Crafting Your Strategy (for beginners)

NutsNuts Old-school gamerJoined: Posts: 485
images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS9JV1-1JDRviDOfvkp__WvjaM8due_40prQ2bNfgCac-cyCDUDzw
She can kick some serious ass

To the Mods: If you feel my post doesn't really help anyone, or worse, that it's just really bad advice, please feel free to close this thread.

Introduction:
Hello Makoto forums. I'm actually not big on opening up another thread since we have so many floating around, but I notice we've been getting a steady influx of new players, some of which are brand new to fighters, and frankly, they generally have no idea where to start since we have so much information. There is a small section in the Q&A titled "where to start", but I don't feel it gives brand new players enough of a framework in which they can base their play. Now that that's out of the way, on to the guide!

Purpose:
To help new players develop a "big picture" understanding of Makoto. Keep in mind this guide is made to be used in conjunction with the first page of the Q&A thread.

Let me start by having you envision the way you want to play Makoto as a picture puzzle. If you've never tried one of these things, let me elaborate on the general technique used to solve them. First, you start by putting together the pieces that make up the outer edges of the puzzle, then, once you have your framework established, you slowly work your way toward the center. If we translate this analogy into Street Fighter terms, the outer edges represent your overarching goals in a match, while the inner pieces (safe jumps, meaties, baits, ect) make up the details that help you achieve that goal.
images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT_0APB1vW-2D3W6ghAaQ_fTo06XYNxFFj7y4l3lIvBlM1W1EXvLA
Your incomplete Rindokan Karate style

What is Makoto's overall strategic goal?
This is a question not many newer players ask themselves, but it is absolutely integral to winning. What should you be striving for when you play Makoto?

-You want to score a knockdown
oroshi.png?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1272520947939&sa=X&ei=hA03Tr3AA-XUiAKPyNDYDg&ved=0CAUQ8wc&usg=AFQjCNGx-WO0uQYfyD7GNP_RAaQlQK0kvw
That hurts, doesn't it, bitch?

Yes, it really is that simple (not really, it's actually really fucking complex, but this is a beginner's guide). But you can see from one broad goal, you can start to put together a plan of attack. Makoto has a ridiculous amount of tactics to employ when she sends her opponents to the ground and therefore should be the cornerstone of a new player's strategy.

An example:

Very Basic gameplan:

I want to put my opponent on the mat
how do I do that?
-dash up to my opponent and use cr.HP or EX-Oroshi

I've got them down, now what do I do?
-use forward dashes to push them into the corner
or
-meaty set-up or throw

Notice how from a very basic, broad goal I was able to pick attacks and follow-ups? This is what I meant by establishing a framework and working within it. As you play more and more, you'll eventually start expanding or modifying your plan.
ibuki-makoto.jpg
This picture has absolutely nothing to do with this guide

Gameplan pt 2!!!! (now modifying from experience):

I want to put my opponent on the mat
how do I do that?
-dash up to my opponent and use cr.HP or EX-Oroshi
(opponents are getting wise, time to add more options)
-Mix cr.HP and EX-Oroshi from s.MP block strings
-EX-Hayate (tech-able knockdown, be careful about quick rise)
Best used off of cr.MP Option-Select (what's an option-select? Look it up in the Q&A thread)
-start practicing links because I want to be able ground my opponent from a Jab string or two linked s.MP (long term project)
***problem: projectile characters are keeping me out.
-time to start learning how to use Tsurugi so I can go airborne without exposing myself too much
-look up section "How to get in without dying" in Q&A thread

I've got them down, now what do I do?
-use forward dashes to push them into the corner
or
-meaty set-up
***Another Problem!!!! opponents love mashing SRK...fucking scrubs
-add Safe-jumps and back-dash baits into post knockdown options (visit Q&A thread and research)

NEW!!!! Defense
Opponents keep pressuring me with block strings, possible solutions?
-Make a read, use the armor from EX-Karakusa or the invincibility frames from EX-Oroshi to turn the tide and put the opponent back in Knockdown state allowing me to get back to my original gameplan.
-LEARN TO FUCKING BLOCK!!!!
-Go to Q&A thread for research (Noticing a pattern yet?)

As you can see, this second version adds much more and it will keep getting larger as you gain experience. Eventually, you'll get to the point where you're breaking down match-ups to the minutest of details, but before you can get to the complex, you need to start with the simple. In this case, it all begins with "I want to put the opponent on the ground".

