Honda Safe Jump Setups, Fake Crossups and Unblockables + Vids

gutabogutabo Joined: Posts: 279
Greetings fellow Honda players, it's been a while!

Some time ago(back when I was playing the game), I was looking for foolproof ways of getting safe jumps with the sumo wrestler. I came up with a bunch of stuff that I'm sure lots of you know but maybe some of you don't, thing is I haven't seen it posted here yet so here I go(but I'm positive I've read at least one of these setups somewhere here).

There's an excellent safe jump post by 3nigmat1c and even if it's balrog-focused, much of it applies to everyone.
Spoiler:

I'll go right through the setups but I have to warn you guys that this is a WIP and everyone is welcome to correct me(and my english) at anytime.

#1 - (opponent in corner) regular throw, dash, c.MP, neutral jump HK
VIDEO HERE

It's a regular safe jump setup, you can mash the dash, plink the c.MP and hold the neutral jump. If Ibuki, Gen and Guy do nothing, the nj.HK will miss, but if they block/crouch/whatever it'll connect. Yeah, funky hitboxes... You have to replace the c.MP with a standing MP for it to work with Sagat, Cammy and Dhalsim. And if you're playing Super, replace the c.MP with a LK for Adon. Same principle can be applied mid screen for a regular throw, dash, c.MP, neutral jump into new jersey HP(drifting backwards) for 4 frame reversals and onwards. Due to the nature of most of the srk's hitboxes if done properly it will "work" with 3 frame reversals but it won't hit them out of their SRKs, you just will be able to block. Also with that setup variation if they do nothing or if they crouch the nj.HP won't hit them. They have stand and block for it to connect. I found that in some tests there was a "sweet spot" while drifting mid air with the HP where Honda could block Ryu's MP and EX SRKs but it could stuff his LP and HP SRKs, and it wouldn't work the same against Akuma's SRKs so it's not that reliable if you want to hit them, still it's a safe bait and it can be used on some people. You can use another variation miscreen too replacing the nj.HK with a nj.LP, but it's not as effective, it's harder to combo aftewards on reaction or OS anything. For most of these safe jump setups, you can block 3 frame reversals(shoryukens) if you don't attack while in mid air. Finally, I thought for a long time that the setup was with a c.MK instead, lol.

#2 - (midscreen) regular throw, dash, c.MK, crossup jumping forwards MK
VIDEO HERE

Similar to the first setup(and its variations), its main drawback is that it doesn't work on all the cast, it only works on:
- Ryu, Ken, Dudley, Seth, Gouken, Dan, Sakura, C.Viper, Bison, Cody, Hakan, Blanka(use s.MP instead of c.MK), Zangief, Rufus, El Fuerte, Vega, T. Hawk, Cammy(use c.MP instead of c.MK), Adon(if super/chocolate: use c.LK instead of c.MP)
- On Ibuki, Dee Jay, Dhalsim the crossup whiffs if they do nothing or if they try to block it and it will only hit them if they crouch, but why would they block crouching a jump in?
- Honda, Makoto, Akuma, Gen, Juri, Chun Li, Abel, Guy, Balrog, Fei Long, Rose and Sagat don't even have to block it, since it will whiff on them even if they are crouching. It's still a safe jump so if chars that it won't work on try to wake up reversal honda you will be able to block it. Of course, for 3 frame reversals you must empty jump to try to bait and punish reversals.

#3 - (midscreen) back throw, s.MP, jumping forwards HP/HK
VIDEO HERE

Good news! for the back throw midscreen you have a really, really good safe jump setup for characters with regular wakeup time that even works against SRKs! Due to honda's positioning, it'll make ALL shoto SRKs whiff or be blocked. For Sagat, Cammy and Blanka replace the s.MP with a throw whiff. Rejoice!

#4 - (honda in corner) back throw, cs.MP, jumping forwards MK
VIDEO HERE

If you're in the corner, a back throw will get you the best positioning(opponent in corner), but if for some wild reason you want to jump into the corner with a safe jump crossup(that works for every character with regular wakeup timing and with a 4 frame reversal and onwards) just go for this setup. It will hit everyone except Dhalsim(more on that on the post below) and the shotos(3 frames autocorrect SRK will get your arse everytime). As always, you can empty jump to bait and punish those SRKs but if you got them cornered I don't see why you would want to try to bait something AND end up cornered at the same time but the option is there(well there's one reason, read more about this on the post below). For Sagat, Cammy and Blanka replace the s.MP with a s.HK(it'll be the close version too). Ibuki, Guile and Abel can jump up(yeah, wtf) and escape the crossup. This setup won't work on Juri, Dhalsim or Fei Long.

#5 - (anywhere) sweep, c.LP, jumping forwards MK/HP/HK
VIDEO HERE

From a sweep you can use this setup. It's better from a distance, since if you're right next to the opponent you have to use a crossup and the crossup will only hit Ryu, Ken, Dudley, Seth, Gouken, Dan, Sakura, C.Viper, Bison, Cody, Hakan, Zangief, Rufus, El Fuerte, Vega and T. Hawk. The main use for this would be from max range to mid range(like, after a far focus) since you can go for a regular safe jumping HP/HK that works on anyone with regular wake up timing. It's really not practical to go and try to get the specific range for a sweep into a crossup, it's a character specific sweet spot.

#6 - (anywhere) many loosely timed variations
VIDEO HERE

If you feel like learning timings yourself, you can regular throw, dash, walk a bit backwards and forward jump into air MK. If you don't want to crossup, you can backdash, walk forwards a little bit(or mash s.HK and then walk back a little bit) and jump forward +HP/HK for a non crossup safe jump. About the first one I mentioned: try to learn the timing first since the space you have to go back is character specific if you're aiming for a crossup(i.e. a safe jump crossup on Guy won't crossup Fei Long or will miss him entirely and will hit Zangief as a safe jump). You can learn the timings and make them work but it's not an exact science like the other setups so keep that in mind.

