Tiers for non-fighting games?

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  • StrikeStrike Joined: Posts: 78
    Actually, if you read my past post, I did take glitches into account, however someone...cough you...said that "glitches where bs and shouldn't be used for tiering." :lame: , so sit down and stfu. One other thing that I'll point out again, the reason for the tiering of the individuality of characters is pretty much bs, is because of the glitches and what not, things like vanish/x-zone make any character's abilities useless...if I remember correctly, where you not the one who stated you got to the world of ruin on lvl 6, and if so, that definetly was not because of a specific characters "abilities", but abusing glitches to achieve this.

    I will agree with you, FFVI can be tiered in many ways, "if" we went by your standards, then the tier listings would be correct, this is if we didn't abuse any of the glitches as well, however if we are going at full potential, then mine would stand corrected. The reason for the glitches, esper bonuses etc, full potential are the sole reasons why "character individuality" in FFVI is pointless, because they dethrone anything that makes that particular character "effective"...if my memory serves me correctly, you get some of the best glitches fairly early within the game, that already mutes any character individuality useless, and in the end, why bother realizing character individuality when you have something like genji glove/offering combo, see my point?


    Btw, Kainzero, thank's for the video, you have proven me wrong about FFVII, I shall need to try that myself now :P

    Man are you like retarded? First, I read your post and you mention nothing about glitches. Second, I made no mention at all about using any glitches when I played a low level game, and in fact I didn't. So your assumption that I'm contradicting myself by speaking against tiering taking game breaking glitches into account while using them myself is both wrong and stupid. By the assumption that you think the only possible way to survive the game at low levels is through using glitches; by the way it looks like you enjoy overleveling to the point of obsessiveness; and by the way you continue to completely overrate and misunderstand the use of Locke's speed in battles; I'd guess that you really don't know much about the game.

    By your standards, since everyone can use Vanish/X-Zone; almost everyone can use Esper bonuses to manipulate their stats; almost everyone can use the Merit Award and equip things they aren't supposed to; why even make a tier listing at all? My point is very simple, and it's kinda sad that you keep missing it: You tier list of Level 99 characters is a useless list. You're tiering solely based on who provides the most overkill (and incorrectly compared it to the high dealing attacks of future FF games). Your list totally neglects any account on how a character has performed throughout the game since you only focus on endgame, overleveled potential. I didn't say my tier listing was the only way to view things; it seems in contrast that you're making the bold claim that your way is the only "correct" way to tier FF6, which I disagree with and you seem to have a problem with anyone who doesn't see it your way. The point was that my tier list was probably more practical and relevant to how good a character really does play without taking hours aside leveling to godhood and removing any challenge from the game.

    If you still don't get that, then that's pathetic. :tdown:
  • TrueSephirothTrueSephiroth Joined: Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Strike wrote:
    Man are you like retarded? First, I read your post and you mention nothing about glitches. Second, I made no mention at all about using any glitches when I played a low level game, and in fact I didn't. So your assumption that I'm contradicting myself by speaking against tiering taking game breaking glitches into account while using them myself is both wrong and stupid. By the assumption that you think the only possible way to survive the game at low levels is through using glitches; by the way it looks like you enjoy overleveling to the point of obsessiveness; and by the way you continue to completely overrate and misunderstand the use of Locke's speed in battles; I'd guess that you really don't know much about the game.

    By your standards, since everyone can use Vanish/X-Zone; almost everyone can use Esper bonuses to manipulate their stats; almost everyone can use the Merit Award and equip things they aren't supposed to; why even make a tier listing at all? My point is very simple, and it's kinda sad that you keep missing it: You tier list of Level 99 characters is a useless list. You're tiering solely based on who provides the most overkill (and incorrectly compared it to the high dealing attacks of future FF games). Your list totally neglects any account on how a character has performed throughout the game since you only focus on endgame, overleveled potential. I didn't say my tier listing was the only way to view things; it seems in contrast that you're making the bold claim that your way is the only "correct" way to tier FF6, which I disagree with and you seem to have a problem with anyone who doesn't see it your way. The point was that my tier list was probably more practical and relevant to how good a character really does play without taking hours aside leveling to godhood and removing any challenge from the game.

    If you still don't get that, then that's pathetic. :tdown:


    If you read further back, I told you that character individuality meant garbage at the beginning, because you where stating about the powerful magic capabilities of characters, however, I said "Why use that when you have vanish/x-zone, tatic." which is a *drums rolling* Glitch:tup: . However, you stated, that it was stupid to put that into the argument, and shouldn't be counted as playing the game "right":rolleyes:. You speak of character individuality as if it's actually "useful", but just how useful is it and how long does it last, pratically almost all of the characters usefulness becomes mute by the time you can start abusing some of the game breaking glitches, and mind you, you can abuse these glitches all the way until the end of the game, and by the time you get near the end of the game, character individuality is mute, because you are right, everyone takes off "Overpowered like damage". If you don't like it, well, then, it truly sucks, but that's how it goes within the end.

