KoF noob trying to get into it..

RedVegaRedVega Joined: Posts: 861
Hey guys, I play SF, some minor MK and MvC3 but watching some of the recent KoF13 footage and tournament matches has really sparked my interest in this game...I've never really played a KoF game and I was wondering how hard is it to pick up? How's the combo leniency? Input leniency?
What's the release date for the consoles? Is it alright to play this game on the pad like MK/SF and MvC?

Basically I just want a minor introduction to KoF because it looks like a really cool game to get into..
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Comments

  • PongBoomPongBoom land of ice and snow Joined: Posts: 707
    If you want to play KOF 2002 with me feel free. My GT is Pong Boom.

    But the KOF series is a lot harder than capcom fighters, with much stricter timings. (Don't play against South Americans, they will f*** you up.)
    Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never--in nothing, great or small, large or petty--never give in, except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.
    -Winston Churchill
  • Dr. GrammarDr. Grammar Fighting Game Scientist Joined: Posts: 1,726
    In KOF XI and XIII, the combos and inputs are pretty easy. In past games, they were more difficult. Pad works fine, but there are some special motions that can be difficult, such as hcb,f and qcb,hcf.

    Here's a good video guide to get started with: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye3KVgI1LvU
    #SFxT @ Rizon - It's better than SRK
  • BiGGDaddyCaneBiGGDaddyCane ☵☳☷☵☴☵☳☲☷☵ Joined: Posts: 932
    " I'll stain my hands with your blood - Geese "
    KOF 98 Slugfest Dream Match Never Ends
  • RedVegaRedVega Joined: Posts: 861
    Would you guys say that the game is more offensive or are lamed out playstyles somewhat popular in the underground?
  • PongBoomPongBoom land of ice and snow Joined: Posts: 707
    Would you guys say that the game is more offensive or are lamed out playstyles somewhat popular in the underground?

    Both are applicable, but I would say 13 is more offensive oriented.
    Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never--in nothing, great or small, large or petty--never give in, except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.
    -Winston Churchill
  • LabanLaban KOF98 Player Joined: Posts: 2,558
    I hate the stupid misconception that KOF is hard to pick up. Sheesh. Especially saying things like "KOF is harder to pick up than SF."

    What is hard to pick up? Combos? If so does anyone find Ken's st.MP > st.HP Target Combo into dp+HP hard? Easy right? Then what's hard about doing Iori's cl.C > f.A xx Aoi Hana series? Most combos in KOF are essentially more liberal target combos and hitconfirms with chaining light attacks. That doesn't even happen in SF unless you're playing something like A2 or 3s. If anything, combos and execution is harder in ST and Alpha 2 than it is in 98 and 02. Try doing cr.B, cr.A, f.A xx qcb+C x3 with Iori and compare it to renda canceling Ken's low shorts into super in ST.

    So then what else would make KOF harder? Zoning and spacing? KOF has more liberal movement and enough subsystems to allow for sloppier play and means around projectiles. So there is less an emphasis on grounded, walking footsies and committing to a jump and more around being ready to punish rolls and weaving in and out of appropriate areas with hops, running, crouching, and rolling/sidesteps. Although KOF does have depth when it comes to actual spacing, it's not as minute and fine tuned as it is in SF, mainly ST. There isn't as much discipline as I see compared to a Ryu mirror match or a Guile vs. O.Sagat match up.

    So when it comes to execution and spacing, what does make KOF harder to pick up than SF? I see nothing at all. Just because if one gets beasted by silly gimmicks by intermediate Hispanic players online, it doesn't mean that KOF is harder to pick up than SF.

    If most US players really committed to the game for about 1-2 years and really played hard, we could all catch up to the other nations that have been playing the general KOF series for about a decade. Does it take a bit of time to learn? Yes, but it is by no means "harder" to learn than SF or any other fighting game series.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye3KVgI1LvU

    For the general beginners, here's this KOF guide made by DandyJ. It's pretty mandatory to watch if you're coming into the KOF series without much knowledge about KOF game flow
  • rukawa_kaederukawa_kaede ({「決最終戦奥義」}) Joined: Posts: 3,412
    the strategy is the difficult part I suppose

    most U.S players I have played stay to much on the ground and turtle a lot so I end up chasing them for the whole match
  • PongBoomPongBoom land of ice and snow Joined: Posts: 707
    SNIP

