Super Street Fighter II Turbo, in the house

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  • BoggleMindsBoggleMinds Joined: Posts: 335
    Only wednesday night. Every other night go to HEY.

    Yeah, so I went to Mikado last night (Wednesday) with the freeplay for 500Yen. Things were quiet for a while, then players started showing up around 6pm. All five setups at the front were converted to ST for the freeplay, and the place was eventually packed. Notably, VIPER was there wrecking shop along with his pink T.Hawk disciple (Shin?). There were also some good Chuns, Guiles and a decent Ryu player or two. I myself played yellow Boxer (Shiki Bison is my inspiration) and Ryu. Competition was tough as expected -- I don't think I got a win streak longer than four matches all night. There was another Boxer player there, he is a foreigner and about the same level as me, not sure who he is though and didn't ask.

    Anyway after a while I saw Hakase show up wearing sunglasses and earphones. He didn't play for a while, but then randomly hopped on a cab and started destroying people left and right. There was a long line that included VIPER, pink T.Hawk, strong Ken and Ryu players as well as myself that all took turns at him to no avail. I think I played Hakase about four or five times, and got a round off twice but other than that it was very difficult. Obviously, he's one of the top two Dhalsims in Japan and winning even a single game would just be highly improbable. Eventually VIPER ended his streak after maybe half an hour. By the way, VIPER pulled off a standing 720 twice that night, to which everyone watching gasped in surprise.

    Hakase was also owning it up with DeeJay and Fei Long. I really appreciate seeing and playing a top player of his calibre, it kind of shows the dedication and mastery of play style required to reach that level.

    Incidentally earlier in the night I played Jodim and went 1-1 before he left. He didn't seem to be as scary or have that invincible aura that he had on GGPO. I thought to say hello afterwards but it seems he left early.

    I visited HEY and whilst there were strong players everywhere (including one guy who might have been Inoki judging by his playstyle and level), there was one black Ryu player who really stood out. He was very good in the Boxer matchup, played exactly like ShootingD, and was destroying Inoki (?) as well in the Ryu mirror match with superb footsies and execution. I looked over but it wasn't him, and since ShootingD is from Kansai it'd be highly unlikely anyway.

    I had also visited Mikado earlier this week, and AFO was there tearing up some blue Ryu player. I got on and won immediately with Boxer, and from there on had maybe a 40% win rate against him. I also faced a Gief player who didn't seem that scary in the Boxer matchup; I went 4-1 against him. Later he came to my side and I realised it was Pony, which was quite surprising. He was probably having a bad day as it took him ages to win against AFO (although it's a tough matchup, I know).

    I really wanted to see Shiki Bison play in person, but due to my own ineptitude missed the opportunity to spectate the Danisen battles at GameSpot Versus. I don't know if he'd show up regularly though. Perhaps next time.

    Anyway this has been my first experience playing ST in the arcades in Japan. I have to say that it's obviously a lot more hardcore here, which is exactly what I expected. I knew the level on GGPO had fallen (in terms of Japanese players) over the past few years, but wasn't prepared for this great of a difference. Most of the players at Mikado would be considered top on GGPO, compared to the existing JP playerbase as I remember it.

    I will be visiting Kyoto soon, and then Osaka, so hopefully I can get some more mini-logs up for A-cho and Kouhatsu arcades respectively.
    "My first visit to an arcade changed my life. It was such a sensational experience. The fact I got to play with total strangers and connect with them through the game enthralled me." --Daigo Umehara

    www.youtube.com/Guoguodi
    GGPO Handle: Gizzle
  • GanelonGanelon Joined: Posts: 1,101
    The black Ryu may have been Kawamata. He's probably the most solid LP color Ryu in Kanto right now. Anyway, I hope you get the chance to play Shiki and see how he seems to nail things a bit better than pretty much any other boxer. It's sort of funny how these casuals are possibly the most competitive series of matches we've experienced but for them, it was Wednesday.

    And yeah, for anyone visiting Tokyo, don't forget the Game Spot Versus danisen every 1st and 3rd Sunday of the month. I regret that team USA didn't have a chance to compete at a danisen when we were there. I think it's a better test of overall skills in a situation where both players have the desire to win.
  • FuddFudd High Level Parking Joined: Posts: 1,215
    It's sort of funny how these casuals are possibly the most competitive series of matches we've experienced but for them, it was Wednesday.

