Super Street Fighter II Turbo, in the house

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  • ThyAllMightyThyAllMighty ImDaBes Joined: Posts: 1,727
    how is og ken diff from new ken? also, other than knee bash trickery and short short super, what is new ken good at? (i'm picking him up)

    i'm also picking up feilong, any tips with him other than whoring lk firedp?
    i play fighting games for the drinking
  • SpinalBloodSpinalBlood Sagat Wins Joined: Posts: 252
    Maybe better cross-ups

    Anyway, ST is the dogs!
  • sondoggsondogg moo Joined: Posts: 52
    I need help on a ryu vs fei long matchup I have no idea what to do in that situation and in short, I got raped by sabre in my ST pool last week.
  • SaBrESaBrE BAI BAI Joined: Posts: 4,495 mod
    oh hehe i played you? i remember.

    big thing with fighting fei long with a shoto is you cannot wiff against him. when fei sits outside of shotos maximum effective range, you just make the shoto player barely wiff a low forward/sweep/dp, and its free rekka all day. definitely need to know your ranges with shotos in that matchup or you will eat rekkas all day. good thing to do if fei is that close on you and jumping ends up not working, is use fireballs in his face when fei is sitting right outside the shotos max range. its fast enough to where he cant react, and he cant do rekkas. but the fei player can predict this and do an early jump or try and hit you with a dp (feis initial dp frames have insanely good range) so you still need to be wary.

    easiest way to beat fei tho, is just zone him out. get away from him, get breathing space, and force him to jump over fireballs. and sweep fei everytime he lands. as far as i know, fei has no jumpins to beat a shoto's AA sweep from max distance. from that range, fei has a VERY VERY hard fight. if its n.fei, he has a better chance to get inside with using his jackknife kicks(or whatever its called), if its o.fei, its damn near impossible for him to win when he gets stuck in the fireball sweep loop.

    hope that kinda helped bud
    AZ fighting game crew, team hAZmat

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  • I Am LotharI Am Lothar ಠ_ಠ Joined: Posts: 2,798
    Does anyone want to write an easy mode ST Dhalsim guide for me? I want to pick him up but I haven't found much basic info on him. Just the basics would be great, thanks in advance.

    Repost because Search is failing like a Southern abortion.
    AIM: SubtleDagger256
  • ParryPerson.ParryPerson. It is done. Joined: Posts: 4,011
    Help my sagat not be so damn scrubby.

    I throw tigers then uppercut obvious fuck up jump-ins and Cr.RH sometimes all day.

    Make me un scrubby.
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  • Hol HorseHol Horse a.k.a. Fugo ~ イタリアの強大なユリアン Joined: Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    margalis wrote:
    Actually I think dictator is one of the harder characters to use at first. He has nothing abusable at all.

    st. Short ticks/mixups are quite abusable IMHO.
    gooby plz
  • VintageVintage Anticipating... Joined: Posts: 311
    NKI wrote:
    Same thing you should do as N.Ryu against Sim, and the same thing I do in practically every match when playing as Chun: don't fight until you have meter. The round is totally different (in your favor) when you have meter, so why bother attacking before then? Just trade fireballs, Short HK over some low ones, etc until you get meter. Yeah, you may have to block a few, but that's OK. He'll stop shooting once you get that meter.



    -Nicholai!

    Which is precisely why I think HF>ST

    I know, some may think wow, Vin is hating on ST again. But no, I'm not. I think ST IS a good game. It's just that it's far from being the best SF2 game. Everytime I play ST I just can't stop pondering:

    So, if my opponent didn't have a meter, would he just get peaced out in 15secs? He may or may not. Either way, it's difficult for me to come to the conclusion that many ST players that choose chars with the meter have some sort of old skool foundation (and yes, I do realize that there are those exceptional few). Like if they were to play HF or CE, would they still be somewhat successful? Meh, my ST rant is done...for now.
    Driven beyond obsession
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    st. Short ticks/mixups are quite abusable IMHO.

    He has to get close first, which is not an easy task most of the times.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Bison blocked scissors into throw is a friggin' combo I swear. :P
  • Saotome KanedaSaotome Kaneda Watch your back Joined: Posts: 5,332 mod
    Help my sagat not be so damn scrubby.

