AEMAKOTO Guide and Q&A: Ask all your questions here!

AEMAKOTOAEMAKOTO Seichusan GodanzukiJoined: Posts: 71
We will be working on organizing this forum. It will take awhile, but it will get done. I've been going through all posts that have come up since June 7th. I've been sorting most of it out, and will try to organize all of this stuff into one coherent thread. I will need help.

If you see a post that you think applies to AE Makoto, please do not repost it in here. Instead, just send it via IM to this account. More on this later.

UPDATE - OP reserved spots are set. If it turns out we don't need this many, we can delete them later. I'm going to get started now. Any questions let me know!
For those who know the password, please feel free to add OPs. I might do a bunch of them just to get us started.

Thanks!

-the mossad man
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Comments

  • AEMAKOTOAEMAKOTO Seichusan Godanzuki Joined: Posts: 71
    Before and After

    This section will contain original properties of Makoto's normals, specials, super, and ultras, and contrast each one with AE Makoto's normals, specials, supers, and ultras.
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  • AEMAKOTOAEMAKOTO Seichusan Godanzuki Joined: Posts: 71
    Before and After (Continued)
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    Makoto's Footsies
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    Makoto's Mix-ups
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  • AEMAKOTOAEMAKOTO Seichusan Godanzuki Joined: Posts: 71
    Makoto's Mix-ups, part 2
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    Makoto's Mix-ups, part 3
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  • Robot MakotoRobot Makoto Rindoukan Blue Belt Joined: Posts: 1,100
    Reserved, just in case.
    "Where are you goin', when are you comin' home?" - Orguss OP. Listen to it.

    Firm supporter of mashing st.HK with Makoto.
  • AEMAKOTOAEMAKOTO Seichusan Godanzuki Joined: Posts: 71
    TSURUGI CROSS UPS REFINED
    New Backthrow Setups:
    (Important Note: To make things easier for all Makoto players, I discovered that you don't ALWAYS have to do hayate feint. In fact, in almost all setups, you can replace hayate feint with a s.lp or a c.lp, or even a s.mp. This makes things SO MUCH EASIER for players that have problems with hayate feints on the fly. An example of a popular setup would be: backthrow > s.lp > c.mk > MK tsurugi instead of backthrow > hayate feint > c.mk > mk tsurugi)
    Spoiler:

    [SIZE=12px]Late Tsurugi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaG2lkTYuNM
    Neutral LK Tsurugi Whiff Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KC9kwYZfqtc
    MK Tsurugi Setup Without Feint C.MK (proof): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0i3PDcud9k
    Vortex Example on Juri: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O15pbogG5U
    Vortex Example on Juri 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqjSeQkjYmM
    Vortex Example on Fei Long: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC83H7drY-s (he would have been stunned a long time ago)
    Vortex Example on Blanka: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utvWtN7REDc
    Vortex Example on Blanka 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agOXnlLZigY
    Vortex Example on Bison: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oudzBMCTcs
    First Time Using It In A Match: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3G21Z1Kh5U[/SIZE]
  • DivemanDiveman Loli-zoning Joined: Posts: 2,648
    Option selects ans safe jumps/okizeme setups vs each char as well would help
  • AEMAKOTOAEMAKOTO Seichusan Godanzuki Joined: Posts: 71
    OAR:
    Crossup Tsurugi After EX Oroshi:

    (Important Note: A lot of these setups have f+mp > c.mp as the documented setup. However, this usually only applies after a karakusa > s.hp xx ex oroshi. Well, a lot of your ex oroshis may come off of a crossup tsurugi, and to fix this problem, simply replace f+mp with f+lk. It works everytime. So, one more time: after a backthrow crossup tsurugi setup, replace f+mp with f+lk in c.mp setups. Also, some setups will note out 'tested off of setup'. Don't worry, that's just notes pointed out for odd looking setups. ALL Dash setups work after any ex oroshi)
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    Notes: You'll notice a few setups that utilize Late Tsurugi. I'm sure you guys know about it, but I didn't; There is a certain point in your jump arc when you do a tsurugi, even the LK and MK tsurugi hitboxes take form of the HK Tsurugi hitbox. It's really late into the jump, borderline passing your opponent. To me, it's an entirely new type of tsurugi. I've uploaded an example of it. Do not be afraid of it. When looking at it for the first time, it looks really hard. It is NOT. In fact, it's one of the easiest setups and I wish it worked on more characters.

