What about tiers for WCW World Tour thru No Mercy how would u guys rate those games if u played them. HCTP and Raw/Smackdown already have their rating for each character already so i assume those would be the correct tiers for those two games
DOTA top top teir?
3: See video.
1: Did you max out their sources from the Gelnika crash?
2: Critical hits.
3: See video.
top:battle rifle, sword, sniper rifle, beam rifle,plasma pistol (with battle rifle assist), shotgun rocket launcher
mid:plasma rifle (with sub machine gun assist), granades, brute shot, covenant carbine
low:pistol, needler, plasma sun, sub machine gun.
Anyone have tiers for Mario Kart DD karts? I'm thinking the toad car is top, but I don't really know where any of the other karts fall. Any opinions?
Flamie Z wrote:
Interesting tier listing for WWE SVR. Is there a tier list for WWE Smackdown 2 for the PSX too? That was the last wrestling game that I actually played seriously.
Red Exodus wrote:
Sonic & Knuckles
Top - Knuckles
Bottom - Sonic
Return of Shiki wrote:
Wow...SD2 seems SO long ago for me...I don't actually own a copy, but I rented it a few times back in the day.
It's tough to say, but the fighting system for the PSX Smackdowns were really quite ridiculous at worst and sheer broken at best (still 100x better than the Acclaim-made shitfests, though).
If I recall, there were no stats for wrestlers, about 95% of the roster had near-identical generic movesets, and the only true difference between most characters was finishers (and with the lack of limb damage system, any non-aesthetic differences between lower damage finishers was close to nil) and weight class (only 2, light heavy and heavy).
So I imagine the top tier of SD2 would be any heavyweight who had the most damaging finisher (Rock? Undertaker? Stone Cold?)
I think the tiers for FFTA would go like this. Change them if they're wrong.
Hope that's okay. If I missed any classes, go add them. If I made a mistake, tell me.
Return of Shiki wrote:
The problem with the "Overall" ratings in modern wrestling games is that stats aren't weighted...some stats are significantly more important than others.
As an example:
WWE Smackdown Vs. RAW tiers....
Although not an "attribute" weight class is probably the most important stat in SvR.
Wrestlers cannot perform the majority of grapple moves (all except the "No Liftup" grapple set moves) on weight classes 2 tiers higher than their own.
On wrestlers which are 2 tiers UNDER them...the standard Military Press can be used (when foe is groggy, do any grapple). This is very crucial in Royal Rumbles, as the Military Press can be used to toss someone outside the ring, bypassing the "Grip Gauge".
Ultra Heavy: Andre the Giant only
Super Heavy: Batista, Big Show, Kane, Legend Undertaker, Masked Kane, Undertaker
Heavy: Triple H, Kurt Angle, Bret Hart, Eddie Guerrero (LOL), etc.
Light Heavy: Shawn Michaels, Ric Flair, Scotty 2 Hotty, Bubba Ray Dudley (LOL), etc.
Cruiser: Rey Mysterio only
Diva: The chicks
Despite the...oddities on the list (228 lb. Eddie is a Heavyweight but 310 lb. Bubba is a Lightheavyweight.......A-Train is a good 80 lbs. heavier than Batista and yet Batista is a Super Heavyweight and he isn't???)...this still stand as important tiering factors.
Out of the 6 stats, here is the order of importance:
1) Strength.....determines the damage of attacks, nuff' said
2) Durability...defensive strength, rate of recovery....important but below Strength, and that you should be on the Offensive most of the time, ideally
3) Technique...determines rate of reversals and counters...key to shift you from defense to offense
4) Submission...Submissions are much better in this game...a deadly submission is a useful tool to round a wrestler, but its ranking is hampered by the fact some do not need them to be dominating (Andre...)
5) Speed....determines walking, running, climbing speed...nice to have, but not crucial outside of Cage and Ladder matches
6) Charisma....determines how fast your finisher charges...unlike in previous SD's, outside of a few deadly moves (Tombstone, Pedigree) and the best submission finishers...many wrestler's finisher aren't that strong or even important to their moveset. Continuous grapple attacks >>>>> finisher.
-Andre the Giant. No contest. Unfair weight advantage on everyone. Only the 6 Super Heavyweight can even safely grapple him, thus neutralizing most of the offense of the Heavy/Light Heavyweights in the game. 10 in both STR and DUR. Badass moveset.
-Triple H. 9 or above in every stat but speed (and has the maximum speed for a heavyweight). GREAT moveset...submissions, strikes, and grapples. Best finisher in the game, hands down...every SD! has THE finisher...the one that NO ONE kicks out off, and KOs ANYONE, no matter how fresh you are and your DUR stat. In Shut Your Mouth it was the Stunner. In this game, it's the Pedigree. Can't lift Andre, though.
-Undertaker. Solid stats. 10 DUR, 9.5 STR, and 9.5 Charisma. Perhaps a little too dependent on strikes...which opens up problems against those with high TECH. Super Heavyweight...and thus can lift even Andre. Great strikes, damaging grapples...submissions are a little weak but at least they're there.
