8)Gau
    9)Gogo
    10)Mog
    11)Strago
    12)Setzer
    13)Relm
    14)Umaro
  • StrikeStrike Joined: Posts: 78
    Atma Weapon is really not that great of a weapon. By the time you are dealing sizable damage with it, your characters are already too highly leveled. Similarly, Locke isn't that great of a character either. His magic stat is too low, he doesn't get nearly the good %MBlock equipment that Terra, Celes, and Edgar has; and stealing won't get you anything worthwhile.


    Cyan stinks. Other than the Psycho Cyan glitch (which as mentioned before, takes time to setup; time that could've been used just to kill the enemies outright), his SwdTech skill is probably tied with Relm's Sketch as worst skillset in the game. Why? Who would want to sit there and WAIT for that slowass bar to fill up, while your party is being smacked around when you could've just used the other 3 characters and finished the battle already? Not to mention his equips and magic stat aren't that hot either. Cyan deserves his bottom-tier status.

    Gau is good; really good actually. He's probably your best damage dealer in the WoB because many Rages are far more powerful than any magic spells available at the time. And Stray Cat + Merit Award + Tempest Katana = shear death.

    Mog and Shadow are good for pretty much the same reason. Dances and Throw are huge damage dealers for more than half the game (especially Dance). Shadow has basically 50% counter attack/evade with his dog. Both their magic stats are above average.

    And if you're judging on equips alone, Relm should be in the top. She can reach 128% MBlock without Merit Award (Magus Rod, Force Shield, Cat Hood, Tao Robe, White Cape x2), basically almost ensuring nothing hits her; and has the highest magic stat in the game. Without learning spells, yeah, she's crap; but learning them through Espers, she's much better than people give her credit for. Although I think the investment time put into her is why I dropped her to midtier, when she should probably be in 2nd.
  • js2756js2756 Joined: Posts: 169
    Atma Weapon is the only weapon that can do 9999 with the offering without having to raise specific stats. Illumina alone makes the top 4 the top 4, due to the massive amount of stat boosts you get, which can barely be matched by any full equipment set in the game.

    Locke is good because he starts with the highest natural speed, which is by far the most important stat in this game (and is also the hardest to build up). He also has access to unique equipment that is very powerful that the other big 4 can't use, like the Valiant Knife.

    Psycho Cyan is not hard to use, and can be pulled off in one round, two at most. For the most part, the heavy armor users have the best equipment which makes Cyan a lot better than most other characters. He is also one of the few characters that can do 9999x4 damage WITHOUT the offering or quick (although I never screwed around with imps).

    Dances are only ok in WoB (partially due to high failure rate on different terrain, plus randomness factor). Arguably, his best dance in WoB (Water Rondo) isn't all that great because there is almost always a chance for failure (how often are you fighting in water). Shadow is a lot better than Mog because Throw is a hell of a lot better (NOT random), plus he also gets the benefit of having a random shield in Interceptor. Mog's only redeeming factors are: natural Dragoon, snow muffler. His worth as a character drops a lot once you reach the WoR
  • TrueSephirothTrueSephiroth Joined: Posts: 1,395 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I agree that the Big 4 are the best, seriously, Offering + Genji Glove is ownage, period, enough said about that. Also, how can Locke not have high vigor, I've gotten to the world of Ruin on lvl 14, lvl 14, and yes, w/out using cheating devices, there is a way to beat all of them tough baddies if you get the right magic combinations. Because the best Espers as we know it, appear when the world of ruin has happened, seriously, don't lvl up your characters until after the world of ruin. Locke may seem like he sucks at the beginning but in the end, he's one of the best, again the Big 4 have an advantage imo because they can equip more special items then the rest.

    Seriously, if you lvl up Locke right, Offering + Genji Glove and He's a monster, period, infact, lvl up the Big 4, and offering/genjiglove combo is Top Tier, but Locke imo is the best, because he's the fastest in the end.
    "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." - Vince Lombardi

    Street Fighter II Hyper Fighting - Ryu
  • DaBossDaBoss Joined: Posts: 26
    Ok, I'm now attempting Raiden Fighters Jet tiers...

    God Tier:
    Slaves/Fairy - They have unbelievable damage potential, have the lowest hitboxes, and can also use Slaves themselves. That's just not right. When you use a Slave, the game becomes ridiculously easy (well, at least everything but the bosses) because you kill all the enemies on screen before they even release a bullet. Seriously, even the worst Slave is better than the best regular jet.

    Now, for the tiering of the jets. First of all, I'll list whether they're better with laser or missile, and then I'll go into a brief description of its tiering. Also, the planes in the tiers themselves have no ranking.

    Top Tier:
    Ixion: This plane's laser and missile attacks are both really good, but I would stick with the laser because it is a bit less random. Now, this thing is just superb in every category. First of all, it is the second fastest jet in the game, and it's laser attack is really, really strong. In fact, it is probably the third strongest attack in the game. It's laser charge is also really strong, and with the Ixion's high speed, you'll be able to clear the enemies with ease as you sweep from side to side. Oh, and its primary shot is a nice, damaging, focused spread shot. This jet is just amazing in every category.

    Miclus: This plane only has a primary shot. Why is this thing top tier? It only has a primary shot, and a bomb that doesn't even block enemy bullets? Well... first of all, its primary shot is VERY VERY strong. In fact, its by far the strongest primary shot in the game, putting the Miclus's total power up in the top five of all the jets. Next, its bomb, though not being able to block enemy bullets, is BY FAR the strongest bomb in the game. It just wrecks everything. And, now the most important aspect of the Miclus. It is TINY! It's hitbox is about the size of a Slave. This means if you know what you're doing, you'll almost never get it.

    Hell Diver: Best with Laser. This plane, like the Ixion, is just very, very balanced overall. It is also very fast (probably third fastest in the game) and also has great attacks. It's laser attack throws boomerangs that cover most of the screen, allowing you to hit most enemies. Now, the big part about this jet is its laser charge attack: It shoots those boomerangs out like mad. They do heavy damage, and basically cover the whole screen! Oh, and it charges very, very fast for something that powerful. That charge attack alone warrants its inclusion in the top tier, IMO.

    Judge Spear: This jet powers up its laser and missile attacks separately. This jet has nice attacks that do decent damage. Its bomb creates a chain napalm effect, where one explosion leads into more explosions with each explosion doing separate damage. Its primary shot is also pretty decent. So why's this seemingly average jet in the top tier? It's in here because it is BY FAR the fastest jet in the game, and its probably the fastest jet in any shmup game that has ever been made. This jet is SO fast that if you don't have very good control, accidentally running into enemy bullets will become your main form of death very soon. However, if you do control your plane well, it is very hard for the Judge Spear to get hit because its speed is just too great. However, this jet does have a drawback: it does not have an instant bomb. This means no panic bombing to save your ass if you're in trouble.

