Tiers for non-fighting games?

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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Final Fantasy Tactics Tiers (all generic Classes)

    These tiers are based off of my experience playing versus with my friends using pro-action replay and the debug code. No rare equips or power leveling. Jobs are ranked based off of their individual merits. Obviously Calculator sucks without having spells to pool so basically I'm rating each job based on their abilities being used to their full potential. Also basing this off af characters who do not have uber high Brave or faith.


    God Tier
    Calculator: Math Skill is easily abusable especially if you use the infinite turns trick with the quick spell. Even without it they own everything.

    Top Tier:
    Summoner: Huge damage that can not hurt your own team.
    Ninja: Huge range and speed that is only defeated by Golem.
    Mediator: The onoly way to resist their attacks is with finger guard, and you have to give up your passive skill for it. Otherwise, there is no way to resist it.
    Dancer: Nameless Dance is only defeated by Ribbon. Without a ribbon you are finished.

    High Tier
    Monk: Versitile and unblockable. They lack in power though
    Samurai: Huge damage an buff potential
    Bard: Great buffer and really good when given a skill that complements them like draw out.

    High-Mid Tier
    Knight: Great defense and attack but must rely on other classes to be really good.

    Mid Tier
    Black Mage: Good damage, but not as good as Summoner
    Time Mage: Good overall but not as good as other buff classes
    Chemist: Items are good and so are guns. They lack anything to put them over the top.
    Lancer: Jump is too unreliable, attacking from two spaces away is good.
    Oracle: Spell chances are too low.
    Geomancer: Doesn't do enough damage and status chances are too low.

    Mid-Low Tier
    Thief: Steal heart is good.
    Archer: Outclassed by guns and magic. Charge Sucks.
    Mime: Good for the infinite turns trick. That's it.
    White Mage: White Magic is less reliable than items or calculating.

    Low Tier:
    Squire: Nothing to help in combat. Accumulate is their only saving grace.
  • N-KenN-Ken dipthrongjr jr Joined: Posts: 2,935
    I couldnt even read all of the FF6 discussion, but if allowed to use glitch CYAN is pretty much Alpha and Omega tier, Terra Celes Edgar Locke is the pretty standard big 4 tt after that, because they can be in a party together and all have 128 Mblock(or maybe one only has 123 or so, I forget) Which makes you invincible. Plus steal is HUGE in LLGs for econos and such. The difficult thing about tiering FF6 is everyone pretty much evens out with decent high levels and good equips, thats why usually LLG is a better way to judge.

    EDIT: I think I still have the old Tier thread saved if someone wants it. That thread was classic:)
    SHIPP ITT: hey vietcong SHIPP ITT: nice job sunday
    vietcong01: tyshipp SHIPP ITT: np, hud
    vietcong01: ok gl
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    PsiPhi wrote:
    Metal Warriors (vs. mode)
    Drache
    Prometheus
    Nitro
    Havoc
    Spider
    Ballistic
    I almost flamed you for putting spider there, but then I saw drache and prometheus at the top of your list. sorry, but you don't know shit about MW
  • Clockw0rkClockw0rk ~!~!~! Joined: Posts: 607
    Shining Force II

    Top Tier
    Hero
    Peter <-- Phoenix
    Kazim(Sorcerer Version), Sarah(Master Monk Version), Slade

    Middle tier
    Everyone else

    That's all for now
    Depends on how you play it (ie what lvl you promote) but

    top = Master Monk Karna by far

    right after = Peter, Tyrin

    Clockw0rk
  • #reload#reload huh Joined: Posts: 853
    for FFVI...even though a lot of the talk was way back, i just thought i'd go through the tier list myself...

    (in order KIND OF, not sure about numbers 4-7 since they're really close)

    top tier

    1 - terra: best equips, female equips, 2nd highest magic, MORPH, reaches 128 m block pretty easily
    2 - celes: best equips, female equips, good magic, doesn't have to waste a relic slot for white cape (like terra does) since she starts off with 9%
    3 - edgar: best equips, tools are good for a big part of the wob
    4 - gau: rages > wob and a lot of wor, good speed, high starting m block, wind god gau
    5 - mog: maxes out defense EASILY, owns the illumina guy for free, jump, dances > wob
    6 - shadow: good speed, throw is really good (and cheap, money wise) damage, interceptor
    7 - relm: highest mother fucking magic (with a base of over 40, and +6 from what terra is), and 128 mblock easily, female equips

    mid tier

    8 - strago: lores are good for no magic games...
    9 - locke: speed isn't that great...steal is good for LLGs, and being able to equips swords is alright, but that's about it. can't really do decent damage through out the whole game
    10 - gogo: he'd be a lot better if it weren't for his shitty equips and not being able to raise stats
    11 - setzer: slots are really random. dice are really random. he's a good tank though (imp status, imp armor + fixed dice + offering)

    low tier -

    12 - sabin: he's a mage. his best damage is magic powered, and his magic is shitty. and he got shitty equips.
    13 - cyan: swordtechs take too long, shitty equips

    umaro tier -
    14 - umaro
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    N-Ken wrote:
    EDIT: I think I still have the old Tier thread saved if someone wants it. That thread was classic:)

    If you don't mind could send it to me, through PM or email, somehow? It was one of my favorite srk threads.
  • #reload#reload huh Joined: Posts: 853
    solid chrono, you forgot uber squire (which would proly be high mid)

    and i think ninja is top...speed growth is fucking humongous
  • N-KenN-Ken dipthrongjr jr Joined: Posts: 2,935
    Gen2000 wrote:
    If you don't mind could send it to me, through PM or email, somehow? It was one of my favorite srk threads.


