Is Yang Relevant?

CHIMAsamune

Everyone always talks about how the twins are a problem but I don't thin Yang deserves to be grouped with Yun as the problem. No one uses Yang. I don't see why anyone choosing a character for competitive reasons would choose Yang when Yun is available and if you don't like that type of character, then you choose a different yet effective character like Fei, or Makoto. Despite the fact that most people would say that Yang is the second or third best character, There is no Yang in top 8 at Evo. I'm sure there were a few here and there, but from listening to what UltraDavid was talking about on the stream, not a lot of people were using him and that holds true to my experience playing online. I think it sucks for the character ranked second/ third out of 39 to be getting such little love because there's a "better" version of that character who is the best....

I dunno. I'm not mad or anything. I enjoy Yang more than Yun and will stick with him (I also like to go against the crowd). I'm just questioning his relevance and wondering what everyone else thinks about this.

Staying Free

Commentators seemed out of it today. Lots of wrong information being given. Yang is definitely one of the best, and has the potential to be the best. You say there is no reason to choose Yang when you can choose Yun.

Well, Yang has a teleport that functions quite similarly to Abel's roll. Yang has a better safe pressure game than Yun. Yang has FADC DP. Better Ultras and can combo into both of them for good damage. Yang's dive kick is safer than Yun's. In one minute, I have came up with reasons to pick Yang instead.

CHIMAsamune

Sorry. Maybe I over exaggerated when I said "no reason" to choose Yang over Yun. But from what I've seen, those reasons aren't enough to get most people to choose him over Yun. Who knows. Maybe I just keeping missing most of the Yangs online and I'm missing most of them on streams and stuff. Still, you would expect a character as good as Yang to be played more by top players and in tournaments yet significantly more people talk about how they are switching or have switched to Yun. Things could change and people might start switching, but as of now, it seems like Yang doesn't exist.

Wasted

Lol.

Why does anybody care if Yang is represented or not? Fact is, Yang is just like the other 35 characters that exist aside from Fei or Yun - till Yun gets nerfed, people will always flock to him.

HAV

Nobody uses Yang?

Last I checked, it seemed like EVERYBODY, at least has a pocket Yang.

fokkusuhaundo

AE just came out on consoles a month ago, so you can't expect there to be many American Yang players that can play him at a high enough level to compete with Asia's top arcade players that have been playing AE for over half a year, not even the American players that live near an arcade with AE cabs because many of those players were still playing Super back then as it was the only version of SF4 used in console tournaments.

Tryken

I just brought it up in the Orlando Fighting Game Community. Yang is a solid character, he's upper tier, but when he came out everyone was screaming "Nerf the twins!" But I think a lot of it was spill-over from Yun.

In fact, I think the Yun blow-up is what allowed Fei Long's god-tierness to go so long without being really spoken too much about. EVO top 8 and 32 really shows the lack of Yang, and the extreme strength of Yun and Fei.

Yang is upper tier, in my opinion, but god-tier belongs to Yun and Fei.

ShadolooDoll

lol Yang is really, really, REALLY good. People just overlook this guy in favor of Yun because well... quite frankly he's stupid good.

EmblemLord

Yun allows you to be dumb and not be AS good as a Yang main to see results. Yang is much better up close though. Yun is better at being bullshit and and getting random damage from said bullshit.

DirtySanchez

its just that nemo didnt attend evo sadly....

LordJim

Even if you are a great character, not everyone is being repped.
Nobody in the US plays Yang that well, and unlike Yun and Fei, no Yang grandmasters came for a visit.
Sad, but what to do

pills

yang is definitely really good in this game but i think the reason he is not "well represented" in the higher level games is because the way he plays. Like he can play really safe and has good buttons, dmg, combos, ultra, etc, but he can't go on balls out offense like the characters like yun, akuma, makoto, and the other characters like them.

Like in comparison to yun, yeah yangs got safer dive kicks, better palms, safer pressure, fadc-able dp, better footsies, and GREAT buttons close range like his st lp and close st mp(the +4 on blk is gdlk). However, yun has got no height restriction on the dive kicks which is MUUCH better for pressure(not to mention much more useful for cmd grab setups), he has a Faster cmd grab, his reversal kicks are not fadcable but the range you move generally puts you at an unpunishable range so it becomes a reversal that should be high risk high reward but instead mid risk high reward, he doesnt really have footsies but he has the faster target combo(tat does more stun, builds more meter, but recovers like 2 frame slower than yangs) and he has the reaaaaalllllllyyyy far reaching st mp that can cancel into light shoulders AND after the light shoulders, its perfect range to do cr mk to fish for cntr hit, and he also has a much faster mixup game than yang. Not to mention the fact that yun is soooooooooo much more easier to use than yang lol.