    Mid Tier:
    Chaser 2000: Laser is definitely better. This plane is really fast (probably tied with Hell Diver), has a great, unique homing laser, and has a very nice laser charge also. It's not in the top tier because it is a bit too weak, but its speed and crowd clearing definitely save it from being bottom tier.

    Beast Wing: Laser definitely. This thing is really, really slow, but its also really, really powerful. It can be the strongest jet in the game, almost being as strong as the untouchable Slaves. Its primary shot is also a natural spread shot, meaning the closer you are to an enemy, the more damage you do. Oh, and its ultra strong flamethrower is controllable, meaning you can wave it from left to right, allowing you to clear crowds easier.

    Aegis IV: Laser definitely. This jet is pretty average in everything. However, it stands out due to its laser homing shot. Its one of the more effective homing shots I've used in any shmup, and the charged up version is even better. Not only does no enemy survive, but those lasers are actually very strong. And again, because its average in everything, that also means its not bad in anything either: meaning it has good speed, evasion, and strength.

    Flying Ray: Both missile and laser are useful in their own ways. This jet has pretty good speed, and two unique weapons that can be taken advantage of. First of all, its laser as a regular attack is not too useful and very awkward to use. However, as a charge attack, it becomes one of the strongest charge attacks in the game, as long as all the lasers hit. Therefore, if you can time that well, most enemies go down real quick. It's missile attack is average, like the laser. But, again like the laser, the charged up version is a lot better. MANY, MANY cruise missiles get shot out, covering the entire screen. Now this is a screen clearer, if there ever was one. It's like the Hell Diver's laser charge, minus the damage. Oh, and the trails of smoke in the cruise missiles can hinder your vision a bit, but overall, its not too big a deal.

    Death Header: DEFINITELY missile. It's laser attack is just about useless. Fortunately, it has the best missile attack of any jet in the game. Not only is it strong, but it homes very, very well. Oh, and the charge attack is unbelievably strong for the speed at which it charges. Other than that its superb missile attack, this jet is fairly average.

    Griffin: Laser and missile can both work. Statswise, this jet is average, but it does have two very unique weapons. Its laser attack is the third best homing weapon in the game, shooting out little pods that track down and shoot down all enemies in its path. Its a bit weak, unfortunately, and it takes a while getting to everybody, but it still gets the job done nicely. It's laser charge is the exact same as the Ixion's, but for some reason, it's much, much weaker. I guess that just makes the Ixion that much more scarier. Its missile attack shoots out little mines whose explosions have the unique ability of absorbing enemy bullets. Needless to say, this can be very effective if you use it wisely. However, the rate of fire of those things is very slow, so one has to watch for that. And another problem, the Griffin is really slow, which is never good.

    Blue Javelin: This jet powers up laser and missile separately. It's very fast and has very nice weapons. They're all very bland and simple, though so there isn't much description needed. It shoots nice spread lasers as its primary weapon, and its missiles shoot out... regular missiles. It does good damage, though, so there's nothing to complain about. Oh, and did I mention this thing is pretty darn fast?

    Bottom Tier:
    Now, first of all, no jet in this game sucks. These just happen to be not as good. Proof? Many of highest top scores are acquired with the Raiden MK-II, which is in my bottom tier.

    Raiden mk-II: This jet powers up missile and laser separately. First of all, this jet has the coolest weapon of any shmup ever, IMO. It is the infamous purple laser from Raiden II, the snake like laser that you have complete control over. And its missile secondary is regular homing missiles. So, why is it bottom tier? First of all, it is VERY slow. And I mean probably the slowest jet of any game EVER. That slow. This actually isn't that big a problem with regular enemies because your laser of doom is attacking everything on screen at the same time, but it is a major problem for bosses. If you're not too skilled, and sometimes even if you are, your slow speed makes it very hard to dodge bosses' attacks. Oh, and that mega laser.... it's a bit on the weak side, which is only fair, since it is so good in every other category, but that puts this jet in the bottom tier.

    Raiden mk-II beta: This jet powers up laser and missile separately. This jet has decent speed, but its weaponry isn't the best. Its weapons are designed for coverage, meaning it sacrifices strength. However, its coverage isn't a homing weapon. Rather, it's a massive spread shot. It's missile is also a spread of small missiles. The problem with spread shots, is that unless you are very close to an enemy, allowing all hits to connect, they do very low damage, and in this game, you don't have that many opportunities to be that close to enemies.

    Eraser: Laser. This jet is very slow, but it might be the strongest in the game (it's either this or the Beast Wing). However, the Beast Wing's flamethrower is controllable, whereas the Eraser's super lasers are not and can only shoot straight. This makes clearing crowds a lot harder. Plus, it has no spread shot like the Beast Wing, so that's also a problem. But, its charge shot is cooler ":^)" It's one big super laser that crushes anything in its path!

    Well, that's it. Any people that agree, disagree?
  • StrikeStrike Joined: Posts: 78
    By the time Atma Weapon is striking for 9999 damage (meaning your HP and level are supremely high for that to happen); all your characters are ridiculously powerful already. No one is questioning that Illumina is the best sword; but since Terra, Edgar, and Celes offer a lot more than just being able to equip the Illumina; the "Big 4" (if there was one), definitely does not include Locke in it.

    Speed is overrated and far from the "most important stat in the game." At best, a fast character will get to act ahead of one of your other characters, and that doesn't account for much. It's being faster than the enemy that matters; and Locke's speed isn't so lightning fast that he will lap the enemies in turn. The way FF6's battle system is designed, speed is generally not an important factor. If I had to choose a "most important stat in the game," I'd vote for Magic Power above anything else.

    Valiant Knife is okay; but for it to get any real good use, Locke has to be:
    a) near death, or
    b) so ridiculously overleveled that a fully HP swing will still do high damage because of how the game factor's a character's level into dealing damage

    Psycho Cyan may not be tough to setup; but it still takes time to set up. You still have to:
    1. Wait for Cyan to charge up for 'Retort'
    2. Cast Imp on him
    3. Kill him
    4. Revive him
    After all this, Cyan will revive only to keep attacking until everything is dead. Okay, that's nice, but all this time you could've probably already finished the battle instead of setting this up. And furthermore, it is a glitch. It's like saying, anyone with "Vanish/Doom" is top tier. Besides all this, Cyan really is a bad character. How can Cyan do 9999x4 damage without either again, overleveling? And still, I'm assuming you mean through his QuadraSlice (Level 7 ignore-defense tech) move he accomplishes this (or again a ridiculously overleveled Level 4 QuadraSlam). You're still ignoring that all this time you're waiting for his bar to charge, the rest of your party probably could've cleaned up the battle altogether themselves. Not to mention you have no control over what exactly Cyan hits; he might be hitting the same enemy for overkill when he should be spreading out his hits.