Comments

  • NutsNuts Old-school gamer Joined: Posts: 485
    edited September 2013
    Applying Mind Games to your, er…game

    Advanced guide on reading your opponent: JWong on reading your opponent


    Normally this subject wouldn't be broached in a beginner's guide, but using Makoto effectively also means making decent use of mind games. First we need to ask ourselves, what do we want to accomplish when we employ mind games?

    Answer: We want to make the opponent behave in a way that makes them more predictable and thus, easier to read. (easier said than done)

    I'm sure many beginners (and intermediates/experts lol) have watched V-Ryu and thought "Damn, he's a mind reader!!!" No, he isn't Professor X, he's using a symphony of block strings, evasive tactics, and the threat of throws/karakusa to force the opponent into certain situations that he (V-Ryu) can exploit. That's what I want to accomplish with this little primer. Hopefully, this will put you on the path to becoming the next V-Ryu or, at the very least, it will keep you from raging because you lost to another "random shoryu".
    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSD0t-K3sZRVA8aTxn7V8Sl7eb0c_8mnn_ZF68yyZYgBCUCKfGWaA
    I MADE you jump into me, bro

    A couple of things to keep in mind:
    -Don't lose sight of your basic strategic goal: Score a Knockdown. Mind games are just another piece of the puzzle that fit directly within that framework.
    -Keep it simple pt 1: Since you're just starting out, there's a good chance your execution is less than stellar. Pick two or three easy set-ups and use them over and over. When you feel you have them down and as your execution skills and opponents get better, start adding something more complex.
    -Keep it simple pt 2: How complex you can make your mind games is directly related to your opponent's skill level. For this reason, I don't recommend something like Hayate Feints. If you are facing beginners, they won't know enough to be afraid of it.
    -Humans require repetition to learn just about anything. This is why, at the beginner level, you actually want to do the same set-up over and over. How will your opponent know to be afraid if they can't recognize what you're doing?
    -Think of mind games as a military operation to be deployed in phases. Round 1 is setting the bomb, Round 2 (&3) is detonation

    Scenario:
    So, let's tackle a hurdle ALL new Makoto players have to deal with: the opponent who mashes Lights and SRKs/reversals

    Understanding is the key to victory:
    -Why does a beginner level player mash Lights/Reversals? Generally because they feel their defense is sub par. The jabs and reversals are more of a tool to get you off them rather than an actual tide turner like it is in high level play. More importantly, mashing has yielded wins. If no one has given them reason to stop, why bother? Well, you're going to give them plenty of reason.

    Round/Phase 1: Data Gathering and Training Mode (planting the bomb)

    We in the fighting game community have a saying "The first round is data". You're trying to feel out your opponent and he's trying to do the same. But for the Makoto player, we have to take the extra step and "train" our opponent to react a certain way. In the case of dealing with a player who mashes, you need to convince them taking that route will mean a whole lot of pain.

    I'll use the same format I used in the previous section so it's easier to understand the thought process:

    Landed a Knockdown:
    ***Problem: opponent mashes SRK/Lights upon wake-up
    What do I do?
    Punish with:
    -safe jumps (good for SRK, not so good for lights) solid but slightly risky, could be punished if they decide to throw
    -Forward dashes/whiffed normals followed by back dash as they wake (good against Lights and SRK, plus have option to use cr.MP->Hayate OS, leaves you safe if you guess wrong) better choice, use more often

    Remember what I said about humans needing repetition before they learn something? Well, doing one safe-jump or back-dash bait isn't going to convince your opponent to stop mashing, so you're going to have to execute your evasive tactics while dishing out damage through counter poke combos/punishers for the ENTIRE FIRST ROUND. By doing this, you teach your opponent a few things:
    a. Makoto has a damn good back dash. If they want to punish you for constantly dashing in and out, they're going to have to commit to something risky.
    b. Going for SRK/reversals is a gamble, not a gdlk move that can be thrown out whenever they feel like they are in trouble
    c. You're convincing them that blocking or backing up isn't such a bad idea.

    Keep in mind, you MUST be paying attention to your opponent's tendencies. If your opponent is a fool, he'll most likely keep trying to SRK you even into the second round, thinking "I'll get him this time for sure!!!" I played a Sagat back in Super that tried Tiger Uppers on me 4 times in a row even after I had punished him heavily. Yes, there are people that stupid. If that's the case, you get a free, but boring, win.

