Super Street Fighter II Turbo, in the house

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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    CapMaster wrote:
    Hey DSP I got a question for you...You consider OG Ken top tier, but not new/ST Ryu? Why? Yes OG Ken is much simpler, but ST Ryu just has a lot more options. I'm curious.

    Also, do you have any advice on fighting Blanka with Vega (Claw), new Ryu, or OG Sagat? Those are my 3 characters and believe it or not...I have trouble with that matchup.

    By the way...how much does it cost to get a Supergun? And the games with it..Where would you find those and how much for them?

    Vega vs Blanka...this match honestly isn't TOO bad for blanka but there are things you can do to avoid having trouble fighting him. He can't ever do a ball because you can walk forward and standing FP or MP him after you block it. If you knock him down and then do a roll, he has NO wakeup move that will go through it, so it's free block damage. Try not to jump if he is blocking down-back because if he does an upball on reaction it has a good chance to hit you...however if he jumps either 1. do a backflip if you have charge or 2. jump up MP/FK to trade or beat his jumping attacks. Best bet in this match is to walk forward and poke for a while, and wait for his mistake. If he just blocks, try to throw, or jab roll. If you happen to knock him down, you can pretty much do the crossup wall dives over and over and he has no answer if you time it right...the upball will NOT beat the wall dive if you hit him with the tip of your claw.

    Vega vs New Ryu: it's a patience game. Wait for him to throw the fireball and jump over it, your jump is VERY fast. If you end up landing short, jump forward again because he will probably try to sweep you, then try to throw or poke. Footsies are crucial in this matchup because your crouching MP and sweep are very fast compared to EVERYTHING Ryu has besides his crouching RH. If you block a crouching RH, and he doesn't buffer into fireball, do crouching MP immediately. Crossup wall dives are very useful in this matchup. The name if the game here is BAIT: you want to bait Ryu into doing a shoryuken so you can sweep him after and set him up for some footsies or throw setups. Play carefully, don't jump forward needlessly, and wait for Ryu to make his attacks. Let Ryu be the aggressor and by reacting you will win the match.

    Vega vs. O.Sagat: Tricky because if O.Sagat blasts you with a tiger uppercut you lose HUGE damage. Stay within jump range at all times so if he throws a fireball, you can jump over and do jump RH, land and combo into crouching MP. Footsies are the name of the game here since everything you do will beat his ground game besides his tiger uppercut, so try not to be too predictable or he will try to time one to nail you. Do a few random slides within block range to surprise him mixed up with crouching MP. Again, your jump is your best asset because it's fast enough to get over any fireball if you're in range. If you knock him down, be WARY of going for hte crossup claws because his tiger uppercut can usually trade with you, and it does WAY more damage than your claw in the trade. The best policy here is to play carefully, out-footsie him if you can, sweep when you can, and jump over all of his fireballs by staying in range.


    IMO OG Ken is better because 1. his normals are a tiny bit faster, ESPECIALLY his crouching RH.
    2. His jab uppercut is ridiculously fast, has high priority, and does high damage. It's hard to play footsies with O.Ken because if you try poking (for example with Claw) and he just randomly does jab DPs, he can usually nail you a few times, which sets up his jump-in and crossup games, which you want no part of. I also dare you to try to sweep him after he whiffs one of these, because it recovers so fast you have a high chance of getting DPed again if you stick anything out.
    3. HIGH DAMAGE. I can't emphasize that fighting O.Ken and getting nailed with 1-2 combos will fuck you up way more than getting hit by Ryu with anything.

    The bottom line is O.Ken can not only use fireball traps, but he is excellent at footsies and has an excellent, fast, LOW-risk jab uppercut. Sure, Ryu has a super, but Ken has better normals and a DP that he can use throughout the whole round.
  • Ryu1999Ryu1999 Keyboard Warrior Joined: Posts: 838
    I also dare you to try to sweep him after he whiffs one of these, because it recovers so fast you have a high chance of getting DPed again if you stick anything out.