    As for Cyan's armor, it's nothing special. Cyan can equip with Genji Armor; but then again, so can 6 other people. And actually, Genji Armor isn't really that special at all. Raw defense does not make up the best armor. Mog and Gau get Snow Mufflers; already a better equip than Cyan. Relm, Strago, and Gogo get Magus Rods and TaoRobes (+30% and +10% MagicBlock respectively). Relm gets CatHood (another +10% MagicBlock, plus a whole bunch of other stat boosts). Terra/Celes get Mystery Veil (+3 Magic and +10% MagicBlock) and Minerva (+25% MP; + various stats; +10% MagicBlock; various elemental defenses). Cyan's armor equips are definitely nothing stellar; arguably the worst in the game.

    Mog's worth of a character doesn't drop from WoB to WoR, it changes. His dances are overpowered in WoB, despite their somewhat noticeable failure rate, they are still more damaging than the spells fired off by Terra or Celes at the time. And, he joins at a good few levels above your party at the time with better equips too. Shadow was put too low on your list. With 99 Shurikens (which costs only around 3000), you have a Throw attack that is consistently stronger than any physical attack your party is capable of at that time. Setzer is also too low on your list. If there was ever a canidate for the Offering, it's Setzer with his Fixed Dice since that weapon isn't effected by Offering's attack penalty.

    Offering/Genji Glove is not that great of a combo. Sure, it's damage potential is probably the best on a Level 99 Locke with Atma Weapon/Valiant Knife doing 9999 x8 damage... but you're missing the point of leveling up that much breaks the game anyway. A tier list of level 99 characters wouldn't say anything really about the character. Locke sucks in the WoB and gets somewhat redeemable in WoR; but he's nowhere near as exploitable as other characters like Terra, Edgar, or Gau who are viable throughout the game... unless you overlevel the crap out of your party.
  • TrueSephirothTrueSephiroth Joined: Posts: 1,395 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    If we where not to conclude max lvl then that means many characters within an rpg would be rank severely differently. Ayla is not even that great until into the later parts of her game when she recieves Iron Fist, she's pretty good before hand, but not enough where I would take out Lucca for her.

    Even in FFX, if that was the case, Yuna isn't even that great until later into the game, where her more powerful summons come into place, other than the OD of the Summons, they do mediocre damage until you recieve Bahamut which is late into the game and the summons after him. Lulu would be extremely good because she will deal good damage portionally throughout the entire game, and pyshically Auron would rock. However we all know that in the end, the listing is very differently when maxed because Wakka has the potential to deal the most 99999 when compared to everyone else.

    I will admit, Locke sucks at the WoB, but after, if you don't lvl up any of the characters until the WoR, that's when you notice the potential of many of them. Locke in the end, is one of the best, because I feel you underestimate speed, because he's almost usually the first character to strike, and when maxed, yes, everyone will do ridiculous damage, but it will come down to who will do the most in a succession and the fastest. Magic is great, however later on, it's nothing compared to the genjiglove/offering combo. The most you can do with Ultima is twice with the option of gem box, however, why do that, when there's another combination that's even far better and can kill them even far faster, many monsters would require more than 2 Ultima attacks to kill. Not to mention the offering/genji glove combo will wipe out any boss period, even Kefka who has 64k will die from from the 8x 9999 damage.

    In the end, it comes down to speed, and how much damage you can deal within the time frame that will start to seperate the characters, if we where to say throughout the game, then Locke isn't that good, however that would show the same for many rpg's, but I'm saying if you where to pump to lvl 99 and with the right stats build, also, magic damage isn't all that, because with the other magic combination it's even more powerful against bosses or singled enemies then what Ultima could ever bring and plus you can do this before ever getting Ultima.
    "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." - Vince Lombardi

    Street Fighter II Hyper Fighting - Ryu
  • js2756js2756 Joined: Posts: 169
    Morphed Terra is stronger than Mog in WoB. Sure, Relm has a good equipment set, but how is she going to damage the enemy? She isn't even the best magic user due to the fact that Terra can effectively double her magic power by morphing.

    All Mog can do to damage are random dances and the ability to use the Dragoon Boots + Dragon Horn combo. Dances in WoR do not cut it. Why bother with them when so many other characters have guaranteed damage? Mog's worth in WoR is as a Dragoon, not a Dancer.

    Of the Big 4, Celes is arguably the worst. Her natural magic set is worse than Terra's, she is weaker than Terra (due to morph), and she has by far the worst unique ability of the 4. Her only redeeming factor is her equipment set, but I view Locke's speed and Edgar's tools as better.

    You shouldn't tout Relm's Mag. Block, considering that Locke gets 120% with 3 items only: Illumina, Force Armor, and Force Shield. Give him a White Cape and the Offering, and he now has max mag. block and can do good damage by attacking.

    Shadow is low due to how good the top 4 are. Arguably, he is better than Sabin, but at best that puts him at 6th. I don't think he sucks, but he isn't as good as those above him.
  • boxbox Joined: Posts: 1,611
    Anyone wanna do the FFX-2 dressphere tiers??? Mascot and trainer as well as the special ones are different for each character so I'll leave those alone.

    God: Gunner

    Top: Darknight, Alchemist, Berserker

    Upper Mid: Gun Mage, Samurai, Warrior

    Low Mid: Thief, White Mage, Lady Luck

    Low: Black mage, Songstress
  • Aoishi2ALAoishi2AL Joined: Posts: 280
    The most important stats in FF6 are in order Mblock (the best :clap: ), Magic Power, Speed, Vigor, and Stamina. Evade :tdown: is made useless due to Mblock.

    Speed is a wildcard of a status. It isn't the best, but it can be made redundant by the use of Gembox and Quick, unlimited turns, yay.

    Mblock is basically how characters can evade magic attacks and physically based attacks, if anyone analyzes the algorithms of the game then you'll see what I'm talking about. Basically a character that has good Mblock can withstand almost all magical attacks, and physical attacks that have status induced ailments. So all the people that discard the Force Armors for the Genji Equipment are in for a treat.

    In FF6 most characters attack with magic based attacks and characters like Sabin, specifically, depend on magic. For most of Sabin's blitz's especially the Bum Rush, his best one, depend on his magic power and not his vigor. Only the Pummel, the useless Suplex, and one other blitz depend on his physical attack.

    It's ridiculous that Gogo makes it in the top tier of some people's lists with his awfully low Vigor, Magic, and other stats.