    But let us labor under the assumption that your opponent is like you; someone who is just starting out, but wants to improve. If you are facing someone like this, he will have payed very close attention to your behavior, just as you were paying close attention to his.

    Round/Phase 2: Switching Gears (detonating the bomb)
    Makoto_Karakusa.jpg
    Thanks for holding still

    Now that you've used an entire round to condition your opponent to expect evasion, it's safer to try something more aggressive (meaties, Karakusa, ect). But keep an element of the round 1 evasion tactics in your round 2 rush down. There needs to be a little reminder that at any time, you could dodge a retaliatory strike. Above all, remember to pay attention to your opponent's behavior. If he gets SRK happy, go back to your round 1 plan. Evade and punish.

    Landed a Knockdown:
    ***Opponent shows less sign of mashing
    Now what do I do?
    -meaty attack/throws
    -Occasionally back dash or safe/jump

    Viola!!! You now have the secret technique of manipulating people. Go forth and body every opponent. Just kidding. You still need experience to really get the hang of this concept. Truthfully, I'm still learning about mind games as well, but I hardly ever get hit with random Shoryus anymore. I guess I must be doing something right. (FYI, the "mind-games" section is from personal experience. This is the plan I came up with to work the psychological aspects of Makoto into my game.)

    Conclusion
    Congratulations, you've just reached the end of an incredibly long winded tutorial. Hopefully, you've learned something new and, more importantly, know how to fit the information we have in the Q&A section into your personalized Makoto.

    Peace out
    Post edited by Nuts on
  • the mossad manthe mossad man EVIL MAKOTO Joined: Posts: 1,467
    This is good. One question:

    Do you plan on making a video? If not, i'd like to video-ize this concept. Because you are right, we get carried away with all of our setups and our theory... and when someone new comes in like:

    "hey wat duz karakaramean"

    We're like,

    "yo are you stupid? Didn't you read the OPs. Idiot...."

    But you are correct in separating and simplifying the information they need into, like a quick start as opposed to innundating them with the mountain of data contained in this forum. It takes time... a lot of time, and some people just want to win a few games against their friends.

    There are definatly a few points to add, but I'm seriously considering turning this into a video. maybe i'll work on it tonight. PM me you're interested (but not that my mind is on it, i'll probably do it anyway lmao)

    EDIT - you know what, maybe i could do like a Makoto Series. Basic stuff. Kind of like the Level Up stuff for Tekken back in the day... Just brainstorming. A lot of people seem to be lost...
    "I call this the lowest common denominator theory"..." you want to do as little as possible necessary to still win. And rather than an embarrassment, this is a major skill."

    S.Kill
  • NutsNuts Old-school gamer Joined: Posts: 485
    This is good. One question:

    Do you plan on making a video? If not, i'd like to video-ize this concept. Because you are right, we get carried away with all of our setups and our theory... and when someone new comes in like:

    "hey wat duz karakaramean"

    We're like,

    "yo are you stupid? Didn't you read the OPs. Idiot...."

    But you are correct in separating and simplifying the information they need into, like a quick start as opposed to innundating them with the mountain of data contained in this forum. It takes time... a lot of time, and some people just want to win a few games against their friends.

    There are definatly a few points to add, but I'm seriously considering turning this into a video. maybe i'll work on it tonight. PM me you're interested (but not that my mind is on it, i'll probably do it anyway lmao)

    EDIT - you know what, maybe i could do like a Makoto Series. Basic stuff. Kind of like the Level Up stuff for Tekken back in the day... Just brainstorming. A lot of people seem to be lost...

    Mossad, I would love it if you video-ized this. I was actually hoping this post would get the attention of one of the higher level guys because I knew I was going to miss something. I'll send you a PM
  • the mossad manthe mossad man EVIL MAKOTO Joined: Posts: 1,467
    Honestly I would have to add a little. I'm got some great ideas. Been awhile since I worked on anything seriously. Haven't done anything other than matches since I got my HD-PVR. so I'm gonna work on it tonight. I'm making an Oni tutorial now, so I'll be working on both. Yeah PM me with your ideas.
    "I call this the lowest common denominator theory"..." you want to do as little as possible necessary to still win. And rather than an embarrassment, this is a major skill."

