KoF XIII General Discussion: Part II

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  • LabanLaban KOF98 Player Joined: Posts: 2,558
    Yes, frame data is last priority due to the fact that the actual numbers will be volatile when the console release is out, as the values would need to be retested and reaffirmed. I'd say frame data is not that necessarily in the first place as it doesn't account for hitboxes, activation ranges, push back on hit or on block, and many other factors that go on in a match. I'd say going by feel is more important than actual frame data. Put those two reasons together, frame data is low on priority. That is that we won't omit frame data, it's just covering moves, strategies, and damage outputs (combos) should take precedence in learning the game.
  • pablofsipablofsi Joined: Posts: 124
    Now that SNK has spoken more about XIII, I can "cover their back" for what they didn't mention in their answers. KOF XIII will NOT have the same netcode XII had, and it WILL incorporate rollback technologies, where does the code come from, is still a mistery which I can't clear up yet...
  • LabanLaban KOF98 Player Joined: Posts: 2,558
    Mr.Damdai
  • leninlenin Joined: Posts: 58
    i just hope none of the characters are dlc ..................snk can charge me for any thing as dlc but just please don't make it characters
  • kimkim #Decimo# Joined: Posts: 13
    I'm sure the next characters to reveal will be classic Iori with Eiji so they can form the 95' team
    gallarycard133.png
  • kimkim #Decimo# Joined: Posts: 13
    1309360036x2055023212.jpg
    Cool New stage
    I'm not sure but it seems to be a some kind of ruins on a forest
    gallarycard133.png
  • DeathReaper47DeathReaper47 Katana-rama! Joined: Posts: 1,995
    KOF XIII will NOT have the same netcode XII had, and it WILL incorporate rollback technologies

    Please don't be a lie
    I probably would've Matt Murdock roundhoused her ass using the vibration from her ignant ass voice to locate her. - Stuck being Stuck
  • Private EyeballPrivate Eyeball Not a frog Joined: Posts: 1,447
    I've been wanting to get into KoF, but KoF13 is a few months away. What'd be the best option to get into and learn the basics of KoF? GGPO? KoF12? Something else? I don't live in an area with much of a community, so I can't just find a friend and learn from them, sadly.
    Something something Hulkamania run something on something.
  • pablofsipablofsi Joined: Posts: 124
    Offline practice in 98, or 2002, then a lil of ggpo of either one. After that jump to KOF XIII.
  • Dr. GrammarDr. Grammar Fighting Game Scientist Joined: Posts: 1,726
    I've been wanting to get into KoF, but KoF13 is a few months away. What'd be the best option to get into and learn the basics of KoF? GGPO? KoF12? Something else? I don't live in an area with much of a community, so I can't just find a friend and learn from them, sadly.
    Play KOF 98 or 2002 on GGPO. You can also go to #SNKPlaymore on EFnet (there is a sticky topic about it here) to talk about KOF or find people to play with.
    #SFxT @ Rizon - It's better than SRK
  • TheAbsolutionTheAbsolution Joined: Posts: 737
    Is it just me or is there really an increase of Maxima players more recently?
  • affinityaffinity Joined: Posts: 2,733
    I'm sure the next characters to reveal will be classic Iori with Eiji so they can form the 95' team
    Iori already has his own team with Mature and Vice.
    Elisabeth and Mature were added in KOF12 without needing to form a default team for them. Same for all the extra characters added to the home version of KOF11.

    If Billy gets his own team, it would make more sense to add Blue Mary and Yamazaki in that case.
  • LabanLaban KOF98 Player Joined: Posts: 2,558
    Depends on what you mean by "more recently." After the 1.1 patch, he had a general increase of players, and people that do get recorded to be put on video also have been picking him up. Before the 1.1 patch, he was already considered high tier by Japanese players as I recall; but I found it a bit odd that he wasn't getting much representation in match videos. So now the projected numbers seem normalized. He's a good solid character as he has good normals, great damage, and finally has better jump-in attacks other than Maxima in XI. It helps that his df.C attack now hits on all crouching opponents and he could do low-hitting confims such as cr.B, cr.A xx df.C xx qcb+A. The limitation is that he has to be deep on smaller characters such as Yuri or Chin or the df.C will whiff. To circumvent this, Maxima could simply do cr.B, cr.A xx hcb+B (command throw) and score a wall carry just from that single grab. Not only does Maxima wall carry, but he could either confirm into a damaging super cancel or drive cancel combo, or simply just have a good okizeme game. In previous games, Maxima's hcf command throw didn't give him good recovery let alone okizeme, and the hcb command throw was a running command throw with bad start up and application. Now, Maxima could be effectively be played as a grappling character on par with the others that are in the game and is supplemented with better guard points. He's not necessarily a high execution character, but he has the great damage to get the job done.
    Iori already has his own team with Mature and Vice.
    Elisabeth and Mature were added in KOF12 without needing to form a default team for them. Same for all the extra characters added to the home version of KOF11.

