Tiers for non-fighting games?

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  • G.O.TG.O.T #1 Haggar fan Joined: Posts: 2,164
    Somebody give me a tier of Thousand Arms, Def Jam FFNY (i dont consider it a fighting game....its a party game), Digital Devil Saga, Gundam Seed-Never Ending Tomorrow, Puzzle Fighter, Power Stone 2, House of the Dead,

    AND THE GAME CALLED GEKIDO ON THE PS1.
    HHHHMMMMM....SRK.....DO U THINK YOULL BE ABLE TO FIND THAT OUT, HUUHHHUHHH!!!!!!!.............sorry bout' that...need to lay off the crack.
    Fight Fo' Dah Future.
  • Duy NguyenDuy Nguyen Thug life!!! Joined: Posts: 830
    Puzzle Fighter

    God Tier:
    Ken

    Top Tier:
    Donovan

    Mid Tier:
    The rest

    Shit Tier:
    Ryu

    Here's one for fun...Suikoden II.

    God Tier:
    McDohl

    Top Tier:
    Georg
    Viktor
    Pesmerga
    Clive
    Hero

    Then the rest...
  • OuroborusOuroborus plays 3s just to troll Joined: Posts: 7,215 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    actually suikoden 2 is more like this

    god tier:
    sheena
    killey

    both of them has above average stats for a character that has 3 rune slots. fury + double beat rune + double strike rune kills almost any enemy in one hit.

    top tier:
    mcdohl - awesome stats, damaging rune, great unite with hero
    hero - same as mcdohl but a tad weaker
    humphrey - just for the fact that once you get him via the matilda gates trick, you can breeze thru 60% of the game with ease. he joins you with a high level, high weapon level, and the best armor in the game (if you used suikoden 1 save file)
    ssf4ae tier list regarding Gen:

    D Proto: and where is Gen?
    oORYUOo: you cannot tier what you cannot see
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    These tiers are based off of my experience playing versus with my friends using pro-action replay and the debug code. No rare equips or power leveling. Jobs are ranked based off of their individual merits. Obviously Calculator sucks without having spells to pool so basically I'm rating each job based on their abilities being used to their full potential. Also basing this off af characters who do not have uber high Brave or faith.

    My friends and I used to do something similar years ago. We originally use one of the randomized generic groups (which were at level 50) and used their default skillsets and job points. We currently use a set of 16 generic classes that were all set to level 99 as a squire (8 male and 8 female) with maxed jobs, Serpentarius zodiac sign, and default brave/faith. We also banned math skill/draw out/blade grasp/non-purchasable items (except the Genji Armor and Yoichi Bow).

    What levels do you typically fight in? We used to play in 50 (St. Murond Temple), but ended up sticking with 47 (Zarghidas Trade City - Aeris/th stage) for its distance and the diverse height.

    We want to try a match with nothing banned (but no special classes/characters). The age of this Gameshark won't allow for an easy way to fill the inventory with items, though.
  • StanmanStanman STUNMAN! Joined: Posts: 1,343
    How would you tier characters of dw3? I personally liked that one better than 4 and 5...


    Definite top
    Gan Ning
    Lu Bu
    Cao Cao?
    Lu Xun?
    After EVO 2k9 finals, I gave Justin Wong a hat that said "Honorary Wong Brother".
    I think he threw it away.
  • MagnificoMagnifico Joined: Posts: 840
    felineki wrote:
    Hammer Bros. Suit Mario is God Tier. Hammer that shit down!

    yeah, but the tanooki suit is the only suit in the game that can kill those little rotating light enemies =)
  • EphidelEphidel Old Man SRK Joined: Posts: 14,907 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I saw all the tiers to SOF2, so I decided to post my thoughts...

    It goes like this damnit!

    1. Blaze
    2. Axel
    3. Max
    4. Skate

    Blaze - All of Blaze's stats were even in SOF2 - It's only right to make her the top selection in this game because she was good at just about everything. Evenhanded, when you think about Axel's stats, he can't jump - so she should be consider the best in SOF2 stats wise.

    Axel - Axel would of been number 1 had he improved his jumping ability in SOF1. His stats are great and his fighting tech is outstanding, but still - he had a one star rating in his jumping ability if I remember. He has an excellent special, but when compared to Blaze's special, it's a lackluster - All these things and more puts him at number 2.

    Max - Max of course is strong, we all know that right? Well, even though he can dish out major damage and overpower characters in an instant - his moves lag big time. Big/Slow, that's a great weakness in Max. In addition to that, he's a big target because of his size - so enemies love picking him off until his health is gone. His special's are good, but not great like Axel's or Blaze's.

    Skate - Skate's fast and jumps well, but he's so weak he can't do much against tougher enemies. His special is the hardest to connect in the game, and he takes mad damage because he has no defense at all. This puts him last in SOF2, he just isn't the type of character to play in harder mode settings like manga. Only great to use on easier settings.... ( Maybe if that )

    Done Ranting.

    :karate:
    Fightcade: Ephidel
    Steam: Ephidel

  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    TRAVIS wrote:
    I saw all the tiers to SOF2, so I decided to post my thoughts...

    It goes like this damnit!

    1. Blaze
    2. Axel
    3. Max
    4. Skate

    Blaze - All of Blaze's stats were even in SOF2 - It's only right to make her the top selection in this game because she was good at just about everything. Evenhanded, when you think about Axel's stats, he can't jump - so she should be consider the best in SOF2 stats wise.

