Street Fighter II & "official" canon

SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
Post anything Street Fighter related here (Not vs games, since they are not canon)

In the first World Warrior tournament (Street Fighter I) we all pretty much know that Ryu won. In the second World Warrior tournament Guile won. Guile was going to kill Bison but his wife stopped him from doing it. Right after this happens Akuma comes from out of nowhere and does the Shun Goku Satsu and kills M. Bison. So M. Bison is officially dead. So who wins SFIII? The Bison we see in SF2 is Bison's second body that his scientists created for him. His real body was the one in SFA3. Supposedly at the end of SFA3 Bison and Rose fused so that Bison loses half of his negative energy, thus making him weaker in SF2. Sagat is still alive during SF III but choses not to enter the SF III tournament until Ryu can purge his dark side. Sagat only wants pure fights. If Capcom makes SF4 we'll probably see Sagat in SF4.

That was some of the stories from the official canon. In the storyline we know Bison is weaker in SF2, but as we all know that this is the complete opposite in gameplay. Both Bison and Vega suffer from SNK Boss Syndrom in SF2 World Warrior. I was playing World Warrior (US 910206)the other day and noticed that the AI controlled characters (especially the 4 bosses) were much harder and did not fall for some of the patterns in later versions of World Warrior. Here's and example: IF you do the statue on Vega with Guile then Vega just slides constantly. However, if you do the statue with Guile in the version then Vega will either fierce punch you or jump kick you and you get hit. Also I have noticed that when Vega wins the second time and takes off his mask he is supposed to yodel, but in this version when he takes off the mask he has the Chun Li laugh. I was like, WTF?!?

Also, I was Ryu VS AI controlled Blanka. Blanka executes his electricity, I am standing next to him and perform a Hadouken. Normally Ryu would get hit with the electricity, but in this version it shows Ryu in his Hadouken animation and right before the fireball if you hold back the Hadouken will cancel and he will block the electricity!

Ken is also much more harder. He throws less fireballs and does not do random Shoryukens.

It took me a while to beat Vega. Now I can understand when people said that they have never seen anyone beat Vega back in the day. They were probably playing this version.

The question is: is this version a prototype or something?
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Comments

  • Murt!Murt! Grindin... Joined: Posts: 702
    1) Nobody is sure who won SFII. It was either Chun or Guile.
    2) Alex won SFIII.
    3)You were probably playing one of the many bootleg versions.
    RIP Jeffery Gregory - See you at the Crossroads, man.
    (\ /)
    ( . .)
    c(")(")
  • LiSyaoranLiSyaoran Go For Broke! Joined: Posts: 1,442
    Alex won SF3 but Oro would of if he didn't leave...
    BF: Olivia, Watson
    SSF4: Seth, Abel
    3s: Yang, Alex, Gouki
    GMotW: Terry, Grant
  • Murt!Murt! Grindin... Joined: Posts: 702
    ^^^ Yeah, he and Alex were supposed to fight in the finals, but Oro left after he beat Ryu because that was the only thing he entered the tournament for.
    RIP Jeffery Gregory - See you at the Crossroads, man.
    (\ /)
    ( . .)
    c(")(")
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Check out these stories and the relation of who won the tournaments, etc...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagat

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akuma_%28Street_Fighter%29

    on Akuma's story it says something about Guile being in the finals.

    Here's Bison:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._Bison
  • Saotome KanedaSaotome Kaneda Watch your back Joined: Posts: 5,332 mod
    This actually belongs in the Comic area, as they have fun dealing with continuity issues.

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  • AbhiAbhi Best Team EVER Joined: Posts: 1,550 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    THIS is the shit I have been looking for
    I'm like an Hadoken

    I'm like Down Right Fierce
  • FuguTabetaiFuguTabetai Joined: Posts: 41
    Capcom-sanctioned manga

    There are lots of interesting things in Japan. I was surprised to find some officially-sanctioned manga in the SF universe. One of the funnier ones is the Capcom Gals Comic Anthology - I've got the first two volumes, I have no idea if they've put out more. I translated the first volume, but it's really just a collection of shorts by a bunch of different artists.