    Crossup J.HP Setups:
    (Important Note: Some of these setups are very immature in form, because when I started looking for these, I was in a totally different direction than I ended up looking in the long run, so a VERY small amount of characters have some walkback force setups, but I scrapped the idea early on. If you like them, I can find more. Also noted is that in some examples of the vortex, j.hp after an ex oroshi is much easier on certain characters than crossup Tsurugi, such as Rose, Guile, T Hawk and Sagat)
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    I intend on finding more setups off of backthrow for j.hp, but xu.hp was far from the center of my attention. I've been using this vortex in matches with salt-inducing levels of consistency. It's really fun to get a backthrow or ex oroshi and once your opponent tries to adjust to the vortex, it opens up Makoto's playbook tenfold. A lot of players that eventually make adjustments become meaty fodder with s.mp, which gives me a free meaty link into s.hp, and then into whatever. Or a karakusa. I think, when you're not stunning your opponents, you'll enjoy the amount of options that the threat opens up for Makoto. Unfortunately, I couldn't post my HK Tsurugi Followups, my EX Hayate followups or my blockstrings (stand/crouch) into xu tsurugi followups, but that's because they're not done, and I wanted to get the bulk of this vortex out now. I feel the ex oroshi part was the most important thing because it provides an unrivaled synergy off of EX Oroshi when you score a crossup Tsurugi.

  • DivemanDiveman Loli-zoning Joined: Posts: 2,648
    well, we now have training mode, so Ive been posting a lot of setups vs certain characters that cuts all their options, so, I dont know if here is a good place to put them or just leave them in the matchup thread (which is not updated btw)
  • the mossad manthe mossad man EVIL MAKOTO Joined: Posts: 1,467
    well, we now have training mode, so Ive been posting a lot of setups vs certain characters that cuts all their options, so, I dont know if here is a good place to put them or just leave them in the matchup thread (which is not updated btw)
    Here is a good place especially if they are new setups that didn't work in SSIV... but any that aren't in a sticky already are good (I'm compiling all of the ones I can find in the stickies). Anything can help.
    "I call this the lowest common denominator theory"..." you want to do as little as possible necessary to still win. And rather than an embarrassment, this is a major skill."

    S.Kill
  • D4RK ONIOND4RK ONION FA-Tool Developer Joined: Posts: 53 ✭✭
    Wow wow wow wow. Whoever the members are behind this (I reckon I could guess a few!) you guys are amazing.

    PS: maybe add damage and stun values to the normals under the frame ad/disadvantage?
  • AEMAKOTOAEMAKOTO Seichusan Godanzuki Joined: Posts: 71
    (vryu inside):
    I've updated feilong strategy part.

    Next are yun and yang.
  • v-ryuv-ryu Joined: Posts: 1,032 ✭✭✭
  • the mossad manthe mossad man EVIL MAKOTO Joined: Posts: 1,467
    Wowowow thanks vryu! Great info!
    "I call this the lowest common denominator theory"..." you want to do as little as possible necessary to still win. And rather than an embarrassment, this is a major skill."

    S.Kill
  • D4RK ONIOND4RK ONION FA-Tool Developer Joined: Posts: 53 ✭✭
    In yun section, the first video refers to "some tricks vs. Fei Long", might wanna fix that :)
  • the mossad manthe mossad man EVIL MAKOTO Joined: Posts: 1,467
    UPDATE:

    I finished Comman Normals, and added the Quick Question/Answer section. In this section I took all of the threads that have popped up since AE came out, removed the questions from them, and posted the question with the most relevant answer(s). Those threads are no obsolete. I'll continue working on the "normal's" section, but after that i'm going to compile all of the top player's videos since AE came out (vryu, lovelynara, Haitani, shiro, etc) in HD ONLY and organize them into one easy to manage post. Will update later!

    EDIT - I will of course make exeptions for vryu videos... those are too good to pass up even if its in SD :D:D:D
    EDIT - Added RM's Hayate Cancel info to most of the normals. I still have to do jumping and crouching normals, and I'll add the HC info when I do crouching normals.
    "I call this the lowest common denominator theory"..." you want to do as little as possible necessary to still win. And rather than an embarrassment, this is a major skill."

