Super Street Fighter II Turbo, in the house

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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,675 admin
    Toodles wrote:
    I thought the "hold start when selecting game version" gave you arcade perfect settings, including the stored ochio, stored claw flip, stored chun super, and un-nerfed O.Sagat. Does anyone know of any differences between the 'start selected' Hyper characters and authentic Super Turbo characters?


    Nope. You can pick SSF2 and SSF2 Turbo characters with the glitches but the some characters are still nerfed and hit boxes for many characters are fubar.
  • ToXYToXY Scrubs up? Joined: Posts: 598
    i havnt played ae for a while, i got it on xbox and i think you need to hold select (back) on super mode to get old characters,
    so would this mean you have to press start + select to get an arcade perfect o.sagat, and do you hear a sound or chime if it worked?
  • SaBrESaBrE BAI BAI Joined: Posts: 4,495 mod
    let me break this down

    in ST, st old characters are hardly similar to ssf2 characters. that is a major misconception with people. st old characters are NOT like ssf2 characters. a basic example (not talking ae here only arcade st and ssf2) is fei long, in ssf2, only normals he can buffer are close s.fierce, jabs, shorts, and up close strong i believe. in ST, when you pick old fei, almost every normal he has, buffers. c.forward, c.strong, s.fierce far, etc. pretty large difference between st old and ssf2 characters.

    so back to AE. when you pick super mode, you are getting the legitimate ssf2 version of that character. when you hold mode or start (depending on if you use xbox or ps2) when selecting super, you will get the ST old characters, hence the different icon during the fight.

    this is a big confusion that most people have.

    when you legitimately pick old sagat, hes been fucking nerfed to death. hes so slow. in ae, for the most part, they made old sagat basically the same as ssf2 sagat from what it feels like. if you want a sagat thats effective as hell, you have to pick hf sagat or ce sagat. and that shit aint gonna cut it if someone wants to use AE as an st only version, since hf/ce sagat will carry over the retarded dizzy properties.

    hope this clears up a lot of confusion
    AZ fighting game crew, team hAZmat

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  • ToXYToXY Scrubs up? Joined: Posts: 598
    oh so you cant get an arcade perfect o.sagat on AE?
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,675 admin
    NO.

    ["he got nerfed"]xN

    :P
  • SuperkingSuperking dat mooney dolemite Joined: Posts: 2,243
    Can't we just end the whole HSF2 AE-ST arcade perfect argument by saying that AE is not ST and is just supposed to be its own crazy game?

    P.S. Anybody got any good crossups with Claw? :D
    DS: she's looking hot in that interview, fuck, keep in mind, i don't have yellow fever, i just know a hot girl when i see one, gonna rape her and call her julia chang
    Superking: lol
    DS: julia chang for life
  • SaBrESaBrE BAI BAI Joined: Posts: 4,495 mod
    agreed. ae is just its own game.

    anyway, back on topic. vega dive = crossup of ownage. other than that, not really
    AZ fighting game crew, team hAZmat

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  • SuperkingSuperking dat mooney dolemite Joined: Posts: 2,243
    Ok, that's what I figured anyway, the wall dive shenanigans are more than enough.
    DS: she's looking hot in that interview, fuck, keep in mind, i don't have yellow fever, i just know a hot girl when i see one, gonna rape her and call her julia chang
    Superking: lol
    DS: julia chang for life
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,675 admin
    How much do you think using the psx version affected the outcome of evo this year? And do you think that it would have been the same with the DC version?

    Also, were these differences a surprise to the players? It has been announced for some time that the psx version was the one to be used, right?

