KoF XIII General Discussion: Part II

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  • SpαrksterSpαrkster G.F.B.T.G. Joined: Posts: 311
    Liz uses meter?



    Kyo is already wrecking my Elisabeth hard with dat rushdown. I suppose Karate will do the same.


    Thing that bothers me is that KoF has this amazing cast of interesting character designs, but the top tier just have to be the blandest shit possible.
    Elizabeth's biggest weakness now is her bad anti-airs. I played Romance's Elizabeth and he didn't even try anti-airing me, and I actually won some rounds with EX Iori fireballs and DPs. I think he dropped Elizabeth shortly after the tournament. qcf+A isn't the god move anymore so even if you can whiff it a few times you wont get meter and the reward on hit isn't as much since you'll have less meter and her DM does less damage. Honestly you're gonna have to be patient and play with st.A, forward hops, and play around with air-to-airs (maybe jump back j.C/j.A?) or just block unless you wanna spend meter on a EX qcf+K shenanigan. If you really feel out the situation then you could try fishing for a counterhit qcf+P combo since it launches higher than normal, but you wont wanna try this once Kyo's on top of you. I also forgot about her EX counter. It should get her out of any situation where you know that you're gonna be attacked by a jump-in so there you go.

    I really wouldn't suggest even trying to anti-air Karate's j.CD in this matchup until you really feel out a timing where he fucked up his spacing and timing.

    If it comforts you, Oogosho and Kaoru play Daimon/Raiden/Ralf who all get absolutely locked down by Karate, but they still play patient enough to find an opening while usually avoiding getting guard crushed. If you're not feeling that, then drop Elizabeth for a character with better anti-airs or AA conversions. Either way Karate will j.CD you multiple times, much like Chris will do the same in the older games. Even if you have a great DP, the risk/reward is still greatly stacked in the attacker's favor so you're going to need to be patient here regardless of your character.

    Also as for the top tiers being 'bland', the top tier characters vary pretty often KOF games. Maybe if you find Kim's footsies or Karate or 98 Iori having everything being boring then it might seem 'lame' if you can't compete with their power, but on the other hand the fight between two god characters usually plays out intensely and the struggle against them (with a 'weaker' character) is often addicting. Besides, there's plenty to pick from when the top tiers are divided between solid characters and burst damage characters (see: Karate compared to Hwa Jai).
  • HomunculiHomunculi Joined: Posts: 141
    Beni and both Ioris are not bland at all... At least, I don't think so.
    Also as for the top tiers being 'bland', the top tier characters vary pretty often KOF games. Maybe if you find Kim's footsies or Karate or 98 Iori having everything being boring then it might seem 'lame' if you can't compete with their power, but on the other hand the fight between two god characters usually plays out intensely and the struggle against them (with a 'weaker' character) is often addicting. Besides, there's plenty to pick from when the top tiers are divided between solid characters and burst damage characters (see: Karate compared to Hwa Jai).

    Oh, I meant the actual design of the character in itself, not their gameplay.


    Elizabeth's biggest weakness now is her bad anti-airs. I played Romance's Elizabeth and he didn't even try anti-airing me, and I actually won some rounds with EX Iori fireballs and DPs. I think he dropped Elizabeth shortly after the tournament. qcf+A isn't the god move anymore so even if you can whiff it a few times you wont get meter and the reward on hit isn't as much since you'll have less meter and her DM does less damage. Honestly you're gonna have to be patient and play with st.A, forward hops, and play around with air-to-airs (maybe jump back j.C/j.A?) or just block unless you wanna spend meter on a EX qcf+K shenanigan. If you really feel out the situation then you could try fishing for a counterhit qcf+P combo since it launches higher than normal, but you wont wanna try this once Kyo's on top of you.

    I heard she was on the higher parts of the tierlist though, so what is she good at instead? Pressuring?

    If it comforts you, Oogosho and Kaoru play Daimon/Raiden/Ralf who all get absolutely locked down by Karate, but they still play patient enough to find an opening while usually avoiding getting guard crushed. If you're not feeling that, then drop Elizabeth for a character with better anti-airs or AA conversions. Ryo shouldn't have any trouble with either problem since his cr.C is the best and you can DC his dp+C for anti-air combos.

