Offical SRK AE rebalance Request Thread

Graphf

Since Ono announced that there will now offically be a rebalance of SSF4:AE let's discuss changes we's like to see.(Since a thread like this now makes sense.) STAY ON TOPIC.

(The following are things I want and are NOT representative of the community)


Vega --
- invulnerability frames on Scarlet Terror.
- Combo into Ultra from Cosmic heel (this would justify the neg. frames in AE)
- Better recovery on overhead.
Bison --
- Faster Psycho Crusher
- Ability to cross up with devils reverse/more air mobility
- Change Ultra 2 back to motion input so it is a threat again. (decrease damage if you have to)
Ibuki --
- Fix Her target Combos so they don't whiff on crouching characters (shotos, blanka, ect al)
- Give back Kunai damage
- cr.LK to 3 frames
Fei Long --
- Return him to Super status, he didn't need all the buffs in AE, he was already great.
Ryu --
- Make him master of the fireball again (like ST) he's been nerfed so much he needs buffs now.
- Fast fireballs shuould be faster and slow firballs should be slower.
- He should have sonic boom like recovery making his fireball game something to be feared. (i.e. fireball traps) ;)
Ken --
- Give him is roll from the alpha series
Akuma --
- Raging Demon does more damage it should be the most powerful Ultra in the game.
In General
- Nerf all dive kicks.
- Increase Damage from supers but make Ex moves in general better so there is more of a dilemma in choosing to go either route.
- Nerf all Ultra damage across the board. Effectively taking away/lessening "comeback" mechanics and removing crutches from players.

MTS

and give Gen flight.

Densuo

El Fuerte:
hitbox tweak on jHP to make crossup more reliable
increased frame advantage for gordita sobat and clMK
decreased startup on Quesadilla Bomb
revert Propeller tortilla to vanilla damage.
Decreased startup on clHK
After a succesful clHK allow quesadilla Bomb, gordita sobat, and various normals to hit.
Correct guac trade
correct back run deadzone
correct clHPxx ex run xx slide teleport glitch
fajita buster, equal invincibility like tostada.

TheMeth90

Bison --
- Faster Psycho Crusher
- Ability to cross up with devils reverse/more air mobility
- Change Ultra 2 back to motion input so it is a threat again. (decrease damage if you have to)

Very funny.

otori

Give Seth a belt and a special move where he removes it, becomes Poongko and rapes you.

Jin Masters

BUFF EVIL RYU SO HE CAN BE A COMPETITIVE CHARACTER!!!!!!!!

Mr. X

When Dudley dies and has full Super meter, he should resurrect.

Sosage

A thread like this already exists...existed for almost a week before this one...but I like this one better. :)

Khentimentiu

give hakan a dive kick

Necrotrophic

Make Chun li the same as she was in super. she was not over powered, so there was no excuse to nerf her in the first place. Her u1 has to be fixed more than anything, nobody should fall out of it like rose does.

Dont nerf Yang at all

Scale back Yuns damage a little bit, nothing more.

Make Ryu the same as he was in Super(cr.mk, air tatsu), as well as allowing Akuma to air tatsu correctly

AlboShinobi

Make Guy better. Buff his defense and work on his offense.


-ex sbk should be invincible completely, its already very risky, you can't fadc and its only 4 frames.


- Make run-hk always hit twice on impact or give it more frame advantage on hit to combo consistently.


-Make bushin flip elbow hit overhead like the alpha games


-Improve U1, make it combo mid screen and make it so if first hit connects then you get full ultra because a lot of times it pushes them back!!


-Increase U2 range, and use the same input leniency as ssf4


-Make ex izuna throw invincible to other throws.

-Increase walk speed


-Enable ex hozzanto connect after bushin chain flip combo.


*Give all characters new moves to make the game more fun and diverse.

ShadolooDoll

Please make Bison's crouch heavy punch a viable anti-air.... reduce the start up. He never had reliable anti-air tools and the one anti air he did have (stand heavy kick) you reduced the damage to hurt him with trades.

