Super Street Fighter II Turbo, in the house

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  • CigarBoBCigarBoB Joined: Posts: 895
    xmania 4 2of3 And now Xmania 4 part 2of3

    Dont forget to seed!!!
  • NKINKI Mashers Joined: Posts: 1,788
    Eishi: I think this file is all the evidence you need for reversal throws in ST. Also, as a counterpart to each successful reversal, I included an example of the "magic unthrowable moves" where the opponent times a perfect throw reversal, but instead gets a normal. You can clearly hear the normal move come out. I still have no idea why this happens, but now I know that it doesn't depend on the move the attacker does (happens with meaty specials as well), and it probably happens with all meaties. It seems to be totally random.

    ssf2xj.rc0 = Ryu reversal throwing Dic out of meaty slide
    ssf2xj.rc1 = magic unthrowable slide
    ssf2xj.rc2 = Sim reversal throwing Chun's meaty st.Fierce (palm)
    ssf2xj.rc3 = magic unthrowable palm
    ssf2xj.rc4 = Cammy reversal throwing Boxer's Final TAP
    ssf2xj.rc5 = magic unthrowable Final TAP
    Buktooth wrote:
    me and nkizzle need to battle first to 26, european style, for best chun in the US

    it'll be the battle of turtling/mashing vs technicality

    seth is jewish so he's out of the picture
    Hahaha...I'm down. As everyone knows, first to 26 mirror match is the best way to settle any dispute.


    -Nicholai!
    It was a fun ten years.

    http://nki.combovideos.com
    Thanks to BlazeD and Preppy for hosting!
    Avatar by Buttermaker.
  • ShinjiGohanShinjiGohan Joined: Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    CB, were the matches from CD1 and 2 for X-Mania on there?
  • margalismargalis Joined: Posts: 714
    Interesting...

    I watched all the Blanka vids from the first set of XMania. Yikes. Blanka loses 90% of them.
  • CigarBoBCigarBoB Joined: Posts: 895
    CB, were the matches from CD1 and 2 for X-Mania on there?


    Yes
  • CigarBoBCigarBoB Joined: Posts: 895
    Last of the Xmania 4 3of3 . To my knowledge this is ALL of them.

    Here is also some Random ST matches.

    Matches to note on the random set are. All of the Kenvsxxx or rogvsxxx these were taken by NKI at More in Tokyo. The ken is truly amazing and the rog is super agresive. Also I have included the ST finals from SBO1.

    I will be letting this seed for a few days.
  • ShinjiGohanShinjiGohan Joined: Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    CigarBoB wrote:
    Yes
    Doesn't seem like it, I see matches from disk 3, 4, 5 and 6. (which had 45,44,43,40 matches respectively)
  • CigarBoBCigarBoB Joined: Posts: 895
    well if 1 and 2 were released I never knew abou them. If they are out there I sure would love to find them.
  • Don CalzoneDon Calzone Joined: Posts: 291
    I see that Apoc is playing O.Boxer in the EVO 3v3-matches, does O.Boxer has any major advantages over the N.Boxer? I mean, Ns super is one of the tightest in the game by far.
    S-L-I-C-E.
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  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    ssf2xj.rc0 = Ryu reversal throwing Dic out of meaty slide

    Seems to me that Ryu woke up at the moment the slide was over (even if Dic was still in his slide animation, it may not be an active frame).


    ssf2xj.rc1 = magic unthrowable slide

    Seems normal to me


    ssf2xj.rc2 = Sim reversal throwing Chun's meaty st.Fierce (palm)

    I have no explanation for that one... maybe dhalsim woke up at the exact end of the st fierce


    ssf2xj.rc3 = magic unthrowable palm

    Normal


    ssf2xj.rc4 = Cammy reversal throwing Boxer's Final TAP

    This file didn't work : Cammy gets hit (I tried to play it back several times)


    ssf2xj.rc5 = magic unthrowable Final TAP

    Doesn't seem magic to me lol


    I just recorded these files :

    rc0 : dhalsim trying to throw chunli when waking up into her st fierce
    rc1 : same as above but dhalsim tries to use his noogie this time
    rc2 & rc3 : same as the other files, but with ryu trying to throw
    and Dic doing a slide (rc2 : middle of the screen rc3 : corner)

    Here is the link : http://atlas.walagata.com/w/eishi/no.reversal.throws.rar
  • ShagShag The Chessmaster Joined: Posts: 718
    I see that Apoc is playing O.Boxer in the EVO 3v3-matches, does O.Boxer has any major advantages over the N.Boxer? I mean, Ns super is one of the tightest in the game by far.

