Ken G'eneral Discussion Thread (Frame Data, Techniques, Combos, and etc.)

G77G77 Master Theory Fighter!Joined: Posts: 876
Thread Index:
Post 1 = Frame data (AE, Super, Vanilla).
Post 2 = Damage, Stun and BnB combos.
Post 3 = Links to every useful Ken thread.

Frame Data - AE (Super) [Vanilla]

CS. LP - 4/2/5/+4/+7 (same) [same]
CS. MP - 6/3/18/-7/-2 (same) [same]
CS. HP - 6/3/19/-4/+1 (same) [same] Forces Standing
CS. LK - 6/2/7/+2/+5 (same) [same]
CS. MK - 8/3/12/-1/+7 (same) [same] Forces Standing
CS. HK - 8/3/21/-6/-2 (same) [same]

FS. LP - 4/2/5/+4/+7 (same) [same]
FS. MP - 7/5/5/+4/+7 (same) [same]
FS. HP - 11/3/16/-1/+3 (same) [same]
FS. LK - 4/3/7/+1/+4 (same) [same]
FS. MK - 7/3/13/-2/+1 (same) [same]
FS. HK - 12/3/21/-6/-2 (same) [same]

C. LP - 3/3/6/+2/+5 (same) [same]
C. MP - 5/5/8/+1/+4 (5/5/9/0/+3) [same]
C. HP - 5/5/22/-9/-4 (same) [5/4/23/-9/-4] Forces Standing
C. LK - 3/4/7/0/+3 (same) [same]
C. MK - 4/2/16/-4/-1 (4/4/14/-4/-1) [same]
C. HK - 7/3/22/-7/UKD (8/3/21/-6/UKD) [same]

Neutral Jump LP - 7 (same) [same]
Neutral Jump MP - 5 (same) [same]
Neutral Jump HP - 7 (same) [same]
Neutral Jump LK - 7 (same) [same]
Neutral Jump MK - 6 (same) [same]
Neutral Jump HK - 6 (same) [same]

Forward Jump LP - 7 (same) [same]
Forward Jump MP - 5 (same) [same]
Forward Jump HP - 5 (same) [same]
Forward Jump LK - 5 (same) [same]
Forward Jump MK - 6 (same) [same]
Forward Jump HK - 5 (same) [same]

MK overhead - 15/2/17/-5/-2 (same) [same]
Step Kick - 11/5/11/-2/+1 (same) [same]
HK overhead - 21/22/20/-4/-1 (same) [23/2/20/-4/-1]
Target Combo - 6/3/24/-9/-4 (same) [same]

Focus Attack lvl 1 - 22/2/42/-28/-28 (same) [same] Forward Dash gives -2
Focus Attack lvl 2 - 17+13/2/42/-22/Crumple (same) [18+12/2/42/-22/Crumple] Forward Dash gives +4
Focus Attack lvl 3 - 68/2/42/Crumple (same) [same]

Throw - 3/2/20 (same) [same]

LP/MP/HP Hadoken - 14/#/47/-7/-3 (same) [same]
EX Hadoken - 14/#/43/0/+3 (14/#/44/-1/+2) [same]

LP SRK - 3/11/18+8/20/KD (3/3+8/18+6/-14/KD) [4/11/17+9/-16/KD] 1~2F Invincible
MP SRK - 4/3*11/25+14/-29/KD (same) [4/3*11/25+9/-24/KD] 1~6F Invincible
HP SRK - 3/2*2*12/30+9/-30/KD (same) [same] 1~4F Invincible
EX SRK - 4/2*2*2*8/45+9/-41 (4/2*2*2*6/45+9/-41) [5/2*2*3*7/45+9/-40/KD] 1~11F Invincible

LK Tatsumaki - 6/1(4)2(6)2/11+6/-6/-2 (same) [6/1(4)2(6)2/12+8/-9/-5]
MK Tatsumaki - 6/2(5)2(5)1(5)2(5)2/14+9/-4/0 (same) [same]
HK Tatsumaki - 6/2(6)1(5)1(5)1(5)1(5)1(5)2(4)2/12+12/-5/-1 (same) [same]
EX Tatsumaki - 6/2(4)1(3)1(4)1(3)1(4)1(4)1(3)1/9+14/-3/+1 (same) [same]

Air LK Tatsumaki - 8/2x4/10 (same) [same]
Air MK Tatsumaki - 7/1x5/10 (same) [same]
Air HK Tatsumaki - 7/1x5/10 (same) [same]
Air EX Tatsumaki - 6/1x6*2/4 (same) [same]