    Its not actually a misconception. I've played a large portion of both Kof and SF, and I can say KOF has tighter combos. Iori is not a good example just because he is really easy to combo with. Things like spacing are also more complex than sf, with the multitude of options available.
    Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never--in nothing, great or small, large or petty--never give in, except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.
    -Winston Churchill
  • THE ANSWERTHE ANSWER KOF Legend Joined: Posts: 1,688
    If you wanna learn KOF the best way to learn is to travel around the world... lol joking. Bur seriously I would recommend to find a sparing partner that know the basic knowledge about the game to teach you, wether online or offline. I find the tutorials useful but, I've always find it easier to learn games when somebody is explaining me first hand, maybe it's just me.
    -I'm not THE best anymore, I'm just one of the best =)
    "LOL not everyone is a basement dweller afraid of meeting real people Emil" -Cronopio
  • LabanLaban KOF98 Player Joined: Posts: 2,558
    Its not actually a misconception. I've played a large portion of both Kof and SF, and I can say KOF has tighter combos. Iori is not a good example just because he is really easy to combo with. Things like spacing are also more complex than sf, with the multitude of options available.

    It would help to list examples of what these "tighter" combos are because unless you're playing Angel in 02, most combos are no different from SF bnbs. Spacing isn't necessarily "more complex" but there are more options available because of things such as running, rolls, hops, etc. But it boils down to the rock/paper/scissors kind of game during the inside-game. Standing attacks against hops, hops against sweeps and other far reaching grounded normals, and sweeps against standing attacks. There is a few more layers and nuances such as Kensou and Athena being zoning characters, it's not a free ride to try to hop over their projectiles so the player has to play more traditional SF footsies to get around them such as landing a good full jump, or just rolling at the right moment. Since movement is so liberal though, the player could just simply be in range or be outside of range of something an opponent does and just get a full punish off of it.

    In Street Fighter though, there is certainly less subsystems especially if one counts ST and A2. But, due to limitations of movement and available universal systems, the player has to play a stricter ground game, really bait out opponents to do a bad jump-in, play footsies, and really abuse spacial advantage. Such as, a player has to go through a series of set ups just to make Dhalsim to do a bad drill to only punish it with a far st.MP or something minute as that. So there is this type of discipline that comes with SF, especially high level SF, that is just as hard as trying to learn KOF. The difficulty doesn't necessarily lie in the amount of things a player needs to learn, not that it's hard to learn KOF combos outside a few characters or learn what the hell a hop or roll is, but in the mental demand it makes of the player.

    Seriously, if you're a top level player at SF (not intermediate, top) and really know how to space with normals, KOF should be a breeze to learn. Vice versa. If you're going into KOF from SF and you're really good at SF, all you really need to know is that rolls are the new ST jumps (as in something that is a huge committal that goes around your attacks but you could earn a large punish off of it/high risk high reward), hops are a form of Standing Jab/Strong/Fierce that covers essentially the same space but allows a player to move forward or backwards while doing it (that is doing an early hop attack, which is susceptible to whiff and the opponent could let it whiff and punish it by crouching underneath. If the hop attack is done a bit later, it acts more like a jump-in but is more susceptible to anti-air before the attack actually comes out), and that there is no medium punch or medium kick buttons.

    It works vice versa for KOF. When going from KOF to SF, one has to recognize that there are essentially no hops, rolls, or running (some may have dashes though) unless you're playing 3s for whatever reason (universal overheads) so all a player could do is commit to jumping but one has to earn that right to do so. Since there are two more attack buttons and that grounded specials such as projectiles have a bit more dominance on the ground, the KOF player will have to recognize that he'd have to (generally) be in enough range to counter poke the higher start up attack that he wouldn't be able to poke against once it's out (projectiles) and be ready to respond against a bad jump. So essentially, while weaving in and out of normal attack ranges and maneuvering to limit or get over projectiles, he's playing footsies. Then once the player can earn the right to put the opponent in the corner, the player has to maximize on spacing and get the opponent into a fireball trap and maximize the situation so that even if the fireball misses because of a jump or something, the player could anti-air the opponent.