    S.Kill
  • NutsNuts Old-school gamer Joined: Posts: 485
    Honestly I would have to add a little. I'm got some great ideas. Been awhile since I worked on anything seriously. Haven't done anything other than matches since I got my HD-PVR. so I'm gonna work on it tonight. I'm making an Oni tutorial now, so I'll be working on both. Yeah PM me with your ideas.
    Add whatever you need to. I envisioned this as some sort of community project to begin with. I'm getting the ball rolling, but I definitely like that a stronger playing is taking an interest.
  • CHIMAsamuneCHIMAsamune Joined: Posts: 197
    Thanks a lot. Though I'm not new to Street Fighter, I am new to Makoto and have been having a difficult time getting an idea of what to do. I understood i was supposed to go for knockdowns and corner pressure, but I'm still thinking about what to follow up with next. I'm also still having trouble dealing with pressure. Can't believe I didn't think to go for the EX command grab. Anyway, good stuff. Can't wait to start applying it in real games.
  • NutsNuts Old-school gamer Joined: Posts: 485
    Thanks a lot. Though I'm not new to Street Fighter, I am new to Makoto and have been having a difficult time getting an idea of what to do. I understood i was supposed to go for knockdowns and corner pressure, but I'm still thinking about what to follow up with next. I'm also still having trouble dealing with pressure. Can't believe I didn't think to go for the EX command grab. Anyway, good stuff. Can't wait to start applying it in real games.

    Glad it's already helping. Remember to keep checking the forums. Mossad wants to add to this.

    Be careful about EX command grabs. If you fuck up you're going to pay. Time to practice those blocking skills
  • Godly-EffectGodly-Effect Godly D. Wolfwood Joined: Posts: 397
    This could be called "White belt Rindoukan Karate class". If I remember anything that isn't posted here, I'll post. Mossad would probably get more.
    GT: GodlyEffect
  • FactureFacture Rindoukan Student Joined: Posts: 98
    Some very basic meter management and positioning (in relation to the corner) would be good info. I remember watching a beginner's video for Dan and it showed using his throws to better position the opponent into the corner or to get yourself out of the corner etc... that info may be too basic but just a thought.
    Street Fighter IV AE: Makoto (sub: Cody)
    Skullgirls: Valentine/Peacock (possible 3rd: ?)
  • NutsNuts Old-school gamer Joined: Posts: 485
    This could be called "White belt Rindoukan Karate class". If I remember anything that isn't posted here, I'll post. Mossad would probably get more.
    That's actually a really good name. I wonder why I didn't think of that.
    Some very basic meter management and positioning (in relation to the corner) would be good info. I remember watching a beginner's video for Dan and it showed using his throws to better position the opponent into the corner or to get yourself out of the corner etc... that info may be too basic but just a thought.

    lol. I purposefully left out stuff like meter management and positioning because I felt it might be too advanced for ultra beginners. However, the more I think about it, those are pretty basic concepts too. Guess I should have reserved more posts.
  • Niko9193Niko9193 NVNiko Joined: Posts: 864
    Please Mossad Man do it for me because I definetly got the worst Mak in the world!!
  • the mossad manthe mossad man EVIL MAKOTO Joined: Posts: 1,467
    Please Mossad Man do it for me because I definetly got the worst Mak in the world!!
    GTFO lol you trollin right? could've sworn you beat me 2 to 1 in the 50~60 matches we played the other day lol.
    "I call this the lowest common denominator theory"..." you want to do as little as possible necessary to still win. And rather than an embarrassment, this is a major skill."

    S.Kill
  • Niko9193Niko9193 NVNiko Joined: Posts: 864
    I'm not trolling!!! I really hate my Makoto lol
  • the mossad manthe mossad man EVIL MAKOTO Joined: Posts: 1,467
    I'm not trolling!!! I really hate my Makoto lol
    Well you shouldn't. She's really good.
    "I call this the lowest common denominator theory"..." you want to do as little as possible necessary to still win. And rather than an embarrassment, this is a major skill."

    S.Kill
  • the mossad manthe mossad man EVIL MAKOTO Joined: Posts: 1,467
    Alright I've been working on the Tutorial and I've got the intro and the first section just about complete. Everything is subject to change, and most of it probably will lol.