LP Super - 1+1/2*1*8(20)1*3*7/31+12/-29/UKD (same) [1+1/2*2*8(20)1*3*7/31+12/-29/UKD]
MP Super - 1+1/2*2*8(20)1*3*7/31+12/-29/UKD (1+2/2*2*8(20)1*3*7/31+12/-29/UKD) [1+1/2*2*8(20)1*3*7/31+12/-29/UKD]
HP Super - 1+1/2*2*8(20)1*3*7/31+12/-29/UKD (1+2/2*2*8(20)1*3*7/31+12/-29/UKD) [1+1/2*2*8(20)1*3*7/31+12/-29/UKD]

Ultra 1 - 1+9/2*2*5x7*1/32+50/-94/UKD (same) [same] 1~11F Invincible
Ultra 2 - 1+6/2(5)93/8+42/-40/UKD (same) [N/A] 1~14F Invincible

Super Ken's New Techniques

- AA U2
- Air Tatsu > U2
- SRK > FADC on block: -2 (-1 in Vanilla)
- CS. MK > U2 (1-frame link)
- CS. LP/FS. LP > U2 (1-frame link)
- L. SRK > Kara EX SRK - 230/250 (doesn't work against Adon, Cody, E. Honda, Guile, Hakan)
- L. SRK > Kara MP Super > "fake" U1 - 566/100
- Corner: L. SRK > F. SRK - 130/150
- Corner: L. SRK > M. SRK - 160/175
- Corner: L. SRK > EX SRK - 230/250

AE Ken's New Techniques

- Early AA L. SRK > EX FB (both hits combo)
- F. SRK > FADC > EX FB (both hits combo)
- L. SRK > EX SRK in the corner still works, but it's harder compared to SSF4
- Improved TC Hitbox but not "fixed"; CS. HP whiffs if CS. MP hits/block stuns at it's farthest distance
- Improved CS. LP Hitbox but not "fixed"; it block stuns specific crouching characters consistently
«13456715

Comments

  • G77G77 Master Theory Fighter! Joined: Posts: 876
    Damage/Stun/Meter Comparison - AE (Super) [Vanilla]

    Close Standing:

    LP - 30/50/20 (same) [same]
    MP - 60/100/40 (same) [same]
    HP - 90/150/60 (same) [same]
    LK - 30/50/20 (same) [same]
    MK - 70/100/40 (same) [same]
    HK - 110/200/60 (same) [same]

    Far Standing:

    LP - 20/50/20 (same) [same]
    MP - 70/100/40 (same) [same]
    HP - 100/200/60 (same) [same]
    LK - 40/50/20 (same) [same]
    MK - 80/100/40 (same) [same]
    HK - 130/200/60 (same) [same]

    Crouching:

    LP - 30/50/20 (same) [same]
    MP - 60/100/40 (70/100/40) [same]
    HP - 100/200/60 (same) [same]
    LK - 20/50/20 (same) [same]
    MK - 60/100/40 (same) [70/100/40]
    HK - 100/100/60 (same) [110/200/60]

    Neutral Jump:

    LP - 50/50/20 (same) [same]
    MP - 80/100/40 (same) [same]
    HP - 100/200/60 (same) [same]
    LK - 40/50/20 (same) [same]
    MK - 80/100/40 (same) [same]
    HK - 100/200/60 (same) [same]

    Forward/Back Jump:

    LP - 40/50/20 (same) [same]
    MP - 70/100/40 (same) [same]
    HP - 100/200/60 (same) [same]
    LK - 50/50/20 (same) [same]
    MK - 80/100/40 (same) [same]
    HK - 100/200/60 (same) [same]

    Focus Attack:

    Level 1 - 60/100/20 (same) [same]
    Level 2 - 90/150/40 (same) [same]
    Level 3 - 150/200/60 (same) [same]

    Throws:

    Forward - 120/80/40 (same) [same]
    Back - 130/80/40 (same) [same]

    Hadoken:

    LP/MP/HP - 60/100/10+20 (same) [same]
    EX - 90/100/-250 (same) [same]

    SRK:

    LP - 120/100/30+40 (100/100/30+40) [120/200/30+40]
    MP - 150/200/30+30*16 (same) [160/200/30+30*16]
    HP - 140/200/30+30*10*10 (same) [same]
    EX - 180/230/-250 (same) [240/250/-250]

    Tatsumaki if the knee hits:

    LK - 110/120/20+20*10*10 (same) [90/100/20+20*10*10]
    MK - 150/170/20+20*10*10*10 (same) [180/200/20+20*10*10*10]
    HK - 180/210/20+20*10*10*10*10 (same) [240/250/20+20*10*10*10*10]
    EX - 210/250/-250 (same) [same]