Killer_Jigglypuff

Yun changes:

EX Lunge - 1 on block, making it possible to keep him out with a smart ground game.
Command Grab range nerf. Hurts Yun a bit up close but not enough to make him not scary anymore.
Stun reduction, perhaps down to 900 stun. Him having the same stun as Ryu seems a bit excessive considering his offensive options.

And done.

cjackson3

Please give Cammy back her TKCS. You know you made a mistake Ono :-) You put it back in SFxTekken...

HNIC Mike

Graphf, post: 5643469 wrote:

Fei Long --
- Return him to Super status, he didn't need all the buffs in AE, he was already great.

oh yee of little knowledge.

fei buffs from super to AE-

jab to sweep combo
EX rekkas safe on block

fei long nerfs from super to AE-

roundhouse chickenwing loses all invulnerability

so you want him to have 18 invulnerability frames on a wake up attack that combos to 360+ dmg? fei longs biggest buff was the nerfs to everyone else, and the areas where he was actually improved arent what should qualify as "all the buffs"

on a side note people should try to think objectively. if everyone else is going to get buffs, fei long for example could probrably stand to be left as is.nerfing him while beefing up the rest would put him in low mid, real fast.

if they take the normal capcom sf4 route, which is to just nerf the top, balancing would be much easier. even if it does make the game more boring. just drop some of fei's damage, and weaken the twins palms, super dmg, and command grabs

Neo-Tokyo Chris

Ryu: Restore his corner-escape air-tatsu. Restore his active frames/hitbox for his crouching medium kick.

Cammy: Allow her to do her Cannon Strike earlier in the jump.

TheMeth90

SniperNightOwl, post: 5643635 wrote:

Please make Bison's crouch heavy punch a viable anti-air.... reduce the start up. He never had reliable anti-air tools and the one anti air he did have (stand heavy kick) you reduced the damage to hurt him with trades.

This is one of the weakness of the character, if you make that, you make Bison broken, come on... all posts in this thread are so funny ah ah.

ShadolooDoll

Yun- give his shoulder more cool down on block (punishable.) It's stupid how safe it is and allows him to frame trap you.
Ex lunge punch needs to be either punishable or negative on block, its way too good and is a "get in for free"
nerf command grab, it really makes his offense and mixup too overwhelming for many characters
nerf his meter gain rate... give him the guile treatment. His meter gain and dangerous super is an unfair combination

RindoukanKarateMan

Jin Masters, post: 5643564 wrote:

BUFF EVIL RYU SO HE CAN BE A COMPETITIVE CHARACTER!!!!!!!!

Mr. Naps would like to have a word with you.

Ramma

1. Better blockstrings that aren't 1 frame links. I'm saying make her Yun, but at least make her Ryu.
2. I think something as small as 50 more HP would be an easy fix and would give her a solid boost. Hell, they could leave the stun as is if they want.
3. Fix EX Pinwheel - How she is considered grounded and throw-able is beyond me. She's practically spinning in the air. She needs a solid wake-up option.
4. Fix Ultra 2 - You shouldn't be able to fall out of it. You shouldn't be able to walk in it or be throw Juri out of it. Give it something. Make you have to block it low or make it a solid anti-air. Have it suck the opponent in. SOMETHING.
5. Fix BnB - Her BnB should NOT be character specific. It is ridiculous that is it.
6. Wouldn't mind seeing a target combo either.
7. Make LK pinwheel safe on block. Can she have at least one friggin thing in this game that is safe. Don't say fireball store, because it can whiff.
8. Ex Fireballs should go full screen.

I'd be happy with half this list. The whole list would make her B Tier at most.

For AKUMA's Ultra/Super:
1. Raging Demon (Super) should go through normal projectiles. Asking the ultra to do that is a bit unfair, but the super going through it would be nice.
2. You should not be able to throw Akuma out of his Ultra (no joke, it can be done).
3. The second activated Ultra 1 or Super needs to always win. Sometimes the first one activated wins. It's stupid.