    I need help with the format though. There is A LOT of information in here. Given that if I put even half of the stuff in the video, it would still end up being 20 minutes long or more. Right now I just have the intro and am talking about Defense and its already almost 3 minutes lol. So I need help guys. What do you want to see in this video??? I'll be workin on it again tonight and through the weekend. Ideas that I have:
    Introduction
    -Short combo video
    -Basic explanation of Makoto's Fight Style
    Defense
    Usage of normals
    -properly using normals for defense and AA
    -what to do when pressured
    -what to do when knocked down
    -defense in the midst of Offense
    Movement
    -how to close distance properly
    -spacing
    -buffer pokes
    -how to handle focus attacks
    Offense
    Using her specials
    -Fukiage
    -Hayate
    -Oroshi
    -Karakusa
    Combos
    -AE specific of course
    Wake up setups
    -Meaties
    -Safe jumps
    -Option Selects
    Focus attack usage
    -When not to focus
    -When to focus
    -what to do if hit/blocked
    Resets
    -Pre reset (how to reset)
    -Post reset
    Kara moves
    -Kara Hayate (usually EX)
    -Kara Fukiage
    -Kara Oroshi
    Kara Karakusas
    -T.LK Karakara
    -S.LK Karakara
    Block Strings
    -to set up Sweep/c.LK>EX hayate
    -to set up Oroshi
    -to set up Kara/ Karakara

    Now, I will provide actual examples of people using this stuff in real matches as much as possible. I just completed the "normals" section and it looks great. So for example i have a section on using s.:mp: in defense. one of the clips is a makoto fighting a honda. The clip starts with Makoto crossing up honda with j.:mk: (blocked) then doing c.:lp: (blocked), s.:lp: (blocked), c.:lk: (hit), EX Hayate. Honda lands in the corner and Makoto Backdashes. Honda does wakeup EX Headbutt to try to catch her back dash, but Makoto throws out s.:mp: and head butt is beat clean. there is an annotation on the screen thats says : "Standing MP can beat most forward moving physical attacks."

    Am I making any sense? Help me out guys, or else you will end up with a feature film ROTFLMFAO
    "I call this the lowest common denominator theory"..." you want to do as little as possible necessary to still win. And rather than an embarrassment, this is a major skill."

    S.Kill
  • HitomiHitomi Rindoukan Blue Belt Joined: Posts: 1,125
    None of this video crap, we are men of literature!!!111
    Formerly Robot Makoto
  • NutsNuts Old-school gamer Joined: Posts: 485
    None of this video crap, we are men of literature!!!111
    Speak for yourself. I like the pretty pictures!!!!

    @Mossad:
    -You definitely need to put in a section titled "How to play against bad players". How you play Mak at the high level is completely different than beginner level. I guess that means recommending a lot more back-dashing baiting on wake-up and very, very little usage of Karakusa.

    -An intro into conditioning your opponent into expecting one strategy (block strings), but then hitting them with another (karakusa). I don't think a lot of new players understand how to execute that concept very well.

    -Also, someone suggested a basic primer on meter usage and positioning (in relation to the corner). Don't know if that's going to be covered in the intro to her playstyle?

    If you're looking for format inspiration, someone forwarded this Ryu tutorial by Air. It's pretty extensive and does a really good job at teaching.

  • the mossad manthe mossad man EVIL MAKOTO Joined: Posts: 1,467
    None of this video crap, we are men of literature!!!111

    I actually mostly agree lol. But the video really serves 2 purposes:

    1. Some people just employ visual based learning a lot better. Not me... I need to have a notepad or something, but it does help to have a good visual reference....

    2. It helps me personally. If I have any execution problems, The video will definitely bring them out, as I really only have one chance to record. So i try over and over and over and over and eventually i get it correct lol.

    @ nuts... looking at the Air tut now... will reply in a sec.

    EDIT - nevermind, it says you cant view it on a moble device....
    "I call this the lowest common denominator theory"..." you want to do as little as possible necessary to still win. And rather than an embarrassment, this is a major skill."

    S.Kill
  • NutsNuts Old-school gamer Joined: Posts: 485
    I actually mostly agree lol. But the video really serves 2 purposes:

    1. Some people just employ visual based learning a lot better. Not me... I need to have a notepad or something, but it does help to have a good visual reference....

    2. It helps me personally. If I have any execution problems, The video will definitely bring them out, as I really only have one chance to record. So i try over and over and over and over and eventually i get it correct lol.

    @ nuts... looking at the Air tut now... will reply in a sec.

