Actually, if you read my past post, I did take glitches into account, however someone...cough you...said that "glitches where bs and shouldn't be used for tiering." , so sit down and stfu. One other thing that I'll point out again, the reason for the tiering of the individuality of characters is pretty much bs, is because of the glitches and what not, things like vanish/x-zone make any character's abilities useless...if I remember correctly, where you not the one who stated you got to the world of ruin on lvl 6, and if so, that definetly was not because of a specific characters "abilities", but abusing glitches to achieve this.
I will agree with you, FFVI can be tiered in many ways, "if" we went by your standards, then the tier listings would be correct, this is if we didn't abuse any of the glitches as well, however if we are going at full potential, then mine would stand corrected. The reason for the glitches, esper bonuses etc, full potential are the sole reasons why "character individuality" in FFVI is pointless, because they dethrone anything that makes that particular character "effective"...if my memory serves me correctly, you get some of the best glitches fairly early within the game, that already mutes any character individuality useless, and in the end, why bother realizing character individuality when you have something like genji glove/offering combo, see my point?
Btw, Kainzero, thank's for the video, you have proven me wrong about FFVII, I shall need to try that myself now :P
Man are you like retarded? First, I read your post and you mention nothing about glitches. Second, I made no mention at all about using any glitches when I played a low level game, and in fact I didn't. So your assumption that I'm contradicting myself by speaking against tiering taking game breaking glitches into account while using them myself is both wrong and stupid. By the assumption that you think the only possible way to survive the game at low levels is through using glitches; by the way it looks like you enjoy overleveling to the point of obsessiveness; and by the way you continue to completely overrate and misunderstand the use of Locke's speed in battles; I'd guess that you really don't know much about the game.
By your standards, since everyone can use Vanish/X-Zone; almost everyone can use Esper bonuses to manipulate their stats; almost everyone can use the Merit Award and equip things they aren't supposed to; why even make a tier listing at all? My point is very simple, and it's kinda sad that you keep missing it: You tier list of Level 99 characters is a useless list. You're tiering solely based on who provides the most overkill (and incorrectly compared it to the high dealing attacks of future FF games). Your list totally neglects any account on how a character has performed throughout the game since you only focus on endgame, overleveled potential. I didn't say my tier listing was the only way to view things; it seems in contrast that you're making the bold claim that your way is the only "correct" way to tier FF6, which I disagree with and you seem to have a problem with anyone who doesn't see it your way. The point was that my tier list was probably more practical and relevant to how good a character really does play without taking hours aside leveling to godhood and removing any challenge from the game.
If you still don't get that, then that's pathetic.
Actually, if you read my past post, I did take glitches into account, however someone...cough you...said that "glitches where bs and shouldn't be used for tiering." , so sit down and stfu.
If you read further back, I told you that character individuality meant garbage at the beginning, because you where stating about the powerful magic capabilities of characters, however, I said "Why use that when you have vanish/x-zone, tatic." which is a *drums rolling* Glitch . However, you stated, that it was stupid to put that into the argument, and shouldn't be counted as playing the game "right". You speak of character individuality as if it's actually "useful", but just how useful is it and how long does it last, pratically almost all of the characters usefulness becomes mute by the time you can start abusing some of the game breaking glitches, and mind you, you can abuse these glitches all the way until the end of the game, and by the time you get near the end of the game, character individuality is mute, because you are right, everyone takes off "Overpowered like damage". If you don't like it, well, then, it truly sucks, but that's how it goes within the end.
It's not that I don't see your point, I understand it very well, your speaking of character individuality is useful for a time being, but that doesn't last very long at all, your trying to state it at a "not-full potential" view, I'm stating it at "full potential" I guess we are both looking at the coin on different views, I'm not trying to say my way is the best way, however I don't understand the fact of you trying to state that character individuality is so important when, I can just tell people that vanish/x-zone tatics own everysingle character "individuality" there is, and in the end, genji-glove/offering combo beats out anyting period, and you can actually get a genji-glove fairly early within the game, I believe when you talk to Baron, instead of saying yes, you say no, about two or three times, one of the most powerful equips at nearly not even 10% through the game...the only part where I see character individuality playing a key role, is at the first 25% of the game or even less than that, after that, it's pointless to even state it .
SSJ Hibiki wrote:
I know you guys have covered Star Ocean 3 before, but what is the most broken shit in that game? I just picked up a GH version of the game and am about a quarter into disc 2. It seems like Aiming Device(aka AHVB on the ground) and Side Kick are the broken moves of the game, at least to some extent.
The most broken things in that game are:
1. Boots of Prowess
The most broken character is Maria.
The most broken moves are probably:
1. Aiming Device --> Energy Burst combo (Maria)
2. Aiming Device --> Scatter Beam or Scatter Beam --> Scatter Beam combo (Maria)
3. Thunder Flare x N or Explosion X N stun combos (Sophia)
Anyhow, I don't see anything wrong with either list. Strike's tiering list is for the practical FF6 gamer while Seph's tiering list is for the hardcore FF6 gamer.