    How I perceive KOF and SF, they're merely extensions of each other but with slight shifts in design here and there. At the core, they're really the same game. It's just that it's easier to reach higher levels of KOF more quickly than it does with old school SF. Especially if you just want to tier whore in KOF, in 98um just choose Krauser/O. Geese/Eiji, Kyo/Iori/Daimon in 98, K'/King/Kasumi in 02um, Kim/Athena/Kula in 02, Kula/Gato/Oswald in XI, K'/Raiden/Shen Woo in XIII arcade. It's not a free ride, but the player could really just play their own game when using teams like these and ride pretty easy. You could choose O.Sagat in ST, but you can't really just throw dumb projectiles all day (has to be smart ones) and really know the match ups and play those match ups. Even in 3s, when you pick up Chun Li you have to learn each hit confirm (pretty easy) but then go learn stuff like SGGK with her and learn to confirm cl.RH and sjc into SA2 among other things.

    So really, I've stated why I'd say KOF is not harder to learn as SF. It might be just as hard, but I really doubt at the higher levels it's more difficult than ST or so. I'm willing to be stated wrong, but you have to prove it to me first with actual content if you're going to stand by your stance. What's harder and more complex about the spacing? Is it Chris that keeps doing hyper hop j.CD that locks the player down, then the player uses neutral hop j.B or D to poke at the right spacing to punish Chris, then encourage Chris to start doing super jump j.CD in which the player uses this opportunity to run underneath and anti-air with a cr.B into a full combo, then Chris starts to mix-up his slides and spacing in which the player could respond properly with hop-ins or what not? Is grappler okizeme that complex? Is learning how to guard roll against bad 2-in-1s that complex? Is anti-airing a hop with st.A that complex? Is it hard to recognize when to alternate guard against a bad tick throw attempt? There might be a lot of new things that intermediate SF players going into KOF that they need to learn, but by no means makes it hard to learn nor would it take much time to get caught up on what's going on.

    Maybe if you're utterly bad at fighting games, it might be harder to learn KOF than SF because you get steamrolled by rushdown characters able to get in full combo each time they hop or something because you're bad at blocking and using OSs.
  • PongBoomPongBoom land of ice and snow Joined: Posts: 707
    snip

    Please calm down with the wall of texts.

    Link combos and general cancelling from normals to specials seems tighter in Kof than SF. Most of my experience is from 98 and 02um. The added systems give more possibilities than A)Jumping B) Blocking C) Attacking D)Throws. This is what makes it seem to be a harder game to get into.

    Quit insinuating that I am bad at FG's because I find KOF harder. People that get a stick up their ass because of a different opinion need to STFU. Find something to do that isn't writing a novel towards me.
    Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never--in nothing, great or small, large or petty--never give in, except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.
    -Winston Churchill
  • EmXEmX Joined: Posts: 845
    Please calm down with the wall of texts.

    Link combos and general cancelling from normals to specials seems tighter in Kof than SF. Most of my experience is from 98 and 02um. The added systems give more possibilities than A)Jumping B) Blocking C) Attacking D)Throws. This is what makes it seem to be a harder game to get into.

    Quit insinuating that I am bad at FG's because I find KOF harder. People that get a stick up their ass because of a different opinion need to STFU. Find something to do that isn't writing a novel towards me.

    Uhhh? Laban makes a good post to expand on his ideas vs. yours, and you jump down his throat for it because you don't have the patience to read it? Look dude, he's offering substantive arguments in favor of what he has to say. He addressed what you had to say (at considerable length taking the context into account), and you simply restated a point that's been done to death and proven to be pretty solidly misguided before you even posted it. Don't tell him to STFU when it's you who clearly lack both the perspective to address his post and the patience to read it.
  • The_ZawmbeeThe_Zawmbee Joined: Posts: 10
    @ RedVega
    As far as executions go, I believe that KoFXIII is more akin to KoFXI. I play KoFXI and i can say the inputs are easy on pad or stick. The only thing I could say is difficult execution wise is that the Super/Max Cancels may be hard, but its all a matter of buffering your input or simply waiting to press a few buttons.

    This game is definitely offensive, every character is rushdown capable if you ask me.
    And currently console release date is set for 10/25

    I agree with PongBoom in that capcom fighters are less difficult then SNK but only because SNK's boss characters are notorious for their difficulty. Other than that it's just a matter of practice just like every other game out there.