    I throw tigers then uppercut obvious fuck up jump-ins and Cr.RH sometimes all day.

    Make me un scrubby.
    Umm...Walk up s.Shorts? Psychic Tiger Uppercut limbs? There's actually not much to Sagat, any version of him. Whiff Tiger Knee on crouchers XX throw works every so often....:confused:
    Original Team Sp00ky Member - Only the finest of Poverty™ Gaming Hipster™
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  • JeRonJeRon The Dictatorship Joined: Posts: 968
    People should play AE since ST is mad old already.
    ST infinity!!! :karate:

    Vega is top 2 in the game!

    Gaygaaaaaa!!!!!
    I will win with skill! Quote dedicated to ChunLi Zhang, Strongest woman in the world!
  • Spider-DanSpider-Dan Joined: Posts: 1,003
    NKI wrote:
    O.Sim can't do it because the slide is counted as a far move, and because you can't control O.Sim's normals, he automatically does the close cr.Forward (N.Sim's D/B+Forward kick). I really see absolutely no reason to ever play O.Sim, because as far as I know, he has no advantages over N.Sim, only disadvantages.
    Supposedly, O.Sim has slightly longer throw range.
    I May Be Wrong, but I Doubt It
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    O.Sagat........

    ...there's really not much to him once you learn the basics.

    From far away, throw low tigers to pin them down. When they jump, Tiger uppercut of they are close enough, if not do standing FP to knock them out of the air.

    When jumping, always use jump RH, it magically beats a million things and does massive damage on connect. If you happen to land a jumping RH, combo into either:
    1. low forward kick, roundhouse tiger shot (sometimes dizzies)
    2. stand light kick (1-2 hits depending on distance), roundhouse tiger shot
    3. if you land DEEP, 1-2 hit standing forward kick with OPTION of either 1-hit Tiger uppercut or roundhouse tiger knee for 1-2 hits.

    Basically what you want to choose as your combo depends on your distance from your opponent. If you want to go for a quick dizzy and you've landed deep enough, go for the low forward kick into tiger shot. However, this doesn't always combo if you're not close enough and also doesn't always dizzy. A more reliable combo is option 2, where the stand light kick ALWAYS connects for 1-2 hits and then the tiger shot is guaranteed. If you get lucky enough to connect the jump RH and you land deep, do the standing forward and judging on the results, either cancel into Tiger uppercut after 1 hit or go for the gold with the 2-hit tiger knee if the forward is deep enough to land twice.

    What do you do if your jump RH doesn't connect, and they block? In that case either do a blocked standing light kick into tiger shot, or just do the roundhouse tiger shot by itself as soon as you land. This will keep them pinned and taking a bit of block damage.

    Now if you end up close, O.Sagat has two awesome options. One is simply his low roundhouse, which is very fast, has decent range, and does a crapload of damage. If you time it right, you can play a wicked game of footsies that will really damage the opponent if they're just slightly out of range and keep whiffing, and you just sweep to punish them afterwards. The other option is just stand light kick, with the option of following with a roundhouse tiger shot. This is good for guaranteed block damage and you don't have to worry about missing and getting counter-swept, since the stand light kick has considerable range and keeps them blocking.

    My only warning with O.Sagat is getting over-zealous. DON'T do too many "psychic" tiger uppercuts or you will be getting your ass handed to you. Also, don't try to play TOO many footsies with stand short or crouching roundhouse and just assume you're going to hit every time...sometimes you can get stuffed with DPs or special moves and it can get frustrating to get back to your "zone game" when the opponent has control of the round after a knockdown.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Also to Vintage:

    Considering that only a handful of the ST cast have useful supers....namely Chun, Ryu, Dhalsim, Honda, Vega (dictator), and Balrog (the boxer), I don't see how the issue of people "being good without super bar" is an issue at all. I play Balrog, Blanka and Dee Jay primarily, and to be totally honest their supers blow. The only reason I ever connect with a Blanka super is because people see it so rarely, they don't understand it's properties and end up trying to jump or hit it instead of just blocking. Most supers are slow and absolute garbage in this game, so to argue that supers are scrubby or whatever your point is, doesn't really make sense.