    EDIT - nevermind, it says you cant view it on a moble device....
    Well, when you get home, give it a quick glimpse. It's pretty good at teaching beginners what they need to know and then some.
  • LogiaLogia Flare Drive Joined: Posts: 334
    Hey Nuts, just wanted to thank you alot for the tutorial, it's really helping as I just starting using Mak last week.

    The main problem I face when I play is not just applying pressure, but how to create openings with Mak. IMO it's a personal problem since I play a bit too reckless. Anyway, thanks again man, I'll be frequent visitor to these forums. =]
    :coffee:
  • NutsNuts Old-school gamer Joined: Posts: 485
    Hey Nuts, just wanted to thank you alot for the tutorial, it's really helping as I just starting using Mak last week.

    The main problem I face when I play is not just applying pressure, but how to create openings with Mak. IMO it's a personal problem since I play a bit too reckless. Anyway, thanks again man, I'll be frequent visitor to these forums. =]
    That's my problem too. It gets better the more you play. You learn when to go all out and when to kick back and observe.
  • to1v11v1yto1v11v1y Joined: Posts: 58
    This is seriously awesome, i'm fairly new (about 300 hours) to fighting games, and just started Makoto.

    So thanks for the post.

    In fact the entire Makoto character thread is nuts, played a little Blanka and that thread sucks in comparison!
    So good job i spose.

    (i'm sure you love hearing praise from a scrub!ha)
  • NutsNuts Old-school gamer Joined: Posts: 485
    This is seriously awesome, i'm fairly new (about 300 hours) to fighting games, and just started Makoto.

    So thanks for the post.

    In fact the entire Makoto character thread is nuts, played a little Blanka and that thread sucks in comparison!
    So good job i spose.

    (i'm sure you love hearing praise from a scrub!ha)

    Don't worry, I appreciate that you guys are finding the thread useful. Once upon a time, I was good at fighting games, but now, I'm in my early 30's and it's hard to find time to practice (I'm lucky if I can get 2 hours of online matches a week :sad:) so I'm actually quite horrible. Despite my lack of expertise in SSFIV:AE, I still have 15 years of fighting game experience to draw from. Since I can't help people with advanced tactics, I might as well teach foundation.

    BTW, I keep posting in this thread so it will stay near the top. Need to get this thing stickied
  • battoubattou Joined: Posts: 13
    Awesome and very funny guide !!
  • Blacksonic21Blacksonic21 aka HsienKosHelper Joined: Posts: 488
    This is seriously awesome, i'm fairly new (about 300 hours) to fighting games, and just started Makoto.

    So thanks for the post.

    In fact the entire Makoto character thread is nuts, played a little Blanka and that thread sucks in comparison!
    So good job i spose.

    (i'm sure you love hearing praise from a scrub!ha)
    I hear you, I've checked some other threads just to see how they operate and none of them compare to the Makoto threads. I'm so happy Makoto was the character I chose.
    XBLGT: HsienKosHelper
    SSF4AE: Makoto/Honda
    UMVC3: Hulk/Hsien-ko/Sentinel - Felicia/Doom/Strider
  • ZakbgZakbg Despa1r Joined: Posts: 416
    This is seriously awesome, i'm fairly new (about 300 hours) to fighting games, and just started Makoto.

    So thanks for the post.

    In fact the entire Makoto character thread is nuts, played a little Blanka and that thread sucks in comparison!
    So good job i spose.

    (i'm sure you love hearing praise from a scrub!ha)
    yo dude dont play blanka , too many of them already .. lol
  • RindoukanKarateManRindoukanKarateMan I like Karate Girls Joined: Posts: 504
    Please Mossad Man do it for me because I definetly got the worst Mak in the world!!
    Meet me on Psn and we can compete for scrubbiest Makoto lol
    3rd strike-Makoto dudley
    ssf4-Makoto,Dudley,Guy
    Blazeblue-Bang,Bang,Bang,Makoto
    tekken-Raven
    Your signature has been modifed, please read the rules.
  • BazikBazik Joined: Posts: 5
    thx for the post, it was a nice read
  • James LameJames Lame When's Melty? Joined: Posts: 91
    Thanks a lot for the guide, i need all the help i can get with my scrubby mak.
    The main problem I face when I play is not just applying pressure, but how to create openings with Mak. IMO it's a personal problem since I play a bit too reckless. Anyway, thanks again man, I'll be frequent visitor to these forums. =]
    I hear you, I'm also playing way to reckless when trying to get in, especially against people who try to zone.
  • NutsNuts Old-school gamer Joined: Posts: 485
    Thanks a lot for the guide, i need all the help i can get with my scrubby mak.