    If Billy gets his own team, it would make more sense to add Blue Mary and Yamazaki in that case.
    I'm thinking SNKP would want XIII to stand out compared to 98umfe and 02um. Actually, an Oswald/Billy Kane/Yamazaki team could be possible due to the producer really wanting Yamazaki and the fact that Oswald is a hired hitman.

    If SNKP just keeps putting in the old characters that were present in the other sagas, it wouldn't feel like the Ash saga anymore. Just a watered down Nests saga Unlimited Match. They already have 02um.
  • affinityaffinity Joined: Posts: 2,733
    What would be even better than all that would be adding Botan, Shroom, and Rimelo as playables.

    Those from the Past deserves more presence and involvement in the tournament, not just Saiki.

    http://the-magicbox.com/1106/game110629a.shtml

    maybe they might be hinted as 3 new playable characters? (that would be awesome, especially since they never been playable before and make this saga stand out even more! (remember all those NESTS characters playable in KOF2001????????? It made the closing of the NESTS saga even more epic) !!!!!!!

    But they should wear their Those from the Past cloaks during battle, they would look so fearsome and cool with their cloaks in motion that adapts to their movements and fighting styles. They would flow nicely with these graphics. )
  • LabanLaban KOF98 Player Joined: Posts: 2,558
    Yeah, it would be analogous to not only 01's Nests Team but to 97's New Faces Team. The Ash saga lacks those villain/antagonistic characters.
  • affinityaffinity Joined: Posts: 2,733
    Yeah, it would be analogous to not only 01's Nests Team but to 97's New Faces Team. The Ash saga lacks those villain/antagonistic characters.

    yes well it's due to their lack of playability Ash Saga does in fact have a lot of antagonists, but they have all been treated behind the scenes instead of actual contestants. Thus far, the only members that did anything significant during the tournament were Mukai (2003 final boss), Shion (KOFXI boss), Magaki (KOFXI final boss) and Saiki (KOFXIII final boss).
    Botan was introduced since 2003, Shroom and Rimelo revealed themselves in KOFXI, but none of those 3 did anything besides manipulate Rose and steal Heidern's eyepatch (lmao!)

    there rest just stood around like lawn ornaments. Their only big scene was teleporting into the stadium at the sametime. Surely at least 3 of them would be added as fighters and given a bigger role.
  • LabanLaban KOF98 Player Joined: Posts: 2,558
    Yeah that's what I mean. The lack of actually playable villains is kinda ugh. I'm currently loving how the current cast of XIII plays at least. So hopefully we'll see some of the interesting changes to normals happen to Billy and whoever may appear in the game. Maybe if they actually put in a Those from The Past team, that'd those characters will be pretty unique and hopefully fun to learn.
  • kimkim #Decimo# Joined: Posts: 13
    There you go guys there is a full scan of the lastest news
    snk_primeros_detalles_kof13consolas_001.jpg
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  • kimkim #Decimo# Joined: Posts: 13
    Here are some new kof Xlll screens for the console version
    http://www.andriasang.com/e/galleries/2011/07/01/kofxiii_screens/
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  • LabanLaban KOF98 Player Joined: Posts: 2,558
    Good stuff, thanks for the link. I really dig the new stages and whatever may be Billy's Neomax.
  • affinityaffinity Joined: Posts: 2,733
    http://gamenyusu.com/component/content/article/8-all-news/1016-king-of-fighter-13-screenshots-for-ps3xbox-360.html

    One of them looks like a gorgeous Pao Pao Cafe remake (the cafe first appeared in Fatal Fury 1)!