    It's not that I don't see your point, I understand it very well, your speaking of character individuality is useful for a time being, but that doesn't last very long at all, your trying to state it at a "not-full potential" view, I'm stating it at "full potential" I guess we are both looking at the coin on different views, I'm not trying to say my way is the best way, however I don't understand the fact of you trying to state that character individuality is so important when, I can just tell people that vanish/x-zone tatics own everysingle character "individuality" there is, and in the end, genji-glove/offering combo beats out anyting period, and you can actually get a genji-glove fairly early within the game, I believe when you talk to Baron, instead of saying yes, you say no, about two or three times, one of the most powerful equips at nearly not even 10% through the game...the only part where I see character individuality playing a key role, is at the first 25% of the game or even less than that, after that, it's pointless to even state it:encore: .
    "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." - Vince Lombardi

    Street Fighter II Hyper Fighting - Ryu
  • SSJ HibikiSSJ Hibiki Joined: Posts: 312
    I know you guys have covered Star Ocean 3 before, but what is the most broken shit in that game? I just picked up a GH version of the game and am about a quarter into disc 2. It seems like Aiming Device(aka AHVB on the ground) and Side Kick are the broken moves of the game, at least to some extent.
    www.youtube.com/Tetsuo9999
  • StrikeStrike Joined: Posts: 78
    Actually, if you read my past post, I did take glitches into account, however someone...cough you...said that "glitches where bs and shouldn't be used for tiering." :lame: , so sit down and stfu.

    When you say "past post," I was assuming you referred to your most recent past post (singular), which offered no comments on glitches.
    If you read further back, I told you that character individuality meant garbage at the beginning, because you where stating about the powerful magic capabilities of characters, however, I said "Why use that when you have vanish/x-zone, tatic." which is a *drums rolling* Glitch . However, you stated, that it was stupid to put that into the argument, and shouldn't be counted as playing the game "right". You speak of character individuality as if it's actually "useful", but just how useful is it and how long does it last, pratically almost all of the characters usefulness becomes mute by the time you can start abusing some of the game breaking glitches, and mind you, you can abuse these glitches all the way until the end of the game, and by the time you get near the end of the game, character individuality is mute, because you are right, everyone takes off "Overpowered like damage". If you don't like it, well, then, it truly sucks, but that's how it goes within the end.

    I speak of character individuality and magic in the context of a game where one does not purposely take a detour of several hours to overzealously overlevel to the point that all battles become irrelevant. These things don't become moot if one where to play the game 'normally,' not abusing Vanish/Doom, not taking hours upon hours leveling up at Dinosaur Forest... in other words not when the game has become an utter joke. I'm not denying that these things don't exist. I'm not advocating that people shouldn't use them. I'm simply saying that a tier list that takes glitches and overleveling into account does not say much. It would basically be:

    Top Tier: Vanish/Doom, Level 99 characters
    Bottom Tier: everything else

    I'm not arguing that it's a wrong tier list; I'm arguing that it is a stupid tier list.
    It's not that I don't see your point, I understand it very well, your speaking of character individuality is useful for a time being, but that doesn't last very long at all, your trying to state it at a "not-full potential" view, I'm stating it at "full potential" I guess we are both looking at the coin on different views, I'm not trying to say my way is the best way, however I don't understand the fact of you trying to state that character individuality is so important when, I can just tell people that vanish/x-zone tatics own everysingle character "individuality" there is, and in the end, genji-glove/offering combo beats out anyting period, and you can actually get a genji-glove fairly early within the game, I believe when you talk to Baron, instead of saying yes, you say no, about two or three times, one of the most powerful equips at nearly not even 10% through the game...the only part where I see character individuality playing a key role, is at the first 25% of the game or even less than that, after that, it's pointless to even state it .

    Actually, it looks as if you repeatedly miss my point because I'm not arguing about tiering based on character individuality alone. I'm mainly pointing out that a tier listing of FF6 at "full potential" (Level 99, max esper stats, vanish/doom taken into account) would be a dumb list. Would you agree to that much? You claim that you're not saying your views of FF6's tiering is the best, and yet you are so adamantly against tiering the game any other way. You haven't really addressed my point earlier about how your comparsion to FF6's multihitting 9999 to future FF's multihitting 9999 attacks is a flawed analogy. I've never seen you ever try to attempt to counter how I explained why Locke's speed and how the ATB battle system really works, other than just insisting that you were right and I was wrong. From what I see, it just looks like you can't handle or don't like hearing any other opinion that differs from your own, and would rather just rely on repetitive insistance that you were right all along to defend your argument.
  • StrikeStrike Joined: Posts: 78
    SSJ Hibiki wrote:
    I know you guys have covered Star Ocean 3 before, but what is the most broken shit in that game? I just picked up a GH version of the game and am about a quarter into disc 2. It seems like Aiming Device(aka AHVB on the ground) and Side Kick are the broken moves of the game, at least to some extent.

    The most broken things in that game are:
    1. Boots of Prowess
    2. Oricalcum

    The most broken character is Maria.

    The most broken moves are probably:
    1. Aiming Device --> Energy Burst combo (Maria)
    2. Aiming Device --> Scatter Beam or Scatter Beam --> Scatter Beam combo (Maria)
    3. Thunder Flare x N or Explosion X N stun combos (Sophia)
  • boxbox Joined: Posts: 1,611
    The thing you have to realize is that some weapons like Atma cannot be fully realized until they reach level 99. Therefore if you're tiering at half potential... then some weapons and accessories are thrown out of the equation because they are not fully utilized. At full potential, tiering takes every single aspect of the game into account.

    Anyhow, I don't see anything wrong with either list. Strike's tiering list is for the practical FF6 gamer while Seph's tiering list is for the hardcore FF6 gamer.



    Has anyone made a tier list for MK Shaolin Monks yet? I only played as 3 characters and I never tried the VS mode yet.
  • SSJ HibikiSSJ Hibiki Joined: Posts: 312
    Strike wrote:
    The most broken things in that game are:
    1. Boots of Prowess
    2. Oricalcum

    The most broken character is Maria.

