Lagless Computer Monitors

davidkong07davidkong07 Scrub Random.Ultra.David.Joined: Posts: 815
Hello everyone,

I'm about to buy a new PC, and I plan on running fighting games on it. My question is, what suggestions do people have for lagless monitors? I know the EVO monitor is the asus VH236H, but that thing is expensive.

Can anyone recommend specific lagless monitors that are cheaper? What's the best value for my dollar? Thanks in advance for the help!!!!
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Comments

  • The PhantomnautThe Phantomnaut ナオトケン Joined: Posts: 1,407
    It's probably the most affordable one at $160 with rebate. Or try finding a CRT computer monitor and run on VGA.
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  • TeyahTeyah Return of the Dragon Joined: Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭
    The only lagless monitors are CRTs. LCD monitors run anywhere from 8 ms up to 50 ms of lag, depending on the model and native resolutions.

    The least laggy LCD monitors out there (for Xbox 360 and PS3) are the 720p native resolution monitors. Because these are so rare, you'll have to do some digging to find them. A lot of monitors are listed as 720p but are actually 768p (1366x768), so you have to make sure that the native resolution is actually 720p (1280x720). I have this model, which I've tested to have 8~10 ms average delay: http://www.amazon.com/Gateway-Widescreen-Monitor-Black-FPD1775W/dp/B000PIYVKC

    Other monitors such as the Evo monitor (ASUS VH236) are some of the less laggy non-720p native monitors, as it averages 22 ms of lag (0~45 ms) running in 720p. But this is still a fair bit more than native 720p monitors, and much more than CRTs.

    If you want absolutely no lag, then you have to go CRT. There are some HD CRT (720i/1080i) TVs out there, but they're fairly old and generally really large and I don't think they have VGA inputs for PCs.
    I see in frames IRL
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  • sgvince22sgvince22 Joined: Posts: 107
    i thought the VH236Hs are cheaper now.
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  • mistahsnartmistahsnart Joined: Posts: 496
    LCD monitors run anywhere from 8 ms up to 50 ms of lag
    Response time is not lag.
    "I suppose I could keep only two copies of Spider-Man 2 and still be feared..."
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  • TeyahTeyah Return of the Dragon Joined: Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭
    I don't think anyone said that it was... (except you!)

    I would be very worried if a monitor had 50 ms response time. Those numbers refer to actual input delay / lag. Response time is generally 2~8 ms on newer monitors and does not equal lag, FYI.
    I see in frames IRL
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  • TonepoetTonepoet Joined: Posts: 155
    If you want absolutely no lag, then you have to go CRT. There are some HD CRT (720i/1080i) TVs out there, but they're fairly old and generally really large and I don't think they have VGA inputs for PCs.

    There is no such thing as 720i or at the very least, it was never widespread and standardized. The whole point behind 1080i, much like the whole point behind interlacing at all, was to allow over the air broadcasting to work with limited bandwidth. We could've had progressive scan long before if it wasn't for that little catch. When C.R.T.s were still popular, there were no passive 1080p sources to watch.

    If you're having trouble finding a so called "high definition" cathode ray tube with a V.G.A. input, you've obviously never checked out actual computer monitors which is where the video signal connection originates from. C.R.T. monitor resolutions have been consistently higher than the television for decades now, with many models performing at 1280x768 (a little over 720p) and beyond , with progressive scan enabled because they're designed to be hooked up directly to the source, rather than trying to suck out a weakish signal coming from miles away in the overcrowded airspace. C.R.T. computer monitors tend to have very high maximum resolutions and P.P.I.

    If the goal is simply to hook up an H.D.T.V.s, to a computer particular the later ones have D.V.I. I even know of at least one that supports H.D.C.P, the Sony KD-34XBR910....