    There is an industrial stage, (is that Lawrence Blood next to Krauser, who's behind them? Hey that girl on the left looks like Billy's sister, Lilly Kane!)

    and of course that mysterious ruins stage seen earlier.

    "http://twitter.com/matsushita_8bit/status/86699408049184768
    Oh, so the new backgrounds have been announced! The concept behind them are "Easy to the eye, undisturbing to the gameplay (give the spectators regular physiques)", "Release previous KOF backgrounds and new backgrounds in beautiful HD quality". They're the effort of hard work by the background's staff!"

    "http://twitter.com/matsushita_8bit/status/86701450096422912
    So that's the concept behind having the previous backgrounds, but they might've taken my request when I said "I'd love to see the old KOF backgrounds in HD quality". The old stages in HD will really make your heart pound, they look like High-res NeoGeo!"

    ""We released new info on the console version of KOFXIII; the release date, price, and that Billy will be added in as a new character. Today was just a part of the unveiling, more details weill be disclosed later. Maybe it's about time we had the development staff come out."

    "There will be a downloadable character as a pre-order bonus. What kind of character could it be...."

    It better be Momoko! But knowing SNKP, it's probably Iori98. >.> There's gotta be more characters being added!
  • KYO84KYO84 Riddle Solver Joined: Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I've never played the arcade version of XIII but are the inputs supposed to be strict? I'm playing the "PC" version and the game is really unforgiving with QCF/QCB inputs.
    "Better that we die on our feet than live on our knees!" Magneto
  • pablofsipablofsi Joined: Posts: 124
    No they shouldn't. Press N when it asks you "4 way joystick".
  • KYO84KYO84 Riddle Solver Joined: Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I've been using Xpadder because for whatever reason it's not detecting my stick in the type x config. I get stuck on the "press a button for p1 joystick up" part, nothing I do on the keyboard or stick is detected.
    "Better that we die on our feet than live on our knees!" Magneto
  • Return of ShikiReturn of Shiki Your favorite game sucks Joined: Posts: 4,410
    Love the new stages. I wish they would replace all of Nona's old ugly-ass stages.

    Not too thrilled to hear about DLC characters, though.
    If you listen to fools, the mob rules...
  • affinityaffinity Joined: Posts: 2,733
    DLC characters is a good thing, it helps pay back SNKP for their extra hard work, and players get what they pay for. SNKP already went above and beyond the amount of money they invested in the sprites and building new sprites for the home version. You don't see any other company delivering as much heart and detail to the sprites and backgrounds that require tons more time and work than any other fighting game.

    And as far as we know, only one of the characters is DLC (and they are currently a secret), which is the pre-order bonus. It's just as possible the rest of the characters being added are already on the disk.

    SNKP isn't the first to use DLC as pre-order incentives and it won't be the last. The DLC market has proven DLC always sells, and can sell big. :)
  • LabanLaban KOF98 Player Joined: Posts: 2,558
    Yeah I don't particularly care that much. I mean, I bought all of the Hot Shots Golf: Out of Bounds DLC. Don't mind paying a few for extra characters that get released over a period of time. It's not like there will a new character a day for 30 days at 10 USD each. If there is yo ughhhhhhhhhhhhhh
  • DeathReaper47DeathReaper47 Katana-rama! Joined: Posts: 1,995
    I'm seeing that yo ughhhhhhh thing all over the place, still don't know where it originated from.
    I probably would've Matt Murdock roundhoused her ass using the vibration from her ignant ass voice to locate her. - Stuck being Stuck
  • Cymru KakashiCymru Kakashi Joined: Posts: 11
    Does anyone know if iori has his flames?
  • AmedoS310AmedoS310 Joined: Posts: 120
    *Copy/Paste*

    Iori's command grab reminds me of Orochi Yashiro's grab.
    If hcb+A/C, dp+C, j. D gets the opponent to the corner from, like, the players starting prositions, the opponent will not fully land at the corner. There will be enough space for Iori to jump inside between the opponent and corner. I think this can be very useful for mind games and resets.
    Same roles, different actors.
  • Hatred EdgeHatred Edge I am Hatred. I am the Night. Joined: Posts: 16,362
    Does anyone know if iori has his flames?
    Is this guy serious? KOF XIII has been out in arcades for so long. Countless videos have been uploaded and this guy asks something like that?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jS1CjivdZHQ
    Take a look.
    Has anyone thanked you today for not setting the whole world on fire?