    Here's a torrent of the whole thing: http://capcom.mangatranslation.com/capcom.mangatranslation.com.torrent
    Or my site for it: http://capcom.mangatranslation.com/

    thought it would be interesting to people on this thread...
  • Murt!Murt! Grindin... Joined: Posts: 702
    Jion_Wansu wrote:
    Check out these stories and the relation of who won the tournaments, etc...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagat

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akuma_%28Street_Fighter%29

    on Akuma's story it says something about Guile being in the finals.

    Here's Bison:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._Bison

    Those are all NOWHERE near true to the real canon. Read Tiamat's guide at GameFaqs for the real thing.
    RIP Jeffery Gregory - See you at the Crossroads, man.
    (\ /)
    ( . .)
    c(")(")
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Jion_Wansu wrote:
    snip[/url]

    Your source material is incorrect. Check this thread http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173 and you'll eventually find the plot guide with the right information.
  • vasili10vasili10 Forever waits Joined: Posts: 4,394 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    There are lots of interesting things in Japan. I was surprised to find some officially-sanctioned manga in the SF universe. One of the funnier ones is the Capcom Gals Comic Anthology - I've got the first two volumes, I have no idea if they've put out more. I translated the first volume, but it's really just a collection of shorts by a bunch of different artists.

    Here's a torrent of the whole thing: http://capcom.mangatranslation.com/capcom.mangatranslation.com.torrent
    Or my site for it: http://capcom.mangatranslation.com/

    thought it would be interesting to people on this thread...

    There were four volumes released by Shinseisha; the one pictured on your page is the latest one that came out 6 years ago.

    Officially sanctioned doesn't necessarily mean canon. There were many commercialized manga and plenty of fan-made doujinshi about the SF universe, but only a handful can take credit for certain elements becoming canon, and as far as I know only one is completely official because its story was written directly by Capcom.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I will simply never believe that Guile won SFII. It does not_make_sense.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Y2Dane wrote:
    I will simply never believe that Guile won SFII. It does not_make_sense.

    Join the club. Razza Frazza weak ass character took out Bison. :tdown:
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    RYU WON EVERY TOURNEMENT BUT 3 HE DIDN'T WIN BUT HE BEAT ALEX!

    ABASI!
    :bluu:
  • Murt!Murt! Grindin... Joined: Posts: 702
    Ryu didn't win number 2. I'm sick of people saying that he did.
    RIP Jeffery Gregory - See you at the Crossroads, man.
    (\ /)
    ( . .)
    c(")(")
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Too lazy to look up Tiamat's again, but I think Chun Li supposedly won SF2.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Sano wrote:
    Capcom has never said who won SF2.

    Come on Sano, everyone knows DeeJay got the win.
  • SanoSano SRKSANO on PS4 Joined: Posts: 12,972 mod
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    the true winner of the SF2 tournament was Akuma considering he kill bison and bison was the host and boss of the tournament. so screw guile and chunli, ladies and gentlemen, our winner is Akuma.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Guile or Chun Li have never had any connection to Akuma...At all.
    Whereas Akuma is known to have killed Bison.

    A rarely addressed posibility is Guile dying at the hands of Akuma.
    Guile is one of the characters that dissapears after sf2, and regardless of what you think of him, he is the most likely character to have made it to Bison in the tournament.

    So either he fought akuma after akume chipped Bison or he walked away (like a pussy) after seeing Bison dead.

    EDIT: yeah, i typed Bison instead of Akuma by accident. Obviously Guile wanted to avenge Charlie and CHunli her dad. My bad.
  • coco_jcoco_j Joined: Posts: 330
    I really always thought it was Ryu back in the day. And the idea of Guile or Chunners winning is just ridiculous. In fact the whole thing is stupid, what the fuck happenned to Sagat and Ryu's fight?
  • Murt!Murt! Grindin... Joined: Posts: 702
    tragik wrote:
    Guile or Chun Li have never had any connection to Bison...at all. /

    Wrong. Chun-Li lost to Bison in SFA2.
    RIP Jeffery Gregory - See you at the Crossroads, man.
    (\ /)
    ( . .)
    c(")(")
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    coco_j wrote:
    I really always thought it was Ryu back in the day. And the idea of Guile or Chunners winning is just ridiculous. In fact the whole thing is stupid, what the fuck happenned to Sagat and Ryu's fight?