    The most broken moves are probably:
    1. Aiming Device --> Energy Burst combo (Maria)
    2. Aiming Device --> Scatter Beam or Scatter Beam --> Scatter Beam combo (Maria)
    3. Thunder Flare x N or Explosion X N stun combos (Sophia)


    My god... I'm starting to hear Maria say "Aiming Device" in my head now :confused:

    How do I go about making Oricalcum and Boots of Prowess? Haven't been able to get a concrete answer.
    www.youtube.com/Tetsuo9999
  • StrikeStrike Joined: Posts: 78
    box wrote:
    Anyhow, I don't see anything wrong with either list. Strike's tiering list is for the practical FF6 gamer while Seph's tiering list is for the hardcore FF6 gamer.

    Probably the best way to describe the situation.
    box wrote:
    The thing you have to realize is that some weapons like Atma cannot be fully realized until they reach level 99. Therefore if you're tiering at half potential... then some weapons and accessories are thrown out of the equation because they are not fully utilized. At full potential, tiering takes every single aspect of the game into account.

    The thing is, this statement makes it sound like a level 99 tiering takes 'everything into account, when that's not true. Both lists neglect things. My list did not take into account glitches, vanish/doom, or powerleveling; but it did take into account progressing through the game from beginnging to end. TrueSephiroth's list is a tiering of endgame power after an extreme amount of leveling that is going way beyond what is necessary to win the game. It's neglecting how well a character has done throughout the game; and neglects the fact that powerleveling breaks the game anyway. Wouldn't you agree that a tier list of level 99 characters is more about who provides the most overkill by the end of the game? Say you're facing a boss with 30000 HP. A level 99 Locke hits it for 9999 damage 8 times (doing roughly 80000 damage). Another level 99 character hits it for 9999 damage, but only 4 times (doing ~40000 damage). Is Locke really that much better of a character because he was able to do 40000 more damage on an enemy that was already dead? To me, that's like splitting hairs; in the bigger picture there isn't much difference when both situations lead to a dead enemy.
    SSJ Hibiki wrote:
    How do I go about making Oricalcum and Boots of Prowess? Haven't been able to get a concrete answer.

    Both are made through item creation. In the most basic terms, every creatable item has a rank level. Every inventor has a talent level for a particular kind of item creation. For Oricalcum's case, since it's made through Alchemy and has a rank of 50... add up all 3 of your inventors' Alchemy talents who are trying to make Oricalcum. Subract the total talent level from the rank level of the item, and that's the percentage that you will succeed.

    Go here and play with different combinations: http://www.crashedweb.com/so3/
  • G.O.TG.O.T #1 Haggar fan Joined: Posts: 2,164
    maybe its a fact that robo is tops but as an all around every situation character goes to Chrono/Magus to me. If wasnt for Robo having that weak magic defense i would carry him around everywhere I go. Chrono/Magus and Ayla is a team i been playing with and never stop playing with. even tho Magus has no real good techs. his resistance to most magic makes him solid, and the fact he doesnt takes hits like abitch. plus real great support character, all he would needed to be lovely is the ability to heal others. Ayla i hated at first until i saw everyone's tiers on here and said fuck im going to find out why everyone says she rapes. and sure enough she does. but robo is right below Magus in my opinion. when robo gets some magic defense we can talk.
    Fight Fo' Dah Future.
  • NandoNando 1337 Joined: Posts: 3,530
    DOTA top top teir?

    my fav combo Is Fierce into Fierce. #GGOP Good Game Play on ....Party On...

  • Return of ShikiReturn of Shiki Your favorite game sucks Joined: Posts: 4,411
    mr.hadoken wrote:
    What about tiers for WCW World Tour thru No Mercy how would u guys rate those games if u played them. HCTP and Raw/Smackdown already have their rating for each character already so i assume those would be the correct tiers for those two games :karate:

    Not really.
    The problem with the "Overall" ratings in modern wrestling games is that stats aren't weighted...some stats are significantly more important than others.

    As an example:

    WWE Smackdown Vs. RAW tiers....

    Although not an "attribute" weight class is probably the most important stat in SvR.
    Wrestlers cannot perform the majority of grapple moves (all except the "No Liftup" grapple set moves) on weight classes 2 tiers higher than their own.
    On wrestlers which are 2 tiers UNDER them...the standard Military Press can be used (when foe is groggy, do any grapple). This is very crucial in Royal Rumbles, as the Military Press can be used to toss someone outside the ring, bypassing the "Grip Gauge".
    Weight Tiers:

    Ultra Heavy: Andre the Giant only
    Super Heavy: Batista, Big Show, Kane, Legend Undertaker, Masked Kane, Undertaker
    Heavy: Triple H, Kurt Angle, Bret Hart, Eddie Guerrero (LOL), etc.
    Light Heavy: Shawn Michaels, Ric Flair, Scotty 2 Hotty, Bubba Ray Dudley (LOL), etc.
    Cruiser: Rey Mysterio only
    Diva: The chicks

    Despite the...oddities on the list (228 lb. Eddie is a Heavyweight but 310 lb. Bubba is a Lightheavyweight.......A-Train is a good 80 lbs. heavier than Batista and yet Batista is a Super Heavyweight and he isn't???)...this still stand as important tiering factors.

    Out of the 6 stats, here is the order of importance:

    1) Strength.....determines the damage of attacks, nuff' said
    2) Durability...defensive strength, rate of recovery....important but below Strength, and that you should be on the Offensive most of the time, ideally
    3) Technique...determines rate of reversals and counters...key to shift you from defense to offense
    4) Submission...Submissions are much better in this game...a deadly submission is a useful tool to round a wrestler, but its ranking is hampered by the fact some do not need them to be dominating (Andre...)
    5) Speed....determines walking, running, climbing speed...nice to have, but not crucial outside of Cage and Ladder matches
    6) Charisma....determines how fast your finisher charges...unlike in previous SD's, outside of a few deadly moves (Tombstone, Pedigree) and the best submission finishers...many wrestler's finisher aren't that strong or even important to their moveset. Continuous grapple attacks >>>>> finisher.

