Super Street Fighter II Turbo, in the house

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  • Gen-AnGen-An 何で彼女出来ない? Joined: Posts: 616
    Electric Thunder obligates Honda to find another way to get in? Since when does Honda WANT to get in? All Honda wants to do vs non-FB chars is camp in defensive crouch and headbutt anything they try to do. If I had Honda and you decided to do electricity, I'd just sit there and watch you; I don't care. It doesn't bother me.
    Cast in the name of God, ye not guilty
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Hrm, must chime in on this blanka honda debate. I say yes honda does have the upper hand but blankas best asset against honda is his jump straight up rh, For some reason the priority when he's jumping straight up as opposed to towards the opponent is 10 fold. Getting about a character length away from honda and randomly jumping straight up with the rh will usually bait a Head butt and hit it clean or if he decided to do that flashkick belly move (sorry not into legit names) it hits that as well. if it were to whiff alot of the time blanka can move after landing and reach with a crouch fierce or crouch rh while hondas recovering from the headbutt and then get in range again. honda has to stand up cuz a late rh on way down is a nasty overhead that u don't see coming cuz looks to far away. Add in not doing anything and landing with a crouching rh can really play havoc. Stannd short is also a monster anti headbutt poke. When in doubt. Stick it out. If honda didn't headbutt there isn't a move gonna hit blanka on reaction from it.Now of course this is ST ya'll talkin bout so yea thats about it for blankas chances against honda. AE of course is a different monster. Something I find odd though. All blankas Electricties hit honda clean out of headbutts 100% Except for SF2 Honda torpedos which clean every Electricity of every version. Personally i'd rather fight honda with Blanka more then Thawk. Fuu that match.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    So what ? Blanka can also sit there... and do jump straight up lks in case Honda wants to get in. And if he doesn't want to, that makes things easier for Blanka. Btw, I rarely see Honda played in a defensive way. It's a better choice for him to try to get in and use his throws, crossups, hundered hands slap, flying move... This makes things much harder for the opponent.
  • NKINKI Mashers Joined: Posts: 1,788
    To everyone asking for "general strats", I can not stress enough that it is infinitely better (and more efficient!) to simply watch match vids of top players. There is now a wealth of footage available online, featuring the world's best players. Go to combovideos.com, or hit up the GFB hub, or my fserv in #gamecombos.

    If you have a specific question, no prob, but it takes way too long to type up "general strats", given that each character has 16 match-ups to be worried about.
    saroorhai wrote:
    How much do you think using the psx version affected the outcome of evo this year? And do you think that it would have been the same with the DC version?

    Also, were these differences a surprise to the players? It has been announced for some time that the psx version was the one to be used, right?
    Gian was without a doubt the best ST player there, by far. He would have won regardless. As for the others, I dunno. I certainly expected all the regular big names to be top 8, but I think maybe rust had a lot to do with it. Most top ST players admit to only playing the game a couple of times per year, and I know if I did that, I wouldn't be playing anywhere near my best. On top of that, there were also several people coming in fresh (peeps who had actually been playing), so they had that advantage going for them too. Also keep in mind that Valle didn't enter. Gian was the only person I saw consistently beat Valle in casuals/3-on-3/side tourneys, so I am pretty sure Valle would have placed quite well if he had entered.

    As for the complaints, the only legitimate, game-changing difference that I've heard so far was from Kuni, about the input differences. Deejay being able to duck under Boxer's st.Fierce is simply not true. If peeps really don't believe me (why would I lie about this?), then I will cap and upload video proof, if that's what it takes.

    Actually, Chun also was changed, but because I practiced on the PSX version before Evo, I knew about it, and I avoided it. (She can't use her medium upkicks anymore because there is a HUGE amount of lag while she's falling, and she gets no follow-ups afterwards). But it's really not a big deal...just use Short upkicks instead.
    Anyway, back to the spirit of this thread: I have a question, how do you deal with O.Sagat with N.Ken?
    Are you using the Juice Kick? (Instant air hurricane kick towards him.) Hit up/towards, then immediately do a hurricane kick. You can use that to get over low shots. It's almost like a teleport that hits.
    NKI, JSJ, Sabre, whoever, can you guys suggest a character to start with for a begining player?
    My suggestion would be Claw. You don't have to do anything complex to win with him.
    mukai wrote:
    well a gurly man like yourself should play with chun li.
    What are you trying to say about people who play Chun? I play Chun, and I'm as rough-and-tumble as they come.