    I know omni commented on this earlier in a WAYYYY old thread but I think he mentioned that if OG Ken whiffs a dp up close, you get free throw, even though it doesn't look like it. He will not have time to dp again.
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  • Duy NguyenDuy Nguyen Thug life!!! Joined: Posts: 830
    I'm kinda new to ST, and I'm picking up N.Ryu to start it out. I'm wondering some strats against the top 5, especially Balrog (boxer) and Dhalsim.

    Oh, another question, how do I pick OG characters on the PS1 ST?

    Thanks.
  • LantisLantis Can you fly, Bobby? Joined: Posts: 6,275 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Duy Nguyen wrote:
    I'm Oh, another question, how do I pick OG characters on the PS1 ST?

    Thanks.

    In Vs. mode, just press any button, then Select.

    In Arcade mode, you have to select a character, then either press Left or Right repeatedly, or Up and Down repeatedly + any punch button (some codes work for some characters, and some work for others).
    There's no holding me back
    I'm not driven by fear
    I'm just driven by anger
    And you're under attack
  • CapMasterCapMaster OG Pad Player Joined: Posts: 718 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    What I ment DSP was advice for me as new Ryu, Vega, and OG Sagat vs blanka ( all 3 individual matchups, me as Ryu vega and sagat) but thanks for the write up. There's a lot of good info in there that I can add to my Vega knowledge base. Thank you.
    Reborn ST hustler.
    2009 Gamestop Regional Champion
  • Hol HorseHol Horse a.k.a. Fugo ~ イタリアの強大なユリアン Joined: Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I'm looking for some advice in the Bison (dictator) vs turtling Guile. I don't really know what to do. I stay grounded, I eat SB chip all the day. I try the slow ass jump, and I get flashickicked. Even devil reverse trickery is hard to use since if I don't start from far enough, I get into Flashkick range on the way up BEFORE I can steer and bait.

    Also, Sim vs Deejay. I have hard time keeping him out, I have some trouble anti airing him and if he gets in and starts with crossup madness, I'm done.
    And his fireball is far more annoying than guile's.
    If he turtles, jab yoga fire barrage is not that effective since his own projectile is fats and has great recovery.

    Also, Sim vs Claw. NKI you mentioned in the other thread to do short slide to counter the wall dive, but if they attack late enough the slide seems to get stuffed too. If I get to land the noogie it's good, but otherwise the matchups seems quite hard to me.
    I'd like some tips from sim players.

    Thanks.


    Thanks.
    gooby plz
  • Ryu1999Ryu1999 Keyboard Warrior Joined: Posts: 838
    Hol Horse wrote:

    Also, Sim vs Claw. NKI you mentioned in the other thread to do short slide to counter the wall dive, but if they attack late enough the slide seems to get stuffed too. If I get to land the noogie it's good, but otherwise the matchups seems quite hard to me.
    I'd like some tips from sim players.

    Thanks.

    I would also like to know. I play the unholy union of O. Ryu/N. Sim and neither of these characters can deal with Claw, and I know its because Ryu/Vega is practically an auto loss....but I think I'm missing something with dhalshim. I don't want to have to resort to learning Honda to counter this one character :(
    "orangemegaslide" (10:27:25 PM): dammit i need toilet paper, we're all out
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    "orangemegaslide" (10:27:40 PM): so i'll shit then shower
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  • NKINKI Mashers Joined: Posts: 1,788
    Duy Nguyen wrote:
    I'm kinda new to ST, and I'm picking up N.Ryu to start it out. I'm wondering some strats against the top 5, especially Balrog (boxer) and Dhalsim.
    Go check out the X-MANIA vids at combovideos.com.
    Hol Horse wrote:
    I'm looking for some advice in the Bison (dictator) vs turtling Guile.
    Dic's juice zone is the maximum range of his st.Forward/st.RH, so that Guile is afraid to throw Sonic Booms. You want to jump straight up over Sonic Booms, then walk forward while he is waiting for that Sonic Boom to get off screen. He'll try to cr.Forward you, so wait for that to whiff, then walk in and start using those shin guards.
    Also, Sim vs Deejay. I have hard time keeping him out, I have some trouble anti airing him and if he gets in and starts with crossup madness, I'm done.
    I can't remember if he used it against Deejay or not, but Gian uses max range close cr.Jab as anti-air against a lot of characters.
    Also, Sim vs Claw. NKI you mentioned in the other thread to do short slide to counter the wall dive, but if they attack late enough the slide seems to get stuffed too.
    If he's doing the claw attack that late, then you can just use close st.Jab or close st.Strong to hit him out of it, then meaty drill, then noogies. I saw Gian trying to use jump back Jab against wall dives, but it only worked about half the time, so I dunno about that one.