    :rofl: Too good. I really need to make this trip someday, I'd love to see The Doctor and all the other big names play in-person.
    "See, Super Turbo is a real man's game... But Street Fighter 4's like Chuck-E-Cheese, baby. Y'know what I'm saying? Where a kid can be a kid. I'm a grown-ass man, so clearly I'm not old enough to go in the ball pit." -Steve Harrison (Translation: dat Fo' make you soft)
    Super Turbo Revival
    "Everyone has a plan until they get magnetized." -SpiderDan
    PSN: Metonymous | Battle.net: Noun#1214 | Steam: Noun Proper | YT
  • BoggleMindsBoggleMinds Joined: Posts: 335
    The black Ryu may have been Kawamata. He's probably the most solid LP color Ryu in Kanto right now. Anyway, I hope you get the chance to play Shiki and see how he seems to nail things a bit better than pretty much any other boxer. It's sort of funny how these casuals are possibly the most competitive series of matches we've experienced but for them, it was Wednesday.

    There's a reason Nuki calls Shiki the "Genius Boxer", and that he was glad to have him as a teammate for SBO. The dude just plays things right, and is a lot more inspiring/nice to watch than even Tsuji or Tamashima.
    And yeah, for anyone visiting Tokyo, don't forget the Game Spot Versus danisen every 1st and 3rd Sunday of the month. I regret that team USA didn't have a chance to compete at a danisen when we were there. I think it's a better test of overall skills in a situation where both players have the desire to win.

    You're right, I later realised that it was Kawamata Ryu. There are no other Black Ryu's on that level in Tokyo that I know of, apart from maybe Sashishi.

    Well, bit of an update. Tonight there was a random 2v2 tournament at Mikado to celebrate the New Year. I got to the place at around 8pm and played casuals for a while, doing fairly mediocre and again not getting any streak longer than about three wins. After a while lots of players started showing up, including Mattsun (incidentally from watching vids he seemed not as threatening as Aniken in the Boxer matchup, which I pretty much confirmed after playing him and having a 50% win rate over several games).

    Hakase and KKY showed up, as well as the T.Hawk crew of Hiroyan, VIPER and Shin, as well as numerous famous players. I put my name down as "Gizzle" on the registration sheet, and noticed that most of the other players were actually quite well known. There were about 32 players (16 teams). From the top of my head, the following (well-known) players were present:

    • Ryu: Kawamata, Sashishi
    • Ken: Hanma, Mattsun
    • Guile: Tsunoppi
    • Chun Li: Toukon, Jenety
    • Zangief: Cello-Tape, Pony
    • Honda: Nia, N.Shogatsu
    • Cammy: Nakamura
    • Dhalsim: Hakase, KKY, Yoshimura
    • T.Hawk: VIPER, Shin, Hiroyan
    • Fei Long: YURI
    • Blanka: AFO

    I was the only Boxer player there. I was also surprised to realise that one of the arcade helper dudes was actually Nakamura (he seems to work at Mikado). He looks really young too. There were some other players there, but no Claw or Sagat.

    Before the tournament started, AFO came up to me and complimented me on having a nice Boxer. He said I reminded him of Shiki Bison, at which I was really surprised and flattered. I didn't know what to say so I told him that he has a very strong Blanka (lol).

    For the tournament I ended up teamed with Kawamata Ryu (!), which was kind of a nice coincidence as he was the same dude owning me at HEY earlier in the week. We introduced ourselves and then proceeded to watch the matches. Whilst spectating the matches I was pretty much mentally preparing to get raped, and caught myself rehearsing an apology to Kawamata for being so weak. Whilst we were waiting, Sashishi asked Kawamata who he was teamed up with, and I introduced myself as 'Gizzle'. It's kind of funny since Mattsun (who was commentating the matches) didn't know how to pronounce it and had to ask Nakamura.