Graphf

Sosage, post: 5643611 wrote:

A thread like this already exists...existed for almost a week before this one...but I like this one better. :)

the other thread seemed to be asking for the reblance to happen. This thread is about the reblance it self and what we want to happen now that a rebalance is going to happen.

But ya, I like this thread more too. But lets stay focused.

Also, Mods. Could you possibly delete the posts that are not contributing or are obviously jokes? That would help keep the thread clean and on track. Discussion is ok insofar as it has to do with possible changes, i.e., would change X make character Y too weak or too powerful, ect...

edit: SuperNightOwl -- I agree. They could also just move his hittable box back further thus making the move a threat again.

ShadolooDoll

TheMeth90, post: 5643649 wrote:

This is one of the weakness of the character, if you make that, you make Bison broken, come on... all posts in this thread are so funny ah ah.

his weakness is low damage (which was further exacerbated with stand heavy kick damage nerf), and poor comeback potential. It would NOT break him. Didn't even ask for U2 fixing or anything else. BTW I don't see you contributing anything here so why don't you get out?

Graphf, post: 5643662 wrote:

Also, Mods. Could you possibly delete the posts that are not contributing or are obviously jokes? That would help keep the thread clean and on track. Discussion is ok insofar as it has to do with possible changes, i.e., would change X make character Y too weak or too powerful, ect...

This. Looks like I was ninja'd.

HNIC Mike

TheMeth90, post: 5643649 wrote:

This is one of the weakness of the character, if you make that, you make Bison broken, come on... all posts in this thread are so funny ah ah.

i dunno if its broken, but i agree, bison dosent need much help

RindoukanKarateMan

Graphf, post: 5643469 wrote:

Since Ono announced that there will now offically be a rebalance of SSF4:AE let's discuss changes we's like to see.(Since a thread like this now makes sense.) STAY ON TOPIC.

Vega --
- invulnerability frames on Scarlet Terror.
- Combo into Ultra from Cosmic heel (this would justify the neg. frames in AE)
- Better recovery on overhead.
- Needs a 3 frame move cr.LK or standing Lk would do fine

Bison --
- Faster Psycho Crusher
- Ability to cross up with devils reverse/more air mobility
- Change Ultra 2 back to motion input so it is a threat again. (decrease damage if you have to)

Ibuki --
- Give back Kunai damage
- cr.LK to 3 frames

Fei Long --
- Return him to Super status, he didn't need all the buffs in AE, he was already great.
Ryu --
- Make him master of the fireball again (like ST) he's been nerfed so much he needs buffs now.
- Fast fireballs shuould be faster and slow firballs should be slower.
- He should have sonic boom like recovery making his fireball game something to be feared. (i.e. fireball traps)

Ken --
- Give him is roll from the alpha series

Akuma --
- Raging Demon does more damage itshoud be the most powerful Ultra in the game.

In General

- Nerf all dive kicks.
- Increase Damage from supers but make Ex moves in general better so there is more of a dilemma in choosing to go either route.
- Super meter should not carry over between rounds (ST style) Use it or lose. This way people fight instead of wiffing moves if they think they will lose. (controversial I know but think about it)
- Nerf all Ultra damage across the board. Effectively taking away/lessening "comback" mechanics and removing crutches from players.

The closer the game gets to ST the better it will be over all and I think removing Super meter each round will force people to get to know there normals, start to zone better and play more footsies. The same applies with the Ultra damage nerfs I'd like to see. Take away crutches!!

give ryu the same recovery as guile on projectiles? his recovery is already good. You want this to become hadouken fighter 4?

ThatKenPlayer

When is this update coming out? the USA just got this last month

EDIT: Make Hakan's S.HP an over head

ShadolooDoll

HNIC Mike, post: 5643666 wrote:

i dunno if its broken, but i agree, bison dosent need much help

yeah he doesn't, I just think he deserves a viable AA after his only good one that isn't even reliable (you need to be spaced correctly) received a damage nerf that hurts him trade wise.