    Your best bet is probably Short Yoga Blast. It is unpunishable if Claw tries to fake you out. The only problem is that he can still get you (on the side) if he steers it right, but he can't come straight down on you like he normally would.

    As for O.Ken, I think that N.Ken is definitely a better character. I'm not sure about any differences in their normals, but I'll test it out when I get home. Here's what I do know...

    O.Ken advantages over N.Ken:
    -DP has hella invincibility (best in the game)
    -fireballs don't have much recovery time, so he can own up characters like Honda

    O.Ken disadvantages compared to N.Ken:
    -can't tech throws
    -has no super
    -DP is slow (easily punishable if it whiffs)
    -straight-forward character; has no shenanigans, no surprises

    N.Ken advantages over O.Ken:
    -can tech throws
    -ShortShortSuper (with hit-confirm) for +60% is too good
    -DP recovers quickly (hard to punish if it whiffs)
    -is a slippery little trickster with HELLA shenanigans (crazy random cross-ups with command kicks, knee bash throw, etc)
    -comboable overhead
    -far st.RH

    N.Ken disadvantages compared to O.Ken:
    -DP is not as invincible (but still good enough to go through fireballs, etc)
    -fireballs have a lot of lag

    I think on the begginer/intermediate player's level, O.Ken is better, simply because he's easier to use, but at 100% potential (see Japanese N.Ken player "M-tsun"), I think N.Ken is significantly better than O.Ken.


    -Nicholai!
    It was a fun ten years.

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  • CigarBoBCigarBoB Joined: Posts: 895
    NKI!! YES!! N.Ken Owns O.Ken for free. Ive been trying to fight this "O.Ken is better then N.Ken" BS for over a year.

    IMO N.Ken can FB trap as well as O.Ken. Sure you cant do an early DP to hit ppl at the peak of their jump. But N.Ken's DP is sitll invincable on startup and that is good enough for me.

    But i would take short short xxx super over an invincable DP any day. Add JadxxHurricaneKick into shenanigans and then your 8 options after the kneebash.. WOOT N.Ken for LIFE!!


    BTW DSP your are a cool guy but 25% of your SF tactics are only theory. And will not hold up in practice.

    Awesome Thread NKI!!
  • Dark GaidenDark Gaiden Joined: Posts: 284
    CigarBoB wrote:
    NKI!! YES!! N.Ken Owns O.Ken for free. Ive been trying to fight this "O.Ken is better then N.Ken" BS for over a year.

    IMO N.Ken can FB trap as well as O.Ken. Sure you cant do an early DP to hit ppl at the peak of their jump. But N.Ken's DP is sitll invincable on startup and that is good enough for me.

    But i would take short short xxx super over an invincable DP any day. Add JadxxHurricaneKick into shenanigans and then your 8 options after the kneebash.. WOOT N.Ken for LIFE!!


    BTW DSP your are a cool guy but 25% of your SF tactics are only theory. And will not hold up in practice.

    Awesome Thread NKI!!

    LOL C'mon Bob you knew I would chime in on this. I can see how most would say N.Ken is better, but at the end of the day it all comes down to playstyle. All the new shenanigans won't mean anything if you never have the opportunity to execute/land them. *cough* zoned and footsied to death :karate:
    CaliPower wrote:
    one day of ryu practice beats all chars down............

    I concur Valle. I wish I could have played you again during this past evo, but no free stations. I'll have too look into meeting up with you and Fro'Legends to get some ST games.
  • A-DhalsimA-Dhalsim GrandMaster Fro Joined: Posts: 1,274
    NKI giving Sim advice, lol.