    Air Tatsumaki:

    LK - 50/50/10+30 (same) [same]
    MK - 60/50/10+30 (same) [same]
    HK - 70/50/10+30 (same) [same]

    Step Kick - 60/100/40 (same) [same]
    MK overhead - 80/100/40 (same) [same]
    HK overhead - 120/150/60 (same) [same]
    Target Combo - 130/150/30 (90/150/30) [same]

    Super (6 hits) - 370/-1000 (same) [400/-1000]

    Full Ultra 1 (17 hits) - 500 (same) [546]
    Full Ultra 2 (12 hits) - 476 (same) [N/A]

    Combo Damage/Stun/Meter Comparison - AE (Super) [Vanilla]

    C.LP > C.LP > F.SRK - 172/260/120 (same) [same]
    C.LP > C.LP > C.LP > F.SRK - 182/280/140 (same) [same]
    C.LP > C.LP > C.LP > F.Super - 356/100/-1000 (same)

    C.LP > C.HP > F.SRK - 242/410/160 (same) [same]
    C.LP > C.HP > EX SRK - 274/434/-170 (same) [322/450/-170]
    C.LP > C.HP > HK Tatsu - 226/378/140 (same) [258/410/140]
    C.LP > C.HP > EX Tatsu - 258/410/-170; 298/450/-170 if the knee hits (same) [same]
    C.LP > C.HP > F.Super - 426/250/-1000 (same) []

    C.LP > C.LP/CS.LP > C.HP > F.SRK - 238/400/180 (same) [same]
    C.LP > C.LP/CS.LP > C.HP > EX SRK - 266/422/-150 (same) []
    C.LP > C.LP/CS.LP > C.HP > HK Tatsu - 224/372/ (same) []
    C.LP > C.LP/CS.LP > C.HP > EX Tatsu - 252/400/-150 (same) [same]
    C.LP > C.LP/CS.LP > C.HP > F.Super - 399/260/-1000 (same) []

    C.MP > C.MK > F.SRK - 232/360/160 (N/A) [N/A]
    C.MP > C.MK > EX SRK - 264/384/-170 (N/A) [N/A]
    C.MP > C.MK > HK Tatsu - 216/328/ (N/A) [N/A]
    C.MP > C.MK > EX Tatsu - 248/360/-170 (N/A) [N/A]
    C.MP > C.MK > F.Super - 390/200/-1000 (N/A) [N/A]

    C.HP > F.SRK - 240/400/140 (same) [same]
    C.HP > EX SRK - 280/430/-190 (same) [340/450/same]
    C.HP > HK Tatsu - 220/360; 280/410/140 if the knee hits (same) [260/400; 340/450/140 if the knee hits]
    C.HP > EX Tatsu - (260/400; 310/450/-190 if the knee hits) (same) [same]
    C.HP > F.Super - 470/200/-1000 (same) []

    CS.HK > F.SRK - 250/400/140 (same) [same]
    CS.HK > EX SRK - 290/430/-190 (same) [350/450]
    CS.HK > HK Tatsu - 230/360; 290/410/140 if the knee hits (same) [270/400; 350/450/140 if the knee hits]
    CS.HK > EX Tatsu - 320/450/-190 (same) [same]
    CS.HK > F.Super - 480/200/-1000 (same) []

    C.LP > CS.LP > FS.LP > C.HK - 146/210/120 (N/A) [N/A]
    C.LP > CS.LP > FS.MP > C.HK - 186/250/140 (N/A) [N/A]
    FS.MP/CS.MK > C.HK - 170/200/100 (N/A) [N/A]
    C.MK > Hadoken > FADC > C.HK - 200/280/-370 (N/A) [N/A]
    C.HP > Hadoken > FADC > C.HK - 240/380/-350 (N/A) [N/A]
    Target Combo > Hadoken > FADC > C.HK - 248/300/-380 (N/A) [N/A]

    Target Combo > Hadoken - 178/230/60 (138/230/same) [same]
    Target Combo > EX Hadoken - 202/230/-220 (162/230/-220) [same]
    Target Combo > L.SRK - 226/230 (170/230) [same]
    Target Combo > F.SRK - 242/310/110 (202/310/110) [same]
    Target Combo > EX SRK - 274/334/-220 (234/334/-220) []
    Target Combo > HK Tatsu - 226/278; 274/318 if the knee hits (186/278) []
    Target Combo > EX Tatsu - 258/310; 298/350/ if the knee hits (218/310/; 258/350/ if the knee hits) [same]
    Target Combo > F. Super - 426/150/-1000 (386/150/-1000) []

