Tiers for non-fighting games?

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  • StrikeStrike Joined: Posts: 78
    box wrote:
    Because by doing so, you are tiering the characters at a limit that you yourself are imposing on the characters. You aren't taking into account the full-potential of these characters. Who defines what limit should be placed on characters? You... or Squaresoft?

    Whoever makes his/her tier list decides the standard to which that tier list is based on. I justified why I chose not to tier the game at a point when nothing matters anymore. I explained why I thought a tier list of Level 99 characters is a rather moot point; as practically speaking, there is never any need to have to level that far. I explained why I thought Esper stat bonus manipulation would be rather pointless as well. I went into detail over the misconception that Locke's speed somehow gave him the ability to do more damage in battle by acting more times than other characters.

    If you can't handle a thought-out opinion on why Locke isn't as great as you have made him out to be, then don't read my posts. I already agree with everyone that a Level 99 Locke provides the most overkill damage in the game. It's just it seems hard for your side to see why I chose not to tier the game when everything has become effortlessly easy.
  • J-rideJ-ride OG Member Joined: Posts: 2,240 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    noodleman wrote:
    for FFT:

    why did no one mention teleport and blade grasp? Teleport is awesome in Deep Dungeon since there is no height restriction and you can walk through walls. As long as you stay within 4 panels, teleport pretty much never fails, 5 gets iffy, but still relatively consistent.

    Blade Grasp makes you immune to 90% of all enemies in the game.


    I was never a fan of Worker 8. you can't haste him/heal him without someone using the Item skill, which is a waste of a slot. he doesn't move very fast/far, can't learn anything useful, and stats were mediocore compared to broken items that you can equip onto other characters.

    I just wanted to add that lowering your characters faith down to the lowest level, maxing out brave + blade grasp makes them GODS. Time mages, Summoners, Mages, all of that is worthless. The best summons do about 50 points of damage (at max). So now you can beast for free. I used worker 8 like an archer, and thats where I got the idea to lower faith because a spell was cast on him and did no damage. But yeah, I usually sent him off to kill time mages and summoners.
    Woman was created for our destruction, and it is from her we inherit all of our miseries.

    Aramis from The Three Musketeers
  • DaBossDaBoss Joined: Posts: 26
    J-ride wrote:
    I just wanted to add that lowering your characters faith down to the lowest level, maxing out brave + blade grasp makes them GODS. Time mages, Summoners, Mages, all of that is worthless. The best summons do about 50 points of damage (at max). So now you can beast for free. I used worker 8 like an archer, and thats where I got the idea to lower faith because a spell was cast on him and did no damage. But yeah, I usually sent him off to kill time mages and summoners.

    Look, there's a TON of ways to make characters gods in FFT. There are WAY too many damn options in this game, and that's really the beauty of it. However, having minimum faith, maximum brave, and blade grasp doesn't make those mages worthless. A Math-Skilling 90 + Faith mage is STILL better than anything out there.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    DaBoss wrote:
    Gen2000:
    I'm not sure if you've ever played Bare Knuckle 3, but if you have, where would Ash rank?

    Despite his looks, Ash is up there with the Super characters IMO because while he lacks jumping attacks (IIRC) and can't use weapons he's insanely strong. He doesn't have much reach but he's also very fast.
  • mr.hadokenmr.hadoken Old School Style For You Joined: Posts: 621
    What about tiers for WCW World Tour thru No Mercy how would u guys rate those games if u played them. HCTP and Raw/Smackdown already have their rating for each character already so i assume those would be the correct tiers for those two games :karate:
    Good hit...but not enough power.
  • UltraDavidUltraDavid commenta..ttorney?? Joined: Posts: 6,053
    Anybody know the race tiers for Starcraft, SC: Brood War, WarCraft III, and WCIII: The Frozen Throne? I'm thinking about getting back into them. Or are they actually balanced these days?
    Your legal insider in entertainment and video games!
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  • Mr.SNKMr.SNK . . . . -B Joined: Posts: 1,809 mod
    UltraDavid wrote:
    Anybody know the race tiers for Starcraft, SC: Brood War, WarCraft III, and WCIII: The Frozen Throne? I'm thinking about getting back into them. Or are they actually balanced these days?

    Um well you see for a question like that its comes down to counter strating and good micro control, nothing more nothing less.
    A article on how to get better at fighting games, give it a read you might learn something.
    http://shoryuken.com/blogs/mr-snk/learning-how-get-better-fighting-games-1456/#comments
    Random E.Honda footage/My Youtube page.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/MrSNK
  • MagnificoMagnifico Joined: Posts: 840
    UltraDavid wrote:
    Anybody know the race tiers for Starcraft, SC: Brood War, WarCraft III, and WCIII: The Frozen Throne? I'm thinking about getting back into them. Or are they actually balanced these days?