    Hol Horse: It all depends on the situation and position dhalsim is compared to when vega goes off the wall. Sim has all kinds of ways to counter vega clean, it's just all about recognizing your position and executing the right move. If you have Vega traped in corner and he happens to go off wall, best thing is upward flame. I use to do back strong at last second if i was right under him, or karate chop st. jab, but do to this past evo and Tokido having the luck of the gods to BARELY get over my strong...iv changed my tactic.
    If you are about mid screen and he goes off the wall, jump back rh or jump straight up and close strong work excellent. The slide technique is mainly saved for when dirty vega's try to cross you up with the claw but its always risky...cause sometimes you will get hit. All in all, if you truely wanna be safe and not risk anything...just teleport and reset the situation...vega cant do anything and you are free to reposition yourself and get back to locking that claw http://dontevenreply.com down =P

    J-Cole

    ps. O.ken > N. ken in a ken vs ken situation =P
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  • CigarBoBCigarBoB Joined: Posts: 895
    LOL C'mon Bob you knew I would chime in on this. I can see how most would say N.Ken is better, but at the end of the day it all comes down to playstyle. All the new shenanigans won't mean anything if you never have the opportunity to execute/land them. *cough* zoned and footsied to death :karate:


    I would have to agree that you must make the oprotunity to get the tricks to work. But N.Ken can zone and play footsies as well as O.Ken. Sure it takes a while to get use to not having the krazie kicks from coming out but it can be done. Sooo if N.Ken has all the tools of O.Ken (Minus the DP invcability) how is O.Ken better?
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    CigarBoB wrote:
    NKI!! YES!! N.Ken Owns O.Ken for free. Ive been trying to fight this "O.Ken is better then N.Ken" BS for over a year.

    IMO N.Ken can FB trap as well as O.Ken. Sure you cant do an early DP to hit ppl at the peak of their jump. But N.Ken's DP is sitll invincable on startup and that is good enough for me.

    But i would take short short xxx super over an invincable DP any day. Add JadxxHurricaneKick into shenanigans and then your 8 options after the kneebash.. WOOT N.Ken for LIFE!!


    BTW DSP your are a cool guy but 25% of your SF tactics are only theory. And will not hold up in practice.

    Awesome Thread NKI!!


    Um, my theories are correct. Of course everything we post here is only theory fighter because we're not really playing, but in IDEAL matches, everything I've posted is 100% correct to my knowledge. Of course nobody is going to play perfectly, but the truth is if somebody DOES play perfectly, Honda beats Blanka/Vega 100% of the time, and that's truth. If you have problems with theory fighter, maybe you shouldn't post in a thread that is discussing ST strats and theory?
  • Ryu1999Ryu1999 Keyboard Warrior Joined: Posts: 838
    Um, my theories are correct. Of course everything we post here is only theory fighter because we're not really playing, but in IDEAL matches, everything I've posted is 100% correct to my knowledge. Of course nobody is going to play perfectly, but the truth is if somebody DOES play perfectly, Honda beats Blanka/Vega 100% of the time, and that's truth. If you have problems with theory fighter, maybe you shouldn't post in a thread that is discussing ST strats and theory?

    Check my response to some of your O. Ken theories.
    "orangemegaslide" (10:27:25 PM): dammit i need toilet paper, we're all out
    Me (10:27:36 PM): backed up to all get out?
    "orangemegaslide" (10:27:40 PM): so i'll shit then shower
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I don't remember who said here that og ken has a better sweep than the new one, but it's false. They have the exact same sweep.

    Another popular belief is that og gief has a greater spd range than
    the new one, but I tested it and it's false, the range is the same for the two of them.


    There are so much legends surrounding og chars... hopefully we will eventually get rid of all of them.


    NKI : you talked about reversal throws. Do you mean that it is possible to cancel the recovery animation by a normal throw ? In my experience if someone attempts a throw when getting up and I do a well timed meaty move, the get hit by it all the time.
  • CigarBoBCigarBoB Joined: Posts: 895
    Um, my theories are correct.