MORE SETUPS:
I really shouldn't be posting this since it needs more testing(like I said before) but here we go. For regular wakeup timing:
- Oicho: it gives you a hard knockdown of 26 frames. It's too few to have a safe jump.
- Super(midscreen): ok, things get ugly here. Assuming you land it on a grounded(not airborne) opponent, the best I have afterwards is jump forward, walk a liiiiitle bit or make a little pause, jump forward again +HP/HK. A variation that gives you a similar situation to the safe jump setup #3 is dash forward x2, walk a liitle bit forward, jumping forward HP. Both are hard timings to get consistently but practice makes perfection!
- Super(near corner): After a super you can do a jump forward, the same tiny walk and a neutral jumping HK if you're close enough. It all depends on how close you both are to the corner.
- Super(corner): The most consistent setup I got is after super, backdash, c.MP, jumping forward HP/HK to keep the opponent in the corner. And if you wanna go for a crossup IIRC after a super, dash, c.HP and jump forwards MK will make many reversals whiff(character specific).
- Ultra 1: this is easier since it always drags them into the corner. After ultra, c.MP, neutral jump will give you a so so safe jump, because at that range nj.HK whiffs on many characters. You can go for a nj.HP drifted backwards or a nj. LP. Each one has pros/cons I talked about in the safe jump setup #1. If you want a crossup tho(and to get yourself cornered), c.MP, forward jumping MK will work wonders. It's a female dog to test anything ultra 1 related because the long animation eats up all the dummy recording time :( BUT some fake crossup setups work here too!
- Ultra 2: Depending on your screen position, a little walk forward/back into jumping MK/HK will do the trick. Yeah, no "real" setup, sorry, we need more frames there. You can do some not-so-safe stuff with MK/HK buttslam tho: if you cancel them from an overhead, since it moves Honda's frame back before being active it also can make a MK buttslam(which is a crossup in that situation) NOT a crossup or to make a HK buttslam(which whiffs in that situation) to hit.
- Overhead: the size of the opponent and its state (standing, crouching, attacking in most cases also modifies the hurtbox size) change the setup required for a safe jump. A crouching small opponent needs 2 very fast s.LKs and a jumping forward MK that might crossup or not(character specific). Depending on the size/state you have to switch the 2 s.LKs for a sc.HP(if you're close enough for it to come out) or a whiffed throw.
- Buttslam(second hit): they also depend on the opponent state/size at the moment the 2nd hit of the buttslam connects, but their main weakness is that if the opponent techs the wakeup, they are rendered useless. If the opponent forgets to tech against Abel after a c.LP xx EX buttslam(after HP/EX hands) you can do a dash, c.LP, jumping forward MK. In the same situation against Balrog after an EX buttslam(after HP hands) if he doesn't tech you can do a c.HP into crossup j.MK, altho it will whiff if he crouches and does nothing(very rare). Against many other grounded opponents if you're close enough after an EX buttslam you can do a c.HP, neutral jumping HK.

PS: I have nothing against Ken... he just makes an excellent test subject for safe jumps since he has 3 AND 4 frame shoryukens(LP, HP vs MP, EX).

Unblockables and Fake Crossups(or "Unblockables" or "reverse block") Setups
Spoiler:

DISCLAIMER: When I say Unblockable, I mean an unblockable LIKE THIS ONE, not this fireball - FADC into ultra unblockable. And what I call Fake Crossup is a crossup jump in attack that you can only reverse block - i.e. block NOT as a crossup, altho the attack is going to crossup and leave honda behind the opponent in most cases. And by "in most cases" I mean that sometimes, depending on the character you're doing the setups on, the attack will crossup(or not, "teleporting" you back to the side you started your jump on) based on if the attack was blocked(or not). This opens a nice can of worms from a backthrow into corner for Honda!

IMPORTANT: 99.9% of the setups presented below ARE safe jumps against almost everyone(including shotos) because if they attack(reversal or not, 3 frame shoryuken or not) due to Honda's positioning the attack will go the wrong way. That means that in most cases you don't even have to block and you can react to a whiffed shoryuken, for example. In some cases, they can still focus attack dash cancel out of the corner. In other cases, if Honda's jump in attack connects, that will push them(sometimes "teleport" them) towards the corner.

Safest Jump Setup - (Honda in corner) back throw, cs.HP, jumping forwards MK
VIDEO HERE

Now, as I said before, Dhalsim gave me issues with the cornered back throw setup. At first I thought "seems like he gets up 1 frame slower, or another case of wonky hitboxes", so I tried the same setup as Sagat/Cammy/Blanka and it worked for him too. But a mistake(like many others here, counting frames or on execution) lead me to this(yet another) setup on Dhalsim. The thing that makes this setup interesting is not that it's a safe jump per se(in fact, strictly going by the numbers, it's not), but the fact that when the opponent tries to reversal you (special, super, ultra, you name it) it goes the wrong way EVERY TIME. The only escape is to focus, absorb the jump in attack and then dash to the center of the screen(or "forward dash" in some cases). Looks like the back throw puts opponents into the corner in a way that honda won't cross them up until a couple of frames before landing. The only bad news is that it doesn't work with Honda, Makoto, Chun Li, Cammy, Blanka and T. Hawk, works just fine with EVERYONE ELSE, altho for Sagat after the throw just mash two s.LK instead of the sc.HP. Oni and Evil Ryu's EX SRKs will hit you tho, every other reversal shoryuken will whiff or will be beaten. The key is to time correctly the crossup j.MK so if they don't reversal you the wrong way it'll hit them. Be careful, tho - if you misstime the j.MK in certain characters, they'll be able to block it BOTH ways! Honda also doesn't has to be all the way with his back on the corner because the back throw animation carries him some distance backwards (allowing the close HP) so even at almost half screen from the corner you'll get the setup to work(and even further if you have an opponent with a fat hitbox). Finally, this setup is relevant because besides being a "true" safe jump setup that works with 3 frame reversals and that it also beats ground throws with startup invincibility that beat other safe jump setups is the fact that it acts as an option to create a mixup of sorts using the fake unblockables: once your opponent gets the message that you're doing a fake crossup, you can do a true crossup (using the same setup) to keep him guessing which side he has to block. I'm sorry if I'm repeating myself but I'm trying to be as clear as possible.

Continued on the post below!
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Comments

  • gutabogutabo Joined: Posts: 279
    FAKE CROSSUPS

    When these setups are done correctly, the opponent has to block them backwards like a fake crossup("the wrong way" - towards the corner!) even tho you're indeed crossing them up, and most of the times you'll end up in the corner, altho that is character dependant(as are the punishes). It's easy to OS here, since 99.99% of all reversal attacks will go the wrong way. Only Adon, Blanka, Cody, Dee Jay, Honda and T. Hawk are inmune(so far) to fake crossups.

    PROTIP: If you're having trouble getting fake crossups, go to training mode and try setup #1 first on Bison (Dictator), then hit playback mode and try to block it. It's easier to get it on him because of his particular hitbox.

    #1- (Honda in corner) back throw, cs.HP, jumping forwards MK/HK
    FAKE CROSSUP ON RYU VIDEO