    Yeah lemmee find that joint and Ill probably put it up tomorrow
    SHIPP ITT: hey vietcong SHIPP ITT: nice job sunday
    vietcong01: tyshipp SHIPP ITT: np, hud
    vietcong01: ok gl
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Thought it'd be interesting to compare the changes for Halo 2 with some tiers:

    GOD tier:
    energy sword
    fuel rod cannon
    rocket launcher
    high to mid:
    sniper rifle
    particle beam rifle
    shotgun
    battle rifle
    brute plasma rifle
    covenant carbine
    needler
    plasma rifle
    mid to low:
    plasma pistol
    SMG
    low tier:
    sentinel beam
    brute shot ( before the update, it was shitty....haven't heard about after )
    magnum

    IMO, best weapon combo for dual-wielding: drop their shields with about three plasma shots w/ plasma rifle ( or a charged plasma pistol shot ) and use an SMG burst in chest to head area to kill them ( or switch to shotgun and own them Ash-style :tup: ).
    Can't even stand Halo other than about 5 weapons and no double equips. FPS are crap. They don't have enough strategy or depth at all. Of course you also get unbalanced weapons.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Can't even stand Halo other than about 5 weapons and no double equips. FPS are crap. They don't have enough strategy or depth at all. Of course you also get unbalanced weapons.

    Saying that FPS games have no strategy or depth and that their mechanics are unbalanced is like saying the same about fighters, shmups or RPGs. Seriously, this thread doesn't need to degenerate into a thread designed just to bash on other genres than the one the site's based around.

    More to the point though, in FPS games there's always gonna be some weapons with abusable characteristics ( for instance, Half-Life 2's Gravity Gun has some disturbing usages I hear, I haven't played the game personally, but that's what I hear ). I mean hell, the Turok series has some weapons that pretty much break the game ( behold the Cerebral Bore that combos with any other weapon for instant death from 2... and the razor-boomerang-thingy ) , but it all boils down to player choice. You can play for fun or you can play to win without moral consequence, bottom line of any video game where more than one player is involved.
  • Terry_nbTerry_nb ... Joined: Posts: 1,236 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    The top 3 chars in Shining Force 1 on the Genesis in my opinion:

    Musashi (incredible power and great defence, the umatched tank in the game I just recently played)

    Domingo (best HP, MP and great defence, + he is the only flying spellcaster!)

    Zylo/Arthur (Zylo has fantastic movement for a strong fighter and his attacks do on critical extreme damage, just promote him as late as possibile, Arthur is up with him, because he learns some magic as a Knight! gets the best centour stats in the end after a late promotion and he has a very good movement rate)
    SFA 4 needs to be made ...
  • AbhiAbhi Best Team EVER Joined: Posts: 1,550 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    sonic 3 & knuckles

    sonic = top tier
    tails and knuckles = second
    I'm like an Hadoken

    I'm like Down Right Fierce
  • DonkusDonkus Time Marches On Joined: Posts: 503 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    ryuu wrote:
    I almost flamed you for putting spider there, but then I saw drache and prometheus at the top of your list. sorry, but you[, PsiPhi,] don't know shit about MW

    Share your knowledge. I like that game and would like to hear who's good and why.
    GOD BLESS THE RING
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Streets of Rage 3
    Roo
    Dr. Zen | Axel | Skate
    Blaze

    Hmm, I would put Zan with Blaze on bottom tier, and you forgot the other scret character Shiva! He's definetly top (kinda cheap)
  • MagnificoMagnifico Joined: Posts: 836
    Donkus wrote:
    Share your knowledge. I like that game and would like to hear who's good and why.

    read my two reponses in this thread to phipsi (page 2 and page 6), i already summed it up. I've talked to "ryuu" about Metal Wars and also played him a lot. so we have pretty much identical knowledge/views.
  • DonkusDonkus Time Marches On Joined: Posts: 503 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I never realized Ball-boy was so good. I'm amazed his ball attack is worth anything, much less what makes him #1.

    What's the rocket glitch?
    GOD BLESS THE RING
  • MagnificoMagnifico Joined: Posts: 836
    Donkus wrote:
    I never realized Ball-boy was so good. I'm amazed his ball attack is worth anything, much less what makes him #1.

    What's the rocket glitch?

    Hmm, maybe I'll record a replay of me and "ryuu" or someone else whos good playing. Everything would be clear then! I didnt say Ballistic was #1 though, I'd probably give the nod to Spider. Although I am much better with Ballistic.