    Might switch her out then, cause if you get me in the corner, I usually stay there since I get scared of pressing buttons very easily.
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  • Geese PantsGeese Pants Baggage Handlers.... Joined: Posts: 13,969 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So happy that KoF made it back to the Evo roster....................I'm getting ready for the rematch.
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  • BlaqAcidBlaqAcid All Blaq Everything Joined: Posts: 187
    ^^ I'm not even a KOF player but this was great news to hear.
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  • Reiki.KitoReiki.Kito Joined: Posts: 410
  • Great_Dark_HeroGreat_Dark_Hero Mai game is WAAAAAY better than your game Joined: Posts: 1,214 ✭✭✭
    KOFXIII back on EVO - Hype ensues...
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  • hoshi_mastershoshi_masters Joined: Posts: 103
    Good to see it come back.
    "You had guts kid. Now clean them up off the pavement."
    Terry Bogard, KOF '95
  • AirLancerAirLancer Just a touch of Honey Joined: Posts: 480 ✭✭✭
    I was about to be pretty mad if SFxT made it back in but KOF didn't. Good call Mr. Wiz.
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  • phoenixnlphoenixnl Joined: Posts: 536 ✭✭✭
    I heard she was on the higher parts of the tierlist though, so what is she good at instead? Pressuring?
    Her ability to convert all kinds of hits into massive data is really good. Not so much pressure, but just the threat of her normals, and ending up on the bad side of them.
  • DarkGeneralDarkGeneral Joined: Posts: 2,607 ✭✭✭✭✭


    Thing that bothers me is that KoF has this amazing cast of interesting character designs, but the top tier just have to be the blandest shit possible.

    Beni is actually my favorite KOF design of all time. I think overexposure to a character does lower the appeal of them over time both aesthetically and gameplay wise.
  • KrsJinKrsJin Cheat Kune Do Joined: Posts: 1,347
    So glad to see it return. I hate when games only appear once, especially when part of the community was behind the arcade scene going in.

    Also, does it feel like this game has actually increased on popularity and steam as of recently? Like before the EVO announcement even. We have the highest numbers in terms of casuals and tournies out here now than even at the launch of the game.
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  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,050 ✭✭✭
    Ok people, lets get hype:

    http://www.mmcafe.com/cgi-bin/forums/bbs/messages/13381.shtml#62794

    team cafeID is in Japan now. Details regarding the stream are in the link.
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  • NocturnalNocturnal SNK Supporter Joined: Posts: 2,970 mod
    Thanks for the info Emil Looking forward to the stream.
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  • AirLancerAirLancer Just a touch of Honey Joined: Posts: 480 ✭✭✭
    EDIT: 1st Korea team, picking these cats apart.

    Mad_KOF, double hop to bait Takuma's EX grab, that shit was genius!

    So sad both Cafe Id teams went down in semi-finals.

    Sheesh, at the last point I was watching I think the stream had 95k viewers. Just goes to show KOF definitely can bring in the numbers.
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  • JohnGrimmJohnGrimm A.K.A. JohnXuandou Joined: Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭✭
    Mad_KOF, double hop to bait Takuma's EX grab, that shit was genius!
    It was probably an OS hop.
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  • AirLancerAirLancer Just a touch of Honey Joined: Posts: 480 ✭✭✭
    It was probably an OS hop.

    Aw man, don't bring me down like that, haha.

    Though, care to explain further?
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  • JohnGrimmJohnGrimm A.K.A. JohnXuandou Joined: Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭✭
    Aw man, don't bring me down like that, haha.