    OK, that's a lie...
    Buktooth wrote:
    fools are lucky i wasnt in the 3on3

    THATS RIGHT I SAID IT
    Buktizzle would show everyone what st.Strong is all about. No one can out-mash CHAMPbell.
    Buktooth wrote:
    how come gian wins every throw battle against me
    ...except Gian...
    dogface wrote:
    And how come NKI is the goddamn sexiness? Besides playing XvSF, I am a psychic. Behold:

    http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97513
    What was that a link for? It's broken now. :sad:
    Renegade wrote:
    4 chuns? (you, buk, nuki, tokido) (even though I saw tokido use Vega too)

    What the heck was with that? I know Chun's pretty good... but isn't she strictly mid tier in this game?
    I dunno why she's so popular. The only reason I play her is because most people don't know how to fight against her, so that makes it hella easier to win.
    And the counterpoint, where was O.Sagat? Chun's most feared counter character?
    O.Sagat definitely has the advantage in that matches, but I fear Fei Long more than O.Sagat. I still get nightmares of playing against Noguchi's Fei...:sad:
    And, my friend Billy was discussing the Vega "soft ban" in Japan that people have talked about. Which made me think that when I went to Japan, I saw vega's being played (a really cheap CE vega at MORE). Is the "soft ban" thing really true? I'm starting to think not.
    No such thing. And that CE Claw was probably More Balrog, the world's most hated Claw player...he is dirty...
    Bison blocked scissors into throw is a friggin' combo I swear. :P
    Actually every character can throw him for free after point blank scissor kicks.
    Spider-Dan wrote:
    Supposedly, O.Sim has slightly longer throw range.
    This has been tested and is false.

    Side note: Honda's super gets my vote for worse super in the game, because it:
    -gets beat by st.Jab on reaction
    -is punishable by every character if blocked
    -is randomly punishable even if it hits

    Though Blanka's super isn't far behind...


    -Nicholai!
    It was a fun ten years.

    http://nki.combovideos.com
    Thanks to BlazeD and Preppy for hosting!
    Avatar by Buttermaker.
  • margalismargalis Joined: Posts: 714
    Ok, here is a question along with some interesting trivia. Blanka's parabolic ball attack doesn't always bounce off the opponent, if it hits on the way up it keeps going. In addition, it can hit more than once! Against Sagat and Hawk (IIRC) it can hit three times. Blanka will just keep spinning forward and hitting.

    My question is this: Is there any real use for this? One thing I've never gotten a chance to try is to hit with a ball on the way up against an airborne opponent, then juggle with the super. (Opponent has to be in corner for this to have any chance of working)

    Edit: The sad part about Blanka's super is that it's really easy to power it up, and then it's basically useless.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    [Edit]
    Currently considering something more effective.
  • Spider-DanSpider-Dan Joined: Posts: 1,003
    Is charging supers a glitch? Yes, it is. But honestly, so is comboing three air hyper vipers beams with Cable...the creators of the game didn't expect the charge system of ST, or the air-super system of MvC2, to work that way, but it just ended up being like that.
    It's not even remotely the same thing.

    The developers knew that AHVB has [x] amount of startup and creates >[x] amount of hitstun. While they certainly don't anticipate all the ways players will use moves in combos, AHVBx3 is no less legitimate than any other combo. It just happens to do a sh*tload of damage. That's the real reason why you see people saying "AHVBx3 is a glitch!!" yet they don't make any mention of Hyper Sentinel Force x3. AHVBx3 kills you, HSFx3 doesn't, so HSFx3 is OK but AHVBx3 is broken.

