Street Fighter II & "official" canon

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  • RokisephRokiseph The Subtle Rushdowner. Joined: Posts: 535 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Thanks :D
    K-Groove - "Under End" Team Todo, Haoh, Gief
    "The End" Team R4 - Dan
    I tell Dan everyday "Just because you're passionate does NOT mean you're talented
  • vasili10vasili10 Forever waits Joined: Posts: 4,394 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Rokiseph wrote:
    Ah, if your source in saying that he smiled before he died is canon, then it is now known that he smiled after and before he died :D

    Actually, sentence for setence, this is what transpired in the last paragraph under Gouki of the SFZ mook ;

    "The last person standing on the vast field, was Gouki.
    Goutetsu had already drawn his last breath....but on his face was a smile. Beside him, stood the figure of Gouken."

    Of course, logically, one cannot smile AFTER one dies, so you would be right, but we know that his face was still smiling after that. So yeah, he died smiling. And yes, he was smiling because he had an heir in Gouki.

    We have the same sources I'm sure, but the account in the SFZ mook doesn't talk of Goutetsu's death anymore, if it ever did at some point. Goutetsu's current death account is in the SFZ2 mook among other places, where it tells of him falling to the SGS and no smile recorded.
  • RokisephRokiseph The Subtle Rushdowner. Joined: Posts: 535 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Oh, okok

    Look under SFZ Mook page 80. Last paragraph.
    K-Groove - "Under End" Team Todo, Haoh, Gief
    "The End" Team R4 - Dan
    I tell Dan everyday "Just because you're passionate does NOT mean you're talented
  • vasili10vasili10 Forever waits Joined: Posts: 4,394 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Rokiseph wrote:
    Oh, okok

    Look under SFZ Mook page 80. Last paragraph.

    I know Rokiseph, you quoted it in the previous page. Instead of "drawn his last breath" though, I translated it as "his breath was dying out." In any case, whether he died or not in Gouki's SFZ account he still dies for sure in Gouki's SFZ2 account by the SGS. The SFZ story takes place shortly after the brothers' training is completed, and they see SnH for the first time, and Goutetsu smiles after Gouki's defeated him. The SFZ2 story happens shortly after Gouki has the SGS revealed to him, and unleashes it on Goutetsu.

    In any case, if both accounts are still canon (and SFZ2's has priority), Goutetsu had to have survived the battle which results in him smiling. Sure he was on the brink of death (nearly anybody would probably be after fighting Gouki), but with Gouken at his side at that moment, they managed to patch him up somewhat. (don't you just love where they place the "...." in the text)

    Thanks for pointing out my mistakes with Ken's story. I seriously don't remember how I connected "young one" to his text in AAC after looking at it again. My bad, I'll fix those.
  • RokisephRokiseph The Subtle Rushdowner. Joined: Posts: 535 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Oh, i had the idea that any changes in SFZ2 affects SFZ, because SFZ2 replaces SFZ. Which means that Gouki only fought Goutetsu once and killed him.
    K-Groove - "Under End" Team Todo, Haoh, Gief
    "The End" Team R4 - Dan
    I tell Dan everyday "Just because you're passionate does NOT mean you're talented
  • vasili10vasili10 Forever waits Joined: Posts: 4,394 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Rokiseph wrote:
    Oh, i had the idea that any changes in SFZ2 affects SFZ, because SFZ2 replaces SFZ. Which means that Gouki only fought Goutetsu once and killed him.

    If it's that way, then no smile, no Gouken being present either. Again, I don't believe the SFZ Gouki account is replaced by the SFZ2 Gouki account, because they don't have to happen at the same point in Gouki's life. Gouki says totally different things to his master before the fight begins in each account. Therefore I believe Gouki's fought both his brother and his master twice before they both die.
  • RokisephRokiseph The Subtle Rushdowner. Joined: Posts: 535 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    I recall the SFZ2 replacing SFZ storyline as being official. :D

    Other than that, any side tidbits that can be left unchanged would be left unchanged. In anycase, there wasn't mention of Gouki speaking to Goutetsu in the SFZ Mook.

    Oh well, if side tidbits are also to be removed, then it's sad that a lot fo the tidbits from SFZ mook will not be considered canon. Lucky for us, as it is, some of us consider these side tidbits still canon as long as they logically do not contradict any changes.