    As stated previously most characters can do 9999 damage with the Genji and Offering. However, the tiers are based on the weapons that the characters can use (merit award is bullshit :tdown: seeing that it takes a spot on the relic equipment that can be used for Marvel Shoes which inflict all positive magical effects such as protect, shell, haste, on a character:karate: or Ribbon etc...) and their stats. Speed is good for a magical party, because two spells are quicker than 8 attacks in a row. If one character has the Genji combo then speed is redundant due to the 8 successive attacks, which by the time they are done fill the ATB gauges of all the enemies and characters in battle. Psycho Cyan is also bullshit, because it should be counted as a cracked out imp glitch instead of Cyan. The general consensus is:

    Top tier:
    Terra (Morph doubles her attack power, magic power, etc... making her as good as two characters combined)

    The rest of the top tier:
    Celes
    Locke (Speed)
    Shadow (M block second highest, throwing penetrates defenses and he has Interceptor)
    Gau (Snow Muffler = Mblock)

    High Mid tier:
    Edgar
    Relm
    Setzer (Fixed Dice and Dice x Genji x Offering = more damage than what Sabin can do with Bum Rush)

    Low Mid tier:
    Sabin
    Cyan
    Mog

    Low tier:
    Umaro

    ?tier:
    Gogo good/bad. A little bit of everything depending on ability set-up, but his stats suck.

    Evaluating characters in single player games without the use of espers deviates from the whole leveling up system of the game.

    the Crono Trigger stats should go like this.

    To measure them in battle would have to be done against Lavos and Nu Spekkio. Healing isn't that much of a factor, if it was then Marle would be the best there is. Every character has the option of using one of those 99 possible elixirs from New Game+'s. Basically the best would be these 3 due to the high magic damage, physical damage, in their placements.

    Top tier:
    Crono=Luminaire=ownage

    Ayla is good at the end really top, but still not as good as Crono. Best Physical attack hands down.

    Magus has great magic. He can Dark Matter everything. Raven Armor better than every other armor.

    Mid Tier:
    Robo
    Frog
    Lucca

    Low tier:
    Marle

    Knights of the Round:
    From best to worst
    Lancelot
    Arthur
    Percival

    Xenogears:
    Fei is top, I forgot though.
  • Aoishi2ALAoishi2AL Joined: Posts: 280


    I will admit, Locke sucks at the WoB, but after, if you don't lvl up any of the characters until the WoR, that's when you notice the potential of many of them. Locke in the end, is one of the best, because I feel you underestimate speed, because he's almost usually the first character to strike, and when maxed, yes, everyone will do ridiculous damage, but it will come down to who will do the most in a succession and the fastest. Magic is great, however later on, it's nothing compared to the genjiglove/offering combo. The most you can do with Ultima is twice with the option of gem box, however, why do that, when there's another combination that's even far better and can kill them even far faster, many monsters would require more than 2 Ultima attacks to kill. Not to mention the offering/genji glove combo will wipe out any boss period, even Kefka who has 64k will die from from the 8x 9999 damage.

    Locke doesn't suck that much in WoB, he gets Thief Knife which also increases his speed, Air Lancets and other goodies combined with at least a Hyper Wrist, Atlas Armlet, or Genji Glove which make him pretty dangerous. No one can actually exploit these relics as much as him, because he is the character that uses The Fight command more than anyone else in the game. Edgar has tools, Terra has Magic, etc, etc...but When he gets Full Moons' and Hawkeyes' he deals up to 2,000 damage onto a single enemy.

    What really sucks about Locke is that in the WOB he doesn't get to multi-target enemies, but that is kinda whack considering single-targetting is the most effective way of eradicating a boss.

    Another thing about Locke is that he gets to use Wing Edge's which raise almost every fucking stat he has and not by 1+ point, but by 7+.

    Anyways Castlevania Symphony of the Night

    Shield Rod and Alucard Shield equals total ownage. Drains energy, you become partially invulnerable, kills everything, the combination of the gods.
  • bbq saucebbq sauce Joined: Posts: 754
    Somebody with real knowledge of Final Fantasy Tactics (unlike me) should tier that game...

    I haven't played that game in years, and there's a lotta different combos you can make... Probably have to tier main characters (Ramza, Orlandu, the chick with the 'break' skills) and the generic jobs seperate.

    I'd assume out of the main characters, Orlandu is tops? Since he's got all the sword skills of the other characters, but even stronger..

    For jobs, I have no idea.... maybe Lancers for their reach and mobility, plus high attack, and their ability wear heavy armor..? Also, if say an enmey starts a summon, you can jump the turn prior to the summon and avoid any damage IIRC.
    See, the problem is that you guys play Street Fighter solely for tournaments and competition with other players, but that is only one small aspect of fighting games.
    ~Playcircus
  • StrikeStrike Joined: Posts: 78
    The point of not ranking specifically FF6 at max levels (or over-leveled characters) is because all characters at that point become so ridiculously overpowered that it doesn't matter anymore. A Level 99 Relm will strike for 9999 damage; Morph will effectively do nothing as Terra's damage will already cap at 9999 per hit. That's why ranking FF6 when your characters are so overpowered that' Kefka dies in one strike of 9999 x8' would be silly at that point.

    Again, the only way Genji Glove/Offering combo > Ultima x2 with Gem Box is if your characters are really overleveled. If you're thinking that Genji Glove/Offering = 9999 x4; re-evaluate what levels your characters are when that is happening.

    Speed is an overrated stat, especially concerning Locke. Unless you raise it up in a huge bulk (with Odin), Locke's high speed just means he probably gets his turn first or lap one of your own really slow characters a turn. He'll never be blazing fast enough where he will be attacking twice for another character's one turn (again, unless you stat boost like crazy with Odin). And again, the way FF6's ATB battle system takes into account attack animation; as long as your bar is filled you get a turn. Locke's high speed just gets him his turn first.

    I never said anything about Morphed Terra being bad; and I don't know what you're trying to say to compare Morphed Terra (best mage) with Relm. Relm does have the highest magic stat in the game, but of course Terra's Morph ability doubles her power (but for a fixed amount of time). Does that mean Relm's magic casting abilities all of a sudden suck because Morphed Terra exists? That's silly. Unless you're going around purposely taking time to raise your levels and thus accumulate a large supply of Magic Points; Morph will not be viable in the long run because Terra's charge will run out. You've neglected the strength of Mog's Dances in WoB and Relm's extemely good role as a mage solely because of Terra's Morphing ability, without considering that Morph will not be that commonly used in the many random battles your party will have to fight through.

    And I never claimed that Dances were useful in WoR. They're not. By the time you hit WoR, yes, Mog switches from being a mage Danger into a physical attacking Dragoon. But WoR Mog with Snow Muffler, is just a plain bitch to kill due to his ridiculously high DEF, add in Dragoon Boots/Dragoon Horn/Aura Lance combo; and Mog is not bad at all. In the WoB however, Mog's Dances are really more impressive than you give him credit for.

    I didn't "tout" Relm's MBlock equips over Locke. It was more like I was pointing out that she has really good equips that you seemingly ignored. About Locke's Illumina/Force Shield/Force Armor combo. Yes, Locke is one of the 4 who can equip the Illumina, but consider the other 3 (Terra, Celes, Edgar) are generally considered more and effective for reasons other than just solely being able to equip with the Illumina/Force Shield/Force Armor combo; and you can see why that point isn't really that impressive for Locke.