    Just curious.
  • SaBrESaBrE BAI BAI Joined: Posts: 4,495 mod
    i guaruntee the outcome woulda been drastically different if it was arcade. seeing cole as the only og st player in final 8 is beyond weird. watson, choi getting eliminated rather early is really funky. that NEVER happens. choi's sagat was not on par at all, watch him on arcade later that day and super choi came back full force, owning everyone up in the 3on3 tourney except gian. all his uppercuts were coming out and he was feeling the tiger speeds. on ps1, he clearly was not. watson was frustrated with bisons psycho crusher not going full screen like it should and various other things. kuni was also outraged with ps1 and how it recognizes pp for ppp attacks. so he got a lot of lariats when he wanted spd's. its really frustrating for the players.

    when things dont work the way you are used to having it work, it gets really frustrating and discouraging. especially when you been playing on the arcade version almost exclusively for 11 years.

    also, not taking away from players like nki and dsp. they are very strong players, who can manage top 8 anyways. but i think even buk was suprised at how high he ranked i would think. even tho he was playing well regardless.

    hell, dc is a shit version too. i think the outcome woulda been different, but still not in a good way. when changing to dc, a whole other slew of problems arise. the biggest problem is sprite sizes are way too small. so that means more empty space on the screen which dramatically changes zoning tactics. plus some combos dont work right with the smaller sprites as well.

    its just a no win situation. but its a process that needs to be adapted to since thats where the whole scene is headed, to shitty console
    AZ fighting game crew, team hAZmat

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  • margalismargalis Joined: Posts: 714
    The fact that players complained about "differences" that ended up NOT being different makes me think the versions didn't affect much at all, or they did but not in the way people think.

    Not to pick on people, but if someone is saying "WTF, in the arcade you can't duck that!" or "OMG, in the arcade this does way more damage!" and that turns out to be bogus, it doesn't seem to me they are all that detail-oriented to begin with. If they can't tell the difference and can only spot bogus differences, it's hard to believe it had much effect.

    We aren't talking like A3 PSX or A2 Gold vs. Normal where there are pretty immediately obvious, game-changing differences.
  • ParryAllParryAll Dangerous Posts Joined: Posts: 2,996
    Pardon my ignorance, what is a Supergun??
    "Third Strike just has that flow which somehow alienates you from your surroundings and really plugs your brain into the match your playing and your able to comprehend so many different situations and mind games and mixups in such a limited amount of time and all this without even thinking" - Nubilous

    "[3rd Strike] makes you feel like the character is an extension of yourself when you get good enough." - AzureWolf

    "Street Fighter is now like The Simpsons. It's been bad longer than it's been good." -ParryAll
  • ToodlesToodles da Fetus of Gawd! Joined: Posts: 10,778
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SuperGun
    A device that allows you to play arcade PCBs like the arcade SuperTurbo on a TV. 100% authentic arcade game without the hassle of a full cabinet.
  • Golden_GunmanGolden_Gunman Joined: Posts: 636
    This is a great thread, but this is an idea for the moderators: Move parts of this thread into character specific threads in the "Other Games" section of the site. There is some absolute golddust here for any ST player, but you have to read through many pages split across two threads to get it. I think there should be a "complete" thread for every character, similarly to how it is laid out in some of the 3S sections. You could have "The complete Chun-Li ST thread," for example. Put a description of all her move-sets and strats, and then deal with character specific match-ups. Granted, you wouldn't get as much traffic as in this thread, but it would make things a LOT easier.

    Maybe you could then keep this thread and in the first post just put a "linker" to every one of the "complete" threads.

    Anyway, back to the spirit of this thread: I have a question, how do you deal with O.Sagat with N.Ken? Those tiger shots are so much faster than Ken's hado's. If I can get close enough I can psychic DP his long limbs when he throws one, or I can get in and Knee-bash throw shenanigans, but it is just really hard to get close. Even Ken's air hurricane is owned by Sagat. Any tips?
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,675 admin
    Question, how do you combo guile's super. I've been trying to cancel crouch strong into it, but it just aint happening.

    I've tried:
    1.strong xx cdb, df, db, uf+K - super comes out too late and doesn't combo
    2.cdb, df+strong, db, uf+K
    3.cdb, df, db+strong, uf+K
    These two just end up as strongs cancelling into flash kicks.