    O. Boxer's straight dash punch hits ducking characters where as N. Boxer's doesn't.

    N.Boxer lost this ability in ST but acquired the low rush punch that hits low and knocks down
    and of course his super combo which hits ducking characters

    Both boxers TAP hits ducking characters.
    Juffo-Wup fills in my fibers and I grow turgid. Violent action ensues.
  • NKINKI Mashers Joined: Posts: 1,788
    Eishi wrote:
    Seems to me that Ryu woke up at the moment the slide was over (even if Dic was still in his slide animation, it may not be an active frame).
    The slide most definitely is meaty (it hasn't ended yet). I think it's pretty obvious to the naked eye, but if you don't believe me, stop the playback after Dic does the slide (but before Ryu throws him). Ryu will get hit, so the slide is indeed meaty.

    Dic's slide has one huge window of hitting frames ("active frames", as you call them). There are no "inactive frames" in that window.
    ssf2xj.rc1 = magic unthrowable slide

    Seems normal to me
    Maybe you missed the point here. You can clearly hear the normal move whiff (which means normal move reversals are also possible), and that means that sometimes you just randomly can't reversal throw, for whatever reason. That's not normal.
    ssf2xj.rc2 = Sim reversal throwing Chun's meaty st.Fierce (palm)

    I have no explanation for that one... maybe dhalsim woke up at the exact end of the st fierce
    Negative. Again, if you stop the playback after Chun does the st.Fierce (but before Sim throws her), you will see that Dhalsim gets hit, so it is indeed a meaty (it hasn't ended yet).
    ssf2xj.rc4 = Cammy reversal throwing Boxer's Final TAP

    This file didn't work : Cammy gets hit (I tried to play it back several times)
    Sorry, I forgot to mention that you need to turn on Boxer's Full Turnpunch in the cheats menu. (I didn't have time to sit there manually charging for Final TAP.)

    I haven't had a chance to watch your playbacks yet, but if you're trying to prove that reversal throws don't exist, you can't do that through playbacks (you can't prove a negative). The burden of proof is on me (to prove that they do exist), and I believe I've done a sufficient job of that.

    I really am surprised reversal throws are even being questioned. It's common knowledge among ST players...


    -Nicholai!
    It was a fun ten years.

    http://nki.combovideos.com
    Thanks to BlazeD and Preppy for hosting!
    Avatar by Buttermaker.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I question their existence because :

    -In my experience as a player, I never encountered them

    -It's not logical at all. No sf game has reversal normal throws or reversal normal moves. By definition a reversal can only be done with special moves.

    How am I supposed to beleive that they exist when I'm able to hit with a meaty attack a charater getting up with an "autofire throw" ? I tested several times with several charatcers. However I can conceive that reversal throws might exist under specific conditions, but if this is the case I would be very interested to know how and why they can be done.

    I really am surprised reversal throws are even being questioned. It's common knowledge among ST players...

    I also know that there were (and are) lots of things that were believed to be true by most people that were later proven to be false. We don't have all the technical data and informations that japanese players have, so people often imagine things and rules that doesn't exist. That's why I always verify the informations that I come accross.


    Edit :
    Maybe you missed the point here. You can clearly hear the normal move whiff (which means normal move reversals are also possible)

    I watched this file again several times, -frame by frame- and I only saw ryu starting to enter in guard animation, then the next frame he got hit by the slide. There wasn't any move whiffing.
  • VManOfManaVManOfMana The True Eternal Joined: Posts: 1,173
    So, just making sure.

    The X-Mania torrent that CigarBob is posting includes the matches of the X-Mania CD 6 posted on CV.com?
    Seiken / VMan of Mana
    "Be Prepare for the eternity battle."
  • Nick T.Nick T. Joined: Posts: 3,976
    Good vids. I DLed group 1. I liked the Ken in b131-b133. :tup:
    "It's not your characters' weakness, but weakness in yourself.
    Practice it hard and you can beat anybody." -Kuni
  • dialupsuckydialupsucky FINAL SHOWDOWN Joined: Posts: 2,831 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    why can ryu easily tiger knee hurricane kick foward like ken,akuma BUT he can not tiger knee hurricane kick backwards as easily? As a matter of fact I almost belive theres a stipulation to tiger kneeing backwards with ryu as sometimes its just like any other move. And other times it seems impossible to do with ryu for some reason.

