AEMAKOTO Guide and Q&A: Ask all your questions here!

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  • HitomiHitomi Rindoukan Blue Belt Joined: Posts: 1,125
    Thank you very kindly. I'll change the U1 section.
    Formerly Robot Makoto
  • the mossad manthe mossad man EVIL MAKOTO Joined: Posts: 1,467
    OH MAN!!! This is fucking AWESOME This is definately going into one of the OPs (if RM didn't beat me to it :P)

    EDIT - One question though - What is the deal with the face up/face down thing? Are those for quick rises?
    "I call this the lowest common denominator theory"..." you want to do as little as possible necessary to still win. And rather than an embarrassment, this is a major skill."

    S.Kill
  • farplanerfarplaner Joined: Posts: 636
    Oh yeah, that page has all kinds of set ups already there, lol
  • HitomiHitomi Rindoukan Blue Belt Joined: Posts: 1,125
    OH MAN!!! This is fucking AWESOME This is definately going into one of the OPs (if RM didn't beat me to it :P)

    All yours, brother.
    Formerly Robot Makoto
  • farplanerfarplaner Joined: Posts: 636
    EDIT - One question though - What is the deal with the face up/face down thing? Are those for quick rises?

    Simply, to show the animation frames of a character waking up from face down or face up. So like, after backthrow, the character is down for a certain amount of frames, and then add the amount of frames of the animation to get the full frames count.

    I think the Makoto set up page isn't the most up to date because it is missing information about the invincible frames bug/Yang/Gen data, so like after backthrow, it should have been this:

    After backthrow:
    59F: Adon (1F invincible bug)
    60F: Others, "Neutral stick" Gen (with 1F invincible bug), "Neutral stick" Yang (with 18F invincible bug)
    61F: Blanka, Dhalsim, Claw, Sagat
    65F: Hakan

    And after d.HP:
    45F: Others, Yang (2F invincible bug)
    46F: Sagat, Cammy, "Neutral stick" Gen (with 1F invincible bug)
    47F: Blanka
  • HitomiHitomi Rindoukan Blue Belt Joined: Posts: 1,125
    Oh yeah, that page has all kinds of set ups already there, lol

    Could you quick translate the set-ups?
    Formerly Robot Makoto
  • farplanerfarplaner Joined: Posts: 636
    After back throw:
    - walk back a bit then jump MK
    - dash x3 -> s.MP
    - dash x3 -> karakusa (will miss with perfect timing)
    - dash x2 -> meaty lp oroshi
    - mp fukiage whiff -> s.MP
    - mp fukiage whiff -> karakusa (will miss with perfect timing)
    - f.HK hold -> s.MP
    - f.HK hold -> karakusa
    - f.MP -> n.jump safe jump

    After cr.HP
    - forward jump attack whiff -> grab after landing
    - forward jump -> cr.lk after landing

    After ex oroshi
    - dash -> n.jump -> s.MP after landing
    - dash -> lp -> n.jump safe jump
    - dash -> n.jump attack whiff -> mk/hk karakusa after landing
    - dash -> f.MP -> meaty mp oroshi
    - hp fukiage whiff -> s.MP (will miss with perfect timing)
    - dash x3 -> s.lk whiff -> HK karakusa
    - HK whiff -> n.jump MK (Ryu/Akuma only)

    After U1
    - walk forward a little then jump MK
    - dash -> f.HK hold -> jump attack (mid screen only)
    - forward jump attack (corner only)
    - lv3 focus (corner only)
    - f.HK hold -> s.MP
    - f.HK hold -> karakusa (corner only)

    After f.HK
    - dash -> HP oroshi
  • HitomiHitomi Rindoukan Blue Belt Joined: Posts: 1,125
    Thanks.
    Formerly Robot Makoto
  • BlaughableBlaughable Formerly S0nicBooom Joined: Posts: 111
    This is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks Farplaner!!
  • DiendDiend Play to learn. Joined: Posts: 106
    I love you guys so much. Thanks for all the useful information.
  • KouryuuKouryuu Joined: Posts: 553
    Been looking into picking up Makoto for fun (at least for now). This thread is gdlk.
  • ZuranthusZuranthus Joined: Posts: 307
    these are the double Fukis from a crumble mid screen i tested
    mid screen after a Fukiage from a crumble state