    Axel - Axel would of been number 1 had he improved his jumping ability in SOF1. His stats are great and his fighting tech is outstanding, but still - he had a one star rating in his jumping ability if I remember. He has an excellent special, but when compared to Blaze's special, it's a lackluster - All these things and more puts him at number 2.

    Max - Max of course is strong, we all know that right? Well, even though he can dish out major damage and overpower characters in an instant - his moves lag big time. Big/Slow, that's a great weakness in Max. In addition to that, he's a big target because of his size - so enemies love picking him off until his health is gone. His special's are good, but not great like Axel's or Blaze's.

    Skate - Skate's fast and jumps well, but he's so weak he can't do much against tougher enemies. His special is the hardest to connect in the game, and he takes mad damage because he has no defense at all. This puts him last in SOF2, he just isn't the type of character to play in harder mode settings like manga. Only great to use on easier settings.... ( Maybe if that )

    Done Ranting.

    :karate:

    Blaze is near bottom BECAUSE she is average. Speed does not really matter in beatemups; a good friend of mine said that beatemups award crowd control. Not only is Blaze not as powerful as Axel or Max, she does not have good crowd control. As well, she has shitty specials.

    Max is top because of his great specials, damaging moves, and excellent range. These all add up to very good crowd control. Max's moves, though slow when done singly (as in, tapping attack once), buffer very well (mashing attack). Axel is second, because though he doesn't have as good of crowd control as Max, he does have the Grand Upper/Bare Knuckle (whatever you want to call it), the best special in the game because of its excellent range, damage, and abusability. Blaze is like a weaker Axel with crappier specials. Skate is by far bottom tier, he's a weakass with quite possibly the shittiest normals AND specials in the game. His range is terrible as well.

    I could have SWORN we already established this :rolleyes:
  • cam347cam347 Joined: Posts: 841
    Duy Nguyen wrote:
    Puzzle Fighter

    God Tier:
    Ken

    Top Tier:
    Donovan

    Mid Tier:
    The rest

    Shit Tier:
    Ryu

    I disagree, Dan & Chun-Li are bottom tiers, Ryu is above both of them.
    XBL- FKE SNK
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    FFIII:

    Top:

    Ultros (Seafood soup, Tenticle, Killing Bannon)
    Shadow (Throw, Speed, Good Magic)
    Terra (#2Magic Pwr, Morph)
    Celes (#3Magic Pwr, Runic, Good attack)

    Mid:

    Relm (#1 Magic, shitty sketch, good speed)
    Sabin( BLITZ, speed, power, just not too great with magic... Genjin Glove + Offering)
    Edgar (Tools, good attack, good speed, decent magic)
    Locke (Speed, capture, good magic)
    Gau (No control, good magic, good M.Def,)
    Cyan (Sword teach, good attack, decent magic but slow)
    Strago (#4 magic, good lore, slow and weak, no physical attacks)
    Mog (Moogle Charm, good magic, decent attack, D Boots)

    Bottom:
    Setzer (Shitty slots, decent speed, decent magic, low attack)
    Gogo ( Cant use espers to level up stats, so bad speed, attack, health, magic and defence but can cast ultima for 3000 damage at level 99 for no cost :tup: )
    Umaro (No control, but strong)


    The thing about Terra in Morph is that my Terra would do 9999 (not in esper form) with Ultima....so whats the point? But if all chars are around level 50 with all magics I'd say Terra owns...but I do love Shadow and always stack him by equipping Raiden to up his Vigor and who ever gives him magic power and who ever gives him speed. I'll have to pull up my chars stats.
    My team is: Shadow (Genjin Glove/Offering) Terra (Gem Box/Economizer) Celes (Economizer/Earrings or something that raises magic) and Relm (Economizer/Earrings or something that raises magic). Beating Kefeka or any boss for that matter was so easy I don't even wanna talk about it. OK I do. Entering with all my chars at level 99 with 9999 hp 999 mp, the girls had stacked magic where Shadow was more Speed/Attack with a bit of magic for healing since he was the fastest. So the battle starts, Shadow summons...uhh can't remember but it casts Regen on all. Terra transforms, Celes and Relm summon, Golem and Zone Seek. When Terra transforms she casts Haste2. After that the fun starts. I cast Ultima x2 with Terra, Shadow attacks, where Celes and Relm also cast Ultima . While pummeling the boss with my magic and attacks I don't have to worry at all about HP. Golem absorbs all physical attack where Zoneseeks shell makes enemy's magic attacks worthless. And even if they do manage to scratch my characters Regen is on anyway. The fight is usually done before Golem wears off. I wish they'd make a reallllly reallllly hard secret boss, to test players real skills after the game:tup:


    Obscure:

    Top:

    Ashley (Special Double Attack, although slow her special and health makes up for it)
    Josh (Actually is faster then Kenny, even when he uses his special, special helps you find alot of ammo and health)

    Mid:
    Kenny (Very strong and special allows him to run)

    Bottom:
    Stan "The man" (Special ability is usless cuz everybody can do it just a second or 2 slower, he is very slow and has decent health)
    Shannon ( Slow, weak and special ability is so dumb because the game is very straight foward and there is no need for a guide. She can heal a bit more then the rest even though medkits heal full and they are what you use for the majority of the game for healing)
  • EphidelEphidel Old Man SRK Joined: Posts: 14,907 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Blaze is near bottom BECAUSE she is average. Speed does not really matter in beatemups; a good friend of mine said that beatemups award crowd control. Not only is Blaze not as powerful as Axel or Max, she does not have good crowd control. As well, she has shitty specials.