    And yes, we can all play CE and HF, thanks!
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Somebody help me out with beating E. Honda? I use Guile, and Balrog(claw).

    What are my best Jump-in options with Guile and Balrog(if that is the thing to do)?

    Should I turtle? cause with Guile, I normally play aggressive, I just don't normally understand this match-up. I'm normallly real good with pressure and flash kick traps and such, but it just seems like a tough match-up for me, seeing as I don't know many people who play with Honda, and it seems like a 50/50 match-up to me.plus I constantly get caught up in the bacbreaker grab into thousand hand slap in the corner. I know he shouldn't even get that close, but he does psychic headbutts and he makes me whiff flashkicks by doing the lp version of the move. I use the Champion edition version of Guile or the turbo version. Sometimes the ST version.

    It seems like an easier match-up for Balrog, considering his pokes and air game, but lately he's been improving on it. He's learning not to jump-in as much, and he's playing alot safer, more turtleing, and stuff like that

    Any input?

    -Fritz




    I can answer this for Balrog:

    You DON'T beat Honda.

    This is one of ST's clear-cut counter matches. The reason? As soon as the game says FIGHT, Honda holds down-back to start charging his headbutt. And from then on, you are fucked.

    If you try to walk forward, he does fierce headbutt and you are forced to block, while he gets his charge back.

    If you jump forward, no matter what button you press you WILL be eating a version of the headbutt.

    If you just jump around like a fool all day, it becomes a guessing game if he will or will not do the headbutt. A good Honda will NOT make a move until you advance towards him and then he will headbutt and make you block or eat the move.

    Contrary to popular belief, you can't wall dive all day. If you try to walldive on either side, if your claw comes into contact with Honda's body he has the ability to do a jab punch headbutt and get a clean hit.

    Basically, the ONLY way to fight Honda with Vega is to cause him to make mistakes. Do a bunch of crouching short kicks, try to walk up to him and jump OVER making him lose his charge and then attempt throw setups, etc. But if you're fighting even a half-decent Honda, you will get peaced out and there's nothing you can do if he just sits still and never attacks.


    When you see Cigarbob's 3v3 Team ST footage, this is exactly what happens to me. We are playing some random team and a Honda player just sits still and refuses to attack me, causing me to try to get him to move with a few jumps, random attacks, and wall dives. All of which get hit clean by headbutts. At one point I even take my hands off the controls and you'll hear me say to the camera "theres nothing I can do, I can't press buttons." Gay, yes, but true nonetheless.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Kyoji wrote:
    Can't we just end the whole HSF2 AE-ST arcade perfect argument by saying that AE is not ST and is just supposed to be its own crazy game?

    P.S. Anybody got any good crossups with Claw? :D

    A good question is, why are you trying to crossup with Balrog? Balrog is a poking and throwing character, 0% of his strategy is based on crossups. If you're going to try jump attacks, always use a slightly early jump RH, and when you land your actions depends on if it hit or not:
    1. if the roundhouse hit, do crouching forward kick comboed into crouching MP. this does pretty hefty damage for a 3-hit combo and if you just hit him a few times, he will dizzy.
    2. if the roundhouse is blocked, depending on your distance from the opponent you have the option of trying to throw, or doing a crouching MP or slide. Be CAREFUL with the slide because you NEVER want to slide when close, it leaves you wide open.

    Hope this helps, cut it out with the crossups! Just like Sabre said the only time to ever cross up with Vega is a random wall dive.
  • el_diabloel_diablo Joined: Posts: 283 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Considering that only a handful of the ST cast have useful supers....namely[...] Honda

    care to explain why do you think his super is useful? except in pretty hard to do combos and negating 1 projectile, that shit almost never combos, and startup is not really good.

    I'm just curious since I play honda a little, and I don't have any uses for that super.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    mukai wrote:
    well a gurly man like yourself should play with chun li.

    In my opinion, good beginning character choices are New Ryu and Dee Jay. New Ryu is just really good all-around and gets you the basic idea behind shoto play...fireball traps, uppercut, sweep, etc. Getting a base with New Ryu can set you up to play with both versions of Ken and O.Sagat.