    F.SRK > FADC > EX Hadoken - 200/250/-680 () []
    F.SRK > FADC > EX SRK - 240/300/-680 (same) []
    F.SRK > FADC > Air EX Tatsu - 270/350/-680 (same) [same]
    F.SRK (2nd hit) > L.Super > "fake" U1 - 576/150/-1000 (same) []

    F.SRK > FADC > "fake" U1 - 326/150/-430 (same) [same]
    Target Combo > F.SRK > FADC > "fake" U1 - 380/270/-400 (340/270/-400) [same]
    Early AA L. SRK > "fake" U1 - 296/100 (316) [296/100]
    C.LP > C.LP > F.SRK > FADC > "fake" U1 - 310/220 (same) [same]
    C.MP > C.MK > F.SRK > FADC > "fake" U1 - 370/320 (N/A) [N/A]
    C.HP > F.SRK > FADC > "fake" U1 - 399/350 (same) [same]
    C.HK > F.SRK > FADC > "fake" U1 - 409/350 (same) [same]
    CH F.SRK > FADC > Full U1 - 539/175 (same) [563/175]

    C.MP/MK > Hadoken > FADC > U2 - 456/200 (same) [N/A]
    C.HP > Hadoken > FADC > U2 - 496/300 (same) [N/A]
    C.HK > Hadoken > FADC > U2 - 506/300 (same) [N/A]
    Target Combo > Hadoken > FADC > U2 - 471/230 (431/230) [N/A]
    C.LP > CS.LP > FS.LP > U2 - 377/140 (same) [N/A]
    FS.MP/CS.MK > U2 - 455/100 (same) [N/A]

    J.HP/HK > C.LP > C.LP > C.LP > F.SRK - 259/445 (same) [same]
    J.HP/HK > C.LP > C.LP > F.SRK - 252/430 (same) [same]
    J.HP/HK > C.LP > C.LP > C.LP > C.MK > HK Tatsu - 256/445 (same) []
    J.HP/HK > C.LP > C.LP > C.LP > C.MK > EX Tatsu - 291/485 (same) [297/485]

    J.HP/HK > C.LP > C.LP > C.MK > F.SRK - 280/480 (same) [287/450]
    J.HP/HK > C.LP > C.LP > C.MK > HK Tatsu - 268/456 (same) [299/480]
    J.HP/HK > C.LP > C.LP > C.MK > EX Tatsu - 292/480 (same) [299/480]

    J.HP/HK > C.LP > C.LP > C.HP > F.SRK - 308/550 (same) [same]
    J.HP/HK > C.LP > C.LP > C.HP > EX SRK - 332/568 (same) [368/580]
    J.HP/HK > C.LP > C.LP > C.HP > HK Tatsu - 296/526 (same) [320/550]
    J.HP/HK > C.LP > C.LP > C.HP > EX Tatsu - 320/550 (same) [same]

    J.HP/HK > C.LP > C.MK > F.SRK - 276/470 (same) [284/470]
    J.HP/HK > C.LP > C.MK > EX SRK - 304/492 (same) [354/505]
    J.HP/HK > C.LP > C.MK > HK Tatsu - 262/442 (same) [298/470]
    J.HP/HK > C.LP > C.MK > EX Tatsu - 290/470 (same) [298/470]

    J.HP/HK > C.LP > C.HP > F.SRK - 308/550 (same) [same]
    J.HP/HK > C.LP > C.HP > EX SRK - 336/572 (same) [378/585]
    J.HP/HK > C.LP > C.HP > HK Tatsu - 294/522 (same) [322/550]
    J.HP/HK > C.LP > C.HP > EX Tatsu - 322/550; 357/585 if the knee hits (same) [322/550; 357/585 if the knee hits]

    J.HP/HK > C.HP > F.SRK - 312/560 (same) [same]
    J.HP/HK > C.HP > EX SRK - 344/584 (same) [392/600]
    J.HP/HK > C.HP > HK Tatsu - 296/528; 344/584 if the knee hits (same) [328/560; 392/600 if the knee hits]
    J.HP/HK > C.HP > EX Tatsu - 368/600 (same) [same]

    J.HP/HK > C.HK > F.SRK - 322/560 (same) [same]
    J.HP/HK > C.HK > EX SRK - 354/584 (same) [402/600]
    J.HP/HK > C.HK > HK Tatsu - 354/568 (same) [402/600]
    J.HP/HK > C.HK > EX Tatsu - 378/600 (same) [same]

