Scrubquotes is back!

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  • atiradoratirador Fire and Ice Joined: Posts: 1,580
    atirador wrote: »
    Is LTG playing Tekken 7 now?

    He was, and rage quit whenever someone used a rage art.

    He got banned on Twitter for the 3rd time now though, but unfortunately that didn't keep him away. :bluu:

    I imagine Rage Arts are a total scrub-trigger, it causes good damage, you get one every round, you just need to press one button and it has armor.

    It's like SFIV Ultra Combos on steroids
  • Bomberman3000Bomberman3000 The Headshaker Joined: Posts: 2,100
    atirador wrote: »
    atirador wrote: »
    Is LTG playing Tekken 7 now?

    He was, and rage quit whenever someone used a rage art.

    He got banned on Twitter for the 3rd time now though, but unfortunately that didn't keep him away. :bluu:

    I imagine Rage Arts are a total scrub-trigger, it causes good damage, you get one every round, you just need to press one button and it has armor.

    It's like SFIV Ultra Combos on steroids

    ...
    Far from it. Ultras from SF4 (usually) have invincibility frames and you only have to be half-way down in health to get meter for one and can be combo'd into for decent damage.

    Rage Arts of T7 scale badly when used in combos (except in hilarious specific circumstances), and despite the armor the character takes FULL damage from the attack... that and only way to get full power out of a RA is to nearly be dead, which all it'll take is a jab to STILL finish the person off.
    Too many times in the lower ranks in T7 I punched someone in the face the moment they pulled an RA and they still died.

    Note that in SF4 high level play, Ultras still get used often enough, while high level T7 play you'll be lucky to see even a handful RA's thrown out in a small tournament setting. Rage Drives tend to get more mileage.
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  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 35,806 mod
    edited June 30
    atirador wrote: »
    atirador wrote: »
    Is LTG playing Tekken 7 now?

    He was, and rage quit whenever someone used a rage art.

    He got banned on Twitter for the 3rd time now though, but unfortunately that didn't keep him away. :bluu:

    I imagine Rage Arts are a total scrub-trigger, it causes good damage, you get one every round, you just need to press one button and it has armor.

    It's like SFIV Ultra Combos on steroids

    ...
    Far from it. Ultras from SF4 (usually) have invincibility frames and you only have to be half-way down in health to get meter for one and can be combo'd into for decent damage.

    Rage Arts of T7 scale badly when used in combos (except in hilarious specific circumstances), and despite the armor the character takes FULL damage from the attack... that and only way to get full power out of a RA is to nearly be dead, which all it'll take is a jab to STILL finish the person off.
    Too many times in the lower ranks in T7 I punched someone in the face the moment they pulled an RA and they still died.

    Note that in SF4 high level play, Ultras still get used often enough, while high level T7 play you'll be lucky to see even a handful RA's thrown out in a small tournament setting. Rage Drives tend to get more mileage.

    Average scrub doesn't know (or care) about that. They just see that it takes two buttons, comes out instantly, has armor, and kills them when they press too much buttons. I mean, DOA5's Power Blow/Power Launcher is more analogous to SFIV Ultras since they become available at half health, and will get used in high level play, but you don't see as much scrub complaints since they require being used in a combo (even if those combos lead to 50-70%, inescpable damage).
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
    -PersiaXO
  • Raging_ZoroarkRaging_Zoroark Disgraceful! Joined: Posts: 1,383
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  • Bomberman3000Bomberman3000 The Headshaker Joined: Posts: 2,100
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    A decent post... marred by a single paragraph.
    "What Strength!!
    But Don't forget,
    There are many guys like you, all over the world!!!"

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  • Raging_ZoroarkRaging_Zoroark Disgraceful! Joined: Posts: 1,383
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    A decent post... marred by a single paragraph.

    Those are the worst IMO. If the guy just went "BROKEN CHARACTERS, SPAM, NO HONOR, agyiagusygasuysdguaysgd!" people would just think that he's a whiny child and pay no attention to what he says. But dropping scrubquotes amont a fairly reasonable post may make new players in actually believing in everything he just said.
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  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 35,806 mod
    edited July 3
    d3v wrote: »
    Fuck, of all the characters Zero is back in the base roster? Great, 6 more years of Zero May Cry fuckbois popping off because they did a 99 hit loop with 2 special moves. I guess I can give the story demo a shot, but the hype is dying pretty fast.
    If you gonna hate on a game in development, at least make sure you don't out yourself as a scrub in the process.