    Tiers:

    BROKEN:
    -Andre the Giant. No contest. Unfair weight advantage on everyone. Only the 6 Super Heavyweight can even safely grapple him, thus neutralizing most of the offense of the Heavy/Light Heavyweights in the game. 10 in both STR and DUR. Badass moveset.

    TOP:
    -Triple H. 9 or above in every stat but speed (and has the maximum speed for a heavyweight). GREAT moveset...submissions, strikes, and grapples. Best finisher in the game, hands down...every SD! has THE finisher...the one that NO ONE kicks out off, and KOs ANYONE, no matter how fresh you are and your DUR stat. In Shut Your Mouth it was the Stunner. In this game, it's the Pedigree. Can't lift Andre, though.

    -Undertaker. Solid stats. 10 DUR, 9.5 STR, and 9.5 Charisma. Perhaps a little too dependent on strikes...which opens up problems against those with high TECH. Super Heavyweight...and thus can lift even Andre. Great strikes, damaging grapples...submissions are a little weak but at least they're there.

    -Kurt Angle. 10 in Submission, technique, and charisma is nothing to sneeze at. Solid STR and DUR for a heavyweight. The only 10 in TECH in the whole game, nuff' said. Will give lower TECH wrestlers fits. Possibly the best moveset in the game. Aerial, grapples, strikes, submissions....Kurt can do it all. Heavyweight. Can't lift Andre, but his strikes, aerials, and submissions can do well enough. Angle Slam is one of the best finishing moves in the game, and Anglelock is the best Submission in the default movesets. A moderate 8 in DUR can land him trouble against heavy-hitters, though.

    -Big Show. 10 in STR, 9.5 in DUR. Only person to have 10 STR besides Andre. Super Heavyweight. Moveset lacks variety, but strikes and basic grapples will put a hurt on anyone. TECH only a 7.5, which can get annoying against the likes of Angle, Benoit, etc...basically a slight stronger UT, but with less speed, versatility, and no submissions to really speak of. But 10 STR is enough to give anybody trouble.

    UPPER-MID:
    Legend Undertaker: Undertaker but with a slightly tweaked moveset...more strike-based offense, and no real submissions. Gains half point of charisma in exchange for half point in TECH and submission. *shrug*

    Kane/Masked Kane: Undertaker-lite

    Chris Benoit: 10 SUB, 9.5 TECH. Tied for 2nd Best TECH with HHH. Good aerial, grapple, ground, and submissions. Strikes are weak for the most part, though which keeps him out of top...but if can get close to you, or get you on the ground, he dominates. Heavyweight, instead of Light Heavy which helps his case A LOT.

    The Rock: Superb stats for the most part, but an 8 in Strength, with his quick-strike and grapple based (limited) moveset keep him out of top.

    Bret Hart: Only behind Angle, Benoit, and HHH in TECH. Only behind Benoit, Angle, and Flair in Submission. Heavyweight, with solid stats. Great moveset....only limited in strikes, and the Sharpshooter for some reason isn't as devastating as it should be. Benoit-lite, for the most part.

    Shawn Michaels: 7 in STR and Light-Heavyweight class can hurt him. Solid stats otherwise, superior moveset, and his speed lets him runs circles around the Heavyweight main eventers and helps his excellent strikes.

    Batista: 9.5 STR, 10 DUR, and Super Heavyweight class means he barely makes the cut above the Mid-Tier deadzone. Limited moveset (way too dependant on power grapples), and lack of speed and technique drag him...but his STR, DUR, and weight are not to be taken lightly.

    MID:
    Everybody else...there is almost no difference between 3/4 of the roster.

    LOW:
    The Lightheavyweight jobbers (Scotty 2 Hotty, etc.) and Rey Mysterio (619 is a joke)

    CRAP:
    Divas and Paul Heyman
    If you listen to fools, the mob rules...
  • Duy NguyenDuy Nguyen Thug life!!! Joined: Posts: 830
    Nando wrote:
    DOTA top top teir?

    I don't think it's possible to tier the dota cast.

    If there's anything I'd say Omniknight is bullshit.
  • insomnotekinsomnotek insomno reppa Joined: Posts: 723
    kainzero wrote:
    3: See video.


    its been awhile, someone tell me the blue materia?
  • kainzerokainzero kimchee ii darou Joined: Posts: 437
    mime attached to command counter.
  • boxbox Joined: Posts: 1,611
    What are the tiers for Virtual-On???
  • insomnotekinsomnotek insomno reppa Joined: Posts: 723
    haah top tiers for saturns dragon force?

    i always thought mikal and that one vampire guy you get in the cave were pretty dope with their magics
  • DonkusDonkus Time Marches On Joined: Posts: 504 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    kainzero wrote:
    1: Did you max out their sources from the Gelnika crash?

    2: Critical hits.

    3: See video.

