Trust

mrdhalsimmrdhalsim Joined: Posts: 378
I made a new program called TRUST which stands for T.raining R.egimen U.nder S.uper T.urbo. I put together this brief demo video:

The general theme is "Seamless" and "Extensible". I am hoping that people will share their macro scripts. A lot of the examples could use some fleshing out, and write more of the "solution" scripts to the lessons.

http://code.google.com/p/trust-xspr/downloads/list
Clicking "Observe" will load a solution macro to watch of what you're supposed to do, however it's only scripted for Custom1's lesson so far. No rom is included with the installer. You can put an updated (clrMamePro'd) ssf2t rom inside Program Files\TRUST\roms\ folder and then you can Execute and Observe lessons.
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Comments

  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Cool

    This looks interesting
    Hey, still not OK
    Please gimme a link
    Have a nice day
  • othartheomothartheom recovering hyou bal Joined: Posts: 116
    this looks cool
  • ultracomboultracombo Weakest Loser Joined: Posts: 741
    More good shit, neat.
    Let's not take this for granite, peeps.
    "If ultracombo misses a low roundhouse, he is likely to continue doing it." - TheMuffinMan
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,568
    Who would think something cool like this (+ pasky's hud) would be created in 2011 for a 1994 game?

    This is how training mode should be... capcom threw millions of dollar at fg development and yet a single guy doing something on the side as a hobby created something that actually would help a novice learns how to play the game.

    I had a lot of fun trying to punish guile's cr. rh yesterday smilex.gif

    You got to teach me that lua scripting though. I have no idea what they do ...

    I know you invested a lot of time in this, here're 3 beery.gifbeery.gifbeery.gif for you sir.
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
    Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
  • deadfrogdeadfrog Joined: Joined: Posts: 6,787
    oh my god where are these blessings coming from
  • krknightkrknight Joined: Posts: 1,743
    where can i get this program?
  • KuroppiKuroppi くろっぴ Joined: Posts: 891
    The XSPR and Pasky projects are really nice. Along with the ST tourneys being organized both in NorCal and SoCal, it's great to see the ST community really stepping up!
    Shhh... ST in da house!

    www.strevival.com | STR Facebook | Twitter
  • mrdhalsimmrdhalsim Joined: Posts: 378
    Thank you! I set up a google project for it so you can get the installer here (80MB, Windows):
    Downloads - trust-xspr - T.raining R.egime U.nder S.uper T.urbo by XSPR - Google Project Hosting
    Clicking "Observe" will load a solution macro to watch of what you're supposed to do, however it's only scripted for Custom1's lesson so far. No rom is included with the installer. You can put an updated (clrMamePro'd) ssf2t rom inside Program Files\TRUST\roms\ folder and then you can Execute and Observe lessons. The first time you do so, press TAB key to configure your inputs for P1 and set P1 Start and P1 Coin to be your start button and Back/Select button. Toggle hitboxes with Start. Toggle input display with Lua hotkey 5. Exit back to TRUST with Coin.
  • PaskyPasky Ninja with pistol! Joined: Posts: 1,863
    Very cool, this will help a lot of people who don't understand/have trouble with renda cancelling supers (at least when someone makes a tutorial for it)!
    <Pasky> so you can go extra fast by just holding it?
    <bookah> turbo handjob
    <baklakiller> sure if had a penis
    <baklakiller> im a beginner gief
  • krknightkrknight Joined: Posts: 1,743
    my security program says that the lua51.$A is a trojan/virus. something you might look into. a great start for a program. give us updates as you add characters (especially sim).
  • mrdhalsimmrdhalsim Joined: Posts: 378
    my security program says that the lua51.$A is a trojan/virus. something you might look into. a great start for a program. give us updates as you add characters (especially sim).

    I actually had a friend test it on his machine, and his Avira Antivir reported something similar at one point. You shouldn't have any problems with it. The lua51.dll that is included in the TRUST install file was obtained from the original graphics library.

    lua51.dll and the other .dlls are required for displaying the images that are overlayed on the mame screen during certain frames of certain scripts (e.g. input images appearing for Beg. > Special Moves > Fireball that appear). Other programs that incorporate Lua scripts need lua.dll (not "lua51.dll") but mame-rr does not so I do not include lua.dll, only lua51.dll to do image overlay. It may be the case that other malicious programs may try to replace that dll but you shouldn't have any problems with the one included in the TRUST install file. The only problem I can imagine is if the code in mame-rr doesn't like lua51.dll as it exports the symbols of the lua interpreter.
  • UnessentialUnessential Joined: Posts: 1,168
    Looks interesting... super advanced training mode for Super turbo? gotta check this out... and start learning more characters other than chun...
    <quitjockinmystyle> everybody i wil approve what is cheating moves or not.
    STToronto https://www.facebook.com/groups/499056723549379/
    Because very few ST players check SRK anymore. mostly it's the local facebook group and NHC.
    PM me here or on facebook if you need a stick mod or repair. Same with arcade boards and superguns.
  • radicaledward101radicaledward101 . Joined: Posts: 805
    Looks pretty cool. Now I need to learn lua scripting :rock:

    I'm having a bit of difficulty in that the "Observe" and "Execute" buttons don't seem to differ at all. Does changing the button configuration mess up the player 1 inputs for the observations?
    -MBAA - Seifuku Akiha (I only play casuals now. No one wants to play...)
    -VS - Demitri (According to Twitter I'm the worst Demitri ever! [My Biggest FGC Accomplishment])
    -VF - Kage
  • mrdhalsimmrdhalsim Joined: Posts: 378
    Yes, and sorry about that- At some point, the basic idea is that every lesson should function as the Custom1 lesson does. The current version, however, Observe behaves just like you said, as if you press Execute. There is a separate script for it, however I have not actually scripted P1's moves. I'm hoping the community can help me out with this to flesh it out more (and/or share/add your own scripts and lessons). I should have made this clearer.