    HP Fukiage follow-up
    Abel
    Balrog
    C.Viper
    Cammy
    Dan
    Dhalsim
    Evil Ryu
    Gen
    Gouken
    Guy
    Ibuki
    Ken
    Makoto
    Rose
    Ryu
    Sagat
    Sakura
    Seth
    T.Hawk
    Vega
    Yang
    Yun

    EX Fukiage or kara HP Fukiage follow-up
    Adon
    Akuma
    Bison
    Blanka
    Chun Li
    Cody (no 2*EX, maybe kara EX??)
    DeeJay
    Dudley
    E.Honda
    El Fuerte
    Fei Long
    Guile
    Hakan
    Juri
    Oni
    Rufus
    Zangief
    double EX Fuki works on everyone except Cody, if someone can test a kara EX Fuki on him it would be great, can't do that shit on pad
    in short you can HP Fukiage or kara HP Fukiage every character, check list for which is needed
  • AEMAKOTOAEMAKOTO Seichusan Godanzuki Joined: Posts: 71
    Added Zuranthus's testing to the combo section, and I did an extensive play-by-play on Tsurugi pressure. Next up for me is the Karakusa section! Expect that ... Monday or Tuesday. I'm going away for the weekend.

    - Robo.
  • AEMAKOTOAEMAKOTO Seichusan Godanzuki Joined: Posts: 71
    Ok so 20,000 Characters is the limit for each post... i just lost a long ass post. So angry...

    MM
  • AEMAKOTOAEMAKOTO Seichusan Godanzuki Joined: Posts: 71
    Hey guys, i'm not sure why, but when I'm putting spoilers in now they are duplicating themselves. Can anyone help explain this??

    MM
  • AEMAKOTOAEMAKOTO Seichusan Godanzuki Joined: Posts: 71
    I don't know what's wrong with the coding, sorry.

    Did a pretty big section on how to land the Karakusa. It's somewhat opinionated ... I won't sugar coat it, LOL. I'll finish up the section on Monday.

    - Robo.
  • veegeveege Joined: Posts: 105
    these are the double Fukis from a crumble mid screen i tested
    mid screen after a Fukiage from a crumble state

    HP Fukiage follow-up
    Abel
    Balrog
    C.Viper
    Cammy
    Dan
    Dhalsim
    Evil Ryu
    Gen
    Gouken
    Guy
    Ibuki
    Ken
    Makoto
    Rose
    Ryu
    Sagat
    Sakura
    Seth
    T.Hawk
    Vega
    Yang
    Yun

    EX Fukiage or kara HP Fukiage follow-up
    Adon
    Akuma
    Bison
    Blanka
    Chun Li
    Cody (no 2*EX, maybe kara EX??)
    DeeJay
    Dudley
    E.Honda
    El Fuerte
    Fei Long
    Guile
    Hakan
    Juri
    Oni
    Rufus
    Zangief
    double EX Fuki works on everyone except Cody, if someone can test a kara EX Fuki on him it would be great, can't do that shit on pad
    in short you can HP Fukiage or kara HP Fukiage every character, check list for which is needed

    I can get double fukis to work on Cody. I think the post-crumple setup matters though.

    If you're partial to the crumple, backdash, foward dash, mp fuki setup... then the only thing that hits him is the kara-EX-fuki. But if you're partial to the crumple, wait till knees hit the floor, mp fuki setup... then you can do a kara HP fuki and it should hit.

    EDIT:

    I just realized what you were actually asking. YES, double ex fuki works on Cody, but the last one must be kara-ed.

    Here's a vid me doing it just to confirm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGTo0ZH0f0U CHECK OUT THAT RANGE

    I wouldn't recommend doing it though. With the lvl2 FA, damage/stun is 386/582 for 3 bars. The non-EX double fuki combo deals out 326/522 for just 1 bar.
    CFN ID: mr_veege
  • UltimoUltimo Joined: Posts: 73
    Amazing thread!

    I don't quite understand Fukikusa - the hcb hp+hk. What does this do? Increase the range of karakusa or something?
  • TheKaiten7TheKaiten7 Joined: Posts: 1,829
    The fukikusa let's u karakusa them if they decide to stay on the ground or fuki them if they jump is the quick answer.
  • veegeveege Joined: Posts: 105
    K, did some testing on post-sweep OS's (demonstrated by vryu and peqqi and others) on the entire cast. Pretty sure the list is accurate.