    I can vouch that theyre all pretty balanced except Reign of Chaos had horrid balance before FT came out. even it may be balanced through patching now, i wouldn't know because i moved onto FT and forgot RoC existed.
  • Mr.SNKMr.SNK . . . . -B Joined: Posts: 1,809 mod
    Magnifico wrote:
    I can vouch that theyre all pretty balanced except Reign of Chaos had horrid balance before FT came out. even it may be balanced through patching now, i wouldn't know because i moved onto FT and forgot RoC existed.

    Dude your in Mesa too, sweet!
    A article on how to get better at fighting games, give it a read you might learn something.
    http://shoryuken.com/blogs/mr-snk/learning-how-get-better-fighting-games-1456/#comments
    Random E.Honda footage/My Youtube page.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/MrSNK
  • Duck StrongDuck Strong Yin to all Yang Joined: Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Terry_nb wrote:
    Diablo 2 LOD (from best to worst, all IMO)

    sorc (fire spell damage is pure ownage thx to synergies)
    barb/amazon
    pala/necro
    assasin
    druid (only 2 builds are effective)

    Are you talking about 1.10 or 1.11? And PvP or PvM, because honestly who gives a shit about PvM.
    My youtube channel (various MVC3 vids etc.):

    http://www.youtube.com/user/CrouchStrong?feature=mhsn
  • I Am LotharI Am Lothar ಠ_ಠ Joined: Posts: 2,798
    DW5 tiers

    God Tier:
    Ma Chao and Lu Bu

    Top Tier:
    Cao Cao, Gan Ning, Guan Ping, Jiang Wei, Pang De, Wei Yan, Xu Huang, Zuo Ci

    Past this it really doesn't matter. Ma Chao really needs the Shadow saddle before he becomes God tier and Lu Bu always owns since he can max all of his stats and gets the best crowd control ground move in the game. Ma Chao has the best mounted charge move and his final weapon is really good.
    AIM: SubtleDagger256
  • DaBossDaBoss Joined: Posts: 26
    DW5 tiers

    God Tier:
    Ma Chao and Lu Bu

    Top Tier:
    Cao Cao, Gan Ning, Guan Ping, Jiang Wei, Pang De, Wei Yan, Xu Huang, Zuo Ci

    Past this it really doesn't matter. Ma Chao really needs the Shadow saddle before he becomes God tier and Lu Bu always owns since he can max all of his stats and gets the best crowd control ground move in the game. Ma Chao has the best mounted charge move and his final weapon is really good.

    Ling Tong is also top-tier without a doubt. His 4th charge is the most broken move in the game. That move alone makes him tops.
  • I Am LotharI Am Lothar ಠ_ಠ Joined: Posts: 2,798
    DaBoss wrote:
    Ling Tong is also top-tier without a doubt. His 4th charge is the most broken move in the game. That move alone makes him tops.

    Yeah forgot him from the top tier but Lu Bu's crowd clearing charge is by far the most broken in the game.
    AIM: SubtleDagger256
  • DaBossDaBoss Joined: Posts: 26
    Yeah forgot him from the top tier but Lu Bu's crowd clearing charge is by far the most broken in the game.

    I'm not TOO sure on that. Ling Tong's 4th Charge has almost NO recovery time, and it has a huge hit range. This means he can use it over and over and over again with no drawbacks. I've gone through entire levels without getting touched once many, many times with him. You can probably do the same with any of the top/god tier, but the thing is, I wasn't even really trying ":^)" The problem with Ling Tong is, all of his other moves aren't really too hot. However, that one move (and his attack and walking speed) automatically put him in the top tier.
  • MechanicaMechanica elias the flyest Joined: Posts: 6,252
    Bubble Bobble tiers

    Player 2 dino - top tier
    Player 1 dino - bottom tier
    KOForever WHY IS 14 SO UGLY whyyyy is alex's neutral stance so ugly
  • js2756js2756 Joined: Posts: 169
    DW5 tiers

    God Tier:
    Ma Chao and Lu Bu

    Top Tier:
    Cao Cao, Gan Ning, Guan Ping, Jiang Wei, Pang De, Wei Yan, Xu Huang, Zuo Ci

    Past this it really doesn't matter. Ma Chao really needs the Shadow saddle before he becomes God tier and Lu Bu always owns since he can max all of his stats and gets the best crowd control ground move in the game. Ma Chao has the best mounted charge move and his final weapon is really good.

    Uh, Zuo Ci not god? His charge on a horse is better than Ma Chao's (it's mobile) and he's more versatile on the ground than Ma Chao. I also can't agree with all the officers you put in top. Can you justify why Cao Cao, Gan Ning and Pang De are there?

    On a side note, no one character can max all stats due to the way the weapon system works. Lu Bu comes closest in terms of the 4 base stats due to having +20 attack and defense, and +19 to life and musou on his ultimate.

    bottom tier is also: Sun Shang Xiang, Da Qiao, Xiao Qiao and Diao Chan simply because their ultimate weapons are heavy whereas everyone else's is either medium or light weight.
  • MagnificoMagnifico Joined: Posts: 840
    MrSNK wrote:
    Dude your in Mesa too, sweet!

    Heh yeah, just moved here recently, sup.