    J.HK version works on Ryu, Ken, Akuma, Gen, Sakura, Oni, Yun, Dhalsim, C. Viper, Bison, Hakan, Yang, Evil Ryu and Rufus(early j.HK for him). MK version won't work on Akuma and Rufus. You have to delay the cs.HP a liiitle bit(mash it slower, heh) for both versions. Regular restrictions apply and unless specifically noted, all super/ultras will whiff/go the wrong way.
    - Ryu, Ken: J.HK's drawbacks are that it can be normal dashed escaped and that some moves that move the hurtbox forward will make it whiff. J.MK doesn't have those issues.
    - Akuma, Gen: J.HK will whiff 80% of the time if they do nothing or if they do some special attacks or even some normals that move their hurtbox, altho the timing to escape using a normal attack is hard - I tried using turbo and it only worked sometimes. They can't jump out of either version. OSing them(like OS throw back into the corner) works depending on their action . If they mash FADC too fast they'll dash into Honda. MK version doesn't work on Akuma, and it can be an unblockable(as the j.HK version) on Gen.
    - Sakura, Oni, Evil Ryu: They can jump out of the j.HK version. Also some special attacks move their hurtbox(so the j.HK whiffs). J.MK beats jumping out of it and all special moves with no invincibility. Oni and Evil Ryu can EX shoryuken their way out of the j.MK version hitting Honda only once(j.HK makes both EX dps whiff most of the time).
    - Yun, Yang: J.HK will whiff if they do nothing, they can jump out of it, they can use some normal and special moves to "escape"(since they move their hurtbox forward, but that can be OS thrown back into the corner) but if they try to dash/FADC out of it they cause a "Honda teleport", moving themselves into the corner again. J.MK version beats all the escapes previously mentioned. Against Yun's Nishou Kyaku(kick dp) you can OS a jump out of the corner to chase those EX/HK versions(and even walk and EX oicho the HK one after the jump) or to crossup j.MK the LK version(the MK version gets stuffed). Otherwise OS back throw him into the corner again. Yang can teleport out too(doing it "the wrong way") but only his LK Senkyuutai(kick dp) gives him a mild escape(with a free punish for Honda) - all the other versions(EX included) get stuffed.
    - Dhalsim: He can't teleport out of any version at all(all teleports will bring him right next to Honda, into the corner or not), he can dash/jump out of the j.HK version. Yoga Fire/Flame will make the j.HK whiff but they'll come out the wrong way. J.MK beats all his escape attempts except for oc.LK and the standard FADC.
    - C. Viper: Some special attacks will move her hurtbox forwards causing the j,HK to whiff, and even some normals, altho I tried that with turbo and it only worked sometimes. The j.MK version doesn't have that issue(it will connect everytime) and it can be an unblockable.
    - Bison: He can dash out of the j.HK version, but he has this huge special move escape galore that makes the j.HK setup almost useless if he has meter. The j.MK is only better because he can't dash out of it, but still a Bison with meter has too many ways around them. Only EX Head Stomp/Devil Reverse can kinda bother Honda, all other EX attacks will whiff but leave him far from punish. Teleports have to be done the wrong way to get him out of the corner.
    - Hakan: He can only FADC out of both setups to escape, and even then, he has to time it late otherwise he'll dash into Honda. OS a throw just in case because his EX slide makes the jumping attacks whiff, but teleports Honda out of the corner(making it a failed escape attempt) and you'll have to block it the other way around. All other slide versions(and other specials) get stuffed. Beware of his ultra 2.
    - Rufus: If the j.HK is blocked, it leaves Rufus in the corner(a case of "Honda teleport"). If Rufus tries to FADC out of the corner, he'll be stuck in the corner again(via teleport!). All of his answers that are not beaten by the j.HK(all Snake Strike versions, EX Messiah Kick) whiff and can be punished. Only Ultra 2 has to be blocked since it hits behind Rufus.

    #2- (Honda in corner) back throw, cs.HP, jumping forwards MK/HK
    VIDEO COMING SOON - editing

    The j.MK setup works on Dudley, Seth, Gouken, Balrog and Zangief. The j.HK works on everyone previously mentioned except Balrog. In this second group the jumping attack has to be done early, even earlier than the first group. For the same reason, here the "Honda teleports" are more common, specially on (counter) hit and with opponents with taller hurtboxes. Here the cs.HP after the throw has to come out as soon as possible. The j.HK this time does not whiff if opponents do nothing or neutral jump but it's harder to time. The j.MK is easier to get but you get less hitstun, so c.LP into hands is, most of the times, your only followup option into a combo. Regular restrictions apply and unless specifically noted, all super/ultras whiff or go the wrong way.
    - Dudley: Counter won't help him(you'll hit him out of it), but his duck/mgb moves will make him escape the corner. The charge thing will get him out too, but that's easy to punish on reaction, even if you haven't seen it before. Uppercuts will whiff or get stuffed, depending on the setup used.
    - Seth: Can't do anything except for teleporting the wrong way(towards the corner), which will get him to the other corner or midscreen. Everything else you can easily punish or gets stuffed.
    - Gouken: His counter saves him from being hopeless against these setups. Tatsus whiff for hours, and the auto tracking of the demon flip EX(the other special attack that can "escape" the hit) keeps Gouken close to Honda.
    - Zangief: Only EX green hand will get him out of the corner. EX SPD won't touch you, and EX SPD(kick version) will absorb the hit but will try to grab you while still in the air and fail. Lariats whiff(punch version) or are stuffed(kick version).
    - Balrog: Headbutts will whiff, non ex dash punches will get stuffed, ex dash punches wil absorb the hit and go the wrong way, turn punch will whiff but can be OS thrown back into the corner. The j.HK version won't work with him at all.

    #3- (Honda in corner) back throw, cs.HK, jumping forwards MK/HK
    VIDEO COMING SOON - editing

    Using j. MK it works on Makoto, Chun Li, Abel, Cammy and Guy. Using the HK variation it works on Dan(and most of the characters mentioned before, see below). Unlike the previous 2 groups, characters in this group do not share a common timing for their fake crossups. Also the sc.HK has to be done as early as possible. Regular restrictions apply and unless specifically noted, all super/ultras whiff or go the wrong way.
    - Makoto: Using j.HK, she can whiff an EX Oroshi or try to use a Fukiage to escape. The LP Fukiage will get stuffed by j.HK(or will whiff on j.MK), all other versions will whiff. The j.MK setup can be an unblockable.
    - Chun Li: The j.HK version doesn't work with her. The j.MK version will keep her in the corner if she tries to get you with a reversal EX SBK, which you can block but you have to block the wrong way(since you're getting teleported out of the corner). An EX Hazanshu will get her out of trouble too but you can punish it.
    - Abel: The j.HK version will let him escape if he does nothing or if he does some normal/special moves that move his hurtbox forwards. The j.MK version will only give him a chance if he uses his EX roll(can be OS thrown) or his EX CoD(will absorb the hit and go the wrong way). Everything else gets beaten.
    - Cammy: The j.MK lets her use all cannon drill versions to escape, which not happens with j.HK(it stuffs them). Spin Knuckle EX lets her out(can be punished) and all Cannon Spikes whiff. Also j.HK won't let her escape using a FADC since it'll cause another "Honda teleport" outside of the corner.
    - Guy: No j.HK version on Guy. The j.MK version works wonders except for the EX run. Everything else gets beaten or whiffs. The j.MK version can be an unblockable.
    - Dan: There's something about Dan's hurtbox... it's really inconsistent. With j.HK sometimes you'll get that it doesn't hit Dan if he does nothing or if he jumps out of the setup. Or sometimes you'll get that it doesn't let him jump and that it does hit him if he does nothing, but if he blocks correctly(not as a crossup) the j.HK won't hit him.... Anyway, all his attacks will whiff. All of them. Punish accordingly.