    What, you gonna run off to another part of SRK like I won't find you? Fuck outta here man; Zero combos were some of the most cancer things in 3. Not because they were meter-positive ToDs, they were just boring as hell to watch and went on for 3 billion years because of damage scaling. If Lightning Loops took any longer, you'd see people skip through them in Youtube videos like the Alpha 3 infinites.

    Still a scrubquote. Judging something as "boring" is still scrubby.
    A common call of the scrub is to cry that the kind of play in which one tries to win at all costs is “boring” or “not fun.”
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
    -PersiaXO
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 35,806 mod
    d3v wrote: »
    d3v wrote: »
    Fuck, of all the characters Zero is back in the base roster? Great, 6 more years of Zero May Cry fuckbois popping off because they did a 99 hit loop with 2 special moves. I guess I can give the story demo a shot, but the hype is dying pretty fast.
    If you gonna hate on a game in development, at least make sure you don't out yourself as a scrub in the process.

    What, you gonna run off to another part of SRK like I won't find you? Fuck outta here man; Zero combos were some of the most cancer things in 3. Not because they were meter-positive ToDs, they were just boring as hell to watch and went on for 3 billion years because of damage scaling. If Lightning Loops took any longer, you'd see people skip through them in Youtube videos like the Alpha 3 infinites.

    Still a scrubquote. Judging something as "boring" is still scrubby.
    A common call of the scrub is to cry that the kind of play in which one tries to win at all costs is “boring” or “not fun.”

    Zero isn't boring because he's top tier, Lightning Loops are just the manifestation of everything wrong with MvC3's combo system: overly generous hitstun and too many ways to outright ignore combo limitations.

    If finding anything ever in a fighting game boring is scrubby, then I don't really know what to say. Judging by your posting in this thread, any criticism of a fighting game is scrubquotes. Maybe we're just running off different definitions here, but I've always seen "scrub" used to refer to people that make up extra rules and shit about the game to justify their hatred for a mechanic, oftentimes in response to a loss.

    If I said "ZMC should be banned because the combos are too long", THAT would be a scrub quote. If I said "ZMC wins aren't real wins", THAT would be a scrubquote. A key element of a scrubquote is that there is some magical way the game "should" be played, and anyone who doesn't is cheating/spamming.

    Because isn't that just a roundabout way of saying that those things shouldn't be in UMvC3? Or more precisely, based on the original quote, it feels like a roundabout way of saying that something shouldn't be in just because it's boring and. At least, that's how it comes across to me.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
    -PersiaXO
  • HawkingbirdHawkingbird I am thou...thou art I Joined: Posts: 25,398
    I'm not seeing anything wrong with that quote.
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  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 35,806 mod
    "Boring" was something singled out in Playing to Win, and for a reason. Calling something "boring" is something scrubs would say against a certain method, or tactic that can be used to win. And yes, "boring" tactics are something that's close to my heart. So forgive me if I assume that anyone calling any tech "boring" is doing so as a scrub. Or for thinking that making design decisions on preventing "boring" tactics is simply an extension of scrub mentality, or worse, empowering scrubs who think that "boring" is a legit criticism of any tactics/tech.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
    -PersiaXO
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 35,806 mod
    Hecatom wrote: »
    d3v wrote: »
    reaching

    And why i am not surprised that once more you go by whatever a fgc celebrity said instead of thinking by yourself.
    For once i would like you to think rationaly instead of parroting whatever someone said some time ago and take it for gospel, all while making a clown of yourself.

    So citing a resource or statement from the closest thing we have to an academic treatise on the subject matter to back me up, is somehow "reaching".

    Honestly, what the fuck does being "exciting" have to do with "winning"? Nothing at all.

    History is full of examples of people winning regardless if they were "boring", and I'm not just talking about fighting games either. Anytime anyone brings up the "boring" argument, it's usually to downplay whoever won in a manner that implies that they weren't deserving of the victory - "Mayweather shouldn't be able to run away and win," or "Senna shouldn't have been able to run Prost off on turn 1 of lap 1 and win the championship on points," etc. - which is, to me, a pretty scrubby line of thought.