    Is there any legit reason why this is like this with ryu?
  • CigarBoBCigarBoB Joined: Posts: 895
    VManOfMana wrote:
    So, just making sure.

    The X-Mania torrent that CigarBob is posting includes the matches of the X-Mania CD 6 posted on CV.com?

    Yes the final batch has the vids that were posted at CV.com.

    But alot of the first and second batch were not posted at CV I found them before CV took off like it is now.


    On the meaty throw timing. IMO (and its only my opinion) a well timed meaty can only be blocked.

    Take Gief for example if you knock down with a cr.rh and then walk up and meaty them again you have to either block or time a perfect reversal DP with ryu. AFAIK you only have 1-2 frames to time it right. Characters like Rog/DJ can do a rising move beacuse they take off instantly and are invincable. But I have never seen a "Reversal throw" take me out of a meaty RH with gief.

    I say if you really want to test it use Gief cr.RH as the meaty and then see what you get.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Haha..well since you're gonna take some shots, i might as well then myself. You think the 1 bad fireball = 50% damage is funny...try making "some" players quit playing when they're in the corner. Now that stuff is hilarious...even my casual non-hardcore buds who stopped playing SF don't quit like that. Or the line, "you make it boring"...pleez, get that non-hardcore talk out of there. Yea, and shotos vs sim is an uphill battle, yet no complaints from me. That crack about the asswhoopins is also quite amusing. I also find it funny how when the moment the super meter gets lit, all fundamentals go out the window with the shoto...its all about the knee bash and throw...yet if it doesn't land...no plan B. LOL, i'm just messing man, but don't expect me to just idle while you get all the shots, as it's a 2 way street. It should be fun to play you at evo...I know you're good on pad, but if you want to play us on a saturn style go for it...use whatever you need.

    Yeah, I get frustrated and quit if I am getting my ass handed to me. Anger doesn't help my game....especially when I can SWEAR I did a move and it didn't come out(countering a missed dp only to get slapped with another). But that's online play for ya.

    Havent played on a Saturn pad. I hear they are good. With I still had my old Capcom Soldier Pad :karate:

    I hope come evo you can play on a stick as well as you can on a pad. :tup:
  • N-TradeN-Trade Joined: Posts: 63
    Eishi wrote:
    I question their existence because :

    -In my experience as a player, I never encountered them

    -It's not logical at all. No sf game has reversal normal throws or reversal normal moves. By definition a reversal can only be done with special moves.

    I disagree with your definition of a reversal but it would be nice if it could be clarified once and for all. From what I've always understood it to be, a reversal in ST is where u go from any of these four states:

    Block Stun
    Hit Stun
    Ground Recovery
    Air to Ground recovery

    immediately into an attack, with no neutral frames in between. So be it punch, throw, special or super they all count as a reversal. (But u only get the bonus message with specials & supers)

    I'm sure if u play one of the SF EX games you'll see a reversal message for normal attacks.

    On a somewhat unrelated note, I dunno how u guys test the frame data stuff with kawaks but can someone prove (or disprove) the legend that T.Hawk's cr.strong into Super really is irreversable. Never been able to recreate the scenario where it says reversal after, say a dp, but the character still gets thrown.
  • N-TradeN-Trade Joined: Posts: 63
    CigarBoB wrote:
    But I have never seen a "Reversal throw" take me out of a meaty RH with gief.

    I say if you really want to test it use Gief cr.RH as the meaty and then see what you get.

    But were u using the meaty cr.RH at full range. Assumin u were, this is prolly out of all chars throw range except maybe sim. Just curious.
  • SuperkingSuperking dat mooney dolemite Joined: Posts: 2,252 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Best thread in FGD. :tup:
    DS: she's looking hot in that interview, fuck, keep in mind, i don't have yellow fever, i just know a hot girl when i see one, gonna rape her and call her julia chang
    Superking: lol
    DS: julia chang for life
  • CigarBoBCigarBoB Joined: Posts: 895
    N-Trade wrote:
    But were u using the meaty cr.RH at full range. Assumin u were, this is prolly out of all chars throw range except maybe sim. Just curious.