    Celes is a weaker Terra, but is that a bad thing? Compare her to the rest of the cast, and you still have a character who has better equips, a better magic stat, and a better MBlock stat than more than half the cast. Why would her natural spell list matter unless you're playing a Natural Magic only game? Most people wouldn't consider that kind of playing style standard, so I assumed a good FF6 tier list wouldn't be based on that.

    You said Shadow is arguably better than Sabin (which I don't think it's very "arguable," as it's generally out and out true: Shadow has better equips, better stats, 50% Physical Evade/Counter attack with Interceptor, Throw damage potential... all this over Sabin); yet you placed Sabin over him (and CYAN over both of them). Cyan definitely deserves his bottom tier status for having a very wasteful and ineffective skillset, low magic power, and generic equips.

    When "most characters [are] doing 9999 damage with Genji Glove/Offering," that's because these characters are overleveled. If you choose to tier FF6 with everyone at Level 99, then the tier list wouldn't really say much about the character's potential, but rather it'd just be about a who-can-equip-what list.
  • DaBossDaBoss Joined: Posts: 26
    I guess I can rank FFT since that's the game I'm probably most knowledgeable on. And yes, out of the special characters, Orlandu is definitely tops.
  • TrueSephirothTrueSephiroth Joined: Posts: 1,395 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I would contradict everything by maxing lvls, why wouldn't it be so. Also, why "can't" equips come into play, because they are also a part of what makes a character good, to say that maxing the characters lvl's to find out who is the best being "mute" is pretty bogus. Also, in FF games I've noticed from FFVI, that the character's potential will usually mean jack in the end, isn't this also a trend that is shown in fighting games as well? Most abusable? Fastest? Deals the most damage in a short window frame?

    The same can also be said about rpg's as well, Cloud is obviously Top Tier because he can unleash OmniSlash, which can deal even more damage than Knights of Round Table when focused upon a single enemy, plus he's naturally quick. Wakka is Top Tier because in the end Attack Reels has the potential to deal the most damage in a single session. Ayla is one of the best, because she has the ability to reach 9999 and she can't even do that until she's like what...lvl 97 which gives her Iron Fist. Many characters don't show their true potential until fully lvled, thus the reason why I would rank them upon lvl as well.

    Locke is still for me, one of the best, because in the end, being capable of usually being the first character to strike, he comboed with genjiglove/offering will make him extremely powerful. I feel it's pratically no different from comparing characters in a rpg to a fighting game, the most abusable and most exploitable tatic will always make certain characters rise above the rest.

    Btw, against singled enemies or boss characters, Ultima is NOT the way, if you want it to be easier, I'll give a secret, maybe some of you may already know, but for those who dont. Easiest way to kill single enemy bosses is by using Vanish on them, and then X-Zone...the Ultimate Killer for it kills them instantly w/out having to resort to damaging them, that's the reason why I found magic to be pretty useless because this tatic made me skim through WoB and WoR with ease.
    "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." - Vince Lombardi

    Street Fighter II Hyper Fighting - Ryu
  • OuroborusOuroborus plays 3s just to troll Joined: Posts: 7,248 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    box wrote:
    Anyone wanna do the FFX-2 dressphere tiers??? Mascot and trainer as well as the special ones are different for each character so I'll leave those alone.

    God: Gunner

    Top: Darknight, Alchemist, Berserker

    Upper Mid: Gun Mage, Samurai, Warrior

    Low Mid: Thief, White Mage, Lady Luck

    Low: Black mage, Songstress


    actually its more like

    top:
    Lady Luck - double items, double exp, double $$, bribe and theres a way to get the slots to whatever you want makes this the most broken dressphere ever. mighty guard +, auto life, ultima, flare, megalixer+, and CONGRATS broke the game.

    Mascot - high defense and high offense and high support

    Gunner - catnip + lv3 trigger happy kills anything in its path.

    Gun Mage - annihilator blue bullet + invincible does crazy damage. not as much as catnip + lv3 trigger, but this is a more versatile dressphere.

    2nd tier:

    Theif - First Strike, Flee, Initiative helps a lot in the 100 floor dungeon. and since its attack hits twice, it compliments well with the catnip

    Dark Knight - good defense, good damage but anything it can do, the other dresspheres can do better

    Alchemist - good for recovery but lady luck can do that better

    Samurai - fairly fast and powerful. you can reach max damage with momentum skill but it takes forever

    3rd tier:
    anything i didnt list

    Bottom:
    black mage - no flare, no ultima = no use
    songstress - useless for 98% of the game

    FF10 tiers:

    top:
    Wakka - Attack reels, can fight under water, only character with a long range weapon
    Yuna - Magus sister Mindy rushes that shit down with Passado, great celestial weapon
    Tidus - the only other character with a good overdrive and he can fight underwater

    mid:
    Rikku - just because she can fight underwater and her attack is quick
    Lulu - her overdrive is not too great and it takes her the longest to attack when spamming on quick hit but her celestial weapon is a lot like yunas.
    Auron - masamune with max hp doesnt do full damage really sucks

    low:
    the blue ape - just boring, even his celestial weapon is boring
    ssf4ae tier list regarding Gen:

    D Proto: and where is Gen?
    oORYUOo: you cannot tier what you cannot see
  • StrikeStrike Joined: Posts: 78
    I don't think tiering fighting games is the same as tiering an RPG. They share some aspects, but fighting games also have a bunch of things that simply don't translate well when applied to an RPG. What standards do you judge FF6 by?

    If you think leveling all 14 characters up to Level 99 and then comparing their damage potential in battle, well then that's your choice. Personally, I do think an FF6 tier based on maxing out your character's levels and stats is essentially moot. At that point, all your characters are doing 9999 per hit and essentially all of them are pretty much untouchable. Is anything really standing in your way then? I don't think so; and I don't think you can really judge how good a character is in FF6 if you decide to break the game and max everyone out.

    I didn't say equipment doesn't matter; but it's not all that matters. Locke's ability to equip the Illumina is indeed a plus on his side, but when characters like Terra (Morph, superior magic, superior other equips); Edgar (owning the WoB with Tools, superior other equips); Gau (Rages completely dominate WoB and are still overpowering in WoR)... equipment isn't everything.

    Again, with Locke, I'll agree that if you level him up to 99, give him the Atma Weapon, Valiant Knife, Offering, and Genji Glove, he is capable of the most damage at 9999 x8. But you're missing the very obvious point that it's not Locke that makes that combo good... it's the Level 99 part. At that point, the game is a joke and all the characters are basically god-like compared to the enemies. If you want to find the differences in these god-like characters in order to tier them, then go ahead, but ultimately that tier list doesn't mean much in general at that point.