HNIC Mike

i have one request for my main.

make gens anti air ultra fast enough to be an anti air ultra

ThatKenPlayer

This is capcom's new theme song

ShadolooDoll

Juri:

1. Fix her U2- people keep falling out of it even when it lands. If she hits you with it you should go into the animation and take damage



2. Ex pinwheel- fix the hitbox in the back. It makes no sense that when the move is still active and her legs are spinning that it doesn't hurt them and you get punished for it

also dat juri bp glitch. Would like my B ranked Juri back please >.>

Densuo

SniperNightOwl, post: 5643654 wrote:

Yun- give his shoulder more cool down on block (punishable.) It's stupid how safe it is and allows him to frame trap you.
Ex lunge punch needs to be either punishable or negative on block, its way too good and is a "get in for free"
nerf command grab, it really makes his offense and mixup too overwhelming for many characters
nerf his meter gain rate... give him the guile treatment. His meter gain and dangerous super is an unfair combination

you're obviously scared of shoulder. Yun's Shoulder is punishable.

Ex lunge at -1 is prolly good.

TheMeth90

SniperNightOwl, post: 5643661 wrote:

his weakness is low damage (which was further exacerbated with stand heavy kick damage nerf), and poor comeback potential. It would NOT break him. Didn't even ask for U2 fixing or anything else. BTW I don't see you contributing anything here so why don't you get out?

This. Looks like I was ninja'd.

Yes and troubles with close jumps is one of his weakness, his crouch hp is bad, it's volontary by the devs.

You don't need to make a come back, or to make big damages with him, you turtle, play footsies, strong zoning, pokes and that's all.

ShadolooDoll

Densuo, post: 5643714 wrote:

you're obviously scared of shoulder. Yun's Shoulder is punishable.

Ex lunge at -1 is prolly good.

really? How he seems out of range to punish with the characters I use? How do you punish it?

ShadolooDoll

TheMeth90, post: 5643723 wrote:

Yes and troubles with close jumps is one of his weakness, his crouch hp is bad, it's volontary by the devs.

You don't need to make a come back, or to make big damages with him, you turtle, play footsies, strong zoning, pokes and that's all.

No Bisons made even top 32 at EVO. Did you see what happened to Yipes? To Jago (not at evo at a different tourny which caused him to drop dictator)? Maybe it would be okay if the twins got nerfed because you can't turtle twins with their get in moves.

edit: oops double post sorry

tl;dr
your stuff is all nice theoryfighter, but in reality it's not that simple (or in some situations, possible quite frankly.) If it was he would be doing more work.

HNIC Mike

SniperNightOwl, post: 5643692 wrote:

yeah he doesn't, I just think he deserves a viable AA after his only good one that isn't even reliable (you need to be spaced correctly) received a damage nerf that hurts him trade wise.

its like his one character weakness. if his AA is good with the groundgame and rushdown he has, he becomes really strong. which is ok i guess if everyone is getting help.

however, i dont think everyone should get tons of buffs tho. just my opinion, and i may be in the minority, so i hope i dont get killed for saying this, but i hope all the characters maintain some form of weakness. or the ones that dont have enough should be given some.

weak spots make the characters more interesting to use IMO. if you have to find ways to work around your own, and exploit your opponents, the game is more interesting than who has the strongest bullshit, try and block this mixup

ShadolooDoll

HNIC Mike, post: 5643745 wrote:

its like his one character weakness. if his AA is good with the groundgame and rushdown he has, he becomes really strong. which is ok i guess if everyone is getting help.

however, i dont think everyone should get tons of buffs tho. just my opinion, and i may be in the minority, so i hope i dont get killed for saying this, but i hope all the characters maintain some form of weakness. or the ones that dont have enough should be given some.

weak spots make the characters more interesting to use IMO. if you have to find ways to work around your own, and exploit your opponents, the game is more interesting than who has the strongest bullshit, try and block this mixup

yeah i agree. If anything was done to him that would be it if other characters got buffed. Honestly if they just nerfed the twins (Yun more so than Yang) I'd be happy. Don't get me wrong Bison is solid right now, i was assuming if the whole cast received a facelift he should get that. Like with juri it's not really buffs it's more like fixing....