    Though, care to explain further?
    All you have to do is tap up at the time your jump in would land. Since EX command grab is invincible, the jump misses, you hit the ground faster, and because you tapped up and you hit the ground faster, you hop. I mean, there's still an element of reading to it since anything invincible will make you hit the ground faster, even DP's, and you COULD hop into one, however Takuma does not have an invincible reversal besides DM's making it a pretty free option against him.
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  • AirLancerAirLancer Just a touch of Honey Joined: Posts: 480 ✭✭✭
    Hmmm, then if Takuma just s.Ced would it counter the OS hop, or would anything not invincible get stuffed by a hop attack?
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  • JohnGrimmJohnGrimm A.K.A. JohnXuandou Joined: Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭✭
    Hmmm, then if Takuma just s.Ced would it counter the OS hop, or would anything not invincible get stuffed by a hop attack?
    If it's not invincible and you use it during a SAFE JUMP it gets stuffed. If you just do it from a normal jump in something like a blowback could hit you, but for Takuma if they're too low to the ground there's pretty much nothing he can do but block or GC roll.
    You lack devotion! Enduring hunger and poverty is how you find the way!
  • AirLancerAirLancer Just a touch of Honey Joined: Posts: 480 ✭✭✭
    Ah, what am I thinking, of course...
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  • EmilEmil Joined: Posts: 4,050 ✭✭✭
    Pretty sure no option select was used there...I see people even mentioning that roll punishes are being option selected, seriously? That stuff is reactable.

    Option selects are useful to know but in a number of situations, they are totally unnecessary...and trying to find and use one for every situation really limits you as a player, in terms of improving your ability to read or react.
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  • cygnuscygnus going up Joined: Posts: 976
    pretty sure that was an os, a very commonly used one at that, vs takuma and exiori.
  • SpαrksterSpαrkster G.F.B.T.G. Joined: Posts: 311
    pretty sure that was an os, a very commonly used one at that, vs takuma and exiori.
    I can't find the match, but it sounds like Mad_KOF just did a basic rehop option which is common against characters with delay grabs. In fact if you safejump Takuma (which is easy) with a j.CD you can probably safely rehop into a jumping attack to make a nearly tight blockstring. Sounds like the same principal as when baiting 98 Iori's wakeup command grab.
  • yomipoweryomipower not a legendary game designer Joined: Posts: 1,164 ✭✭
    Has there been any talks about XIII Climax coming to consoles? IIRC even though it's mostly just the console changes + characters ported to arcade, it had some additional changes of it's own not on console XIII.
    Yomi, which is the Japanese word for the underworld. Also a brand of vitamins for children.
  • AirLancerAirLancer Just a touch of Honey Joined: Posts: 480 ✭✭✭
    Has there been any talks about XIII Climax coming to consoles? IIRC even though it's mostly just the console changes + characters ported to arcade, it had some additional changes of it's own not on console XIII.

    I wouldn't think so, since most of those changes are somewhat minor. Wasn't the biggest change fixing Flame Iori's neomax so it's an anywhere juggle when max canceled?
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  • JohnGrimmJohnGrimm A.K.A. JohnXuandou Joined: Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭✭
    I wouldn't think so, since most of those changes are somewhat minor. Wasn't the biggest change fixing Flame Iori's neomax so it's an anywhere juggle when max canceled?
    Hwa Jai got an HD bypass and Shen doesn't get counterhit from one of his moves, I forget which. There's also system changes like the input interpreter being changed to make half circles more lenient, a new optional input for Neo Max, and how supers affect inputs. While the changes are not massive, I still feel like they should make their way to console.
    You lack devotion! Enduring hunger and poverty is how you find the way!
  • SpαrksterSpαrkster G.F.B.T.G. Joined: Posts: 311
    Has there been any talks about XIII Climax coming to consoles? IIRC even though it's mostly just the console changes + characters ported to arcade, it had some additional changes of it's own not on console XIII.
    It's not happening. It was planned to release as an update but due to shenanigans, we ended up getting the rushed netcode patch instead of Climax. Updating to Climax at this point would be costly to go through Playstation and Microsoft's DLC/update policies, and they used up their one free update for the character select screen stutter patch.
  • yomipoweryomipower not a legendary game designer Joined: Posts: 1,164 ✭✭
    Well that's a bummer. Nice to see SNK still doesn't care about about KoF enough.
    Yomi, which is the Japanese word for the underworld. Also a brand of vitamins for children.
  • Desmond DelaghettoDesmond Delaghetto Ghetto Strategies Joined: Posts: 622
    Has there been any talks about XIII Climax coming to consoles? IIRC even though it's mostly just the console changes + characters ported to arcade, it had some additional changes of it's own not on console XIII.