    Ah yes, the ever popular "Ryu decided to leave theory".

    The only reason people seem to discount a Ryu winning outcome is because aparantly Guile has to kill Bison so he can go back to his family. I never understood this. If I'm Guile and I want Bison dead yeah I'd like to do it myself, but if Sagat, Ryu, or Ken beats Bison and then Gouki kills him I don't understand why Guile would be upset. If Guile wants Bison dead I really don't think he cares how it happens, just as long as it's painful and Charlie can "rest in peace" or whatever. In my eyes Guile can return to his family and live happily ever after as long as Bison is dead. If Ken, Sagat, or Ryu (who are all better fighters then Guile and Chun Li) beat Bison and he's killed by Gouki it shouldn't matter as long as the bastard is dead.

    Again the Ryu leaving theory is plausible as he doesn't give a damn about winning the title, but if he leaves Sagat and Ken leave too. If these 3 leave there is no one left who has anywhere near the juice to take out Bison. Yes Bison is weaker then he used to be, but he is still the most powerful one there. Psycho Crusher still looks scary as all hell.

    And after the live action movie I refuse to see Guile win against Bison. It makes me feel dirty thinking about it.
  • TiamatRoarTiamatRoar The Grumpy Surly One Joined: Posts: 1,092
    Ryu likely didn't fight Sagat in SF2. Sagat's ending states this. Of course, this assumes Sagat's ending happens, but if you pretend none of the SF2 endings happened, then you literally have absolutely NOTHING to work with.
  • GainGain nakaka bagut Joined: Posts: 506
    the way i figure from reading what jap cap has given us, Akuma theroretically won... no one else was able to beat Vega because Akuma probably took him out before anyone had a chance... the few who probably were, didn't make it to the fight... Ryu was probably busy fighting Sagat, Guile was probably about to fight Akuma and Chun prob had her hands full with Balrog (vega us)

    As for SFIII, it's canon that Ryu defeats Alex and Ryu gets defeated by Oro... there's no SF game after third strike, so they probably haven't declared a winner... probably porbably blah blah.,,..

    as for SF4?... well, Ryu will be suped up from training with Oro, he also controls his evil intent but he gets murdered by the real star of street fighter and all of video games....

    Joe

    ...

    damn right!1
    doki doki uppercut...
  • SanoSano SRKSANO on PS4 Joined: Posts: 12,972 mod
    Gain wrote:
    the way i figure from reading what jap cap has given us, Akuma theroretically won... no one else was able to beat Vega because Akuma probably took him out before anyone had a chance... the few who probably were, didn't make it to the fight... Ryu was probably busy fighting Sagat, Guile was probably about to fight Akuma and Chun prob had her hands full with Balrog (vega us)

    As for SFIII, it's canon that Ryu defeats Alex and Ryu gets defeated by Oro... there's no SF game after third strike, so they probably haven't declared a winner... probably porbably blah blah.,,..

    as for SF4?... well, Ryu will be suped up from training with Oro, he also controls his evil intent but he gets murdered by the real star of street fighter and all of video games....

    Joe

    ...

    damn right!1

    Ryu and Sagat didn't fight in SF2. It's the only other thing that Capcom lets out about SF2 aside from Gouki(Akuma) killing Vega(M.Bison in the US).

    What happened during the SF3 Tournament Officially - Oro defeats Ryu. Ken defeats Sean and then drops out after hearing Ryu lost. Oro drops out to go look for Ryu who he now wishes to train. This clears the path for Alex to be the champion, most likely Gill let him when.

    SF3 Third Strike - This game represents what happened after the SF3 Tourney and not during. Here Ryu defeats Alex and Ken.