    Finally somebody correct me if I'm wrong, since I don't want to dig through thousands of posts in the H.D.T.V. thread and search terms like CRT are too short for the search function. However I thought it was said that the notion that CRTs can't lag was merely a myth. Now S.D.T.V.s won't lag because they only accept the lowest common denominator signal and they don't perform post-processing but that's a bit different...
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  • mistahsnartmistahsnart Joined: Posts: 496
    I don't think anyone said that it was... (except you!)

    I would be very worried if a monitor had 50 ms response time. Those numbers refer to actual input delay / lag. Response time is generally 2~8 ms on newer monitors and does not equal lag, FYI.
    I always hear everyone complain about lag on LCD monitors. I must not be as tenderly sensitive to it, as I've gamed on LCD monitors for years and don't feel lag. Either that, or people need to start buying more expensive monitors.

    (Also, sorry for the confusion on the lag/response time. For the record, my first LCD monitor in 2002 had a 45ms response time. Yes, it was a blurry mess, but I didn't feel any input delay, and I used it daily for my design business and gaming.)
    "I suppose I could keep only two copies of Spider-Man 2 and still be feared..."
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  • blueNINEblueNINE RPD MCZ Alex Smith Joined: Posts: 1,278
    For monitors that have almost no lag at all, the cost of the VH236H is low, especially if you seek out a good deal on it.
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  • RufusRufus An unexpected database error has occurred. Joined: Posts: 1,941 ✭✭
    Finally somebody correct me if I'm wrong, since I don't want to dig through thousands of posts in the H.D.T.V. thread and search terms like CRT are too short for the search function. However I thought it was said that the notion that CRTs can't lag was merely a myth. Now S.D.T.V.s won't lag because they only accept the lowest common denominator signal and they don't perform post-processing but that's a bit different...

    It's easy to slow things down by trying to get fancy and do digital processing of the signal. For example, I have a 'Y' scan converter that will split VGA -> VGA + TV and will add lag on the VGA line... Part of the reason that LCDs and other modern flat screens lag is that they do stuff that compensates for the difference in display technologies - some of which will deliberately delay the display of signals. Meanwhile, computer CRTs are built with the assumption that the signal is set up specifically for that display. (To the point, in fact, that you can damage displays by sending them the wrong kinds of signal).

    The fact is that CRTs do take non-zero time to display signals, but it's on the same sort of time scale as using a shorter controller cord to improve responsiveness. For what it's worth, the current generation of consoles - at least the Xbox 360 - have subtly different frame rates depending on the display technology, so there is possibly also lag caused by processing on the console.
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  • TonepoetTonepoet Joined: Posts: 155
    While it is true that unsupported inputs will damage them, C.R.T. monitors usually have multiscan capabilities providing for an array of resolutions, mostly for interoperability purposes. My first computer monitor, produced in october of '95 according to the back label, was an Apple Multple Scan 14. According to Apple it supported both VGA and SVGA resolutions. I'm sure more got added I'm not really sure what effect that has though.

    The refresher does remind me that most H.D.T.V.s don't directly take the 720p signals: They'll either upscale it to 1080i or downscale it to 480p because those are the only signals they'll display. I forgot why that is exactly... Most console specific games are only natively output at 720p, aren't they?

    Best bet for a cheap lagless monitor would probably be to find a monitor that displays 1280x720 natively to play your games on now that I think about it... Lower resolutions should be cheaper than full high def. and if the games don't actually render in full high def. anything more would be kinda pointless. Question is where will you find a monitor with an exact 1280x720 resolution? Most are either slightly over or slightly under...
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  • MarkManMarkMan FOR THE COMMUNITY! Joined: Posts: 5,137 mod
    VH236H is used by both EVO and MLG. It is NOT expensive by any means. Go get some.
    - MarkMan @ SDTEKKEN.COM

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  • ExvarisExvaris The player formerly known as SnakeAes Joined: Posts: 2,869 ✭✭✭
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=vh236h&x=0&y=0

    Open box VH236H is 78 bucks.