    (Don't worry about button config, that doesn't affect it at all- once it's configured, it will stay that way until changed).

    Also quite a few of the default lesson scripts as they are could be better. Again I'm hoping others will get their hands dirty and start tweakin.
    Looks pretty cool. Now I need to learn lua scripting :rock:

    I'm having a bit of difficulty in that the "Observe" and "Execute" buttons don't seem to differ at all. Does changing the button configuration mess up the player 1 inputs for the observations?
  • radicaledward101radicaledward101 . Joined: Posts: 805
    Is there a place you would recommend for learning the base language? Also, are there any other tutorials that might help us work on the project?
    -MBAA - Seifuku Akiha (I only play casuals now. No one wants to play...)
    -VS - Demitri (According to Twitter I'm the worst Demitri ever! [My Biggest FGC Accomplishment])
    -VF - Kage
  • P_CP_C Joined: Posts: 11
    Looks really nice!

    AVG also reports lua51.dll as a trojan.

    By the way it would be nice with the installation as a simple archive. I prefer not clogging up the windows register more than nessesary :sweat:
  • mrdhalsimmrdhalsim Joined: Posts: 378
    Is there a place you would recommend for learning the base language? Also, are there any other tutorials that might help us work on the project?

    Great intro to get familiar with the lingo: MacroLua script tutorial here:
    More details here (keep an eye specific to mame-rr) MacroLuaDocumentation - macrolua - This document is also available in the download package. - input playback and recording utility - Google Project Hosting

    A great way to get started is to make a lesson for a character you play (can be as simple as running a loop of a particular setup or situation you want to practice for yourself, ie scratch your own itch first) with a savestate, and implement it by replacing one of the Custom lessons e.g. Custom2. You can open the file in Notepad and edit its .mis macro script. If you replace the state to load (with the &110 or whatever number), keep in mind that the name of the actual .sta savestate file must be an integer NUMBER ONLY like the others you see there, i.e. not something like "practiceFromHere4.sta" but "499.sta" is ok (and try to keep in line with the numbering scheme of the others while you're at it).

    The center pane of the TRUST app is HTML, so right click in the pane to "View Source", and the path for the html file you're looking at is displayed in the bottom (left) edge of the TRUST window, so you can open that file in Notepad or some editor and change the text.
    Looks really nice!

    AVG also reports lua51.dll as a trojan.

    By the way it would be nice with the installation as a simple archive. I prefer not clogging up the windows register more than nessesary :sweat:

    As I mentioned above, all I can say at this point is that it's a false positive for lua51.dll that is included in the installer.

    Yeah there's a lot of .lua files. You can run mame.exe directly by double-clicking it, and then Ctrl-L to load the Lua console, Browse button and load trust.lua, then Run button. You will see yellow menus (start and joystick to navigate). This was the original design, however it required you to "renavigate" after you already selected the lesson in TRUST's front end before clicking Execute/Observe.
  • radicaledward101radicaledward101 . Joined: Posts: 805
    For whatever reason, this thread was not coming in on my subscriptions on the old forums. Now that I actually see your response to my question I will definitely see what I can get started on!

    If I come up with anything that is worth anything I will definitely let you know!

    Edit: If you want, you could let us know if you are making any additions so that we don't repeat the same work.
    -MBAA - Seifuku Akiha (I only play casuals now. No one wants to play...)
    -VS - Demitri (According to Twitter I'm the worst Demitri ever! [My Biggest FGC Accomplishment])
    -VF - Kage
  • mrdhalsimmrdhalsim Joined: Posts: 378
    I'm not working on any additions in particular at the moment. (I did my share! Now it's your turn people.) One place I'd start is making Observe solution scripts for what is there before moving on to other characters, and even fix a lot of the lessons and basic scripts themselves. But if no one else gets involved it won't be as fun.
  • ShinVegaShinVega Shoryuken'n est. 92' Joined: Posts: 191
    Great Job XSPR :D
    Look foward to returning to internet usage, 1 year without has been taxing....
    No freely available material is allowed on this site, no exceptions. - ptp
    SF2 Code v1.0: t s+ T++ r f++ g+ m+ s+ v++ M++ n++:-- o++
  • mrdhalsimmrdhalsim Joined: Posts: 378
    Here's a great little script put together by fatboy. I'm posting the Observe /SuccessReplay.mis file; take out the P1 inputs line for the Execute file:

    #### You are P1 sim. Duck P2 dictator's headstomp
    #### and punish with standing MK.

    &50
    <#Player 1
    W100._D.W10.^D.L5.W10 # DELETE THIS LINE FOR EXECUTE, leave it in for Observe
    /#Player 2
    W10._D.W66.^d.U.4..4._f_D.^L^D.W90>!

    Copy and paste that into one of the custom scripts, replacing what is there. For example, Custom 2:
    1. Select Custom 2 lesson
    2. Tweak menu, Edit Selected Lesson's Script
    3. Select all and Paste in the above script, then Save it. Delete the indicated 3rd line.
    4. While Notepad is still open, Open (view all files), open custom2SuccessReplay.mis
    5. paste in the script again, this time leaving in 3rd line.

    So custom2SuccessReplay.mis is for the Observe button, and also custom2.mis for the Execute button (and for custom2.mis, delete the indicated 3rd line beginning W100).