    #4- (Honda in corner) back throw, cs.LK, cs.LK, jumping forwards MK/HK
    VIDEO COMING SOON - editing

    This setup is kinda hard because the 2 LKs have to be linked as fast as possible. It works on Dudley, Seth, Gouken, Juri, Rose and Rufus. Here since both versions work with all characters I'll first talk about the j.HK version and then about the j.MK version. Regular restrictions apply and unless specifically noted, all super/ultras whiff or go the wrong way.
    - Dudley: The j.HK won't let him regular dash out of the corner, nor use normal attacks to escape. All his attacks will whiff and the counter won't work either. But almost any of his moves with forward momentum will take him out of the situation. The FADC has to be done slowly otherwise he'll dash into Honda. Only advantage of using j.MK is that it'll beat LP MGB and his non EX DPs(that otherwise just whiff using j.HK).
    - Seth: FADC will make the j.HK whiff. Like with setup #2, if he does the teleport into the corner he'll appear in the opposite corner(kick version) or midscreen(punch version). All his attacks will whiff. In case of a counter hit, he'll "teleport" you out of the corner. J.MK will do everything j.HK does plus it'll beat LP shoryuken and non EX tatsus and it will hit(will be absorbed by) the FADC.
    - Gouken: His counters(all except the LP version) save him from an otherwise unescapable situation. Only tatsus(all versions) and EX demon flip make the j.HK whiff but they are hardly a safe escape. The j.MK is the inferior version here.
    - Juri: Her options/escapes with j.HK kinda suck. Her Senpusha gets beaten or whiffs. Only her EX counter works(regular versions aren't activated by j.HK), but you can hit her out of the air easily with a s.HP or a nj.HP. J.MK beats all regular Senpushas but it activates all her regular counters so it's a tradeoff between both versions.
    - Rose: Another good test subject with j.HK. Everything gets beaten if she doesn't have meter(as usual). Only EX drill and EX DP manage to escape, but an OS jump can punish both of them. Only downside of the j.HK version is that gets beaten by Ultra 2. So if they use that ultra and have it loaded start using j.MK to beat it clean.
    - Rufus: All snake strikes will whiff against a j.HK. J.MK will beat all regular snake strikes and make him flip into a nice reset. A fast FADC against any version will make him dash back to Honda. All other regular/special attacks(save for the almighty jesus kick) will be beaten by either version.

    #5- (Honda in corner) back throw, walk backwards, pause, jumping forwards MK/HK
    VIDEO COMING SOON - editing

    Aahh.. the black sheep of setups... these are hard to do but they are the most rewarding - have you ever seen a jumping attack beat ALL of Cammy's DPs? Also 50% of the times you'll end up outside the corner. Some are kinda viable but some are so hard that I could only do them once and because of that are not included/counted. Similar restrictions/applications as the other fake crossups mentioned before apply. These work on Seth, Abel, Sagat, Cammy, Rufus, El Fuerte, Vega and T.Hawk. You might be able to do this kind of setups in every character but I don't think they are practical at all. At least, most of this characters have other setups that work with them. This part will include more character specific details as soon as I finish its videos(with all the characters included).

    UNBLOCKABLES

    #1- Guile: (Honda in corner) back throw, sc.HP, jumping forwards MK/HK
    UNBLOCKABLE ON GUILE VIDEO (HK VERSION)

    This is the first unblockable I found and the one that really started all this stuff. Guile has a hitbox that makes it "easy" for Honda to Unblockable (heck, he has 2 viable setups!) compared to other unblockables. The j.MK one only has one escape(besides just frame blocking, that I can't do at all) which is focus absorb the j.MK and dash cancel towards the center of the screen but it gives you less hitstun since the j.MK hits early so you have to be on point to combo afterwards(wow, long sentence!). The j.HK setup can be escaped by Guile just by dashing towards the center of the screen or holding neutral jump(which is not really an escape but it does escape the unblockable situation) but it has a very nice hitstun you can combo/OS out of. So, choose their poison!

    #2- C. Viper: (Honda in corner) back throw, sc.HP, jumping forwards MK
    UNBLOCKABLE ON VIPER VIDEO

    This one is a lot like Guile's. C. Viper must do a FADC to escape, otherwise all her other options can be punished. Unless she does an EX seismo feint(which still has recovery frames and can be OS thrown) all her options leave her in vulnerable spots.

    #3- Ibuki: (Honda in corner) back throw, sc.HK, jumping forwards MK
    UNBLOCKABLE ON IBUKI VIDEO

    This one is a little bit harder than Guile's unblockable, it's also done using sc.HK instead of sc.HP. Its only escape is also focus absorb the j.MK and then dash towards the center of the screen, but it's better for Honda because at the height it connects(hitbox wise) it gives you a little bit more time to combo her. Ibuki's teleports won't save her, yes, not even the EX version. You can also get the fake crossup to work(j.HK version) since it's WAY easier to do, but it might only connect if Ibuki blocks one way(as a crossup) and whiff if she blocks the other way(at least you get a nice back throw OS into the corner again).

    #4- Makoto: (Honda in corner) back throw, sc.HK, jumping forwards MK
    UNBLOCKABLE ON MAKOTO VIDEO

    This timing is a bit different, the j.MK has to be pressed a little bit later. However, Makoto only has the FADC as a viable escape, everything else can be punished, except for Ultra 2(hold HK). Also she has to dash cancel her focus kinda slowly, because if it's a fast dash cancel it'll go the wrong way: towards Honda.

    #5- Guy: (Honda in corner) back throw, sc.HK, jumping forwards MK
    UNBLOCKABLE ON GUY VIDEO

    If you nailed Ibuki's unblockable using training mode, go to the character selection screen, select Guy now, and chances are, 8 out of 10 times it'll work on him. I don't know why but it took me longer to find this unblockable by itself. Here Guy is not as screwed as Ibuki and Guile, since besides FADCing out of the crossup(and the corner) he can EX run his way out of the corner, which kinda counts as a FADC since he'll absorb the hit and run away, but it's not by any chance as punishable as a back dash. Thing is,he has to do the EX run the right way (which is the "wrong way"), like your jump in wasn't a crossup. And to get him to waste some meter on stuff that's not going to hit you is a small victory in the meter management battle.

    #6- Gen: (Honda in corner) back throw, sc.HP, jumping forwards HK
    UNBLOCKABLE ON GEN VIDEO

    This unblockable is weird, because it whiffs if Gen does nothing, or does some attacks that move his hitbox, like hands(any version) or even some normals. Because of that I wasn't sure about calling it an unblockable, but it can't be blocked so I guess it is one. And you can always go with the fake crossup setup or the safe crossup setup(neither whiffs if Gen does nothing) to mix it up a bit. Besides what I said before, Gen can also escape using his KKK stance flash kick(I won't bother looking up the name), a dash or a FADC(the j.MK will whiff) towards the center of the screen. You can OS his escapes tho since none of his anti air specials attacks will hit you(and super/ultra flashes will give you time to react and plan the more viable punish) so it's not an unpractical unblockable, just one that has more escapes than the average.

    #7- El Fuerte: (Honda in corner) back throw, walk back, jumping forwards MK
    UNBLOCKABLE ON EL FUERTE VIDEO

    This unblockable was a female dog to find because it's not an exact science. Well, neither of the unblockables are, but at least it's easier to just worry about the jumping attack's timing rather that in lots of timings at once. This setup was also hard to reproduce, and it is included here more as a proof of concept than anything else. I can see people going for the fake crossup setup, but this unblockable... I don't know. Well, I've been wrong before many times so maybe someone can master this and use it at every possible chance, even mid screen. Back to the topic, this unblockable has a nifty advantage: if "blocked" as a crossup it'll hit anyway but it'll teleport Honda away from the corner. As all safe jump setups, this is also unpunishable by El Fuerte, and besides FADCing out of the corner he has his EX run, which has to be done the wrong way too. Good luck with this one!