    In contrast, stored specials/supers are just a programming glitch, straight up. There is no logical reason why you can store those supers but not other supers with the same input command. Why can't Balrog store his super? How about Blanka or DeeJay?

    This is not a commentary on whether or not stored moves break the game (I don't think they do), but to compare them to a perfectly legitimate and logical combo is totally baseless.
    I May Be Wrong, but I Doubt It
  • DecoyDecoy You better block. Joined: Posts: 497
    Maxstah wrote:
    Hrm, must chime in on this blanka honda debate. I say yes honda does have the upper hand but blankas best asset against honda is his jump straight up rh, For some reason the priority when he's jumping straight up as opposed to towards the opponent is 10 fold. Getting about a character length away from honda and randomly jumping straight up with the rh will usually bait a Head butt and hit it clean or if he decided to do that flashkick belly move (sorry not into legit names) it hits that as well. if it were to whiff alot of the time blanka can move after landing and reach with a crouch fierce or crouch rh while hondas recovering from the headbutt and then get in range again. honda has to stand up cuz a late rh on way down is a nasty overhead that u don't see coming cuz looks to far away. Add in not doing anything and landing with a crouching rh can really play havoc. Stannd short is also a monster anti headbutt poke. When in doubt. Stick it out. If honda didn't headbutt there isn't a move gonna hit blanka on reaction from it.Now of course this is ST ya'll talkin bout so yea thats about it for blankas chances against honda. AE of course is a different monster. Something I find odd though. All blankas Electricties hit honda clean out of headbutts 100% Except for SF2 Honda torpedos which clean every Electricity of every version. Personally i'd rather fight honda with Blanka more then Thawk. Fuu that match.

    ^ What he said.

    J. RH up close is Blanka's best friend. People also forget to do the J. bitch slap to the face. I do that EVERY chance I get. ;-)

    Oh, and can't forget roll into bite. Learn the spacing and that will keep a Honda player on edge.

    ~Decoy
    XBL Tag: Real Decoy
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    WraithCo wrote:
    *snip*


    :wow: :wow: :wow:

    :tup: :clap: :tup:

    :pleased:
  • ToXYToXY Scrubs up? Joined: Posts: 598
    Hey nki nice thread, i would like some info on the Balrog(US) vs Bison(US) matchup, when bison keeps repeating the s.mk, s.hk, then dive punch xx s.hk etc.. really owns me, any tips anybody :)?
  • CaliPowerCaliPower Level | Up President Joined: Posts: 1,889 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    one day of ryu practice beats all chars down............
    Mr. Valle
    "Rushing Your Shit Down.....Forever"
    Facebook - calipower@hotmail.com
    Twitter - AlexValleSF4
    Level|Up company site: www.levelup-series.com
  • eviljevilj Joined: Posts: 4,976 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    hyper fighting chun li was tight. can hang fireball fights with ken, air sbk to get over fireballs, invisible neckbreaker crossup/non crossup kick, free jump ins after throw against ryu (you dp, i block). sweep beats any of guiles jumps.
    Green Karin.
  • el_diabloel_diablo Joined: Posts: 283 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    NKI wrote:
    Side note: Honda's super gets my vote for worse super in the game, because it:
    -gets beat by st.Jab on reaction
    -is punishable by every character if blocked
    -is randomly punishable even if it hits

    ok, that's what i thought. I already got FAB'ed after landing the first hit, so i was kinda doubtful about that super's usefulness.

    anyone got a precise way to land ryu's c.lk x2, shinkuu? it actually works, but it seems kinda random...
  • Hol HorseHol Horse a.k.a. Fugo ~ イタリアの強大なユリアン Joined: Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    NKI wrote:

    Though Blanka's super isn't far behind...


    -Nicholai!

    yeah but at least it gets full hits when used (properly) as AA.
    gooby plz
  • ShirtsShirts Former Video Game Player Joined: Posts: 519
    CaliPower wrote:
    one day of ryu practice beats all chars down............