    I hear you, I'm also playing way to reckless when trying to get in, especially against people who try to zone.
    Yeah, I've had that problem too. Patience is key. Here's a piece of advice that has helped me recently: Instead of thinking of her as a rush down character, try to think of her more as spike damage character. Even if you're down on life, all you need is that one chance to even the score or pull ahead. So be patient and slowly force your opponent into the corner.
  • James LameJames Lame When's Melty? Joined: Posts: 91
    Yeah, I've had that problem too. Patience is key. Here's a piece of advice that has helped me recently: Instead of thinking of her as a rush down character, try to think of her more as spike damage character. Even if you're down on life, all you need is that one chance to even the score or pull ahead. So be patient and slowly force your opponent into the corner.
    Yeah, that sounds like good mindset to have when playing her. Thanks.
  • KtWdAKtWdA Outta the Blue Joined: Posts: 154
    Is it weird that I heard the OP's Lesson as if he were "Rex Kwon Do" from Napoleon Dynamite?
  • mcgowanshewrotemcgowanshewrote Nothing is fun until you are good at it Joined: Posts: 355
    FOR THE VERY NEW

    this video is to explain what to do against mashers. I when I started the set with this guy (endless battle 1 on 1) I saw he was a low bp ken player so the first thing that came to mind is watch for mashing. The set itself I think worked out well because the guy changed characters but all of them (except for dhalsim) have some move they can mash. So I was able to look out for Blanka mashing electricity (just sweep these guys on their wake up) Zangief mashing lariat (neutral jump late tsurgi beats it all day- careful though if you use roundhouse version and they quick rise, you may still be in recovery and they can grab you) And the rest of the dp cast (just wait for it) I posted the entire set so you see that I lost to the mashing a couple times a well. I always think the other guys is saying "Im invincible!"
    So here we go...
    p.s. I guess he gave up in the end with Sagat



    hope this helps
    Just hoping to get as good as you guys

    In my world heroes only exist in comics. Which would be okay I guess, if the bad guys were make believe too........but they're not
  • KtWdAKtWdA Outta the Blue Joined: Posts: 154
    FOR THE VERY NEW
    hope this helps
    ^_^ My Supergirl clothes are popular!
  • RindoukanKarateManRindoukanKarateMan I like Karate Girls Joined: Posts: 504
    FOR THE VERY NEW

    this video is to explain what to do against mashers. I when I started the set with this guy (endless battle 1 on 1) I saw he was a low bp ken player so the first thing that came to mind is watch for mashing. The set itself I think worked out well because the guy changed characters but all of them (except for dhalsim) have some move they can mash. So I was able to look out for Blanka mashing electricity (just sweep these guys on their wake up) Zangief mashing lariat (neutral jump late tsurgi beats it all day- careful though if you use roundhouse version and they quick rise, you may still be in recovery and they can grab you) And the rest of the dp cast (just wait for it) I posted the entire set so you see that I lost to the mashing a couple times a well. I always think the other guys is saying "Im invincible!"
    So here we go...
    p.s. I guess he gave up in the end with Sagat



    hope this helps
    You know one of vryus punishes for srk type moves on block is Two Fukis and a tsurugi. Its ALOT of damage and safer than letting an idiot masher like him land. and it may make him think alittle more.
    3rd strike-Makoto dudley
    ssf4-Makoto,Dudley,Guy
    Blazeblue-Bang,Bang,Bang,Makoto
    tekken-Raven
    Your signature has been modifed, please read the rules.
  • mcgowanshewrotemcgowanshewrote Nothing is fun until you are good at it Joined: Posts: 355
    You know one of vryus punishes for srk type moves on block is Two Fukis and a tsurugi. Its ALOT of damage and safer than letting an idiot masher like him land. and it may make him think alittle more.
    While I can only agree with that follow up, I think my point in posting the video was not to show the most damaging punish or even to showcase punishes at all. My actual point was to show that you just have to wait for mashers to kill themselves. But yeah i need to get my punishes leveled up for the real matches. Gotta get all the damage that you can : )
    Just hoping to get as good as you guys