    S.Kill
  • AEMAKOTOAEMAKOTO Seichusan Godanzuki Joined: Posts: 71
    Robot Makoto in the hizzy, dogs! Word up like a mother! Updated the combo section a little bit; I'll finish up the hit-confirm section later. I plan to expand a little on the normals eventually, and maybe do a landing the Karakusa section and a very fleshed out frame-trapping section soon.
  • BlaughableBlaughable Formerly S0nicBooom Joined: Posts: 104
    Robot Makoto in the hizzy, dogs! Word up like a mother! Updated the combo section a little bit; I'll finish up the hit-confirm section later. I plan to expand a little on the normals eventually, and maybe do a landing the Karakusa section and a very fleshed out frame-trapping section soon.
    Would love a thorough frame trap write up!
  • v-ryuv-ryu Joined: Posts: 1,032 ✭✭✭
    i film with my iphone!!! top quality video xD
  • AEMAKOTOAEMAKOTO Seichusan Godanzuki Joined: Posts: 71
    Frame trap section is in. I took all the applicable, useful frame traps I could think of and wrote a little summary on them. I also did a little write up for Ultra 1 and fixed a few spelling errors, and I changed the topic title since I think we all know we can post as of now :)

    - Robo.
  • Robot MakotoRobot Makoto Rindoukan Blue Belt Joined: Posts: 1,100
    Oh, and I plan to get a Tsurugi section going soon.
    "Where are you goin', when are you comin' home?" - Orguss OP. Listen to it.

    Firm supporter of mashing st.HK with Makoto.
  • D4RK ONIOND4RK ONION FA-Tool Developer Joined: Posts: 53 ✭✭
    In c.mp* you have a c.lp image in the first bit

    /reading everything >_<
  • the mossad manthe mossad man EVIL MAKOTO Joined: Posts: 1,467
    Robot Makoto=Awesomeness! Great writeups!
    "I call this the lowest common denominator theory"..." you want to do as little as possible necessary to still win. And rather than an embarrassment, this is a major skill."

    S.Kill
  • D4RK ONIOND4RK ONION FA-Tool Developer Joined: Posts: 53 ✭✭
    Also, I'm pretty sure Adon gets up at the same time as everyone else now, so in U1 his frames of recovery should be under the "everyone else", right? And I think one of the twins gets up a frame faster than everyone else.
  • Robot MakotoRobot Makoto Rindoukan Blue Belt Joined: Posts: 1,100
    Also, I'm pretty sure Adon gets up at the same time as everyone else now, so in U1 his frames of recovery should be under the "everyone else", right? And I think one of the twins gets up a frame faster than everyone else.

    True. I'd like very much if we could get the values for AE, somehow. Maybe those of us who know Japanese could look up their sources?
    "Where are you goin', when are you comin' home?" - Orguss OP. Listen to it.

    Firm supporter of mashing st.HK with Makoto.
  • farplanerfarplaner Joined: Posts: 632
    http://www20.atwiki.jp/ssf4/pages/2200.html

    After backthrow:
    59F: Adon
    60F: Others
    61F: Blanka, Dhalsim, Claw, Sagat
    65F: Hakan

    After d.HP:
    45F: Others
    46F: Sagat, Cammy
    47F: Blanka

    After EX oroshi:
    68F: Others
    69F: Sagat, Cammy
    70F: Blanka

    After U1:
    89F: Others
    90F: Sagat, Cammy
    91F: Blanka

    After F.HK:
    46F: Others
    47F: Sagat, Cammy
    48F: Blanka

    After HP oroshi:
    73F: Others
    74F: Sagat, Cammy
    75F: Blanka

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    Note: Compare it to their general wake up frame data: (combine it with above data to make your conclusion)

    http://www20.atwiki.jp/ssf4/pages/1121.html#id_1c623b12

    It states:
    Face Down:
    33F (+2F): Blanka, Yang (2F invincible bug)
    32F (+1F): Sagat, Cammy, "Neutral stick" Gen (with 1F invincible bug)
    31F (+0F): Others

    Face Up:
    20F Adon (1F invincible bug)
    21F Others, "Neutral stick" Gen (with 1F invincible bug), "Neutral stick" Yang (with 18F invincible bug)
    22F Blanka, Dhalsim, Claw, Sagat
    26F Hakan
  • Robot MakotoRobot Makoto Rindoukan Blue Belt Joined: Posts: 1,100
    Thank you very kindly. I'll change the U1 section.
    "Where are you goin', when are you comin' home?" - Orguss OP. Listen to it.