    Legend
    OS sweep = cr.hp --- dash x2 --- cr.lp OS cr.HP
    OS f.MK= cr.hp --- dash x2 --- cr.lp OS f.MK

    notes: Use OS sweep to work on your oki. Use OS f.MK for hit confirm into HK (Target combo 2) for damage/stun of 190/300 or to work on mix-ups (like, instead of hit f.MK~HK, do f.MK into EX kara on mashers/blockers, or whatever). Mix-ups are inherently risky; still needs experimenting to see if useful during actual matches.

    Characters that get hit only by OS sweep
    Gouken
    Akuma
    Abel
    Bison/Dictator
    Fuerte
    Vega/Claw
    Adon

    Characters that get hit only by OS f.MK
    Ibuki
    Makoto
    Gen
    Dan
    Dhalsim
    C. Viper
    Deejay
    Guy
    Evil Ryu
    Fei

    Characters that get hit by both OS sweep and OS f.MK
    Ryu
    Ken
    Honda
    Sakura
    Oni
    Yun
    Juri
    Sagat
    Cody
    Hakan
    Yang
    Guile
    Blanka
    Zangief
    Rufus
    T. Hawk

    Characters that get hit by neither OS sweep nor OS f.MK
    Dudley
    Seth
    Chun
    Balrog/Boxer
    Rose

    Notes:
    For Dudley, Seth, and Boxer, I'd use OS f.MK. When f.MK comes out, it won't whiff (they'll have to block it). So you'll be in range to continue pressure. Chun Li and Rose-- with their godlike backdashes-- are completely out of range; the f.MK whiffs. So they can backdash again to safety. Back to square 1. (There has to be an ultra2 option select that could be useful against these chicks).

    Hope this helps! If you see any errors, please correct it. Also, can someone test out possible OS's for people that can teleport on wakeup. I tried this on Vega/Claw: sweep, dash x2, c.LP OS f.HP. If Vega just stands there or blocks, c.LP, s.LP, etc comes out. If Vega backflips, f.HP comes out for a hard punish. Problem is the timing, f.HP sometimes comes out too early. Needs more testing....
    CFN ID: mr_veege
  • ApheraAphera Joined: Posts: 99
    One thing we should try to do in this is not refer to other setups; i.e. from super unless we either specifically write the setup or link to it. that will make readability a lot better. For instance in the Fei post you talk about the crossup tsurugi but don't say how to do it.
  • CymaticsCymatics Default Joined: Posts: 40
    This is shaping up to be a great guide, the information is really solid. However I think it would be great to have a section detailing safe jump set-ups. Can anyone list a few here, just as a quick reference? Would be a huge help.
  • UltimoUltimo Joined: Posts: 73
    The fukikusa let's u karakusa them if they decide to stay on the ground or fuki them if they jump is the quick answer.
    Ah so it's an option select? Every time I try it, only karakusa comes out. Can you please explain it a bit more?
  • HitomiHitomi Rindoukan Blue Belt Joined: Posts: 1,125
    Do this: set the training mode dummy to jump once you've started to hit them with a s.HP xx HP Hayate. Right afterward, dash forward and do the input 63214+HK+HP. You will whack your opponent with a Fukiage. It might be character specific, since everyone gets pushed back a little differently.
    Formerly Robot Makoto
  • AEMAKOTOAEMAKOTO Seichusan Godanzuki Joined: Posts: 71
    Added veege's OS list. Finished up the Karakusa section. I might do something on safe jumps soon. :)

    - Robot M.
  • UltimoUltimo Joined: Posts: 73
    Do this: set the training mode dummy to jump once you've started to hit them with a s.HP xx HP Hayate. Right afterward, dash forward and do the input 63214+HK+HP. You will whack your opponent with a Fukiage. It might be character specific, since everyone gets pushed back a little differently.
    LOL that's amazing! Thanks for showing me =)
  • FactureFacture Rindoukan Student Joined: Posts: 98
    Thanks for all the hard work on this guide to everyone that is participating in it's creation. I know there is plenty more to do but I would love to see a section on hayate cancels down the road. I figure there are more important sections but I'm just getting to the point of working them into my game and would love to hear some of the Makoto masters' strategies on when to use them etc... I'm searching the forum but info is pretty spread out.
    Street Fighter IV AE: Makoto (sub: Cody)
    Skullgirls: Valentine/Peacock (possible 3rd: ?)
  • HitomiHitomi Rindoukan Blue Belt Joined: Posts: 1,125
    All in a new section now.