    P.S all posts above mine -OP=nonsense :P
    Eagerly anticipating KoFXIII
    MK:Sektor
    SSIVae:Cody, Sub:Seth/Yun
  • BoboGloryBoboGlory Joined: Posts: 544
    P.S all posts above mine -OP=nonsense :P

    Yea...you really outsmart them with your knowledge coffee.gif
  • PongBoomPongBoom land of ice and snow Joined: Posts: 707
    Uhhh? Laban makes a good post to expand on his ideas vs. yours, and you jump down his throat for it because you don't have the patience to read it? Look dude, he's offering substantive arguments in favor of what he has to say. He addressed what you had to say (at considerable length taking the context into account), and you simply restated a point that's been done to death and proven to be pretty solidly misguided before you even posted it. Don't tell him to STFU when it's you who clearly lack both the perspective to address his post and the patience to read it.

    I tell him to stfu when he insists that I must be garbage at FGs because I find kof harder. Ive explained that in my view kof is harder, and he acts aggressive with insults. Boo hoo if I respond in turn. If you have so much time to read his walls of text, maybe you should have read mine above.

    Edit; Also , read my first post. All i said was if someone wanted to play we could, and you assholes jump on me as if I was saying Hile Hitler. This is why I dont post as much amymore.
    Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never--in nothing, great or small, large or petty--never give in, except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.
    -Winston Churchill
  • The_ZawmbeeThe_Zawmbee Joined: Posts: 10
    Yea...you really outsmart them with your knowledge coffee.gif
    I try my best.:china:
    Eagerly anticipating KoFXIII
    MK:Sektor
    SSIVae:Cody, Sub:Seth/Yun
  • LabanLaban KOF98 Player Joined: Posts: 2,558
    I have no patience for those that instigate views that could essentially turn people away from KOF for misguided reasons.

    If you think KOF is harder to learn than SF. Then that's what you think. You could state why and leave it at that.

    You have the audacity to say "KOF series is a lot harder than capcom fighters" as a fact. When you're willing to state an opinion in that manner, you're up to argumentation and rhetoric. That statement is simply something I do not believe in at all and I do not wish for that mindset and that perspective to be perpetuated. I don't want to see this scene to give off an impression that this game has some sort of high learning curve that scares off newer players, especially when that game does not have that learning curve. This isn't Guilty Gear, Super Turbo, or Virtua Fighter 4. Most of the people I see that say things such as "KOF is hard to learn" just because no one else plays the game and wear the fact that they learned the game (pshhhhh) like some badge of honor. Certainly, I would hope, that isn't your case but there are all sorts of people with different backgrounds that still say the same thing in the end, "KOF is harder to learn than other games."

    Since you decided upon yourself to stand by that statement, I will argue against it because it is simply false. If you have nothing more with actual content to argue for your stance, then your statement is merely degraded into an opinion based off a limited perspective.

    People, seriously, stop saying KOF is hard/er when it really isn't. Please stop saying such misguided things that will really scare away players. I'll really take it to you if you try to argue otherwise.
  • PongBoomPongBoom land of ice and snow Joined: Posts: 707
    I have no patience for those that instigate views that could essentially turn people away from KOF for misguided reasons.

    The only one turning people away from KOF is people like you, writing giant walls of text on extremely specific situations and being aggressive to anyone not sharing your viewpoint.
    You have the audacity to say "KOF series is a lot harder than capcom fighters" as a fact. When you're willing to state an opinion in that manner, you're up to argumentation and rhetoric
    The reason my posts were straightforward and came off as fact was because I was writing on my Ipod, which makes it hard to type. Also if I am posting something than it is MY OPINION. Just because I didn't write IMO after every sentence doesn't mean that isn't just my opinion.

    All I wrote was something to help the OP get started, which is by far more than what you did. If you cared so much about helping the KOF community than you wouldn't argue with me (clearly a misguided fool) but rather help this guy instead. But I suspect you'd rather much just be right on the internet. Sorry OP, for derailing your thread. Can this just be locked or something by a mod? Guys like you (Laban) make me want to quit posting here.
    Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never--in nothing, great or small, large or petty--never give in, except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.
    -Winston Churchill
  • LabanLaban KOF98 Player Joined: Posts: 2,558
    Because me suggesting DandyJ's guide or helping make the Hyperguide is not caring.

    My main beef is misinformation. We already have a bunch of people like that doing so and we don't need anymore, such as "Obscure Fowl." Sorry for taking it too harshly but hot damn, I'm too fed up with all this miscommunication, misinformation, and lack of solid concrete info.