    NO do it right up next to them when they are getting up. So they get up into the Cr.RH.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    N-Trade :

    A reversal is defined as the action of cancelling the last frames of the following animations with a special move :

    Block Stun
    Hit Stun
    Ground Recovery
    Air to Ground recovery

    This definition is, as far as I know, valid for all the SF games (I don't consider the SF EX series to be real SF games, since they weren't made by Capcom) that were released after SF2CE, SF2T being the first SF game to implement reversals .
  • Gen-AnGen-An 何で彼女出来ない? Joined: Posts: 616
    Shag wrote:
    O. Boxer's straight dash punch hits ducking characters where as N. Boxer's doesn't.

    One reason why the Saturn version of ST cannot be used in a tournament is that O. Boxer's Dash Straight whiffs crouching opponents, making him almost as useless as US CE Boxer!
    Cast in the name of God, ye not guilty
  • margalismargalis Joined: Posts: 714
    Since a couple of people were asking about this, in the XMania vids you can see an example of N.Ken doing a HCF+K through a grounded opponent and coming out on the other side. It's in xm4_2117_b311_ken_ken.wmv

    Ken jumps in with fierce->hurricane, hits a low rh->hurricane kick, then whiffs the HCF+K to get on the other side, then does fierce->jab dragon. Nice little sequence.

    Edit: Later in the third set of XMania vids in a Ken vs. Ryu match you see Ken knock Ryu down in the corner and do the step crescent kick (F, DF, D + K) to step over him as Ryu attacks the wrong direction, then end up back on the original side and throw Ryu. This is because the step crescent steps forward and then steps back again, whereas the HCF+kick just steps forward.
  • ShinjiGohanShinjiGohan Joined: Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Eishi wrote:
    A reversal is defined as the action of cancelling the last frames of the following animations with a special move :

    Block Stun
    Hit Stun
    Ground Recovery
    Air to Ground recovery

    This definition is, as far as I know, valid for all the SF games (I don't consider the SF EX series to be real SF games, since they weren't made by Capcom) that were released after SF2CE, SF2T being the first SF game to implement reversals .

    While I agree with your definition of reversals. No need to hate in SF EX series. Besides, IIRC you can't do reversals from normal moves in EX anyway. And with it made by the same people who originally made SF2, its probably more SF than some of the later additions to the series.
  • SuperFXSuperFX YOU GET NOTHING Joined: Posts: 1,065
    Thanks for the vids, Cigarbob...I'll prolly continue to seed for the next day or so. :bgrin:

    edit...I totally forgot to thank Nick for the footage so...cheers bro :lame:
    The 20-mule-team dominates
  • NKINKI Mashers Joined: Posts: 1,788
    Eishi wrote:
    -In my experience as a player, I never encountered them
    In my experience, I encounter them practically every single match (maybe even every single round). Not just myself, but other players (Japanese and American) do reversal throws quite regularly.
    -It's not logical at all. No sf game has reversal normal throws or reversal normal moves.
    That is incorrect. All pre-Alpha 3 games except WW have reversal throws (because throws are 0-frame moves). This will work in CE, HF, SSF2, ST, A1, A2, and even the Marvel series (I've only tested it in XSF and MvC2). In Alpha 3, throws were no longer instant, so they can't be done as reversals.
    By definition a reversal can only be done with special moves.
    Sorry, where did you get that definition from? That is not correct. You will only get a reversal message for Specials/Supers, but it can be done with normals and throws as well.
    How am I supposed to beleive that they exist when I'm able to hit with a meaty attack a charater getting up with an "autofire throw" ?
    Are you using a turbo controller? If so, that is not an accurate way to do it, because turbo controllers do not input once every frame. An emulator's macros would be a much better way to go, but even that isn't 100% accurate. For Kawaks, use this macro: 2,+

    which basically means "input Strong punch, advance to next frame, input Strong punch again".