    Moreover, this line of thought gets very dangerous when it starts making its way into games. Zoning weakened with universal anti-fireball/poke tools or even more ridiculous ideas (lets make fireballs deal less damage the farther out they are), hit boxes made smaller/stubbier so that age old SF strategy of making your opponent keep running into safe pokes doesn't work anymore, all in the name of discouraging "boring" play.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
    -PersiaXO
  • HecatomHecatom Aka Black Gorilla (・Д・)ノ Joined: Posts: 22,627
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  • .Guy..Guy. STUPID SEXY ROCKET RACCOON! Joined: Posts: 1,973
    edited July 4
    I dunno, that quote sounded pretty scrubby to me, but not because he was talking about how unhype something was. ...Even though most people I hear saying something is boring because of combos IS from people who aren't relatively good at fighting games. I can accept they're boring because of repetitiveness, but at least Marvel 3 isn't J-Stars Victory Vs. (Good god I don't know how anyone played that game without vomiting from cutscene overdose.)

    Most people can't even consistently do lightning loops when they need to. Some of the best Zeros drop that shit once in a while.



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  • MuttonmanMuttonman Joined: Posts: 2,786
    "I think top tier character X is boring so I don't play them" would be a scrub quote under that definition, so it's obvious bullshit. Being scrubby is about holding your opponent to an out of game standard, not commentating on the excitement factor. Unless of course, you want to label doing anything but playing the toppest of tiers scrubby behavior.
  • po pimpuspo pimpus Let's Hit the Climax! Joined: Posts: 24,473
    edited July 4
    @d3v in here getting Guilty Gear Destroyed...

    Perhaps people are finally getting fed up with the nonsense you constantly spew to defend Capcpom's shitty design decisions from criticism.

    And on July 4th as well... May freedom ring across all the FGC as the evil empire finally crumbles.
    "Capcom should listen to their fans... Mega Man is a cool character." -2048 President Elect Kevin at Age 10
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 35,806 mod
    d3v wrote: »
    Honestly, what the fuck does being "exciting" have to do with "winning"? Nothing at all.

    It's almost like people play games because they enjoy them first and foremost. Some people think Chess, baseball, or LoL are boring. It's not a statement on balance or fairness, the enjoyment factor of anything is subjective.

    Winning is fun.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
    -PersiaXO
  • TetsuroTetsuro Joined: Posts: 692
    edited July 5
    d3v wrote: »
    So citing a resource or statement from the closest thing we have to an academic treatise on the subject matter to back me up, is somehow "reaching".

    I don't have a dog in this fight, so I don't really care about the argument, but did you just insinuate that David Sirlin is an academic? That should be a scrub quote.
  • just5moreminutesjust5moreminutes Remember me now, Yipes? Joined: Posts: 7,389
    d3v wrote: »
    d3v wrote: »
    Honestly, what the fuck does being "exciting" have to do with "winning"? Nothing at all.

    It's almost like people play games because they enjoy them first and foremost. Some people think Chess, baseball, or LoL are boring. It's not a statement on balance or fairness, the enjoyment factor of anything is subjective.

    Winning is fun.

    And against evenly matched opponents, it's basically a coin toss as to who's better that day, so why bother when you'll ideally only have fun 50% of the time? Your Daigos, Justin Wongs, and Infiltrations don't come to be because they hinged the value of their time upon wins and losses, but because they enjoy the game enough to put in the work where others won't. That's why, in games not called MvC2, people can take tournaments with a lower tier character. No amount of strategy can overcome giving a shit.
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 35,806 mod
    Tetsuro wrote: »
    d3v wrote: »
    So citing a resource or statement from the closest thing we have to an academic treatise on the subject matter to back me up, is somehow "reaching".

    I don't have a dog in this fight, so I don't really care about the argument, but did you just insinuate that David Sirlin is an academic? That should be a scrub quote.

    Because Playing to Win was the first time the modern day definition of "scrub" was written down. The only other thing that comes close is Seth's "On Cheapness" as part of Domination 101.
    d3v wrote: »
    d3v wrote: »
    Honestly, what the fuck does being "exciting" have to do with "winning"? Nothing at all.

    It's almost like people play games because they enjoy them first and foremost. Some people think Chess, baseball, or LoL are boring. It's not a statement on balance or fairness, the enjoyment factor of anything is subjective.

    Winning is fun.