    I've been building my KOF knowledge and I'm collaborating with others in making guides and tutorials, but I haven't really seen anyone try to step it up to my level in terms of KOF knowledge in a short span to be able to give back to the community. Sad thing is that I'm one of the newer players that have to do it. So much for the "old community" trying to make something, only a small group (Socal, Gunsmith, #SNKPlaymore) seems to be doing anything. Then to top things off, people are saying stuff like KOF is hard to learn. It's people like "Obscure Fowl" (if I say his real name he'll all get riled up and make more dumb posts) and ignorant people that feel like they have to give their faulty opinion in a straight manner that make me want to stop contributing. But, I'll keep doing what I have to do get people into the scene. That especially means stamping out any sort of bad info and proving it with arguments.

    I don't mind being proven wrong or having someone make a counter argument, but I take arguments as seriously as I do my fighting games. If every time I try to educate someone about something and use concrete details to support it, someone else is going to dance around with bad info and someone else will believe that. I don't want any sort of that.

    And the recurring, terrible statement that I've seen over the years that is just plain wrong is "KOF is harder to learn than ____ game/s." It's like saying to a new player, "Hey, this game is going to be hard as fuck, you're going to lose a lot, and this is dominated by non-American players and you little hope of actually seeing results." It's like already telling people to not even bother with the game. I'm not saying you're doing it in this manner, but I've seen other people post that simply as a means to stroke their own ego for actually "playing KOF" and "not playing SF." The fact of the matter is that it's not hard, and at this point I'm really damn mad that those who keep perpetuating it. Why do you people keep insisting upon this opinion? Why? I'll go to hell and back to argue that it isn't. I'm adamant.

    There are going to be those that not only are new to KOF, but to fighting games as a whole. And you're going to tell them right off the bat, "KOF is harder to learn than SF." Especially when most of these people are either absolutely new to KOF, or started with SFIV and even struggled with that. You're really going to say that KOF is that much harder to learn? It simply is not. If anything, KOF is easier to learn and it'll help out with most players' spacing game and understanding of normals that will really help them out when they go back to Street Fighter.

    It seems like a small thing to get riled up about, but sometimes the littlest of things greatly matter in the long run. So it's not just you, don't take it personally. I'm attacking a concept, one that I don't take kindly to. If you're willing to stand by it, please make a good rebuttal.
  • the7kthe7k Kitty Pride. Joined: Posts: 5,570
    Hey guys, I play SF, some minor MK and MvC3 but watching some of the recent KoF13 footage and tournament matches has really sparked my interest in this game...I've never really played a KoF game and I was wondering how hard is it to pick up? How's the combo leniency? Input leniency?
    What's the release date for the consoles? Is it alright to play this game on the pad like MK/SF and MvC?

    Basically I just want a minor introduction to KoF because it looks like a really cool game to get into..

    I haven't played a lot of KOFXIII (damn the lack of decent arcades anywhere in my area...) but I played the shit out of KOFXI. Maybe I'm biased, but I found everything about KOFXI easier than SF4 - especially the combo timings. If you enjoy rushdown/mix-up playstyles as much as I do, KOF will likely be your game of choice.

    If you are a SF fan primarily, then I'd recommend Garou to ease you into SNK's groove. After that, go with KOF98, KOF'02UM, or KOFXI.

    As for pad vs stick, I wouldn't say it's any different from most games. Outside of the arcades, I put all my time in on pads. Even stock PS2 pads worked just fine, thanks to it being a 4-button fighter.
    "Comebacks are fine as long as I'm the one doing them. Otherwise, they are evidence of a broken, poorly balanced game and it's all because of poor netcode and in-game lag due to poor port optimization and it was a terrible matchup and they need to patch the game and I should have won that and why does anyone even play this awful, fraud friendly game."
  • EmXEmX Joined: Posts: 845
    The reason my posts were straightforward and came off as fact was because I was writing on my Ipod, which makes it hard to type. Also if I am posting something than it is MY OPINION.

    "MY OPINION" is not some kind of intellectual shelter for shitty reasoning.

    "X game harder than Y" is pretty much the scrubby forum poster's mating call. The comparisons between kof and sf have been done to death, and frankly no one here ever needs to (or has the time to) study the question in a quantifiable way. I don't make it my objective to occupy my free time with the hardest, most intricate task available to me -- I play god damn video games! The appeal to the person making the comparison is more likely to be self serving BS or a lame troll at best. This is why you're getting snippy responses.