    Dee Jay is a great charge character to use as a beginner, and he doesn't have a lot of hardcore "counter" matches to worry about. You learn how to retain both types of charges properly and how to deal with "jumpers" (people who jump over your fireball once you throw it) without having a DP like a shoto.


    Once you learn those basics, branch out. Try the other shotos or Guile/Chun. Then you can move on to the weirdoes like Honda, Balrog, Vega and Bison. Or you can just pick Sim, you stretchy-armed whore.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    el_diablo wrote:
    care to explain why do you think his super is useful? except in pretty hard to do combos and negating 1 projectile, that shit almost never combos, and startup is not really good.

    I'm just curious since I play honda a little, and I don't have any uses for that super.

    Simply put, he can store the super. Because you can store the super, you get all kinds of fake-outs that can put pressure on your opponent and force them into the corner...which is exactly what you're looking to do with Honda.

    Do the super motion and keep holding forward without pressing punch, then quickly jump forward, and crouch down-forward instead of down-back like usual when you land. The opponent thinks you're blocking backwards and tries to attack with footies or throw a fireball. Just press forward and punch to unlease the beast and blast through whatever it is they're trying to do. OOPS, they crapped their pants and ate a decent amount of damage.

    The super is very BAD for anti-air uses, for sure. Sometimes it whiffs completely or trades or only hits once, leaving you open afterwards. It's also best used at close to mid-range...at far range it doesn't hit properly when it finally arrives.
  • el_diabloel_diablo Joined: Posts: 283 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    that's how i use it, but it doesn't seem really reliable. even from close to mid, i store it, try to go through hados or whatever, and when the first hit lands, it never combos afterward.

    so here's my question. using it to go through hados makes it harder to land all the hits, or is the super THAT random?
  • ParryPerson.ParryPerson. It is done. Joined: Posts: 4,011
    Thanks for the good O.Sagat shit DarksydePhil
    Avatar by Muffin
    #LAFGC on EFNet

    <MrWizard> ive pre banned parry from evo south
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  • I Am LotharI Am Lothar ಠ_ಠ Joined: Posts: 2,798
    Darksyde do a quick write up for N.Dhalsim.
    AIM: SubtleDagger256
  • margalismargalis Joined: Posts: 714
    Considering that only a handful of the ST cast have useful supers....namely Chun, Ryu, Dhalsim, Honda, Vega (dictator), and Balrog (the boxer), I don't see how the issue of people "being good without super bar" is an issue at all.

    Zangief and T. Hawk both have useful supers, assuming you can tick into them, which isn't hard.

    Of course, you list of guys with useful supers is pretty close to the list of top characters - certainly not all coincidence. All the storable supers are silly, really a stupid bug that never should have made it into the game. Chun's is probably the worst when combined with her fast foot speed, it's a get out of jail free card when she's way behind, store the super, walk up, mix up throws and supers and maybe you'll get lucky and win when you really shouldn't have. It's retarded that you can get 40% damage for just releasing a button at the right time.

    As far as Vega vs. Honda is concerned...don't get behind. Nothing says you have to attack. The other thing you can do is walk towards Honda mixing with a liberal amount of jumping backwards and kicking. It's basically the same matchup as Blanka vs. Honda.
  • Saotome KanedaSaotome Kaneda Watch your back Joined: Posts: 5,332 mod
    We are playing some random team and a Honda player just sits still and refuses to attack me, causing me to try to get him to move with a few jumps, random attacks, and wall dives. All of which get hit clean by headbutts. At one point I even take my hands off the controls and you'll hear me say to the camera "theres nothing I can do, I can't press buttons."

    Damn, here's a guy I haven't seen post in like, a year. 'sup DSP? Good shit at Evo bro.

    That is a sad matchup though. =/ What other matchups are actually positive for Honda?
    Original Team Sp00ky Member - Only the finest of Poverty™ Gaming Hipster™
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    margalis wrote:
    Zangief and T. Hawk both have useful supers, assuming you can tick into them, which isn't hard.

    Of course, you list of guys with useful supers is pretty close to the list of top characters - certainly not all coincidence. All the storable supers are silly, really a stupid bug that never should have made it into the game. Chun's is probably the worst when combined with her fast foot speed, it's a get out of jail free card when she's way behind, store the super, walk up, mix up throws and supers and maybe you'll get lucky and win when you really shouldn't have. It's retarded that you can get 40% damage for just releasing a button at the right time.