    After quite a while, our turn finally came up and I told Kawamata I would go first against a DeeJay/Honda team whose players I'd never heard of. I started off badly against the DeeJay player, getting almost perfected. Somehow I recovered and managed to beat him, as well as the Honda player who wasn't that good (for example he used the walk up super, which Rog can easily punish). I didn't play that well but still managed to win, which of course surprised Kawamata who gave me encouragement.

    More matches followed, and at some point our next match came up which was Shin (T.Hawk) / Sashishi (Ryu). I said I would go first again, knowing that I had beaten Shin earlier in casuals and knew I could win the fight. I did well in this fight, using dash uppers to counter his jump-ins cleanly and won 2-0. Next up was Sashishi, someone who I'd actually searched up a lot on YouTube as well, being a Ryu player myself. I honestly don't remember too clearly, but I managed to win against him as well 2-0! People behind me were surprised, including Kawamata who was grinning. He told me that Sashishi is a really strong Ryu player, which I agreed. I said I got lucky. :clown: I could see Nia and Hakase eyeing me curiously as well.

    Whilst we were waiting on for the next match, Kawamata asked me where I was from. I said I was a tourist from Australia, to which he asked if we play ST there too. I said yes, although our scene is pretty much non-existent and hence our level is fairly low. I also told him that I had seen vids of him playing on YouTube, at which he laughed.

    The next match was against Mattsun/Nakamura. I wanted to go first again, and sat down to select character. I think I must've misunderstood something, because (in hindsight) it seems Kawamata might've preferred to go first -- he was saying that Nakamura is really dangerous and strong (against Boxer). Upon reflection, I remember Graham Wolfe writing a log from 2007 where he mentioned playing Nakamura Cammy with Boxer and losing like thirty straight or something, at which he concluded that it was a bad matchup for Boxer...

    So I end up facing Mattsun first, and I was actually fairly confident since I played him before in casuals and to be honest his Ken didn't seem that dangerous against Boxer, although I was to be proven wrong. In the first round he landed a DP knockdown into knee bash loop, which Boxer can't do anything about. In the second round, I played well, avoiding his DPs and won. In the final round, he got another knockdown and just knee-bashed me to death. I didn't feel too bad but was honestly disappointed because I felt there was a good chance I could've beaten him.

    Kawamata then faced Mattsun, and played pretty well going 1-1 but ironically lost in the final round to a kneebash into super chip. It was really close though, they both had almost zero life left and he could've taken it -- I guess that's the randomness of ST. Afterwards I thanked and apologised to Kawamata, but he seemed amiable. He seems to be a really friendly/easy-going guy overall.

    The final was Mattsun/Nakamura vs N.Shogatsu/(some Dic player). Nakamura was on fire all night with clutch plays, and managed to take out the Dic player. Unfortunately he had to face one of Cammy's toughest matchups next and couldn't beat Shogatsu. Mattsun came next, but he seemed to choke against Shogatsu, and it was a fairly funny match that came down to the wire, and Mattsun choking at the last minute. So Shogatsu's team ended up winning (fitting too since his name means New Year).

    By now it was past midnight and I had to head to Shibuya to meet a friend. I said thanks and goodbye to Kawamata, who thanked me as well. I wish I could have taken a photo or something because the place was packed and the atmosphere was incredible. The Japanese scene really is something different. Hakase lost early on yet was watching on, each match with a smile or laugh on his face. The players are really friendly and there's a real sense of community.

    Overall it was a really good experience and a fitting way to end my stay in Tokyo and the year as well.

    More to come for Kyoto/Osaka?
    "My first visit to an arcade changed my life. It was such a sensational experience. The fact I got to play with total strangers and connect with them through the game enthralled me." --Daigo Umehara

    www.youtube.com/Guoguodi
    GGPO Handle: Gizzle
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,568
    There were some other players there, but no Claw or Sagat.
    I was the only Boxer player there.

    I think I might have a chance there... wait, this is not in the US?


    PS : you can speak japanese?

    PPS: Love japan logs, we should be on rotation going to japan so we can have these once a month or something

    PPPS: They are probably frowning upon you using babyzone Boxer. Right damdai? :)

    Edit : Happy new year to everyone! And enjoy your new year stay @ japan, gizzle.
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
    Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
  • BoggleMindsBoggleMinds Joined: Posts: 335
    I think I might have a chance there... wait, this is not in the US?