    The rocket glitch... it basically a way to turn your regular damage, blockable rockets into mega powered (will kill full health bots in 3-4 shots), unblockable rockets. Spider makes the bset use of it by FAR, raising his stock even higher and just pushing him over the top. Havoc and Drache can also use it effectively. It's not very important for other bots though. Prometheus is almost defenseless against it, becaus the best counter is to run away =(. I'm the one who discovered the glitch, but I don't use it as effectively as this one guy I know, whos the best Spider player EVER. Fighting against a Spider with glitched rockets is the hardest thing in the game.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Tiers for Super Metroid tricks:
    1. Murder Beam
    2. infinite bomb jump
    3. gravity suit shinespark

    go to metroid2002.com and peep some of the other tricks, nasty stuff. :tup:
  • Shaolin SamuraiShaolin Samurai /u/ALotter you a bitch Joined: Posts: 50
    re: Dynasty Warriors

    In Dynasty Warriors 4, a few select characters were given an alternate mounted moveset. Instead of only being able to swing left to right, these characters only swing to the right with S chains and musous and have improved horse charges.

    Thus in DW4 and particularly 5, which allows bonuses from 4th weapons to stack with items, Ma Chao went from a pretty average spear user with an awkward Musou to a mounted monstrosity. I would argue that on a horse he easily surpasses Lu Bu, Zuo Ci, and the like. He is able to benefit from stat boosts from his 4th weapon, which has both +Attack and +Mounted stats, on top of the Horned Helm which further boosts Attack. His horse makes him extremely mobile and in the hands of a good player, almost invincible because his mobiility makes him hard to hit, even in a swarm of spear wielding peons. So he can use a Green Scroll to further increase his already insane attack with little adverse effect. His mounted attack and defense is godly, the fact that he is a spear user makes his reach incredible, his horse charge is 360 degree devastation, and his mounted musou juggles like nobody's business.
  • js2756js2756 Joined: Posts: 169
    re: Dynasty Warriors

    In Dynasty Warriors 4, a few select characters were given an alternate mounted moveset. Instead of only being able to swing left to right, these characters only swing to the right with S chains and musous and have improved horse charges.

    Thus in DW4 and particularly 5, which allows bonuses from 4th weapons to stack with items, Ma Chao went from a pretty average spear user with an awkward Musou to a mounted monstrosity. I would argue that on a horse he easily surpasses Lu Bu, Zuo Ci, and the like. He is able to benefit from stat boosts from his 4th weapon, which has both +Attack and +Mounted stats, on top of the Horned Helm which further boosts Attack. His horse makes him extremely mobile and in the hands of a good player, almost invincible because his mobiility makes him hard to hit, even in a swarm of spear wielding peons. So he can use a Green Scroll to further increase his already insane attack with little adverse effect. His mounted attack and defense is godly, the fact that he is a spear user makes his reach incredible, his horse charge is 360 degree devastation, and his mounted musou juggles like nobody's business.

    Not arguing that Ma Chao is one of the best characters in DW4 or 5, but Zuo Ci's horse charge is better due to the fact that Ma Chao has to stop to do his. This wouldn't be a big deal if both are using Shadow Harnesses since they can't be knocked off, but before you have one, Zuo Ci's charge is better because he can run guys over and still hit with his charge. Either the AI is smarter in DW5 or Ma Chao's horse charge range has been reduced because you can't sit and spam his horse charge in DW5 without using a shadow harness. The AI is now smart enough to knock you off your horse without getting hit by the charge (something is wasn't able to do in DW 4). Ma Chao is still the better overall rider, but Zuo Ci on a horse is braindead easy.

    DW5 top tier is: Zuo Ci, Lu Bu, Ma Chao (with shadow harness)

    DW5 mid tier is: everyone else except those below (too lazy to discriminate between characters right now)

    DW5 ass tier is: Sun Shang Xiang, Da Qiao, Xiao Qiao, Diao Chan
  • Shaolin SamuraiShaolin Samurai /u/ALotter you a bitch Joined: Posts: 50
    ^strongly agreed
  • DaBossDaBoss Joined: Posts: 26
    js2756 wrote:
    Not arguing that Ma Chao is one of the best characters in DW4 or 5, but Zuo Ci's horse charge is better due to the fact that Ma Chao has to stop to do his. This wouldn't be a big deal if both are using Shadow Harnesses since they can't be knocked off, but before you have one, Zuo Ci's charge is better because he can run guys over and still hit with his charge. Either the AI is smarter in DW5 or Ma Chao's horse charge range has been reduced because you can't sit and spam his horse charge in DW5 without using a shadow harness. The AI is now smart enough to knock you off your horse without getting hit by the charge (something is wasn't able to do in DW 4). Ma Chao is still the better overall rider, but Zuo Ci on a horse is braindead easy.