    At some point Ryu and Hugo fought since Capcom claims that Hugo was able to stand after a Shin Shoryuken. It is unknown when this happened but it most likely happened during the SF3 Tourney.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    This is what I read from the SF Eternal and I'll basically sum it up:

    SF2
    Most likely that Ryu did not win the tournament; due to a small fact that all Ken wanted to do was enter the tournament win and then go get hitched which is what happened to him after all. I can believe that this happened because the two students of Ansatsuken have had somewhat even tallies of who beat who and whatever tournament Ryu participates in, Ken's gotta get dibs on the higher tally.

    So, that's the most likely reason why Sagat would drop out of the tourney. If his purpose for training was defeated and then left; he just has to train harder and wait.

    So...to answer who won SF2...no one. The sponser/host (Bison) dies. Without a sponser or anything like that...who ever still has hold of the money (or the title of the strongest) can bounce for all they care. (Besides, Barlog bankrupts the whole organization anyway)

    However, for those who just need some closure just watch the Animated Movie, that's as close as you get to even figuring out who wins SF2.

    SF3
    Alex - Wins by Default
    Gill lets him win after fighting him a bit. Kinda like the Sagat and Dan thing.
    Ryu loses to Oro
    Ken wins against Sean

    Later, Ryu beats Alex
    Alex goes on search to find and fight Ryu again
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I kinda doubt Ken would refuse to marry Eliza if he didn't win the tournament. Ken went to the tournament to rekindle his rivalry with Ryu, not specifically to win.

    And if you're going by the win record thing then it's also more likely that Ryu beat Ken. Ken beat Ryu in Alpha 2. During SF 3 Ryu states that he has a better win record against Ken. For this to be true he kinda has to beat Ken during SF2, otherwise Ryu's only wins against Ken are not documented and took place before SF 1, or in between tournaments and we'll never hear about them.

    I don't know, just random thoughts.

    Bison probably just kicked the snot out of Guile and then Gouki leveled his ass from behind, just for kicks. And as Gouki demon warps away Guile hears, "Yo Kool-aid!!"
  • SanoSano SRKSANO on PS4 Joined: Posts: 12,972 mod
    No Ryu officially defeated Ken in SF3 Third Strike. This was stated by Capcom. There is no reason for you to speculate about it. It's in Tiamatroar's SF Plot Guide. While SF Eternal Challenge is cool and all because it's in English it doesn't come close to having all of the information the Japanese All About Capcom books have where the information of Ryu defeating Ken in SF3TS comes from.

    Ryu and Ken have always had friendly matches, they never go all out against each other. Ken won in SFZ2(Ken's ending) and no one knows what happened between the two during SF2.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Sano wrote:
    No Ryu officially defeated Ken in SF3 Third Strike. This was stated by Capcom. There is no reason for you to speculate about it. It's in Tiamatroar's SF Plot Guide. While SF Eternal Challenge is cool and all because it's in English it doesn't come close to having all of the information the Japanese All About Capcom books have where the information of Ryu defeating Ken in SF3TS comes from.

    Ryu and Ken have always had friendly matches, they never go all out against each other. Ken won in SFZ2(Ken's ending) and no one knows what happened between the two during SF2.

    True, but I never said anything about Ken defeating Ryu in SF3 series. I kinda figured it was common knowledge that Ryu and Ken fought (friendly matches) and Ryu won against Ken in SF3 (TS).

    Has Capcom officially stated that Gouken's dead? I mean I've read and heard that he was knocked over a cliff and his body was never found and something about that he could negate the Shun Goku Satsu much like Gen (forgot the actual explanation but if I remember from Tiamat's FAQ it had something to do with 'void'='nothingness'). Speaking of which...I wonder how the comic and the new anime movie will depict that move. I think I saw in the HK (Hong Kong) comics that it looked like a sort of combo or uppercut (but then again I only liked the HK comics for their designs not their stories).
  • vasili10vasili10 Forever waits Joined: Posts: 4,394 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Ryuujinha wrote:

    Has Capcom officially stated that Gouken's dead? I mean I've read and heard that he was knocked over a cliff and his body was never found and something about that he could negate the Shun Goku Satsu much like Gen (forgot the actual explanation but if I remember from Tiamat's FAQ it had something to do with 'void'='nothingness'). Speaking of which...I wonder how the comic and the new anime movie will depict that move. I think I saw in the HK (Hong Kong) comics that it looked like a sort of combo or uppercut (but then again I only liked the HK comics for their designs not their stories).