    I heard that Shen's stand C got nerfed, so that small modification made me say "fuck a Climax console update". They can keep in arcades forever and ever, and I'm glad its there too.
    http://dreamcancel.com/ | Practice everyday without neglect
  • JohnGrimmJohnGrimm A.K.A. JohnXuandou Joined: Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭✭
    I heard that Shen's stand C got nerfed, so that small modification made me say "fuck a Climax console update". They can keep in arcades forever and ever, and I'm glad its there too.
    Shen will no longer receive a counter hit penalty when he’s hit during his Far C

    That's a hefty nerf you got there.
    You lack devotion! Enduring hunger and poverty is how you find the way!
  • Shin OniShin Oni Mr. Gimmicks Joined: Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭
    Didn't he lose some guard point frames on his far C also?
    I don't got those.
  • SpαrksterSpαrkster G.F.B.T.G. Joined: Posts: 311
    It's unclear whether the range was shortened, the guard point was reduced, or if his hurtbox was extended. Either way far C is worse.

    Shen can be counterhit out of far D, so they probably meant to list that as the change since no other character can be counterhit out of their grounded normals.
  • PapinguimPapinguim Joined: Posts: 308
    I want to see KoF XIV. I hope it comes out this year.
  • cygnuscygnus going up Joined: Posts: 976
    yea fuck a climax port, theres no reason to waste time and money on it at this point, better to use resources on whatever theyre doing next (metal slug?). snk would be stupid to patch it now
  • PapinguimPapinguim Joined: Posts: 308
    XIV should be a Dream Match, right? Since a story saga thing ended in XIII. If it is, I'm buying it.
  • artboy598artboy598 Joined: Posts: 75
    Any advice for getting people into KOF? What have you done to show people who have never played/don't play that it's a game worth picking up? What are some of your experiences with trying to get people into the series or a specific game?

    I tried to go to one place where people play fighting games in my college's area and asked if anyone played or wanted to play KOF 13 (I even brought my copy with me). The one guy looked at me like I was insane and then went "We play MAHVEL here". I replied "oh" and just walked away. I asked the owner of the system and he said they only play Tekken (6 and T2), Soul Calibur, and UMvC3.
  • Reiki.KitoReiki.Kito Joined: Posts: 410
    When you want to get people into anything, you have to get to know them. If you're new to them, there's no way you're going to get them to listen to you. You can't also depend on bringing your OWN setup, because nobody likes to lose. That's just simple. The big thing is overcoming the initial inertia necessary for them to play the game.

    It's easier when you make friends. Play with them and their games. Get to know them as people rather than as a group that plays fighting games. Once you do, introduce your game and how you play it. Tell them that you'll teach them how to play, demystify the game for them, and show them it's not impossible to play/learn.
  • cygnuscygnus going up Joined: Posts: 976
  • Desmond DelaghettoDesmond Delaghetto Ghetto Strategies Joined: Posts: 622
    Any advice for getting people into KOF? What have you done to show people who have never played/don't play that it's a game worth picking up? What are some of your experiences with trying to get people into the series or a specific game?

    I tried to go to one place where people play fighting games in my college's area and asked if anyone played or wanted to play KOF 13 (I even brought my copy with me). The one guy looked at me like I was insane and then went "We play MAHVEL here". I replied "oh" and just walked away. I asked the owner of the system and he said they only play Tekken (6 and T2), Soul Calibur, and UMvC3.

    Reiki brings up some good points. If you come at players sideways without even knowing them they will be close-minded to any fighting game you try to introduce them to. It's almost like a panhandler asking for change compared to a friend asking you. You don't know the pan-handler, so you might be hesitant at first, while you will give change to your friend without any second thoughts. Same with fighters. If a friend sees that you're having a good time with a game, they will be interested in learning. Now getting them to stick with it is a different story.