    I would have to say that some of your "theory" is accurate to a point. But take your evaluation of O.Ken. His normals are the same as n.ken. Exactly the same. Now that is not theory it is a fact. So with that your evaluation of o.ken play is flawed.
    Of course everything we post here is only theory fighter because we're not really playing, but in IDEAL matches, everything I've posted is 100% correct to my knowledge

    It is good that you put "to my knowledge" because your knowledge is not 100%.
    Of course nobody is going to play perfectly, but the truth is if somebody DOES play perfectly, Honda beats Blanka/Vega 100% of the time, and that's truth.

    NO character in ST owns another 100%. Because for every anti character strat there is there is another anti-anti-strat. And that is the beauty of ST. Nothing is 100% Using perfect strats will get you ahead and characters have distinct strategies against other characters. But they are never 100% NEVER. Even in a perfect game.
    If you have problems with theory fighter, maybe you shouldn't post in a thread that is discussing ST strats and theory?

    umm OK. Thank god I actually like you. ASS :)

    On sf nothing is 100% ever. Gief can beat Sim, Blanka can beat Honda.

    and N.Ken is better then O.Ken.
  • ThyAllMightyThyAllMighty ImDaBes Joined: Posts: 1,727
    hahaha GOD, this thread is going to revive ST yet

    anyways i have some n.ken questions:
    -how do you do his stun combo? (fierce, funky kick[2 hits], low foward fireball?)
    -after knee bash what characters can you not go under (fatties?)
    -how do you do short short super, i've tried to do it for like an hour and i can't get it (i know you have to kara the short) any tips?
    EDIT: i've tried mashing out shorts to super and i've tried to do the shorts clean also (short, short, pump super, shortxxxjab)
    i play fighting games for the drinking
  • LantisLantis Can you fly, Bobby? Joined: Posts: 6,275 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    So, which characters are better in OG form (aside from the obvious exception of Sagat)?

    And can someone give me a rough super tier? I know Balrog should be on tops...and lower should be Blanka and Honda. But what about others?
    There's no holding me back
    I'm not driven by fear
    I'm just driven by anger
    And you're under attack
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    how do you do his stun combo? (fierce, funky kick[2 hits], low foward fireball?)

    That works? No idea.. sorry. Maybe someone else can answer.
    -how do you do short short super, i've tried to do it for like an hour and i can't get it (i know you have to kara the short) any tips?
    EDIT: i've tried mashing out shorts to super and i've tried to do the shorts clean also (short, short, pump super, shortxxxjab)

    Seriously, you answered your own question.

    Do 2 duck shorts, quickly pump super (QCFx2) then hit LK~Punch. That's it. You do [d.LK, d.LK, s.LK] except you buffer super before the last LK and kara it into super.

    If anything, It sounds like you got it right, but youy just have to do the super motion faster.
  • margalismargalis Joined: Posts: 714
    This reminds of Julien Beasley a long time ago, who had all sorts of information that ended up being retarded. I vividly remember him claiming for years that Zangief couldn't do anything against Vega's diving claw, then he went to Japan and was like "I saw this cool trick with Zangief vs. Vega's claw dive - walk forward and low fierce!"

    Yes, I'm 100% serious. The magical tactic that beat the 100% unbeatable move was low fierce.

    In a match of Vega vs. Honda, how could Honda possibly win 100% in theory land? Honda can't do safe damage to Vega. Round starts, Vega holds down/back. Nothing Honda can do from there is safe damage. He headbutts, I flip kick. What's he going to do, walk forward and hundred hand slap...yeah, thats an unbeatable strategy!

    Half the things people say about ST are wrong. People's info on old vs. new characters are all over the place. And I'm still BOGGLED by the notion that people don't know that Honda's torpedo goes over Sagat's low tiger. Christ, I knew that in 1993 or whatever. What next? Dhalsim can punch under a sonic boom? A fireball is D,DT,T+punch?

    Probably the worst thing you can do when learning ST is listen to other people, because most of them are full of misinformation.

    IMO, the only reason to play O. Ken is if you keep screwing up and getting funcky kicks when you don't want them. That's O. Ken's big advantage. Of course, the Japanese a light-years ahead as far as N. Ken is concerned. N. Ken has a tick game and can combo into a super.