    Mechanica wrote:
    Bubble Bobble tiers

    Player 2 dino - top tier
    Player 1 dino - bottom tier

    what's the difference?
  • epsilon_epsilon_ helpful Joined: Posts: 3,582
    PSO (phantasy star online) v1 tiers

    God - HUmar : he had as high max atp has hucast, could use all techs, as much ata as you would ever need, and extremely high atp. as a male character, he had excellent weapon animations as well.

    top - HUnewarl many of the same reasons humar is top: high atp and can use all techs. slightly lower ata/atp than humar in exchange for the practically useless mst stat.

    high-mid - RAmar only ranger who can use techs, and had just as much ata/atp as the robot rangers too...

    mid - HUcast : high atp/ata/hp good stat growth, just no techs...

    low-mid - RAcast/RAcaseal they both suck pretty bad, but at least they have good ata and decent atp.

    Bottom - all forces...mainly because techs sucked in v1, and barely did any damage, at least they can usually hit every enemy, but in a team full of humars using spread needles, they'll have to hurry


    v1 weapon tiers

    GOD - Spread Needle. this weapon was rediculous. hunters could use it, so it did sick damage. it shoots out about 6 needles, like a shot, but it shoots as fast as a handgun. also had rediculous range, spread needles got hella nerfed in the gc version though.

    who cares about every other weapon? lol...

    PSO v2 tiers - pretty much the same, except forces dont suck as much now, but they still suck.

    v2 was also the beginning of battle/challenge modes.

    v2 battle tiers:

    top - HUmar: humars were really good in battle. they had alot of atp/ata and were able to use techs pretty well too. ice gifoie trick + brand from a humar=dead you. they also had male tech animations (which are the fastest in the game using no weapons)

    FOnewms were also top because they had TONS of tp, and techs were really good in battle. they could use like 2 rafoies to take out your entire team pretty quickly, they could also resta alot because of their high tp, and they had the super fast tech animation of wepless males, so they would never equip weps.

    high-mid - HUnewarls, hunes had good evp/dfp/mst and decent enough atp to use weps. the only thing that really hurt them was sub par tech casting animations and their saber animation sucked kinda.

    FOnewarls were also pretty good, although again...slow tech animation.

    mid - HUcast, hucs did alot of damage & high hp, but no techs..

    FOmarls could be mid too, while they had more hp than the other forces, her techs did less damage, and she had less tp.

    low-mid - RAmars just dont do enough damage, and they have very little hp. their tp was even lower than HUmar's, non existent atp too, but at least they had techs.

    Bottom - Android Rangers...no redeeming qualities. no damage...no techs...no nothing.

    ba tiers were pretty much the same as in v2 in the GC version, but RAmar/RAmarl become mid because techs knock down now. HUnewarl moves up even more because techs in general are stronger. FOnewarl also moves up because her simple tech boost allows her to do rediculous damage with 1 foie/zonde.
    i don't care what the critics say, violence is a beauuutiful thing!
  • CaliScrubCaliScrub Coca-Cola Junkie Joined: Posts: 28
    More notes about FF6:

    I'm not going to enter the debate about what level a tiering "makes sense" for this game, mostly because I haven't formulated an argument one way or the other. I'm going to focus on the Gem Box vs. the Genji combo.

    With Gem Box, you can actually do 9999x5 damage a turn, not just 9999x2: Ultima-Quick, Ultima-Ultima, Ultima-Ultima. For your first X-magic turn you MUST cast Quick 2nd... for some reason, if you cast Quick first (for example, Quick-Ultima), time will start again after your 4th spell instead of your 6th. Of course, without the Economizer, this is a huge drain on MP. Then again, you can always stick in an Osmose in place of one of those Ultimas and refill your MP after every go, in essence paring your damage down to 9999x4 per turn but allowing you to free one of your relic slots from the Economizer.

    In general, I think Gem Box + whatever (usually Economizer, but not necessary if the enemies have tons of osmosable MP) is better than Genji combo. Sure, 9999x5 is still less than 9999x8, but:

    (1) If you're facing more than 1 enemy, suddenly 9999x5 turns into (9999x5)x2 or more, while 9999x8 stays 9999x8.

    (2) Gem Box is more versatile than Offering+Genji, which really doesn't offer anything other than attack (at godly levels, I admit). Whereas with Gem Box, using Quick, you can Life 3 your whole party AND heal your whole party in a single turn; or if only one character is left alive, you can Life 2 your entire party, and still have enough time in your turn for 2 Ultimas.

    (3) Offering+Genji isn't really that hot unless you're also equipped with top tier weapons (Illumina, Atma Weapon, Valiant Knife, etc.). By contrast, most of the high level spells still kick ass even if you're wearing a tattered shirt and wielding a pointy stick, so a Gem Box user can be godly without hogging all the good weapons.
  • roninwarrior24roninwarrior24 Custom Title Joined: Posts: 635
    I got some more lists. Help me out if you can...