    DAN FOREVER!
    K-Groove - "Under End" Team Todo, Haoh, Gief
    "The End" Team R4 - Dan
    I tell Dan everyday "Just because you're passionate does NOT mean you're talented
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    vasili10 wrote:
    We have the same sources I'm sure, but the account in the SFZ mook doesn't talk of Goutetsu's death anymore, if it ever did at some point. Goutetsu's current death account is in the SFZ2 mook among other places, where it tells of him falling to the SGS and no smile recorded.


    Does anyone think Gouken could be in SF4 (If they ever make an SF4)
  • vasili10vasili10 Forever waits Joined: Posts: 4,394 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Canonwise no. He's been declared as long deceased ever since Super X came out. But the ball's always in Capcom's court.
  • vasili10vasili10 Forever waits Joined: Posts: 4,394 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Jion_Wansu wrote:
    ok, but I do know that Sagat is still alive. Apparentlu M. Bison (Vega) is dead, but Capcom can always say that Vega was near death at the hands of Gouki

    Correct, Sagat still waits for his match with Ryu.

    Capcom could bring back Vega of course, but they'd be pulling a complete 360 if they do. Before Zero 3 came out, Vega was stated to have survived SF2 and recuperating during SF3. After Zero 3 appeared, he was declared as offed for good.
  • ChrnoChrno Rasuke Joined: Posts: 273
    So...if all we had was one game, SFII from the 90s, no SFA...no Akuma...who would've won? lol...bad question in the middle of nowhere. I'm guessing, with that game alone, that would be insufficent?

    Hmm...I wonder how Udon will do the SFII tournament...if Chun Li and Guile both come up but get defeated by Bison (but I guess they could be declared winners since they fought against him) but Akuma kills Bison, than all in all, they could just be winners by default? Sometimes I wonder who's stronger...Chun Li or Guile...
    You read this because you're bored.
  • RaishinXRaishinX I fell off Joined: Posts: 2,040 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Chrno wrote:
    So...if all we had was one game, SFII from the 90s, no SFA...no Akuma...who would've won? lol...bad question in the middle of nowhere. I'm guessing, with that game alone, that would be insufficent?

    I'd say Guile. Women, by default are slightly weaker than men and with rage fueling him I don't think beating Bison would've been that big of a deal.
    i just stared at beast for 5 minutes.... hes looking right at me
    like im poongko and i got his money -Jaja Novistro
  • Golden DragonGolden Dragon Joined: Posts: 872
    Personally, I think either Ryu, Chun-Li, or Guile earned the right to face M. Bison in the final match. It's hard to say whether or not an actual fight with M. Bison took place 'CuZ AAC isn't Very specific concerning what point during the match Gouki showed up and killed M. Bison.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    Hasn't it been already stated Akuma/Gouki was not entered in the SFII tournament? His killing of Bison is moot, as he wasn't entered in the tournament.
  • Murt!Murt! Grindin... Joined: Posts: 702
    Hasn't it been already stated Akuma/Gouki was not entered in the SFII tournament? His killing of Bison is moot, as he wasn't entered in the tournament.

    He doesn't have to have been enrolled to have killed him.
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  • RaishinXRaishinX I fell off Joined: Posts: 2,040 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Personally, I think either Ryu, Chun-Li, or Guile earned the right to face M. Bison in the final match. It's hard to say whether or not an actual fight with M. Bison took place 'CuZ AAC isn't Very specific concerning what point during the match Gouki showed up and killed M. Bison.

    Ryu is void. It is specifically/canonically stated that after Ken beat Ryu he married Eliza. We can see now that not only is he married but he's had a son. I'm kinda thinking that Guile/Chun Li defeated Bison before he was murked.
    i just stared at beast for 5 minutes.... hes looking right at me
    like im poongko and i got his money -Jaja Novistro
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    According to Canon Guile was the only fighter to make it to the finals against Bison. Before the match started Akuma came in...

    So there is no official SF2 winner. SF1 winner was Ryu by beating Sagat with his Evil incarnation (Dark Hadou)...I still don't see why Ryu is viewed as a main character in SF like Liu Kanf from MK...Guile was the main "hero" until the Akuma thing. Also, I don't know who won SF3, maybe Alex or someone like that. Would be cool if Gill came back along with Bison(dictator) and Sagat.
    vasili10 wrote:
    Correct, Sagat still waits for his match with Ryu.

    Capcom could bring back Vega of course, but they'd be pulling a complete 360 if they do. Before Zero 3 came out, Vega was stated to have survived SF2 and recuperating during SF3. After Zero 3 appeared, he was declared as offed for good.