    Meh, editing/uploading vids + adding annotations takes so much time... and I don't even have the game yet!!!!! Too many vids to edit(over a hundred) but I have it all recorded!

    Finally, please, if you're going to give a thumbs down to my vids, at least tell me why you're doing it. That'll help me improve the videos I'll be uploading soon, unless it's the quality you're mad about(I can't do any better).
  • SlappySlapsSlappySlaps Down Back Monster Joined: Posts: 520
    Oh man, some good stuff here. I have always wondered some safe jump set ups for Honda. Im looking forward to more stuff from you :)
    SlappySlaps: How do you do your jab hands?
    Mike Ross: I do jab, strong, fierce, jab, fierce.
    SlappySlaps: I do Mr.SNK's style
    Mike Ross: Yeah you do it the smart way, lol.
  • gutabogutabo Joined: Posts: 279
    Uploading videos now... it's a shame my capture card is not working :( Expect lots of bad quality from my phone's camera. I will keep updating the thread.

    Sorry for the huge delay... real life issues plus I don't have the game yet so I depend on a friend's time(all of the vids I have were made in one session) :(
  • SLICK RICKSLICK RICK Joined: Posts: 1,118 ✭✭
  • stev0knev022stev0knev022 Pad Honda's Unite. Joined: Posts: 172
    I'm pretty sure Honda also has a safe jump set up off super, i dont have a particular timing for it, i just walk forward a bit and do jump RH.

    Works against Sagats tiger upper nyway.
    360 dpad warrior.
  • gutabogutabo Joined: Posts: 279
    Hey Stevo, nice avatar!(name plox), are you the same stevoknevo I used to play on XBL last year(my GT is gutabo2, I stopped playing like 9 months ago or more) that used Rog? If so, Sup! Also congrats on that EVO ticket, AE honda army FTW! :D

    And to answer your post, yes, there are safe jump setups from a super. They're far more handy close to corner than midscreen, but testing them is a pain in the arse since depending on the hurtbox of the opponents the 2nd hit of the super takes a frame or two more(or less) to connect, and that screws up the dummy timing for the safe jump afterwards. Still, I identified 4 groups of wakeup timings back in super(and back when I was playing the game) but I still have to test for changes in AE(and make videos of that), I don't want to post stuff I haven't tested thoroughly. Same issue with safe jump setups after an overhead, the size of the opponent, and more important, the state of the opponent(standing, crouching, attacking in most cases also modifies the hurtbox size) change the setup required for a safe jump. And testing the possible crossup afterwards is also a pain in the arse because it's also character specific. I have those too, and I will post them too. And finally, an unteched wakeup after the second hit of a buttslam also has safe jump setups, and they also depend on the opponent state/size at the moment the 2nd hit of the buttslam connects, but their main weakness is that if the opponent techs the wakeup, they are rendered useless. Still, I have them too. I have only found cases where the opponent might forget to tech more often and that is in a combo, like against abel(c.LP xx EX buttslam after HP/EX hands) or balrog(EX buttslam after HP hands) or doing the honda trials combo(EX hands into c.LP xx EX buttslam on standing opponent).

    My main concern is that all the setups should be able to be reproduced, so if I have recorded footage showing a Rufus unblockable but I can't do it again, it doesn't count(yeah, that renders as useless a chunk of my recorded footage). I STILL have recorded tests that I have to edit and upload to youtube from that testing day at my friend's place.
  • stev0knev022stev0knev022 Pad Honda's Unite. Joined: Posts: 172
    Cant say i remember your GT, ive messed around with all charge characters but mainly blanka and honda, tx man cant wait to go, will be my first time in the U.S too so im really looking forward to it.

    Im just waiting for the converter i ordered to arrive and then i'll be all set, cant do shit without my xbox360 pad......... dunno how anyone does HHs on stick lol.

    Thats Miranda Kerr in the avatar.
    360 dpad warrior.
  • ssjbrydonssjbrydon Jim Mora is my role model Joined: Posts: 4,341
    really really good shit gutabo, u need to get back on xbox man.
    XBL - GOL Krucial B
  • gutabogutabo Joined: Posts: 279
    Thanks guys, hey ssjbrydon, sup, long time no see!

    Ok I've revamped the 2nd post about fake crossups and unblockables, I apologize to people that didn't understand what I was talking about, I've tried to make it as clear as possible.
    Suggestions are welcome, I had to edit a crapton of vids to find suitable takes to upload. Yeah, scanlines suck, my phone sucks more, me not having the game sucks even more, and me not having a capture card anymore sucks the most.
  • stev0knev022stev0knev022 Pad Honda's Unite. Joined: Posts: 172
    Thanks for the info man, ive recently been doing alot more fake crossup jump forward RH in the corner. You can even time it so Honda will appear to hit crossup but then land infront like the akuma jump lk trick.

    Really nice stuff man.
    360 dpad warrior.
  • gutabogutabo Joined: Posts: 279
    Thank YOU!

    Yeah, in some characters you can actually choose where you're going to appear/"teleport". Off the top of my head I have an example(and using the throw, s.HP into j.HK setup) against Fei Long: if you do the j.HK really early, he can block the crossup normally but you'll appear in the front, and if you delay the j.HK a little bit you'll appear in the back but he won't be able to block the crossup the regular way. Thing is, both hits look the same until you do the "honda teleport", and I have it recorded with my crappy phone! :p

    I'll try to get it all recorded with a better capturing device, but right now real life stuff has ore priority so sorry if I take a while to do that.
  • sage2050sage2050 AG Vinco Joined: Posts: 592
    tagging this thread, this is good stuff.
    Always Godlike
    www.alwaysgodlike.com
  • gutabogutabo Joined: Posts: 279
    Thanks guys!

    I reordered the info in the first posts because I hit the size limit for my 2nd post and lost a lot of written stuff in the process :( Note to self: should write in notepad first! Will keep updating the OP. Seems like crappy vids are better than no vids at all, right? ;)
  • SLICK RICKSLICK RICK Joined: Posts: 1,118 ✭✭
    This really is great stuff. I've been working them in my game as much as possible. That nj.hk after the forward throw in the corner feels like christmas lol

    Is there any post oicho/super/ultra technology?
  • gutabogutabo Joined: Posts: 279
    EDIT: all the super setups plus other useful info has now been added to the OP.
  • SLICK RICKSLICK RICK Joined: Posts: 1,118 ✭✭
    Good shit man. I've always done a grounded mixup in these situations but now I'll work on your safe jumps for added pressure, especially after ultra 1 and cornered super. Thanks!
  • gutabogutabo Joined: Posts: 279
    Thanks slick, reading that(and what others have said before and PMed me) motivates me! It feels like xmas indeed!