Graphf

HNIC Mike, post: 5643646 wrote:

oh yee of little knowledge.

fei buffs from super to AE-

jab to sweep combo
EX rekkas safe on block

fei long nerfs from super to AE-

roundhouse chickenwing loses all invulnerability

so you want him to have 18 invulnerability frames on a wake up attack that combos to 360+ dmg? fei longs biggest buff was the nerfs to everyone else, and the areas where he was actually improved arent what should qualify as "all the buffs"

on a side note people should try to think objectively. if everyone else is going to get buffs, fei long for example could probrably stand to be left as is.nerfing him while beefing up the rest would put him in low mid, real fast.

if they take the normal capcom sf4 route, which is to just nerf the top, balancing would be much easier. even if it does make the game more boring. just drop some of fei's damage, and weaken the twins palms, super dmg, and command grabs

+ Frames on normals

TheMeth90

SniperNightOwl, post: 5643743 wrote:

No Bisons made even top 32 at EVO. Did you see what happened to Yipes? To Jago (not at evo at a different tourny which caused him to drop dictator)? Maybe it would be okay if the twins got nerfed because you can't turtle twins with their get in moves.

If you look all of the characters in the game, Bison is a very good character and stay the same in AE IMO but i agree with you, the twins are a pain in the ass and the priority to change in the future rebalance.

His old U2 was dumb for me, it's better with a charge motion.

HNIC Mike

Graphf, post: 5643762 wrote:

+ Frames on normals

that would fall under jab to sweep combo. jab goes from +5 to +6.

if you want to be technical, his close mk is 4 frames now too. i dont think anybody uses that for anything tho because its a shitty version of close fierce. i think any fei player would give it away for free.

i also think most would trade jab sweep and EX Rekkas safe for inv RH CW. 300 damage is awesome because you tried a standing meaty or a meaty throw. it also got out of hella mixups

Graphf

RindoukanKarateMan, post: 5643668 wrote:

give ryu the same recovery as guile on projectiles? his recovery is already good. You want this to become hadouken fighter 4?

Giving that to Ryu wouldn't to that to the game. I think Ryu should be balance around his fireball. Did you even play ST at all? Ryu was fun to play in that game and fireball traps are a big reason for it.

Additionally, nearly every character now has multiple ways to get past fireballs now, I think you are over reacting.

@ HNIC Mike --- ok, I will admit the Chicken Wing issue. That does need to stay the same, other then that he should go back to Super Spec imo.

Xgrayninja

SniperNightOwl, post: 5643635 wrote:

Please make Bison's crouch heavy punch a viable anti-air.... reduce the start up. He never had reliable anti-air tools and the one anti air he did have (stand heavy kick) you reduced the damage to hurt him with trades.

I'd love that. So much. I also would like to see a reasonable damage buff for Bisons regular psycho crusher. I don't think it'd be out of line for Bison to be able to punish harder.

Graphf

SniperNightOwl, post: 5643635 wrote:

Please make Bison's crouch heavy punch a viable anti-air.... reduce the start up. He never had reliable anti-air tools and the one anti air he did have (stand heavy kick) you reduced the damage to hurt him with trades.

I agree with this too. That and they should also consider moving Bison's st.HK hittable box back further so it trades less, this would make the damage nerf not as bad.

edit: Zgrayninja -- ya, it's funny how Bison isn't able to punish things very hard.

@ meth90 -- It's not as much of a threat as a charge motion. As a motion move U2 becomes something that everyone with a fireball or focus/backdash happy people have to actually take into account. I think it keeps people more honest throughout the match.

ShadolooDoll

TheMeth90, post: 5643776 wrote:

If you look all of the characters in the game, Bison is a very good character and stay the same in AE IMO but i agree with you, the twins are a pain in the ass and the priority to change in the future rebalance.

His old U2 was dumb for me, it's better with a charge motion.

yeah charge motion makes sense- he is a charge character. It's not bad either, you still can sk or psycho crusher while having the threat of U2. They made the damage respectable now, which I found to be highly useful so I felt it was reasonable.