    6. make the save state file:
    The save state (50.sta as ref'd in the macro script) should have sim as P1 on far left of screen, and dictator on far right, at full screen distance and sim is closer to center of the stage so he when sim ducks, he will fly over to the other side and sim can hit him on the other side with MK. (shift F7 to save a state, then rename the 7.sta file in the \sta\ssf2t\ folder to "50.sta")

    Again, the html file (found in \TRUSTlessons\custom2.html ) can be edited so you can explain the setups here.
  • moocusmoocus internets? Joined: Posts: 869
    i'd like to get started with this, but i don't know what rom i need to make it work. i won't ask anything specific on here, but if someone can pm or email me to point me in the right direction i'd appreciate it.

    moocus@hotmail.com is my email
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,568
    someone posted it in pasky's HUD thread. look there.
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
    Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
  • radicaledward101radicaledward101 . Joined: Posts: 805
    (and try to keep in line with the numbering scheme of the others while you're at it)
    What exactly is the numbering scheme?

    For instance, there are currently 6 moves listed under Special Moves.
    Currently these are numbered 150 through 175 in multiples of 5.
    However the following section begins with 210.
    This leaves room for 6 more special moves.
    Even ignoring moves with the identical inputs there are way more than 12 special moves in the game.
    Should I stop using multiples of 5? Do you mind if I just rework the number system?

    Currently my plan is to flesh out the special moves section with a complete move set section for each character. This way, if anyone (like me) has trouble with a specific motion, they can select their character and the move they are planning on practicing with a decent savestate already in place.

    Further questions:
    Is there an easy way to edit the lesson tree on the left?
    Are the individual .lua files for each lesson identical? My linux box isn't online so I can't use diff :-(
    -MBAA - Seifuku Akiha (I only play casuals now. No one wants to play...)
    -VS - Demitri (According to Twitter I'm the worst Demitri ever! [My Biggest FGC Accomplishment])
    -VF - Kage
  • mrdhalsimmrdhalsim Joined: Posts: 378
    What exactly is the numbering scheme?
    For instance, there are currently 6 moves listed under Special Moves.
    Currently these are numbered 150 through 175 in multiples of 5.
    However the following section begins with 210.
    This leaves room for 6 more special moves.
    Even ignoring moves with the identical inputs there are way more than 12 special moves in the game.
    Should I stop using multiples of 5? Do you mind if I just rework the number system?

    You don't need to use multiples of 5 at all, it's just a general pacing of the lessons so I can squeeze in others later. Customized macro scripts should go in the range from 20 or so to about 98. It's not too strict, as long as you don't overwrite something else with the same number that you want to keep and haven't backed up yet. 100 to 999 are kind of reserved for the lessons there (and that may be there as more lessons get added).
    Currently my plan is to flesh out the special moves section with a complete move set section for each character. This way, if anyone (like me) has trouble with a specific motion, they can select their character and the move they are planning on practicing with a decent savestate already in place.

    Sounds good, if you do those I can update it to include those under the Special Moves branch in the next release. I focused on Ryu but there could be something for each character at some point. One way to approach special moves can restrict it to a particular character, however since the required motions overlap with other character's moves, it might offer a change of pace if you mix in other characters a bit. Since it's a repeating script, the idea is not exactly to have the player anticipate what the opponent will do of course, so I recommend approaching it like you're creating a kind of baseline rally warm-up in tennis before a game, where the point is not to score a point but to keep the rally going. But if you want to do it a particular way for some reason, go for it, I look forward to what you come up with. I think the most important thing is coming up with something that helps to keep the player engaged and focused. It doesn't have to be too complicated either, in fact it's important to keep it basic and just provide something like a simple goal to strive for. E.g. a common theme or task can be, "Get out X number of special moves before the script loops". A "mini-game" as Maj described would be great and keeping it simple goes a long way for that. Did you see that Guilty Gear Flash app thing that tested your reaction time? It was great in that it helped you get accustomed to the moves themselves. It gave you a specific number of a certain precision, and comparing your number with others was like a mini-game. Measuring performance can help increase performance tremendously if someone's serious about getting better.
    Further questions:
    Is there an easy way to edit the lesson tree on the left?
    Are the individual .lua files for each lesson identical? My linux box isn't online so I can't use diff :-(

    You can't edit the lesson tree on the left. I may update those from time to time when new releases come out, but intend to do so infrequently. If you do all the special moves as described, I can update it cause that could be very helpful, but if people are just sharing a few scripts, they can fit in the custom slots.

    Yes, most of the .lua files are identical. If you want to take a look into the Lua code, just know that it can get a bit hairy and the numbering scheme helps to keep things consistent and more organized. Open one in a text editor or IDE and scroll all the way to the bottom. If your editor displays line numbers, take a look from line 1310 to line 1321. That loads the specific .mis macro script. Now, one good reason to edit the Lua script would be to display images. One feature I added was the ability to draw images on any given span of frames over the course of your .mis macro file playing. In the Lua code I call these "Frameflow objects". For example, the fireball lesson's input images display such images. You can also display text and lines. Every script displays the text "PRESS COIN TO RETURN TO MENUS" from frame 20 to 280 (or the last frame if less). I did this in the Lua code itself on line 1317 by creating a frmText object, then adding it to the frmTextTable on 1319. For images, put them as .png's in the \TRUSTlessons\images\ folder. You'll have to create a Frameflow object for each image you want to display, and add that object to the frmIllusTable table.
  • radicaledward101radicaledward101 . Joined: Posts: 805
    hmmm...