    PS : you can speak japanese?

    PPS: Love japan logs, we should be on rotation going to japan so we can have these once a month or something

    PPPS: They are probably frowning upon you using babyzone Boxer. Right damdai? :)

    I can speak basic Japanese, it's still somewhat broken but apparently I have really good pronunciation so people probably get confused (I'm Chinese) thinking I'm some retard Japanese who can't speak properly.

    Boxer isn't that popular of a character here, from what I can tell. In an interview after Evo 2005, Gian said that there are a lot of players using Claw, Boxer, O.Sagat in the US (basically top tier), whilst in Japan, Guile, Ken and N.Sagat are really popular characters that don't get used as much in the US.

    Funnily enough, during casuals I was having a hard time against an orange Boxer who was pretty damn good. Later I found out it was Hakase. Dude's just good. Too bad he lost in a mirror match against KKY during the tournament. I really wanted to fight a Dhalsim with yellow Boxer (I know this sounds gay, but Shiki Bison is that inspirational; you can see the influence he has had on Boxer players in Japan).
    "My first visit to an arcade changed my life. It was such a sensational experience. The fact I got to play with total strangers and connect with them through the game enthralled me." --Daigo Umehara

    www.youtube.com/Guoguodi
    GGPO Handle: Gizzle
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Top player impressions about SSF4, Alpha and ST, + VS stories

    SRK blog post.

    Not really just "top players," they are pretty much the cream of the crop when it comes to fighting games. The message is getting repetitive, but we do not care: the truth must be spread.
  • jpj1983jpj1983 Joined: Posts: 156
    good read gizzle & well done on your performance at the 2v2 :woot:
  • BoggleMindsBoggleMinds Joined: Posts: 335
    Since I'm leaving Japan tomorrow, I thought I might finish up my mini-log series with a small update. I visited Kyoto, and of course checked out A-CHO, however the arcade only had one cab with AE at the time, and there was no (good) comp in sight. Bit of a let down to be honest, but I guess I found out first hand that the Kyoto scene for ST is pretty dead. Must be more comp in Nagoya which I didn't visit. Later, I also checked out Kohatsu arcade in Osaka, though again unfortunately I missed the best time as they'd had a massive 2on2 tournament just after Christmas with all the top Kansai players. Nonetheless on the nights I went there were some strong players, including an amazing Dic player who uses the beige color.

    Finally I returned to Tokyo today (Wednesday) and visited Mikado one last time for the freeplay. Most of the regular crew (including SHIN@Hawk and Kawamata Ryu) were there. Kawamata spotted me and said hello. I told him I'd be leaving Japan the next day and might as well pay one last visit to the arcade, heh. He laughed and nodded. Really cool dude.

    I did better this time than previously, at one point getting a streak of about eight wins. Although overall it was still patchy; the level was just that high. SHIN (pink T.Hawk player) seemed to have trouble in the Boxer matchup because I had a 80+% win rate against him, and he kept doing things like jumping at me which is cleanly countered, DP'ing randomly etc (although Hawk, especially N.Hawk, basically has to rely on random knockdowns). I also played Muneo (O.Sagat), and had about 25% win rate against him. He knows how to punish every possible move that Boxer tries in this matchup. My execution needs work as I lost quite a few winnable matches due to flubbed moves. Shiki Bison makes it look too easy in those vids.

    Anyway, that's it for now I guess. As I was leaving Mikado I thought to myself, "I won't be here again possibly for several years" which was a poignant thought, and the same obviously applies to Japan as a whole. Most likely will be a while, but I'd definitely like to return. Like so many before me, I've made the pilgrimage to the mecca of ST and come away enlightened. Definitely visit if you can! :woot:
    "My first visit to an arcade changed my life. It was such a sensational experience. The fact I got to play with total strangers and connect with them through the game enthralled me." --Daigo Umehara

    www.youtube.com/Guoguodi
    GGPO Handle: Gizzle
  • VirtuaFighterFourVirtuaFighterFour VirtuaFighter.com Joined: Posts: 1,572
    Maj just did another one of his awesome 'five questions' series, this time with Justin Wong, and Maj threw in some Super Turbo related questions. Here's the one that will probably get the most attention from the SFII scene.
    Maj: Haha seriously though, what?s your opinion of ST and what are your all-time favorite games?