    PS: no one else cares if you continue to post since you are not contributing anything of value
  • PongBoomPongBoom land of ice and snow Joined: Posts: 707
    PS: no one else cares if you continue to post since you are not contributing anything of value

    Unlike you who posts deep and amazing posts about how I am a scrub.

    Anyways I believe kof is harder than sf because the timings and links are stricter than sf's. Also, more options up close and far away means more systems tonlearn, making it harder to learn. This is from my experience.

    Laban I respect your view as it comes with a lot of backround, however EmX you are an idiot. Insulting me in every post and then saying that me posting something I believe has no value means you are moron. You need to learn that in the real world people dont always agree with you.

    EmX is part of SRK. Stupid Retarded Kids. Im done with this thread. Good luck op
    Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never--in nothing, great or small, large or petty--never give in, except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.
    -Winston Churchill
  • petran79petran79 Here comes an old challenger Joined: Posts: 1,913

    If you are a SF fan primarily, then I'd recommend Garou to ease you into SNK's groove. After that, go with KOF98, KOF'02UM, or KOFXI.

    I think Samurai Spirits (not the recent 3d game) would be the easiest SNK fighting game to get used to the controls. While World Heroes is much closer to Street Fighter in gameplay than other SNK fighters.

    I have to admit though, in comparison to the past it sounds very odd to read someone playing SF, MK and MvC and leaving SNK behind.....
    too slow!
  • LabanLaban KOF98 Player Joined: Posts: 2,558
    I still don't think links are integral to KOF play like it is with CVS2, 3s, or SFIV. The most a player will be doing is Kyo's or Saisyu's cr.B > cl.C. Otherwise, everything else is really just a cancel or a chain that cancels. Since there is less of an emphasis of links, it's easier than SF. Then just because there is a bit more to learn, doesn't necessarily mean it's harder to pick up. There's more limitations in SF and it's easy to understand the concept of spacing, but to set up an opponent with limited means is easier said than done and is quite difficult. Since KOF has a multitude of responses (as in being able to come in from different angles, use a variety of frametraps, and etc.) it's easier for the player to do what the player wants during the course of the game rather than to stick with a stricter gameplan and play out the match up.

    So the difficulty is in discipline and playing against the player, not necessarily the learning of a few new subsystems and spacings. Since links aren't that important at all even, I don't see how it reflects the difficulty of learning KOF. And if you need links, they're usually pretty easy 2-3 frame links. The main ones that are harder to land is Kyo's cr.B > cl.C and Iori doing the same link but he needs to get a deep meaty cr.B on an opponent's oki to get the cl.C.

    Thanks for understanding my point though. I'm just really, really tired of bad information and false impressions.
  • rukawa_kaederukawa_kaede ({「決最終戦奥義」}) Joined: Posts: 3,412
    Laban is trying is hardest to make KOF appealing to the masses, not a bad thing IMO
  • SatoSato Never Knows Best Joined: Posts: 16
    Personally I say just wait till KoFXIII if you're used to SF. It actually reminds me a lot of SF3. 98 and 2002 are also really good but if you're going competitive just wait but if casual 98,99,2002,XI.
    GT: Kill3rSushi
    PSN: AkiraOmega
  • lawlerlawler Joined: Posts: 38
    The difficult of KOF series is not the combo execution, wich is indeed fairly easy overall (except for some in '02, wich people don't even try, due to the risk of droping it and get punished hard).

    What makes KOF harder than SF IMO is that KOF is a faster paced game. In SF you have plenty time to react to most things, you have time to think about your options, etc.

    In KOF, things happens too fast, one must have fast reflexes and reactions. Another thing is in KOF you have more game mechanics to deal with character's pressures, block strings etc. That's why people tend to say that the spacing in KOF is weak. It's not weak, you just have more game resources compared to SF.

    The best example I could give to support my opinions is that many KOF players do well in SF (RF, Kyabetsu, Poongko, Xiaohai, Uryo, Oogosho, Kyapu and others) while the other way around don't happen too often... So yeah, I think KOF is harder than SF. But that does not mean SF is trash, on the contrary, it's a very fun game too, it's just more "average joe oriented" than KOF.
  • LabanLaban KOF98 Player Joined: Posts: 2,558
    For me, KOF seems more "average joe oriented" than SF on a global scale mainly due to the extended subsystems. Let's say we have ST where most situations the only real escapes are reversals (easier said than done.) So when an opponent gets stuck in the corner by O.THawk, Chun Li, or Dictator, it's difficult for most players especially beginners to get out. Similar in 3s with checkmate situations and the demand of the player to be able to perfectly parry everything (easier said than done.)