-Kurt Angle. 10 in Submission, technique, and charisma is nothing to sneeze at. Solid STR and DUR for a heavyweight. The only 10 in TECH in the whole game, nuff' said. Will give lower TECH wrestlers fits. Possibly the best moveset in the game. Aerial, grapples, strikes, submissions....Kurt can do it all. Heavyweight. Can't lift Andre, but his strikes, aerials, and submissions can do well enough. Angle Slam is one of the best finishing moves in the game, and Anglelock is the best Submission in the default movesets. A moderate 8 in DUR can land him trouble against heavy-hitters, though.
-Big Show. 10 in STR, 9.5 in DUR. Only person to have 10 STR besides Andre. Super Heavyweight. Moveset lacks variety, but strikes and basic grapples will put a hurt on anyone. TECH only a 7.5, which can get annoying against the likes of Angle, Benoit, etc...basically a slight stronger UT, but with less speed, versatility, and no submissions to really speak of. But 10 STR is enough to give anybody trouble.
Legend Undertaker: Undertaker but with a slightly tweaked moveset...more strike-based offense, and no real submissions. Gains half point of charisma in exchange for half point in TECH and submission. *shrug*
Kane/Masked Kane: Undertaker-lite
Chris Benoit: 10 SUB, 9.5 TECH. Tied for 2nd Best TECH with HHH. Good aerial, grapple, ground, and submissions. Strikes are weak for the most part, though which keeps him out of top...but if can get close to you, or get you on the ground, he dominates. Heavyweight, instead of Light Heavy which helps his case A LOT.
The Rock: Superb stats for the most part, but an 8 in Strength, with his quick-strike and grapple based (limited) moveset keep him out of top.
Bret Hart: Only behind Angle, Benoit, and HHH in TECH. Only behind Benoit, Angle, and Flair in Submission. Heavyweight, with solid stats. Great moveset....only limited in strikes, and the Sharpshooter for some reason isn't as devastating as it should be. Benoit-lite, for the most part.
Shawn Michaels: 7 in STR and Light-Heavyweight class can hurt him. Solid stats otherwise, superior moveset, and his speed lets him runs circles around the Heavyweight main eventers and helps his excellent strikes.
Batista: 9.5 STR, 10 DUR, and Super Heavyweight class means he barely makes the cut above the Mid-Tier deadzone. Limited moveset (way too dependant on power grapples), and lack of speed and technique drag him...but his STR, DUR, and weight are not to be taken lightly.
Everybody else...there is almost no difference between 3/4 of the roster.
The Lightheavyweight jobbers (Scotty 2 Hotty, etc.) and Rey Mysterio (619 is a joke)
Divas and Paul Heyman
I can't believe I'm going to come out of lurking to post about old school Pokemon.
Mewtwo is God yes, but after that, the only Pokemon I'd think of using out of the ones you listed is Gyarados (and even that is shaky, considering Thunderbolt is usually on many Pokemon). Aerodactyl, Snorlax, Dragonite (beware Ice Beam), Chansey, Starmie, and Slowbro are all better than those, off the top of my head.
I thought this would be something interesting to talk about. What are some of the tier lists for non-fighting games such as beat em ups, shmups, rpgs, etc? Not only fighting games have tiers ":^)"
Anyways, I think I'll get the ball rolling with my opinions of the tiers for Final Fight.
I would rank it in the order of:
I place Haggar first because he's probably the best big man of ANY beat em up ever. His power is CRUSHING in this game. That pile driver of his takes half health each time! His defense is also the highest. His slow speed and large size are problems, but his pros far outweigh his cons.
Cody is very all around in every area. However, as a normal fighter, I would actually have to give the edge to Guy because of Guy's superior mobility. However, Cody's ability to fight with knives really puts him above Guy because weapons are always good, and knives are just so fucking plentiful all throughout the game.
Guy isn't bad at all actually, imo. He just isn't as good. First of all, he is very weak strength and defense wise. Next, his special ability, unlike Haggar's and Cody's, is absolutely useless. I NEVER use the wall jump. Now, I may be wrong, but it seems pointless to me. However, his mobility is a REAL big plus in this game because of the lack of a dash. And just in case anyone wonders, I play Guy myself.
The farthest I've been able to go on one credit is the fifth stage, but that place always wrecks me.
Return of Shiki wrote:
Didn't you criticize me earlier that characters should always be compared at max levels to demonstrate their "true" potential? Now you're claiming leveling up to 99 takes too long; I'm assuming you're arguing that leveling up to 99 isn't part of "normal play." That was the exact argument I pointing out in all those FF6/Chrono Trigger discussion.
I don't know much about the other BoF games besides BoF2, but in that game, Monster Island makes leveling up to Level 99 not nearly as tedious as you think... no more tedious than leveling up to 99 in that Dinosaur Forest in FF6 or fighting around in the Black Omen in Chrono Trigger IMO.
Maybe you're not playing the GBA version where EXP gains were multiplied by 4x. Also, in BoF2, EXP does not depend on the number of characters alive. You're doing yourself a disservice if you kill off all party members and go solo since they are not gaining any more EXP than had everyone been alive.
