General notation question

rcorporonrcorporon Joined: Posts: 532
Why do people use two different types of notation when discussing 2d fighting games?

ie: In SF games, QCF = quarter circle forward but in BlazBlue it's: 236.

When discussion BlazBlue, TvC, etc, do people use the numberpad style notation and not the QCF, SRK, etc?
PSN: Yewni
SFIV: Cody / Fei Long
P4A: Kanji

Comments

  • BlazinerBlaziner Joined: Posts: 241
    probably because thats the way blazblue explained it..
  • NarcowskiNarcowski Joined: Posts: 841
    Numerical notation is the international standard for 2D fighters. It's easier to read, especially if the language spoken by two players using the same combo list is inconsistent, and it handles things elegantly where SF notation does not.

    For example, take Taokaka's Astral Finish in both notations:

    Charge b, db, d, u + D
    [4]128D

    Which one looks better to you? I'm not even going to touch on how it's important to notate RC combos and FRC buffering in GGAC, mostly because I don't even want to write some of those inputs in SF notation.
  • Axl_m4sterAxl_m4ster This is how I look like, don't make fun Joined: Posts: 2,423
    Why do people use two different types of notation when discussing 2d fighting games?

    ie: In SF games, QCF = quarter circle forward but in BlazBlue it's: 236.

    When discussion BlazBlue, TvC, etc, do people use the numberpad style notation and not the QCF, SRK, etc?

    numerical notation comes from the guilty gear people. generally people from the new school fighters like guilty gear, melty blood, arcana heart, hokuto no ken, fate unlimited codes or other anime fighters use this numerical system.

    notation using letters instead of numbers are from the old school fighters era like most capcom/snk fighters.

    notation involving letters is older like the capcom/snk games and people posting up on those games organically and grass roots created them and adopted them, and since guilty gear and the other anime fighters came later and i think it was arc systems works developers that on their japanese website years ago that created that numerical system and the guilty gear crowd who would browse and look through gaming info had to learn their(asw) numerical system...eventually adopted it as their own. naturally.
    i could be wrong about arc systems works being the original creators of that numerical system...correct me if i'm wrong people.

    learn both or you'll be lost reading on character bnbs
    LOGIC AND REASON ARE OVERRATED VIRTUES.
  • NybbNybb DOUBLE GERMAN Joined: Posts: 426
    It's a lot like metric vs. imperial. Most of the world now uses numbers because it is a more precise, more efficient, and more consistent system, but one significant portion of players still refuses to change from the old ways regardless of how much clunkier they are, just like the USA with imperial.

    Another reason others in this thread haven't mentioned yet that most newer games use the numerical system is because using letters gets extremely cumbersome in games that have more motions than just quarter-circles and dragon punches. Writing out directions for motions like 641236 or 421 or 216 or 896 is just silly. Also, using state-modifiers in the number system, like j.B, sj.2C, etc actually makes sense...in the letter system, does c.MP mean crouching medium punch? Or close medium punch? Is n.MK neutral medium kick, or near medium kick?
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  • CI581CI581 Joined: Posts: 3,281
    just two different methods(of explanation).
  • kataridragonkataridragon My DP is 8+triangle Joined: Posts: 1,035
    I believe that number-pad notation is used widely in Japan while the explanation notation is used mainly in America.

    I think the main draw of the explanation notation is that its easier and more intuitive for noobs/scrubs. Example: If you were to try and explain the numberpad system to a scrub you would need to show them a number pad and later let them think about motions in numberpad notation. 236 could be confusing just starting out. On the other hand if you use the explanation notation its more self explanitory. Quarter circle forward speaks for itself.

    My biggest problam with explanation style notation is saying diagonals. I always have to say to people. Use the diagonal of down-forward which I think makes them want to do a motion of down to forward that being a QCF.

    Personally I think number notations easier. Easy to type, easy to talk about in conversation and not to cluttered. However there are incompitent people here on SRK so lets keep it excessible even to the mentally handicapped.....
    Foot Dive! Raise the Rufus! You mean nothing to me! What am I fighting for! Clack,Clack, Clackety Clack! Your too slow! My lady! No match for me! Instant Shining Wizard!
  • Trouble BrewingTrouble Brewing Salty about Ultra Joined: Posts: 4,493 mod
    For example, take Taokaka's Astral Finish in both notations:

    Charge b, db, d, u + D
    [4]128D

    Which one looks better to you?
    The first one, definitely. I can't even read the second one. :p

    I started to try to learn blazblue but all the new school number pad crap at dust loop turned me off.

    edit: I should say, yeah, it probably is the international standard. They use it here too. I should stop being an old man and learn it. :p
    The artist formerly known as Starcade RIP
  • rcorporonrcorporon Joined: Posts: 532
    I've learned to use both, and find that both are adequate, but I was just curious as to why the second system was created.

    Thanks for the info guys!
    PSN: Yewni
    SFIV: Cody / Fei Long
    P4A: Kanji
  • Spartan_ThroneSpartan_Throne Iron Fist dabes Joined: Posts: 1,474 ✭✭
    I personally think that putting the colons there at the start of each notation makes it un-mistakable for everyone.