    DW5 top tier is: Zuo Ci, Lu Bu, Ma Chao (with shadow harness)

    DW5 mid tier is: everyone else except those below (too lazy to discriminate between characters right now)

    DW5 ass tier is: Sun Shang Xiang, Da Qiao, Xiao Qiao, Diao Chan

    Sorry, but the bottom tier is just straight up off. Only Diao Chan deserves to be in the bottom tier. The other girls' movesets are SO good, that their slow attack speed doesn't make the characters that much worse. Also, don't forget to take into account that Da Qiao and Xiao Qiao have very naturally fast attack speed, meaning if the speed was decreased, they still attack at a decent speed. And how is Zhang Jiao not in the bottome tier?

    BTW, the top tier is right ":^)"
  • js2756js2756 Joined: Posts: 169
    DaBoss wrote:
    Sorry, but the bottom tier is just straight up off. Only Diao Chan deserves to be in the bottom tier. The other girls' movesets are SO good, that their slow attack speed doesn't make the characters that much worse. Also, don't forget to take into account that Da Qiao and Xiao Qiao have very naturally fast attack speed, meaning if the speed was decreased, they still attack at a decent speed. And how is Zhang Jiao not in the bottome tier?

    BTW, the top tier is right ":^)"

    You don't seem to realize just how slow their attacks are now that they have to use heavy weapons. They do not attack at decent speeds anymore. Charge moves are almost completely out of the question because of how slow they come out (only exception is 4C for both Qiao sisters) or they suck (3C for Da Qiao is pretty bad, it's ok for Xiao Qiao). Da Qiao's and Sun Shang Xiang's S chains no longer combo due to the slower attack speed. Being dependent on S chains also means you can't fight musou raged opponents. You might be able to make a case for Da Qiao not being ass, because her musou is quite good, but that's pretty much all she has going for her.

    I only put in the obvious characters for the ass tier. There may be other candidates as well (possibly Zhuge Liang), and I almost never play Zhang Jiao. I'm trying to come up with a complete tier list that breaks down the middle tier right now, but it'll take a bit of time.
  • KhiempossibleKhiempossible NAGEHAME User Joined: Posts: 3,254
    Clockw0rk wrote:
    Depends on how you play it (ie what lvl you promote) but

    top = Master Monk Karna by far

    right after = Peter, Tyrin

    Clockw0rk

    Shining Force II

    God Tier:

    Karna
    Sheela

    (they can hit level 99 no problem)

    top tier
    Bowie
    Peter
    Tyrin (wiz)
    Claude
    Slade
    Gerhalt

    Mid Tier:
    Everyone else

    Shit Tier:
    Elric
    Janet
    Luke
    Skreech
    "Win when you can; lose when you have to; but always play cheap" - Familyman
  • DonkusDonkus Time Marches On Joined: Posts: 503 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Alien vs Predator arcade

    Top
    Dutch
    Middle
    P. Hunter
    P. Warrior
    Bottom
    Lin

    Alien vs Predator PC
    Top
    Predator
    Bottom
    Alien, Marine

    Alien vs Predator 2
    Top
    Marine
    Middle
    Alien, Predator

    Alien vs Predator 2 Primal Hunt
    Top
    Marine
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Middle
    Alien, Predator with Disc
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Bottom
    Predator without Disc
    GOD BLESS THE RING
  • DaBossDaBoss Joined: Posts: 26
    js2756 wrote:
    You don't seem to realize just how slow their attacks are now that they have to use heavy weapons. They do not attack at decent speeds anymore. Charge moves are almost completely out of the question because of how slow they come out (only exception is 4C for both Qiao sisters) or they suck (3C for Da Qiao is pretty bad, it's ok for Xiao Qiao). Da Qiao's and Sun Shang Xiang's S chains no longer combo due to the slower attack speed. Being dependent on S chains also means you can't fight musou raged opponents. You might be able to make a case for Da Qiao not being ass, because her musou is quite good, but that's pretty much all she has going for her.

    I only put in the obvious characters for the ass tier. There may be other candidates as well (possibly Zhuge Liang), and I almost never play Zhang Jiao. I'm trying to come up with a complete tier list that breaks down the middle tier right now, but it'll take a bit of time.


    Um, I actually understand how slow their attacks are. I play with all the characters and I've put in a LOT of time into this game, so I think I can comment on a total tier list a little more effectively than you can, no offense. Though they are certainly much slower attacking, it's still not THAT bad. It's manageable. They're attacks are naturally really good, so it makes up for it. Sort of. They're still crap, but all I'm saying is they shouldn't be in the same tier list as Zhang Jiao, Diao Chan, etc. Also, there is NO WAY that Zhuge Liang is in the bottom tier. You clearly haven't played enough if you're going to say that. If not first tier, he's in the second tier for sure, without a doubt.
  • js2756js2756 Joined: Posts: 169
    DaBoss wrote:
    Um, I actually understand how slow their attacks are. I play with all the characters and I've put in a LOT of time into this game, so I think I can comment on a total tier list a little more effectively than you can, no offense. Though they are certainly much slower attacking, it's still not THAT bad. It's manageable. They're attacks are naturally really good, so it makes up for it. Sort of. They're still crap, but all I'm saying is they shouldn't be in the same tier list as Zhang Jiao, Diao Chan, etc. Also, there is NO WAY that Zhuge Liang is in the bottom tier. You clearly haven't played enough if you're going to say that. If not first tier, he's in the second tier for sure, without a doubt.