    Corner: C.MK > Hadoken > FADC > C.HP > F.SRK - 298/500 (same) [308/500]
    Corner: C.MK > Hadoken > FADC > C.HP > EX SRK - 326/522 (same) [378/535]
    Corner: C.MK > Hadoken > FADC > C.HP > HK Tatsu - 326/507 (same) [378/535]
    Corner: C.MK > Hadoken > FADC > C.HP > EX Tatsu - 347/535 (same) [357/535]

    Corner: C.HP > Hadoken > FADC > C.HP > F.SRK - 338/600 (same) [same]
    Corner: C.HP > Hadoken > FADC > C.HP > EX SRK - 366/622 (same) [408/635]
    Corner: C.HP > Hadoken > FADC > C.HP > HK Tatsu - 366/607 (same) [408/635]
    Corner: C.HP > Hadoken > FADC > C.HP > EX Tatsu - 387/635 (same) [same]

    Corner: CS.HK > L.SRK > EX SRK - 334/420 (314/420) [N/A]

    Corner: F.SRK > FADC > Air EX Tatsu > "fake" U1 - 459/350 (same) [same]
  • exaltedexalted Joined: Posts: 34
    After seeing a lot of recent Ken's successfully using neutral jump crossup tatsu (online Ken vs Daigo, etc.), I need help on its execution.

    It seems like it works on most of the cast, but may require a different timing. Pretty sure it's hardkick tatsu, but does it need to be "karaed"? I've been experimenting and it seems a good time to try this mixup is after a f.shoryuken knockdown where they don't quickstand. Usually after f.shoryuken I FTK -> if they don't quick-stand it seems the nj.crossup tatsu can be fit in. Been experimenting but can't successfully hit every time. After connecting we just c.lk s.lp c.mk ex tatsu?

    Any tips on landing regular jf.crossup Tatsu (not EX)? I used to play Ryu before realizing Ken was the real shoto, and the timing is completely different. Are we usually using lk tatsu because that has the most combo potential?

    On a related question, any tips or good setups to use with EX tatsu? I know both ultras can be "gimmicked" and connect after a crossup EX - any particular requirements or notes on ranges, setups etc.?

    To share some information in the OP: if you don't know how to kara EX tatsu you definitely need to learn. It's very easy (similar to Kara throw) and is incredible. I can't believe they removed Ryu/Akuma's escape tatsu and left this in. His kara-EX tatsu literally helicopters across the entire screen and is nigh unpunishable. His regular kara-tatsu also has very good range but I feel is unreliable as EX is too likely to come out. Videos explaining the concept:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP2G1rmKvv0
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL0SV60RVUk (basically you plink hk/mk for the kara-EX to come out)
  • SorenSoren Joined: Posts: 26
    After seeing a lot of recent Ken's successfully using neutral jump crossup tatsu (online Ken vs Daigo, etc.), I need help on its execution.

    It seems like it works on most of the cast, but may require a different timing. Pretty sure it's hardkick tatsu, but does it need to be "karaed"? I've been experimenting and it seems a good time to try this mixup is after a f.shoryuken knockdown where they don't quickstand. Usually after f.shoryuken I FTK -> if they don't quick-stand it seems the nj.crossup tatsu can be fit in. Been experimenting but can't successfully hit every time. After connecting we just c.lk s.lp c.mk ex tatsu?

    It's all timing. You have to input the HK Tatsu at the peak of Ken's neutral jump and he'll float forward just enough for it to cross-up. If you do the input too early (on the way up), Ken will just awkwardly float around. If you do the input too late (on the way down), the HK Tatsu will not cross-up. There is nothing that needs to be "karaed." Here's a couple links to JoontheBaboon's posts discussing it (here and here). The most common set-up is forward throw, LK Tatsu (cross-over), neutral jump HK Tatsu but I've seen Banana Ken use it after landing an EX Tatsu combo too on certain characters.
  • darktowndarktown Darktown2 Joined: Posts: 497

    Any tips on landing regular jf.crossup Tatsu (not EX)? I used to play Ryu before realizing Ken was the real shoto, and the timing is completely different. Are we usually using lk tatsu because that has the most combo potential?

    an easy setup to land this and get a combo is normal throw take a step back air lk tatsu and you can get a short or jab if it hits, the nj hk tatsu you just have to do it at the peak of ken's jump it is pretty easy to do
    psn: darkTown2
    3s: ken, shotos, yang, dudley, urien
  • maikeru671maikeru671 Joined: Posts: 69
    yea i been messing with that neutral jump hk tatsu. one setup you can use is you throw them, jump over them, neutral jump then hk tatsu and youll cross up. but when i throw someone and wait for them to get up to do the neutral jump tatsu, i fuck it up.
  • darktowndarktown Darktown2 Joined: Posts: 497
    yea i been messing with that neutral jump hk tatsu. one setup you can use is you throw them, jump over them, neutral jump then hk tatsu and youll cross up. but when i throw someone and wait for them to get up to do the neutral jump tatsu, i fuck it up.