    Vega(Bison) or whatever you wanna call him made his return in the CVS series. I know CVS is not canon but why would Capcom make him better in CVS and more like his SF2 days as opposed to the Alpha series. I think Capcom thought about bringing him back.
  • ruthless_nashruthless_nash Joined: Posts: 2,002
    someone told me ryu boned elena, and out came sean... is this true!!??
  • TiamatRoarTiamatRoar The Grumpy Surly One Joined: Posts: 1,092
    Yes, Elena, a high school girl, was able to give birth to Sean, a high school boy. It all makes sense, now.
  • vasili10vasili10 Forever waits Joined: Posts: 4,394 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Jion_Wansu wrote:
    According to Canon Guile was the only fighter to make it to the finals against Bison. Before the match started Akuma came in...
    We're not completely certain on who made it to Vega (just that Guile is the most likely due to deepest motive), nor when Gouki jumped in for the kill.
    Jion_Wansu wrote:
    So there is no official SF2 winner. SF1 winner was Ryu by beating Sagat with his Evil incarnation (Dark Hadou)...I still don't see why Ryu is viewed as a main character in SF like Liu Kanf from MK...Guile was the main "hero" until the Akuma thing. Also, I don't know who won SF3, maybe Alex or someone like that. Would be cool if Gill came back along with Bison(dictator) and Sagat.
    Only in Japan is Ryu viewed as officially "the main character" for SF, the Zero series, and SF2 because he's whom the storyline revolves around the most. Capcom USA has never taken such an "official" stand, but for SF2 they leaned toward Guile because he's with the deepest links to SF2's main antagonist. Alex did win SF3.
    Jion_Wansu wrote:
    Vega(Bison) or whatever you wanna call him made his return in the CVS series. I know CVS is not canon but why would Capcom make him better in CVS and more like his SF2 days as opposed to the Alpha series. I think Capcom thought about bringing him back.

    You call him one or the other to keep the confusion down; since you start with "Akuma", call him Bison. As for Capcom making him better in versus series because they thought to resurrect him, doubtful. His bio's with SF2 data, just as if he was snatched from SF2's timeline period and placed into the new crossover universe just like everyone else with their respective games and bios.
  • RaishinXRaishinX I fell off Joined: Posts: 2,040 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    TiamatRoar wrote:
    Yes, Elena, a high school girl, was able to give birth to Sean, a high school boy. It all makes sense, now.

    I'm gonna hate it for that guy when he finds out about the tooth fairy. :shake:
    i just stared at beast for 5 minutes.... hes looking right at me
    like im poongko and i got his money -Jaja Novistro
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    I think Vega (M. Bison) is originally from Columbia in the SF storyline. Columbia has most of the big crime/drug cartels, etc. Vega is a spanish name. So if they ever have SF4 and bring back Vega (M. Bison) you will probably be fighting him at his stage in Columbia.
  • vasili10vasili10 Forever waits Joined: Posts: 4,394 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Jion_Wansu wrote:
    I think Vega (M. Bison) is originally from Columbia in the SF storyline. Columbia has most of the big crime/drug cartels, etc. Vega is a spanish name. So if they ever have SF4 and bring back Vega (M. Bison) you will probably be fighting him at his stage in Columbia.

    Interesting theory. His name however comes from Arabic origins rather than Spanish.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    vasili10 wrote:
    Interesting theory. His name however comes from Arabic origins rather than Spanish.

    Really? Arabic? Now that would be a twist...in todays world...Vega(Bison) being a Muslim extremist?...

    Got these from the web:

    Vega - Arabic - The falling star.

    Sagat - First name of Sagat Petchyindee, legendary Muay Thai fighter with a fighting history equalled by no other man. Sagat had a grand total of 317 matches throughout his career and losing very few of them. He also happened to influence a certain videogame....
  • vasili10vasili10 Forever waits Joined: Posts: 4,394 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Jion_Wansu wrote:

    Vega - Arabic - The falling star.

    Yep, that's the reference Capcom used.

    Interesting Sagat info.:tup:
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    How about Goutetsu as a boss character in SF4? They also could say that Goutetsu did not die...Just look at Tekken 5 with Jinpachi. how old is Jinpachi? 100+???

    If this movie is canon

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Street_Fighter_Alpha:_Generations

    then Gouki (Akuma) is Ryu's father!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • SanoSano SRKSANO on PS4 Joined: Posts: 12,997 mod
    There are 3 ways to interpret that movie.

    Fuka is Gouki and Sayaka's daughter. Fuka and Sayaka daughter had the same exact seiyuu (voice actor) in the Japanese version, aside from looking nearly identical.

    Ryu is Gouki and Sayaka's son.