    Without those Hero Drinks Ungarmax will never get to 9999 on Emerald. I've done this with only Barret alive in about 20 seconds after his time. Having a second person alive to give you 2 Hero Drinks greatly speeds your time up.
    GOD BLESS THE RING
  • angelslayer13angelslayer13 randomly here Joined: Posts: 304
    Halo tiers:
    top:battle rifle, sword, sniper rifle, beam rifle,plasma pistol (with battle rifle assist), shotgun rocket launcher
    mid:plasma rifle (with sub machine gun assist), granades, brute shot, covenant carbine
    low:pistol, needler, plasma sun, sub machine gun.
    "stay open to new techniques. Be ready to learn from anyone otherwise you stay a prisoner of your own ignorance" -kancho joko Ninomiya
  • G.O.TG.O.T #1 Haggar fan Joined: Posts: 2,164
    :tup:
    Halo tiers:
    top:battle rifle, sword, sniper rifle, beam rifle,plasma pistol (with battle rifle assist), shotgun rocket launcher
    mid:plasma rifle (with sub machine gun assist), granades, brute shot, covenant carbine
    low:pistol, needler, plasma sun, sub machine gun.
    Fight Fo' Dah Future.
  • PsiPhiPsiPhi Joined: Posts: 824
    Anyone have tiers for Mario Kart DD karts? I'm thinking the toad car is top, but I don't really know where any of the other karts fall. Any opinions?
  • ProfessorSProfessorS Laimbeer Tier Joined: Posts: 184
    PsiPhi wrote:
    Anyone have tiers for Mario Kart DD karts? I'm thinking the toad car is top, but I don't really know where any of the other karts fall. Any opinions?

    I would say anything small, Toad Kart, Koopa Troopa Karts or the Baby Carriages.

    Anyone got an idea on tiers as far as characters specials go?
    Av by Xplict91
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Interesting tier listing for WWE SVR. Is there a tier list for WWE Smackdown 2 for the PSX too? That was the last wrestling game that I actually played seriously.
  • Red ExodusRed Exodus Joined: Posts: 255
    Sonic 2
    Top - Sonic
    Bottom - Tails

    Sonic 3
    Top - Tails
    Bottom - Sonic

    Sonic & Knuckles
    Top - Knuckles
    Bottom - Sonic

    Sonic 3 & Knuckles
    Top - Tails
    Mid - Sonic
    Bottom - Knuckles
  • Return of ShikiReturn of Shiki Your favorite game sucks Joined: Posts: 4,411
    Flamie Z wrote:
    Interesting tier listing for WWE SVR. Is there a tier list for WWE Smackdown 2 for the PSX too? That was the last wrestling game that I actually played seriously.

    Wow...SD2 seems SO long ago for me...I don't actually own a copy, but I rented it a few times back in the day.
    It's tough to say, but the fighting system for the PSX Smackdowns were really quite ridiculous at worst and sheer broken at best (still 100x better than the Acclaim-made shitfests, though).
    If I recall, there were no stats for wrestlers, about 95% of the roster had near-identical generic movesets, and the only true difference between most characters was finishers (and with the lack of limb damage system, any non-aesthetic differences between lower damage finishers was close to nil) and weight class (only 2, light heavy and heavy).
    So I imagine the top tier of SD2 would be any heavyweight who had the most damaging finisher (Rock? Undertaker? Stone Cold?)
    If you listen to fools, the mob rules...
  • KhiempossibleKhiempossible NAGEHAME User Joined: Posts: 3,254
    Red Exodus wrote:
    Sonic & Knuckles
    Top - Knuckles
    Bottom - Sonic

    I think Sonic has it way better than Knuckles in this game. The fact that he can do tricks with the different energy shields, has a more solid game (knuckles ends the game after like 4 levels iirc). Sonic also gets longer levels (well the first one anyway), giving him access to more special stage rings, allowing him to super up faster. Lastly, super sonic beats the crap out of super knuckles.
    "Win when you can; lose when you have to; but always play cheap" - Familyman
  • roninwarrior24roninwarrior24 Custom Title Joined: Posts: 635
    I think the tiers for FFTA would go like this. Change them if they're wrong.

    Top:

    Sage
    Assassin
    Gunner/Juggler?

    Upper:

    Alchemist
    Summoner
    Sniper
    Ninja
    Paladin/Defender
    Galdiator/Fighter
    Templar
    Bishop
    Blue Mage?
    Morpher?

    Mid:

    Time Mage
    Thief
    Archer/Hunter
    White/Black Mages
    White Monk
    Mog Knight
    Fencer?
    Elementalist?


    Low:

    Beastmaster
    Animist

    Bottom:

    Soldier/Warrior

    Hope that's okay. If I missed any classes, go add them. If I made a mistake, tell me.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Wow...SD2 seems SO long ago for me...I don't actually own a copy, but I rented it a few times back in the day.
    It's tough to say, but the fighting system for the PSX Smackdowns were really quite ridiculous at worst and sheer broken at best (still 100x better than the Acclaim-made shitfests, though).
    If I recall, there were no stats for wrestlers, about 95% of the roster had near-identical generic movesets, and the only true difference between most characters was finishers (and with the lack of limb damage system, any non-aesthetic differences between lower damage finishers was close to nil) and weight class (only 2, light heavy and heavy).
    So I imagine the top tier of SD2 would be any heavyweight who had the most damaging finisher (Rock? Undertaker? Stone Cold?)
    Just as a testament to the brokeness of the game, IIRC, Chris Benoit had a subimission move, "Neck Wrench", that could be continually linked for a submission victory and you couldn't counter it. As long as you got one in, you could keep mashing the input to continually chain it for the win.

    Aside from that trick, I think Triple H was top tier in that game. From what I remember.
  • js2756js2756 Joined: Posts: 169
    I think the tiers for FFTA would go like this. Change them if they're wrong.

    Top:

    Sage
    Assassin
    Gunner/Juggler?

    Upper:

    Alchemist
    Summoner
    Sniper
    Ninja
    Paladin/Defender
    Galdiator/Fighter
    Templar
    Bishop
    Blue Mage?
    Morpher?

    Mid:

    Time Mage
    Thief
    Archer/Hunter
    White/Black Mages
    White Monk
    Mog Knight
    Fencer?
    Elementalist?


    Low:

    Beastmaster
    Animist

    Bottom:

    Soldier/Warrior

    Hope that's okay. If I missed any classes, go add them. If I made a mistake, tell me.