    As far as Vega vs. Honda is concerned...don't get behind. Nothing says you have to attack. The other thing you can do is walk towards Honda mixing with a liberal amount of jumping backwards and kicking. It's basically the same matchup as Blanka vs. Honda.


    If you think having supers that take forever to build up and that it's just as easy to land those throw supers as the ones I listed, you must be better than Kuni at tick throwing!

    My list of useful supers is most definitely not the top tier list of the game. Chun isn't top, Honda certainly isn't top, Ryu is probably just below top, Dictator Bison isn't top. In fact, if you look at the true top tier of the game - arguably Vega (claw), O.Sagat, O.Ken, and N.Dhalsim, only ONE of them uses a super effectively.

    Is charging supers a glitch? Yes, it is. But honestly, so is comboing three air hyper vipers beams with Cable...the creators of the game didn't expect the charge system of ST, or the air-super system of MvC2, to work that way, but it just ended up being like that. People have grown to accept it. It may give Chun an advantage in certain situations, yes, but it's certainly not game-breaking.

    As for the Honda-Vega matchup, your argument is that you "shouldn't get behind." You're forgetting one crucial thing: as soon as Honda does a headbutt and you block, you are behind. You can't do anything to chip because headbutt stops it all easily, with little timing. SO unless both of you sit still and do absolutely nothing, and you keep a charge so you can backflip a headbutt perfectly on reaction...you will always be behind in that matchup, UNLESS your opponent makes a mistake. Which is exactly what I said in my strategy...that matchup is random unless your opponent just sits and headbutts all day, in which case you lose 100% and there's nothing you can do.

    The Blanka-Honda matchup is even worse, because you can't do ANY specials without getting headbutted afterwards for free. In fact, your best bet in that matchup is just to walk forward and wait for headbutt, and when you see it jump directly backwards with forward kick and pray you beat the headbutt or land behind it, so you can throw and then run the rest of the match. But good luck jumping perfectly and not eating the headbutt or blocking...in which case, you lose for free.

    And of course, in both matches you're forgetting that Honda can just mash medium punch at any time for free chip, and you're behind from that point onward.

    Other matchups for Honda that are positive?

    Let's run down the lineup...