    Ok, I've rewritten most of the fake crossup section, I have added annotations to ALL my published vids Honda-related(yeah even the unblockable ones) so you can "see" what's going on better and copied and pasted and revamped my previous post to the OP(so it has some new stuff there that's not in the original answer to slick rick).
  • gutabogutabo Joined: Posts: 279
    Well , since the crappy vids seem to be keeping people away from these findings I guess I'll have to borrow a proper capturing device and do all the vids again. Also it doesn't help that I have rewritten both OPs many times but few people seem to notice. If that's what it takes, I don't mind, it'll just take longer for me to do them, but still, real life issues are keeping me away from this. Maybe I'll get some text in there too, since seems like people don't like to read youtube annotations either. Any good app to make vids? I just use TMPGenc to edit my crappy vids...
  • ssjbrydonssjbrydon Jim Mora is my role model Joined: Posts: 4,341
    The original vids were fine with me. I think the other problem is the honda community is really small now since AE. I know there's quite a few of us who are using your technology though. I think my hardest part is setting up normal throws. I'm so used to not doing normal throws since oicho as much better range I find my self not even going for the setups.
    XBL - GOL Krucial B
  • Mr.SNKMr.SNK . . . . -B Joined: Posts: 1,809 mod
    This is amazing, you sir are doing the lords work. I learned something today! :O
    A article on how to get better at fighting games, give it a read you might learn something.
    http://shoryuken.com/blogs/mr-snk/learning-how-get-better-fighting-games-1456/#comments
    Random E.Honda footage/My Youtube page.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/MrSNK
  • gutabogutabo Joined: Posts: 279
    This is amazing, you sir are doing the lords work. I learned something today! :O
    Whoa, Mr.SNK,thanks! Also thanks for the sticky!(awwww yeeaaaaa) :D It's a shame I got sidetracked with IRL stuff. I hope you find some of this stuff helpful and that it helps you(and the honda army) get more wins!
  • 3nigmat1c3nigmat1c Labcoat Balrog Joined: Posts: 1,668 ✭✭
    Hey guys, since i kinda got into unblockables with my alt Gen, i found that you can practice/test unblockables if you record a dummy holding back. Since you can't set the dummy to auto-block since it cheats/just frame blocks. It might also be helpful to note how easy it is to human block your unblockable setups. From what I read, some unblockables have hitboxes that are really good, so it's very hard to impossible to just-frame block them, versus others.

    I think two to compare would be Gen's unblockable versus the twins against akuma's unblockable j.lk in the corner (i don't have much experience with it but i hear it's a bitch). Ken has one too.
    ...::: Pure_Knowledge :::...
    http://www.youtube.com/3nigmat1c

    "Does my opponent deserve my respect?"
  • MillerTimeMillerTime Joined: Posts: 12
    Greetings fellow Honda players, it's been a while!
    ...
    #3 - (midscreen) back throw, s.MP, jumping forwards HP/HK
    VIDEO HERE

    Good news! for the back throw midscreen you have a really, really good safe jump setup for characters with regular wakeup time that even works against SRKs! Due to honda's positioning, it'll make ALL shoto SRKs whiff or be blocked. For Sagat, Cammy and Blanka replace the s.MP with a throw whiff. Rejoice!
    ...
    Continued on the post below!

    Thanks again for sharing all of the safe jump setups. It helped a lot! But I was wondering if its possible to do a safe jump with honda without using a throw, instead using a knockdown such as cr.HK or an ochiyo throw. Or are his moves to slow to compensate? Or would the best thing to do after a knockdown is bait out a reversal then punish?

    Also I noticed with the #3 safe jump setup, at least with AE 2012 if I used HK instead of HP with Ryu it would trade...is this really the case or am I doing it incorrectly?
    PSN ID: eltrouble
    SF4AE2012: E.Honda
    SF2ST: E.Honda
  • ScarGfxScarGfx Theory Fighter Joined: Posts: 63
    I found this today, don't know if anyone has posted it yet. (corner only) super (doesn't matter how you combo into it) wiff fierce ochio, jf.forwad - It will crossup and you cannot autocorect DP with ryu and probably the other shotos although i haven't texted it, on top of this he can't use cr.forward to go under it.
  • gutabogutabo Joined: Posts: 279
    Thanks again for sharing all of the safe jump setups. It helped a lot! But I was wondering if its possible to do a safe jump with honda without using a throw, instead using a knockdown such as cr.HK or an ochiyo throw. Or are his moves to slow to compensate? Or would the best thing to do after a knockdown is bait out a reversal then punish?

    Also I noticed with the #3 safe jump setup, at least with AE 2012 if I used HK instead of HP with Ryu it would trade...is this really the case or am I doing it incorrectly?
    Thanks to you too! About a setup using a sweep, check setup #5. An oicho throw does not give you enough time to do a safe jump afterwards, sadly. And I'll get the ver.2012 soon and I'll test all the setups on it.
    I found this today, don't know if anyone has posted it yet. (corner only) super (doesn't matter how you combo into it) wiff fierce ochio, jf.forwad - It will crossup and you cannot autocorect DP with ryu and probably the other shotos although i haven't texted it, on top of this he can't use cr.forward to go under it.
    Nice! Actually, going by frames, it's almost the same as my backdash + c.MP setup but IIRC(I'm still at work, lol) your setup has (I think) a frame less but it's easier than mine, I'll test it this weekend and I'll get back to you ASAP!


    Also I've noticed that Mr. SNK is doing after U1 a backdash and a jump forward, I want to test that too! Seems like it might have too many frames to be a real safe jump but it might be a "safest safe jump"(so most reversal attacks go the wrong way) or a good way to set up ambiguous jumping attacks(like, if it's an early jumping attack it won't crossup but if it's a deep jumping attack it will crossup) or fake crossups... Can't wait to test it! I can only hope that he found his inspiration for that in this thread :p
  • MillerTimeMillerTime Joined: Posts: 12
    Thanks to you too! About a setup using a sweep, check setup #5. An oicho throw does not give you enough time to do a safe jump afterwards, sadly. And I'll get the ver.2012 soon and I'll test all the setups on it.


    Nice! Actually, going by frames, it's almost the same as my backdash + c.MP setup but IIRC(I'm still at work, lol) your setup has (I think) a frame less but it's easier than mine, I'll test it this weekend and I'll get back to you ASAP!


    Also I've noticed that Mr. SNK is doing after U1 a backdash and a jump forward, I want to test that too! Seems like it might have too many frames to be a real safe jump but it might be a "safest safe jump"(so most reversal attacks go the wrong way) or a good way to set up ambiguous jumping attacks(like, if it's an early jumping attack it won't crossup but if it's a deep jumping attack it will crossup) or fake crossups... Can't wait to test it! I can only hope that he found his inspiration for that in this thread :p

    Yeah...I felt Like a noob when I realized you already have setup #5 and the ochiyo notes...whoops. Thanks for clearing that up. And I can't wait to see what you guys find out. Here here for Honda Technology :D
    PSN ID: eltrouble
    SF4AE2012: E.Honda
    SF2ST: E.Honda
  • ScarGfxScarGfx Theory Fighter Joined: Posts: 63
    I've finished a video showing some of these safe jumps in action, this video very much goes hand in hand with the thread and all of the credit goes to gutabo and his sick work.