    I think I may have been on a slightly different page from you on a couple of points. I'm getting a better sense of where you are going.

    For the special moves section in Beginners I was thinking something a little less involved I think. I expected the loop to be just a long "W200" with two different state save loads (one where the character is on the left and one where the character is on the right). At each state save load the player would be expected to try to perform as many dps as possible in that direction prior to the next state load.

    Some motions in the game simply need to be ground into your brain.

    I was going to create a full set of save states, 2 save states for each character. The first state has p1 on the left and the second state has p2 on the right.

    The mis file would consist only of
    &10 # p1 on left
    W200
    &11 #p1 on right
    W200!
    

    The solution .mis files would each contain p1 doing the correct motion for the move listed.

    Unfortunately, this would end up creating approximately 100 lessons by itself (if each character's full moveset is included).

    I realize that this is not what you were initially looking for. I would be glad to help with some of the higher level scripts as well (mini games, fireball wars etc). I'm just hoping that the Special Moves (and possibly the combos) portion of beginner could be a good section to grind out the muscle memory I don't yet have.

    If you really really don't like this idea I can put it together for myself, but you don't have to include it in the regular build. However, if that is your decision, I would be super appreciative of access to the menu source so I can keep the lesson layout structured.

    What you are giving us is amazing! If I am intruding in any way just let me know and I will back off.
    -MBAA - Seifuku Akiha (I only play casuals now. No one wants to play...)
    -VS - Demitri (According to Twitter I'm the worst Demitri ever! [My Biggest FGC Accomplishment])
    -VF - Kage
  • mrdhalsimmrdhalsim Joined: Posts: 378
    Ok... yeah what you had in mind would certainly work, but probably be a lot of work just to get only slightly more than what a console's training mode would provide (only difference on a console would be, that you have to go through initial menus to set it up, and also switching sides by jumping over to the other side or throwing P2 each time). TRUST lets you control the opponent so you get a better sense of the context of actual situation, e.g. P2 jumping in so in THAT split second, you think "OK the stick needs to already be in position by now in order to get out a srk in time", etc. and get used to that. The sf3 3rd Strike training mode had this too though, however with TRUST we can share scripts to work out together which are the best moves to work on (to counter which moves, etc) in an extremely granular level of precision, right down to the frame. Basically like those Pro Tips articles, but you convert all that text (making you read, think, it's all theoretical, yuck) into doing (Execution). The reading process itself has us decoding symbols into sounds and meanings, and even requires a sense of disbelief to a certain degree before you can even get a genuine sense of how to do what's being described in the text. When you put that decoding process into the context of a script, suddenly you're right there in the action, and can truly appreciate just what timing is required, exactly. Videos accompanying them are a step up, but it's not... TRUST. Nowadays, when I see posts about ST Saturdays or those other video tutorials for ST, I'm just thinking if you go to the trouble of making a video to teach something, why not make a macro script while you're at it, you know what I mean? That's so 2000 and 8; that's so 2000 and late. As you mention, the motions need to be ground into your brain, so with this program you have more to interact with; it can throw things at you to react to and keep it interesting, so the more convenient and engaging it becomes, the less self-discipline is required.

    Also I should probably mention that you generally don't need to edit/look at any of the Lua code files at all, unless you really want to and even then, it would be a big help to have some programming experience, and a curiosity to see or hack what's there. The macro scripts (.mis files) are the best place to spend your time hacking, in any case, tweaking the start of a move up a frame or two to get it just the way you want it etc. The macro scripts are separated off into their own .mis files, are easy to figure out and abstracted away from the lua code to let you focus on just the most interesting parts, so you really don't need to go digging deep into the actual lua code at all.
    Some motions in the game simply need to be ground into your brain.
    I realize that this is not what you were initially looking for. I would be glad to help with some of the higher level scripts as well (mini games, fireball wars etc). I'm just hoping that the Special Moves (and possibly the combos) portion of beginner could be a good section to grind out the muscle memory I don't yet have.

    I'm interested in helping both, esp. people new to ST. Fighting games don't really come with much in terms of a decent manual for what you really need to know so I was thinking this could also offer that kind of "tutorial mode". If you found any of that helpful or not I'm curious as to feedback.
    If you really really don't like this idea I can put it together for myself, but you don't have to include it in the regular build. However, if that is your decision, I would be super appreciative of access to the menu source so I can keep the lesson layout structured.

    What you are giving us is amazing! If I am intruding in any way just let me know and I will back off.

    Thanks- I don't take it as intrusion, esp just discussing it (I welcome the intrusion). The menu source is written in BlitzPlus (I totally recommend it but the compiler is not free and syntax not so common). How about this, maybe it'd be easier to just increase the number of Custom slots there are?
  • fatboyfatboy I beat anorexia: 10-0 Joined: Posts: 1,853
    For the record. This program is SICK...................... I am comming up with several scenerios for Sim fans!
    Am I hungry? Sure, I could eat...
  • FuddFudd High Level Parking Joined: Posts: 1,215
    For the record. This program is SICK...................... I am comming up with several scenerios for Sim fans!
    I hope one of them is post-noogie xup slide into headbutt on Chun/Claw and also forward drilling clean over fireballs.
    Some Killing Arts of Yoga, perhaps? :shy:
    "See, Super Turbo is a real man's game... But Street Fighter 4's like Chuck-E-Cheese, baby. Y'know what I'm saying? Where a kid can be a kid. I'm a grown-ass man, so clearly I'm not old enough to go in the ball pit." -Steve Harrison (Translation: dat Fo' make you soft)
    Super Turbo Revival
    "Everyone has a plan until they get magnetized." -SpiderDan
  • radicaledward101radicaledward101 . Joined: Posts: 805
    I'm trying to work on this, but I'm in the middle of a move to another city, and I'm starting a new job next week.