    And against evenly matched opponents, it's basically a coin toss as to who's better that day, so why bother when you'll ideally only have fun 50% of the time? Your Daigos, Justin Wongs, and Infiltrations don't come to be because they hinged the value of their time upon wins and losses, but because they enjoy the game enough to put in the work where others won't. That's why, in games not called MvC2, people can take tournaments with a lower tier character. No amount of strategy can overcome giving a shit.

    Okay, maybe I oversimplified it with that statement. What I mean is that, for some people, finding that level of oppressive tech, running top tiers and breaking the game is fun. There is enjoyment to be gained, not just from winning against your opponents, but from doing so by finding some tech that allows for your continued dominance.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
    -PersiaXO
  • crotchpunchacrotchpuncha Joined: Posts: 20,817
    edited July 5
    Ya'll ruining this thread. Shut the fuck up and get back to posting scrub quotes.
    It's not the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
  • atiradoratirador Fire and Ice Joined: Posts: 1,580
    d3v wrote: »
    d3v wrote: »
    Honestly, what the fuck does being "exciting" have to do with "winning"? Nothing at all.

    It's almost like people play games because they enjoy them first and foremost. Some people think Chess, baseball, or LoL are boring. It's not a statement on balance or fairness, the enjoyment factor of anything is subjective.

    Winning is fun.

    Sometimes is not

    Sometimes just PLAYING a good game is more fun than winning in a bad one

    There's all sorts of bad FGs from the 90s that you can win by just doing the same OP move over and over, and it's not fun winning by doing that, either against the CPU or a human opponent. That's why those games were long forgotten.

    Smash is boring to me, I don't care how balanced the game is or how much skill it takes do play it, it's boring and I'm never buying it or watching on stream.

    That's my personal opinion, of course, but let's say a good part of your audience thinks that about your game, it's just not a good idea to keep making a boring game if people aren't interested in watching it or buying it, no matter how good it is on the competitive aspect.
    (just hypothetically, I know a lot of people love Smash)
  • DevilJin 01DevilJin 01 PRAISED BEEF Joined: Posts: 54,706 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    This thread makes everyone look scrubby.

    Complaining about lightning loops is so 2012. Sit down and watch NetFlux.

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  • LordWilliam1234LordWilliam1234 Too Many Waifus Joined: Posts: 20,902
    Arms has come down with a scrubquotes plague.

    (Warning, this one links a Kotaku article)

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  • DeathologyDeathology Joined: Posts: 496
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 35,806 mod
    edited July 7
  • just5moreminutesjust5moreminutes Remember me now, Yipes? Joined: Posts: 7,389
    Accepting (of people who aren't better than me)
  • SaandroSaandro Joined: Posts: 88
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    Well, he does have a point, even if the wording is terrible. Sol, Ky and Elphelt all have very gooid normals, easy combos, good mobility and are very straightforward and easy to play. Somehow they all ended up in A tier aswell. A new player picking Sol or Ky will win 8/10 games against another new player who picked Kum or Zato. And the guy was responding to a new player I think.
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 35,806 mod
    Saandro wrote: »
    unknown.png

    Well, he does have a point, even if the wording is terrible. Sol, Ky and Elphelt all have very gooid normals, easy combos, good mobility and are very straightforward and easy to play. Somehow they all ended up in A tier aswell. A new player picking Sol or Ky will win 8/10 games against another new player who picked Kum or Zato. And the guy was responding to a new player I think.

    Still a scrubquote because he's complaining about people picking good/higher tier characters because they want better chances at winning.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
    -PersiaXO
  • Kalyx triaDKalyx triaD Serious Business Joined: Posts: 2,808
    Lil late to this party but I wanna add my 4 cents:

    The difference for me between a Scrubquote and an otherwise legit grievance is a scrub would try to discredit a game, game mechanic, or ruleset from a position of ignorance or covering for his short comings; while a reasonable complaint comes from a place of understanding how the game works and explaining why it's not his cup of tea or how the game may possibly be undermining its own general design.

    I have a lot of issues with Marvel 3, but my re-purchase a few months ago shows that I can look past some questionable ("imo") design choices. But what really gets me, and what had me retire the game for four years, was a lack of a burst mechanic. I argued years ago that burst should have been added in Ultimate as an alternate XF activation. I personally saw no reason to not add this. And its inclusion in the completely useless H&H mode was a slap in my face that made me drop the game. Yes, Marvel is zany. Yes, you will get eaten up by certain combos. Yes, it's kinda supposed to be this way (an argument I find banal but w/e). I still otherwise love the game as a product and concept. But not having burst, a burst with an obvious cost and utility, was something I personally found baffling.