    If you're going to attempt to counter my post, at least back up what you're saying with some sort of evidence other than you played the game a lot. I've also played the game a lot as well, so don't assume that you're automatically more knowledgeable than someone else based solely on the time that you alone played the game.

    As for Zhuge Liang, if you can explain where a 1 on 1 specialist with no good crowd control moves is in either the first or second tier in a game where the most important trait in a character is crowd control, I'll retract my statement. Otherwise, it still stands.
  • boxbox Joined: Posts: 1,611
    Magic Sword

    1) Knight - This guy rocks. Good coverage. Great damage. And he's got a lot of stamina as well. Good firing rate.

    2) Lizardman - Tough ally. Needs better coverage. But really good damage. Good firing rate

    3) Ninja - Really good coverage. Good firing rate. Stamina isn't too great. Not so good at higher levels.

    4) Thief - Good at higher levels. Bombs do really good damage. Ability to see hidden treasure chests/traps is useful as well. Stamina not too good.

    5) Wizard - Pretty powerful but slow recharge rate. Crappy stamina.

    6) Priest - same as Wizard except he only has 3 orbs and they home in on people. Quite slow recharge rate.

    7) Big Man - Strongest attack in game, but crappiest recharge rate. Good stamina. Really bad coverage/range.

    8) Archer - I hate this chick. Crap damage.
  • KhiempossibleKhiempossible NAGEHAME User Joined: Posts: 3,254
    Diablo 2 tiers?
    Broodwar tiers?

    My broodwar tiers definitely go Terran Protoss Zerg.
    "Win when you can; lose when you have to; but always play cheap" - Familyman
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Halo 2

    Top Tier = Spartan
    Low Tier = Elite
  • DaBossDaBoss Joined: Posts: 26
    js2756 wrote:
    If you're going to attempt to counter my post, at least back up what you're saying with some sort of evidence other than you played the game a lot. I've also played the game a lot as well, so don't assume that you're automatically more knowledgeable than someone else based solely on the time that you alone played the game.

    As for Zhuge Liang, if you can explain where a 1 on 1 specialist with no good crowd control moves is in either the first or second tier in a game where the most important trait in a character is crowd control, I'll retract my statement. Otherwise, it still stands.

    On Da Qiao and Xiao Qiao, I would counter your post, but it's almost unnecessary. What do you want me to do? Time every individual attack and tell you how quickly they get it out? Just use the characters! When you actually work with them and NOT try to play them as if they had lighter weapons (just treat them as heavy hitters), you'd realize they are not NEARLY bottom tier bad. Specially not as bad as Diao Chan.

    And about Zhuge Liang... this is where experience comes to play. You clearly haven't used the characters as much as I have, and when it comes to Zhuge, it's actually very obvious. Him (and Sima Yi) have the most destructive musous in the game. By FAR! Damage-wise, and crowd clearing-wise. Don't believe me? Test it, and then retract your statement.
  • DaBossDaBoss Joined: Posts: 26
    And also, what's with getting all fucking defensive for? Like I had said, I wasn't trying to be offensive. And also, in a fighting game board, I would think that it's obvious that experience in a game leads to better understanding of a game. Guess not huh?
  • FatalFuryDFatalFuryD Feint Cancel Addict Joined: Posts: 956
    Someone needs to do one for ragnarok online, I'm thinking about getting an account.. again
    My Eternal Fighter Zero cmv, match footages and tutorial vid:
    http://youtube.com/user/seaechiowai
    (Latest update: 7 Jan 2010)
    Inuie G. Choi
  • js2756js2756 Joined: Posts: 169
    DaBoss wrote:
    On Da Qiao and Xiao Qiao, I would counter your post, but it's almost unnecessary. What do you want me to do? Time every individual attack and tell you how quickly they get it out? Just use the characters! When you actually work with them and NOT try to play them as if they had lighter weapons (just treat them as heavy hitters), you'd realize they are not NEARLY bottom tier bad. Specially not as bad as Diao Chan.

    And about Zhuge Liang... this is where experience comes to play. You clearly haven't used the characters as much as I have, and when it comes to Zhuge, it's actually very obvious. Him (and Sima Yi) have the most destructive musous in the game. By FAR! Damage-wise, and crowd clearing-wise. Don't believe me? Test it, and then retract your statement.

    Not crowd clearing wise. Considering that Zhuge shoots them out 1 at a time, and almost always straight in front of him, he isn't going to be hitting too many opponents (1 or 2 with each laser), even with the mobility he is allowed. The ones he hits with the start of the musou will be recovering while he is still shooting out the last batch of lasers, unless you specifically target that enemy to hit with all the lasers, in which case you ignore the guys behind you and the guys at your sides. For it to even be remotely good at crowd control, it has to be the true musou which shoots out the bigass laser.