    Tales of Symphonia:

    Top?: Lloyd, Zelos/Kratos
    Upper?: Raine, Genis, Sheena
    Mid?: Presea, Regal, Colette

    I'm not too sure about those...

    Golden Sun The Lost Age:

    Top?: Jenna, Isaac (as Masters, they can be the most uber characters in the game)
    Upper?: Felix, Garet (tanks. Uber powerful and awesome with the best weapons. Best classes can give good healing as well)
    Mid?: Ivan (super fast and can use light blades, but not as uber as the above)
    Low?: Sheba, Piers, Mia (weak, sucky class possibilities, dies easily, etc.)

    Need to think of more. Also, why is the FF1 Black Mage bottom tier? He is a staply in most players terams, as well as the Fighter and the White Mage. Bottom tier IMO is probably Red Mage/Wizard and Thief/Ninja. Masters also suck for 90% of the game.
  • StrikeStrike Joined: Posts: 78
    NES FF1 Tiers:

    Top: Fighter
    Second: Red Mage
    Middle: Black Belt; Black Mage
    Bottom: Thief; White Mage

    Fighters are undisputedly the best class in the game. The general rule is: the more Fighters you have in your party, the better your party is. Being an offensive and defensive monster; Fighters can dish it out without having to constantly run away from battles like most other classes would force you to do (White/Black mages). And even better, they take an incredible amount of abuse, truly the only class that can even be considered a tank. The myth is that Fighters are expensive to maintain. This is absolutely false, and they are practically one of the cheapest characters to have in your party if you just realize 2 things: Silver Swords (4000 G) and Steel Armor (35k G) are ripoffs. Don't buy those 2 things for your Fighters, and then you'll realize all of their equipment is findable (i.e. FREE).

    Red Mages get a bum rap when it is totally not deserved. It's just, people fail to realize that physical power is so much more effective and important in this game than magic is. Magic has it's uses for sure; but the way the magic system works, your pure magicians get far too little charges per magic level in comparision to the MANY MANY random battles you encounter. Thus a Red Mage, who has very competent attack power and defense (2nd best DEF behind the Fighter for most of the game), can actually contribute some worthwhile damage in battle where the pure mages are either defending or hitting back for 1 damage. Since a spell is cast the same regardless of the class casting it (their is no INT stat modifier that makes Black mages cast black magic better than Red mages; or White mages casting white magic better than Red mages); the RM has the best versatility of being able to cast all of the pure mages' important spells, and still having the offensive and defensive capabilities to contribute something in battle.

    Black Belts/Monks are overrated. Why? Well everyone loves their high damage and cheap affordability, but they all neglected on very important factor: those players who praise Black Belts probably overleveled a ton. Black Belts are like the FF1 equivalent of FF6 Locke. Overlevel unnecessarily to the point where you can plow through everything with any class; and the overleveled Masters will provide more damage than your Knights. But don't forget all those levels beforehand where the Black Belt was being smacked around like a red-headed stepchild because his defense was mage-level shit, and his offense (even barehanded) wasn't matching the Fighter's swords.

    Black Mage. You either get the players who just love BMs no matter what and rate them too high; or you get the ones who realized magic in general in FF1 isn't as strong as it will be in future FF games, and thus rate the BM too low because they are disappointed with the display of offensive magic available. Truth is, yes, magic is not that powerful in this FF game as in others, but FF1 offensive magic > FF1 healing magic. The problem is mainly around the whole magic level charge system. You fight way too many random battles in this game in contrast to how many spell charges the game gives you. So what happens is, the pure mages end up having to save their charges for bosses, making their participation in the many, MANY random battles practically non-existent. How the BM gets a nod over the WM is again because offensive magic can actually do good damage; and healing magic is essentially unnecessary. But like WMs; the high level spells (level 7 and higher) are essentially worthless. They're expensive; you get only 1-2 charges of it; and by the time you actually have 3+ charges of it, your characters are already gods (this is for all those praising "NUKE")

    Thief. What's to say? A second-rate Fighter with much less (and very noticable) attack and less defense. After class change, the Ninja is still second-rate to the Knight in everyway except now he can use low level black magic (which had become obsolete hours ago anyway). Due to the fact "speed" isn't factored in the NES version of FF1; you can't even say the Thief has the best chance of running away since all characters have an equal chance of it. Truly bottom tier, do to everything a Thief can do, a Fighter does multiple times better.