    Justin: I love ST a lot. Even though I play a very cheap character aka Ol? Sagat. The game is cheap. And I believe that cheap games are really fun because as the individual, you want to overcome the cheapness. I would love to play ST at every tournament which I already do, but I wouldn?t play HDR unless I wanted to beat certain individuals because they think they are nice. LOL
    VF5:FS - Akira, Jean, Wolf, Taka
    VF4/EVO/FT - Wolf, Akira, Goh, Kage, Jacky
    ST - Dictator, Hawk, Boxer, Honda, O.Hawk, Sagat, Ken, O.Boxer, Claw
    3S - Q, Gouki, Ryu III
  • Pablo_the_MexPablo_the_Mex Blond Kanye Status Joined: Posts: 8,285
    Posted this in tech talk, but i figured you guys would get a kick out of it here.

    181063_10100187800178838_10705698_54925394_3947427_n.jpg
    168747_10100187800233728_10705698_54925395_896629_n.jpg
    167875_10100187800318558_10705698_54925397_7053619_n.jpg

    ST all day.

  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,568
    beautiful cab. i'm all jelly. but my personal preference for stick and button color theme is this

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTPPb9JTK_E6GWLpSP4d5Prc5o1dvBYTXxTD799zw3XZ-WMyoHY&t=1

    damn I need to get a cab soon
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
    Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
  • Pablo_the_MexPablo_the_Mex Blond Kanye Status Joined: Posts: 8,285
    I like that layout, but that's just what it came with.

  • CronopioCronopio ST Joined: Posts: 2,164
    That's beautiful.
  • WildestroyaWildestroya Joined: Posts: 126
    Would you like to see ST at EVO 2011 ?

    Hi everyone, i know a lot players in the ST/HDR community are upset to not see there game on the main event for the upcoming EVO 2011. This is why i came up with this idea of creating a poll to reinforce our position and show the EVO organisers that ST (in my case)/HDR are still popular enough to be runned on the biggest american tournament of the year.

    So guys, Would you like to see ST at EVO 2011 ?
    NOW IS THE TIME TO GIVE YOUR OPINION, PASS THE WORD !!!!

    http://shoryuken.com/f8/would-you-like-see-st-hdr-evo-2011-a-265316/
    :rock: ST is still the shit :rock:
  • GrogGrog discombobulatingly Joined: Posts: 3,617
    Hi everyone, i know a lot players in the ST/HDR community are upset to not see there game on the main event for the upcoming EVO 2011. This is why i came up with this idea of creating a poll to reinforce our position and show the EVO organisers that ST (in my case)/HDR are still popular enough to be runned on the biggest american tournament of the year.

    So guys, Would you like to see ST at EVO 2011 ?
    NOW IS THE TIME TO GIVE YOUR OPINION, PASS THE WORD !!!!

    http://shoryuken.com/f8/would-you-like-see-st-hdr-evo-2011-a-265316/

    I like how there's no option for both :rofl:

    Anyway wanted to point out that on the top of the layout it has links to guides, and out of the games they could have picked they put ST up there which is great in my books.
    no one cares syxx

    www.dontblowthis.com
  • WildestroyaWildestroya Joined: Posts: 126
    I like how there's no option for both :rofl:

    Anyway wanted to point out that on the top of the layout it has links to guides, and out of the games they could have picked they put ST up there which is great in my books.

    hahaha i know Grog, i hope its good news !:wink:
    :rock: ST is still the shit :rock:
  • djfrijolesdjfrijoles First ST player to ever moon a live stream baby ! Joined: Posts: 2,054
    I R Worried. Where is mah GGPO
    <garyangel> ceks,cani,robbiers,yito all mexico players dont know where kyouya
    <garyangel> (((((((((((((((
    <djfrijoles> kyouya is with his gf gary
    <Random.Jab.DP.Spamer> his gf is gary ?
  • GrogGrog discombobulatingly Joined: Posts: 3,617
    I haven't really been on in a while (well I'll hop on but no one I know/like is on), is it not loading now or has it been down for a while?
    no one cares syxx

    www.dontblowthis.com
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,568
    djfrijoles, I screen-capped the conversation you and a few others had regarding Mr. Xxxxxx and pm'ed him.