    Fuka is Gouken and Sayaka's daughter. Vasili10 has a good explanation for this possibility, since he's active on this thread I'll leave that up to him.

    Seems like they don't outright say in typical anime fashion, "What do you think? It's up to the viewer to decide." Even the seiyuus on the DVD interview were confused by the entire thing.

    In none of the games, All About books, SF Eternal or anything like that Capcom has never said that Gouki is Ryu's father. Take it as you will.
  • vasili10vasili10 Forever waits Joined: Posts: 4,394 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Jion_Wansu wrote:
    How about Goutetsu as a boss character in SF4? They also could say that Goutetsu did not die...Just look at Tekken 5 with Jinpachi. how old is Jinpachi? 100+???

    If this movie is canon

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Street_Fighter_Alpha:_Generations

    then Gouki (Akuma) is Ryu's father!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Goutetsu as a SF4 boss character would be even less likely than Gouken; we don't know how the latter died, the former was murdered by the shungokusatsu, bloodied corpse and all.

    Alpha Generations like all other animes, comics, and mangas is not canon. The SF2 Animated Movie comes the closest to canon status and it still isn't.
  • Bass X0Bass X0 Joined: Posts: 169
    I don't want Goutetsu or Gouken returning in a canon sequel. However, something like Capcom vs. SNK 3 or Capcom Fighting Jam 2, I would like to see them in.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    What happened to this thread? Anyways the real meaning of "Vega" in Street Fighter is on the previous page.
  • vasili10vasili10 Forever waits Joined: Posts: 4,394 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    What happened to this thread?

    Nothing, it can only go so far when it's posted here and it's not fed to the monster.
  • DebaserDebaser no box required Joined: Posts: 764
    That blasphemy called a movie is not considered canon. It was made by CoA so it isn't officially canon. Goutetsu was killed by Gouki in the same fashion as Gouken. So nyah.
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  • vasili10vasili10 Forever waits Joined: Posts: 4,394 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    That blasphemy called a movie is not considered canon. It was made by CoA so it isn't officially canon. Goutetsu was killed by Gouki in the same fashion as Gouken. So nyah.

    It was not made by CoA Debaser, no animes have ever been made directly by Capcom or any of its branches. We also don't know how Gouken died.
  • DebaserDebaser no box required Joined: Posts: 764
    We also don't know how Gouken died.
    Is this in the movie or in actual canon? I don't think it's a question of whether the anime was canon or not. I'm pretty sure it isn't.
    Edward James Olmos? You got class man! Kemo Sabe!
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  • vasili10vasili10 Forever waits Joined: Posts: 4,394 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Is this in the movie or in actual canon? I don't think it's a question of whether the anime was canon or not. I'm pretty sure it isn't.

    Officially aka in actual canon we don't know how Gouken died, we just know that currently Gouki has the digit of demise.

    Yes, for all the animes, none are canon overall, but bits and pieces of canon can be found in nearly each one. The Zero OVA/Alpha Movie has some, Alpha Generations has some, SF2V and the abandoned TV special even have a few, and the SF2 Animated Movie has the most of course.
  • SystemSystem Joined: Posts: 508,676 admin
    It is most likely Gouken died of a Messatsu Gou Hadou Ken. I only say this because Gouken could null the Shun Goku Satsu. (I think Tiamat or someone explained the whole business with the "Void" and Shun Goku Satsu) So, question: Since Capcom has yet to every bring out another SF game (which most likely probably won't happen) will this thread go dead? I mean there is so many holes in the canon to be filled like the Gouken-thing (how'd he die, is he really dead, where the freak is his body) or whether or not Ryu will actually be under Oro's tutelage, etc etc?
  • TiamatRoarTiamatRoar The Grumpy Surly One Joined: Posts: 1,092
    If plot threads for Street Fighter haven't died yet despite a new canon game not being released in a decade, I don't think they'll be dying anytime soon.

    Besides, odds are Capcom will continue to add to the "canon" storyline via sheer milking of adding in a teeny bit more with a re-release like they currently do, anyways (SFA3 Max, etc). It's like printing money, after all.
  • vasili10vasili10 Forever waits Joined: Posts: 4,394 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    It is most likely Gouken died of a Messatsu Gou Hadou Ken. I only say this because Gouken could null the Shun Goku Satsu. (I think Tiamat or someone explained the whole business with the "Void" and Shun Goku Satsu) So, question: Since Capcom has yet to every bring out another SF game (which most likely probably won't happen) will this thread go dead? I mean there is so many holes in the canon to be filled like the Gouken-thing (how'd he die, is he really dead, where the freak is his body) or whether or not Ryu will actually be under Oro's tutelage, etc etc?