    Gouken has been officially stated to be dead. We don't know how he got killed but Gouki did do him in, because he tells Ryu in Z2 that he'll perish the same way. Whether it was with the SGS like Goutetsu or Gouki just overpowered him finally because he could possibly defeat the SGS like Gen, we don't know. There was no cliff involved, Gouken's final battle occurred in the dojo of Suzaku Castle.

    I'm curious as well to see how Udon will depict this battle.
  • JackTenrac!JackTenrac! Dollar Yen - Level 304 Joined: Posts: 2,808
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  • SanoSano SRKSANO on PS4 Joined: Posts: 12,972 mod
    Ryuujinha wrote:
    True, but I never said anything about Ken defeating Ryu in SF3 series. I kinda figured it was common knowledge that Ryu and Ken fought (friendly matches) and Ryu won against Ken in SF3 (TS).

    My comment was towards DoTheMove and not yourself. I misunderstood his comment, sorry about that.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Sano wrote:
    My comment was towards DoTheMove and not yourself. I misunderstood his comment, sorry about that.

    I know Ryu beat Ken during 3rd Strike. Ryuujinha stated Ken had to have the higher win tally and thus may have beat Ryu in SF2. I was just stating that Ryu apparantly has a better win record and thus Ken probably didn't beat him in SF2. If anything Ryu probably beat him if they did fight as Ryu again has a better win record then Ken.
  • coco_jcoco_j Joined: Posts: 330
    I wonder how Udon will handle it.... my guess is that Eliza will start to give birth, so Ryu who would be about to face Sagat has to leave with Ken.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Ryuujinha wrote:
    This is what I read from the SF Eternal and I'll basically sum it up:

    SF2
    Most likely that Ryu did not win the tournament; due to a small fact that all Ken wanted to do was enter the tournament win and then go get hitched which is what happened to him after all. I can believe that this happened because the two students of Ansatsuken have had somewhat even tallies of who beat who and whatever tournament Ryu participates in, Ken's gotta get dibs on the higher tally.

    So, that's the most likely reason why Sagat would drop out of the tourney. If his purpose for training was defeated and then left; he just has to train harder and wait.

    So...to answer who won SF2...no one. The sponser/host (Bison) dies. Without a sponser or anything like that...who ever still has hold of the money (or the title of the strongest) can bounce for all they care. (Besides, Barlog bankrupts the whole organization anyway)

    However, for those who just need some closure just watch the Animated Movie, that's as close as you get to even figuring out who wins SF2.

    SF3
    Alex - Wins by Default
    Gill lets him win after fighting him a bit. Kinda like the Sagat and Dan thing.
    Ryu loses to Oro
    Ken wins against Sean

    Later, Ryu beats Alex
    Alex goes on search to find and fight Ryu again


    Yeah, Akuma kills Bison in SF2 during the fight with Guile VS Bison.
  • mbthomasmbthomas Joined: Posts: 91
    Is there any documented relationship between Bison and Akuma?

    I mean everyone is so hung up on this akuma kills bison stuff, but honesty there is no direct evidence of anything other than a possible encounter in Alpha 3, where Bison dismisses the Dark Hadou as weak in comparison to the psycho power.

    But in terms of the relevant games - the street fighter 2 series - their is only the implication of the ancient one in bison's ending, a person who may or may not be akuma.

    All im saying is that the explanation that akuma killed bison is unsatisfactory because there is no established motive or basis in the games for doing so. The fact that he randomly jumped in and killed him is pretty anti-climactic and ill thought out unless there is some sort of underlying relationship or rivalry between the two. Does anyone have any knowledge of a substantial connection?
  • Murt!Murt! Grindin... Joined: Posts: 702
    Jion_Wansu wrote:
    Yeah, Akuma kills Bison in SF2 during the fight with Guile VS Bison.