    your IP is now blocked from ggpo until further notice.










































    seriously though, I think ggpo is under DOS attack. Those chinese kof players are up to no good!
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
    Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
  • YouLaggyPOSYouLaggyPOS Joined: Posts: 64
    djfrijoles, I screen-capped the conversation you and a few others had regarding Mr. Xxxxxx and pm'ed him.

    your IP is now blocked from ggpo until further notice.


    seriously though, I think ggpo is under DOS attack. Those chinese kof players are up to no good!




    I think it's Damdai issuing the DOS attacks on GGPO, so that people are forced to play Supercade. We know their whole crew will use any means to bad mouth or cripple their competition (see ST vs. HDR).
  • geogeo Official Contrarian Joined: Posts: 1,291
    I think it's Damdai issuing the DOS attacks on GGPO, so that people are forced to play Supercade. We know their whole crew will use any means to bad mouth or cripple their competition (see ST vs. HDR).

    Dammit, I was going to make this joke. Something along the lines of: Damdai wants as many people as possible to get trojaned by his supercade rootkit. Etc.
    Just one example of ST fundamentalism on dontblowthis.com: "HDR is just another game with no relation to the Street Fighter II series" - riz0ne
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    I like how there's no option for both :rofl:

    Anyway wanted to point out that on the top of the layout it has links to guides, and out of the games they could have picked they put ST up there which is great in my books.
    I also like it that they put the ST guide there. I believe, however, part of the reason is the great work previous contributors have done. Again, I ask that people check it, help with advices and either edit it themselves or post their thoughts at the wiki thread here. While the ST wiki has a lot of stuff, it still misses many things. For one thing, O.Sagat's page is mostly empty, and by now only Ryu's and maybe O.Ken's pages have frame data.

    Edit: some amazing work like that of people obtaining stun info can be added to the wiki. It would be pretty nice to have stun damage and time added for all moves.
  • bitkidbitkid BiTKiD Joined: Posts: 685
    beautiful cab. i'm all jelly. but my personal preference for stick and button color theme is this

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTPPb9JTK_E6GWLpSP4d5Prc5o1dvBYTXxTD799zw3XZ-WMyoHY&t=1

    damn I need to get a cab soon

    You need to bring your ST board up to my place for a weekend and play on my cab yo!
    Dat shit's hoopz n yo-yos dawg!
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
  • Warrior's DreamsWarrior's Dreams 梅原 > Wong Joined: Posts: 1,292
    Is Jason Cole doing something with Street Fighter and media these days? IIRC, he mentioned something about a project he was working on, but I never bothered to check up on it.
    You shouldn't care about the division between ST and HDR, but rather the message you are sending to tournament organizers if you stop supporting the classic style of Street Fighter II.

    Mike Watson's Super Turbo Revival Sunday's Stream every Sunday! Look up "IEBattleGrounds" on twitch tv's website.
    Here is the latest stream:
    Your signature has been modifed, please read the rules.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Dammit found a few more things about SF2. The Rekkukyaku and Hooligan motion were already known, and are probably either on the character threads or in the wiki. For instance, dives being actually harder for ST.Claw in AE.
  • GanelonGanelon Joined: Posts: 1,101
    Nice, that link actually corrects my line of thinking. So the reason for strict wall dive inputs for arcade SSF2, ST o.claw, and HSF2 n.claw is that the game only registers negative edge K inputs (a la SF1).

    And that means console HSF2 n.claw's wall dive input was messed up further where it became "charge d,K,u" but without the negative edge constraints. Console HSF2 also has huge leniency on the 2nd input (K), allowing you to cancel out of an active slide (which is normally impossible even in recovery), suggesting that the 2nd input has plenty of built-in input leniency but the short 2-3 frame buffer before jumping after pressing up overrides that in the arcade version.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    This got me thinking, so I decided to investigate a bit. First of all, I have found something I would have never imagined: charge specials do not work if you input the button the next frame after having left the required charge direction. You will obtain a normal instead, in case of pressing a button, and nothing at all, but the correspondent direction action, such as jumping or walking towards the enemy. This seems true for all charge specials, for all versions of SF2. For instance, the command for a successful Sonic Boom would be ← (charge), <anything, for one frame>, → + P (press or release). If you input the → direction right after leaving ←, you must press or release a punch button the next frame or later, and you do not need to keep holding → anymore.