    Hopefully I'll have some progress to report soon though.
    -MBAA - Seifuku Akiha (I only play casuals now. No one wants to play...)
    -VS - Demitri (According to Twitter I'm the worst Demitri ever! [My Biggest FGC Accomplishment])
    -VF - Kage
  • FuddFudd High Level Parking Joined: Posts: 1,215
    I just tried this out two days ago, pretty cool. I think another good training scenario would be for first-frame reversals. Just set it up with Zangief doing a meaty sweep that you have to uppercut/flash kick/super to survive.
    "See, Super Turbo is a real man's game... But Street Fighter 4's like Chuck-E-Cheese, baby. Y'know what I'm saying? Where a kid can be a kid. I'm a grown-ass man, so clearly I'm not old enough to go in the ball pit." -Steve Harrison (Translation: dat Fo' make you soft)
    Super Turbo Revival
    "Everyone has a plan until they get magnetized." -SpiderDan
  • RufusRufus An unexpected database error has occurred. Joined: Posts: 1,966
    I just tried this out two days ago, pretty cool. I think another good training scenario would be for first-frame reversals. Just set it up with Zangief doing a meaty sweep that you have to uppercut/flash kick/super to survive.

    Something to be aware of there is that getup timing is character specific. (And can be position specific.)
    Hitboxes http://www.pedantic.org/~nate/HDR/
    "You don't know what you're talking about as much as I do." -- Unknown
  • CorrosiveCorrosive The Starting Over Joined: Posts: 1,352
    Something to be aware of there is that getup timing is character specific. (And can be position specific.)

    Any basic examples?
    It's best that you remain close to the "Ls", Joe.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Well, it is faster at the corner, for instance, as some weird things happen when characters touch the border of the screen after getting thrown, reset or knocked down. This really changes things but it s must-learn thing for Gief and Hawk. Anyway, it does not matter as one should create a lua file that would load a save state: both characters would be determined. For a different position, it would just load a different save state. For instance, you could have a Gief training lua that asks that you to a safe jump mid screen, then load an SPD towards your own corner and ask that you safe jump, then, finally, load an SPD towards the other corner and ask that you safe jump. It could be then improved with different types of knockdown, such as lariats, and different types of reversals (say, Ryu will use Shoryuken, that Gief will block or evade, and after that another state with a short Tatsu, that Gief must punch, lariat or throw).
  • mrdhalsimmrdhalsim Joined: Posts: 378
    There are some big tournaments I hope many of you can get out to this weekend. One great way to use the program is to keep in mind which critical tactics/attacks your opponents used during the tournament, and make scripts for you to practice the counter. Having video footage of your matches is great but sometimes you can remember it clearly enough and make the script anyways.
    I just tried this out two days ago, pretty cool. I think another good training scenario would be for first-frame reversals. Just set it up with Zangief doing a meaty sweep that you have to uppercut/flash kick/super to survive.

    Actually I think I included one script like that: take a look at \macro\macro\ssf2t-reversal-training.mis (dammit's original). I think it uses 1.sta save state, unless I changed that for the installer build. Indeed, an excellent use of the program and others like it (make it for different char/side of screen, as obr said just make a new save state for any given scenario you like) can be easily made and edited. One note about that- I was able to get the Reversal _message_ to appear on the screen sometimes, but not always with that script (Turbo 3 setting of ST probably explains this more than anything). I could also get the flash kick to come out after Zangief's cr. LK by charging down-towards (getting hit by light kick, then Flash Kicking), as well as blocking (down-back) then Flash Kicking. In any case, extremely useful to get the technique down and very practical.
  • KuroppiKuroppi くろっぴ Joined: Posts: 891
    XSPR has given me a write-up and explanation on TRUST, which you can read here.
    Shhh... ST in da house!

    www.strevival.com | STR Facebook | Twitter
  • QNHCantiAlphaQNHCantiAlpha Quit Noob Hatred Joined: Posts: 21
    can someone please help me with finding the rom that goes with this program
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    We can not help you with ROMs. We are sorry.

    Also related to ROMs, we can now check the hitboxes of the game. If you check papasi's post about seeing boxes, you will find a thread for it, in which there is a dead link to the file.
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,568
    I'd suggest you to look at pasky's hud thread instead

    http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/super-turbo-hud.133125/

    read all the pages
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
    Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
  • QNHCantiAlphaQNHCantiAlpha Quit Noob Hatred Joined: Posts: 21
    We can not help you with ROMs. We are sorry.

    Also related to ROMs, we can now check the hitboxes of the game. If you check papasi's post about seeing boxes, you will find a thread for it, in which there is a dead link to the file.
    Thank you for your beginners thread it is very helpful and i have found many good links with match up data and strategies.
    I'd suggest you to look at pasky's hud thread instead

    http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/super-turbo-hud.133125/

    read all the pages

    Thank you for the link. I found everything i need now i can get to T.R.U.S.T
  • monstalobstamonstalobsta Joined: Posts: 29
    cool stuff, congrats!
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    I have translated some of the stuff into Portuguese, and posted it in a local forum. A link to Kuroppi's blog with XSPR's extra explanations has been added to the Wiki, too.
  • mrdhalsimmrdhalsim Joined: Posts: 378
    Awesome! Thanks oldschool and Kuroppi, I appreciate it.
  • zasszass Da 'Mizer Joined: Posts: 1,122
    This is really amazing! But when I press the roundhouse button on my horiEX2, it crashes the program. Any ideas?
    Taking shit back to the RESERVOIR
    http://tea-hawk.blogspot.com

    SF2 Code v1.0: t+ c+ T+ r+(-) f g+ m+ s+ v+ M+(-) n+:++ o+ (av by Tat Guy)
    http://web.archive.org/web/19970219205915/hannibal.mit.edu/things/sf2/sf2code.txt
  • mrdhalsimmrdhalsim Joined: Posts: 378
    This is really amazing! But when I press the roundhouse button on my horiEX2, it crashes the program. Any ideas?