    This isn't an attack on Phil at all. But in general people's supposed knowledge of ST is spotty at best.
  • THChardcoreTHChardcore REALEST PERM! Joined: Posts: 631
    Best thread ever

    Wow!

    Thanks to everyone who posted. I love it.

    My message was too short for the new boards.


    lame.
    Chuggin NOS and burning out.
  • CigarBoBCigarBoB Joined: Posts: 895
    hahaha GOD, this thread is going to revive ST yet

    anyways i have some n.ken questions:
    -how do you do his stun combo? (fierce, funky kick[2 hits], low foward fireball?)

    The combo you are looking for is crossup forward cr.forward FB with kick (hold) Cr.Roundhouse.

    This really isnt all that importnant. About the only time I even use them is after a walkunder. I do cr.short QCF kick (hold) after second hit sweep. But I would rather do Cr.shortx2 DP insted just cuz if its blocked you are some what safe after the DP. If they block that combo I just listed they can do a reversal and hit you after the first hit of the krazie kick.)
    -after knee bash what characters can you not go under (fatties?))

    Here is a short breakdown of it.
    Ken - Yes
    Ryu - Yes
    Guile - Yes
    Gief - No and no in corner
    Chun - Yes
    Sim - Yes
    Honda - Yes
    Blanka - Yes
    Thawk - Yes
    Fei - No and No in corner (I still think this is strange)
    Cammy - Yes
    DJ - Yes
    Sagat - No But you can in the corner
    Vega - Yes
    Bison - No but you can in the corner. I am able to do it if you are on Bisons stage and he hits a statue as he is falling. Kinda strange. So this may be the same for some of the other ppl that you cant walk under.
    -how do you do short short super, i've tried to do it for like an hour and i can't get it (i know you have to kara the short) any tips?
    EDIT: i've tried mashing out shorts to super and i've tried to do the shorts clean also (short, short, pump super, shortxxxjab)

    Here is exactly how to do it. do the two shorts slow. After the second one hits just do the super motion and press jab+short at the same time. One more thing I want to point out is that this is a link not a cancel. You do not need to buffer it in at any point. This also works after cr.strong and a meaty Cr.Forward.

    edit- do not listen to drunken master. My way is 100% guaranteed.
  • Duck StrongDuck Strong Yin to all Yang Joined: Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Ryu1999 wrote:
    I know omni commented on this earlier in a WAYYYY old thread but I think he mentioned that if OG Ken whiffs a dp up close, you get free throw, even though it doesn't look like it. He will not have time to dp again.

    How is that different from any shoto?
    My youtube channel (various MVC3 vids etc.):

    http://www.youtube.com/user/CrouchStrong?feature=mhsn
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    CigarBoB wrote:
    edit- do not listen to drunken master. My way is 100% guaranteed.

    So is mine.. I guess we have a different definition of "buffer" lol
  • Ryu1999Ryu1999 Keyboard Warrior Joined: Posts: 838
    How is that different from any shoto?

    I didn't say it was any different, just responding to DSP's claim that O. Ken is safe after whiffing jab dps
    "orangemegaslide" (10:27:25 PM): dammit i need toilet paper, we're all out
    Me (10:27:36 PM): backed up to all get out?
    "orangemegaslide" (10:27:40 PM): so i'll shit then shower
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    "orangemegaslide" (10:27:48 PM): brb in a bit
  • Duck StrongDuck Strong Yin to all Yang Joined: Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Fair enough, but I can't understand DSP's claim. If that were genuinely the case, the move would be beyond broken.

    And OG Ken does zone a hell of alot better than new Ken.
    My youtube channel (various MVC3 vids etc.):

    http://www.youtube.com/user/CrouchStrong?feature=mhsn
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    But didn't NKI say that N.Ken has better recovery after whiffed DPs???

    But it's all smack to me. I always thought OG.Ken had less recovery (hence the LP DP abuse seen in old US vids) but I don't play OG.Ken so whatever.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    margalis wrote:
    This reminds of Julien Beasley a long time ago, who had all sorts of information that ended up being retarded. I vividly remember him claiming for years that Zangief couldn't do anything against Vega's diving claw, then he went to Japan and was like "I saw this cool trick with Zangief vs. Vega's claw dive - walk forward and low fierce!"