  • gutabogutabo Joined: Posts: 279
    Also I noticed with the #3 safe jump setup, at least with AE 2012 if I used HK instead of HP with Ryu it would trade...is this really the case or am I doing it incorrectly?
    Sorry for taking soo long to answer this but I couldn't test it before. It still works, most likely you were doing it wrong. I tested it with all shotos and it still works with all of them(and the rest of the cast). Because of its range, jumping HP stuffs more light SRKs tho.
    Nice frametraps vid
    Nice vid! Honda has plenty of frametraps against late techers tho... I posted a bunch here(with more stuff regarding Honda's kicks):
    Close MK can be used as a frame trap for jumps(like against an opponent trying to jump after a c.LK) since it's a 5 framer like c.LK and has a higher hitbox so if you're not perfect with your timing you can hit them too after their jump startup(4 frames for most of the cast). Close MK also combos from c.LK, for whatever it's worth and what has already been mentioned.
    Crouching MK and close HK can be used to frametrap too(kinda like close s.HP and c.MP but faster) after a very close blocked s.LP(+3) or c.LK(+2). All of them(plus close s.MP) can be followed with a c.LP into special and/or super afterwards if you score a counterhit except for s.HK in which case the c.LP is character specific.
    Warning: don't use against SRK/SPD mashers!
    I've finished a video showing some of these safe jumps in action, this video very much goes hand in hand with the thread and all of the credit goes to gutabo and his sick work.
    Whoa dude. Just because you warned me beforehand doesn't mean I wasn't blown away! Thank you so much! Also you've given me the motivation to finish editing all the vids I did last year and post them to complete the data!
  • ScarGfxScarGfx Theory Fighter Joined: Posts: 63
    Snip

    Thank you for your kind words, i only hope i did your work justice mate. Cheers again for letting me use your setups!
  • CuongsterCuongster Joined: Posts: 19
    Amazing work mate ! The unblocable VS Ryu is definitely a great tool !

    I can't really us it in real match because I never use the normal throw. I should add this technology to my Honda...

    Thanks for this thread Gutabo !
  • popemdpopemd Joined: Posts: 213
    YES!!! I love this ish man. I NEVER look at matchups and/or safe jump setups so you can only imagine my struggles with this one dimensional character. I love using Honda because he has so many bad matchups and he fits my personal play style, but it is a up-hill battle most of the time, for me.

    Quick question though, this still works in AE 2012 right?
    Support New Honda youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/EHondaNation

    XBOX LIVE: HADdaHUSTLA
  • Yo maxYo max Mash Hard Joined: Posts: 7
    e honda is my favorite play besides rye. thanks for the video
  • gutabogutabo Joined: Posts: 279
    Quick question though, this still works in AE 2012 right?
    Yeah, it all works in AE 2012, you just have to add Gouken' super and Dudley's HP Jet Upper to the moves that can't be safe jumped.

    Sorry for the delay in adding content and replying in general, I've had my hands full with this wonderful thing:
    CgMRhs.jpg
  • ssjbrydonssjbrydon Jim Mora is my role model Joined: Posts: 4,341
    Yeah, it all works in AE 2012, you just have to add Gouken' super and Dudley's HP Jet Upper to the moves that can't be safe jumped.

    Sorry for the delay in adding content and replying in general, I've had my hands full with this wonderful thing:
    CgMRhs.jpg


    Oh shit man congratulations! All these honda players having babies!
    XBL - GOL Krucial B
  • AngerusAngerus To headbutt or not to headbutt? Joined: Posts: 374 ✭✭✭
    Yeah, it all works in AE 2012, you just have to add Gouken' super and Dudley's HP Jet Upper to the moves that can't be safe jumped.

    Sorry for the delay in adding content and replying in general, I've had my hands full with this wonderful thing:
    CgMRhs.jpg
    Congrats man!!!
    GFWL: Angeluso , PSN: Angerus-1337, XBL: Ralenzo
    6 Times champion on http://www.nosoundgaming.org/tournaments
    Join our online tournaments!
  • stev0knev022stev0knev022 Pad Honda's Unite. Joined: Posts: 172
  • Mike RobertsonMike Robertson Joined: Posts: 743 ✭✭✭
    I hope some of you guys can help me out with this aspect because this is something I feel is really lacking from my game.

    It seems that most of the safe jumps are very situation-dependant, and require for the most part being in the corner after landing a throw. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I noticed you provided a list of the other moves and possible set ups that can occur from there, it just seems like the majority of them are after throws in the corner.

    Someone has explained to me that the moves added in while the opponent is laying on the ground is to ensure that your timing is 100% perfect. Does this not make it obvious to your opponent that you are going for a safe jump? Or does it not matter because it is a safe jump and no matter what they do you can't get hurt?

    Is the idea of the safe jump to make your opponent whiff a move and allow you to punish, or is it to actually hit them with the jumping mk/hp/hk? or both?

    The way I have been playing up until now is when I land an oicho throw, I will do a cross up mk but I have noticed a lot of characters can punish this, in fact, maybe all of them? I feel like certain characters cant. Is this a bad habit to get into? I noticed you wrote "too few frames to be a safe jump" so now I am kind of worried about it even though I have found a lot of success in using the technique. I find you are too close to whiff a command grab and build meter from that range and wakeup time. However, after a throw, you have lots of time to whiff a command grab and build meter, do you think its more advantageous to go for the safe jump and potentially do damage?