    Get on that! If I didn't already have three (lol), I would buy it.
    «勝兵先勝而後求戰,敗兵先戰而後求勝。»
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    ---
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  • dieKatze88dieKatze88 Joined: Posts: 31
    I use the Acer P244W, it does not lag either, 24", HDMI and VGA, 1080p. Tested against a CRT with a VGA splitter.

    The Acer H243H has about half a frame of lag, so it's also pretty good, Its also easier to get. I have two of those, tested the same way. It is also 24", HDMI and VGA, 1080p.

    The P244w has an Audio output port, where as the H243H has a built in speaker set that totally sucks, so you'd have to deal with audio output some other way, well, unless you like tinny sounding low bass audio. Which I suppose is fine for some situations, like if you lived in a small dorm.
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  • JRXP2010JRXP2010 Joined: Posts: 64
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=vh236h&x=0&y=0

    Open box VH236H is 78 bucks.

    Get on that! If I didn't already have three (lol), I would buy it.

    Good find! I just bought it... No lag here I come!!!
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  • Mr.NannieMr.Nannie Friends with Kl'rt Joined: Posts: 1,684
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=vh236h&x=0&y=0

    Open box VH236H is 78 bucks.

    Get on that! If I didn't already have three (lol), I would buy it.
    I use this monitor and the picture quality is great but the sound is lacking. IDK if there is anyway to hook up external sound to it, but I dont know of a way, and it distorts at volume
    AV by Savaii64
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  • ExvarisExvaris The player formerly known as SnakeAes Joined: Posts: 2,869 ✭✭✭
    It does have audio-out, but it's just a regular audio-out that you'd find like on computer speakers, not a Digital Audio Out like on a TV.

    Still a fairly good option though. I've never had a problem with the volume on mine, but I do know of people who have had sound issues.
    «勝兵先勝而後求戰,敗兵先戰而後求勝。»
    "Victorious warriors win first, then go to war; defeated warriors go to war first, then seek to win."
    - Sun Tzu, The Art of War
    ---
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  • Crown ClownCrown Clown Joined: Posts: 36
    It has a digital out through coaxial digital cable.
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  • DarkBlade77DarkBlade77 Joined: Posts: 203
    Man I wish I'd seen that open box deal a few hours ago, daaamn.

    This review of the VH232H, which is on sale at Newegg right now ($155, or $140 after mail-in-rebate) puts its average input lag at 3.1ms, or less than a fifth of a frame, from testing it against a CRT using a high-speed camera.
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  • masturfadermasturfader Fr:Russia with glove Joined: Posts: 1,421
    Couldn't find the answer. If I use a VGA splitter on 360. Will there be lag?
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  • ExtremeYoshiFanExtremeYoshiFan Joined: Posts: 1,154 ✭✭✭
    Has anyone heard about the Samsung PX2370 monitors? I have a few Samsung TV sets(50" and 46" both LCD, one 60hz, one 120hz) and they are amazing in terms of quality and lag performance, but I want lag specs on the PX2370 monitor, as one is for sale locally at a great price.
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  • SNAAAAKESNAAAAKE keptyouwaitinghuh Joined: Posts: 9,908 ✭✭✭✭✭
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=vh236h&x=0&y=0

    Open box VH236H is 78 bucks.

    Get on that! If I didn't already have three (lol), I would buy it.

    how does newegg openbox deal work? says full price now.

    they are randomly on sale or...:eek:??
    you must defeat my Shen Long to receive the reward

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  • pzlatepzlate When's Breakers Joined: Posts: 878 ✭✭✭
    how does newegg openbox deal work? says full price now.

    they are randomly on sale or...:eek:??

    Usually they're put up when a customer returns an item, looks like it was sold already.