    I'd personally bump Ninja up to top tier because they allow you to gain AP for 2 Action skills simultaneously, plus being human, have one of the best Totema in the game, and when combined with their natural speed, will be able to summon it before your enemies get a turn. Once you have access to all the Totema, the game becomes really easy, as all you need to do to beat any stage is to get 5 of your guys to get 10 JP before doing the mission, then just summon Totema's until all the enemies are dead (as long as they are human, bangaa or moogle, preferably human or bangaa). Even the final boss went down easily to this strategy.

    Hunter also needs to be higher. 10 JP for a kill is just too good considering the Totema that Hunter's have access to.
  • KhiempossibleKhiempossible NAGEHAME User Joined: Posts: 3,254
    Baldur's Gate 1 (PC)

    God tier

    You

    Top tier

    Minsc
    Imoen
    Edwin
    Viconia
    Coran

    Mid tier

    Kivan
    Ajantis
    Branwen
    Jaheira
    Kagain
    Shar-teel
    Safana
    Montaron
    Alora
    Skie

    Shit tier

    Eldoth
    Xzar
    Xan
    Dynaheir
    Yeslick
    Khalid
    Faldorn
    Garrick
    Quayle
    Tiax

    Subject to some debate based on class choice.
    "Win when you can; lose when you have to; but always play cheap" - Familyman
  • Red ExodusRed Exodus Joined: Posts: 255
    Chaos Legion

    God : Thanatos (Final Form)
    In this form, he can attack ANYTHING without any damage to himself. Extremely
    high stats, the single best stat booster, and his assist is just TOO powerful.

    Top : Thanatos, (Adult Form) Flawed, Hatred, Blasphemy

    Thanatos (Adult Form)
    Very powerful, and tears right through Organic enemies easily. Tears through
    groups of enemies, and his Assist is extremely powerful. Does suffer damage
    from attacking spiked metal enemies though.

    Flawed (Mini finger-bladed Legion)
    Is able to attack both Organic & Metal enemies (More effective against Metal), are
    fast attackers, excellent group attacks, can attack flying enemies,

    Hatred (Big & Muscular Legion)
    Does even more damage to Organic enemies, their Assist counter works on bosses,
    and they are very strong in ATK & Def. A little on the slow slide though.

    Blasphemy (Bomb Legion)
    Is effective against every kind of enemy in the game, large blast radius from their
    explosions, can kill enemies very quickly, can be excellent traps. The problem is
    their high cost for using their abilities.

    Mid : Guilt, Malice

    Guilt (Swordsmen Legion)
    Excellent Legion to us early on. You get a great number of them, they tear right
    through organic enemies, and they are strong attackers. Once the later lvls come
    by, they get replaced by the stronger Legions.

    Malice (Archer Legion)
    Like Guilt, this is a great Legion to use early on. Can attack from any distance,
    tears through metal enemies, and builds up combo faster than any other Legion.
    They are terribly weak to Organic enemies, and cannot attack close range at all.

    Bottom : Arrogance, Thanatos (Egg Form, Child Form)

    Arrogance (Shield Legion)
    They have weak attack, and ONLY specialize in counter attacking. Although they
    can do a nice bit of damage, you have to build it up via countering. Not that useful
    overall.

    Thanatos (Child form)
    Very very weak.

    Thanatos (Egg form)
    Can't attack. Just hops after you.
  • fracKturedfracKtured Funkungfusion Joined: Posts: 76
    Pro Wrestling for NES

    God Tier:
    Giant Puma
    (final boss--unplayable, even with Game Genie...trust me, I've tried)
    Fighter Hayabusa
    (once the opponent has more than a 1 second delay in recovering, you can back brain kick the shit out of him)

    Top Tier:
    Starman
    King Slender

    Mid Tier:
    Amazon
    Great Panther

    Bottom Tier:
    King Korn Karn
    "Even genius requires a competent technique."
    --Robert Fripp
  • G.O.TG.O.T #1 Haggar fan Joined: Posts: 2,164
    FF tactics advance tiers

    what about tactics advance tiers?
    Fight Fo' Dah Future.
  • Duy NguyenDuy Nguyen Thug life!!! Joined: Posts: 830
    Anyone wanna tier the Suikoden Tactics characters?

    I know for sure Lazlo (S4's Hero) is God Tier though, and yes Lazlo is his real name.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Sonic Heroes Tier list (From left to right)

    Speed: Shadow, Sonic, Espio, Amy

    Fly: Charmy, Tails, Rouge, Cream

    Power: Knuckles, Omega, Vector, Big
  • Higher-JinHigher-Jin MvC2 Moderator Joined: Posts: 1,953
    Not really.
    The problem with the "Overall" ratings in modern wrestling games is that stats aren't weighted...some stats are significantly more important than others.

    As an example:

    WWE Smackdown Vs. RAW tiers....

    Although not an "attribute" weight class is probably the most important stat in SvR.
    Wrestlers cannot perform the majority of grapple moves (all except the "No Liftup" grapple set moves) on weight classes 2 tiers higher than their own.
    On wrestlers which are 2 tiers UNDER them...the standard Military Press can be used (when foe is groggy, do any grapple). This is very crucial in Royal Rumbles, as the Military Press can be used to toss someone outside the ring, bypassing the "Grip Gauge".
    Weight Tiers:

    Ultra Heavy: Andre the Giant only
    Super Heavy: Batista, Big Show, Kane, Legend Undertaker, Masked Kane, Undertaker
    Heavy: Triple H, Kurt Angle, Bret Hart, Eddie Guerrero (LOL), etc.
    Light Heavy: Shawn Michaels, Ric Flair, Scotty 2 Hotty, Bubba Ray Dudley (LOL), etc.
    Cruiser: Rey Mysterio only
    Diva: The chicks

    Despite the...oddities on the list (228 lb. Eddie is a Heavyweight but 310 lb. Bubba is a Lightheavyweight.......A-Train is a good 80 lbs. heavier than Batista and yet Batista is a Super Heavyweight and he isn't???)...this still stand as important tiering factors.