    Max is top because of his great specials, damaging moves, and excellent range. These all add up to very good crowd control. Max's moves, though slow when done singly (as in, tapping attack once), buffer very well (mashing attack). Axel is second, because though he doesn't have as good of crowd control as Max, he does have the Grand Upper/Bare Knuckle (whatever you want to call it), the best special in the game because of its excellent range, damage, and abusability. Blaze is like a weaker Axel with crappier specials. Skate is by far bottom tier, he's a weakass with quite possibly the shittiest normals AND specials in the game. His range is terrible as well.

    I could have SWORN we already established this :rolleyes:



    Speed does matter in harder settings. Power isn't everything to consider, and usually a tap of the A button ( Special Tap without D-pad support ) would get ANY character out of a crowd of people in this game. Blaze's fireball special is not only great to use, but it has lingering effects ( meaning it still damages after it dissolves a bit ). How is that "shitty"? Axel's most damaging special must be connected close range, Blaze by far has the advantage....

    I like Max too, but again, he's slow and has lag combo combinations. Considering that, he shouldn't be ranked with Axel or Blaze in harder settings ( where the game is suppose to be played ). Of course, I'm only comparing all these things from my own personal experiences and the rating the game has on each character.

    EDIT: Fuck, I hope you guys went through the Hard Modes and Manga. Everybody who did should KNOW what I'm talking about...
    Fightcade: Ephidel
    Steam: Ephidel

  • CaliScrubCaliScrub Coca-Cola Junkie Joined: Posts: 28
    SOR2 notes:

    When Icecap was talking about "specials", I don't think he was talking about the A button moves, but the F,F+B move, and I don't really think there's any denying that Axel's (Grand Upper) is the best. Blaze's F,F+B move, on the other hand, tends to get you murdered. Granted, Axel's forward+A move really sucks...

    As far as the harder modes go, I've yet to beat Mania on default lives (which I think is 3?), but I've beaten it on Hardest many, many times when I used to play, and in that mode I have to give Axel the nod over Blaze. Grand Upper is just too good of a crutch. As for Max, I'm not sure where I'd put him tier-wise, but I WOULD rank him as the most fun character to use.
  • cam347cam347 Joined: Posts: 841
    anyone got tiers for the TMNT games lol, X-Men Mutant Apocalypse or X-Men The Arcade Game?
    XBL- FKE SNK
  • SupremoSupremo Joined: Posts: 57 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Cadillacs and Dinosaurs (Capcom beat'em up)

    Mustapha is top tier in this game... :D

    About Streets of Rage 2, the user ParryAll is right.
  • ProfessorSProfessorS Laimbeer Tier Joined: Posts: 184
    TMNT for NES

    Don: Bo destroys all, the fact you can even hit things behind you makes it even better.
    Leo: Not quite the power nor the range of Don but his katanas have a better arc
    Mike: Similar to Leo but shorter range and can't attack downward.
    Raph: Pathetic, I only use him to soak up damage in the dam level.

    Of course, any Turtle can be good if he has lots of scrolls.
    Av by Xplict91
  • ProfessorSProfessorS Laimbeer Tier Joined: Posts: 184
    Since I'm on a TMNT buzz...

    TMNT III: The Manhattan Project

    Raph: Turtle Drill is Godly, fast and it's safe to use so you can spam it when low on health.
    Leo: His special hits multiple times which is awesome , but he's vulneralbe when he comes out of it. Plus it doesn't move.
    Mike: The Kangaroo kick is underrated it looks goofy but if you're good you can get multiple hits out of it.
    Don: His special isn't necessarily bad, just not as good as the others.

    TMNT IV: Turtles in Time

    Mike: He's a little slow, but I think his higher power rating gives him the edge over the others.
    Don: Like Mike, he's slow but range really helps out. His main problem is that it's hard to combo off his initial attack if you hit the opponent from far away.
    Leo: All around average, nothing bad about him but nothing outstanding either.
    Raph: He's quick, but he's weak and can't take a shit. Plus his special move takes a ton of energy to use.

    Super Mario RPG

    Toadstool: You heard me. With the frying pan equipped, not only can she repair damage but she can really dish it out too. The Lazy Shell turns her into the ultimate tank.
    Geno: A very well rounded range of special attacks, plus high normal attack power and good speed. Too bad his defense is low.
    Bowser: Very high regular attack, plus high defense and HP. His specials sucks damagewise, but Terrorize is great for scaring your enemies(drops their attack and defense by 1/2!)
    Mario: Mario isn't necessarily bad, he just lacks variety though his jumps are really useful.
    Mallow: The game treats you like he should be your black mage. So why doesn't he have an Ultima? Some of his spells are useful but he doesn't have anything uber, thus he kinda sucks.
    Av by Xplict91
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    I'd put Mario above Bowser.
    He does a shitload of damage with the lazy shell, and his specials are more useful if you're good at super jumping.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • kainzerokainzero kimchee ii darou Joined: Posts: 437
    cam347 wrote:
    I disagree, Dan & Chun-Li are bottom tiers, Ryu is above both of them.
    in Puzzle Fighter theory...
    the best way to win the game is to build up one huge attack and then unleash it, because small attacks or even mid-strength attacks just give the other player more ammo. you want to play so that your attack either annihilates them or puts them extremely close to death.

    with that said, Dan escapes bottom tier, and he's a very luck-based character. if he hits you hard and you don't have a red-breaker, you're dead. with other characters, you can eliminate some gems if you have any breakers.

    nor would Ken be "god tier." he's better but just by playing him he's not zomg unbeatable. some people i know can even counter his build pattern. he's better, but it's not like you pick him you have a definite advantage over everyone else.
  • Duy NguyenDuy Nguyen Thug life!!! Joined: Posts: 830
    ^You think so?