    I agree. (Old man bias.)

    Oh, man. So much New School blood.
  • Duck StrongDuck Strong Yin to all Yang Joined: Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I'm old, I just never played you guys.
    My youtube channel (various MVC3 vids etc.):

    http://www.youtube.com/user/CrouchStrong?feature=mhsn
  • A-DhalsimA-Dhalsim GrandMaster Fro Joined: Posts: 1,274
    So much mis guided info going on here. O'sim Differences are in his drills, they have higher priority. Especially the headbutt drill. The throw range differecne is questionable, but I believe the priority leans towards Old Sim.

    Have to disagree with NKI on the outcome being the same if this were to be on arcade. Gian came within inches to losing to Nuki (Nuki should of won in my opinion). The pixels he won on me could of gone either way. Sim vs Sim is a complete toss up and both of us were playing the match wrong and way to agreessive. Hehe to bad Sirlin didn't come across Gian in the tournament, he would of smoked him like he did during 3v3 =)

    Hopefully Watson gets his tourney scene going and we can all go back to playing arcade versions, then we can really see what you new kids are made of.

    J-Cole
    -Dangerous Crew-

    Mobbin the SF and Tekken scene like
    Gai Sensai: DYNAMIC ENTREE!!!!!
    *sparkle on da Fro* =D

    "Chuck Norris and Mr. T walked into a bar. The bar was instantly destroyed, as that level of awesome cannot be contained in one building"
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    A-Dhalsim wrote:
    So much mis guided info going on here. O'sim Differences are in his drills, they have higher priority. Especially the headbutt drill. The throw range differecne is questionable, but I believe the priority leans towards Old Sim.

    Have to disagree with NKI on the outcome being the same if this were to be on arcade. Gian came within inches to losing to Nuki (Nuki should of won in my opinion). The pixels he won on me could of gone either way. Sim vs Sim is a complete toss up and both of us were playing the match wrong and way to agreessive. Hehe to bad Sirlin didn't come across Gian in the tournament, he would of smoked him like he did during 3v3 =)

    Hopefully Watson gets his tourney scene going and we can all go back to playing arcade versions, then we can really see what you new kids are made of.

    J-Cole



    YEEES, if all the OGs get ST going again, and actually get practice, I'm sure it will be fair the next time we meet in tournament....

    ...yeah right.

    One thing you guys always say is you don't play as much anymore and there's no comp. Well if there's no comp for you, think about how little comp there is for new school! There must be a total of like 8 competitive ST players on the East Coast, and that's stretching it. Now that Phi is no longer running tournaments, there will be ZERO chance to get any practice before the next major. For example, just look at the turnout at the CTF tournament this weekend... a whopping 4 people showed up and it ended up being round robin. Glad I didn't go!

    I wish you guys all the best in getting that tourney scene together, but if it happens then I'm gonna have to fly over there a few days to get some comp in...
  • NKINKI Mashers Joined: Posts: 1,788
    el_diablo wrote:
    anyone got a precise way to land ryu's c.lk x2, shinkuu? it actually works, but it seems kinda random...
    The technique is the same as Ken, but the timing is a lot harder because Ken's super is a lot faster than the Shinkuu. (Ryu's takes longer to come out and start hitting.) You just have to practice and learn the difficult timing.
    J-Cole wrote:
    Hopefully Watson gets his tourney scene going and we can all go back to playing arcade versions, then we can really see what you new kids are made of.
    What is this tourney scene you speak of? I'm getting excited...


    -Nicholai!
    It was a fun ten years.

    http://nki.combovideos.com
    Thanks to BlazeD and Preppy for hosting!
    Avatar by Buttermaker.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I'm guessing most people don't want to use a translation guide to read the frame data. So I'm considering a more effective "solution" of sorts.
    I'll be waiting for a response from Buktooth. Drunken probably has an idea of what I'm doing.
  • stream3stream3 Joined: Posts: 234
    NKI do you have the Insanity DVD series? How is it.