    With KOF in this aspect, it's very easy (even for beginning players) to just roll, guard cancel roll, or guard cancel blowback. Although bad rolls or bad guard cancel blowbacks could be baited and punished, there are generally more and easier ways of getting out of sticky situations than in previous SF games. The execution demanded from doing revesals in Super Turbo, Alpha Counters in Alpha 2, or Red Parries in Third Strike is much more difficult than confirming a blocked attack and simply pressing C + D.

    Lawler, you could argue that KOF is generally a faster game and I respect that and believe that too (except for ST.) So one needs "good reactions" to be able to punish situations and what not. But, the executions needed to answer to those "fast situations" are really simple. If anything, it's a bit easier to deal with pressure, especially sloppy offense, by just hanging back and simply react to things that require a few button inputs. Let's say an opponent just keeps on doing sloppy hops, just use something like st.A to anti-air it. It's not like the player has think about buffering a dragon punch or charging for a flask kick, the player sees a hop and presses a button. Same thing for bad jumps, do cl.C or cr.C on reaction rather than needing to buffer a super or dragon punch. Heavy normals are generally much better in KOF games than they are in SF games that give a lot of leeway and ease to anti-air with without overly relying on special attacks. There's a reason why they call the "Mexican Uppercut" the "Mexican Uppercut." It's a simple anti-air that is a fan favorite of Hispanic players that started on KOF first and still use that simple means of anti-air although it's not as good in SF(IV) unless they're playing Boxer or Guile.

    So while KOF may demand marginally more in reaction than SF, the execution required to go in hand with those reactions are actually easier. Then there are other factors that go into account such as being able to react to certain hops or bad tick throw mix-ups (and needing to react with alternate guarding) and comparing that to Street Fighter footsies and being able to react to bad crouching normals and being able to confirm a whiff and counter-poking and confirming into something. I wouldn't say SF footsies are harder than reacting to hops, mix-ups, or certain attack strings or vice versa. But rather, each aspect to both games are really, really comparable and more similar than one may think.

    In regards of having more time to think about one's options during a match, I'd say the amount of timing of holding back and questioning each other's intents are pretty similar. In 02um or 98umFE, I see tournament players willing to neutral hop, hop backwards, roll backwards, walk backwards, dash backwards and maintaining position before really going all in and balls to the walls. Especially in match ups such as Nameless vs. Nameless or what not I see a lot of testing of approaches before all the "quick reactionary" stuff "has to happen." I do agree though in games such as SFIV that players have huge amounts of time to actually think about things and cool off. In return, older SF like ST doesn't necessarily give the player that luxury and the games end as fast or even faster than in KOF (unless it's a really silly Guile mirror match or something.)

    So overall, while I may think that KOF is a tad bit easier to learn than SF, both actually have similar learning curves anyways and it's almost negligible. I don't mean to "argue for the sake of arguing" but rather clarify on certain statements and am willing to have friendly debates to clear things up.