    Also, don't try so hard getting them in the game. Just let people know you play it. That's all. You will randomly come across a new person or two that's interested in the game (or probably even plays) at some point in time, so just keep waiting and keeping your eyes open. For myself I have came across really serious KOF players locally by not even looking at all. I just practiced by myself, kept my eyes open online on forums, facebook, etc. then they magically popped up ready to play and/or looking for people to play with. So don't try so hard trying to sell the game to others. Just let people know you play it, you enjoy it and that you take it seriously, then you will attract those who enjoy it too.

    Another thing to remember is to not expect so much out of the people you meet and that are interested in learning. Reason why because players tend to come and go. Someone can be interested in one day, then disappear the next day. People are just shifty like that. So, whenever you come across someone that is interested in playing, and has played with you a few times, don't pressure them into playing all the time. If someone flakes on you or seems disinterested a few invites to play, just leave them alone.

    One last thing to remember while you are alone and searching for players, is to step up your knowledge of the game and practice often. You may come across someone interested in learning the game, but if you don't know anything at all about it, how can you help them? Plus, if you are already passionate about the game, that will inspire people to learn the game or at least view it as a serious game...so if you aren't serious about KOF how can you make people local to you take it serious?

    So, outlining all the points made, make friends with your local FGC, keep practicing KOF, let people know you play it, keep your eyes open, don't annoy people, and don't try so hard. Then unexpectedly and randomly you will come across players.
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  • Great_Dark_HeroGreat_Dark_Hero Mai game is WAAAAAY better than your game Joined: Posts: 1,214 ✭✭✭

    Here is something that everyone wants to see. I would like to present to you... Frame Data! Of every character, except for Maxima and Robert -

    credits to Keykakko!

     https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AsrvpuirdQzwdGM0UDlRcGozMkJBQVZES0F4Zmw1MGc&f=true&noheader=true&gid=21

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  • ScSolidScSolid Joined: Posts: 5
    So I recently discovered you can do a lot of damage after leona's blowback on counter hit. Does anyone know any moves that are easy to counter hit? Or any advise on what situations you can anticipate a counter hit?
  • SpαrksterSpαrkster G.F.B.T.G. Joined: Posts: 311
    ScSolid said:
    So I recently discovered you can do a lot of damage after leona's blowback on counter hit. Does anyone know any moves that are easy to counter hit? Or any advise on what situations you can anticipate a counter hit?
    Most special moves are in a counter hit state, but I believe that most fireballs avoid being CH, though I cannot remember. All attacks done from a hop or hyper hop are in complete counter hit state, so if you see that the opponent was hopping and you bash them with your own j.CD, you can anticipate the followup combo. Honestly though, CD counter hits have added air time in XIII so you can realistically react to them as long as you know your combo option afterward. For now, I'd advise you to always buffer [4] when using jCD/stCD so that you can land Grand Saber afterward, or use Slash Saber (qcb,hcf+K). The only reacting you need to do is to pay attention to if a counter hit message pops up whenever you land a jCD or stCD.
  • discovigilantediscovigilante I'm associated with this guy! Joined: Posts: 2,438 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hey all, I'm totally fresh to this game so I wanted to get some input on a team and team construction in general.

    My friends and I decided Yuri/Kyo/Vice is an okay team for me to start with. I know Vice isn't top tier or anything but I can do her HD combos already and she's cool.
    Is this solid? Decent meter allotment?

    Thanks guys.
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  • cygnuscygnus going up Joined: Posts: 976
    yea shes solid, really good when they have to come at you cause of j.cd and st.aa into ex sleeve, hard to be good offensively in comparison. from my pov shes best 2nd cause you get meter but you won't have the burden of having to make a last char comeback w/ her. kyo fits better 3rd since he doesn't have a weakness, can rush down and open up, and ride without meter if you need to save.
  • EmpryreanEmpryrean ╯°□°)╯︵ (波動拳) Joined: Posts: 439
    I recently got this game.. like a week ago, and boy oh boy is it a doozy trying to figure the mechanics out with nobody to play with. Any tips you guys have for a new-ish fighting gamer trying to get into KOF?
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  • StuntAsHADES ONStuntAsHADES ON Joined: Posts: 40
    new to kof...help with team order...im currently learning benimaru/kyo/takuma...could i improve the order? opinion on team as a whole and individual characters...thx
  • SpαrksterSpαrkster G.F.B.T.G. Joined: Posts: 311
    Empryrean said:
    I recently got this game.. like a week ago, and boy oh boy is it a doozy trying to figure the mechanics out with nobody to play with. Any tips you guys have for a new-ish fighting gamer trying to get into KOF?
    I made these for a reason. Otherwise find someone to play.