    I also tried changing the last part to ub+K cause its quicker but still nothing. Whats the proper method of cancelling crouching strong or any other crouching attack with guile into super?

    Thanks in advance
    r3ko
  • kesh!kesh! It's all up to Y O U Joined: Posts: 524
    haha wtf i can never get guiles super off :((( I tried my hardest doing a 'smooth motion' like

    cdb, d, df, d, db, d, df, f , uf + k that doesnt work :( am i going too slow?
  • DeskDesk ハイパー・ディーサイド・デスク Joined: Posts: 705
    r3ko wrote:
    3.cdb, df, db+strong, uf+K

    it's that one, except hit ub+k insted. I like to kinda roll the stick from df all the way to up back (like a half rotation) hitting strong half way, i find it easier that way.

    so the motion would be...cdb, df, d, db+strong, b, ub+k.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,675 admin
    Thanks alot, its working now, with some practice i'm sure i'll be able to get it off fairly consistently, the damage it does is deals out is impressive.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,675 admin
    r3ko wrote:
    Question, how do you combo guile's super. I've been trying to cancel crouch strong into it, but it just aint happening.

    It's much easier (and more practical) to do 2 d.LKs or d.LPs into it. You can also hit-confirm this way and do it after crossup j.LK.

    d.LP x2, super flash kick motion+LP~HK
    or
    d.LK x2, super flash kick motion+LK~HK

    I think it's kara or renda cancelling or something.. meh, whatever it is, it is MUCH easier than straight up cancelling.
  • Master_ChibiMaster_Chibi .: Dynamites! :. Joined: Posts: 15,006 mod
    NKI, JSJ, Sabre, whoever, can you guys suggest a character to start with for a begining player? Every time I play this game I feel stupid, the game doesn't sit well / feel right with me, and I'd like to remedy that. I'm not looking to win tournaments, just have some fun with it is all.

    ;p
    ~*Hai! Back to Japan!
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,675 admin
    NKI, JSJ, Sabre, whoever, can you guys suggest a character to start with for a begining player? Every time I play this game I feel stupid, the game doesn't sit well / feel right with me, and I'd like to remedy that. I'm not looking to win tournaments, just have some fun with it is all.

    ;p



    well a gurly man like yourself should play with chun li.
  • Duck StrongDuck Strong Yin to all Yang Joined: Posts: 7,781
    NKI, JSJ, Sabre, whoever, can you guys suggest a character to start with for a begining player? Every time I play this game I feel stupid, the game doesn't sit well / feel right with me, and I'd like to remedy that. I'm not looking to win tournaments, just have some fun with it is all.

    ;p

    OG Ken is pretty simple.
    My youtube channel (various MVC3 vids etc.):

    http://www.youtube.com/user/CrouchStrong?feature=mhsn
  • SuperkingSuperking dat mooney dolemite Joined: Posts: 2,243
    Claw and Boxer are both ownage, not saying that you should start with them just saying. :tup:
    DS: she's looking hot in that interview, fuck, keep in mind, i don't have yellow fever, i just know a hot girl when i see one, gonna rape her and call her julia chang
    Superking: lol
    DS: julia chang for life
  • Master_ChibiMaster_Chibi .: Dynamites! :. Joined: Posts: 15,006 mod
    This game is alot more dependant on normals and knowing what beats what than much anything else I played, I've noticed that much.

    I am leaning towards Chun-Li though.

    ;D
    ~*Hai! Back to Japan!
  • Gen-AnGen-An 何で彼女出来ない? Joined: Posts: 616
    Dictator (Bison/Vega) is pretty easy to use IMO, and more than anything he is FUN!!!
    Cast in the name of God, ye not guilty
  • BuktoothBuktooth vietnamazing Joined: Posts: 1,713 mod
    fools are lucky i wasnt in the 3on3

    THATS RIGHT I SAID IT

    ..

    how come gian wins every throw battle against me (and not against nuki)?
    -Campbell Tran

    as of 12/02/09:

    me: did pz john ever give the japanese players their money
    bas: hahah of course no
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,675 admin
    And how come NKI is the goddamn sexiness? Besides playing XvSF, I am a psychic. Behold:

    http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97513

    What's up Buk? I'm Victor, I met you playing random a3 and st matches in Valle's room at like 9 am. Good shit dood. Too bad you're a bully.