    Comparing that to someone like Zhen Ji or Pang Tong (neither of which are top, and are also pretty musou reliant), whose musous, do less damage but hit a huge radius with each hit, he pales very much in comparison.

    I have backed my statements with gameplay facts, indicating that I have played with the characters. I took offense to your comment because it seems you implied that I had barely played the game and was talking out of my ass.
  • MechanicaMechanica elias the flyest Joined: Posts: 6,252
    Diablo 2 tiers?
    PvM or PvP?

    PvM it'd probably be like

    Top: Paladin (hammerdin)
    Sorc

    ...the rest. :lol:
    KOForever WHY IS 14 SO UGLY whyyyy is alex's neutral stance so ugly
  • KhiempossibleKhiempossible NAGEHAME User Joined: Posts: 3,254
    I donno with so many immunities in the newer versions of d2 the sorc has a really fucking tough time soloing. Yeah I put pally as #1 in PvM. In PvP I'd go:

    Zon
    Sorc
    "Win when you can; lose when you have to; but always play cheap" - Familyman
  • Duy NguyenDuy Nguyen Thug life!!! Joined: Posts: 830
    FatalFuryD wrote:
    Someone needs to do one for ragnarok online, I'm thinking about getting an account.. again

    Here's a rough one through experience.

    I'm basing this towards PvP. Tiers would be obviously different for PvM and WoE. RO is a bit hard to tier, because certain equipment counters certain classes and even from that certain classes counter eachother.

    God Tier:
    Sniper
    Lord Knight

    Top Tier:
    Assassin Cross
    Stalker
    High Priest
    High Wizard

    Mid Tier:
    Whitesmith
    Paladin
    Bard/Dancer
    Professor
    Champion

    Low Tier:
    Creator

    I haven't played in a while, so probably things would have changed by now due to patches and whatnot. I seriously think that Snipers are broken in many ways imaginable, with super high damage with accuracy plus their bird ignores DEF. Lord Knight's Spiral Pierce skill does bullshit damage.

    There was a time where Paladins and Assassin Crosses were beyond broken. Paladin's Pressure skill does 2k damage with uncancelable casting and ignores dodge. Sounds shitty doesn't it, but it also stuns you and takes your SP down to zero. Assassin Cross's Breaker skill back then even in kRO it did like 10k+ damage, with no casting time. Also it's the only skill that can hit an emperium, so WoE was a breeze.
  • DaBossDaBoss Joined: Posts: 26
    js2756 wrote:
    Not crowd clearing wise. Considering that Zhuge shoots them out 1 at a time, and almost always straight in front of him, he isn't going to be hitting too many opponents (1 or 2 with each laser), even with the mobility he is allowed. The ones he hits with the start of the musou will be recovering while he is still shooting out the last batch of lasers, unless you specifically target that enemy to hit with all the lasers, in which case you ignore the guys behind you and the guys at your sides. For it to even be remotely good at crowd control, it has to be the true musou which shoots out the bigass laser.

    Comparing that to someone like Zhen Ji or Pang Tong (neither of which are top, and are also pretty musou reliant), whose musous, do less damage but hit a huge radius with each hit, he pales very much in comparison.

    I have backed my statements with gameplay facts, indicating that I have played with the characters. I took offense to your comment because it seems you implied that I had barely played the game and was talking out of my ass.


    Ok, sorry that you took offense, but I clearly stated I wasn't trying to offend. Either way, I don't want to get into any non-game related arguments, so forget it ":^)"

    But anyways, with Zhuge, true, the musou itself is fairly linear, but it doesn't matter too much because the thing itself is INSANELY strong. You can just turn in circles during the musous and enemies drop like flies. Or, for indirect crowd clearing, catch the officer with the musou, finish him off, and the crowd will be severely dropped because the general dies. Trust me, there is no way either Zhuge or Sima Yi are bottom tier. Those musous are the best in the game.

    And with Da Qiao and Xiao Qiao, all I can suggest is to solo with them using their fourths...... and then use Diao Chan. Then notice how much worse Diao Chan is because she's a WHOLE lot worse. Then, you'll realize that they truly do NOT belong in the same tier. Just try it. Trust me.
  • FatalFuryDFatalFuryD Feint Cancel Addict Joined: Posts: 956
    Duy Nguyen wrote:
    Here's a rough one through experience.

    I'm basing this towards PvP. Tiers would be obviously different for PvM and WoE. RO is a bit hard to tier, because certain equipment counters certain classes and even from that certain classes counter eachother.

    God Tier:
    Sniper
    Lord Knight

    Top Tier:
    Assassin Cross
    Stalker
    High Priest
    High Wizard

    Mid Tier:
    Whitesmith
    Paladin
    Bard/Dancer
    Professor
    Champion

    Low Tier:
    Creator
    .

    I had a feeling that my hunter kid had a decent potential.. I like how Dancers are better than Champion, a frickin rebirth class. Interesting shit. Tell me what sucks so bad about creator?