    JESUS CHRIST! NOBODY KNOWS WHO WAS IN THE SF2 FINALS BESIDES AKUMA AND BISON!
    RIP Jeffery Gregory - See you at the Crossroads, man.
    (\ /)
    ( . .)
    c(")(")
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    mbthomas wrote:
    Is there any documented relationship between Bison and Akuma?

    I mean everyone is so hung up on this akuma kills bison stuff, but honesty there is no direct evidence of anything other than a possible encounter in Alpha 3, where Bison dismisses the Dark Hadou as weak in comparison to the psycho power.

    But in terms of the relevant games - the street fighter 2 series - their is only the implication of the ancient one in bison's ending, a person who may or may not be akuma.

    All im saying is that the explanation that akuma killed bison is unsatisfactory because there is no established motive or basis in the games for doing so. The fact that he randomly jumped in and killed him is pretty anti-climactic and ill thought out unless there is some sort of underlying relationship or rivalry between the two. Does anyone have any knowledge of a substantial connection?

    It does make sense if you use your imagination and know a little bit about Gouki.

    1) Gouki is always on the lookout for strong opponents to have a match against. Bison is extremely powerful, therefor he would definately attract Gouki's attention.

    2) Gouki may be irritated at Bison because he tried to mess with Ryu during Alpha 3. Gouki doesn't want anything happening to Ryu as he considers him to be a worthy opponent one day.

    3) Ryu was at the tournament. By now Ryu has given up on the Satsui no Hado, something that will definately piss off Gouki, as he wants a fight with Ryu under the influence of the Killing Intent. In an attempt to force Ryu back to using the Satsui no Hado, Gouki kills Bison, sending a message to Ryu that he is waiting for him.

    We don't know anything about the actual confrontation between Gouki and Bison, just that Capcom states that Gouki kills him. They could have actually had a real fight, but most of us just think he kills him outright because that's what it looks like in Super Turbo when he appears during the last fight. Ultimately we have no information about this event other than the outcome.
  • vasili10vasili10 Forever waits Joined: Posts: 4,394 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Adding to DoTheMove's points, we also know that Gouki took out Vega in SF2 exactly how you see it in SFZ3 Adon's ending, surprise from behind. AAC does confirm this in Adon's SFZ3 entry. We don't know if this happened before or after Vega fights his challenger.
  • RokisephRokiseph The Subtle Rushdowner. Joined: Posts: 534
    From what I know, i will now add a little of my thoughts to this. I believe the following actually makes sense from Akuma's Point of view. (Those of you who know me, know that I fight very hard for the subjects of Akuma/Gouki, Satsui no Hadou and the whole ansatsuken business. Ask Tiamat, he'll know, I bothered him a lot :D ).

    Now.

    Bison did visit Gouken once before to look for the true heir to 'Ansatsuken'. Or rather, Goutetsu's version of it. He went, he didn't find the 'True Heir' (Akuma at that point), so he just beat Gouken up. (Canon according to mook)

    Now I'm quite sure that after all this time, Akuma actually knows that Bison was looking for him. In my eyes, Bison has been a fly in the fighting community because he is interfering with the way of the warrior. He's cloning, using psycho power, messing up with possible fighting partners ala Ryu, doing all sorts of stuff that is disrupting EVERYONES normal life, while causing some evil to boot. (not canon nor uncanon, but rather obvious)

    So While Bison was looking for Akuma, I bet it is possible that (and this is not Canon, but Any right minded Akuma would do this...), Akuma was ALSO looking for a chance to kill Bison. NOT because Bison is a strong fighter, but because he really wants to remove this major irritant for the good of all Pure Fighting.

    Thus, he just waited for the right moment to kill off the bugger who has been disrupting the fighting scene and went off to have another day of training. Why didn't he do it sooner? Because then he would have to infiltrate the entire Shadoloo oganisation and that wastes time and energy. Why during the tournament? Cos he was exposed, in full view and it was easy for Akuma to just mingle in the crowd innit?