    Yes, I'm 100% serious. The magical tactic that beat the 100% unbeatable move was low fierce.

    In a match of Vega vs. Honda, how could Honda possibly win 100% in theory land? Honda can't do safe damage to Vega. Round starts, Vega holds down/back. Nothing Honda can do from there is safe damage. He headbutts, I flip kick. What's he going to do, walk forward and hundred hand slap...yeah, thats an unbeatable strategy!

    Half the things people say about ST are wrong. People's info on old vs. new characters are all over the place. And I'm still BOGGLED by the notion that people don't know that Honda's torpedo goes over Sagat's low tiger. Christ, I knew that in 1993 or whatever. What next? Dhalsim can punch under a sonic boom? A fireball is D,DT,T+punch?

    Probably the worst thing you can do when learning ST is listen to other people, because most of them are full of misinformation.

    IMO, the only reason to play O. Ken is if you keep screwing up and getting funcky kicks when you don't want them. That's O. Ken's big advantage. Of course, the Japanese a light-years ahead as far as N. Ken is concerned. N. Ken has a tick game and can combo into a super.

    This isn't an attack on Phil at all. But in general people's supposed knowledge of ST is spotty at best.


    It must have made your day to try to piss on me, but unfortunately since you've given nothing constructive to the thread, it just makes you look like more of an ass :tup:

    Maybe if you said something other than WOW I CANT BELIEVE PEOPLE DIDNT KNOW HEADBUTT GOES OVER LOW TIGER you would prove that anything you said has bearing. I was writing basic strats for people who usually don't play ST and want to learn, and you crap all over it. Go flame someone else, fool.
  • JeRonJeRon The Dictatorship Joined: Posts: 968
    margalis wrote:
    In a match of Vega vs. Honda, how could Honda possibly win 100% in theory land? Honda can't do safe damage to Vega. Round starts, Vega holds down/back. Nothing Honda can do from there is safe damage. He headbutts, I flip kick. What's he going to do, walk forward and hundred hand slap...yeah, thats an unbeatable strategy!
    QUOTE]

    I dunno about all that other stuff you said but this caught my attention.Your mocking theory fighter and playing it at the same time. And if your still going to play it then I got one for you....
    Your Vega, Im Honda, I know your waiting for flip kick so I just use hundered hands to get in, but splash, and fuck up your timing by doing headbutt up close, whether you block or get hit, well in the way your describing your situation you get hit, because your looking for that. Then what are you going to do against Honda, when all Im going to do is sit there.
    I actually play Vega and have had my fair share of that match and its not good for Vega. Even if Vega gets a lead its still hard to maintain since Honda outprioritizes him and all he has to do is kock Vega down once and then thats game. No comback factor on Honda at all! Winnable......its hard, but all and all Bad Match!
    I will win with skill! Quote dedicated to ChunLi Zhang, Strongest woman in the world!
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Vintage wrote:
    I'll believe it when I see it.

    And yes, some supers are scrubby. But either way, at the end of the day, supers just do not belong in old skool.

    OMG....Someone get this man a Waaah-Burger and some French Cries! Make sure a Waaambulance delivers it too! :sad: :clap:
  • ThyAllMightyThyAllMighty ImDaBes Joined: Posts: 1,727
    thank you so much cigarbob, you are a wealth of information =)
    i play fighting games for the drinking
  • Josh-TheFunkDOCJosh-TheFunkDOC Double Dutch! Joined: Posts: 2,404 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Awesome, awesome thread here. Thank you NKI, Cigarbob, and all the rest...

    Now, I play Gief. Not very well at this point, but I play him. Thing is, I tend to get discouraged because so many of his matchups seem stupidly one-sided. Here are some of my problems:

    Sim: I don't think I need to explain this one any. I am at a loss as to how to ever get in on the bastard.