    In my world heroes only exist in comics. Which would be okay I guess, if the bad guys were make believe too........but they're not
  • RindoukanKarateManRindoukanKarateMan I like Karate Girls Joined: Posts: 504
    While I can only agree with that follow up, I think my point in posting the video was not to show the most damaging punish or even to showcase punishes at all. My actual point was to show that you just have to wait for mashers to kill themselves. But yeah i need to get my punishes leveled up for the real matches. Gotta get all the damage that you can : )
    I did watch it all the way through too it seemed like that guy was turboing too. Either way he was a r-tard. Or a little kid or both.
    3rd strike-Makoto dudley
    ssf4-Makoto,Dudley,Guy
    Blazeblue-Bang,Bang,Bang,Makoto
    tekken-Raven
    Your signature has been modifed, please read the rules.
  • Godly-EffectGodly-Effect Godly D. Wolfwood Joined: Posts: 397
    mcgowanshewrote Just a thing, you backdash away too much. Even that bad player was unintentionally able to take advantage of that.
    GT: GodlyEffect
  • mcgowanshewrotemcgowanshewrote Nothing is fun until you are good at it Joined: Posts: 355
    mcgowanshewrote Just a thing, you backdash away too much. Even that bad player was unintentionally able to take advantage of that.
    Yes...yes I know smdh
    I was even going to complain about her back dash some more but then again maybe I should stop doing it!
    Just hoping to get as good as you guys

    In my world heroes only exist in comics. Which would be okay I guess, if the bad guys were make believe too........but they're not
  • Godly-EffectGodly-Effect Godly D. Wolfwood Joined: Posts: 397
    It's alright, her back dash does seem unnecessarily long. The actual dash part is pretty quick, but then she sits for ages in the one spot, but if they made that better people would complain she's OP...wait, some still do anyway. :P I'm not using it as much lately, and if I get hit by the opponent who did something to counter back dash I take it as me being too predictable.
    GT: GodlyEffect
  • the mossad manthe mossad man EVIL MAKOTO Joined: Posts: 1,467
    Also you give up part of your momentum. Also it's dangerous when the opponent is pressing you. I think the most advanced and advantageous thing anyone can do (you'll see this a lot at tournaments...A LOT in Japan) is BLOCKING. Seriously. Just sit there and block sometimes. Not all the time. But seriously see how well down back can help anyone's game. It pays to be patient. And wait for your opponent to make mistakes. And uh, the will make mistakes if they're constantly hitting buttons (happens a lot in America!)
    "I call this the lowest common denominator theory"..." you want to do as little as possible necessary to still win. And rather than an embarrassment, this is a major skill."

    S.Kill
  • Godly-EffectGodly-Effect Godly D. Wolfwood Joined: Posts: 397
    Also you give up part of your momentum. Also it's dangerous when the opponent is pressing you. I think the most advanced and advantageous thing anyone can do (you'll see this a lot at tournaments...A LOT in Japan) is BLOCKING. Seriously. Just sit there and block sometimes. Not all the time. But seriously see how well down back can help anyone's game. It pays to be patient. And wait for your opponent to make mistakes. And uh, the will make mistakes if they're constantly hitting buttons (happens a lot in America!)
    Hey, mah names GE, I had a no-blocking prahblem. Den I tried dem basics and blocking and it turn mah win-loss ratio 'round. Seriously, it works...
    GT: GodlyEffect
  • ChewmandingaChewmandinga PSN XBL, UK: Chewmandinga Joined: Posts: 303
    Did the video tutorial for this ever turn into anything? If not, I've just got some recording equipment so I wouldn't mind taking a stab.
    Shoryuken needs to sort out these adverts.
  • Time pantsTime pants Maybe Evil Ryu is just misunderstood? Joined: Posts: 446
    Did the video tutorial for this ever turn into anything? If not, I've just got some recording equipment so I wouldn't mind taking a stab.

    Doesn't look like anything ever came of it. I'd love to see a video guide made (although at this point it'd probably be worth waiting for v.2013) if anyone out there has the desire to make this thing happen. I think it'd make an awesome companion to the printed Rindokan Bible y'all have put together.
  • III_illMAKticIII_illMAKtic Rindo-Kan State of Mind Joined: Posts: 2
    The information here has been really helpful!
    Thanks to everyone who posted something that's of use.
    =]
    MakS.png
  • NutsNuts Old-school gamer Joined: Posts: 485
    edited September 2013
    Incredibly relevant.

    JWong on reading your opponent

    Pretty much required reading for any Mak player.
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