    Thanks for checking it out! The crash you describe would definitely be a new one- have you tried using your stick with the other lua script apps (throwbox display etc.)? You can test by clicking Execute from TRUST, and then in the lua console window that appears stop the script and load one of the other ones. Is roundhouse mapped to Button 6 in the TRUST Mame, and possibly anything else? What happens if you map roundhouse to a keyboard key or try it with another stick? Also I haven't tested this on 64 bit yet, only Windows 7 32 bit and Windows 2000.
  • zasszass Da 'Mizer Joined: Posts: 1,122
    If I run trustsf2-hitboxes.lua, then roundhouse works normally and doesn't crash. But if I load any lesson script (like the first block standing script), it crashes.

    roundhouse is mapped to joy1 button 9. that isn't mapped to anything else. If I map roundhouse to a key, it works fine.

    If I map the same button to forward, it crashes too. If I map a different button on the same stick to roundhouse, it works. The button that keeps crashing is the "RT" button on the hori ex2.
    Taking shit back to the RESERVOIR
    http://tea-hawk.blogspot.com

    SF2 Code v1.0: t+ c+ T+ r+(-) f g+ m+ s+ v+ M+(-) n+:++ o+ (av by Tat Guy)
    http://web.archive.org/web/19970219205915/hannibal.mit.edu/things/sf2/sf2code.txt
  • mrdhalsimmrdhalsim Joined: Posts: 378
    If I run trustsf2-hitboxes.lua, then roundhouse works normally and doesn't crash. But if I load any lesson script (like the first block standing script), it crashes.

    roundhouse is mapped to joy1 button 9. that isn't mapped to anything else. If I map roundhouse to a key, it works fine.

    If I map the same button to forward, it crashes too. If I map a different button on the same stick to roundhouse, it works. The button that keeps crashing is the "RT" button on the hori ex2.

    I tried a few times but could not get a crash. The TRUSTsf2-hitboxes.lua script is just the hitboxes script and doesn't check for button presses but if that works normally it's definitely strange behavior... you didn't happen to edit anything in input-moduleST.lua by any chance? (no reason to do so) If you are able to remap roundhouse and it's just the HoriEX2's RT button, this won't matter but just for kicks please confirm this as line 51 in that lua script file:

    i[n.."HK"] = {x+dx*(n-1)+0x40, y+dy*(n-1)+0x8, "P"..n.." Strong Kick", "P"..n.." Button 6"}

    Is there any error message at all or do both windows (both Mame and TRUST window) just close? There may be a black box appearing (briefly) but that is normal to put focus back on the TRUST UI window after exiting the emulator with Coin/Back button (the other thing I was going to ask to check was if it was mapped to Coin but it seems like it's restricted to RT button on the HoriEX2 and/or the input module lua script. I tested this with my HRAP-EX (Hori Real Arcade Pro EX), and I don't have a button 9 to configure to test it with, though all others seem to work fine in lesson scripts (Buttons 0,1,2,3,6,7,10,11). The closest thing to something like this was a crash when I stopped a running script in the lua console once, loaded another one (Ran it), then Coin to exit generated a crash dialog like Lua Error in LOAD function:
    [path of trust145cRoundhouse.lua]:771: [etc., complaining about my changing the framediff variable] but I couldn't reproduce that and suspect it has more to do with trying to load and track multiple states within the same lesson script than a button issue.

    If anyone else has a HoriEX2 to test with please let us know if you can get this to crash with its RT button!
  • ilitiritilitirit Joined: Posts: 6,381
    Is there any way to generate random numbers within a script? eg. Suppose I want P2 to walk/wait for a random number of frames between 12 and 20?
  • mrdhalsimmrdhalsim Joined: Posts: 378
    Is there any way to generate random numbers within a script? eg. Suppose I want P2 to walk/wait for a random number of frames between 12 and 20?

    The short answer is yes, I'm pretty sure it can be done (by hardcoding it or editing MacroLua to interpret it) but it's been a while since I looked into this. That was going to be one of the next main features, eg it would loop slightly different scenarios each time.
  • mrdhalsimmrdhalsim Joined: Posts: 378
    WALL DIVE

    I took a close look at the wall dive in TRUST since you guys now know there's more to the wall dive than previously believed.

    That counter to Sector 2 is not as easy as you may think, even if you know the theory. I investigated this in-depth and finally got it. I also came across some wacky random things along the way. This is a report on the findings, which includes links to two videos I put together (below). The video uses a script that starts out showing a "Practice" script you can use to try countering or blocking each of the three sector attacks, however in the video I just use it to illustrate (explicitly) the difference between each sector. Note the white crosshairs that define each character's center to make the distinction. After the Practice, I comment that out and uncomment the Blocking section of the script. After Blocking, I get into the Counters which involve Ryu's shoryuken/dragon punch (DP). First I cover counters (a) and (b) for Sector 1. Then I get into Sector 2's counters.