Getting back to crouch hp as a viable AA I was just saying if everyone got tweaked, which I would prefer doesn't happen because I'm getting sick of relearning all the new subtle changes that can actually make a big difference in combat.

Would be nice if we get glitch fixes, or fixing stuff that doesn't make sense (like Juri.) At the end of the day what I want the most is the Twins to pay their dues for all the characters they slaughtered.....

Killer_Jigglypuff

Out of all the characters that wound up being discussed here I didn't think Bison would be the one getting bantered back and forth lol.

I agree with Mike, Gen's anti air U1 should be sped up so it actually works anti air. Make his Mantis U2 "lock in" on the animation like Yang's U1 if it hits also.

Mr. X

This thread gonna make lose my mind.

Did someone seriously say Ryu should have Guile recovery on his fireballs? Hell no, you lost your damn mind?

Has Bison ever had a solid AA in any SF that wasn't jMP or sHK?

Graphf

Gen and all the lower tier characters still need a few more things here and there. It may not bring them up in the tier charts but if it "squeezes" the tier more and makes the difference between A and C smaller, then it serves it's purpose.

HNIC Mike

Killer_Jigglypuff, post: 5643814 wrote:

Out of all the characters that wound up being discussed here I didn't think Bison would be the one getting bantered back and forth lol.

I agree with Mike, Gen's anti air U1 should be sped up so it actually works anti air. Make his Mantis U2 "lock in" on the animation like Yang's U1 if it hits also.

it would make sense considering his normal anti air options are lacking, and he needs meter anyway to AA reliably

Mr. X, post: 5643850 wrote:

Did someone seriously say Ryu should have Guile recovery on his fireballs? Hell no, you lost your damn mind?

i ignored that one. i assumed it was a poor troll attempt.

it works for guile because

1. its a charge motion to throw it
2. he cant use a follow up inv AA as soon as he rcovers

Xgrayninja

Just to clarify, I don't think Bison is a bad character at all in AE (on the contrary, he's probably the best charge character in the game). I'm just addressing some small flaws in his design that I feel should be looked at. But, if he remains largely untouched in the next update, I'll be fine with that. Like I said, even as is, he's a good character.

ShadolooDoll

It just made me scratch my head they took bison's stand hk damage down by 20 points when he already had issues with jump ins....

then again rose meter gain nerf made me scratch my head as well- esp when compared with the twins and their supers to go with it

Xgrayninja, post: 5643876 wrote:

Just to clarify, I don't think Bison is a bad character at all in AE (on the contrary, he's probably the best charge character in the game). I'm just addressing some small flaws in his design that I feel should be looked at. But, if he remains largely untouched in the next update, I'll be fine with that. Like I said, even as is, he's a good character.

pretty much this. I'm only offering suggestions if all characters received buffs. I just want twin nerfs honestly. And for good reason.

Ramma

SniperNightOwl, post: 5643760 wrote:

yeah i agree. If anything was done to him that would be it if other characters got buffed. Honestly if they just nerfed the twins (Yun more so than Yang) I'd be happy. Don't get me wrong Bison is solid right now, i was assuming if the whole cast received a facelift he should get that. Like with juri it's not really buffs it's more like fixing....

Well that's just it with Juri. More than anything else, she needs to be fixed. She needs buffs to be competitive, but she really needs to be fixed to be consistent.

Graphf

Mr. X, post: 5643850 wrote:

This thread gonna make lose my mind.

Did someone seriously say Ryu should have Guile recovery on his fireballs? Hell no, you lost your damn mind?

Has Bison ever had a solid AA in any SF that wasn't jMP or sHK?

Yes, that was me. I enjoy ST.



It should be Guile-like recovery or very close to it. He could be nerfed in other areas if need be. I want ST Ryu in this game, doing what Ryu is not only known for, but what he is supposed to do best.

Killer_Jigglypuff

Evil Ryu needs something to open people up more. Dunno what it woudl be, but as it stands he has far too difficult a time initiating offense, especially with such low health and stun.