So on Monster Island at high levels:
Gongheads: 1 turn kill with everyone attacking
K.Sludge: G.Dragon + all-hit spell
The reason I came back into this topic was because you mentioned nothing about ease of powerleveling in the past. You were adamantly concerned with just judging things at max potential... not whether or not it's "easy" to get to level 99. Admittedly, soloing Dinosaur Forrest will reach you to 99 faster than Monster Island; but you're still devoting at least several hours for each of the 12 main characters doing this, which is a very noticeable diversion from just "normally" playing through the game from plot point to plot point. And in Chrono Trigger, level ups and battling are not nearly as fast as FF6, and yet you insisted on judging Ayla on her last fist ability. It just sounded a bit hypocritical to judge one game on max potential and not another.
Been playing Breath of Fire games a lot recently, so tiers for some of the BoF games.
Ryu/Hero - Agni owns everything in this game, it's effectively an "I win" spell.
Karn - morphs are the only other way without tons of level building of doing over 500 damage
Bleu - 400 damage for BoltX.
Bow - best physical outside of Karn and Ryu, spells are good in the early game
Ox - decent damage, but slow
Nina - only good healer, made obsolete by Agni, spells cost a lot
Mogu - average fighter, can't do anything else
Gobi - only good as part of Karn's morphs.
Ryu/Hero - solid all around, dragons are good for damage
Katt - best physical attacker with great speed (I think only Angel Nina has higher, but I could be wrong)
Rand - also solid all around, lacks in speed and AP, but Wake is one of the more useful skills in the game (whack your characters alive, woot!)
Nina - Angel Nina allows for escaping from any fight. High speed allows her to act before a lot of enemies. Will makes her more useful in long dungeons than Bleu.
Bleu - has Nina beat in terms of stats, but lacks the more useful Banish (Angel Nina) and Will (normal Nina) skills. Is also slower.
Bow - the healer of the party, but not a very good one because spells take way too much AP in this game. Is essentially a crappier version of Rand with more AP.
Sten - a crappier version of Katt, slower, weaker. Sweh is a neat skill if you're trying to fight a particular monster, but if you run into a monster you don't want to fight, you might as well use Banish.
Jean - is only good in his super shaman Frogman form, except that his Chop skill takes two turns, and has the potential to miss. Katt is a much better choice.
Spar - weak all around, stat boosting magic isn't all that useful, and that's all he brings to the table.
Ryu/Hero - dragon accession is better than anything any other character has to offer, nothing comes remotely close to how good it is.
Rei - Weretiger does good damage, and he normally does good damage anyways. High speed plus Pilfer make Rei a solid character.
Momo - Excellent support character. Does solid damage, and she also has healing spells to compliment her support magic. Low defense, and a lack of AP hurt her though.
Garr - physical attacker only. Is hurt by the fact that the Beast spear drains his health, making Momo a much better choice for bosses. Magic sucks.
Nina - black mage, is hurt by the fact that she doesn't last through long dungeons, because she'll drain her AP pretty quickly. Magic is very useful at times though.
Peco - starts at a way lower level than everyone else, and even built up, the only thing he has going for him is his high HP. Best use for him is to get easy levels to learn master skills, otherwise, leave him on the bench.
Maybe it's just when fighting the computer, but it's almost impossible to make andre tap out. I remember me and two other friends did a 3 on 3 elimination tag and ended up all fighting andre. My jericho and his angle ganged banged his leg repeatedly (walls of jericho/ankle lock at least 5 times) so much so that he started a sliver away from submitting, but andre willed his way up no matter how hard me or him tapped. Also those stats are crap btw. Bret Hart behind triple H in tech? Triple H being tied with benoit? BULLSHIT. Even in real matches I don't think he's EVER used a submission to win. Outside the ring he isn't going toe to toe with benoit or bret hart period.
Skies of Arcadia
Fixed Shot+Green Chaser Beam+Fire Shot
Gunstar Super Heroes-
His super of his main weapon has mad range and can be directed everywhere. Plus its the most balanced weapon he has good for all situations.
She has speed, and her regular shot of her main weapon is better than blue's but in boss battles she fails because her main weapon's super shot sucks ass and uses alot of her energy blast bar.
Legend of the Mystical Ninja
I been playing this side-scroller since i was 11. Fuck tiers this like my taste buds right here. Kid Ying owns everything when you collect your 2nd power up without getting hit by something. if you get your 3rd powerup you just about fucked up. the yo-yo has the worst lag time...youll get hit by an enemy when it comes back to you. so for kid ying:
Top-2nd Powerup weapon (The peacepipe is god)
Mid-3rd Powerup weapon
Bottom-1 st powerup weapon
Oh Yeah. When you finally get to the stages where you learn Judo. thats top tier too. too bad you can only use it in certain areas.
Fuck Dr. Yang. his stars, and 3rd powerup is all that makes him good.
Batman & Robin adventures-
Top to Bottom
Star (damaging-travels across screen)
Bomb (short range)
Gas---->Spray (stuns enemy)
Top to Bottom
Can someone tier
Dragon Force, Ragnarok, and tales of symphonia?