    -vic
  • Saotome KanedaSaotome Kaneda Watch your back Joined: Posts: 5,332 mod
    Buktooth wrote:
    fools are lucky i wasnt in the 3on3

    THATS RIGHT I SAID IT

    ..

    how come gian wins every throw battle against me (and not against nuki)?
    Haha

    No Vietnambush for you this year, huh? =p
    Original Team Sp00ky Member - Only the finest of Poverty™ Gaming Hipster™
    Comic-Z vs Super Metroid Watch if you want to lose your mind
  • RenegadeRenegade Joined: Posts: 3,128 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Ok... I have to ask this... NKI... what the hell was up with the character selection in Top 8 this year?

    4 chuns? (you, buk, nuki, tokido) (even though I saw tokido use Vega too)

    What the heck was with that? I know Chun's pretty good... but isn't she strictly mid tier in this game? (dhalsim+bosses=top, then come shotos+ dee jay).

    And the counterpoint, where was O.Sagat? Chun's most feared counter character?

    And, my friend Billy was discussing the Vega "soft ban" in Japan that people have talked about. Which made me think that when I went to Japan, I saw vega's being played (a really cheap CE vega at MORE). Is the "soft ban" thing really true? I'm starting to think not.

    Thanks for your time
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  • margalismargalis Joined: Posts: 714
    Actually I think dictator is one of the harder characters to use at first. He has nothing abusable at all.

    Easy players to start with, I would say DJ is pretty easy. He has an ansti-air special, a fireball, decent normals, a crossup, etc. OG Ken is a good choice, any Ryu is a good choice. OG Boxer is a good choice as well. (And OG Boxer is pretty good to boot, very underrated.)
  • ThyAllMightyThyAllMighty ImDaBes Joined: Posts: 1,727
    how is og ken diff from new ken? also, other than knee bash trickery and short short super, what is new ken good at? (i'm picking him up)

    i'm also picking up feilong, any tips with him other than whoring lk firedp?
    i play fighting games for the drinking
  • SpinalBloodSpinalBlood Sagat Wins Joined: Posts: 252
    Maybe better cross-ups

    Anyway, ST is the dogs!
  • sondoggsondogg moo Joined: Posts: 52
    I need help on a ryu vs fei long matchup I have no idea what to do in that situation and in short, I got raped by sabre in my ST pool last week.
  • SaBrESaBrE BAI BAI Joined: Posts: 4,495 mod
    oh hehe i played you? i remember.

    big thing with fighting fei long with a shoto is you cannot wiff against him. when fei sits outside of shotos maximum effective range, you just make the shoto player barely wiff a low forward/sweep/dp, and its free rekka all day. definitely need to know your ranges with shotos in that matchup or you will eat rekkas all day. good thing to do if fei is that close on you and jumping ends up not working, is use fireballs in his face when fei is sitting right outside the shotos max range. its fast enough to where he cant react, and he cant do rekkas. but the fei player can predict this and do an early jump or try and hit you with a dp (feis initial dp frames have insanely good range) so you still need to be wary.

    easiest way to beat fei tho, is just zone him out. get away from him, get breathing space, and force him to jump over fireballs. and sweep fei everytime he lands. as far as i know, fei has no jumpins to beat a shoto's AA sweep from max distance. from that range, fei has a VERY VERY hard fight. if its n.fei, he has a better chance to get inside with using his jackknife kicks(or whatever its called), if its o.fei, its damn near impossible for him to win when he gets stuck in the fireball sweep loop.

    hope that kinda helped bud
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  • I Am LotharI Am Lothar ಠ_ಠ Joined: Posts: 2,798
    Does anyone want to write an easy mode ST Dhalsim guide for me? I want to pick him up but I haven't found much basic info on him. Just the basics would be great, thanks in advance.

