if you are gonna tier it by usefulness throughout the game, then edgar comes out on top with gau not far behind. sabin should be up there since hes superior than most characters throughout the game. seriously, whats keeping sabin down besides the fact he cant equip some of the best equipments. but by the time you got everyones best equips, you are on your way of being godlike. terra and celes are like clones but they have above average stats and has good equips.
mog is nothing really spectacular in the first half of the game but shines in the 2nd half due to moogle charm. relm is good from the start since her magic and speed is extremely high. locke sucks for majority of the game (shitty magic, shitty attack power) but since he can steal another pair of genji gloves, he still have some use. setzer is semi-useful. he doesnt really shine until you get his fixed dice and his slots are decent despite the fact that sometimes its rigged and can cost you your game.
shadow isnt too useful since hes on and off your team and you wont get him till the very end. same with gogo but even worse since s/he wont have any esper bonuses (even if you arent trying to make your characters like demi-gods, the bonuses does add up over time).
top: edgar, gau, sabin, terra, celes
2nd: relm, mog
3rd: setzer, shadow, locke,
bottom: cyan, gogo, strago, umaru
You can get to the WoR with characters at Level 6. I have. I don't see what your point is about level 16 characters. All Locke has in a low-level game is that he is one of the characters who can equip with 128% Magic Block. Damage-wise, at that low level, he isn't causing much, at least compared to the other 128% Magic Block characters (Terra, Celes, Edgar, Relm).
You talk about double-standards, but I haven't really applied any, since I have neither tiered the game at extreme max-levels; at extreme low-levels; nor on a natural magic game. I don't quite fully understand your comparsion because you've seem to have done all three. I'm assuming you're judging a high level Locke to:
1. A level 20 Terra casting Ultima not hitting 9999 (actually, a Morphed level 20 Terra properly equipped WILL hit 9999)
2. A natural magic game Terra getting Ultima at level 80
You're analogies don't exactly make sense because I don't equate the Illumina to being a machine gun, while everything else in the game are empty fists. I further don't equate Locke to being Cable, making everyone else a scrub character like Ryu (or 5 times worse).
So what standard exactly are you applying to the game when you tier? I've stated mine; just a regular playthrough of the game, learning magic through Espers, not ever taking time out to gain levels, not abusing Vanish/Doom. I also take into account the WoB, not just how a character can operate in the final portions of the game, since that would be ignoring more than half of the game itself. I'd figure that wouldd be the most fair and sensible way of tier the game because:
1. Most people don't play the game with restrictions (low-level; natural magic, so a tier based on them would be rather narrow viewed)
2. Tiering the game when everyone is at max level and max-Esper altered stats is pretty pointless because everyone at that point is just overkilling enemies
The facts are simple: Locke is only "top tier" if you over level everyone to level 99; and even then, "top tier" just means that he provides the most overkill at 9999 x8. His equipment is nothing that special. Out of his armors, 7/14 people can equip his Genji Armor; 6/14 people can equip with his Force Armor; and the rest who couldn't use either have their own respectable armor selections. Locke can use the Illumina, but the other 3 who can also equip it, do a much better job in other areas, and didn't lag behind in the WoB like Locke did. And finally, his speed is extremely overrated due to how the ATB system actually functions; meaning at best, Locke will get to strike first (only practical purpose this would have is in a Brachosaur fight or if you wanted to run away), but he will not be getting extra turns because of his "great speed."
Locke is not trash, but he's not top tier either. Unless you like to power level and break the game, there are definitely other more viable and useful characters than him.
Master Chibi wrote: »
Whiff your entire SOUL into c.MK in 3S.
Streets of Rage 3
Dr. Zen | Axel | Skate
9999x2 > 9999x4 or 9999x8
Celes is a good character I haven't that she sucks, or Terra for that matter but Locke is still a member of the top tier, or the better characters. He's better than Relm or Anyone else below him on that list.
Technically everyone can get Ultima. Ok, but so can Locke, yes Relm has more magic attack than Locke, but so what. Equipping Illumina makes a character that much better. And if you still don't think that Locke is all that great:
He gets the best items in the game, not only for himself but for other characters. You need Locke to get Ultima.
Locke can steal Megalixirs and other good items for creatures.
Even if you have 99 Megalixirs that's overkill alright.
"It's true that other characters can 128% Mblock, but that doesn't change the fact that Locke is better."
Locke with Atma or Illumina and Offering. Compared to Relm with Gembox and Economizer or what not. Locke is still the better character.
It's good to have high Mblock, but if you have that high of an Mblock don't you think it's overkill?
Basically it comes down to this:
mostly all can do the Genji Combo. Shadow is included because he has interceptor, throw ignores defenses, he already has high magic power, and high Mblock.
Even at level 40, if you raise the Vigor on a character he or she will still do considerable amounts of damage with the Offering or Genji combo. Simply by Equipping Bismarck when you get him gives a Vigor +2 bonus in the WoB. Meaning that the characters can still achieve damage levels equal to or more than Ultima. The thing is that they won't have to waste to relic spots which are always needs for the Gembox and Economizer combo.
Dude, just let it go. Locke is top tier. Best items. Good speed in the beggining which let's him attack quick. But doesn't help in the end to the long attacks.
And if you didn't read my post, I validated the pros and cons of speed. So read my goddamn post this time. I'm not gonna reply to FF6 tiers anymore after this, it's like teaching a Christian about Zoroastrianism, or Asclepius, Osiris and comparing them to Jesus.