    Just viewed the latest batch of X-mania vids. Ume-chin's ryu is more impressive than Daigo, IMO. Noguchi wrecked shop,and the dhalsim on otochun's team is pretty killer too.

    best list--

    chun: oto chun
    ken: ani ken
    dictator: yuu
    guile: kurahashi/
    rog: tama? tsuji?
    ryu: shooting D, umechin
    dhally: kky, GIAN, a bunch of others
    claw: more vega
    fei: noguchi
    deejay: no idea
    cammy: the only dude that plays cammy
    t-hawk: spikey haired dude in SBO
    zangief: pony
  • CigarBoBCigarBoB Joined: Posts: 895
    I beleav the Sim in the finals was Gian. The same person that won ST this year at EVO.
  • A-DhalsimA-Dhalsim GrandMaster Fro Joined: Posts: 1,274
    DSP: Well first off, I for one have never stoped playing or ever complained about not having comp. I search for my comp and occasionally gather the old skool to play. Thats just me though, cause I am also the only OG player that really travels to outside tourneys. Missed last ecc (unfortunately) but did make it to Ts5 which was off the hook...ALSO which I won in ST (you were there too dsp =P). Although I hear ECC might be coming back into the mix....ill keep it on the downlow tho muahah!

    NKI: It something Watson is in the works of startting up, when things get more in motion he will definately be letting people know. Unfortunately its aimed for next year. So until then A-CHO CUP!!!! That shit will be OFF THE HOOK!!

    J-Cole
    -Dangerous Crew-

    Mobbin the SF and Tekken scene like
    Gai Sensai: DYNAMIC ENTREE!!!!!
    *sparkle on da Fro* =D

    "Chuck Norris and Mr. T walked into a bar. The bar was instantly destroyed, as that level of awesome cannot be contained in one building"
  • AkumaTXAkumaTX Joined: Posts: 3,875
    where can i order a ST cab?
  • TSTS pbbbbbbt... Joined: Posts: 4,302 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Throw range isn't much more important than walking speed, I've figured out...like in the SFA games, Chun li has shorter throw range than shotos, but gets to throw more, because of how her walk/walking speed is (quite possibly the same way in the SF2 games). So, maybe O.Sim walks a tiny bit faster, or the hit detection for his throw is in a slightly different place?
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    The Dhalsim in the X mania 4 finals is named Shin Dhalsim.
    The sipkey hair Hawk player of SBO is named Toutanki.
    It's not otoken, it's Aniken (contraction of Aniki = big brother and Ken).
    And it's not Umechan, it's Umechin.

    These players are very strong too :

    Tsunoppi (guile)
    Mattsun (crazy ken player who likes to use all kinds of tricks)
    Holy Scarlet Bal (very cheap claw player)
  • NKINKI Mashers Joined: Posts: 1,788
    I haven't seen The Insanity Series yet, but I really want to!

    FYI: Gian used to go by "Ken-O". Probably more peeps know him by that name.

    Cole - sounds dope. Hope it gets some foos playing ST regularly.

    TS - I've tested other old characters, and they all have the same walking speed. I'll test Sim next time I get a chance.


    -Nicholai!
    It was a fun ten years.

    http://nki.combovideos.com
    Thanks to BlazeD and Preppy for hosting!
    Avatar by Buttermaker.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    On the insanity DVD page, they describe KEN-O as the best dhalsim player of Japan :wow:
  • AkumaTXAkumaTX Joined: Posts: 3,875
    where can one order a board from
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    can i have strats for boxer vs sagat and claw
  • NKINKI Mashers Joined: Posts: 1,788
    AkumaTX - your best bet would be eBay or newsgroups. Most online PCB dealers charge way too much. Just get if from a collector who's clearing out old stuff, and you can pick up ST for much cheaper.
    void216 wrote:
    can i have strats for boxer vs sagat and claw
    NKI wrote:
    If you are looking for "general strats", I can not stress enough that it is infinitely better (and more efficient!) to simply watch match vids of top players. There is now a wealth of footage available online, featuring the world's best players. Go to combovideos.com, or hit up the GFB hub, or my fserv in #gamecombos. I will not be replying to any posts asking for general strats.
    -Nicholai!
    It was a fun ten years.

    http://nki.combovideos.com
    Thanks to BlazeD and Preppy for hosting!
    Avatar by Buttermaker.
  • stream3stream3 Joined: Posts: 234
    we still need the first set of vids from the MSC (master secret cup) series!