    this is a lot to take in, I wonder what the best way for me to adapt this all into my gameplay is. I really like the look of that first one, Neutral Jump HK from a backthrow into the corner, I feel like I get that set up more frequently. It just seems hard to remember all of the normals you need to to inbetween to get perfect timings... I normally just do timings from "sense"... I am a musician I am really used to playing by feel and not necessarily always hitting notes or buttons in this case but it seems this is why people utilize plinks as well to 100% ensure they will hit the correct timing. Also trying to remember every single character that these set ups work on seems like a lot to remember too!
    XBL: Rawbertson
    SF2 SF3 SF4
    HONDA
  • gutabogutabo Joined: Posts: 279
    Hey man you're lucky I was just checking the forums! :D I have something cooking that hopefully I'll post soon...
    It seems that most of the safe jumps are very situation-dependant, and require for the most part being in the corner after landing a throw. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I noticed you provided a list of the other moves and possible set ups that can occur from there, it just seems like the majority of them are after throws in the corner.
    Most(if not all) safe jumps require a hard knockdown and Honda has very few of those. Safe jumps are not limited to corner situations but most of them require a throw. Yes, fake crossups and unblockables do require a throw towards the corner to be practical. There are more unlisted fake crossup/unblockable setups midscreen that are not really practical at all hence the "not listed" part. What's listed is what can be used consistently (and abused) with the correct timing.
    Someone has explained to me that the moves added in while the opponent is laying on the ground is to ensure that your timing is 100% perfect. Does this not make it obvious to your opponent that you are going for a safe jump? Or does it not matter because it is a safe jump and no matter what they do you can't get hurt?
    Yes, they are a huge "this is a safe jump" sign and in most cases they can't do anything about it. That's the inherent nature of safe jumps in this game, as you can see at the beginning of the OP. Opponents can try to evade the pressure using a backdash, focus absorb then backdash, blocked anti air focus attack dash cancel... and then you can option select s.HK/throw/dash or jump(both require a read) but you're putting them under (mostly)safe pressure. You can get hurt by 3 frame attacks, still active special throws with strike invincibility and some supers/ultras, I have listed most of them in the (unfinished, soon to be finished lol)fake crossup section. But the important thing is that you can keep a dominant position and force the opponent to make a mistake or guess, and even mix the safe jump with option selects. Honda has poor option selects without charge tho(and arguably even with charge). More below.
    Is the idea of the safe jump to make your opponent whiff a move and allow you to punish, or is it to actually hit them with the jumping mk/hp/hk? or both?
    Well, you won't be hitting a decent opponent with a safe jump unless it's an ambiguous/fake crossup(or an unblockable). The general idea is to keep pressure with the lowest risk possible while doing(or trying to do) some damage. Meter being burned by the opponent while trying to escape is a bonus.
    The way I have been playing up until now is when I land an oicho throw, I will do a cross up mk but I have noticed a lot of characters can punish this, in fact, maybe all of them? I feel like certain characters cant. Is this a bad habit to get into? I noticed you wrote "too few frames to be a safe jump" so now I am kind of worried about it even though I have found a lot of success in using the technique. I find you are too close to whiff a command grab and build meter from that range and wakeup time. However, after a throw, you have lots of time to whiff a command grab and build meter, do you think its more advantageous to go for the safe jump and potentially do damage?
    Yes, it's a bad habit. That crossup will whiff against most of the cast and they have lots of time to anti air you(exactly 19 frames). Your success doing that is proportional to your opponent's matchup knowledge(or input lag, lol). Whiffed oicho is 50 frames, that means that after an oicho you're giving the opponent 24 frames to punish you so that's a no-no. I used to go for safe jumps whenever I could, mixing it up with oichos and baits so my advice would be to keep the pressure going. I might be wrong in some situations/against some matchups tho!
    this is a lot to take in, I wonder what the best way for me to adapt this all into my gameplay is. I really like the look of that first one, Neutral Jump HK from a backthrow into the corner, I feel like I get that set up more frequently. It just seems hard to remember all of the normals you need to to inbetween to get perfect timings... I normally just do timings from "sense"... I am a musician I am really used to playing by feel and not necessarily always hitting notes or buttons in this case but it seems this is why people utilize plinks as well to 100% ensure they will hit the correct timing. Also trying to remember every single character that these set ups work on seems like a lot to remember too!
    I'm also a musician! There's nothing intuitive in most links so blame the game for that! You can look at them as frame math and try one setup at a time. Hell, take only the ones you are going to use, I've seen people mostly using the forward throw one(with c.MK) and the back throw one(with c.MP), in either case both midscreen and in the corner. They are not needed at all, they're just a tool you can use if you can add them into your gameplan/strategies. Look at all the good hondas that don't use/need them at all! Altho If you use them while you're playing in a stream I'm watching you're going to make me smile :D

    I'll be doing some long overdue updates soon if my son lets me ;)
  • 3nigmat1c3nigmat1c Labcoat Balrog Joined: Posts: 1,668 ✭✭
    Someone has explained to me that the moves added in while the opponent is laying on the ground is to ensure that your timing is 100% perfect. Does this not make it obvious to your opponent that you are going for a safe jump? Or does it not matter because it is a safe jump and no matter what they do you can't get hurt?

    Gutabo hit it on the head, but i'd like to add that, setups also give you something else: respect. Although this isn't always true, once someone notices that you CAN do a safe jump. When you jump in on them, they may be less likely to attempt a punish (e.g. your setup with cross-up mk), so you can open up your opponent more for simple mix-ups like empty jump throw, empty jump low etc. As with any fighting game you want to do your best to convert your advantages, so once you establish that you can do something they can do nothing about, you open other avenues of your gameplay strategy.

    Keep in mind i know VERY little about Honda's setups, but I'm familiar with the concept in general.
    ...::: Pure_Knowledge :::...
    http://www.youtube.com/3nigmat1c

    "Does my opponent deserve my respect?"
  • stev0knev022stev0knev022 Pad Honda's Unite. Joined: Posts: 172
    Midscreen off front throw honda has a setup with jump rh that is very ambiguous to block and makes dps whiff, problem is i cant figure how to time it precisely, as far as i can tell immediately after throw you move forward slightly (approx 3 squares in training room) then pause for a second and do jump rh. You can also use jump mk to hit behind at this range and that should beat reversal dp's.

    Atm its kinda of in exact although from i what i can tell its very effective against sagat and ken, it also works on ryu but seems harder to time.
    360 dpad warrior.
  • sarif2soonsarif2soon Joined: Posts: 349 ✭✭
    hello, i'm collecting kara throw data for all of AE 2012's characters, i don't know how much of the information here is outdated, so i wanted to ask: what's honda's best kara throw?
    all of the data will be compiled into a list including normal throw ranges, added ranges and kara throw ranges.
  • gutabogutabo Joined: Posts: 279
    Got a hold of an xbox and a capturing device, I'll have to update lots of stuff on the OP and on the youtube descriptions of these new vids but for now I'll leave these to you guys:
    Corner safe jump setup after a throw using taunt #3:


    Midscreen Ambiguous Safe Jump Part 1: As A Crossup (18+ minutes long)


    Midscreen Ambiguous Safe Jump Part 2: Not A Crossup


    Corner Ambiguous Safe Jump: To Crossup Or Not To Crossup


    Random Combos/Punishes (leftovers)


    Yes I know all these should've been made 2 years ago, I'M SORRY :(
  • gutabogutabo Joined: Posts: 279
    More old stuff in new, clearer vids:

    Sweep safe jump setup redone!


    Fuzzy guard!
  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 2,824 ✭✭✭
    Wow, nice work, Gutabo !!. I like especially that combo on Guile: far st Lp xx M Hands - st Lp xx Ex Hb. That's really good.
    SSF4 AE v. 2012 - 2013 Tier List: http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/6905/a2oo.jpg

  • gutabogutabo Joined: Posts: 279
    Emanuelb wrote: »
    Wow, nice work, Gutabo !!. I like especially that combo on Guile: far st Lp xx M Hands - st Lp xx Ex Hb. That's really good.
    Thanks, it's also a good way to push him to the corner (if he's not already there) while making some nice damage;)
    Fuzzy Guard Part two! (with leftovers from part 1:Viper, Adon and Juri) This one works on 29 characters(shotos included)! :D
  • ssjbrydonssjbrydon Jim Mora is my role model Joined: Posts: 4,341
    Once again thanks Gutabo for bringing the good stuff!
    XBL - GOL Krucial B
  • gutabogutabo Joined: Posts: 279
  • EmanuelbEmanuelb Joined: Posts: 2,824 ✭✭✭
    Very nice. So for this UB we need to get Seth to the corner and need a throw...
    SSF4 AE v. 2012 - 2013 Tier List: http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/6905/a2oo.jpg

  • gutabogutabo Joined: Posts: 279
    Easiest Fake crossup EVER. Please try it and let me know if you have any problem doing it:
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