    Because Ken's drop can seriously fuck up anyone whether it is a mid or high drop. The only way Dan can win is if he sets things perfectly and go for a huge attack since he drops double the amount. I think the only person who can small drop and be effective at it is Donovan. Yellow and Reds are really annoying if you just keep spamming low and mid drops.
  • kainzerokainzero kimchee ii darou Joined: Posts: 437
    i'm not too much of an authority, since i don't really play (i prefer puyo but i'm not even that good at it), but one of my friends usually just tells me a lot about theory since he plays pretty regularly... i think he racked up a 30 win streak at Anime Expo.

    anyway, the reason a mid drop doesn't work is because when you build, you build an attack pile and an escape pile, and in the event of a mid drop you can use the escape pile to access the attack, or something like that. he explained it to me before because i had the same question.

    but yea, it's pretty cool how dan isn't really low tier =P
  • TizocTizoc Joined: Posts: 11,406
    Any Disgaea & Puyo Pop Fever tiers?

    Final Fantasy IX tiers:
    TOP:
    Vivi (Magic>all)

    HIGH:
    Stiener, Amarant, Zidane

    MID-HIGH:
    Freya

    MID:
    Garnet/Dagger, Eiko (Give the ladies a racket & they're death count will rise!)

    LOW:
    Quina

    Quina's attack power can be very a lot sometimes, only her Blue Magic can be useful, however not many of them are.
    "You have to be a badass if you ride a giant seahorse." -Grant Morrison on why Aquaman is badass
    "Game Over, Snively. ...Thanks for playing." -Dr. Eggman, Sonic Universe #40
    "I'm stinking of animal blood...As of now I'm a vegetarian. And this is Bat-cow." -Damian Wayne
  • G.O.TG.O.T #1 Haggar fan Joined: Posts: 2,164
    cam347 wrote:
    anyone got tiers for the TMNT games lol, X-Men Mutant Apocalypse or X-Men The Arcade Game?


    X-Men (SNES)-
    God-Beast (high damage potential, and invincibility frames in attacks), Wolverine (Dive attack has mad priority. Tornado Claw is very powerful in a combo)
    High-Cyclops has so-so normal attacks. Optic Blast is the strongest special in the game. But has terrible startup.
    Mid-Gambit (balanced) nothing special Kinetic cards are good against bosses. Enemis tend to overwhelm Gambit.
    Low_ Psylocke has speed....thats it. too bad it aint MVC2.

    son......
    Fight Fo' Dah Future.
  • roninwarrior24roninwarrior24 Custom Title Joined: Posts: 635
    From what I've played of Atelier Iris, Klein pwns all. I don't know if this ever changes, but if not, than he is the ONLY character that can use mana items and do mana synthesis. That's enough to put him in god tier IMO, because Mana stuff are VERY useful.
  • Return of ShikiReturn of Shiki Your favorite game sucks Joined: Posts: 4,411
    Any Disgaea & Puyo Pop Fever tiers?

    Final Fantasy IX tiers:
    TOP:
    Vivi (Magic>all)

    HIGH:
    Stiener, Amarant, Zidane

    MID-HIGH:
    Freya

    MID:
    Garnet/Dagger, Eiko (Give the ladies a racket & they're death count will rise!)

    LOW:
    Quina

    Quina's attack power can be very a lot sometimes, only her Blue Magic can be useful, however not many of them are.

    Jesus Christ, this couldn't be more wrong...
    If you listen to fools, the mob rules...
  • ParryAllParryAll Dangerous Posts Joined: Posts: 3,311
    TRAVIS wrote:
    I saw all the tiers to SOF2, so I decided to post my thoughts...

    It goes like this damnit!

    1. Blaze
    2. Axel
    3. Max
    4. Skate

    Blaze - All of Blaze's stats were even in SOF2 - It's only right to make her the top selection in this game because she was good at just about everything. Evenhanded, when you think about Axel's stats, he can't jump - so she should be consider the best in SOF2 stats wise.
    :karate:
    The star stats at the character select screen don't mean jack shit. No, she is not good at just about everything, she has many glaring weakness' that I explained in detail in my last post. Her f.f.p special is the worst out of the top 3. In fact, it is complete shit. Her regular combo is the worst: bad priority, poor damage, poor reach. Finally, she has the least damage potential of the three off of grabs. Her only saving graces are her knife and her p.+j. special. However, I'd rather have Max and a pipe than Blaze and a knife any day, and her p.+j. does no damage and isn't even really that good (though better than Max's and Axel's attack button + jump button attacks).
    Axel - Axel would of been number 1 had he improved his jumping ability in SOF1. His stats are great and his fighting tech is outstanding, but still - he had a one star rating in his jumping ability if I remember. He has an excellent special, but when compared to Blaze's special, it's a lackluster - All these things and more puts him at number 2.

    Lol, his ability to jump puts him below Blaze? What are you smoking? You're saying that because he can't jump as high it outweighs everything else? Axel destroys Blaze in every single category that matters. Her jump attacks aren't even any better than Axel's, save for her neutral jump+attack, which has better reach, but big fucking deal. With that said Axel's jump-in down+attack in the air, is way better than Blazes. So there!
    Max - Max of course is strong, we all know that right? Well, even though he can dish out major damage and overpower characters in an instant - his moves lag big time. Big/Slow, that's a great weakness in Max. In addition to that, he's a big target because of his size - so enemies love picking him off until his health is gone. .