    Can you do a tier for MVP?
    My Eternal Fighter Zero cmv, match footages and tutorial vid:
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  • Duy NguyenDuy Nguyen Thug life!!! Joined: Posts: 830
    ^Woops, I mean Clown and Gypsy.

    Well Creator has no serious skills that can deal quick damage. Homonculus aren't even 100% implented and from that I bet it can't even do much damage. Throwing those pots at people ain't going to help either, since Sins can Cloak around you, Snipers shoot you, and Lord Knights rushing your ass with spears, and etc.

    I don't really know much about MVP, because I don't usually solo, since I always make Sin Cross. Seriously, some of the classes can't solo for shit during MVP, ie Champs, Sin Cross, Stalkers, etc. So I'll base this MVP tier on mainly usefullness during a party situation, because if you want to know about soloing, then it's all about Snipers, High Priest, High Wizards, and Lord Knights.

    Top Tier:
    Sniper
    High Wizard
    High Priest

    Mid Tier:
    Lord Knight
    Paladin
    Whitesmith (Mainly for support, but if you have a bitch load of money...Mammonite)
    Stalker (Bow)
    Champion
    Clown/Gypsy
    Assassin Cross (Full Crits)
    Professor

    Low Tier:
    Creator

    Here's a tier for WoE. This is based on their usefullness during WoE.

    Top Tier:
    Assassin Cross
    Stalker
    High Priest
    Sniper
    High Wizard

    Mid Tier:
    Whitesmith
    Lord Knight
    Paladin
    Clown/Gypsy
    Champion
    Professor

    Low Tier:
    Creator

    I kinda placed the Whitesmith above Lord Knights and Paladins, mainly because of Hammerfall. Hammerfall can beat our SinX and Stalkers quite well, because it stuns them even during cloak and chase walk.
  • cam347cam347 Joined: Posts: 841
    Streets of Rage 2

    Me and my brother have been playing this game alot lately. I always use Axel or I can't beat the game while he always uses Skates (Sammy) and the same goes for him usually.

    1. Skates
    2. Axel
    3. Blaze
    4. Max

    Skates & Axel are definetly imo maybe Axel as 1 not sure. But Skates is the fast, the only one who can run and his :r: + A move. You need this move to beat the wrestler since he can't knock you out of it, plus it's good for the kickboxers and Barbon (the 1st boss) since this move is quick & deals out damage quickly. Just like Bison's CE Psycho Crusher, it will still do alot of damage if blocked.

    Axel of course is just your basic average character liek the Ryu of the game lol.

    I never even play Blaze so I can't say.

    Maxx is horrible, no range, too slow, he can only do damage if close plus it's pretty easy for the enemies to tag team his big ass.
    XBL- FKE SNK
  • felinekifelineki Joined: Posts: 981
    Hammer Bros. Suit Mario is God Tier. Hammer that shit down!
    "The Hammer Bros. Suit was more broken than O. Sagat, AHVB, and CotA Magneto put together." -specs

    "I always thought that O. Sagat, AHVB, and CotA Magneto were just aspects of the Hammer Bros. Suit, broken down in several pieces in order to keep the universe from breaking." -Wellman
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    cam347 wrote:
    Streets of Rage 2

    Me and my brother have been playing this game alot lately. I always use Axel or I can't beat the game while he always uses Skates (Sammy) and the same goes for him usually.

    1. Skates
    2. Axel
    3. Blaze
    4. Max

    Skates & Axel are definetly imo maybe Axel as 1 not sure. But Skates is the fast, the only one who can run and his :r: + A move. You need this move to beat the wrestler since he can't knock you out of it, plus it's good for the kickboxers and Barbon (the 1st boss) since this move is quick & deals out damage quickly. Just like Bison's CE Psycho Crusher, it will still do alot of damage if blocked.

    Axel of course is just your basic average character liek the Ryu of the game lol.

    I never even play Blaze so I can't say.

    Maxx is horrible, no range, too slow, he can only do damage if close plus it's pretty easy for the enemies to tag team his big ass.

    I quite concur about Max; I always use him relatively well. He's slow, sure, but he can take a beating, and his specials are great. "HUN-DAAH!" For tiers, I'd have to say:

    1. Max
    2. Blaze
    3. Axel
    4. Skate

    Max is probably the best for going through the game quickly, because he deals the most damage. He requires skill to avoid hits though.

    Blaze is an average character as is Axel; in fact I think Blaze and Axel should be tied.

    Skate...sure, Skate has the dash, but he doesn't deal enough damage to be effective on his own.

    I'm full of it and you probably shouldn't listen to me.
  • Iczer oneIczer one chillin' at Buxi Bar Joined: Posts: 216
    1. Max
    2. Blaze
    3. Axel
    4. Skate
    I think that list is right.
    Blaze is better than Axel because she's faster, she has a very simple pattern that she could repeat over and over, can't say exactly how because my friend played her ^^ she was also very good with knives iirc.
    I'm a Skate user, and i love playing him, but he IS the worst character ;/ fast but way too weak, he can effectively be played like a grappler though.
    Fun combo to usewith Skate: jumpin d Attack (you can combo after that), Punch-Punch-Kick, front grab -> headbutt-headbutt, overhead flip (press jump button), back grab (NICE damage, in fast the best he can do, try to abuse where you can, sadly it can be interrupted :/)
    always coming back
  • ParryAllParryAll Dangerous Posts Joined: Posts: 3,284
    Damn all you guys are way off on the Streets of Rage 2 tiers.