    Frankly Speaking Bison really has been a thorn in the fighting community's side. I think it's fitting that Mr. Fighting God himself solved the problem.

    And yes, read Tiamat's. Wikipidia is very unreliable when it comes to SF. I've posted canon stuff only to be taken down and replaced by 'fan translations'.
    K-Groove - "Under End" Team Todo, Haoh, Gief
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  • mbthomasmbthomas Joined: Posts: 91
    Why would Akuma try and kill to restore balance to the fighting community? The man has no sense of a community, he trains alone on a damn island.

    People always seem try to justify Akuma's actions. The man is an arrogant, power greedy, self absorbed, murdering bastard, who has knocked off several high profile martial artists. Yet he still gets the Sagat treatment from fans, despite the fact he has never had a sympathetic moment in his life. It's always claimed that he only kills worthy opponents, which i can accept but only because anything less is a waste of his efforts.

    Sagat was a honourable man - a national hero hero even. He then became twisted, similar to akuma, by revenge. You follow his game storylines up to alpha 2 and he is consistently badass. With the exception of an implied moment of clarity in the animated movie, the seeds for his face turn were not actually woven until alpha 3 where he went through a major character arc of losing to a few low tier characters and rejecting bison and shadowloo. It was at this point that he had clear and justifiable reasoning and a general awareness of others.

    Akuma has yet to experience a radical story arch, he has yet to commit a single act of altruism and is still basically a wild fighting animal.
  • SanoSano SRKSANO on PS4 Joined: Posts: 12,972 mod
    Gouki did save a child's life who fell off of his mountain once so he has had a sympathetic moment.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    You cant really judge Gouki as his situation is very unique. He is potentially the most powerful being on the planet. When you have god-like power and only one ambition in life (fighting the strongest opponents) you don't have any reason to be a good guy.

    Gouki is not really a bad person.

    He killed Gouken because he believed he was trying to pervert his beloved fighting style by teaching his students a toned down version of a Killing Style. Gouken had also defeated him once and Gouki had to settle with him. With Gouken out of the way Ryu also probably embraces the Satsui no Hadou quicker thus providing a better challenge to Gouki.

    He killed Goutetsu, but Goutetsu was teaching a Killing Style so how much of a good guy was he? Ansatsuken = Assassin's Fist. Why should we mourn for people who practice killing arts? They run the risk of getting killed by their very profession. Also passing on of tradition from master to student.

    Gen may not have been killed by Gouki, but it could have happened. Gen is a former assassin. Again no sympathy for assassins who use killing styles.

    Bison was an evil bastard. No sympathy for megolamaniacs who try to pervert your pet project. (Ryu)

    Gill wasn't neccessarily bad, but he isn't really all good either. He can't die anyway so Gouki gets off for attempting to kill him.

    Gouki only really fights people who are worthy of him and are able to except the consequences of being a serious fighter. You've never seen Gouki go after Dan, DeeJay, or Sakura have you? He obviously has some sort of moral code.
  • RokisephRokiseph The Subtle Rushdowner. Joined: Posts: 534
    Yes, What DoTheMove said.

    I'm not an Akuma 'Fanboy'. I'm just here to help people understand that Akuma is not 'Evil'. This + Satsui No Hadou being termed 'Murderous Intent' from the beginning has caused a lot of people to misinterpret this whole business of what the whole Warriors Code are for the different characters. A lot of misunderstanding in SF stems from Akuma, I mean come on, Bison represented a Major Story arc for almost half of the cast once. Akuma provided the personification of Satsui no Hadou, which Ran the other major story arc. And they both intermingled.

    Now don't misunderstand, I'm not out to say he's 'Good' either, nuh uh. Don't misunderstand me.

    Actually, Again, Ansatsuken is not 'THE' martial arts style they were learning. It's just a general term you use for moves that are potentially fatal. In our modern world there are such moves, as most of you know, and I personally had access to such techniques in simple Koppo. Does that make me or my Sifu/Sensei an Evil person for knowing the skill? No of course not.

    The move is merely a tool. The person who uses it determines if it is used for evil or good.