    Max's combo does insane damage and has great priority. He can clear a room with it while if Blaze tried the same, she'd be jabbed to death out of it. Axel can just grand upper his way through.

    Also, if Max grabs, he can jump and throw the character at the crowd, not to mention land sick damage off of grabs. Blaze has a harder time getting in on people because her j.d.attack isn't as good as Axel's or Max's. Axel and Max can muscle their way through crowds but Blaze and Skate have to runaway, it's a fact.

    Max always has the ability to slide out of a crowd. His slide move, while weak, makes him just as mobile as the other 2. Blaze would have to, what, jump out? Which is risky.

    While the developers intended for Max's speed to be his downfall, anyone who knows the game knows that it isn't a factor at all. Maybe the game should have been more properly balanced, his slide or specials nerfed, but as it stands his lack of speed is hardly a factor and he's the best character in the game. I still like Axel better but I can't deny Max is top tier.
    His special's are good, but not great like Axel's or Blaze's
    Wrong again. Blazes specials and supers are complete shit. Axel and Max completely own her in this department. Refer to my last post for a detailed description why.
    Skate - Skate's fast and jumps well, but he's so weak he can't do much against tougher enemies. His special is the hardest to connect in the game, and he takes mad damage because he has no defense at all. This puts him last in SOF2, he just isn't the type of character to play in harder mode settings like manga. Only great to use on easier settings.... ( Maybe if that )
    Agreed.
    "Third Strike just has that flow which somehow alienates you from your surroundings and really plugs your brain into the match your playing and your able to comprehend so many different situations and mind games and mixups in such a limited amount of time and all this without even thinking" - Nubilous

    "[3rd Strike] makes you feel like the character is an extension of yourself when you get good enough." - AzureWolf

    "Street Fighter is now like The Simpsons. It's been bad longer than it's been good." -ParryAll
  • KyokujiKyokuji Needlessly Perverted Joined: Posts: 2,926
    Streets of Rage.
    Serious business.
    "Getting herpes on your face is not a cost-saving solution."
  • MechanicaMechanica elias the flyest Joined: Posts: 6,252
    Anybody here played Destrega? Sort of not a fighting game. :bgrin:
    KOForever WHY IS 14 SO UGLY whyyyy is alex's neutral stance so ugly
  • KayinKayin rawr Joined: Posts: 2,115
    Mechanica wrote:
    Anybody here played Destrega? Sort of not a fighting game. :bgrin:
    I dunno how the fuck that game is tierd, but it's prolly mad broken somewhere.

    But it's still fun as hell nonetheless.
    "Games improve execution? Really? I thought the only way to improve execution is to post retarded questions about how to use a stick in tech talk." - Starcade RIP
  • TrueSephirothTrueSephiroth Joined: Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Strike wrote:
    It's situational how you should look at characters for each game. In a game like FF6, if you tier them when they are all level 99 god-characters, all you're tiering is who provides the most overkill. At that point, a tier like that wouldn't give any practical analysis on the character himself/herself.

    But no one's stopping you from doing it that way if you wanted to. I just think it's rather pointless to determine who can do 9999 x8 versus who can do 9999 x4; or decide who has the best defense when all attacks are being blocked or do 1 damage.

    That's garbage, your just contradicting yourself, going from onething to another. What the hell are you talking about, a Tier Listing is about displaying a characters FULL potential am I right? Isn't lvl 99 full potential? Isn't wearing the best equips you can get full potential?...because quite frankly, in a game like Final Fantasy VI, at full potential, the individual abilities of ALL the characters are basically trash in the end, you can say all you want about this character can do this, this character can do that, but ultimately, in the end, it's who deals the most damage the quickest.

    Even look at FFVII onward to FFX, its following the same trend of who does the most damage the fastest and quickest are the best, FFVII, it's Cloud(OmniSlash owns and can deal more damage then even KOR on certain occassion, like individual enemies, also it hits two more times than KOR), FFVIII, it's Squall(LionHeart Owns everything period, nothing can even come near its damage potential, add Renzozuken with it's damage too and it deals more damage than even Cloud's famed OmniSlash from FFVII), the list goes on. In Final Fantasy VI, individual abilities are useless at full potential, I understand what your trying to imply, but if your stating what you mean, than your really not conjuring up a tier listing, your stating a "ability listing" because at full potential, the abilities of character individuals in FFVI mean jack.

    On the Tiering for Streets of Rage, I haven't played that for the longest time, but for me, and my opinion, I feel that Axel was the best character within the game, his specials where the best, imo, the >+A owned and had huge damage potential, infact from what I remember, the most, and his standing A owned as well, too good. Max is a powerhouse, anyone who says he isn't good is missing a few marbles, his throws take off way too much to say that they aren't qualified, his specials are excellent as well, both are very useful. I remember one of his throws that I would love to do, and it would destroy Mr. X in no time, it was his back break, or atomic drop, whatever it was, it was the grab where you would grab them from the back, and do that back breaker type move, took off chunks of damage.

    However, Axel's >+A took off more than even Max's back grab, so yeah, anyways, I would put Axel at Top Tier for sure.