    Finally, Sector 3 is shown. In the second video, I only cover a successful Sector 2 counter, which I found only after a lot of trial and error.

    Countering Sectors 1 and 3 work fine and as you might expect, however Sector 2 counters are anomalous as MAO explains and require strict input. I have been in touch with MAO and he was also not quite unsure as to why the first video's Sector 2 counter failed (a dp hits when he doesn't press punch for the claw, yet Ryu gets hit when claw does press punch for the claw). Some subtle but elusive edits to the inputs made the DP counter successfully though.

    I can share the savestate I used, however it maybe easier to simply create the savestate yourself. Basically choose claw for P1 and Ryu as P2, and save the state a few seconds after the first round starts (don't move the characters). You may need to change your Windows OS permissions of the Program Files\TRUST\sta\ssf2t\ folder so you can create files there, in case you try to make a savestate but you don't see it there. When you run the script, I highly recommend setting the Slow-Motion speed to Half Speed (select this above the Execute button) as in the videos (links below).

    BLOCKING IT:
    For minimal input to block, I think you can just do it on the exact same frame Claw presses punch in the air for Sectors 1 and 3. To block, opponent must START blocking often by the first or second frame where Claw's claw-arm is below his body and orientated horizontally (the next animation frame has both arms in like a "V" shape, where his wrists overlap and after that, both arms spread out when the red box starts). Due to the frame-skipping nature of ST, which is how it obtains its game speed, this particular animation frame can take as few as 1 frame of the game, or up to 2 to 3 frames of the game, depending on which frames get skipped (which is determined by an erratic pattern). The wall dive itself is very quick, as Claw can shoot past many pixels of the stage during this time and there's no way to react but for frame-advancing, just know that sometimes you must have already have started to block during one of the "claw-arm is horizontally under him" frames. It seems to take 3(?) or so game frames to block-- i.e., from the frame you have already started pressing the blocking direction on the stick, until the frame when you are actually able to block moves in the game. (So say if you started blocking 2 frames before you see any red box, it is too late and even though you blocked before the red, the game hadn't registered it yet to establish your state as blocking yet).

    In order to block the Sector 2 attack, specifically, you need to START BLOCKING 2 frames BEFORE claw will press the punch button. The blocking of a Sector 2 attack is a guess (as are the others) and you are NOT REACTING to anything you see on the screen because by then it is already too late. The first instance of a Sector 2 attack in my script has claw pressing punch for the wall dive in the air on frame 302 and this means you must start inputing block (to the farwall side) on frame 299.[note, might be different from 302 as I've edited the script since writing this, but the point is that Sector 2 blocking is slightly more complicated in that you must hold the direction longer than for the other Sectors.]

    WIDE FACTOR: With regards to the nature of blocking a wide attack (I imagine Zangief's splash fierce (down+big punch in air) and moves like that might work similarly? haven't tested to be sure)... if the opponent starts blocking the wall dive that will hit in Sector 2 while claw is still on the far wall side in the air as he comes down, the opponent can successfully block. Otherwise, for Sector 2 attempts, he must block it as a cross-up i.e. hold the direction of near-wall side. He can start blocking it earlier in that direction; in any case, in the example I have of Sector 2, the "claw-arm is horizontally under him" frame occurs after claw's center (white crosshair X value) has already passed Ryu's center.

    EXTERNAL MIX-UPS: This only deals with the wall dive itself, specifically its 3 Sector (and 3 counter and 2 block) possibilities. Since it is dependent upon something to GUESS which Sector of the 3, as opposed to it being something to react to, there are other things to guess as well while you're doing the guessing. Maybe it's one of the 3 Sectors of the wall dive, but if you try blocking and claw does not press punch AT ALL, the wall dive is so fast that he can land and throw from the ground. I haven't tested this but there are lots of other potential threats besides the 3 sectors of the wall dive itself.

    COUNTERING IT:

    Countering Sector 1 attacks of the wall dive may vary to some degree from my example, which I think does it kind of late (a). So you can also get it out if you do the DP earlier (b). In my first example (a), because it is late, the Sector 1 wall dive attempt actually winds up with claw on the nearside wall at the very end as he gets hit by the DP (Ryu moved to the right slightly and the hitting has an effect on it as well).

    Countering Sector 2 attacks with the anomalous yoga flame motion and releasing the punch buttons proved very difficult. See it's own section for how to do it successfully. One time, I release the jab (light punch) button while claw is still on the farwall side, and the other two when he has crossed back over to the originating nearwall side but no dragon punch or fireball comes out. HOWEVER, tacking on a light kick while releasing light punch (i.e. a "4" to the inputs) DOES get a tatsu, which actually causes the wall dive to whiff, missing entirely but it does NOT actually counter with a dp.

    CHEAPNESS:

    The wall dive is the easiest move in the game for the biggest gains, and has tremendous ambiguity. Getting the counter to Sector 2 wall dives is
    difficult at best.

    Other characters have other attacks in the game that can be difficult to block against, although generally have more to do with the ability to react instead of guess in order to block correctly. The same is true for countering, and in countering it's not just two possibilities but three you have to guess from. What other move, setup, or situation requires the opponent to guess from one of THREE possibilities, especially one of which requires anomalous input-- a yoga flame motion instead of srk motion-- in order to successfully counter? Does any other move or tactic have effectively three attacks in one? And one of those three, an option select by itself? Sector 2 counter attempts will often incur block damage, hit you clean, or whiff completely outside the small window of opportunity.