    Hold back or towards while using that macro, and you can get reversal throws pretty easily. If you don't get the reversal throw, you can hear the reversal normal come out. There are also rare times where you just get hit clean, and that's the emulator not inputting on every single frame.
    I also know that there were (and are) lots of things that were believed to be true by most people that were later proven to be false. We don't have all the technical data and informations that japanese players have, so people often imagine things and rules that doesn't exist. That's why I always verify the informations that I come accross.
    That's perfectly understandable, but given the evidence I presented you with, I don't understand how you can still deny reversal throws.
    I watched this file again several times, -frame by frame- and I only saw ryu starting to enter in guard animation, then the next frame he got hit by the slide. There wasn't any move whiffing.
    Of course you're not going to see the move come out; he's getting hit on the first frame of it. However, I said if you listen (turn up your volume) you can clearly hear his normal move come out, right before he gets hit, indicating that he did a reversal normal.
    N-Trade wrote:
    From what I've always understood it to be, a reversal in ST is where u go from any of these four states:

    Block Stun
    Hit Stun
    Ground Recovery
    Air to Ground recovery

    immediately into an attack, with no neutral frames in between.
    Mostly correct, but you can also do reversals out of dizzy stun.

    To sum it up, a reversal is any time you go from a non-neutral state directly into a move, without ever going to neutral state. A non-neutral state is any state the opponent afflicts on you where you can't do a move, so that means: block stun, hit stun, dizzy stun, while getting up (after being knocked down), and while recovering to the ground (after being hit out of the air).
    So be it punch, throw, special or super they all count as a reversal. (But u only get the bonus message with specials & supers)
    Right.
    can someone prove (or disprove) the legend that T.Hawk's cr.strong into Super really is irreversable.
    That is false. It is irreversable only in very specific (and very few) situations. Every character has a reversal to beat tick throws. Ryu and Ken can DP, Chun can use upkicks or Spinning Bird Kick, Gief can SPD, etc. The only exception is Dic - his super is his only good reversal, so if he has no meter, you can get guaranteed ticks on him.
    Never been able to recreate the scenario where it says reversal after, say a dp, but the character still gets thrown.
    That's the scenario you would need to prove it's irreversable, but you will never get that scenario.
    Eishi wrote:
    A reversal is defined as the action of cancelling the last frames of the following animations with a special move :

    Block Stun
    Hit Stun
    Ground Recovery
    Air to Ground recovery

    This definition is, as far as I know, valid for all the SF games (I don't consider the SF EX series to be real SF games, since they weren't made by Capcom) that were released after SF2CE, SF2T being the first SF game to implement reversals .
    A couple of things here...

    First of all, there is no rule that says it must be a special move. Only specials/supers will give you the reversal message, but as I showed in those replays, you can also do reversal normals and reversal throws.

    Secondly, you can also do reversals out of dizzy stun.

    Thirdly, aside from WW, all the old school games (CE, HF, SSF2, and ST) have the same reversal system. SSF2 was the first game to give you the reversal message, but reversals exist in CE and HF as well. Otherwise [tick throw, repeat] would still be a game-winning strategy like in WW.


    -Nicholai!
    It was a fun ten years.

    http://nki.combovideos.com
    Thanks to BlazeD and Preppy for hosting!
    Avatar by Buttermaker.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Eishi wrote:
    I also know that there were (and are) lots of things that were believed to be true by most people that were later proven to be false. We don't have all the technical data and informations that japanese players have, so people often imagine things and rules that doesn't exist. That's why I always verify the informations that I come accross.

    If only someone who's been in Japan for a while could verify this and start his own ST thread!
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    In my experience, I encounter them practically every single match (maybe even every single round). Not just myself, but other players (Japanese and American) do reversal throws quite regularly.

    Yes, getting up and throwing is very common, but you never cancel your ground recovery animation with a throw.

    For Kawaks, use this macro: 2,+

    This is exactly what I used


    Here is a clear proof that reversal throws don't exist :

    untitled29dy.jpg


    And here are the Kawaks replays that I used : http://atlas.walagata.com/w/eishi/recinput.rar

    rc0 : Ken does a reversal DP while getting up
    rc1 : Ken tries to do a reversal mp
    rc2 : Ken tries to do a reversal throw

    Compare rc0 with the two others and watch them frame by frame. It is perfectly clear that in the first file, Ken cancels the animation, while in the two others he can't do anything before the ground recovery animation is completely over.
  • Duck StrongDuck Strong Yin to all Yang Joined: Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Fair enough, but can we agree that the grounded player's throw takes precedence over that of the attacker?
    My youtube channel (various MVC3 vids etc.):

    http://www.youtube.com/user/CrouchStrong?feature=mhsn
  • ShinAkumaxShinAkumax Slick Vic Avatar Joined: Posts: 2,055
    Stomping in skulls...for no reason! Lol I never noticed.
    This becomes that.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Fair enough, but can we agree that the grounded player's throw takes precedence over that of the attacker?