    The same thing with Vanish/Doom; Vanish/X-Zone. That strategy speaks nothing of the character who uses it, and therefore most people ignore it when making a tier list (similar reasoning why people would probably ignore applying Esper stat-raising or Merit Award setups).
  • boxbox Joined: Posts: 1,611
    Thanks Ouro. I didn't realize Lady Luck was that powerful. How could you get the slots to do anything you want? I basically just stuck with Gunner + catnip and didn't really explore anything else. Is Samurai really that good? I always believed BErserker was better. Samurai didn't seem to get the damage in fast enough I found.
  • PsiPhiPsiPhi Joined: Posts: 824
    Magnifico wrote:
    ACK!! NO WAY!!! Cool to see a Metal Warriors fan, but you're soooo mistaken bro. Spider and Ballistic are the BEST, not worst =P.

    Top: Spider and Ballistic. Spider's infinite rocks. Ballistic totally shuts down Havoc, Drache, and Nitro. That's half the cast right there. I mean it. You have .000001% chance of beating my Ballistic with Havoc or Nitro, no matter WHO you are! Ballistic can have some SERIOUS problems with Prometheus tho on some levels, but since Prometheus gets slaughtered by most its not really a big deal... as an added bonus, these guys are the hardest to finish off when theyre in "critical" mode. This is what really pushes them over the edge.

    then Drache, he's failry good against most but USELESS against Ballistic. Most of his stock comes from the fact that he's pretty good against Spider.

    Havoc, Nitro. These guys lack the "one mistake and yuore dead" factor that Spider, Drache, and Prometheus have. And dont have the sheer power of Ballistic. So they clearly have to work harder

    Prometheus. He just gets abused by everyone. He basically NEEDS a anti gravity or speed burst to have any chance of winning, cause hes got NO MOBILITY!!! There are some levels where he can be extremely deadly though. On those levels it's justifid to bump him up with Havoc, Nitro, but no higher!

    The only matches that are really grossly imbalanced are Ballistic's (in his favor), the rest are very winnable but it takes a lot of work and careful play.

    Just friendly discussion. If you disagree feel free to retort, and I can go into better detail

    Reasons for my tierings:

    1) Drache - Top because of his speed and his drop attack. He can play run away with his ability to fire one way and move the other, or he can play aggressively and go for his drop attack (which will kill any other mech in one hit). Also, by tapping block you can clear bridges, thus slowing down all of the other mechs.

    2) Prometheus - High because of his strength at long and short range. Prometheus is the only mech that has bullets which travel all of the way across the screen, this means that all other mechs will probably take a few hits before they get close. Also his long range shots do the damage of 8 regular shots. His melee weapon will kill any mech if they are caught in it for more than a second which eliminates hth as an effective way of defeting him. His floating mines do enough damage to prevent enemys from trying to drop from above (except for Drache who can survive enough mines to destroy Prometheus unless Drache is dropping in a very high chasm). The best way to fight him is at midrange, where all other mechs will still take a lot of hits (and a whole lot of hits if Prometheus has seekers or bouncy bullets). His only real weakness is that he has to take elevators which leave him very vunerable. But you can win most matches on the bottom of the stage (since his slugs travel all of the way across the stage, then go eight ways when they explode). Also fighting Drache is a problem since Prometheus is so slow, hiding in a narrow corridor is the best way to fight him, and this isn't even all that effective since Drache can move quickly and strafe Prometheus.

    3) Nitro - Mid-High because of his versitility. He is quick, he can fly and his melee weapon has good range and damage. Because of his ability to fly he can rush the enemy mech down and melee them to death, this is especially effective when combined with a grenade launcher. He can also use his X button shield to mount a safe mid rang attack or he can use it to do damage to an enemy which is chasing him. The only mechs he really has a problem with are Prometheus because his fire kills Nitro quick, and Drache because his drop is always a risk.

    4) Havoc - Mid. Havoc's melee weapon is ok, better range than Nitro's but less damage. His bullets are stronger than the other mech's (and they look cooler too). He can't fly which doesn't enable him to chase other mechs. But his X button dash lets him move very fast and jump really far. Also when using his dash bullets he fires during it will queue up in front of him, this enables him to make a great hit and run mech.

    5) Spider - Mid-Low because he is too fragile. Spider is very fast, very manuverable, has great damage potential, his block makes him invisible, but his is just too fragile to be ranked higher. A direct attack against anything (except Ballistic) will get you killed. His best tactic is the super deadly web trap (I assume this is what you mean by infinite). The real problem with this is that it is only a true infinite versus Ballistic (in ball form) and Prometheus (in the air). The other mechs can either shoot their way out in the air, or melee out on the ground. Granted it does massive damage, but if the other player escapes spider is dead.

    6) Ballistic - Low because he can't move and shoot. His melee weapon is his only means of doing damage on the move, but it is so weak that it is better used as a means of moving around. The only time it is really effective is in narrow corridors and even then the other mech's melee weapon will probably kill Ballistic first. Charging his X button attack for a big shot then tapping it for a bunch of medium sized shots is his best tactic. However, this takes so long to charge that the other player has plenty of time to move in and melee you, unless they are Prometheus (but Prometheus wins if a fire fight so that really doesn't matter). Also, hit and run tactics don't work since it takes Ballistic so long to "unpack" before he can shoot.

    Feel free to argue with me, but it is going to take a lot of convincing for me to believe that Ballistic is top.
  • TrueSephirothTrueSephiroth Joined: Posts: 1,395 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Strike wrote:
    I don't think tiering fighting games is the same as tiering an RPG. They share some aspects, but fighting games also have a bunch of things that simply don't translate well when applied to an RPG. What standards do you judge FF6 by?

    If you think leveling all 14 characters up to Level 99 and then comparing their damage potential in battle, well then that's your choice. Personally, I do think an FF6 tier based on maxing out your character's levels and stats is essentially moot. At that point, all your characters are doing 9999 per hit and essentially all of them are pretty much untouchable. Is anything really standing in your way then? I don't think so; and I don't think you can really judge how good a character is in FF6 if you decide to break the game and max everyone out.

    I didn't say equipment doesn't matter; but it's not all that matters. Locke's ability to equip the Illumina is indeed a plus on his side, but when characters like Terra (Morph, superior magic, superior other equips); Edgar (owning the WoB with Tools, superior other equips); Gau (Rages completely dominate WoB and are still overpowering in WoR)... equipment isn't everything.

    Again, with Locke, I'll agree that if you level him up to 99, give him the Atma Weapon, Valiant Knife, Offering, and Genji Glove, he is capable of the most damage at 9999 x8. But you're missing the very obvious point that it's not Locke that makes that combo good... it's the Level 99 part. At that point, the game is a joke and all the characters are basically god-like compared to the enemies. If you want to find the differences in these god-like characters in order to tier them, then go ahead, but ultimately that tier list doesn't mean much in general at that point.

    The same thing with Vanish/Doom; Vanish/X-Zone. That strategy speaks nothing of the character who uses it, and therefore most people ignore it when making a tier list (similar reasoning why people would probably ignore applying Esper stat-raising or Merit Award setups).