    new to kof...help with team order...im currently learning benimaru/kyo/takuma...could i improve the order? opinion on team as a whole and individual characters...thx
    I'm tired of every single post being about team order. I'll spare every single one of you the effort and let you in on the secret: the only order that matters is the once you decide upon. Whichever position a character supposedly excels at is made moot by players like Tenkawa who can run Shen on point with an anchor Ash or Duo Lon. The only answer you should be looking for is "what order do I want?" which ultimately boils down to your own personal preferences and strategies (which are based on your own experience and instincts). As for the rest:

    • Benimaru: He's strong, but feels a little simpler and bare to me than in 98/02UM and he only hits hard in the corner. Basically, his strong neutral game lets him push the opponent into the corner fast and then he has his four point mixups into the instant air raijinken loop which is the single most meter effecient combo in the game.

    • Kyo: His fireball and df.D are strong pokes that coax the opponent to come to him and give him a little oomph when approaching since j.D sucks. He's nothing overwhelming, but solid at just about everything.

    • Takuma: Biggest bullshitter in the game when it comes to TOD comebacks. Make sure to have reaction qcf,hcb+C down for anti-air, and if you can hit the qcf+D, cr.A link you're golden and he hits like a truck even without meter. He's not too popular, but there are plenty of characters with with worse damage or options than Takuma.
  • REALPLAYERREALPLAYER Joined: Posts: 1,649 ✭✭
    edited March 2013
    ...
    Post edited by REALPLAYER on
    Mag/Dorm/Sent; Wolv/Dorm/Verg; Dante/Trish/others; Mag/VJoe/RR; Skrull/Nova/Spenc; Tron/Frank/others; Wesk/Dog/Akuma; Morr/MODOK/others; Nova/IM/Strange; Hawk/Dorm/Sent; Skrull/Chris/Doom; Hag/Hulk/Doom; Hag/Spenc/others; Tron/Spenc/Shulk; Hulk/Skrull/Shulk; Shulk/Task/Akuma; Morr/Strange/Phnx; GR/Nova/Phnx; Tron/Thor/Phnx; Viper/VJoe/others; Viper/SkrullFank/Doom; Hulk/MODOK/Dorm; Hulk/Pool/Mag; Zero/MODOK/FB; FB/MagDogDorm/others; Spider/StormX23/HawkStrider/IMRR/GRShulk; Cap/RRDoom/HawkThor/Viper others; X23/MorrArth/TronRR/ChrisHulk; Jill/IMDoom/DanteAkuma/TaskSent; Wolv/Pool/Sent; Thor/others/Strange; Thor/Trish/Doom; others/ Nova/Thor; Dfndrs; IF/others/Fel; Tron/PW/?; others/PW/Dog; VJoe/H-Ko/Shulk; Nem/Ryu/others; others/Morr/Shuma; GR/Shulk/H-Ko/Shuma
  • TheBlackHombreTheBlackHombre Aesthetic Joined: Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭
    Spαrkster wrote: »
    snip
    I decided to buy KOF recently because of the yearly XBL sale. I can't believe I didn't buy this game sooner, I'm loving it so far and the srk wiki has seriously helped my transition into the game. I'm obviously still new but all the guides on there will easily make me a solid player. Thanks brah! :D
  • NickRocksNickRocks On the west side I'm screaming FUCK KD Joined: Posts: 14,641 ✭✭✭✭✭
    hey guys, I was starting to play this game but then stopped when my copy got stolen. recently decided to get back into it.

    What are some good characters with some easy combos that will allow me to not be completely embarrassed at my local gatherings
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