    Now: Am I being scrubby here? Am I covering for my losses? What if I well understand that I can be bursted from a win? Would I be Scrubquoted or would that start an actual convo?

    These are things I think we can all think about when roasting scrubs. And for the most part, it's pretty easy to do so. You don't get too many cases where it's nuanced to this point. But again, there's no harm in being slightly more surgical before putting somebody on blast.
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  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 35,806 mod
    edited July 11
  • KomatikKomatik Card demon Joined: Posts: 2,662
    The extra funny thing is that SF4 at least accepts 616 as a shoryuken. Any forward, any down, any forward. You could be a radical person and do 939 I guess.
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  • atiradoratirador Fire and Ice Joined: Posts: 1,580
    IglooBob wrote: »
    Complaining about a game is not scrubby. Complaining about how a player plays the game is.

    Most fighting games have a lot of stupid shit in them. Pointing that out is not scrubby. Continuing to play the game then crying that your opponent used the stupid shit against you is scrubby. Whenever you play a game competitively you enter an unwritten contract where everything is fair game and you don't get to cry about it. Someone landed one hit on you into an infinite? Better luck next time stupid. Don't get hit. But when discussing the game itself, it is entirely reasonable to say one hit to death is really dumb and maybe the game isn't worth playing.

    Except when playing Smash... there's all kinds of arbitrary rules for playing that game competitively
  • KomatikKomatik Card demon Joined: Posts: 2,662
    atirador wrote: »
    IglooBob wrote: »
    Complaining about a game is not scrubby. Complaining about how a player plays the game is.

    Most fighting games have a lot of stupid shit in them. Pointing that out is not scrubby. Continuing to play the game then crying that your opponent used the stupid shit against you is scrubby. Whenever you play a game competitively you enter an unwritten contract where everything is fair game and you don't get to cry about it. Someone landed one hit on you into an infinite? Better luck next time stupid. Don't get hit. But when discussing the game itself, it is entirely reasonable to say one hit to death is really dumb and maybe the game isn't worth playing.

    Except when playing Smash... there's all kinds of arbitrary rules for playing that game competitively

    Depends a lot on the version being played - I mean unless you mean stuff people set in menus which are a nonissue or rules for map selection which is what people do in every competitive game in which maps matter, in which case lol.

    Brawl genuinely does have some stupid stuff that affects normal ingame decisionmaking, ie. they have a ledge grab limit because otherwise some characters (primarily Metaknight and a couple others) would just get a lead and stall near unchallenged which definitely is a bad rule. But apart from that in-game rules as far as I can see just ban game-ending glitches that freeze people or give characters the ability to stall infinitely in unreachable spaces and have to be performed very intentionally, ie. nothing that affects normal gameplay unlike the ledge grab limit.
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  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 35,806 mod
    edited July 12
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 35,806 mod
    Not fighting games, but still fun to laugh at.
    You can't ask for well-thought-out changes off day 1, week 1, or mostly even month 1 play...and that's when the game is out and everyone's in the lab.
    -Mike_Z

    If there's anything we do best, it's breaking games and then making everyone suffer with all the cheapness.
    -PersiaXO
  • ArtVandelayArtVandelay Architect Joined: Posts: 5,217
    Trying to 100% Crash 1 at the moment with my gf, and hell that game is really difficult if you're doing the no death runs and time trials.
    It's not that bad though. On the level of SMB3, Mega Man and the likes but nowhere near those retarded platformers like I Wanna Be The Boshy or shit like that.
    It's rewarding enough to warrant the frustration, and personally I just hate platformers that I blaze through.

    Most disappointing Christmas gift as a kid was Aladdin on the SNES. That game was a beautifully designed game and really fun, but I beat it in 2 or 3 hours on the same evening I fucking got it.
    That was a real bummer as a poverty child that gets 2 games a year.
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  • Raging_ZoroarkRaging_Zoroark Disgraceful! Joined: Posts: 1,383
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  • Kalyx triaDKalyx triaD Serious Business Joined: Posts: 2,808
    "Pace urself" wtf?
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  • Bomberman3000Bomberman3000 The Headshaker Joined: Posts: 2,100
    "Pace urself" wtf?

    He means "slow down so I can win next time!"
    "What Strength!!
    But Don't forget,
    There are many guys like you, all over the world!!!"

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