    Guile: Anyone who saw Choi counter Kuni at last year's Evo knows what I'm talking about here. This is my hardest matchup right now, I just have no idea what the hell to do, period...

    Deejay: Playing mini-Guile owns me hard. Especially with his dumbass anti-air slide.

    Fei: Great pokes + foolproof one-button anti-air = HELP ME.

    Chun: Pokes, anti-air, walking speed, fireball. =(

    Honda: This match was discussed earlier...so basically I just have to look to lariat a random headbutt?

    Sagat: I will admit to not owning the DVD of last year's Evo, so I'm sure Kuni's matches contain much wisdom here.

    If anyone could give any advice in these matches, it would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Josh.
    http://www.ustream.tv/channel/live-speedrunning - My live stream, mainly speedruns w/ some other stuff now and then
  • CigarBoBCigarBoB Joined: Posts: 895
    Well I have the ST 3v3 Vids on a torrent now. Every one thank NKI for coding them for me.

    Thank you NKI!!!!

    3v3 ST torrent
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Josh-TheFunkDOC :

    Whatch some Poni videos. This guy is one the best (if not the best) Zangief player of the world, and you'll learn lots of stuff by watching and analyzing his matches. IMO Zangief has no choice, he really has to outthink his opponent to win.


    PS : Thanks for the 3 on 3 videos :tup:
  • Hol HorseHol Horse a.k.a. Fugo ~ イタリアの強大なユリアン Joined: Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    great! please seed
    gooby plz
  • VintageVintage Anticipating... Joined: Posts: 311
    CigarBoB wrote:
    Sooo if N.Ken has all the tools of O.Ken (Minus the DP invcability) how is O.Ken better?

    You just answered the question. Invinicible DP, nuff said.
    O.Ryu> O. Ken > N. Ken


    Simple
    Driven beyond obsession
  • The MullahThe Mullah lk kara throw repeat Joined: Posts: 2,666
    great 3 on 3 cigarbob, i'll be seeding!
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    The ONLY things O Ken has over N Ken is a faster fireball and a his DP invincibility.....and thats not even huge factor when you consider most players only use the JAB DP for both New and Old Ken.

    New Ken has so many sick setups you'd be a fool NOT to use him to his full potential. His standing roundhouse is a powerful tool and his special kicks have crazy range and hit box animations.

    O Ken is great if you love sitting back and throwing fireballs all day everyday but if you love an up close and personal knife fight then New Ken is the poison of choice. Just my opinion :tup:
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Awesome, awesome thread here. Thank you NKI, Cigarbob, and all the rest...

    Now, I play Gief. Not very well at this point, but I play him. Thing is, I tend to get discouraged because so many of his matchups seem stupidly one-sided. Here are some of my problems:



    Fei: Great pokes + foolproof one-button anti-air = HELP ME.



    If anyone could give any advice in these matches, it would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Josh.

    I am going to tell your right now, Fei gives Gief HELL. Especially NEW Fei. Your only hope is to knock him down and play wake up mind games and go for crossups whenever possible. Lariats are almost useless at midrange because fei's chicken wing kick(who the fuc made up that name!?)can counter it clean most of the time and sometimes combo into rekka punches off of it.

    So you're going to have to play this one extra smart and choose your targets perfectly. Fei can't rush at you with rekka punches like he does against other fighters because your lariat can counter it clean. Once fei is on the floor he's in your world for just a few seconds but you have to fuck with their heads by mixing up your tick throws, waiting for fei to counter with wiffed flame kicks and punish him when he misses. But thats the thing, if you face a fei with good reversal skills it's going to make it harder for you to land a tick spd.

    If you must jump at fei do so by using Giefs knee short or his body splash because this makes his jumps smaller and gives fei much less time to counter with a flame kick.
  • Nick T.Nick T. Joined: Posts: 3,976
    When are some good times to use N.Ken's far st. RH?

    Like, can it be used to set things up or is it just a good attack that could be used to mixup timing?

    Also one last N.Ken question

    After the knee bash throw what are some of the mixups that he can do that act as 50/50's?
    "It's not your characters' weakness, but weakness in yourself.
    Practice it hard and you can beat anybody." -Kuni
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