    As for Claw in S2, O.Claw in ST and ST.Claw in AE, the window is just unusually short. Go figure...
  • GanelonGanelon Joined: Posts: 1,101
    I don't believe the wall dive input window is any shorter than normal. I agree with what the link says (although it should probably emphasize the conclusion more): that it's an issue with only negative edge inputs being accepted. If you negative edge inputs, the leniency is the exact same as in ST.

    But people not knowing better would press K at or after pressing up. Claw jumps in about 3 frames so you pretty much have to press and release K in 2 frames to still get the wall dive that way, which is very tough (hence why I always used to press K before up and thought it was the same as the console HSF2 issue). But if you just hold K beforehand and let go after up, it feels just like it should be.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Well, the game does accept presses if you input it one frame after leaving the ↓ direction. But you are right that the game also accepts negative-edge for the remainder of the window, after presses stop working but on the other version (new for ST, S2 for AE).
  • papasipapasi N Ken is the truth Joined: Posts: 1,568
    can someone who know Japanese translate this?

    http://beastdaigo.jp/versus_chap5.shtml

    there are a bunch of other stuff here as well.
    http://beastdaigo.jp/versus.shtml

    it's dated 2001. so maybe it's already available somewhere else in English?
    eltrouble "I doubt that ST will be on the main stream ever again."
    OhNuki: Real men play ST!!
    James Chen: there is something special about playing ST on a cab. It just feels so goooooood.
    Super Turbo Hitbox & safe jump guide http://www.strevival.com/hitbox/
  • BoggleMindsBoggleMinds Joined: Posts: 335
    can someone who know Japanese translate this?

    http://beastdaigo.jp/versus_chap5.shtml

    there are a bunch of other stuff here as well.
    http://beastdaigo.jp/versus.shtml

    it's dated 2001. so maybe it's already available somewhere else in English?

    Yeah, that Umehon interview stuff is pretty old. I remember reading it a long time ago (like 2005), but with my limited Japanese skills a lot of stuff went over the top of my head. It's too long to translate though. From memory most of what he's talking about is just recollections of early SF2 days, things like:
    • Aniken had the biggest impact on him in the early days. Back in those days Aniken had gained the nickname "God of 50/50 mixups". Apparently Aniken was stronger during those "glory days" and since then his winningness has dropped slightly.
    • Daigo said that in terms of his own winningness, he was best during the Vampire Hunter era -- basically untouchable with a record 286 win streak at Akihabara. However in terms of overall strength, he felt that he was strongest now (which is what he has said repeatedly in more recent interviews in the SF4 era too).
    • In the early days of SF2/ST, his homegrounds of Akihabara had a tendency to play without projectiles (i.e. dislike of fireballs). Nuki has also mentioned in one of his commentaries that players in those days disliked spamming of fireballs.
    • One of the biggest impacts was from Yaya (N. Sagat). Daigo said that Yaya's fireball style was extremely frustrating to fight against. He would use Guile (who he mained before Ryu) and lose over and over to Yaya, who somehow always stopped fireballing just when Daigo would jump forward. Yaya's fireball style had a considerable impact on the way he plays Ryu.
    • Mentions legendary players like Rikiya (Zangief), who was extremely strong. Another legendary player was Camera-Ya (N.Ken), who according to Daigo had the best footsies of anyone he's ever played.
    • Discusses his way of analyzing opponents, explaining how he downloads them by observing how they react to fireballs, especially when he spams fireballs at them -- do they jump recklessly forward, or show restraint by not jumping, etc. He changes his style based on this kind of information gathering about how his opponent plays (which jives with what the community often sees as Daigo "sandbagging" during the first round of a match). If his opponent is the defensive/turtle type, he rushes down; if they are rushdown types then he lets them come to him, etc.
    Hopefully someone can find the time to translate the Umehon interviews as there's some good stuff in there.