    I had theorized that since Gouken had the kanji for "nothing" on his gi, he would be able to resist the SGS similarly to Gen. Just a theory though on whether he can or did so. In the manga Ryu Final he fell to it.

    It doesn't matter if this particular thread dies or not; it's not the monster.

    Gouken is currently dead, and his body is underneath his grave which Ryu annually visits. Those aren't holes.
  • SanoSano SRKSANO on PS4 Joined: Posts: 12,997 mod
    Yeah man you can go continue any and all storyline related discussions here -

    http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=173

    So whether or not this thread lives or dies doesn't matter like vasili10 said.
  • ObliterateObliterate Joined: Posts: 218
    I'm surprised we haven't seen a prequel fighter to Street Fighter that has all said characters (Gouken, Goutetsu, Akuma, Bison pre-psycho, etc.) in their younger years...SF Alpha 4 maybe?
    Is this friggin user name taken too?
  • TiamatRoarTiamatRoar The Grumpy Surly One Joined: Posts: 1,092
    I'm not too surprised. Three of those four guys you just mentioned are shotokans. I'd like to think Capcom isn't in a rush to create/have even MORE of those.
  • tajiritajiri hates you Joined: Posts: 1,253
    I'm not too surprised. Three of those four guys you just mentioned are ANSATSUKEN PRACTICIONERS. I'd like to think Capcom isn't in a rush to create/have even MORE of those.

    fixed.
  • TiamatRoarTiamatRoar The Grumpy Surly One Joined: Posts: 1,092
    "Ansatsuken Practitioners" takes too long to type. :P I guess I could call them "Ansatsukens", but that sounds wierd and technically would include Gen as well despite him being completely different in terms of... well, everything.

    So I'll just continue to use the term that everyone knows what it means, even if its technically wrong at the most specific levels.
  • tajiritajiri hates you Joined: Posts: 1,253
    "Ansatsuken Practitioners" takes too long to type. :P I guess I could call them "Ansatsukens", but that sounds wierd and technically would include Gen as well despite him being completely different in terms of... well, everything.

    So I'll just continue to use the term that everyone knows what it means, even if its technically wrong at the most specific levels.

    lol. no worries.
    the people i play with are kind of anal when it comes to canon and "official" terms, so i got laughed at when i called ken&ryu "shotos"
  • TiamatRoarTiamatRoar The Grumpy Surly One Joined: Posts: 1,092
    It's either shotos or "ansatsus", and the latter also sounds kinda stupid and is an extra syllable with hard several consonants longer to say! And still doesn't get around the fact that it'd technically include Gen despite Gen being completely different.
  • Red-ImpactRed-Impact Breaking the chains Joined: Posts: 184
    so...

    are chul li and ryu going to make babies anytime soon?:confused:
    I conclude that those horses are not either mexican nor horses, but rather, they are fucking colombian drug smuggling donkeys. Stop coming to my fucking country you dirty immigrants! -Jaldaboath

    SSF2 1.36 no lag? ---PM me and Vega will gladly own you :)
  • vasili10vasili10 Forever waits Joined: Posts: 4,394 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    so...

    are chul li and ryu going to make babies anytime soon?:confused:

    Why would they?
  • Red-ImpactRed-Impact Breaking the chains Joined: Posts: 184
    Why would they?

    main characters? azn?
    I conclude that those horses are not either mexican nor horses, but rather, they are fucking colombian drug smuggling donkeys. Stop coming to my fucking country you dirty immigrants! -Jaldaboath

    SSF2 1.36 no lag? ---PM me and Vega will gladly own you :)
  • vasili10vasili10 Forever waits Joined: Posts: 4,394 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    main characters? azn?

    Not likely. Neither has feelings for the other; they just see each other as formidable fighters. Since 3S, the only time confirmed that they saw each other was 8-10 years ago.
  • Red-ImpactRed-Impact Breaking the chains Joined: Posts: 184
    Not likely. Neither has feelings for the other; they just see each other as formidable fighters. Since 3S, the only time confirmed that they saw each other was 8-10 years ago.

    We need more love in the sf universe...some1 has to get chun li :confused:
    I conclude that those horses are not either mexican nor horses, but rather, they are fucking colombian drug smuggling donkeys. Stop coming to my fucking country you dirty immigrants! -Jaldaboath

    SSF2 1.36 no lag? ---PM me and Vega will gladly own you :)
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