    That stuff is years old but still good.
  • omniomni Joined: Posts: 476 admin
    I'm like 99% positive about this:

    old/new characters walk the same speed

    old/new throw ranges are the same. O.Sim feels like he gets some 'advantage' cause of Toward+Strong not doing whatever the fuck it does with N.Sim (I'm too lazy to look it up and I'm too old to remember what it is).

    Another misconception about new/old that I think are wrong:

    Old Guile recovers quicker from sonic booms. I don't think there are any O.Guile combos only that New cannot do aside from the ones involving the normals being different. Or maybe this isn't the best way to test this? Seems like it would be though.

    Derek
  • ToodlesToodles da Fetus of Gawd! Joined: Posts: 10,778
    omni wrote:
    Old Guile recovers quicker from sonic booms. I don't think there are any O.Guile combos only that New cannot do aside from the ones involving the normals being different. Or maybe this isn't the best way to test this? Seems like it would be though.
    Load up an emulator, preferably one that allows stepping by frame. Have N.Guile and O.Guile square off, throw a sonic boom at each other at the same time, and have them both hold up while throwing the boom. You can see and count the difference in frames by who jumps first.
    Give me a moment to load it up and I'll find out (after I look up how to pick O.Guile)

    EDIT: Did it. Recovery time from both Fierce and Jab booms is exactly the same. I didnt see a need to test Strong booms. It did however look like the speed of the booms is the same for Fierces,, but O.Guile's job boom looks faster than N.Guile's jab boom. Test was done on the japanese version, ssftxj.zip.
  • BuktoothBuktooth vietnamazing Joined: Posts: 1,713 mod
    i've always thought that certain moves having more "priority" across different versions of characters (and versions of st) were just people imagining things. kinda like how everybody thought that the big fierces in cvs2 eo had less priority. throw priority is especially suspect
    -Campbell Tran

    as of 12/02/09:

    me: did pz john ever give the japanese players their money
    bas: hahah of course no
  • eviljevilj Joined: Posts: 4,976 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    i know i've tested walking speed in HF, comparing chun to ken and ryu, and other stuff too. two of them had the same speed, and one was different as far as i remember.
    Green Karin.
  • ThyAllMightyThyAllMighty ImDaBes Joined: Posts: 1,727
    what's the trick that nken players do (specifically that nken player in xmania vids) when after knee bash, ken walks under you and straight jumps up short. is it an ambigious cross up or is it meant to hit backwards?

    also with noguchis fei, is that how all feis play, just the crazy 2 hit kick and make them guess dp reversal or throw?
    i play fighting games for the drinking
  • CapMasterCapMaster OG Pad Player Joined: Posts: 718 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    This is the best thread on SRK in about a year. Thank you NKI.
    Reborn ST hustler.
    2009 Gamestop Regional Champion
  • CigarBoBCigarBoB Joined: Posts: 895
    Pez it is just good to add to your arsinal. The jump strait up short has really good proiority and you can jap Dp if it hits or knee throw again if its blocked.
  • CapMasterCapMaster OG Pad Player Joined: Posts: 718 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Hey DSP I got a question for you...You consider OG Ken top tier, but not new/ST Ryu? Why? Yes OG Ken is much simpler, but ST Ryu just has a lot more options. I'm curious.

    Also, do you have any advice on fighting Blanka with Vega (Claw), new Ryu, or OG Sagat? Those are my 3 characters and believe it or not...I have trouble with that matchup.

    By the way...how much does it cost to get a Supergun? And the games with it..Where would you find those and how much for them?
    Reborn ST hustler.
    2009 Gamestop Regional Champion
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