    They should. I won't. I advocate setting the world on fire. But morons who actually like it, benefit from society, would do well to thank you and men like you for not visiting hell upon them.

    "You don't know what it's like to hate. To have your entire life become nothing more than an expression of hate. Nothing else matters. Nothing else can compare. Or taste as sweet."
  • affinityaffinity Joined: Posts: 2,733
    Maybe they were in hibernation since KOFXII. Or maybe they are asking if the console version will include his flames version.
  • LabanLaban KOF98 Player Joined: Posts: 2,558
    *Copy/Paste*

    Iori's command grab reminds me of Orochi Yashiro's grab.
    If hcb+A/C, dp+C, j. D gets the opponent to the corner from, like, the players starting prositions, the opponent will not fully land at the corner. There will be enough space for Iori to jump inside between the opponent and corner. I think this can be very useful for mind games and resets.

    You have the right idea. Yes. After a hit reset, Iori can run under the opponent and land on the other side and perform a meaty as the opponent lands on the ground. Iori can ambiguously set up his cross under by actually delaying the run or starting it early. So, Iori could land on either side. What's scary is that Iori has enough time to run under then do his j.4B over the opponent as a cross up. Iori could do a j.C safe-hop on an opponent from the front after a hit reset. Iori could mix up that with a hyper hop over with a j.4B as the opponent lands. Iori could mix up tick, command throws any time during that progression. When the opponent alternate guards, Iori can rush easily with run forward st.B, cl.B, and cr.B pressure to break it; Iori doesn't have a f.B overhead to mess him up on that walk-forward pressure. Iori can combo a cl.B into command throw so Iori could do a high or low mix up that combos back into the mix up. What's even dirtier is that Iori could cross up more easily with j.C as well so that makes cross-ups and non-cross-ups more ambiguous. In any hitconfirm combo longer than a simple cl.B xx command throw, Iori can do a knockdown with qcb+A and have the frame advantage to set up the next mix up after knockdown, unlike with ending with dp+P. Essentially, Iori is now O. Yashiro with a scarier mix up game and better cr.Bs to break alternate guards. So, tick throws are more viable and more scary.

    Not so sure about dp+C > j.D. That'll need some testing to see if a run under works. I'm feeling that it might not garner enough time, but let's see.
  • phoenixnlphoenixnl Joined: Posts: 642
    Phoenix did the Frame Data. Attribute the rest of the work to the good men at #SNKPlaymore. You should be able to check the history on the page. It's a community effort.

    Also did the combo stuff/move list!

    Anyway, as for the framedata, it's been mentioned, we won't be working on it until the other stuff is done, it was more of a proof of concept thing (and a very time consuming one at that).

    I feel that Frame Data in KOF can be pretty deceptive, in general there are a lot more ways to dodge moves, especially those that give massive frame advantage in KOF, making frametraps a lot less about the amount of frames in between two attacks, but rather if your opponent guesses right what next move is coming up as to avoid it.

    This doesn't mean KOF framedata is irrelevant, but it's a bit more dependant on the hitbox data, and it's difficult to read if you come from an SF mindset, where there are a lot more beefier moves with more frame advantage and such.
  • 5_Knuckles5_Knuckles Joined: Posts: 73
    How many different types of jumps are in kof xiii? Is it just like 98? I'm trying to learn about the system, I havent played much kof.
  • LabanLaban KOF98 Player Joined: Posts: 2,558
    How many different types of jumps are in kof xiii? Is it just like 98? I'm trying to learn about the system, I havent played much kof.
    Yes, it's just like 98. In 98, though, doing a Full Backwards Jump and a Full Neutral Jump allowed you to Air Block. This isn't the case in XIII. The amount of the kinds of jumps in the game are the same though.
  • YinYin fun fun fun Joined: Posts: 3,396
    Is there any forum thread, article or video that explains the system of 13?
    Like about EX moves, max mode, how the combo system works, the guard roll thing and all that.
    slay this unaligned ant!
  • KYO84KYO84 Riddle Solver Joined: Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Check the Dream Cancel wiki.
    "Better that we die on our feet than live on our knees!" Magneto
  • YinYin fun fun fun Joined: Posts: 3,396
    Thanks!
    slay this unaligned ant!
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