    Honda flat out loses to shotos, so Ryu and Ken are out.
    Honda beats Blanka clean.
    Honda vs Gief....honestly Gief can't do anything in this match if he can't get a knockdown. The only way he'll pull that off vs. a good turtle Honda is to do a lariat when Honda does a random headbutt. If Honda is a good enough turtle, he can block the whole time and do headbutt on reaction of Gief tries to attack, then use medium punch hand slaps to chip if he gets into range, then just keep blocking. If you DON'T get knocked down, this match is a win for free.
    Honda vs. Chun: crappy match. Chun's jump short beats a lot of crap and sometimes crosses up Honda randomly. Her fireballs give him trouble too and her upkick can go through jump attacks and buttdrops. If she gets inside you will have a lot of probs and she will start getting free crossups you can do nothing about. Best case scenario is to just wait it out beginning of match...if she advances, do a headbutt and wait her out. If she throws a fireball, make sure you have charge for buttsplash and do it quickly. If she jumps, do jab headbutt as if it were a shoryuken to knock her out of her shorts...but watch out because if she starts doing flips on you or crosses you up, you are royally fucked. It's a hard match for Honda.
    Honda vs. Guile: Honda can actually win this match convincingly if he does the right thing at the beginning of the round. Just wait it out and wait for the first sonic boom while Guile is still close....if he jumps back, do a fierce headbutt quickly to get closer to him....range is the key in this match. Once the sonic boom comes out, do a splash, then follow up with medium punch hands. Repeat, he's going to be forced to throw booms if you're ahead and you can just keep splashing and slapping over and over. If he jumps, HEADBUTT. BUT if Guile gets away from you, you WILL get zoned with booms/jumpkicks/sweeps so you will be fucked if you're ever NOT close to him.
    Honda vs. Sim: This match is supposed to be a fair match, but the more I play it the more I find that Sim is just too good. His fireballs are slow enough so if you try to jump or splash over, you will eat foot or slides. Again the key is staying close enough so Sim can't zone you out from long distance...but the problem is, Sim has ridiculous throw priority, so if you try to splash over a close fireball and follow up, he might throw you out of it, or just start doing crazy drills all over you. Tough match but a turtle Honda SHOULD prevail if he stays inside.
    Honda vs. Balrog (boxer) is tough, because he can just do rush punches to you and if you try to guess and do headbutt, he can end up using HIS headbutt and royally fucking you. Same thing with your slaps...he can headbutt through them which is pretty stupid. If you miss a headbutt (you do a jab headbutt and it whiffs for example) you will be eating punches and then blocking for ages. If you try random splashes Rog's headbutt can escape or even hit you out of it. Tough, but if you block a lot and can do headbutts on reaction, you can win.
    Honda vs. Vega (claw) is clean win for Honda.
    Honda vs. O.Sagat is interesting match, because Honda's headbutt actually goes OVER the low tiger shot, which a LOT of people don't even know. BUT as I told Flash at EVO this year, if your opponent knows this they will just throw random high tigers and totally fuck up your game...you can't headbutt if they just keep throwing them, leaving you to jump (And eat uppercut or stand FP) or splash (eat uppercut or sweep). It's a tough match for Honda and I say O.Sagat wins clean.
    Honda vs. Bison (dictator): honestly I'm not sure how this match goes because I don't think I've ever even played it, since I don't use either of the characters much. However, if you can keep using properly spaced splashes, it's likely there's not much Bison can do. The problem is making him block that first splash and then continuing the low forward kick->buffer into properly spaced splash...because Bison is usually doing scissors and torpedoes and all kinds of shit in your fat face that you can't do much about. From what I remember the headbutt doesn't beat either of those specials clean except in certain cases...this would be a tough match for Honda I would assume, but I'm not too sure.
    Honda loses to Dee Jay clean, there's just nothing he can do to a good zoning Dee Jay.
    Honda vs. Fei: no idea really but I would have to say a turtling Honda would win this one.
    Honda vs. THawk: Same matchup as Gief except THawk has a few things he can use - jumping jab which has ridiculous priority and WILL knock you out of a buttsplash...and his dive down/dive up. THawk will try to fool you into blocking a dive that misses and then throw or tick into throw...OR be even sneakier and make you think you can attack after the whiffed dive and then do the dive up through whatever you're doing. However, a turtle Honda can win this match if he just blocks all day and does headbutts on reaction.
    Honda vs. Cammy: think about it, what can Cammy do to you besides try to do the hooligan throw, or try to cross up? Just block and headbutt on reaction.

    I think that covers it...
  • ScampScamp Making Miracles! Joined: Posts: 1,003
    My list of useful supers is most definitely not the top tier list of the game. Chun isn't top, Honda certainly isn't top, Ryu is probably just below top, Dictator Bison isn't top. In fact, if you look at the true top tier of the game - arguably Vega (claw), O.Sagat, O.Ken, and N.Dhalsim, only ONE of them uses a super effectively.

    The Blanka-Honda matchup is even worse, because you can't do ANY specials without getting headbutted afterwards for free. In fact, your best bet in that matchup is just to walk forward and wait for headbutt, and when you see it jump directly backwards with forward kick and pray you beat the headbutt or land behind it, so you can throw and then run the rest of the match. But good luck jumping perfectly and not eating the headbutt or blocking...in which case, you lose for free.

    O. Ken is top-tier? Could you explain this? I'm not much of a ST player but I don't think I've heard anyone argue this before.

    Once I saw Tragic play his Blanka against a Honda at a tourney. I think he did a lot of standing forwards to hit Honda out of his headbutt.
    I don't think this will ever change.
  • ThyAllMightyThyAllMighty ImDaBes Joined: Posts: 1,727
    I'm actually trying to learn N.Ken over O.Ken, cause N.Ken has knee bash tricks, short short super and crazy stun combo (which i don't know how to do, please list it). But other than that, could you elaborate what O.Ken has over N.Ken?
    i play fighting games for the drinking
  • VintageVintage Anticipating... Joined: Posts: 311
    Also to Vintage:

    And yes, we can all play CE and HF, thanks!