    Repost because Search is failing like a Southern abortion.
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  • ParryPerson.ParryPerson. It is done. Joined: Posts: 4,011
    Help my sagat not be so damn scrubby.

    I throw tigers then uppercut obvious fuck up jump-ins and Cr.RH sometimes all day.

    Make me un scrubby.
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  • Hol HorseHol Horse a.k.a. Fugo ~ イタリアの強大なユリアン Joined: Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    margalis wrote:
    Actually I think dictator is one of the harder characters to use at first. He has nothing abusable at all.

    st. Short ticks/mixups are quite abusable IMHO.
    gooby plz
  • VintageVintage Anticipating... Joined: Posts: 311
    NKI wrote:
    Same thing you should do as N.Ryu against Sim, and the same thing I do in practically every match when playing as Chun: don't fight until you have meter. The round is totally different (in your favor) when you have meter, so why bother attacking before then? Just trade fireballs, Short HK over some low ones, etc until you get meter. Yeah, you may have to block a few, but that's OK. He'll stop shooting once you get that meter.



    -Nicholai!

    Which is precisely why I think HF>ST

    I know, some may think wow, Vin is hating on ST again. But no, I'm not. I think ST IS a good game. It's just that it's far from being the best SF2 game. Everytime I play ST I just can't stop pondering:

    So, if my opponent didn't have a meter, would he just get peaced out in 15secs? He may or may not. Either way, it's difficult for me to come to the conclusion that many ST players that choose chars with the meter have some sort of old skool foundation (and yes, I do realize that there are those exceptional few). Like if they were to play HF or CE, would they still be somewhat successful? Meh, my ST rant is done...for now.
    Driven beyond obsession
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,675 admin
    st. Short ticks/mixups are quite abusable IMHO.

    He has to get close first, which is not an easy task most of the times.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,675 admin
    Bison blocked scissors into throw is a friggin' combo I swear. :P
  • Saotome KanedaSaotome Kaneda Watch your back Joined: Posts: 5,332 mod
    Help my sagat not be so damn scrubby.

    I throw tigers then uppercut obvious fuck up jump-ins and Cr.RH sometimes all day.

    Make me un scrubby.
    Umm...Walk up s.Shorts? Psychic Tiger Uppercut limbs? There's actually not much to Sagat, any version of him. Whiff Tiger Knee on crouchers XX throw works every so often....:confused:
    Original Team Sp00ky Member - Only the finest of Poverty™ Gaming Hipster™
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  • JeRonJeRon The Dictatorship Joined: Posts: 968
    People should play AE since ST is mad old already.
    ST infinity!!! :karate:

    Vega is top 2 in the game!

    Gaygaaaaaa!!!!!
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  • Spider-DanSpider-Dan Joined: Posts: 1,003
    NKI wrote:
    O.Sim can't do it because the slide is counted as a far move, and because you can't control O.Sim's normals, he automatically does the close cr.Forward (N.Sim's D/B+Forward kick). I really see absolutely no reason to ever play O.Sim, because as far as I know, he has no advantages over N.Sim, only disadvantages.
    Supposedly, O.Sim has slightly longer throw range.
    I May Be Wrong, but I Doubt It
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,675 admin
    O.Sagat........

    ...there's really not much to him once you learn the basics.

    From far away, throw low tigers to pin them down. When they jump, Tiger uppercut of they are close enough, if not do standing FP to knock them out of the air.

    When jumping, always use jump RH, it magically beats a million things and does massive damage on connect. If you happen to land a jumping RH, combo into either:
    1. low forward kick, roundhouse tiger shot (sometimes dizzies)
    2. stand light kick (1-2 hits depending on distance), roundhouse tiger shot
    3. if you land DEEP, 1-2 hit standing forward kick with OPTION of either 1-hit Tiger uppercut or roundhouse tiger knee for 1-2 hits.