    I think B&H Photo has the cheapest price for them right now, they also sometimes put up refurbs for $100~

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/645704-REG/ASUS_VH236H_VH236H_23_Widescreen_Monitor.html

    I usually prefer buying my monitors from a company that's out of state as I live in California and do not wish to pay a ridiculous recycling fee. (Last time I bought a monitor it was $16 dollars, I think it's $8 now though. )
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  • DirtySanchezDirtySanchez Joined: Posts: 293
    anyone know what monitor this is? at 8:01 it shows the monitor. http://www.youtube.com/user/Ov3rheadGreg#p/u/0/yvuaw_4Ggr0
    joe camel
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  • DarksakulDarksakul Your lack of faith disturbs me Joined: Posts: 11,928 ✭✭✭✭✭
    anyone know what monitor this is? at 8:01 it shows the monitor. http://www.youtube.com/user/Ov3rheadGreg#p/u/0/yvuaw_4Ggr0
    All I can tell it is a LG with Component video connections used. Yes Component video, and analog source supports HD.
    I use the Acer P244W, it does not lag either, 24", HDMI and VGA, 1080p. Tested against a CRT with a VGA splitter.

    The Acer H243H has about half a frame of lag, so it's also pretty good, Its also easier to get. I have two of those, tested the same way. It is also 24", HDMI and VGA, 1080p.

    The P244w has an Audio output port, where as the H243H has a built in speaker set that totally sucks, so you'd have to deal with audio output some other way, well, unless you like tinny sounding low bass audio. Which I suppose is fine for some situations, like if you lived in a small dorm.
    I got no problems with my Acer G235H with my PC and with my consoles I used a 720p 26" Dynex HDTV.

    If there is lag, there it is too slight for me to notice, less than a frame. Also the response time is awesome on my Budget brand HDTV.
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  • AmigoOneAmigoOne Joined: Posts: 1,181 ✭✭
    What TV would you guys recommend for a larger than 23" HD TV with little to no lag? I still don't understand what Im supposed to look at to see how much lag a TV has if its not pixel response time.

    Also I am willing to buy one of those "commercial moniters"s that I read from the FAQ, how do I find them?
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  • ComradeTaoComradeTao Rock It! Joined: Posts: 1,247
    There's actually an entire thread listing the best lag condition TV's and monitors in another thread. I want to say it's called the "tv/monitor input lag database" but I can't remember the exact thread name. It's here and recent though.
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  • theanimefan101theanimefan101 HYPE. BUTTON MASHING. SALTINESS Joined: Posts: 446
    so im thinking of buying a samsung "22" monitor and the description says it has a 5ms response time, does anyone else have this monitor is this a good substitute for the the asus vh236H monitor?
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  • SNAAAAKESNAAAAKE keptyouwaitinghuh Joined: Posts: 9,908 ✭✭✭✭✭
    so im thinking of buying a samsung "22" monitor and the description says it has a 5ms response time, does anyone else have this monitor is this a good substitute for the the asus vh236H monitor?

    you cant be FUCKING serious................
    you must defeat my Shen Long to receive the reward

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  • theanimefan101theanimefan101 HYPE. BUTTON MASHING. SALTINESS Joined: Posts: 446
    you cant be FUCKING serious................
    well my apologies but im trying to find a decent monitor that i can buy and since i saw that monitor for a good price i thought i should investigate before buying it
    Follow our group on facebook at http://www.facebook.com/groups/129209053830689/ so you can stay up to date about upcoming tournaments in wichita,ks
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  • SNAAAAKESNAAAAKE keptyouwaitinghuh Joined: Posts: 9,908 ✭✭✭✭✭
    response time has nothing to do with input lag x 390583945034953425

    just get the asus. got mine today its amazing.
    you must defeat my Shen Long to receive the reward

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  • SNAAAAKESNAAAAKE keptyouwaitinghuh Joined: Posts: 9,908 ✭✭✭✭✭
    its on sale newegg.com
    you must defeat my Shen Long to receive the reward

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  • AmigoOneAmigoOne Joined: Posts: 1,181 ✭✭
    Well some people have more needs for a monitor than just SF purposes.

    http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/sub-1-frame-hdtv-monitor-input-lag-database.145141/

    Heres the thread for anyone who wants it.
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