    I'll believe it when I see it.

    And yes, some supers are scrubby. But either way, at the end of the day, supers just do not belong in old skool.
    Driven beyond obsession
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    could you elaborate what O.Ken has over N.Ken?

    His dps have more invincibility, everybody knows that. But he also has slighly better fireballs, according to the frame data that can be found on T. Akiba's site : http://games.t-akiba.net/sf2/flame.html

    They come out one frame faster (13 for old ken and 14 for new ken) and they have better recovery : 39 for old ken (lp mp and hp fireballs) and 39 (lp), 40 (mp), 41 (hp) for new ken.

    There's also another difference that people don't always take in consideration, it's that super characters don't have the possibility to tech throws, and tech throws are very useful in this game.


    Edit : Thanks to this site http://xmania.hp.infoseek.co.jp/, I was able to find the names of most of the players featured on the Xmania 4 videos that Eidrian released. Here are the names for the singles tournament : xmania4singles2aj.jpg

    If anyone is interested, I'll also post the names for the 3 on 3 tournament.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Eishi wrote:
    His dps have more invincibility, everybody knows that. But he also has slighly better fireballs, according to the frame data that can be found on T. Akiba's site : http://games.t-akiba.net/sf2/flame.html

    Eishi, think you can help a guy out and give some tips on reading the info from that site? All I see is lots of "@s and squares and stuff. The numbers are there, but I can't tell what they correspond with.

    Even some japanese (which I can't read) would be better than that..
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Click on the "view" tab of your browser, then click on "charater encoding". Choose japanese, if you don't have the japanese fonts installed on your PC it should propose you to download them.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    *smacks forehead* Ahh!

    alright, thanks man.

    EDIT: do'h.. it's asking me for XP disc 2? wtf?

    In any case, I got it to work in Firefox, but it's not much better. I'll paypal someone some money if they can translate it for me. :)
  • SuperkingSuperking dat mooney dolemite Joined: Posts: 2,252 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Thanks for the Claw info DSP. :tup:
    DS: she's looking hot in that interview, fuck, keep in mind, i don't have yellow fever, i just know a hot girl when i see one, gonna rape her and call her julia chang
    Superking: lol
    DS: julia chang for life
  • margalismargalis Joined: Posts: 714
    If you think having supers that take forever to build up and that it's just as easy to land those throw supers as the ones I listed, you must be better than Kuni at tick throwing!
    Is charging supers a glitch? Yes, it is. But honestly, so is comboing three air hyper vipers beams with Cable...

    No, it certainly isn't game breaking. It is a valid complain about ST though.

    As for the Honda-Vega matchup, your argument is that you "shouldn't get behind." You're forgetting one crucial thing: as soon as Honda does a headbutt and you block, you are behind.

    Yeah..I know. I'm not saying it's an easy fight or something. I mean, it's probably 8-2 Honda. But it's not like there is nothing at all you can do.

    For Honda to actually get ahead isn't *that* easy if you are willing to sit there and do nothing. Of course, then the match consists of both characters just doing nothing.

    It's easier for Vega because he can flip kick or just flip through a headbutt, whereas Blanka just has to block it or jump over it.

    You are approaching this fight like Honda can sit there doing nothing and Vega has to attack. Vega doesn't have to attack, he can also sit there and do nothing.

    Blanka-Honda is obviously awful. But you don't lose for free the first time you block. I mean, if you walk straight up to Honda he has to do SOMETHING, and if that's a headbutt you can jump back and hit him. Obviously he has to press a button at some point.

    I think this discussion is mostly academic because like I said Vega-Honda is probably 2-8 and Blanka-Honda 1-9. However I wouldn't take my hand off the controller and say there was nothing I could do...
    Honda vs. O.Sagat is interesting match, because Honda's headbutt actually goes OVER the low tiger shot, which a LOT of people don't even know.