    Basically what you want to choose as your combo depends on your distance from your opponent. If you want to go for a quick dizzy and you've landed deep enough, go for the low forward kick into tiger shot. However, this doesn't always combo if you're not close enough and also doesn't always dizzy. A more reliable combo is option 2, where the stand light kick ALWAYS connects for 1-2 hits and then the tiger shot is guaranteed. If you get lucky enough to connect the jump RH and you land deep, do the standing forward and judging on the results, either cancel into Tiger uppercut after 1 hit or go for the gold with the 2-hit tiger knee if the forward is deep enough to land twice.

    What do you do if your jump RH doesn't connect, and they block? In that case either do a blocked standing light kick into tiger shot, or just do the roundhouse tiger shot by itself as soon as you land. This will keep them pinned and taking a bit of block damage.

    Now if you end up close, O.Sagat has two awesome options. One is simply his low roundhouse, which is very fast, has decent range, and does a crapload of damage. If you time it right, you can play a wicked game of footsies that will really damage the opponent if they're just slightly out of range and keep whiffing, and you just sweep to punish them afterwards. The other option is just stand light kick, with the option of following with a roundhouse tiger shot. This is good for guaranteed block damage and you don't have to worry about missing and getting counter-swept, since the stand light kick has considerable range and keeps them blocking.

    My only warning with O.Sagat is getting over-zealous. DON'T do too many "psychic" tiger uppercuts or you will be getting your ass handed to you. Also, don't try to play TOO many footsies with stand short or crouching roundhouse and just assume you're going to hit every time...sometimes you can get stuffed with DPs or special moves and it can get frustrating to get back to your "zone game" when the opponent has control of the round after a knockdown.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,675 admin
    Also to Vintage:

    Considering that only a handful of the ST cast have useful supers....namely Chun, Ryu, Dhalsim, Honda, Vega (dictator), and Balrog (the boxer), I don't see how the issue of people "being good without super bar" is an issue at all. I play Balrog, Blanka and Dee Jay primarily, and to be totally honest their supers blow. The only reason I ever connect with a Blanka super is because people see it so rarely, they don't understand it's properties and end up trying to jump or hit it instead of just blocking. Most supers are slow and absolute garbage in this game, so to argue that supers are scrubby or whatever your point is, doesn't really make sense.

    And yes, we can all play CE and HF, thanks!
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,675 admin
    Somebody help me out with beating E. Honda? I use Guile, and Balrog(claw).

    What are my best Jump-in options with Guile and Balrog(if that is the thing to do)?

    Should I turtle? cause with Guile, I normally play aggressive, I just don't normally understand this match-up. I'm normallly real good with pressure and flash kick traps and such, but it just seems like a tough match-up for me, seeing as I don't know many people who play with Honda, and it seems like a 50/50 match-up to me.plus I constantly get caught up in the bacbreaker grab into thousand hand slap in the corner. I know he shouldn't even get that close, but he does psychic headbutts and he makes me whiff flashkicks by doing the lp version of the move. I use the Champion edition version of Guile or the turbo version. Sometimes the ST version.

    It seems like an easier match-up for Balrog, considering his pokes and air game, but lately he's been improving on it. He's learning not to jump-in as much, and he's playing alot safer, more turtleing, and stuff like that

    Any input?

    -Fritz




    I can answer this for Balrog:

    You DON'T beat Honda.

    This is one of ST's clear-cut counter matches. The reason? As soon as the game says FIGHT, Honda holds down-back to start charging his headbutt. And from then on, you are fucked.

    If you try to walk forward, he does fierce headbutt and you are forced to block, while he gets his charge back.

    If you jump forward, no matter what button you press you WILL be eating a version of the headbutt.

    If you just jump around like a fool all day, it becomes a guessing game if he will or will not do the headbutt. A good Honda will NOT make a move until you advance towards him and then he will headbutt and make you block or eat the move.