I think you meant: 9999 x2 < 9999 x4 < 9999 x8.
It's true that Ultima is a good spell but that doesn't mean that it's better than an Atma + Illumina combo. There is no way that
9999x2 > 9999x4 or 9999x8
Read it again. The statement said this.
I believe characters should be ranked on their full potential. Level 99 is within the limits of the game. If Squaresoft didn't want players to attain that high of a level, they would have implemented a limit.
I guess it depends on whether or not you want to set a limit for yourself. You could level yourself completely to level 99 and explore the full potentials and possibilities of each character that Squaresoft designed. Or you could limit yourself to under level 50 because of Strike's subjective viewpoint that anything higher is not fair for the CPU.
I didn't mention anything about fairness to the CPU. I don't understand why you guys think the concept of tiering the game when there is still challenge left in it and when all the characters haven't become clones of one another is such a foreign and strange concept.
JA N wrote:
top: Articuno Alakazzam
High: Garados Charizard Jolteon
everything else: Not Worth mentioning
Because by doing so, you are tiering the characters at a limit that you yourself are imposing on the characters. You aren't taking into account the full-potential of these characters. Who defines what limit should be placed on characters? You... or Squaresoft?
why did no one mention teleport and blade grasp? Teleport is awesome in Deep Dungeon since there is no height restriction and you can walk through walls. As long as you stay within 4 panels, teleport pretty much never fails, 5 gets iffy, but still relatively consistent.
Blade Grasp makes you immune to 90% of all enemies in the game.
I was never a fan of Worker 8. you can't haste him/heal him without someone using the Item skill, which is a waste of a slot. he doesn't move very fast/far, can't learn anything useful, and stats were mediocore compared to broken items that you can equip onto other characters.
I just wanted to add that lowering your characters faith down to the lowest level, maxing out brave + blade grasp makes them GODS. Time mages, Summoners, Mages, all of that is worthless. The best summons do about 50 points of damage (at max). So now you can beast for free. I used worker 8 like an archer, and thats where I got the idea to lower faith because a spell was cast on him and did no damage. But yeah, I usually sent him off to kill time mages and summoners.
I'm not sure if you've ever played Bare Knuckle 3, but if you have, where would Ash rank?
Anybody know the race tiers for Starcraft, SC: Brood War, WarCraft III, and WCIII: The Frozen Throne? I'm thinking about getting back into them. Or are they actually balanced these days?
I can vouch that theyre all pretty balanced except Reign of Chaos had horrid balance before FT came out. even it may be balanced through patching now, i wouldn't know because i moved onto FT and forgot RoC existed.
Diablo 2 LOD (from best to worst, all IMO)
sorc (fire spell damage is pure ownage thx to synergies)
druid (only 2 builds are effective)
I Am Lothar wrote:
Ma Chao and Lu Bu
Cao Cao, Gan Ning, Guan Ping, Jiang Wei, Pang De, Wei Yan, Xu Huang, Zuo Ci
Past this it really doesn't matter. Ma Chao really needs the Shadow saddle before he becomes God tier and Lu Bu always owns since he can max all of his stats and gets the best crowd control ground move in the game. Ma Chao has the best mounted charge move and his final weapon is really good.
Ling Tong is also top-tier without a doubt. His 4th charge is the most broken move in the game. That move alone makes him tops.
I Am Lothar wrote:
Yeah forgot him from the top tier but Lu Bu's crowd clearing charge is by far the most broken in the game.
Dude your in Mesa too, sweet!
Bubble Bobble tiers
Player 2 dino - top tier
Player 1 dino - bottom tier
stuff about FF1
Seiken Densetsu 3
God-Kevin (Werewolf form is teh truth.) Dark werewolf form beats u shitless.)
Yeah, those FF6 tiers are just totally wrong. While I can agree on some level of Locke being placed high (I do admit to him being the only character in the game to reliably do 9999 x8; it's just at that point it's... okay, we're done with this issue); there's A LOT on that list that is fundamentally wrong. Which includes:
- Umaro not being ranked last
- Edgar getting middle tier rank; when Tools practically own the WoB and he's capable of 128% MBlock
- Sabin at #2; Blitzes are essentially spells (since they're Magic Power based); and Sabin does not have a good MPower stat; Blitzes essentially only shine twice in the game (at the very beginning with Aura Bolt, and just when you get BumRush ASAP before you get all the other broken stuff in WoR)
- Gau ranked second to last?! Rages are probably your biggest damage dealers in WoB; giving you essentially free level 2 and 3 spells before you even have access to anything remotely that close in spell power; need I mention Cat Scratch + Tempest/Wind God Gau; Nightshade's Charm cheapness; Intangir near invincibility
PSO (phantasy star online) v1 tiers..
v1 weapon tiers
GOD - Spread Needle. this weapon was rediculous. hunters could use it, so it did sick damage. it shoots out about 6 needles, like a shot, but it shoots as fast as a handgun. also had rediculous range, spread needles got hella nerfed in the gc version though.
who cares about every other weapon? lol...
God Tier- Rocket Launcher (if u can aim it correctly=its death.), Sniper Rifle
High Tier-Pistol (The deadly 3-shot kill), Shotgun
Mid Tier (in Order)- Plasma Rifle, Plasma Pistol, Assault Rifle
Low-Tier-Needler, everything else