    :b::db::d::df::f::uf::u::ub:

    :qcf:

    :qcb:

    :hcf:

    :hcb:

    :dp:

    :rdp:

    Much easier IMO.
    UMVC3 - Mags/Dorm/Doom ~ Wolv/Dorm/[Fist/Akuma/Doom]
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  • Axl_m4sterAxl_m4ster This is how I look like, don't make fun Joined: Posts: 2,423
    1 pic speaks 1000 words.
    LOGIC AND REASON ARE OVERRATED VIRTUES.
  • capitaohankcapitaohank capitaohank (psn) Joined: Posts: 3
  • Terry BogardeTerry Bogarde Joined: Posts: 259
    I believe that number-pad notation is used widely in Japan while the explanation notation is used mainly in America.

    I think the main draw of the explanation notation is that its easier and more intuitive for noobs/scrubs. Example: If you were to try and explain the numberpad system to a scrub you would need to show them a number pad and later let them think about motions in numberpad notation. 236 could be confusing just starting out. On the other hand if you use the explanation notation its more self explanitory. Quarter circle forward speaks for itself.

    My biggest problam with explanation style notation is saying diagonals. I always have to say to people. Use the diagonal of down-forward which I think makes them want to do a motion of down to forward that being a QCF.

    Personally I think number notations easier. Easy to type, easy to talk about in conversation and not to cluttered. However there are incompitent people here on SRK so lets keep it excessible even to the mentally handicapped.....

    *incompetent

    You're coming off like a real scumbag who's aim is to belittle others. It was a simple question. Are you not able to get your point across without the insults thrown in? Simply put, some people have lives or don't have the time to play and learn games like that. Not everyone can constantly frequent fighting game forums to even care about any of this. To them it's not that serious because they might only be casual players. How does this make them mentally handicapped?
  • Jasin WalravenJasin Walraven Joined: Posts: 298
    *incompetent

    You're coming off like a real scumbag who's aim is to belittle others. It was a simple question. Are you not able to get your point across without the insults thrown in? Simply put, some people have lives or don't have the time to play and learn games like that. Not everyone can constantly frequent fighting game forums to even care about any of this. To them it's not that serious because they might only be casual players. How does this make them mentally handicapped?
    I don't think he meant it as an insult. For some a scrub is just a lower skilled player ;)
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,506 ✭✭✭✭
    So the Tekken guys use numbers for their buttons. 1 = left punch, 2 = right punch, 3 = left kick, 4 = right kick. So if they use the number notion as well for left-hand inputs, wouldn't it look like:

    236.1 ~ 263.2+4 x 3.1+2 ~ 66 ~ 5.1+2+3+4?

    Jesus Christ, it's like deciphering the Nazi code.
  • GordonsBeardGordonsBeard QCF+P Bad Stoned Joined: Posts: 379
    I understand the point of the numpad, the only reason I've never enjoyed it is because of the fact that in society we haven't even settled on what a numpad is supposed to look like.

    keypad.png Numpad.gif
    I know we are supposed to use the computer one, and it's honestly not that confusing.

    I come from Street Fighter, so I'm sill a fan of saying "qcf" "dp" "srk" or even calling buttons their names like "forward" "fierce" "roundhouse". I can understand hearing "low forward" doesn't sound much like a kick - but trust me it is.

    Also when you have the luxury of all these bad boys: :u: :f: :b: :d: :df: :db: :uf: :ub:, that's just silly not to use them.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,506 ✭✭✭✭
    IAlso when you have the luxury of all these bad boys: :u: :f: :b: :d: :df: :db: :uf: :ub:, that's just silly not to use them.

    It takes forever to select those arrow functions from the drop-down list, unless there's a quicker and more magical way of doing it, it's much faster for me just to type it out.

    I still call it "jab, strong, fierce, short, forward, roundhouse". That's the original names, thus that's what they should be called.
  • GordonsBeardGordonsBeard QCF+P Bad Stoned Joined: Posts: 379
    It takes forever to select those arrow functions from the drop-down list, unless there's a quicker and more magical way of doing it, it's much faster for me just to type it out.

    I still call it "jab, strong, fierce, short, forward, roundhouse". That's the original names, thus that's what they should be called.
    There is a dropdown somewhere? I've just been typing it out since day one.
  • fokkusuhaundofokkusuhaundo true bubble struggle Joined: Posts: 695
    Numpad notation is what you use if you want to explain direction inputs to a non-English speaker, especially 2D FG players from Asia. Arabic numerals are universal in most languages and most people use the standard keyboard numpad layout.

    In writing, numpad notation doesn't have much of an advantage over English SF notation when explaining inputs to an English speaker. 'HCF' and '426' are both just about easy to write. In speech is where numpad notation becomes more efficient because you can just say 'One' instead of 'Down+back'. When explaining the SRK motion, you can say 'six, two, three' instead of the much longer 'forward, down, down+forward'.

    You know what's great though? Having the ability to understand and use both notations. It's almost like being multilingual. :wgrin:
    youはshock!
    PSN: nxsr
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,506 ✭✭✭✭
    There is a dropdown somewhere? I've just been typing it out since day one.

    How do you type it out?
  • GordonsBeardGordonsBeard QCF+P Bad Stoned Joined: Posts: 379
    How do you type it out?

    : d : = :d:
    : f : = :f:
    : b : = :b:
    :u : = :u:

    and the same goes for ub, db, uf, df, l, m, s, lp, mp, hp, lk, mk, hk, just put them between ::
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