Either way im glad he is kind of not represented in tourneys too well and stuff because i don't want him to be nerfed stupidly hard along with yun because of the twin hate. If anything i say make his overhead throwable, get rid of his wakeup glitch, and make his wakeup as fast as the rest of the cast(i think yang and yun have faster wakeup like super's adon)

Wasted

.....yes, he can. Precisely BECAUSE his shit is so safe, he's ridiculous at straight out offense - but of course, not on the same level as Yun in this regard. Saying he cannot do so is like saying Fei cannot go balls-to-the-wall offensive. His offense is probably up there with Akuma in terms of how opponents get frustrated.

as for Yun being easier to use, YMMV. Every single player in my area says Yang is easier to pick up. He's so much easier to transition to from a Shoto than Yun.

Westlo

Who cares that no Yangs made Top 32 @ Evo, was there any grandmaster Yang players from Japan who went? And lets not forget who's the second most qualified character in SBO....

HAV

Yeah, this notion that Yang "isn't used" at top level, just because he wasn't represented at ONE tournament, doesn't mean anything.

Yang has a LOT of representation in Japan, with strong Yang mains... and seemingly EVERYONE developing a pocket Yang, either for a full-time switch, or just to have.

You guys are so reactionary. The idea that you can make a statement like "Yang is not relevant to top level play" because of one tournament, is so silly.

CH_Cypher

I like Yang, gonna keep playing Yang, that is all that matters for me.

pills

I still think the fact that there wasn't a single yang in top32 is odd when yun and fei so well reped at evo, not saying yang loses to these 2(ABSOLUTELY NOT) . I think this due to the fact that he is harder to play at higher play. Definitely easy to pik up tho. And don't say that he wasn't repped because no grandmaster from japn came because that just proves my point. Either way point is that yang is "relevant," although I have to say that calling a character relevant or not is a bit weird

I think he is a lot like Abel, in vanilla ppl slept on him but in japan there was shiro tearing it up with him. Look at him now, he is nerfed as ever but both strider and juicebox representing Abel so well

Alioune

Wtf with this thread , u should be happy having a pocket Yang is not enough to get top 32 at evo . Character tier and tournament placing are 2 different things.

Lucan

Yang is a great character but yeah, so much talk about Yun probably overshadowed him.

NissanZaxima

Yea Yang is reallly reallly good. You will see him being used a lot more in the U.S. soon because up close Yang can....

Oh nevermind, Capcom is patching this game again... ill be moving along now.

Gauge

Yang is becoming less and less relevant. There are sooo many Yun tutorials and not many for Yang. There are tons of videos showing how to utilize Yun's super but so little for Yangs. Btw the ones they do have for Yang say the same thing over and over again. Pro's who have adopted Yang have already dropped him. Its pretty sad.......Yang is my fave character but he really is becoming less relevant. Even in these forums i get less and less alerts of new activity.....guess no one cares anymore

HAV

Gauge, post: 5648846 wrote:

Yang is becoming less and less relevant. There are sooo many Yun tutorials and not many for Yang. There are tons of videos showing how to utilize Yun's super but so little for Yangs. Btw the ones they do have for Yang say the same thing over and over again. Pro's who have adopted Yang have already dropped him. Its pretty sad.......Yang is my fave character but he really is becoming less relevant. Even in these forums i get less and less alerts of new activity.....guess no one cares anymore

None of what you just said matters at all.

Renegade TX2000

lol I wonder who you will main HAV. if dudley becomes even better i can see you going to him already o_O

Gauge

HAV, post: 5648869 wrote:

None of what you just said matters at all.

damn, could you put a little more energy into disputing what i Said? Perhaps something that makes sense....
I love Yang and would like more support for him than whats being given, but with weak responses like that I dont see it happening...

NissanZaxima

Gauge, post: 5649378 wrote:

damn, could you put a little more energy into disputing what i Said? Perhaps something that makes sense....
I love Yang and would like more support for him than whats being given, but with weak responses like that I dont see it happening...

There are sooo many Yun tutorials and not many for Yang.

What??? Are you just saying this because Cross Counter released one? Even if their are more "tutorials" that doesn't mean anything. Simply means more Yun players have the resources (equipment, time, etc.) and desire to make more tutorials.

There are tons of videos showing how to utilize Yun's super but so little for Yangs.

Basically the same as above

Btw the ones they do have for Yang say the same thing over and over again.

What tutorials do you speak of? I would be almost certain that most Yun video are probably similar. The Yang Lab thread has some amazing videos for OS's and what not. Also Xian put up a brilliant video in the Yang video thread with some sick safe jump set ups. Good Yang vid/tutorials are there you just have to look.

Pro's who have adopted Yang have already dropped him

You are probably referring to Justin and possibly Floe? The good Japanese Yangs have still stuck with him and are bodying people with him.