    For me the top tiers are

    Top Tier
    Axel
    Max
    "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." - Vince Lombardi

    Street Fighter II Hyper Fighting - Ryu
  • TizocTizoc Joined: Posts: 11,406
    Jesus Christ, this couldn't be more wrong...
    How?
    "You have to be a badass if you ride a giant seahorse." -Grant Morrison on why Aquaman is badass
    "Game Over, Snively. ...Thanks for playing." -Dr. Eggman, Sonic Universe #40
    "I'm stinking of animal blood...As of now I'm a vegetarian. And this is Bat-cow." -Damian Wayne
  • TrueSephirothTrueSephiroth Joined: Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Now, I don't know if any of you play this, but I'm going to try and add my views on Lineage 2, the reason why I would need more help on this, is because I have not played all of the classes, which is the reasons why :P.

    Silver Rangers: Imo, one of the most overpowered, if not the most overpowered character in L2. Has the ability to do 7k+ criticals, which is enough to kill many of the other classes in one hit, they can cast haste upon themselves, and play a runaway whore, makes them extremely difficult to kill, their most balanced battle from what I've seen is confronting another SR, or a Magic Caster.

    Sorcerer/Elemental Summoner/Spell Howler - Ludicriously powerful magic summons, although the SH has the most powerful of all, and each are gifted in their own right, but they are all ridiculous, able to put you to sleep, or silence you, then proceed to summon magic upon you.

    Dark Avenger - Now, I heard in C3 they have been toned, but I haven't played one in C3 yet, so I really don't know, but from what I remember, shield stun made them powerful, along with the ability to summon the black panther to help them attack you too. SS, then beat you down, repeat, and it's game.

    Plains Walker - Quick, able to hit numerous times, but most importantly, the critical rates that come along with those hits, they are extremely good, and I've heard from some people that they can even fight SR's reasonably well.

    Now these are from what I've know that are pretty good, I don't have a specific rating for them, but I would definetly put SR as Top Tier for sure, that one I know and have experienced getting owned first hand numerously, if anyone else has more knowledge on this, please post:party:
    "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." - Vince Lombardi

    Street Fighter II Hyper Fighting - Ryu
  • StanmanStanman STUNMAN! Joined: Posts: 1,343
    Not that my opinion matters at this point anymore but as i recalled from way back when, Max was the best character from SOR2 as well. That weird block glitch took out bosses in like one hit! How cool is that!
    After EVO 2k9 finals, I gave Justin Wong a hat that said "Honorary Wong Brother".
    I think he threw it away.
  • Iczer oneIczer one chillin' at Buxi Bar Joined: Posts: 216
    How?

    Because Quina is the most broken/useful character in FF9 and far from being low ^^ (can deal 9999 wih Frog Drop + best healing skills).

    Freya is awesome too, easiest 9999 to get with Dragon Crest (which is much in this game considering that even the best bosses don't have more than 60.000 HP) + useful gimmicks.


    IMO those two are the best charas beside Zidane. Vivi is good too though, maybe 4th.
    always coming back
  • Return of ShikiReturn of Shiki Your favorite game sucks Joined: Posts: 4,411
    Iczer one wrote:
    Because Quina is the most broken/useful character in FF9 and far from being low ^^ (can deal 9999 wih Frog Drop + best healing skills).

    Freya is awesome too, easiest 9999 to get with Dragon Crest (which is much in this game considering that even the best bosses don't have more than 60.000 HP) + useful gimmicks.


    IMO those two are the best charas beside Zidane. Vivi is good too though, maybe 4th.

    Thank you
    Even look at FFVII onward to FFX, its following the same trend of who does the most damage the fastest and quickest are the best, FFVII, it's Cloud(OmniSlash owns and can deal more damage then even KOR on certain occassion, like individual enemies, also it hits two more times than KOR), FFVIII, it's Squall(LionHeart Owns everything period, nothing can even come near its damage potential, add Renzozuken with it's damage too and it deals more damage than even Cloud's famed OmniSlash from FFVII), the list goes on.

    Dammit, why do people STILL not realize Omnislash is not the best offensive Limit Break in the game?

    FF VII Offensive Limit Break Rankings:

    1st: Cid Highwind's...uh, Highwind (18 hits at 11/16x Base Power)
    2nd: Barret Wallace's Ungarmax (18 hits at 1/2x Base Power)
    3rd: Cloud Strife's Omnislash (15 hits at 3/4x Base Power)
    4rd: Yuffie Kisaragi's Doom of The Living (15 hits at 5/8x Base Power)
    5th: Red XIII's Stardust Ray (10 hits at 5/8x Base Power)

    For a frame of reference, KotR is the strongest attack that can be mimed (13 hits).
    See, once your characters get high enough that all their attacks do 9999 damage, the only thing that's important is how many hits you can get in per command.

    In FFVIII, by the same token Rinoa's Wishing Star does more hits than Squall's Lionheart and is thus better. Zell's Armageddon Fist can potentially do more damage than either one of those...it just takes a LONG damn time and fingers that don't get tired easily.
    If you listen to fools, the mob rules...
  • DonkusDonkus Time Marches On Joined: Posts: 504 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    KoR is not the strongest attack that can be mimed. If this were true, it would be impossible to do speedruns against the weapons since KoR takes like 5.6 hours to complete one casting.
    GOD BLESS THE RING
  • TrueSephirothTrueSephiroth Joined: Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Thank you



    Dammit, why do people STILL not realize Omnislash is not the best offensive Limit Break in the game?