    Contrary to popular belief, you can't wall dive all day. If you try to walldive on either side, if your claw comes into contact with Honda's body he has the ability to do a jab punch headbutt and get a clean hit.

    Basically, the ONLY way to fight Honda with Vega is to cause him to make mistakes. Do a bunch of crouching short kicks, try to walk up to him and jump OVER making him lose his charge and then attempt throw setups, etc. But if you're fighting even a half-decent Honda, you will get peaced out and there's nothing you can do if he just sits still and never attacks.


    When you see Cigarbob's 3v3 Team ST footage, this is exactly what happens to me. We are playing some random team and a Honda player just sits still and refuses to attack me, causing me to try to get him to move with a few jumps, random attacks, and wall dives. All of which get hit clean by headbutts. At one point I even take my hands off the controls and you'll hear me say to the camera "theres nothing I can do, I can't press buttons." Gay, yes, but true nonetheless.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,675 admin
    Kyoji wrote:
    Can't we just end the whole HSF2 AE-ST arcade perfect argument by saying that AE is not ST and is just supposed to be its own crazy game?

    P.S. Anybody got any good crossups with Claw? :D

    A good question is, why are you trying to crossup with Balrog? Balrog is a poking and throwing character, 0% of his strategy is based on crossups. If you're going to try jump attacks, always use a slightly early jump RH, and when you land your actions depends on if it hit or not:
    1. if the roundhouse hit, do crouching forward kick comboed into crouching MP. this does pretty hefty damage for a 3-hit combo and if you just hit him a few times, he will dizzy.
    2. if the roundhouse is blocked, depending on your distance from the opponent you have the option of trying to throw, or doing a crouching MP or slide. Be CAREFUL with the slide because you NEVER want to slide when close, it leaves you wide open.

    Hope this helps, cut it out with the crossups! Just like Sabre said the only time to ever cross up with Vega is a random wall dive.
  • el_diabloel_diablo Joined: Posts: 283
    Considering that only a handful of the ST cast have useful supers....namely[...] Honda

    care to explain why do you think his super is useful? except in pretty hard to do combos and negating 1 projectile, that shit almost never combos, and startup is not really good.

    I'm just curious since I play honda a little, and I don't have any uses for that super.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,675 admin
    mukai wrote:
    well a gurly man like yourself should play with chun li.

    In my opinion, good beginning character choices are New Ryu and Dee Jay. New Ryu is just really good all-around and gets you the basic idea behind shoto play...fireball traps, uppercut, sweep, etc. Getting a base with New Ryu can set you up to play with both versions of Ken and O.Sagat.

    Dee Jay is a great charge character to use as a beginner, and he doesn't have a lot of hardcore "counter" matches to worry about. You learn how to retain both types of charges properly and how to deal with "jumpers" (people who jump over your fireball once you throw it) without having a DP like a shoto.


    Once you learn those basics, branch out. Try the other shotos or Guile/Chun. Then you can move on to the weirdoes like Honda, Balrog, Vega and Bison. Or you can just pick Sim, you stretchy-armed whore.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,675 admin
    el_diablo wrote:
    care to explain why do you think his super is useful? except in pretty hard to do combos and negating 1 projectile, that shit almost never combos, and startup is not really good.

    I'm just curious since I play honda a little, and I don't have any uses for that super.

    Simply put, he can store the super. Because you can store the super, you get all kinds of fake-outs that can put pressure on your opponent and force them into the corner...which is exactly what you're looking to do with Honda.

    Do the super motion and keep holding forward without pressing punch, then quickly jump forward, and crouch down-forward instead of down-back like usual when you land. The opponent thinks you're blocking backwards and tries to attack with footies or throw a fireball. Just press forward and punch to unlease the beast and blast through whatever it is they're trying to do. OOPS, they crapped their pants and ate a decent amount of damage.

    The super is very BAD for anti-air uses, for sure. Sometimes it whiffs completely or trades or only hits once, leaving you open afterwards. It's also best used at close to mid-range...at far range it doesn't hit properly when it finally arrives.
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