    Out of the 6 stats, here is the order of importance:

    1) Strength.....determines the damage of attacks, nuff' said
    2) Durability...defensive strength, rate of recovery....important but below Strength, and that you should be on the Offensive most of the time, ideally
    3) Technique...determines rate of reversals and counters...key to shift you from defense to offense
    4) Submission...Submissions are much better in this game...a deadly submission is a useful tool to round a wrestler, but its ranking is hampered by the fact some do not need them to be dominating (Andre...)
    5) Speed....determines walking, running, climbing speed...nice to have, but not crucial outside of Cage and Ladder matches
    6) Charisma....determines how fast your finisher charges...unlike in previous SD's, outside of a few deadly moves (Tombstone, Pedigree) and the best submission finishers...many wrestler's finisher aren't that strong or even important to their moveset. Continuous grapple attacks >>>>> finisher.

    Tiers:

    BROKEN:
    -Andre the Giant. No contest. Unfair weight advantage on everyone. Only the 6 Super Heavyweight can even safely grapple him, thus neutralizing most of the offense of the Heavy/Light Heavyweights in the game. 10 in both STR and DUR. Badass moveset.

    TOP:
    -Triple H. 9 or above in every stat but speed (and has the maximum speed for a heavyweight). GREAT moveset...submissions, strikes, and grapples. Best finisher in the game, hands down...every SD! has THE finisher...the one that NO ONE kicks out off, and KOs ANYONE, no matter how fresh you are and your DUR stat. In Shut Your Mouth it was the Stunner. In this game, it's the Pedigree. Can't lift Andre, though.

    -Undertaker. Solid stats. 10 DUR, 9.5 STR, and 9.5 Charisma. Perhaps a little too dependent on strikes...which opens up problems against those with high TECH. Super Heavyweight...and thus can lift even Andre. Great strikes, damaging grapples...submissions are a little weak but at least they're there.

    -Kurt Angle. 10 in Submission, technique, and charisma is nothing to sneeze at. Solid STR and DUR for a heavyweight. The only 10 in TECH in the whole game, nuff' said. Will give lower TECH wrestlers fits. Possibly the best moveset in the game. Aerial, grapples, strikes, submissions....Kurt can do it all. Heavyweight. Can't lift Andre, but his strikes, aerials, and submissions can do well enough. Angle Slam is one of the best finishing moves in the game, and Anglelock is the best Submission in the default movesets. A moderate 8 in DUR can land him trouble against heavy-hitters, though.

    -Big Show. 10 in STR, 9.5 in DUR. Only person to have 10 STR besides Andre. Super Heavyweight. Moveset lacks variety, but strikes and basic grapples will put a hurt on anyone. TECH only a 7.5, which can get annoying against the likes of Angle, Benoit, etc...basically a slight stronger UT, but with less speed, versatility, and no submissions to really speak of. But 10 STR is enough to give anybody trouble.

    UPPER-MID:
    Legend Undertaker: Undertaker but with a slightly tweaked moveset...more strike-based offense, and no real submissions. Gains half point of charisma in exchange for half point in TECH and submission. *shrug*

    Kane/Masked Kane: Undertaker-lite

    Chris Benoit: 10 SUB, 9.5 TECH. Tied for 2nd Best TECH with HHH. Good aerial, grapple, ground, and submissions. Strikes are weak for the most part, though which keeps him out of top...but if can get close to you, or get you on the ground, he dominates. Heavyweight, instead of Light Heavy which helps his case A LOT.

    The Rock: Superb stats for the most part, but an 8 in Strength, with his quick-strike and grapple based (limited) moveset keep him out of top.

    Bret Hart: Only behind Angle, Benoit, and HHH in TECH. Only behind Benoit, Angle, and Flair in Submission. Heavyweight, with solid stats. Great moveset....only limited in strikes, and the Sharpshooter for some reason isn't as devastating as it should be. Benoit-lite, for the most part.

    Shawn Michaels: 7 in STR and Light-Heavyweight class can hurt him. Solid stats otherwise, superior moveset, and his speed lets him runs circles around the Heavyweight main eventers and helps his excellent strikes.

    Batista: 9.5 STR, 10 DUR, and Super Heavyweight class means he barely makes the cut above the Mid-Tier deadzone. Limited moveset (way too dependant on power grapples), and lack of speed and technique drag him...but his STR, DUR, and weight are not to be taken lightly.

    MID:
    Everybody else...there is almost no difference between 3/4 of the roster.

    LOW:
    The Lightheavyweight jobbers (Scotty 2 Hotty, etc.) and Rey Mysterio (619 is a joke)

    CRAP:
    Divas and Paul Heyman


    Maybe it's just when fighting the computer, but it's almost impossible to make andre tap out. I remember me and two other friends did a 3 on 3 elimination tag and ended up all fighting andre. My jericho and his angle ganged banged his leg repeatedly (walls of jericho/ankle lock at least 5 times) so much so that he started a sliver away from submitting, but andre willed his way up no matter how hard me or him tapped. Also those stats are crap btw. Bret Hart behind triple H in tech? Triple H being tied with benoit? BULLSHIT. Even in real matches I don't think he's EVER used a submission to win. Outside the ring he isn't going toe to toe with benoit or bret hart period.
    Either we all live in a decent world, or nobody does. - George Orwell
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Virtual On Oratorio Tangram tiers:

    GOD: Dordray, Grys-vok ( NUKE!!! ), Ajim
    HIGH: Apharmd B, Raiden, Balbados, Angelan
    MID: Temjin, Fei Yen, Apharmd S
    LOW: Cypher, Specineff
  • OlanOlan get me an apple, bitch Joined: Posts: 278
    Shuzer wrote:
    I can't believe I'm going to come out of lurking to post about old school Pokemon.