    just practice getting the tatsu at the peak of your jump and don't try to do it so much on your opponent do it once and mix it up, also by the way you worded it don't wait for them to get up throw them take a step forward then do it because they can dp you if you wait to long
    psn: darkTown2
    3s: ken, shotos, yang, dudley, urien
  • G77G77 Master Theory Fighter! Joined: Posts: 876
    The easiest way to get the correct timing is:

    Forward throw, immediate jump forward (change of sides), immediate neutral jump, HK tatsu at peak of jump (crosses back over to original side).

    It is very awkward and whiffs if timed even slightly wrong. It is also unreliable if your opponent crouches.

    Know about it, throw it out every once in a while maybe (can be good for avoiding some reversals), but I wouldn't rely on it.

    Peace,

    G.
  • IkaruIkaru Registered Pro Joined: Posts: 1,233
    I've been using jumping heavy tatsu to get in quick, hopefully it actually hits them (hit or block is fine imo) lol. My mentor Banana Ken was using it so I gave it a try and it's not bad.
    AE2012 - Ken
    KoFXIII - Kyo/Undecided/Undecided(
    MvC3 - Dante/Vergil/Undecided
    AH3 - Clarice
  • G77G77 Master Theory Fighter! Joined: Posts: 876
    I use this too. I tend to try it on characters that can zone Ken out well or when their normals make life hard for Ken's footsies.

    Basically, Rose, Seth and sometimes Akuma will make me think about it.

    Using tatsus to alter Ken's jump arcs in open play is possibly one of his most overlooked capabilities...

    Peace,

    G.
  • JoontheBaboonJoontheBaboon Ken Masters. Joined: Posts: 1,518
    I use this too. I tend to try it on characters that can zone Ken out well or when their normals make life hard for Ken's footsies.

    Basically, Rose, Seth and sometimes Akuma will make me think about it.

    Using tatsus to alter Ken's jump arcs in open play is possibly one of his most overlooked capabilities...

    Peace,

    G.

    I completely agree.

    Character Hitbox does play a role in NJ X HK Tatsu, but the most important part is how close you are to your opponent when you Neutral Jump. If the opponent's head is facing towards you (ex: Throw), it'll be harder to cross-up because they wake up slightly farther away than when their feet is facing towards you.

    So the best time to do it is after EX Tatsu (or MK/HK Tatsu if you do it up-close) because Ken always lands right next to the opponent, or after a knock down when the opponent's feet is facing towards you ("hug" your opponent's corpse).
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  • DanJackKnifeDanJackKnife Joined: Posts: 78
    Good content G77! :)
  • ImagineVCImagineVC open your mind Joined: Posts: 5,037
    amazing thread so far.
    frame data for vanilla, super AND AE plus Hitbox info!?
    congratulations G77 and keep up the great work :)
  • G77G77 Master Theory Fighter! Joined: Posts: 876
    I can't take any of the credit here. Joon put in the hard work, I am merely the custodian.

    My aim is to keep it organised and easy to understand. I'll also do my best to take on suggestions etc.

    Peace,

    G.
  • TouchdownTouchdown Joined: Posts: 499
    Focus Attack lvl 1 - (22/-2)
    Focus Attack lvl 2 - (17+13/+4)
    Focus Attack lvl 3 - (68)

    LP SRK - (3/11/18+8/-20/KD)
    MP SRK - (4/3*11/25+14/-29/KD)
    HP SRK - (3/2*2*12/30+9/-30/KD)
    EX SRK - (4/2*2*2*6/45+9/-41/KD)
    This is an Epic thread! Thank you G77!!
    How do I read where the invincibility frames are for all of Ken's Shoryuken's?
    Also does the frame data on the focus attack have the start up for the attack of the focus attack [when realesed] for each level?
    "I see many intermediate to intermediate-advanced players stuck in the realm of theory fighting. They are stuck in their minds, hung up on making “the right decision” at every point in the game..These players don’t play with enough intuition, with enough “feeling,” with enough creativity, unpredictability, and daring..."
  • G77G77 Master Theory Fighter! Joined: Posts: 876
    Edit News: 16/07/2011.

    First post restructured drastically.
    Full Focus Attack Frame Data included.
    SRK invincibility info added.

    Keep an eye on this post here for further edits and updates...