    I remember nohoho also did a short translation of Daigo talking about his early days in the SF2WW/CE era, where he would constantly go to arcades like Vicky's and in the beginning couldn't even beat the CPU.
    "My first visit to an arcade changed my life. It was such a sensational experience. The fact I got to play with total strangers and connect with them through the game enthralled me." --Daigo Umehara

    www.youtube.com/Guoguodi
    GGPO Handle: Gizzle
  • otoriotori RTSD Joined: Posts: 6,183
    I remember nohoho also did a short translation of Daigo talking about his early days in the SF2WW/CE era, where he would constantly go to arcades like Vicky's and in the beginning couldn't even beat the CPU.

    Awesome, I can't even beat the CPU.
  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    Something I've always wondered about ST: why did they change "Flash" to "Maxout" and "Cannon Spike/Spiral Arrow" to "Thrust Kick/Cannon Drill"? I'm guessing Flash was changed cuz it's too close-sounding to Guile's Flash Kick, but IJDK.

    Also, why get rid of Zangief's instant dizzy? It would be nice if there was an international re-release of ST (with the Japanese voices and the American boss names). But that's never gonna happen.
  • FuddFudd High Level Parking Joined: Posts: 1,215
    Something I've always wondered about ST: why did they change "Flash" to "Maxout" and "Cannon Spike/Spiral Arrow" to "Thrust Kick/Cannon Drill"? I'm guessing Flash was changed cuz it's too close-sounding to Guile's Flash Kick, but IJDK.

    He's actually saying "Slash" like a Japanese would. "su-rash"
    The official name for DJ's fireball is "air slasher", hence "slash". (I used to think he was saying "Crash")
    "See, Super Turbo is a real man's game... But Street Fighter 4's like Chuck-E-Cheese, baby. Y'know what I'm saying? Where a kid can be a kid. I'm a grown-ass man, so clearly I'm not old enough to go in the ball pit." -Steve Harrison (Translation: dat Fo' make you soft)
    Super Turbo Revival
    "Everyone has a plan until they get magnetized." -SpiderDan
    PSN: Metonymous | Battle.net: Noun#1214 | Steam: Noun Proper | YT
  • blitzfublitzfu Cosmic Power Joined: Posts: 3,072
    He's actually saying "Slash" like a Japanese would. "su-rash"
    The official name for DJ's fireball is "air slasher", hence "slash". (I used to think he was saying "Crash")

    LOL Ah ok, thanks Fudd. "Slash" is so much cooler sounding than "Max Out" IMO. Same for "Spiral Arrow/Cannon Spike".
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    We had another HDR: Classic Mode tournament in Brazil. Deathgun took it again, earqueman took second - getting humiliated with a SF4 game as a prize - and Wal-Garants got third. I will post the brackets when I find them. I got 8th or the like, with little training, so I am not really disappointed.

    Edit: and damn that input delay on PS3. No way that is hard to notice.
  • Born2SPDBorn2SPD SPD Fanatic Joined: Posts: 276
    Yeah man, it was really fun, i placed 4th, earqueman's honda destroyed my shitty gief :tdown: dude i hate that match so muchhhhhhh
    Here is the recorded stream link, if anyone is interested: http://pt-br.twitch.tv/portalversus/b/294187863 (you have to click at that button at the right to show it) They didnt streamed all matches in the tournament, some good ones were not recorded but most of them are there. The first one in that stream is the one that i lose to deathgun, the guy who placed first, damn i almost won there. The last match was very funny though because while we were playing the chair of the commentator broke, out of nowhere, my opponent prolly lost his concentration at that point because he started to play very sloppy, at the end i almost won, only if i didnt wanted to finish with a walk up spd... Also, the perfect in the past round was just so beautiful...
    I keep reading stuff about ST revival, about bringing this game back to life...
    Its nice to see big tourneys happening and old top players giving this game a chance again...
    But what we really need is new players... And having a strong scene obviously helps...
    But in my opinion what will really bring new players to our community is good tutorials/character guides so they can learn easily and have something to start... So, actually good players, stop being selfish and write stuff about the chars you know! The wiki is lacking so much basic content... Stop being lazy and do something about it.
  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
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