    Don't let stereotypical thinking cloud your minds. Look at Gouki and what he has done. Not who he might resemble from some other story who also had ultimate power.

    Now some of us just feel that Killing for Any reason at all is evil. So for people who feel this way, Akuma is evil. Simple as that. Others, such as those who can accept that it is fine if a fight between two fighter lead in death because they both accept it as a condition, won't view Akuma as evil, because they know it's simply a path the fighters chose, freedom of choice ya?

    Thats how it was with Gouken.
    Thats how it was for Goutetsu (Who Died SMILING, because he was as serious a fighter and who was also looking for enlightenment via the ultimate fight)
    Thats how it was for Gen, who was angry Akuma DIDN'T kill him.

    And there are differences in someone who kills a person who HAS LOST THE FIGHT, and Someone who kills TO WIN THE FIGHT. Thats how it is.

    I could elaborate, but I'm hoping people understand from just these alone. It's late and my brains messy.
    K-Groove - "Under End" Team Todo, Haoh, Gief
    "The End" Team R4 - Dan
    I tell Dan everyday "Just because you're passionate does NOT mean you're talented
  • SanoSano SRKSANO on PS4 Joined: Posts: 12,972 mod
    DoTheMove wrote:
    Gill wasn't neccessarily bad, but he isn't really all good either. He can't die anyway so Gouki gets off for attempting to kill him.

    I myself doubt Gouki vs. Gill actually happened but the game shows Gill could survive a Shun Goku Satsu, not that the fight itself even happened. For you to even see that ending the person who stands before Gill has to defeat Gouki (even at his Shin Level) and storyline wise that would be Alex, no way can Alex defeat Gouki. It's also a shout out to how Gouki performed SGS to Vega(M.Bison in the US) as well. Not to mention Gill vs. Gouki sounds even more random than Gill vs. Vega.

    Gill is not evil by his own standards, he's more of a diluted savior. He does believe he's trying to save the world from the apocalypse, so the ends justify the means. Think of how terrorists believe that they are doing God's work when they kill innocent people. Not that Gill is as bad as some real life terrorists mind you.
  • vasili10vasili10 Forever waits Joined: Posts: 4,394 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Rokiseph wrote:
    Thats how it was for Goutetsu (Who Died SMILING, because he was as serious a fighter and who was also looking for enlightenment via the ultimate fight)

    Actually, Goutetsu smiled when he saw how much Gouki overpowered him after Gouki embraced SnH for the first time. We don't know how Goutetsu looked as he died by the SGS, only his bloody corpse remained.
  • RokisephRokiseph The Subtle Rushdowner. Joined: Posts: 534
    Ah, if your source in saying that he smiled before he died is canon, then it is now known that he smiled after and before he died :D

    Actually, sentence for setence, this is what transpired in the last paragraph under Gouki of the SFZ mook ;

    "The last person standing on the vast field, was Gouki.
    Goutetsu had already drawn his last breath....but on his face was a smile. Beside him, stood the figure of Gouken."

    Of course, logically, one cannot smile AFTER one dies, so you would be right, but we know that his face was still smiling after that. So yeah, he died smiling. And yes, he was smiling because he had an heir in Gouki.
    K-Groove - "Under End" Team Todo, Haoh, Gief
    "The End" Team R4 - Dan
    I tell Dan everyday "Just because you're passionate does NOT mean you're talented
  • RokisephRokiseph The Subtle Rushdowner. Joined: Posts: 534
    BTW Tiamat if you're reading this, I need to contact you regarding the AAC translation of Ken witnessing Goukens death.
    K-Groove - "Under End" Team Todo, Haoh, Gief
    "The End" Team R4 - Dan
    I tell Dan everyday "Just because you're passionate does NOT mean you're talented
  • SanoSano SRKSANO on PS4 Joined: Posts: 12,972 mod
    Rokiseph wrote:
    BTW Tiamat if you're reading this, I need to contact you regarding the AAC translation of Ken witnessing Goukens death.

    Easiest way to alert Tiamat is to post in the Warrior's Fate Thread in the Fan Fiction forums.
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