The thing you have to realize is that some weapons like Atma cannot be fully realized until they reach level 99. Therefore if you're tiering at half potential... then some weapons and accessories are thrown out of the equation because they are not fully utilized. At full potential, tiering takes every single aspect of the game into account.
SSJ Hibiki wrote:
How do I go about making Oricalcum and Boots of Prowess? Haven't been able to get a concrete answer.
What about tiers for WCW World Tour thru No Mercy how would u guys rate those games if u played them. HCTP and Raw/Smackdown already have their rating for each character already so i assume those would be the correct tiers for those two games
DOTA top top teir?
3: See video.
1: Did you max out their sources from the Gelnika crash?
2: Critical hits.
3: See video.
top:battle rifle, sword, sniper rifle, beam rifle,plasma pistol (with battle rifle assist), shotgun rocket launcher
mid:plasma rifle (with sub machine gun assist), granades, brute shot, covenant carbine
low:pistol, needler, plasma sun, sub machine gun.
Anyone have tiers for Mario Kart DD karts? I'm thinking the toad car is top, but I don't really know where any of the other karts fall. Any opinions?
Flamie Z wrote:
Interesting tier listing for WWE SVR. Is there a tier list for WWE Smackdown 2 for the PSX too? That was the last wrestling game that I actually played seriously.
Red Exodus wrote:
Sonic & Knuckles
Top - Knuckles
Bottom - Sonic
Return of Shiki wrote:
Wow...SD2 seems SO long ago for me...I don't actually own a copy, but I rented it a few times back in the day.
It's tough to say, but the fighting system for the PSX Smackdowns were really quite ridiculous at worst and sheer broken at best (still 100x better than the Acclaim-made shitfests, though).
If I recall, there were no stats for wrestlers, about 95% of the roster had near-identical generic movesets, and the only true difference between most characters was finishers (and with the lack of limb damage system, any non-aesthetic differences between lower damage finishers was close to nil) and weight class (only 2, light heavy and heavy).
So I imagine the top tier of SD2 would be any heavyweight who had the most damaging finisher (Rock? Undertaker? Stone Cold?)
I think the tiers for FFTA would go like this. Change them if they're wrong.
Hope that's okay. If I missed any classes, go add them. If I made a mistake, tell me.
Return of Shiki wrote:
The problem with the "Overall" ratings in modern wrestling games is that stats aren't weighted...some stats are significantly more important than others.
As an example:
WWE Smackdown Vs. RAW tiers....
Although not an "attribute" weight class is probably the most important stat in SvR.
Wrestlers cannot perform the majority of grapple moves (all except the "No Liftup" grapple set moves) on weight classes 2 tiers higher than their own.
On wrestlers which are 2 tiers UNDER them...the standard Military Press can be used (when foe is groggy, do any grapple). This is very crucial in Royal Rumbles, as the Military Press can be used to toss someone outside the ring, bypassing the "Grip Gauge".
Ultra Heavy: Andre the Giant only
Super Heavy: Batista, Big Show, Kane, Legend Undertaker, Masked Kane, Undertaker
Heavy: Triple H, Kurt Angle, Bret Hart, Eddie Guerrero (LOL), etc.
Light Heavy: Shawn Michaels, Ric Flair, Scotty 2 Hotty, Bubba Ray Dudley (LOL), etc.
Cruiser: Rey Mysterio only
Diva: The chicks
Despite the...oddities on the list (228 lb. Eddie is a Heavyweight but 310 lb. Bubba is a Lightheavyweight.......A-Train is a good 80 lbs. heavier than Batista and yet Batista is a Super Heavyweight and he isn't???)...this still stand as important tiering factors.
Out of the 6 stats, here is the order of importance:
1) Strength.....determines the damage of attacks, nuff' said
2) Durability...defensive strength, rate of recovery....important but below Strength, and that you should be on the Offensive most of the time, ideally
3) Technique...determines rate of reversals and counters...key to shift you from defense to offense
4) Submission...Submissions are much better in this game...a deadly submission is a useful tool to round a wrestler, but its ranking is hampered by the fact some do not need them to be dominating (Andre...)
5) Speed....determines walking, running, climbing speed...nice to have, but not crucial outside of Cage and Ladder matches
6) Charisma....determines how fast your finisher charges...unlike in previous SD's, outside of a few deadly moves (Tombstone, Pedigree) and the best submission finishers...many wrestler's finisher aren't that strong or even important to their moveset. Continuous grapple attacks >>>>> finisher.
-Andre the Giant. No contest. Unfair weight advantage on everyone. Only the 6 Super Heavyweight can even safely grapple him, thus neutralizing most of the offense of the Heavy/Light Heavyweights in the game. 10 in both STR and DUR. Badass moveset.