    Firm supporter of mashing st.HK with Makoto.
  • the mossad manthe mossad man EVIL MAKOTO Joined: Posts: 1,467
    OH MAN!!! This is fucking AWESOME This is definately going into one of the OPs (if RM didn't beat me to it :P)

    EDIT - One question though - What is the deal with the face up/face down thing? Are those for quick rises?
    "I call this the lowest common denominator theory"..." you want to do as little as possible necessary to still win. And rather than an embarrassment, this is a major skill."

    S.Kill
  • farplanerfarplaner Joined: Posts: 632
    Oh yeah, that page has all kinds of set ups already there, lol
  • Robot MakotoRobot Makoto Rindoukan Blue Belt Joined: Posts: 1,100
    OH MAN!!! This is fucking AWESOME This is definately going into one of the OPs (if RM didn't beat me to it :P)

    All yours, brother.
    "Where are you goin', when are you comin' home?" - Orguss OP. Listen to it.

    Firm supporter of mashing st.HK with Makoto.
  • farplanerfarplaner Joined: Posts: 632
    EDIT - One question though - What is the deal with the face up/face down thing? Are those for quick rises?

    Simply, to show the animation frames of a character waking up from face down or face up. So like, after backthrow, the character is down for a certain amount of frames, and then add the amount of frames of the animation to get the full frames count.

    I think the Makoto set up page isn't the most up to date because it is missing information about the invincible frames bug/Yang/Gen data, so like after backthrow, it should have been this:

    After backthrow:
    59F: Adon (1F invincible bug)
    60F: Others, "Neutral stick" Gen (with 1F invincible bug), "Neutral stick" Yang (with 18F invincible bug)
    61F: Blanka, Dhalsim, Claw, Sagat
    65F: Hakan

    And after d.HP:
    45F: Others, Yang (2F invincible bug)
    46F: Sagat, Cammy, "Neutral stick" Gen (with 1F invincible bug)
    47F: Blanka
  • Robot MakotoRobot Makoto Rindoukan Blue Belt Joined: Posts: 1,100
    Oh yeah, that page has all kinds of set ups already there, lol

    Could you quick translate the set-ups?
    "Where are you goin', when are you comin' home?" - Orguss OP. Listen to it.

    Firm supporter of mashing st.HK with Makoto.
  • farplanerfarplaner Joined: Posts: 632
    After back throw:
    - walk back a bit then jump MK
    - dash x3 -> s.MP
    - dash x3 -> karakusa (will miss with perfect timing)
    - dash x2 -> meaty lp oroshi
    - mp fukiage whiff -> s.MP
    - mp fukiage whiff -> karakusa (will miss with perfect timing)
    - f.HK hold -> s.MP
    - f.HK hold -> karakusa
    - f.MP -> n.jump safe jump

    After cr.HP
    - forward jump attack whiff -> grab after landing
    - forward jump -> cr.lk after landing

    After ex oroshi
    - dash -> n.jump -> s.MP after landing
    - dash -> lp -> n.jump safe jump
    - dash -> n.jump attack whiff -> mk/hk karakusa after landing
    - dash -> f.MP -> meaty mp oroshi
    - hp fukiage whiff -> s.MP (will miss with perfect timing)
    - dash x3 -> s.lk whiff -> HK karakusa
    - HK whiff -> n.jump MK (Ryu/Akuma only)

    After U1
    - walk forward a little then jump MK
    - dash -> f.HK hold -> jump attack (mid screen only)
    - forward jump attack (corner only)
    - lv3 focus (corner only)
    - f.HK hold -> s.MP
    - f.HK hold -> karakusa (corner only)

    After f.HK
    - dash -> HP oroshi
  • Robot MakotoRobot Makoto Rindoukan Blue Belt Joined: Posts: 1,100
    Thanks.
    "Where are you goin', when are you comin' home?" - Orguss OP. Listen to it.

    Firm supporter of mashing st.HK with Makoto.
  • BlaughableBlaughable Formerly S0nicBooom Joined: Posts: 104
    This is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks Farplaner!!
  • DiendDiend Play to learn. Joined: Posts: 106
    I love you guys so much. Thanks for all the useful information.
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