    If we where to judge it by your standards then Ayla is garbage as I've stated. She is NOT Top Tier then, because it would be Chrono/Robo/lucca, with Ayla in middle tier, because her potential is not realized until she's in the later part of the game where she can deal 9999, that is one of the reasons why she's considered Top Tier...which is pratically maxed lvl. Because in the earlier parts of the game.

    I would even go as far as say that Magus is better than her, because Dark Matter has more damage potential then what she can deal in the earlier to mid lvls even almost until the end, it is the near the end of lvling up with Ayla that she truly shines, if we follow your theory, then Ayla isn't so good at all, charm would be one of her only real reasons to use her and her overall speed other than that, Lucca or Magus is a better character at the beginning then her because of their superior magic properties. My comparison of the fighting game status to an rpg has the same universal idea...abusable/fast/powerful. Don't the Top Tier's in fighting games share similar qualities as well as Rpg's to a certain extent?...isn't Chrono one of the fastest characters in the game, can deal exeptionally good pyshical damage, and has very powerful single special attacks and his skills only continue to grow all the way through to lvl **, I do believe so. Yes, they are two completely different games, they may not share 100% similarities but they share the same abusable/fast/high damage ideal purpose for stating a tier listing.

    As I've stated before, if maxing the lvls is NOT a considerment for tiering a list than that's pretty lame indeed. Maxed Lvl is Part of the game, and should be taken into affect, to say that it isn't is rather absurd, if you remember correctly, I ranked Locke as Top Dog because of his natural speed in the end, that coupled with the combo makes him one of the best, if not the best because he will always attack first...it is because he is naturally so fast and equipped with this combo that will make him better than the rest...thus the reason why I felt that speed was underrated when it shouldn't be at all. Try equipping the combo to Edgar, although he can deal the 8x 9999 damage, Locke will almost always attack before him, meaning that if Locke had the combo, he would be a far better character than having Edgar use the combo. The Big 4 are definetly above the rest, because they can equip things that the rest can't, which for me does indeed seperate them from the rest.

    "Specifics" of a character starts to mean jack towards the end of the lvls in FFVI, you are right, everyone will do ridiculous damage, however it's who does it the most and the fastest, and why shouldn't it be considered, it is indeed the character showing their "full" potential, that's the very reason why character specifics go out the window for FFVI imo.

    I stated the vanish/x-zone tatic is because it makes Magic pretty pathetic, another reason why Magic Power isn't a "huge" thing and should not be considered a huge factor for ranking a character, unless your attacking multiple enemies, however, against bosses, with the majority of them being solitary, the vanish/x-zone tatic will wipe them out far faster than using Ultima. If I can skim through the WoB with using this tatic and I got to the WoR with the vanish/x-zone tatic on lvl 14, it goes to show it's superiority over Magic Attacking because there is no way I can get to the WoR on lvl 14 by using magic attacks or pyshical damage, I feel that magic power shouldn't be considered so highly within this game when you have a powerful tool such as vanish/x-zone, in which everyone can use and exploit, and can be a far more effective tool, especially up against bosses.
    "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." - Vince Lombardi

    Street Fighter II Hyper Fighting - Ryu
  • RenegadeRenegade Joined: Posts: 3,128 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    bbq sauce wrote:
    Somebody with real knowledge of Final Fantasy Tactics (unlike me) should tier that game...

    I haven't played that game in years, and there's a lotta different combos you can make... Probably have to tier main characters (Ramza, Orlandu, the chick with the 'break' skills) and the generic jobs seperate.

    I'd assume out of the main characters, Orlandu is tops? Since he's got all the sword skills of the other characters, but even stronger..

    For jobs, I have no idea.... maybe Lancers for their reach and mobility, plus high attack, and their ability wear heavy armor..? Also, if say an enmey starts a summon, you can jump the turn prior to the summon and avoid any damage IIRC.


    Basic Character Classes/Skill Sets

    Best Skill Sets=
    God Tier= Math Skill
    Top Tier= Martial Arts, Draw Out
    Mid Tier= Throw, Geomancy, Battle Skill, Item, Steal, Jump,
    Low Tier= Black Magic, Summon, White Magic,
    Really Low Tier= Time Magic, Yin Yang Magic, Talk Skill, Dance, Basic Skill, Sing,
    Worthless=Charge

    Quick Explanation=
    Math skill is god. Instant, Full Screen, No MP Spells with a selection of 90% of the spells in the game.

    Martial Arts and Draw Out are great for their versatility, Healing, Support, Attack.
    Battle Skill is great w/ Two Swords to lower stats, thus cripping opponents (to perhaps steal). Item is instant healing/revive/cure status. Steal is essential to get good items. Jump takes too long at first and can't easy AT plan (have to do calculations). But with high speed/ Jav2, it's good.
    Throw and Geomancy are ok. Nothing special. Throw is nice with top tier swords... but that's alotta work (or alotta dupe) to get them.
    Magic Skill Sets are crap. Take too damn long. And without proper AT planning, you can really screw up. Only useful spells: BM= Flare WM=Holy and area affect cures. Summons take too long, and are weak, but Golem is hella good.

    Time/Yin Yang/Talk are all craptastic. Dance is worthless, no damage.

    Charge is the worst skill set ever. IT's the skillset that makes archers the worst class in the game by far. Anything over charge 4 you're not going to hit on anyone, and it doesn't do that much more damage.


    Best Special Characters

    God Tier= 1.Reis 2.Orlandu

    Orlandu because he's orlandu and can Night sword all day. Reis because she has two swords and train built in, gets huge stat bonuses, and can use Ribbon/Chantage to make her indestructible. Just put Martial Arts as her secondary skill. Watch the pain.

    Top Tier=Beowulf/Ramza

    Beowulf because Chicken, Shock, and Break are awesome and instant. Ramza's Scream, Yell, And Ultima are pretty good, but his equipment selection is what makes him awesome. He can wear knight swords and stat boosting robes and clothes naturally, the only character who can do so. His magic stat is great in this class, making him a no brainer choice to have math skill.


    Mid Tier= Agrias, Mustadio
    Both of these characters will do a TON of gruntwork in Chapters 2 and 3... but fall off in chapter 4. Agrias is Orlandu Lite (but can use ribbon/chantage). And Mustadio's Snipe skills work WAY more than they should at 8 squares away.

    Low Tier= Meliadoul, Worker 8, Cloud

    Meliadoul's Skills only work on humans, but on those, they're great. You may want to steal instead of break though. Worker 8 is immune to magic, but hurts himself when he attacks. Good range and power though. Cloud pretty much sucks except for Finishing Touch, which is an auto kill on any enemy. Materia Blade is a crappy weapon too.

    Worthless Tier= Rafa, Malak

    So seriously beyond shitty. Random area effect Low Damage skills? You have to be joking. Only good thing about them is Rafa is good at item finding.
    http://rvatournaments.com/

    Your one stop shop for RVA, Virginia, and East Coast Fighting game news and tournament updates.