    Mewtwo is God yes, but after that, the only Pokemon I'd think of using out of the ones you listed is Gyarados (and even that is shaky, considering Thunderbolt is usually on many Pokemon). Aerodactyl, Snorlax, Dragonite (beware Ice Beam), Chansey, Starmie, and Slowbro are all better than those, off the top of my head.


    dude seriously, alakazam is a beast.
  • OlanOlan get me an apple, bitch Joined: Posts: 278
    wwf in your house
    top tier
    ahmed johnson- pearl river plunge is just too much

    high tier
    bret hart- elbow drop from middle turnbuckle had 0 start up frames and only 3 recovery frames. sounds beastly to me
    vader- vader bomb that shit, like raiden

    garbage tier
    shawn michaels- he's a I love My Little Pony so much it hurts
  • EphidelEphidel Old Man SRK Joined: Posts: 14,907 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I think the tiers for FFTA would go like this. Change them if they're wrong.

    Top:

    Sage
    Assassin
    Gunner/Juggler?

    Upper:

    Alchemist
    Summoner
    Sniper
    Ninja
    Paladin/Defender
    Galdiator/Fighter
    Templar
    Bishop
    Blue Mage?
    Morpher?

    Mid:

    Time Mage
    Thief
    Archer/Hunter
    White/Black Mages
    White Monk
    Mog Knight
    Fencer?
    Elementalist?


    Low:

    Beastmaster
    Animist

    Bottom:

    Soldier/Warrior

    Hope that's okay. If I missed any classes, go add them. If I made a mistake, tell me.

    OK. ( No particular order really )

    Top

    Assassin ( I don't have to explain )
    JudgeMaster ( Broken, but useful neverless )
    Juggler ( Smile wins )

    Upper

    Ninja ( Assassin is better, but Double Sword kills )
    Hunter ( Ultima Shot + Weapon ATK + )
    Illusionist ( Damage everyone - Think of a super black mage )
    Sniper ( Well rounded attacks, often useful )
    Sage ( Has an Ultima attack anyways )
    Gladiator ( High damage user, has an Ultima attack )
    Paladin ( Holy Blade rocks )
    Blue Mage ( Learn enemy techs. and skills )
    Mog Knight ( Also has an Ultima Attack, well rounded despite size )
    Summoner ( I don't know about this one, but I guess )
    Elementalist ( Damage plus status effect, can also heal party )
    Alchemist ( Flare and other spells and such )
    Thief ( Steal: Everything!!!!! )
    Dragoon ( Great attacks and jump really helps )
    Gunner ( Attack from afar, status effects included )

    Mid

    Black Mage ( Great spells and such, weak phy. attacks )
    White Mage ( Great healing spells and such, weak phy. attacks )
    Time Mage ( Quicken uses MP, smile doesn't )
    Red Mage ( Can do everything a Black & White mage can, but no powerful spells )
    Templar ( No real reason really )
    Fencer ( Quick and attacks like a solider, great abilities )
    Beastmaster ( Controling the monster is better than becoming one, plus helps the Blue Mage out big time )
    Archer ( Well - rounded, has the concentrate support assist )
    White Monk ( Great combat user, very quick for a bangaa or whatever )
    Ruinseeker ( Not too many attacks at your command, would of been upper tier )
    Bishop ( Bangaa with magic )
    Fighter ( High Damage user, crappy defense )

    Low

    Soldier ( Horrible abilities just screws them over )
    Warrior ( See Soldier )
    Defender ( Defense wins, but not in this game )
    Gadgeteer ( Why gamble??? TELL ME!!! )
    Animist ( No strong attacks, you must use your abilities every time )

    Bottom

    Morpher ( They suck ass, period. )


    I think I got them all, tell me if I didn't or if you don't agree on somethin'...
    Fightcade: Ephidel
    Steam: Ephidel

  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    DaBoss wrote:
    I thought this would be something interesting to talk about. What are some of the tier lists for non-fighting games such as beat em ups, shmups, rpgs, etc? Not only fighting games have tiers ":^)"

    Anyways, I think I'll get the ball rolling with my opinions of the tiers for Final Fight.

    I would rank it in the order of:

    Haggar
    Cody
    Guy

    I place Haggar first because he's probably the best big man of ANY beat em up ever. His power is CRUSHING in this game. That pile driver of his takes half health each time! His defense is also the highest. His slow speed and large size are problems, but his pros far outweigh his cons.

    Cody is very all around in every area. However, as a normal fighter, I would actually have to give the edge to Guy because of Guy's superior mobility. However, Cody's ability to fight with knives really puts him above Guy because weapons are always good, and knives are just so fucking plentiful all throughout the game.

    Guy isn't bad at all actually, imo. He just isn't as good. First of all, he is very weak strength and defense wise. Next, his special ability, unlike Haggar's and Cody's, is absolutely useless. I NEVER use the wall jump. Now, I may be wrong, but it seems pointless to me. However, his mobility is a REAL big plus in this game because of the lack of a dash. And just in case anyone wonders, I play Guy myself.

    The farthest I've been able to go on one credit is the fifth stage, but that place always wrecks me.


    Guy has a resetable infinite

    punch twice turn around punch twice turn around repeat till dead.

    broken bitch
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