    White mage. Ah, probably THE most overrated class in the game. Why? Because years of playing many RPGs has conditioned people into believing that healing = essential; and thus any dedicated healing character must be useful. While generally true, it is very much the opposite in NES FF1. Magic in this game is simply too weak; and healing magic at that is especially unnessary do to the fact that most healing is done outside of battle through heal potions rather than Cure spells. The sad fact is, the White mage creates his own demand for healing. Put a white mage in your party, and I can pretty much gurantee you that he will be the one who needs the most healing. Harm is good against undead; but a BM's fire spells do the same thing except it's not undead specific; and it's not competing with Cure spells for charge usage. I challenge anyone to take your favorite party that includes a WM (usually the typical Fi/BB/WM/BM party... which itself is funny because it's usually recommended to beginners when in fact it's one of the most difficult parties to play through with); replace the WM with a Fighter, and you'll have SUCH an easier time with the game. I know people will disagree that a WM is still useful in FF1, but I think it's because they're just too conditioned in believing healers are always a benefit, without realizing that in this game, WMs are definitely a handicap to your party.
  • roninwarrior24roninwarrior24 Custom Title Joined: Posts: 635
    Strike wrote:
    stuff about FF1


    So would the #1 top tier team consist of Fighter/Fighter/Red Mage/Red Mage, from what you say? Expensive as hell, yes, but CRAZY power for most of the game, healing and offensive magic for squads of weaklings, and good defense. Plus, doesn't the Peninsula trick give you tons of money? I don't really remember. And o the tiers change for FF Origins/Dawn of Souls? Just curious.
  • StrikeStrike Joined: Posts: 78
    I'd say that's the 3rd best party. IMO...

    1. Fi/Fi/Fi/RM
    2. Fi/Fi/Fi/Fi
    3. Fi/Fi/RM/RM
    4. Fi/Fi/RM/BB

    One RM provides all the magic you'll ever need in FF1. And actually, Fighters are really cheap and not expensive (pure mages are the most expensive characters to keep because magic keeps getting ridiculously pricier as the game goes on). Just remember 2 rules:

    1. Don't EVER buy the Silver Sword (Elfland, 4000 G)
    2. Don't EVER buy the Steel Armor (some town before you fight Lich, 35000 G)

    These 2 items alone are why people say that Fighters are expensive to keep. If they just use the stuff found in treasure chests (Were Sword, Rune Sword, Ice Sword, Fire Sword, Coral Sword, etc.); and all the armor found in treasure chests (Iron Armor, Ice Armor, Fire Armor, Opal Armor, Dragon Armor, etc)... then they'd realize that pretty much ALL of the Fighter's/Knight's equipment is free.

    As for Dawn of Souls; yeah, the tiers change A LOT. I've played a bit, but from what I heard, Thieves got a major major boost. They critical hit very often, and Ninjas at the end of the game critical hit so often that they are doing more damage than Knights or Monks. Red Mages became shit. The magic system in Dawn of Souls is the traditional MP-based one (instead of spell level charges in FF1); and INT is factored. Meaning Red Mages not only cast spells worse than pure mages, but pure mages in turn get to cast their spells more often due to MP usage rather than spell charges. Plus I heard there were tons of pure mage specific items that were really broken. Fighters got weakened, as a result of better items available for the other classes. Monks were still pretty much the same (crap defense, better offense the higher you level up).
  • G.O.TG.O.T #1 Haggar fan Joined: Posts: 2,164
    My Favorite Tiers of my games

    Halo (weapons)
    God Tier- Rocket Launcher (if u can aim it correctly=its death.), Sniper Rifle
    High Tier-Pistol (The deadly 3-shot kill), Shotgun
    Mid Tier (in Order)- Plasma Rifle, Plasma Pistol, Assault Rifle
    Low-Tier-Needler, everything else

    Elemental Gearbolt-
    God-Phoenix Blaze (killed everything but bosses in 1 hit.
    High-Thunder Tiger
    Mid/Low-Water Snake

    X-Men (SNES)-
    God-Beast (high damage potential, and invincibility frames in attacks), Wolverine (Dive attack has mad priority. Tornado Claw is very powerful in a combo)
    High-Cyclops has so-so normal attacks. Optic Blast is the strongest special in the game. But has terrible startup.
    Mid-Gambit (balanced) nothing special Kinetic cards are good against bosses. Enemis tend to overwhelm Gambit.
    Low_ Psylocke has speed....thats it. too bad it aint MVC2.

    Seiken Densetsu 3
    God-Kevin (Werewolf form is teh truth.) Dark werewolf form beats u shitless.)
    High-everyone else

    DMC3
    All u need is Beowulf, Rebellion, Royal Guard, Kalina Ann, and whatever else u feel.
    Fight Fo' Dah Future.
  • roninwarrior24roninwarrior24 Custom Title Joined: Posts: 635
    Strike, in FF1 NES (and the FF1 part on PS1 FF Origins Normal difficulty), there are Agility and Intellegence modifiers. Even with that, though, I've realized that Red Mages are STILL better than White and Black Mages. The whole magic charges system is why. Oh, and isn't the SIlver Sword more powerful than the Were, Rune, and Coral swords? Doesn't matter, as those weapons suffice. I am now trying to play through as the "best" team (Fi/Fi/Fi/RM). Oh, and laugh at this pathetic FF6 tier list that I got on RPGclassics.com...

    1. Locke
    2. Sabin
    3. Celes
    4. Terra
    5. Gogo/Umaro???
    6. Shadow
    7. Egdar
    8. Gogo/Umaro???
    9. Relm
    10. Setzer
    11. Strago
    12. Mog
    13. Gau
    14. Cyan

    Sucks, right? Why is Sabin top in this list? Why is Gau low? Whoever did this list (some guy named Zeppelin from RPGClassics.com) is an idiot.