Basically your arguments come down to videos and certain players dropping the character. You don't really give any actual examples about the design of Yang to prove your argument. Just videos and a couple guys have dropped him. People drop characters all the time.

otori

Lol Nissan, you try too hard.

Here you go Gauge.

Gauge

Do you even know what my Arguement is? It wasnt that Yang is irrelevant in the game. There I dont need proof to back up that, because its not what i was stating. I was simply saying they he was "becoming" less relevant due to people comparing him alongside his brother. I'm not attacking Yang, or saying he has nothing in the way of tutorials or support. Just saying he has less than his brother. Correct? I believe Yang takes more skill to play and should therefore have MORE support than Yun.

Again I wasnt saying he had none, just less than Yun. If you cant agree that the Spotlight is on Yun a little more than Yang iono what to say...

Gauge

otori, post: 5649473 wrote:

Lol Nissan, you try too hard.

Here you go Gauge.

lolz, Thank You

Westlo

Before saying Yang isn't relevant you really need to look @ who was playing him.. no offense intended but the top american players using Yang as mains aren't @ the elite level... and Justin was playing Rufus... not a single Yang Grandmaster from Japan came as well.. if Nemo or Acqua had came we wouldn't be having this discussion.

doyoudigworms

Yang irrelevant? Hardly, it just takes a lot more to be consistently good with Yang. TBH I lose with Yang more than I win, but each time I play I correct my game a bit more, make better educated guesses and use every opportunity to punish effectively. Yang has always been in his brothers shadow, but he was still relevant in 3S and it's no different then SF4.

otori

Akuma was arguably the best character in Vanilla and no one in the US played him at the top level.

J.Scogz

Last week, everybody said "everybody uses Yun, Yang, and Fei"

Now, after Evo, everybody says "everybody uses Yun and Fei"

O_o? Not that many people changed their mains in a weekend because of Evo.

Awesomersaur

if Yang had 2f links galore like Yun you'd be seeing more of him

but those unplinkable 1f links make a lot of people shy away from him

he reminds me of bison with a divekick... and a FADC shoryu thanks to his incredibly safe pressure

different strokes

otori

His only unplikable 1f link is cr.lk, cr.lp, which you shouldn't be doing anyway. And execution has nothing to do with character representation, Yang is still braindead easy compared to Viper and we got 3 of her in top 8.

kElso712

Alioune, post: 5646009 wrote:

Character tier and tournament placing are 2 different things.

^^ This is about all there is to say about this topic.I will add my opinion nonetheless.

Too bad Yang didn't place top 8 and people are crying about that. Maybe you guys should pick up Viper or Akuma? Hmmm, since Yang isn't relevant you might want to switch to Yun since at top level play he's so good?

Except only for the fact that Yun got raped in top 8. Also for the fact that since he IS the strongest character in the game, people already have developed strategies to counter said character. Can we say the same thing about Yang? No, we cant.. Because he didnt place in ONE tournament. Good shit, FGC.. This is the exact reason the same 20 people win all the majors.

J.Scogz

kElso712, post: 5651466 wrote:

^^ This is about all there is to say about this topic.I will add my opinion nonetheless.

Too bad Yang didn't place top 8 and people are crying about that. Maybe you guys should pick up Viper or Akuma? Hmmm, since Yang isn't relevant you might want to switch to Yun since top level play he so good?

Except only for the fact that Yun got raped in top 8. Also for the fact that since he IS the strongest character in the game, people already have developed strategies to counter said character. Can we say the same thing about Yang? No, we cant.. Because he didnt place in ONE tournament. Good shit, FGC.. This is the exact reason the same 20 people win all the majors.

This, a thousand times over.
People need to get their heads out of their tiers and start learning their matchups.

Dustlooper

otori, post: 5651360 wrote:

His only unplikable 1f link is cr.lk, cr.lp, which you shouldn't be doing anyway. And execution has nothing to do with character representation, Yang is still braindead easy compared to Viper and we got 3 of her in top 8.

Can you plink jab U1? Not saying you can't, but I assume it's a bitch without the 3P button.

otori

I don't think plinking applies to specials. In this case you can double tap/triple tap and get 4-6 chances for the input to come out.

Dustlooper

Like everything in SF4, just mash the shit out of it and hope it works?

CH_Cypher

kElso712, post: 5651466 wrote:

^^ This is about all there is to say about this topic.I will add my opinion nonetheless.

Too bad Yang didn't place top 8 and people are crying about that. Maybe you guys should pick up Viper or Akuma? Hmmm, since Yang isn't relevant you might want to switch to Yun since at top level play he's so good?

Except only for the fact that Yun got raped in top 8. Also for the fact that since he IS the strongest character in the game, people already have developed strategies to counter said character. Can we say the same thing about Yang? No, we cant.. Because he didnt place in ONE tournament. Good shit, FGC.. This is the exact reason the same 20 people win all the majors.