    FF VII Offensive Limit Break Rankings:

    1st: Cid Highwind's...uh, Highwind (18 hits at 11/16x Base Power)
    2nd: Barret Wallace's Ungarmax (18 hits at 1/2x Base Power)
    3rd: Cloud Strife's Omnislash (15 hits at 3/4x Base Power)
    4rd: Yuffie Kisaragi's Doom of The Living (15 hits at 5/8x Base Power)
    5th: Red XIII's Stardust Ray (10 hits at 5/8x Base Power)

    For a frame of reference, KotR is the strongest attack that can be mimed (13 hits).
    See, once your characters get high enough that all their attacks do 9999 damage, the only thing that's important is how many hits you can get in per command.

    In FFVIII, by the same token Rinoa's Wishing Star does more hits than Squall's Lionheart and is thus better. Zell's Armageddon Fist can potentially do more damage than either one of those...it just takes a LONG damn time and fingers that don't get tired easily.

    Wait wait, how did you make Cid and Barrets Limit break, take off more than Clouds, are signifying that they where all doing 9999 per hit? Because I'm alittle lost and confused by your 11/16x Power, I would've prefered, the amount of damage that is dealt. I know for a fact, that with Ultima Weapon equipped, Cloud will do 9999 almost guarantee if your on a high enough lvl, and once you go beyond a surpassed lvl, it's 9999 guaranteed, as long as Cloud is close to 9999HP. Now I've power lvled Cid, lvl 99, and even then, I've never seen him deal 9999 per hit with his Limit Break, as well as Barret's Limit Break. Also, KoTR is great, but I wouldn't deem it stronger than OmniSlash, especially particularly at a singled opponent, I agree Mime+KotR is great, however, it takes ludicriously long to deal 13X9999 hits, the only place that I could see this being useful is up against the weapons, that's it, against every other singled opponent, why even bother. I'd rather spam Omnislash, which has an even greater potential, and when you summon Omnislash, it is guaranteed to come out first.

    Also, I've maxed out Rinoa, and she does not do deal as much damage as Squall, she does more hits depending upon her speed, and I've maxed her speed out, yet even by maxing her out in other categories, I've never seen her be able to outbeat Squall in damage potential. Zell's "could" be "more" damaging in a sence, however, the randomness of how many seconds you get makes it very unreliable, and he also does not deal 9999 every hit, unless it is his final hit. Squall's LionHeart, although random as well, when it does come out however, it is guaranteed 9999 on everysingle hit, no matter what, because it ignores enemies defense.
    "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." - Vince Lombardi

    Street Fighter II Hyper Fighting - Ryu
  • shadowcharlieshadowcharlie ★ஜ۩dip۞set۩ஜ★ Joined: Posts: 9,169 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    who cares cid is statisticly better than cloud any wayz XD
    bust my gun at the sun just to sit in the shade~
    ἐξίσταται γὰρ πάντ' ἀπ' ἀλλήλων δίχα
  • StrikeStrike Joined: Posts: 78
    That's garbage, your just contradicting yourself, going from onething to another. What the hell are you talking about, a Tier Listing is about displaying a characters FULL potential am I right? Isn't lvl 99 full potential? Isn't wearing the best equips you can get full potential?...because quite frankly, in a game like Final Fantasy VI, at full potential, the individual abilities of ALL the characters are basically trash in the end, you can say all you want about this character can do this, this character can do that, but ultimately, in the end, it's who deals the most damage the quickest.

    Even look at FFVII onward to FFX, its following the same trend of who does the most damage the fastest and quickest are the best, FFVII, it's Cloud(OmniSlash owns and can deal more damage then even KOR on certain occassion, like individual enemies, also it hits two more times than KOR), FFVIII, it's Squall(LionHeart Owns everything period, nothing can even come near its damage potential, add Renzozuken with it's damage too and it deals more damage than even Cloud's famed OmniSlash from FFVII), the list goes on. In Final Fantasy VI, individual abilities are useless at full potential, I understand what your trying to imply, but if your stating what you mean, than your really not conjuring up a tier listing, your stating a "ability listing" because at full potential, the abilities of character individuals in FFVI mean jack.

    What's garbage is you resurrecting the argument again after more than two months has already passed. We're just arguing two different things. You seem to think a tier listing of level 99 FFVI god-characters has actual meaning and that ideally one should only judge the characters at that calibur. I've repeatedly said that it's fine to do so, but my main point was a tier listing such as that would have little actual merit or worth. At that point, nothing poses a challenge to you. The end result of Locke hitting for 9999 x8 is essentially the same as any other character hitting 9999 x4; as either would be overkill. The analogy I tried to show you was tiering which of these methods: atom bomb, missile, tank, gun is most useful in killing a ant? Sure, one could easily make a case for the most destructive weapon, similarly to how you keep insisting on the greatness of Locke 9999 x8. But the bigger picture is that a tiering at that point is ridiculous in and of itself. There's never only one "proper" way to tier an RPG, especially one like FF6. Do you take Esper bonuses into account? Do you take Merit Award into account? Do you take glitches into account? Tiering at 99 is the easier, but it's not very informative, and it's definitely not the only way to tier that game.

    On doing damage quickly, if that's a reference to Locke's "speed" being some sort of superior asset in FFVI, I have already extensively covered why Locke's speed is quite overrated. Active Time Battle takes into account battle animation, and thus while Locke may have the chance to strike first, unless you purposely take time out and power-level, Locke isn't doing anything spectacular that first strike that someone else couldn't do better just 1 or 2 seconds later. And anyone who thinks Locke's high speed is going to allow him to "lap" other characters in battle and gain extra turns really doesn't know how the battle system of FFVI works.