    EDIT: Wait a sec. INT doesn't do anything? That's weird. Stat's are like this...

    Str: Increases as your Damage increases.
    Agi: determines your Evade
    Int: ???
    Vit: Determines your HP
    Luck: Run rate

    Other stats are obviouis.
  • StrikeStrike Joined: Posts: 78
    Yeah, INT does nothing (as far as I know) in NES FF1. So there's no such thing as a Black Mage casting spells black magic "better" than a Red Mage; or the same thing about White Mages and white magic. What the pure mages do have over the Red Mage is more spell charges per level. But take the overall bigger picture that even with 1-2 more charges, it's still not enough to be used liberally in the high number of random battles you'll encounter. Therefore, most of the time, pure mages are just standing there in battle doing nothing (because they need to save their charge; essentially being dead weight). Or they force the party to run away from more than 50% of the battles you face to save their HP and spell charges for bosses.

    So luck effects running? Then I guess the Thief would be the best runner, but not by much. I just remembered that agility did not affect running, and most people who don't know how the game works will think that because the Thief has the most agility, he's the best runner. Truthfully, I never really noticed any class being a better "runner" than another. But I guess if it's luck based, then Thieves would win in that category (they still suck at everything else though).

    The Silver Sword is stonger than those listed, but the difference is really unnoticable, and definitely not worth your effort marching around killing Ogres at 200G a pop in order to save that much for a sword that isn't much stronger than the free findable ones, and will soon be replaced by Ice/Fire Sword and beyond. A Fighter with a Were Sword is still mauling everything in sight just as well as if he were equipped with a Silver Sword, only you didn't waste time, effort, and money going with the former option.

    Yeah, those FF6 tiers are just totally wrong. While I can agree on some level of Locke being placed high (I do admit to him being the only character in the game to reliably do 9999 x8; it's just at that point it's... okay, we're done with this issue); there's A LOT on that list that is fundamentally wrong. Which includes:

    - Umaro not being ranked last
    - Edgar getting middle tier rank; when Tools practically own the WoB and he's capable of 128% MBlock
    - Sabin at #2; Blitzes are essentially spells (since they're Magic Power based); and Sabin does not have a good MPower stat; Blitzes essentially only shine twice in the game (at the very beginning with Aura Bolt, and just when you get BumRush ASAP before you get all the other broken stuff in WoR)
    - Gau ranked second to last?! Rages are probably your biggest damage dealers in WoB; giving you essentially free level 2 and 3 spells before you even have access to anything remotely that close in spell power; need I mention Cat Scratch + Tempest/Wind God Gau; Nightshade's Charm cheapness; Intangir near invincibility
  • js2756js2756 Joined: Posts: 169
    G.O.T wrote:
    Seiken Densetsu 3
    God-Kevin (Werewolf form is teh truth.) Dark werewolf form beats u shitless.)
    High-everyone else

    You can't possibly believe that Duran is as good as Hawk. Frankly, it's even harder to tier this game because some classes are much better than others for individual characters and parties. I will agree that Kevin owns though.
  • roninwarrior24roninwarrior24 Custom Title Joined: Posts: 635
    Strike wrote:
    Yeah, those FF6 tiers are just totally wrong. While I can agree on some level of Locke being placed high (I do admit to him being the only character in the game to reliably do 9999 x8; it's just at that point it's... okay, we're done with this issue); there's A LOT on that list that is fundamentally wrong. Which includes:

    - Umaro not being ranked last
    - Edgar getting middle tier rank; when Tools practically own the WoB and he's capable of 128% MBlock
    - Sabin at #2; Blitzes are essentially spells (since they're Magic Power based); and Sabin does not have a good MPower stat; Blitzes essentially only shine twice in the game (at the very beginning with Aura Bolt, and just when you get BumRush ASAP before you get all the other broken stuff in WoR)
    - Gau ranked second to last?! Rages are probably your biggest damage dealers in WoB; giving you essentially free level 2 and 3 spells before you even have access to anything remotely that close in spell power; need I mention Cat Scratch + Tempest/Wind God Gau; Nightshade's Charm cheapness; Intangir near invincibility

    That's not why that person ranked Locke as #1. I just don't really understand why Locke is ranked #1. Oh, and the guy doesn't know that Sabin's blitzes are magical (as by saying that you should raise his Vigor, which is extremely off and wrong), and that Edgar is really good in that he can equip the best stuff along with Terra and Celes. He also does not know about Fixed Dice+Offering+Dice+Genji Glove (I hope I got that right), and ranks Setzer low because his slots supposedly "suck." Fool.