    Peace,

    G.
  • NaachNaach (╯°□°)╯ ︵ ┻━┻ Joined: Posts: 162
    thanks for bringing this up guys, been looking all over for it

    keep it up :)
    iMash
  • JoontheBaboonJoontheBaboon Ken Masters. Joined: Posts: 1,518
    Since Ken L. SRK's damage increased to 120 in AE, it looks like AE Ken's max punish with 1 meter in the corner is CS. HK > L. SRK > EX SRK - 334/420/-180.

    (compared to Super Ken's max punish with 1 meter in the corner which was CS. HK > EX Tatsu - 320/450/-190).

    30 less stun, but 10 more meter gain and KD :tup:.
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  • CommonerChaosCommonerChaos Joined: Posts: 130
    OK, this is something that I've been wondering about for awhile now, and and that's how to best deal with focus attack abusers? I'll be zoning with cr.mk xx hadouken, and and they'll absorb the cr. mk and the hadouken won't even come out. So wat are the best ways to deal with focus attack spammers with Ken?
    Add me on XBL.
    Gamertag: CommonerChaos
  • Bodie21Bodie21 Joined: Posts: 61
    mix it up with cr.mk xx ex tatsu.. that blows up focus REAL quick.. One or two of those will put a stop to that..
    xbl: TriggerHappyG19
  • darktowndarktown Darktown2 Joined: Posts: 497
    OK, this is something that I've been wondering about for awhile now, and and that's how to best deal with focus attack abusers? I'll be zoning with cr.mk xx hadouken, and and they'll absorb the cr. mk and the hadouken won't even come out. So wat are the best ways to deal with focus attack spammers with Ken?

    why isn't your hado coming out? that is normally how i blow through it.
    psn: darkTown2
    3s: ken, shotos, yang, dudley, urien
  • Bodie21Bodie21 Joined: Posts: 61
    The Hadoken starts up in 14 frames where the ex tatsu is 6 frame startup, and not to mention the damage.. It wouldn't be something to stick out constantly like the semi "safe" cr. mk xx hado obviously . Anyways if U see someone focus fishing blow it up with the ex tatsu cancel and at least you get a free mixup lol.. One or two of those should make them think twice about doing that.
    xbl: TriggerHappyG19
  • JoontheBaboonJoontheBaboon Ken Masters. Joined: Posts: 1,518
    ^Agree! C. MK > EX Tatsu also punishes their Back Dash. But sometimes Level 2 FA hits the Tatsu at C. MK max distance, so I like to throw in C. MK > SRK here and there. Or I just raw EX Tatsu (Armor Break) on reaction to their Focus (Note: this is assuming that the opponent is a Focus Spammer and he's committing to release his FA2 after he absorbs any move).

    P.S. I'll be moving this thread to "Ken General Discussion Thread" tomorrow. Please post there if you have any technical questions.
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  • ImagineVCImagineVC open your mind Joined: Posts: 5,037
    usually when people ask me how to beat Ken, i say "Focus attack is Ken's weakness because he has no 2-hit normals and none of his specials are true armor breakers."
    best bet is cr.mk> fp.srk but even that is hard to get out on reaction. i also have a hard time against opponents who are really good at focusing. especially if they know the matchup, they will focus at max step kick distance and max cr.mk distance.
    so to answer your question, i switch up my style completely and just have to play way more cautiously, zone them out, don't play the footsie game.
  • VemVem Joined: Posts: 4
    Hey, I'm a relatively new ken player and I had a question regarding his c.lk, c.lp, c.mk combo. When I try to do this combo, I can only get it off about half the time (for some reason I have problems linking the c.mk). Is there a trick to doing this consistently?
  • IkaruIkaru Registered Pro Joined: Posts: 1,233
    Have you tried plinking it? That may help with the timing but I don't plink it myself.

    check this out and you'll get it down real quick. =P http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCP1sVYUxGQ
    AE2012 - Ken
    KoFXIII - Kyo/Undecided/Undecided(
    MvC3 - Dante/Vergil/Undecided
    AH3 - Clarice
  • VemVem Joined: Posts: 4
    I haven't, mostly because until today, I didn't even know what a plink was :sweat:. Thanks for the advice :D
  • Bryanv2Bryanv2 BryanJ Joined: Posts: 1,646
    Its all about timing, practice, practice. I use a controller and can pull it of all the time cause I know when to hit the C.mk. Also idk if you need this at all, but doing it from a standing jab is a lot easier (And Ken can hit like 5 normals and still link into Ex Tat lol). When I began I used to do, (Cr.lk) Cr. lp, St. Lp, Cr. Mk, Tatsu. Since im guessing youre going for a tatsu not a shoryuken with your cr. combo, else jab jab SRK is fine to start with.