    Your analysis on the multi-hitting attacks of FFVII+ in comparison to FFVI is flawed. See, while Cloud is doing Ominslash for 9999 x15; Squall's Lionheart doing 9999 x20-something; Tidus/Wakka/Passedo doing 9999 x whatever, in those games, there are eneimes with HP values in the millions. These multihitting attacks are good because a lot of these enemies require several of these heavy damage dealing attacks, and thus a combination of good speed + powerful multihitting attack = good in THOSE games. In contrast to FFVI, no enemy has HP into the millions. Kefka, the last boss, has the most at what, 64K? No other regular enemies comes even close. Most barely have their HP breaking the 30K mark. Locke hitting for 9999 x8 (near 80000 damage) isn't much different than Setzer hitting for 9999 x4... the end result will be the same. Plus your tiering neglects pretty much on how the characters faired throughout the entire game. Your tier listing is more of an endgame, obsessive power-level ranking. If you want to rank FFVI on who provides the most overkill, I'm sure your tier listing is the best choice. My only criticism is, and always was, that a tier such as that is essentially pointless.
  • kainzerokainzero kimchee ii darou Joined: Posts: 437
    I know for a fact, that with Ultima Weapon equipped, Cloud will do 9999 almost guarantee if your on a high enough lvl, and once you go beyond a surpassed lvl, it's 9999 guaranteed, as long as Cloud is close to 9999HP. Now I've power lvled Cid, lvl 99, and even then, I've never seen him deal 9999 per hit with his Limit Break, as well as Barret's Limit Break.

    1: Did you max out their sources from the Gelnika crash?

    2: Critical hits.

    3: See video.
  • TrueSephirothTrueSephiroth Joined: Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Strike wrote:
    What's garbage is you resurrecting the argument again after more than two months has already passed. We're just arguing two different things. You seem to think a tier listing of level 99 FFVI god-characters has actual meaning and that ideally one should only judge the characters at that calibur. I've repeatedly said that it's fine to do so, but my main point was a tier listing such as that would have little actual merit or worth. At that point, nothing poses a challenge to you. The end result of Locke hitting for 9999 x8 is essentially the same as any other character hitting 9999 x4; as either would be overkill. The analogy I tried to show you was tiering which of these methods: atom bomb, missile, tank, gun is most useful in killing a ant? Sure, one could easily make a case for the most destructive weapon, similarly to how you keep insisting on the greatness of Locke 9999 x8. But the bigger picture is that a tiering at that point is ridiculous in and of itself. There's never only one "proper" way to tier an RPG, especially one like FF6. Do you take Esper bonuses into account? Do you take Merit Award into account? Do you take glitches into account? Tiering at 99 is the easier, but it's not very informative, and it's definitely not the only way to tier that game.

    On doing damage quickly, if that's a reference to Locke's "speed" being some sort of superior asset in FFVI, I have already extensively covered why Locke's speed is quite overrated. Active Time Battle takes into account battle animation, and thus while Locke may have the chance to strike first, unless you purposely take time out and power-level, Locke isn't doing anything spectacular that first strike that someone else couldn't do better just 1 or 2 seconds later. And anyone who thinks Locke's high speed is going to allow him to "lap" other characters in battle and gain extra turns really doesn't know how the battle system of FFVI works.

    Your analysis on the multi-hitting attacks of FFVII+ in comparison to FFVI is flawed. See, while Cloud is doing Ominslash for 9999 x15; Squall's Lionheart doing 9999 x20-something; Tidus/Wakka/Passedo doing 9999 x whatever, in those games, there are eneimes with HP values in the millions. These multihitting attacks are good because a lot of these enemies require several of these heavy damage dealing attacks, and thus a combination of good speed + powerful multihitting attack = good in THOSE games. In contrast to FFVI, no enemy has HP into the millions. Kefka, the last boss, has the most at what, 64K? No other regular enemies comes even close. Most barely have their HP breaking the 30K mark. Locke hitting for 9999 x8 (near 80000 damage) isn't much different than Setzer hitting for 9999 x4... the end result will be the same. Plus your tiering neglects pretty much on how the characters faired throughout the entire game. Your tier listing is more of an endgame, obsessive power-level ranking. If you want to rank FFVI on who provides the most overkill, I'm sure your tier listing is the best choice. My only criticism is, and always was, that a tier such as that is essentially pointless.


    Actually, if you read my past post, I did take glitches into account, however someone...cough you...said that "glitches where bs and shouldn't be used for tiering." :lame: , so sit down and stfu. One other thing that I'll point out again, the reason for the tiering of the individuality of characters is pretty much bs, is because of the glitches and what not, things like vanish/x-zone make any character's abilities useless...if I remember correctly, where you not the one who stated you got to the world of ruin on lvl 6, and if so, that definetly was not because of a specific characters "abilities", but abusing glitches to achieve this.

    I will agree with you, FFVI can be tiered in many ways, "if" we went by your standards, then the tier listings would be correct, this is if we didn't abuse any of the glitches as well, however if we are going at full potential, then mine would stand corrected. The reason for the glitches, esper bonuses etc, full potential are the sole reasons why "character individuality" in FFVI is pointless, because they dethrone anything that makes that particular character "effective"...if my memory serves me correctly, you get some of the best glitches fairly early within the game, that already mutes any character individuality useless, and in the end, why bother realizing character individuality when you have something like genji glove/offering combo, see my point?


    Btw, Kainzero, thank's for the video, you have proven me wrong about FFVII, I shall need to try that myself now :P
    "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." - Vince Lombardi

    Street Fighter II Hyper Fighting - Ryu
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