    There are people that don't know this...seriously? I remember how strange it was in Alpha or CVS or whatever where Honda's headbutt would go under high tigers instead of over low ones. I find it really hard to believe that people don't know this...maybe people who started playing 3 weeks ago...
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Blanka vs Honda is not a hard matchup. Mp electricity has something like 80% chances of countering the headbutt. You can also jump straight up then press lk on the way down. Often times, people make the mistake of using Blanka's rolling attack in an offensive way when in fact it is more reliable as a defense tool. It comes out instantly (zero frames) so it's a good way to counter tick throws, for example. You can also use it to make nice tricks : after you knock down your opponent with 3 hp or 2 hk, do a rolling attack. Depending on the spacing and the button used, you'll end up in front of them or behind them.

    I just wanted to clarify the use of the rolling attack. This is clearly not blanka's biggest asset. Blanka has very good normals, great combos with great dizzy potential and a very unique jump, which allow him to do things other characters can not do.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Eishi wrote:
    Blanka vs Honda is not a hard matchup. Mp electricity has something like 80% chances of countering the headbutt. You can also jump straight up then press lk on the way down. Often times, people make the mistake of using Blanka's rolling attack in an offensive way when in fact it is more reliable as a defense tool. It comes out instantly (zero frames) so it's a good way to counter tick throws, for example. You can also use it to make nice tricks : after you knock down your opponent with 3 hp or 2 hk, do a rolling attack. Depending on the spacing and the button used, you'll end up in front of them or behind them.

    I just wanted to clarify the use of the rolling attack. This is clearly not blanka's biggest asset. Blanka has very good normals, great combos with great dizzy potential and a very unique jump, which allow him to do things other characters can not do.



    The problem with your strategy is that it isn't practical in a real game. Nobody can do MP electricity on reaction of seeing a headbutt, so good luck getting it to come out when Honda starts doing FP headbutts. And jumping straight up? I'm sure that works when you're at fullscreen distance, but let's face it, when have you ever seen Honda do a FULL SCREEN headbutt? Honda's best range to fight is mid, because he has the option of doing a quick FP headbutt at any time and more than likely making you block since you're too close to jump on reaction.

    Trust me, I'm not trying to shit on Blanka here, if you know me you'd know that I play him a LOT in casuals and have been trying to make him a legitimate tournament character for years. However, in a Honda vs. Blanka match, Blanka literally can't do a think to a super-turtling Honda. If you sit still, he can headbutt and chip. If you walk forward, he can headbutt and you can't jump fast enough since you're too close. You can NEVER do a ball in the matchup, which is pretty lame, unless it's desperation and you need to escape a throw setup (in which case Honda may not have a charge). And you certainly can't do MP electricity on reaction to stop FP headbutts, ESPECIALLY at mid-range, unless you've been practicing a ridiculous amount or have a turbo joystick. Blanka gets owned up in this matchup if Honda just turtles.
  • RedTideRedTide Get choked Joined: Posts: 699 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Can I get some general Guile strats? I can super, but comboing into it seems practically impossible. I'm sure the japanese players can do it, but I don't have the execution for it :lol:
  • margalismargalis Joined: Posts: 714
    I think the point was you can do MP electricity and from there Honda is the one that has to do something. (I'm not going to pretend I knew MP elec stops the headbutt) Or else you both can just sit there. If Honda moves forward, you can stop the electricity and poke at him. If he doesn't move forward...well that's a pretty boring game.

    Honda is a very poorly designed character. There are way too many matches where the best strategy for both chars is to do nothing. Honda can be played too reactively and having a special that is very good anti-ground and anti-air is a bad idea.

    As far as Blanka being a legit tourney character...good luck. I have a lot of Blanka tricks up my sleeve that can win some matches but once the tricks run out Blanka just doesn't have a lot of the tools other chars have.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    DarksydePhil :

    Of course you can't do that on reaction, but it will prevent them from doing headbutts from afar. It obligates Honda to find another way to get in. And jump straight up lk also works if you are near honda. I'm not an expert blanka player but I like to play with him from time to time, and no Honda player I've played gave me lots of trouble.

    If you have the Xmania 4 videos, there's a blanka vs honda match. The blanka player does a lot of jump straight up lk's and the honda player can't headbutt him for free. The match is pretty close, and it's far from being the sort of total washout you would expect from a 9-1 match (btw the blanka player wins in this video). Also, don't forget blanka's crossup lk, it's a great offensive tool and it works well on honda.
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