    What would the tiers of FF1 Dawn of Souls be. Something like this:

    Top: Thief/Ninja
    Upper: Fighter/Knight, Black Mage/Black Wizard
    Mid: White Mage/White Wizard, Black Belt/Master
    Low: Red Mage/Red Wizard

    I hope this is it. What could be the #1 team. Would it actually be the traditional Fi/Th/WM/BM or something else?
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    epsilon_ wrote:
    PSO (phantasy star online) v1 tiers..


    v1 weapon tiers

    GOD - Spread Needle. this weapon was rediculous. hunters could use it, so it did sick damage. it shoots out about 6 needles, like a shot, but it shoots as fast as a handgun. also had rediculous range, spread needles got hella nerfed in the gc version though.

    who cares about every other weapon? lol...

    To be fair, hardly anyone actually found a Spread Needle, at least in the DC version of PSO v.1. I agree it was beyond broken though if you throw all the weapons into the mix.

    If playing a "legit" game, a good mech gun was the best weapon in the game for Hunters, they had high enough ATA (or whatever the accucary category was called) so they don't miss that much and that high ATP (attack power) puts everyone to shame. Rapes any boss in seconds even on high levels if using one of the better mech guns + enemy bonuses (i.e. Dark 55%), there was a type that drains your health for more damage. IIRC it was easy to find in the shop. The human type hunters could just spam the special to do sick damage and use Resta to heal back their life (or just sit back and have the Force(s) type characters in your party heal you as you repeadedly use the special).
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    G.O.T wrote:
    Halo (weapons)
    God Tier- Rocket Launcher (if u can aim it correctly=its death.), Sniper Rifle
    High Tier-Pistol (The deadly 3-shot kill), Shotgun
    Mid Tier (in Order)- Plasma Rifle, Plasma Pistol, Assault Rifle
    Low-Tier-Needler, everything else


    Thought it'd be interesting to compare the changes for Halo 2 with some tiers:

    GOD tier:
    energy sword
    fuel rod cannon
    rocket launcher
    high to mid:
    sniper rifle
    particle beam rifle
    shotgun
    battle rifle
    brute plasma rifle
    covenant carbine
    needler
    plasma rifle
    mid to low:
    plasma pistol
    SMG
    low tier:
    sentinel beam
    brute shot ( before the update, it was shitty....haven't heard about after )
    magnum

    IMO, best weapon combo for dual-wielding: drop their shields with about three plasma shots w/ plasma rifle ( or a charged plasma pistol shot ) and use an SMG burst in chest to head area to kill them ( or switch to shotgun and own them Ash-style :tup: ).
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Final Fantasy Tactics Tiers (all generic Classes)

    These tiers are based off of my experience playing versus with my friends using pro-action replay and the debug code. No rare equips or power leveling. Jobs are ranked based off of their individual merits. Obviously Calculator sucks without having spells to pool so basically I'm rating each job based on their abilities being used to their full potential. Also basing this off af characters who do not have uber high Brave or faith.


    God Tier
    Calculator: Math Skill is easily abusable especially if you use the infinite turns trick with the quick spell. Even without it they own everything.

    Top Tier:
    Summoner: Huge damage that can not hurt your own team.
    Ninja: Huge range and speed that is only defeated by Golem.
    Mediator: The onoly way to resist their attacks is with finger guard, and you have to give up your passive skill for it. Otherwise, there is no way to resist it.
    Dancer: Nameless Dance is only defeated by Ribbon. Without a ribbon you are finished.

    High Tier
    Monk: Versitile and unblockable. They lack in power though
    Samurai: Huge damage an buff potential
    Bard: Great buffer and really good when given a skill that complements them like draw out.

    High-Mid Tier
    Knight: Great defense and attack but must rely on other classes to be really good.

    Mid Tier
    Black Mage: Good damage, but not as good as Summoner
    Time Mage: Good overall but not as good as other buff classes
    Chemist: Items are good and so are guns. They lack anything to put them over the top.
    Lancer: Jump is too unreliable, attacking from two spaces away is good.
    Oracle: Spell chances are too low.
    Geomancer: Doesn't do enough damage and status chances are too low.

    Mid-Low Tier
    Thief: Steal heart is good.
    Archer: Outclassed by guns and magic. Charge Sucks.
    Mime: Good for the infinite turns trick. That's it.
    White Mage: White Magic is less reliable than items or calculating.

    Low Tier:
    Squire: Nothing to help in combat. Accumulate is their only saving grace.
  • N-KenN-Ken dipthrongjr jr Joined: Posts: 2,935
    I couldnt even read all of the FF6 discussion, but if allowed to use glitch CYAN is pretty much Alpha and Omega tier, Terra Celes Edgar Locke is the pretty standard big 4 tt after that, because they can be in a party together and all have 128 Mblock(or maybe one only has 123 or so, I forget) Which makes you invincible. Plus steal is HUGE in LLGs for econos and such. The difficult thing about tiering FF6 is everyone pretty much evens out with decent high levels and good equips, thats why usually LLG is a better way to judge.