    But I just freestyle depending on the distance so lol
    UMVC3: Main : Dante/Vergil/Strider (mag). Alt 1#: Wolverine/Dante/Akuma. Alt 2# Spencer/Vergil/Hawkeye. Alt 3#: Wesker/Anything
    Bait Reversal Fighter 4 AE: Main: Ken - Alts: Akuma, Seth, Ibuki. (Low HP lets go ;_;)
    BB CS2: Bang (Meh..), Makoto, Platinum
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  • maikeru671maikeru671 Joined: Posts: 69
    try to plink that medium kick like ikaru said. so you do c.lk > c.lp > c.lk + medium kick, but you're not pushing those buttons together, youre hitting c.lk then c.mk but in a very fast motion. it's mostly timing man. and what can also help you is to watch when the c.lp retracts, right when you see it retract you plink c.lk and c.mk. after practicing this many times it will be second nature to you.
  • GetTheFruitGetTheFruit Joined: Posts: 332
    I agree 100% with ImagineVC =/
  • VemVem Joined: Posts: 4
    Thanks for all the advice. I've raised my success rate considerably (still not 100%, but I'm getting there... hopefully :))
  • G77G77 Master Theory Fighter! Joined: Posts: 876
    Ken's tatsu is a true armour breaker. I'm not sure what you mean when you say he doesn't have a true armour breaker.

    My preferred method of counteracting focus spammers is raw EX fireballs around max step kick range and EX tatsu or RH tatsu on reaction to the start-up of the focus attack.

    Peace,

    G.
  • IkaruIkaru Registered Pro Joined: Posts: 1,233
    Just to correct maikeru, you plink in order from strong to weak. So it's drumming across medium kick to light kick but almost as if you're pressing both at the same time. It needs to be that fast. Glad it's working out for you. When you get the plinking down for that link try to do it without plinking and see if your timing improved!
    AE2012 - Ken
    KoFXIII - Kyo/Undecided/Undecided(
    MvC3 - Dante/Vergil/Undecided
    AH3 - Clarice
  • TouchdownTouchdown Joined: Posts: 499
    If you don't "plink," you have to DELAY the timing of pressing cMK. button after the cr. Jab.
    "I see many intermediate to intermediate-advanced players stuck in the realm of theory fighting. They are stuck in their minds, hung up on making “the right decision” at every point in the game..These players don’t play with enough intuition, with enough “feeling,” with enough creativity, unpredictability, and daring..."
  • VemVem Joined: Posts: 4
    Is there any advantage to doing c.lk, c.lp, c.mk, vs. c.lp, s.lp, c.mk? I've been finding (as Bryanv2 said earlier) that linking standing lp to crouching mk is much, much easier.
  • koudokoudo Joined: Posts: 44
    Is there any advantage to doing c.lk, c.lp, c.mk, vs. c.lp, s.lp, c.mk? I've been finding (as Bryanv2 said earlier) that linking standing lp to crouching mk is much, much easier.

    Sometimes the s.lp can whiff depending on the character/distance. Other than that like you said it is easier to link cr.mk from s.lp because s.lp causes more hit stun than cr.lp.
  • darktowndarktown Darktown2 Joined: Posts: 497
    Is there any advantage to doing c.lk, c.lp, c.mk, vs. c.lp, s.lp, c.mk? I've been finding (as Bryanv2 said earlier) that linking standing lp to crouching mk is much, much easier.
    you should do c. lk, c.lp, s.lp, c.mk that is a really easy combo to do and it doesn't require much execution to pull off and it is considered a bnb of ken's. out of those to you should really start with c.lk for the second one as well, but the c.lp, s.lp, c.mk is better because as you said it is much easier to pull off making it more viable because of the hit stun
    psn: darkTown2
    3s: ken, shotos, yang, dudley, urien
  • maikeru671maikeru671 Joined: Posts: 69
    Just to correct maikeru, you plink in order from strong to weak. So it's drumming across medium kick to light kick but almost as if you're pressing both at the same time. It needs to be that fast. Glad it's working out for you. When you get the plinking down for that link try to do it without plinking and see if your timing improved!
    thanks for the correction man, After i read it i was like whew. lol.
  • HigashibashiHigashibashi Joined: Posts: 140
    I'm really struggling with the simple s.mk to s.mp in training. I've passed the trial but I can't consistently do it without Dan blocking the move. Which means I'm doing it too slow, but how the hell can you press it faster??
  • IkaruIkaru Registered Pro Joined: Posts: 1,233
    plink it, drum fingers across MP to LP.
    AE2012 - Ken
    KoFXIII - Kyo/Undecided/Undecided(
    MvC3 - Dante/Vergil/Undecided
    AH3 - Clarice
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