    Yes, and for a simple reason : the grounded player can mash it and the throw will come out as soon as he finishes his recovery. The attacker can't do that, because he has to wait for the grounded player to completely finish his recovery before he can throw him.
  • Duck StrongDuck Strong Yin to all Yang Joined: Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I don't think the standing player can even theoretically grab the grounded player first. The guy on the ground must get flagged as invincible to throws for a few frames.
    My youtube channel (various MVC3 vids etc.):

    http://www.youtube.com/user/CrouchStrong?feature=mhsn
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Theorically the standing player can grab the grounded opponent as soon as the ground recovery animation is over. But this isn't something anyone should try because you have something like 95 % chances of getting thrown. In order to throw the recovering player, you would have to do the throw motion at the exact moment where he completely recovers... whereas the grounded player just has to mash the throw motion.
  • Duck StrongDuck Strong Yin to all Yang Joined: Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I have never seen that happen in 14 years of playing SF2 so you'll have to excuse my skepticism. But while we're talking technical, what happens if both players(both within their respective throw ranges) throw at the exact same time? I assume they just both attack, but maybe someone randomly gets priority.
    My youtube channel (various MVC3 vids etc.):

    http://www.youtube.com/user/CrouchStrong?feature=mhsn
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I have never seen that happen in 14 years of playing SF2 so you'll have to excuse my skepticism.

    That's why I said that in this particular situation the grounded player has 95 % chances of throwing the other. Maybe I should've said 99 %, anyways what I wanted to say is that it's theorically possible, but practically very unprobable.

    But while we're talking technical, what happens if both players(both within their respective throw ranges) throw at the exact same time?

    I just tested that on Kawaks and it turned out that in this situation, one of the players randomly gets the priority.
  • Gen-AnGen-An 何で彼女出来ない? Joined: Posts: 616
    why can ryu easily tiger knee hurricane kick foward like ken,akuma BUT he can not tiger knee hurricane kick backwards as easily? As a matter of fact I almost belive theres a stipulation to tiger kneeing backwards with ryu as sometimes its just like any other move. And other times it seems impossible to do with ryu for some reason.

    Is there any legit reason why this is like this with ryu?

    I've wondered why Ryu's instant air-HK is so hard to get out myself.
    Cast in the name of God, ye not guilty
  • NKINKI Mashers Joined: Posts: 1,788
    Eishi wrote:
    Yes, getting up and throwing is very common, but you never cancel your ground recovery animation with a throw.
    Did you even watch the replays that I uploaded? I canceled the ground recovery animation with a throw. I never went to neutral state before throwing. I did a reversal throw.

    Please go watch those replays again, frame by frame.

    What you uploaded doesn't prove anything about whether or not they are actually possible. Your logic is "I can't get reversal throws using macros, therefore they don't exist", and that is completely wrong because I can get reversal throws, I showed you this, and I didn't even need to use macros, so it's not that hard.

    I will not continue on this topic any further, because the evidence that I've given you is more than enough. If you want to ignore it, that's not my problem.
    Eishi wrote:
    Theorically the standing player can grab the grounded opponent as soon as the ground recovery animation is over.
    This is not true. After getting up, there is a considerable amount of "throw invincibility" where you are otherwise in neutral state (you can be hit, you can do moves, you can throw, etc), but you can not be thrown.


    -Nicholai!
    It was a fun ten years.

    http://nki.combovideos.com
    Thanks to BlazeD and Preppy for hosting!
    Avatar by Buttermaker.
  • Gen-AnGen-An 何で彼女出来ない? Joined: Posts: 616
    NKI wrote:
    This is not true. After getting up, there is a considerable amount of "throw invincibility" where you are otherwise in neutral state (you can be hit, you can do moves, you can throw, etc), but you can not be thrown.

    I can attest to this. With Zangief you can wait until the instant a downed opponent to fully stands up, input SPD motion and it will whiff. I dunno why Capcom mucked things up after ST by making it so you can throw the opponent much earlier. Couldn't Gief in A2 for instance do a "meaty" SPD?
    Cast in the name of God, ye not guilty
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