    I had seen this in Japan many times before MAO taught the tech, but American claw players probably had little idea of what was going on or just how ambiguous it truly could be, attributing failure to counter wall dives that fell into Sector 2 (both their own as well as others') as "skill". Some really did not appreciate being told there was more to understand about it, either.

    The first video (no sound) is here:
    The second video (low sound):

    The Sector 2 counter failing is illustrated from 5:45 until 7:45 in the first video, which shows a little inconsistency and no successful counter. (It also shows an attempt at a counter that winds up being a block for some reason, ONLY on the first iteration of the script. Ever after, it fails to counter and gets hit by the wall dive.)

    I urge others esp. claw players to contribute in the effort to come up with the solution independently. There are two factors I suspect. One is the initial inconsistency (first time the script runs, Ryu blocks Sector 2 attack (failing to counter) begining around 7:10 in the video, but each iteration after that gets hit by wall dive). Again, that just plays into the ambiguity favor of claw and one more thing to fear by the opponent, outside the scope of any particular skill and just possibly an ST problem perhaps due to ST frame-skipping. The other is that claw's dive hitting BARELY on the Sector 2 side (i.e. JUST outside Sector 1 or, the cross-up point, note the white crosshair plus sign in the video frames) could have claw hitting too HIGH in the air (not deep) AND at the same time not enough time to turn around(?) or like, for the yoga flame motion to be Executed quickly enough so that it both starts on Sector 1 side AND has enough time/space to finish once claw reaches Sector 2. btw Note that, in order to block Sector 2 attacks, you cannot just block for as little as one frame (as you can for Sectors 1 and 3) and that you must block for longer over more frames.

    MISC:
    It doesn't seem to matter which side Claw lands on. Sometimes claw lands on left side after knockdown, sometimes right. but it hits in Sector 1. Just BARELY in it (i.e. Claw's center line is the very next pixel over from Ryu's center line, one to the far wall side). Despite having the same save state and exact same inputs each time, I suspect the difference may have to do with how many frames ST skips to achieve its speed. The goal was to get the center lines of the characters to line up: I tried to get the white crosshairs' X value to be the same for each character, i.e. Claw is right on top of Ryu dead center for maximum ambiguity or as close as possible to it. Due to the wall dive's speed in this scenario, just one more frame of left on the stick for Claw would have him go 4 pixels the other way past the crossup point.

    I think there are 20 frames from the time Claw starts the move (up+farwalldirection+kick) until he reaches the far wall. Trying to do the DP one or two frames earlier. As it is, I keep getting hit. Anb if I try to do DP two frames earlier, the DP'll whiff (not counter at all). So from my initial "with and without claw" version of the script, one frame earlier DP gets it blocked, and two frames earlier DP whiffs (neither a counter as desired).

    To fail the counter and get a BLOCK, do the yoga flame motion such that you hit down and no other input (not down-right and not down-left) during the time that Claw is directly above you (i.e. the cross-up point, i.e. when you'd switch directions if you were a charge character in order to keep your charge when crossing up/being crossed up). If claw messes up and does presses punch in the air too late for too deep a hit, you can DP this but if the claw player does it correctly (hits high) you cannot seem to counter this at all (block or whiff a DP, but not counter a properly done Sector 2 attack).

    If you attempt the counter to Section 2 too early, you'll wind up blocking, and if you tack on a kick press for tatsu as you release or next frame after releasing punches, the wall dive will hit you clean out of the tatsu. I tried running the script asynchronously, and a DP came out but I did the claw punch (3) earlier and it whiffed.

    #### COUNTER TO SECTOR 2
    I found it using manual inputs for Ryu and frame-advancing through each time. It barely hits by 2 pixels with this way- will look at it more. Usually whiffed by bordering the hitbox (blue line next to a red line of the hitboxes). For Sector 2 - Counter (h), do the following steps:

    Turn on input display and hitbox display while it runs the first loop.

    When the next loop begins, press all three punches and keep them pressed down for P2@Ryu manually (use jab first so it completes quicker). Actually this isn't required, you can just wait until the yoga flame motion is completed to press weak punch and it should also come out.

    Pause around frame 100 (this is after Claw jumps off farwall but still high in the air before he presses punch)

    Use frame-advance a few times until frame 112

    Start holding down P2's right directional. You're still holding all three punches too. Frame-advance exactly one time to frame 113. (You can confirm this by input display if you have that on)

    Hold down P2@Ryu's right and down directionals and frame-advance to frame 114.

    Let go of P2's right directional, still holding down (and all three P's), and frame-advance to frame 115. Note, at this frame or around here is the frame the characters switch sides.

    Hold P2's left and down directionals, and frame-advance to frame 116.

    While holding left, let go of down and weak punch, then frame-advance to frame 117.

    Let go of mid and heavy punches and keep holding left, then frame-advance to frame 118 or a few more. YOU HAVE TO HOLD LEFT after releasing weak punch. You'll go into blockstun otherwise if you don't do keep holding left!

    A DP should BARELY hit by one or two pixels max.

    Try the same steps again, except exactly one frame later (start inputing from frame 114 instead of 113) and your DP will whiff.

    A DP will also hit starting another frame earlier at 112, 111 and 110 but blocks at frame 109.

    A BLOCK will occur if you attempt it from frame 109. THAT IS YOUR WINDOW, four frames with this scenario.

    A WACKY RANDOM THING will occur if you attempt it from frame 115. Try that 5 or 10 times in a row, from 115. I've gotten a fireball, gotten hit by the claw, and whiffed a DP. Wacky stuff also happens from 116.

    From 117 and higher, it's too late and the claw should hit you.

    XSPR
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