    Blockakusa, to keep my like. :)
    Formerly Robot Makoto
  • farplanerfarplaner Joined: Posts: 636
    Blockakusa! I like the term (and the move!), so appropriate too.
  • AEMAKOTOAEMAKOTO Seichusan Godanzuki Joined: Posts: 71
    I did a proper section on Hayate Canceling. You may sense I don't like s.MP xx HC outside of ending a block string anymore, heh.

    - Robo.
  • ZuranthusZuranthus Joined: Posts: 307
    someone needs to test the cLP, cLP, sLP, cHP combo on the cast (standing & crouching)
    & of course by default if this combo works U1 could replace cHP

    so far i know it works on Gen, Balrog & Guy
    i'd test it myself but frankly it's quite hard to pull off for me, plinking on pad is murder
  • kioshikioshi Methodical Player of The Game Joined: Posts: 34
    someone needs to test the cLP, cLP, sLP, cHP combo on the cast (standing & crouching)
    & of course by default if this combo works U1 could replace cHP

    so far i know it works on Gen, Balrog & Guy
    i'd test it myself but frankly it's quite hard to pull off for me, plinking on pad is murder

    I'll take this on and make a list if no one else wants to take a shot at it.
  • veegeveege Joined: Posts: 105
    someone needs to test the cLP, cLP, sLP, cHP combo on the cast (standing & crouching)
    & of course by default if this combo works U1 could replace cHP

    so far i know it works on Gen, Balrog & Guy
    i'd test it myself but frankly it's quite hard to pull off for me, plinking on pad is murder
    is it enough to just set Makoto to record? or is the combo's timing and range character specific?
    CFN ID: mr_veege
  • veegeveege Joined: Posts: 105
    k kioshi, it's yours!
    CFN ID: mr_veege
  • ZuranthusZuranthus Joined: Posts: 307
    is it enough to just set Makoto to record? or is the combo's timing and range character specific?
    good question, really don't know...but i always do everything by hand
  • TheKaiten7TheKaiten7 Joined: Posts: 1,829
    Unless I'm executing it wrong c.lp,c.lp,s.lp doesnt work on ryu. I think it works on hakan as well tho. Nvm got c.lpx2>s.lp to hit once on Ken so possible on ryu? Havent been able to hit it again to try hp tho.
  • MikeySupremeMikeySupreme 2Dbasedgod Joined: Posts: 215
    Good shit guys, first page is looking on point and lots of good info. Keep it up. :3
  • Godly-EffectGodly-Effect Godly D. Wolfwood Joined: Posts: 397
    Since I guess this would be the new thread for asking questions, here is mine.
    How do you beat retards?
    The people who can actually I do fine against, hell even Mago, but pure stupidity and retardation stops me like a wall.
    Unless I'm executing it wrong c.lp,c.lp,s.lp doesnt work on ryu. I think it works on hakan as well tho. Nvm got c.lpx2>s.lp to hit once on Ken so possible on ryu? Havent been able to hit it again to try hp tho.
    Is it a link the S.LP after the C.LP? Cause if so that would be a 1 frame link I believe.
    GT: GodlyEffect
  • ZuranthusZuranthus Joined: Posts: 307
    yes, it's a link, if you chain it on Guy the sLP whiffs...i don't think it's 1 frame though, i can get it consistently, it's the cHP that's a bitch to link
  • TorpidTorpid Joined: Posts: 98
    Since I guess this would be the new thread for asking questions, here is mine.
    How do you beat retards?
    The people who can actually I do fine against, hell even Mago, but pure stupidity and retardation stops me like a wall.

    You have to read them fast. I think this is the biggest thing to do. If you know they aren't playing the same game you are, you can account for it.

    If you are talking about online matches, you normally don't go through many games against the same person in ranked. The first 30 seconds will be your measuring stick to figure out if they going to play wild or not.

    I try to decide what kind of person they are. If they are the desperate type, I watch out for uppercuts, supers, and ultras. I use more safe jumps and get ready to tech throws after my safe jumps. If they mash jab, I try to use frame traps. If they like to throw, look for tsurugi opportunities. If they are just unreadable like Valle, then that's a different case because he probably just has a better mind game that you do going on.

    You gotta remember that the "retards" aren't following the same mentality that you are and won't fall for the tricks that normally work on people. I say "retards" loosely as they may actually be reading you well and doing the things you just don't think a normal person would. If they truly aren't playing smart, you just have to keep it simple and get the damage where you can. In some matches, I just trip/oroshi them constantly then block when they have their ultra. They'll eventually give away the match to you. Just don't expect them to be easily conditioned to block.
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