    Also it's pretty obvious, I like attention to detail~
  • lawlerlawler Joined: Posts: 38
    It's a nice post, I think I agree with you in almost everything. We both agree that KOF is faster and thats only for that reason alone I think KOF is harder to play. But this is just my opinion.
  • LabanLaban KOF98 Player Joined: Posts: 2,558
    It's cool~
  • SatoSato Never Knows Best Joined: Posts: 16
    Well since SF is just a bunch of plinking I think KoF is much harder to grasp with the DC and shit.
    GT: Kill3rSushi
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  • LabanLaban KOF98 Player Joined: Posts: 2,558
    Because it's hard to just cancel a special into a special than to soften a 1-frame link by doing a plink.
  • SatoSato Never Knows Best Joined: Posts: 16
    Sarcasm is sarcasm.
    GT: Kill3rSushi
    PSN: AkiraOmega
  • davidkong07davidkong07 Scrub Random.Ultra.David. Joined: Posts: 815
    yo kof13 is an awesome game! if you like it, you will learn it, simple as that, doesn't matter how hard/easy it is. just pick it up, i'd bet you won't be disappointed
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  • NissanZaximaNissanZaxima Joined: Posts: 7,686
    I just think the whole "X game is harder than Y game" in general is pretty dumb. This is one reason why players from different games seem to have this barrier between them. Because people will jump at the bit to puff out their chest and brag about how hard their game is to play. I am not saying that some games aren't harder than others, but people talk about it for all the wrong reasons. "My game is harder than yours that means I have more skills yo". Funny thing is, out of people I have met, the better overall fighting game players don't have this attitude at all. They are more often than not willing to help players get better in any game and don't really care about this difficulty scale that a lot of the FGC uses for games. The intermediate theory fighters seem to be the ones who really like to drop all this "this game is harder than that" bullshit for the sake of sounding smarter or like a fighting game O.G.
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  • LabanLaban KOF98 Player Joined: Posts: 2,558
    I just think the whole "X game is harder than Y game" in general is pretty dumb. This is one reason why players from different games seem to have this barrier between them. Because people will jump at the bit to puff out their chest and brag about how hard their game is to play. I am not saying that some games aren't harder than others, but people talk about it for all the wrong reasons. "My game is harder than yours that means I have more skills yo". Funny thing is, out of people I have met, the better overall fighting game players don't have this attitude at all. They are more often than not willing to help players get better in any game and don't really care about this difficulty scale that a lot of the FGC uses for games. The intermediate theory fighters seem to be the ones who really like to drop all this "this game is harder than that" bullshit for the sake of sounding smarter or like a fighting game O.G.
    That's what happens a lot with KOF on SRK. Since it seems like no one else really plays KOF seriously in general, a few intermediate players like to toss out that "they play KOF and it's harder than SF" like it means anything. Then not only are they saying that for their own selfishness, they're perpetuating something that can't truly be proven let alone hold any weight. All while getting less experienced players to think that it actually is hard to learn and just not even bother learning the game. Although it's a bit petty, I'll actually argue against these kinds of people just to get them to shut up about it.
  • Maria CroftMaria Croft Joined: Posts: 924
    I've never really seriously played a KOF game before, just the Vs games, and I don't think they are very helpful as in teaching me the game.
    Unfortunately I can't play at the Arcade's so my first change to play will be when the game drops.

    I already know I'll main Mai no matter what, but my question is what are easy characters to pick up and play?
    Also, as a KOF beginner what are the first and most important things I need to learn, gameplay wise?
  • LabanLaban KOF98 Player Joined: Posts: 2,558
    I've never really seriously played a KOF game before, just the Vs games, and I don't think they are very helpful as in teaching me the game.

    Unfortunately I can't play at the Arcade's so my first change to play will be when the game drops.

    I already know I'll main Mai no matter what, but my question is what are easy characters to pick up and play?
    Also, as a KOF beginner what are the first and most important things I need to learn, gameplay wise?
    http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Mai_Shiranui_(KoF_'98)
    http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Mai_Shiranui_(Real_Bout_2-Era)_(KoF_'98)

    These should help out learning Mai. I made the Real Bout 2-Era guide from scratch and both versions of Mai are relatively similar. So if there are a few normals that are missing or not as in-depth in the regular Mai guide, then checking out the O.Mai guide could help out.

    The links Feez posted are to DandyJ's Beginner's Guide to KOF. I personally used these to get my fundamental game down for KOF and really helped me out to where I am as a player now. That and reading Maj's Footsie Guide on Sonichurricane.com.

    In regards to other characters to pick up, I'd say that learning Iori and a grappling character are pretty essential as a beginner. In KOF98, Iori is a top tier character that has all the tools to rushdown and to turtle and mix-up with command throws. Although he's really good, he's really designed in a way that he's not linear to play as and is a great addition to a team while trying to learn basics. The grappler okizeme game is different in KOF than it is in most fighting games as the player could either do a command throw on wake up, or meaty an opponent to keep him on the ground and still be able to combo into a command throw anyways. So there are these funky 50/50 situations that happen and it's good to get familiar with these situations as a beginner.

    So for a game such as KOF98, a good team for you would be Iori/Mai/Ralf. In 02, perhaps Iori/Mai/Clark. If you want to get a head start, you could play on GGPO and play with others. Personally, I had a 2 year head start by playing in 98 room 1. It's like I was a little baby that was thrown into the lions' den.
  • FemtoFemto Joined: Posts: 4,651
    snip

    Average Joe wouldn't even listen to all this. Try explaining the jump system in KOF to a casual gamer and dude's head is gonna explode. It's not that it's complicated for people who are into fighting games, but the Average Joe is likely to take a shining to SF since, at base level it's easier to explain and slower.
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