    EDIT: I think I still have the old Tier thread saved if someone wants it. That thread was classic:)
    SHIPP ITT: hey vietcong SHIPP ITT: nice job sunday
    vietcong01: tyshipp SHIPP ITT: np, hud
    vietcong01: ok gl
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    PsiPhi wrote:
    Metal Warriors (vs. mode)
    Drache
    Prometheus
    Nitro
    Havoc
    Spider
    Ballistic
    I almost flamed you for putting spider there, but then I saw drache and prometheus at the top of your list. sorry, but you don't know shit about MW
  • Clockw0rkClockw0rk ~!~!~! Joined: Posts: 607
    Shining Force II

    Top Tier
    Hero
    Peter <-- Phoenix
    Kazim(Sorcerer Version), Sarah(Master Monk Version), Slade

    Middle tier
    Everyone else

    That's all for now
    Depends on how you play it (ie what lvl you promote) but

    top = Master Monk Karna by far

    right after = Peter, Tyrin

    Clockw0rk
  • #reload#reload huh Joined: Posts: 853
    for FFVI...even though a lot of the talk was way back, i just thought i'd go through the tier list myself...

    (in order KIND OF, not sure about numbers 4-7 since they're really close)

    top tier

    1 - terra: best equips, female equips, 2nd highest magic, MORPH, reaches 128 m block pretty easily
    2 - celes: best equips, female equips, good magic, doesn't have to waste a relic slot for white cape (like terra does) since she starts off with 9%
    3 - edgar: best equips, tools are good for a big part of the wob
    4 - gau: rages > wob and a lot of wor, good speed, high starting m block, wind god gau
    5 - mog: maxes out defense EASILY, owns the illumina guy for free, jump, dances > wob
    6 - shadow: good speed, throw is really good (and cheap, money wise) damage, interceptor
    7 - relm: highest mother fucking magic (with a base of over 40, and +6 from what terra is), and 128 mblock easily, female equips

    mid tier

    8 - strago: lores are good for no magic games...
    9 - locke: speed isn't that great...steal is good for LLGs, and being able to equips swords is alright, but that's about it. can't really do decent damage through out the whole game
    10 - gogo: he'd be a lot better if it weren't for his shitty equips and not being able to raise stats
    11 - setzer: slots are really random. dice are really random. he's a good tank though (imp status, imp armor + fixed dice + offering)

    low tier -

    12 - sabin: he's a mage. his best damage is magic powered, and his magic is shitty. and he got shitty equips.
    13 - cyan: swordtechs take too long, shitty equips

    umaro tier -
    14 - umaro
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    N-Ken wrote:
    EDIT: I think I still have the old Tier thread saved if someone wants it. That thread was classic:)

    If you don't mind could send it to me, through PM or email, somehow? It was one of my favorite srk threads.
  • #reload#reload huh Joined: Posts: 853
    solid chrono, you forgot uber squire (which would proly be high mid)

    and i think ninja is top...speed growth is fucking humongous
  • N-KenN-Ken dipthrongjr jr Joined: Posts: 2,935
    Gen2000 wrote:
    If you don't mind could send it to me, through PM or email, somehow? It was one of my favorite srk threads.


    Yeah lemmee find that joint and Ill probably put it up tomorrow
    SHIPP ITT: hey vietcong SHIPP ITT: nice job sunday
    vietcong01: tyshipp SHIPP ITT: np, hud
    vietcong01: ok gl
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Thought it'd be interesting to compare the changes for Halo 2 with some tiers:

    GOD tier:
    energy sword
    fuel rod cannon
    rocket launcher
    high to mid:
    sniper rifle
    particle beam rifle
    shotgun
    battle rifle
    brute plasma rifle
    covenant carbine
    needler
    plasma rifle
    mid to low:
    plasma pistol
    SMG
    low tier:
    sentinel beam
    brute shot ( before the update, it was shitty....haven't heard about after )
    magnum

    IMO, best weapon combo for dual-wielding: drop their shields with about three plasma shots w/ plasma rifle ( or a charged plasma pistol shot ) and use an SMG burst in chest to head area to kill them ( or switch to shotgun and own them Ash-style :tup: ).
    Can't even stand Halo other than about 5 weapons and no double equips. FPS are crap. They don't have enough strategy or depth at all. Of course you also get unbalanced weapons.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Can't even stand Halo other than about 5 weapons and no double equips. FPS are crap. They don't have enough strategy or depth at all. Of course you also get unbalanced weapons.

    Saying that FPS games have no strategy or depth and that their mechanics are unbalanced is like saying the same about fighters, shmups or RPGs. Seriously, this thread doesn't need to degenerate into a thread designed just to bash on other genres than the one the site's based around.

    More to the point though, in FPS games there's always gonna be some weapons with abusable characteristics ( for instance, Half-Life 2's Gravity Gun has some disturbing usages I hear, I haven't played the game personally, but that's what I hear ). I mean hell, the Turok series has some weapons that pretty much break the game ( behold the Cerebral Bore that combos with any other weapon for instant death from 2... and the razor-boomerang-thingy ) , but it all boils down to player choice. You can play for fun or you can play to win without moral consequence, bottom line of any video game where more than one player is involved.
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