-Triple H. 9 or above in every stat but speed (and has the maximum speed for a heavyweight). GREAT moveset...submissions, strikes, and grapples. Best finisher in the game, hands down...every SD! has THE finisher...the one that NO ONE kicks out off, and KOs ANYONE, no matter how fresh you are and your DUR stat. In Shut Your Mouth it was the Stunner. In this game, it's the Pedigree. Can't lift Andre, though.
-Undertaker. Solid stats. 10 DUR, 9.5 STR, and 9.5 Charisma. Perhaps a little too dependent on strikes...which opens up problems against those with high TECH. Super Heavyweight...and thus can lift even Andre. Great strikes, damaging grapples...submissions are a little weak but at least they're there.
-Kurt Angle. 10 in Submission, technique, and charisma is nothing to sneeze at. Solid STR and DUR for a heavyweight. The only 10 in TECH in the whole game, nuff' said. Will give lower TECH wrestlers fits. Possibly the best moveset in the game. Aerial, grapples, strikes, submissions....Kurt can do it all. Heavyweight. Can't lift Andre, but his strikes, aerials, and submissions can do well enough. Angle Slam is one of the best finishing moves in the game, and Anglelock is the best Submission in the default movesets. A moderate 8 in DUR can land him trouble against heavy-hitters, though.
-Big Show. 10 in STR, 9.5 in DUR. Only person to have 10 STR besides Andre. Super Heavyweight. Moveset lacks variety, but strikes and basic grapples will put a hurt on anyone. TECH only a 7.5, which can get annoying against the likes of Angle, Benoit, etc...basically a slight stronger UT, but with less speed, versatility, and no submissions to really speak of. But 10 STR is enough to give anybody trouble.
Legend Undertaker: Undertaker but with a slightly tweaked moveset...more strike-based offense, and no real submissions. Gains half point of charisma in exchange for half point in TECH and submission. *shrug*
Kane/Masked Kane: Undertaker-lite
Chris Benoit: 10 SUB, 9.5 TECH. Tied for 2nd Best TECH with HHH. Good aerial, grapple, ground, and submissions. Strikes are weak for the most part, though which keeps him out of top...but if can get close to you, or get you on the ground, he dominates. Heavyweight, instead of Light Heavy which helps his case A LOT.
The Rock: Superb stats for the most part, but an 8 in Strength, with his quick-strike and grapple based (limited) moveset keep him out of top.
Bret Hart: Only behind Angle, Benoit, and HHH in TECH. Only behind Benoit, Angle, and Flair in Submission. Heavyweight, with solid stats. Great moveset....only limited in strikes, and the Sharpshooter for some reason isn't as devastating as it should be. Benoit-lite, for the most part.
Shawn Michaels: 7 in STR and Light-Heavyweight class can hurt him. Solid stats otherwise, superior moveset, and his speed lets him runs circles around the Heavyweight main eventers and helps his excellent strikes.
Batista: 9.5 STR, 10 DUR, and Super Heavyweight class means he barely makes the cut above the Mid-Tier deadzone. Limited moveset (way too dependant on power grapples), and lack of speed and technique drag him...but his STR, DUR, and weight are not to be taken lightly.
Everybody else...there is almost no difference between 3/4 of the roster.
The Lightheavyweight jobbers (Scotty 2 Hotty, etc.) and Rey Mysterio (619 is a joke)
Divas and Paul Heyman
I can't believe I'm going to come out of lurking to post about old school Pokemon.
Mewtwo is God yes, but after that, the only Pokemon I'd think of using out of the ones you listed is Gyarados (and even that is shaky, considering Thunderbolt is usually on many Pokemon). Aerodactyl, Snorlax, Dragonite (beware Ice Beam), Chansey, Starmie, and Slowbro are all better than those, off the top of my head.
I thought this would be something interesting to talk about. What are some of the tier lists for non-fighting games such as beat em ups, shmups, rpgs, etc? Not only fighting games have tiers ":^)"
Anyways, I think I'll get the ball rolling with my opinions of the tiers for Final Fight.
I would rank it in the order of:
I place Haggar first because he's probably the best big man of ANY beat em up ever. His power is CRUSHING in this game. That pile driver of his takes half health each time! His defense is also the highest. His slow speed and large size are problems, but his pros far outweigh his cons.
Cody is very all around in every area. However, as a normal fighter, I would actually have to give the edge to Guy because of Guy's superior mobility. However, Cody's ability to fight with knives really puts him above Guy because weapons are always good, and knives are just so fucking plentiful all throughout the game.
Guy isn't bad at all actually, imo. He just isn't as good. First of all, he is very weak strength and defense wise. Next, his special ability, unlike Haggar's and Cody's, is absolutely useless. I NEVER use the wall jump. Now, I may be wrong, but it seems pointless to me. However, his mobility is a REAL big plus in this game because of the lack of a dash. And just in case anyone wonders, I play Guy myself.
The farthest I've been able to go on one credit is the fifth stage, but that place always wrecks me.