^ This. Case closed.

Ouroborus

yeah, yang is irrelevant, yun forgot he has a long lost brother named rufus.

droX

People talk about tweens as broken god tiers, but Yang is hard to learn, like Akuma I think. Yang is a good character, but no god tier as his brother and even no top tier.
In my opinion there is at least 10 characters which are better:
yun, Fei long Sagat Ken Dictator makoto Zangief Akuma Viper and even Adon.

The fact is :
- low damage input
- no stamina
- and no noob friendly...

NissanZaxima

otori, post: 5651360 wrote:

His only unplikable 1f link is cr.lk, cr.lp, which you shouldn't be doing anyway. And execution has nothing to do with character representation, Yang is still braindead easy compared to Viper and we got 3 of her in top 8.

The two character I play are Viper and Yang and I can personally tell you that Viper is much more "braindead" than Yang.

CHIMAsamune

kElso712, post: 5651466 wrote:

^^ This is about all there is to say about this topic.I will add my opinion nonetheless.

Too bad Yang didn't place top 8 and people are crying about that. Maybe you guys should pick up Viper or Akuma? Hmmm, since Yang isn't relevant you might want to switch to Yun since at top level play he's so good?

Except only for the fact that Yun got raped in top 8. Also for the fact that since he IS the strongest character in the game, people already have developed strategies to counter said character. Can we say the same thing about Yang? No, we cant.. Because he didnt place in ONE tournament. Good shit, FGC.. This is the exact reason the same 20 people win all the majors.

Again, I'm not mad about the lack of Yang representation. I just thought that it was a little odd that everyone complains about the twins and most people consider yang to be in top 3 yet, he still doesn't get used nearly as often as other highly ranked characters. Also, Evo is one tournament, but it't also the biggest tournament. Not only was there no Yang in top 8, I just checked there was no yang in top 32. Tekken 6 had 6 Bobs and 2 Laws in top 8. MvC3 top 8 had 6 teams with Wolverine or Phoenix. I think most people would have expected there to be more Yangs in AE.

Wil

You guys are overreacting way too much. It isn't the end for Yang. Just because he wasn't found in the top 8 doesn't make Yang irrelevant.

Firecotton

Lmao, this is getting so stupid. The reason why there were 3 Yuns in top 8 is that they are sponsored and attent big tourneys often.
Nemo and Acqua aren't sponsored and just couldn't make it to Evo.
And Yun isn't really better than Fei or Yang, it's just that there were 3 badass Yun players at Evo (Momochi, Daigo, Kindevu).
There was not a single american Yun player in top 8, what does that tell us? Go figure.
All three of them are scary as fucks, so yeah, he is and always will be relevant.

NissanZaxima

Yea I actually consider Fei and Yun one step above Yang. I agree for the most part that one of the reasons people put Yang with those 2 because they associate him with Yun.

I also agree about Yang being pretty hard to use. You pretty much have little room for error and your mixups have to be extremely on point. Having a good safe jump/OS game (something I am extremely shitty at but working on) with him too is critical I feel because reversals hurt him like a bitch.

When they rebalance the game I really hope they just leave him completely alone. He doesn't need any nerfs and obviously no buffs. I think a few slight nerfs and he could be a pretty average/not so great character.

De4dEyE

Hello,

I was 1 match away from top 32. Sorry guys. :[ Ran through a good number of pretty good people, then ran into Daigo and then John Choi. :X

Also, Yang is not 'hard' to use by any means. He's just 'harder' to use than Yun. He's relatively straightforward, but he's got a good amount of options that would confuse not so great users.

Awesomersaur

He has several unplinkable attacks should you choose to use them (MP palm FADC forward is +4 IIRC and in order to get max damage BNB out of it you're required to doubletap (or just be godlike) a st jab then link st fierce after). That being said you could go forease of use and just st LK st LP cr MK rekka or whatever but it eats scaling.

And why shouldn't I be using cr LK to LP exactly? It's not like doubletapping is hard or anything, I play Sagat and I hit his cr LPx3 all the goddamn time, it's simply a matter of situational use.

And good on ya Deadeye, hope you had fun.

LordJim

De4dEyE, post: 5654971 wrote:

Hello,

I was 1 match away from top 32. Sorry guys. :[ Ran through a good number of pretty good people, then ran into Daigo and then John Choi. :X

Also, Yang is not 'hard' to use by any means. He's just 'harder' to use than Yun. He's relatively straightforward, but he's got a good amount of options that would confuse not so great users.

It's a shame you were never on stream.
Yang was absent in general, I only saw Floe once.
Good job regardless.

D_Dollars

tbh i'm happy yang is somewhat under the radar far as usa and other regions that aren't japan are concerned. if anything, this may work out if capcom balance the next patch mostly off tournament standings and shit.