    Your signature has been modifed, please read the rules.
  • StrikeStrike Joined: Posts: 78
    If we where to judge it by your standards then Ayla is garbage as I've stated. She is NOT Top Tier then, because it would be Chrono/Robo/lucca, with Ayla in middle tier, because her potential is not realized until she's in the later part of the game where she can deal 9999, that is one of the reasons why she's considered Top Tier...which is pratically maxed lvl. Because in the earlier parts of the game.

    I would even go as far as say that Magus is better than her, because Dark Matter has more damage potential then what she can deal in the earlier to mid lvls even almost until the end, it is the near the end of lvling up with Ayla that she truly shines, if we follow your theory, then Ayla isn't so good at all, charm would be one of her only real reasons to use her and her overall speed other than that, Lucca or Magus is a better character at the beginning then her because of their superior magic properties. My comparison of the fighting game status to an rpg has the same universal idea...abusable/fast/powerful. Don't the Top Tier's in fighting games share similar qualities as well as Rpg's to a certain extent?...isn't Chrono one of the fastest characters in the game, can deal exeptionally good pyshical damage, and has very powerful single special attacks and his skills only continue to grow all the way through to lvl **, I do believe so. Yes, they are two completely different games, they may not share 100% similarities but they share the same abusable/fast/high damage ideal purpose for stating a tier listing.

    As I've stated before, if maxing the lvls is NOT a considerment for tiering a list than that's pretty lame indeed. Maxed Lvl is Part of the game, and should be taken into affect, to say that it isn't is rather absurd, if you remember correctly, I ranked Locke as Top Dog because of his natural speed in the end, that coupled with the combo makes him one of the best, if not the best because he will always attack first...it is because he is naturally so fast and equipped with this combo that will make him better than the rest...thus the reason why I felt that speed was underrated when it shouldn't be at all. Try equipping the combo to Edgar, although he can deal the 8x 9999 damage, Locke will almost always attack before him, meaning that if Locke had the combo, he would be a far better character than having Edgar use the combo. The Big 4 are definetly above the rest, because they can equip things that the rest can't, which for me does indeed seperate them from the rest.

    "Specifics" of a character starts to mean jack towards the end of the lvls in FFVI, you are right, everyone will do ridiculous damage, however it's who does it the most and the fastest, and why shouldn't it be considered, it is indeed the character showing their "full" potential, that's the very reason why character specifics go out the window for FFVI imo.

    I stated the vanish/x-zone tatic is because it makes Magic pretty pathetic, another reason why Magic Power isn't a "huge" thing and should not be considered a huge factor for ranking a character, unless your attacking multiple enemies, however, against bosses, with the majority of them being solitary, the vanish/x-zone tatic will wipe them out far faster than using Ultima. If I can skim through the WoB with using this tatic and I got to the WoR with the vanish/x-zone tatic on lvl 14, it goes to show it's superiority over Magic Attacking because there is no way I can get to the WoR on lvl 14 by using magic attacks or pyshical damage, I feel that magic power shouldn't be considered so highly within this game when you have a powerful tool such as vanish/x-zone, in which everyone can use and exploit, and can be a far more effective tool, especially up against bosses.

    You're right, I wouldn't rate Ayla as a top tier. She gets Bronze Fist at level 96; before that she gets Iron Fist at level 72; and for the rest of the time, she was stuck with just a regular Fist. By the time she's hitting for 9999 damage, you would've been lightyears passed where the game actually presented any sort of challenge to you. If I were to tier RPGs, I would generally base them around a "standard" or "normal" playthrough conditions. When you've gone out of your way to break the game by leveling everyone to the max to the point where everything has become a joke, then a tier based on that wouldn't really give anything informative other than: who can cause the most overkill.

    Again, you keep bringing up 9999 x8 with Locke while ignoring the very obvious fact that you overleveled your characters to a point where nothing poses a threat to any of them. At that point, it's not the character himself/herself that is good; it's the "Level 99" part that is making you do the damage. If you want to tier FF6 as "the person who can provide the most overkill when max leveled," yes, Locke will be #1. If you play through the game without maxing everyone out, and without abusing crap like Vanish/Doom, you'd actually see the worth of each character, and your opinion might change then.

    Locke's speed is constantly overrated. The way FF6's ATB system works is, as long as a character's ATB bar is full, he/she gets a turn. This takes into account all the attack animation as well. Locke's bar will probably fill up first because of his high speed, but battles will generally play out like this:

    1. Locke's ATB bar fills up first, Locke attacks (animates)
    2. Character 2's ATB bar fills up next, Character 2 attacks (animates)
    3. Characters 3-4; Enemies' ATB bars fill up, they attack in turn (animates)
    4. Locke, who probably had a full bar sometime during step 3 STILL has to wait for his turn because he has to wait for all the attack animation of step 3 to finish
    5. Repeat from step 1

    All Locke's speed does is probably ensure that he gets to attack first and that his bar fills up faster. On paper, it sounds really good; but in practice, it's really not as spectacular as everyone makes his speed out to be. Locke is still forced to wait until everyone who got a full ATB bar after him finishes their animation, at which point he'll go again and the cycle repeats.

    "Big 4" meaning those who can equip Illumina... that's a pretty shoddy top tier requirement. Especially because:

    1. You don't get the Illumina until over half the game is over, essentially ignoring the whole WoB and decent chunk of WoR.
    2. The way you're judging things is by maxing everyone's level to 99, which I've stated why that type of ranking really means jack about how the character plays.

    Vanish/Doom; Vanish/X-Zone is broken. I think if a person was serious about making a character tier list in FF6, they'd disregard that. I've gone through the game with most characters at Level 6 and never having to use Vanish/Doom; so don't think that it is impossible to beat the game without it. You underestimate magic because you used a broken glitch. You might as well just make your tier list:

    Top tier: Level 99 characters, Vanish/Doom
    Bottom tier: anything else

    But then again, what good is that tier list going to be?

    Magic is very good if you play through the game "normally," and that Magic Power stat affects a lot more attacks than just spells.
  • roninwarrior24roninwarrior24 Custom Title Joined: Posts: 635
    Star Wars KOTOR 2 Classes

    S rank:

    Jedi Consular/Sith Lord

    A Rank:

    Jedi Guardian/Jedi Weaponmaster
    Jedi Guardian/Sith Marauder

    B, C, D rank:

    Every other combination

    Jade Empire styles:

    S Rank:

    Jade Golem
    Mirabelle

    A Rank:

    Spirit Thief
    Hidden Fist
    Paralyzing Palm

    B Rank:

    Tempest
    Stone Immortal

    C Rank:

    Heavenly Wave
    Dragon Storm
    Dire Flame
    Ice Shard

    ? Rank:

    Everything else other than martial styles in that you need them.

    Fable:

    Enflame and Physical Shield are the god magics. Don't know about anything else.

    Halo 2:

    Sword and RL are top. Needlers suck.

    Can't think of any more.
Sign In or Register to comment.