    First of all, skate is bottom fucking tier. Let's all agree on that.

    1.Max
    2.Axel
    3.Blaze
    4.Skate

    Axel is hella better than Blaze. He does more damage than her, and he has got better range. But that is all irrelevant to two words: Grand Upper. Axel's grand upper (f.f.p) is the best move in the game. It beats everything, and does insane damage-more so than even his f.+A special move (which sucks). Grand upper can just blow through a wave of enemys in front of you. It also knocks alot of bosses out of their special moves. It's rediculously good.

    Blaze is ok. She's a bit quicker than Axel, and her C+B move is pretty decent as it hits both sides, as are her jumping moves, and her f.+A special. Also, she's good w/ a knife, but the lag of her knife attack can get you in trouble if you're not careful.

    Her biggest downfall though is when there are a ton of enemies around, that's when Blaze runs into trouble. Alex can just Grand Upper his way out, and Max can muscle his way out, but Blaze and Skate have to resort to runaway tactics. And forget about Blazes f.f.Punch, it sucks ass.

    Max deals the most damage and has the best specials in the game. F.+A can just DESTROY some bosses due to a block-damage glitch. His normals have good range, and of course up close and in grabs he can fuck people up. His f.f.Punch slide easily makes up for his lack of speed, His jumping moves are good too.

    IMO Alex is better in a crowd of thugs than Max is, but against bosses I'd much rather have Max. OVerall it's close but Max inches out Alex as best character in the game.
    "Third Strike just has that flow which somehow alienates you from your surroundings and really plugs your brain into the match your playing and your able to comprehend so many different situations and mind games and mixups in such a limited amount of time and all this without even thinking" - Nubilous

    "[3rd Strike] makes you feel like the character is an extension of yourself when you get good enough." - AzureWolf

    "Street Fighter is now like The Simpsons. It's been bad longer than it's been good." -ParryAll
  • skankin garbageskankin garbage ARE YOU OKAY!? Joined: Posts: 961
    Megaman X8 Tiers?

    What do you guys think? I find it hard to rate the tiers, mostly cos there's a few different ways you could do it, plus I have bias towards X (as in, I like him the best). There are three different ways you could rate the tiers that I think would change things drastically:

    1. Barebones - no powerups, no armors, no special weapons and nothing from the R&D lab...just...nothing.

    2. Normal - able to use anything

    3. Post game - with special armors, and Zero's Sigma Blade.

    For post game, it's pretty easy, I think...

    Zero
    Axl
    X

    I say this cos with Zero's Black Armor and Sigma Blade, he tears everything up; what the hell can handle him at full power? :P Axl I'd say is better than X when he can take hits, because the only thing that really puts Axl at a disadvantage over X is that he takes 1.5X damage...but with high life, does it really matter? :P

    I have no idea about the other two. I have beat the game with nothing with everyone, but it seems like no one is at too great an advantage. What do you guys think?
    http://jamieobeso.blogspot.com/ - My own personal insights about games; totally inspired by David Sirlin and James Chen.

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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Advance Wars 2 tiers: (I am doing this from memory so I might be incorrect)

    Broken:
    DGR Colin, Sturm

    Star (Top):
    Hawke, Lash, Nell, Kanbei, Hachi

    High:
    Colin, Grit, Eagle, Jess, Sensei, Sami

    Mid:
    Andy, Olaf, Drake, Adder, Max

    Low:
    Flak, Sonja

    Once again, I am doing this COMPLETELY FROM MEMORY. Please correct me if I am wrong.
  • cam347cam347 Joined: Posts: 841
    Speed is really nothin' in side-scrollers. Look at Final Fight, Guy is the fastest but he still sucks.
    XBL- FKE SNK
  • boxbox Joined: Posts: 1,611
    cam347 wrote:
    Speed is really nothin' in side-scrollers. Look at Final Fight, Guy is the fastest but he still sucks.

    Guy doesn't suck in FF. Him and Cody are top 2. Haggar is last. Reason being that Haggar doesn't have an infinite. Cody and Guy do.

    And you're contradicting yourself. You said speed isn't a factor in side-scrollers, yet you mentioned Skate was #1 in Streets of Rage 2 because he's "fast" among other things. And you mentioned that Max is last because he's "slow" among other things.
  • Murt!Murt! Grindin... Joined: Posts: 702
    ^^ Guy does suck in FF. He has full-body genitalia syndrome and therefore consumes the most quarters.
    RIP Jeffery Gregory - See you at the Crossroads, man.
    (\ /)
    ( . .)
    c(")(")
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