Sub 1 frame HDTV/Monitor Input Lag Database

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  • jaytoojaytoo Joined: Posts: 750
    It would be great if we could somehow find a unified testing methodology. There is no 100% way, but the part that makes this so hard is all the variables. Different resolutions, different types of inputs, different modes, even different panel types in the same model. Definitely a big shoutout to SaveFighting for starting this thread (seriously, that other thread has needed to be closed and restarted for at least a year and a half now).

    Dunno about input types and resolutions, but rather than a clunky 2-monitor setup, wouldn't using an LED modded controller be better? Use a camcorder and just get the controller in the same shot as the screen, and start recording. Load up some sort of testing program (maybe just Joy2Key to mouse clicks or something). The LED theoretically will have 0 latency. Run through the video frame by frame to see how much the monitor lags behind.
  • WarpticonWarpticon Main otaku of SRK #2 Joined: Posts: 9,968
    I'm not sure trying to 60 frame capture the exact timing of a button press with a camera is any less clunky than using two monitors. At least with the latter the data can't really be misinterpreted.
    If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the compound.
  • RoboKrikitRoboKrikit nuclear Joined: Posts: 1,943
    I think for these tests, using a reliable splitter and testing vs a CRT is the best option, averaging the result over many samples and noting anything important about the distribution. For our purposes it is best to test both 720p and 1080p; 480p wouldn't hurt either. Most of the monitor tests I see only test at the monitor's native res.
  • ZapfZapf Joined: Posts: 545
    Was it ever determined that doing a 720p test where your comparison monitor is 1080p, but showing the 720p image in dot for dot mode (not scaled) was reliable? I was going to test the panasonic l32c3 if I wasnt satisfied with the l32u3, but my only monitor I can use to compare right now with the proper splitting method is a vh236h

    edit: shit, this doesnt even have a dot by dot mode.
  • vegeta614vegeta614 Joined: Posts: 10
    Great Thread. Been looking for this.
  • HTX.08.20.02HTX.08.20.02 Joined: Posts: 225
    I assume the numbers on the tv/monitors are an average? Im about to return a tv I got as a gift so now I guess Im in the hunt for a low input lag tv as a replacement.
    Two of the tv's in the OP are in this video, Samsung LE32C530 and the LG 32LD450.


    edit: oops re-read the OP. Sorry I missed where it says its averaged.
  • ZapfZapf Joined: Posts: 545
    Are there lag results for the vh236h at 720p? I need a number for comparison tomorrow when I test the l32c3
  • SixfortyfiveSixfortyfive likes Saturn pads. Joined: Posts: 1,807
    Are there lag results for the vh236h at 720p? I need a number for comparison tomorrow when I test the l32c3
    A quick test I did vs a CRT suggested that it lags just over 1 frame at that resolution. (Clone mode, Asus on DVI, CRT on VGA, all snapshots displayed either a 1 or 2 frame difference.) Dunno if that's thorough enough for your needs.
    "This is a perfectly balanced VS." - PTX-40A, Tatsunoko Vs Capcom
  • phoophanphunphoophanphun Joined: Posts: 6
    I'm going to buy the Asus Vh236H monitor. Will using HDMI or VGA make a difference as far as input lag is concerned ?
  • ThEmperorIsDeadThEmperorIsDead Joined: Posts: 35
    Awesome thread, just got the BenQ on Friday.
  • shadokenshadoken Joined: Posts: 564
    What do you guys think about this monitor??
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004J6BIJ8/ref=s9_simh_gw_p147_d0_g147_i2?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1MN3G3W9H7XHP02CQ1KH&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846

    Looks like its the same as the EVO monitor but its LED...am guessing that would proly give it a tiny bit more lag... but if its almost the same as the EVO monitor ill proly pick this up since its around the same price...
  • ShughliShughli Joined: Posts: 38
    I thought Evo monitor was best atm, good to know that there are even better monitors out there... Is Benq XL2410T the best monitor atm for PS3 use???
  • RoboKrikitRoboKrikit nuclear Joined: Posts: 1,943
    The Evo monitor has never been best for performance, but has been best all-around when price and its wide use in tournaments is considered.
  • takinflighttakinflight Victory Declaration Joined: Posts: 2,872
    isnt it funny how a game that represents an old-school era such as sf4 actually needs or should be played on tube tv sets for no lag..... lol....thats sick.

    You could just see it now ...36" SONY Trinitrons at all the future EVO's
    E3 1999 Staples Center: Immediately after Capcoms Alpha 3 tournament, which we apparently just missed....2 friends and I line up to the left of the main stage, hop on that alpha tre, we take almost a good 30 games straight from group of East Asian players.
    Its after a 22 hit Akuma tatsu juggle to end 1st match, the Japanese guy on P2, looks over and says " Damn its like that?" as I jump on, Im laughing quietly shrugging my shoulders. My friend goes "Hell ya fool! Wattup!? " and begins full up-rock, windmill to continuation and then pops back up in a bboy stance. Asian press chick/gf with them takes a couple pics of us and a couple of them and us. Later asks if we knew the guys we just beat...get this......Japans 2-8 aka Worlds 2-?? at that time? GTFO! i didnt follow any tourney shit, back then. We all laughed with a so what...a bit later them shrooms started kickin innnnnnn :-)
    We also go on buying Ice T a drink a couple hours later, parlayed for a good min,got a photo w him and us, played like Sega rally or some shit with the dude. Hes a great guy btw....later we try to get Coolio stoned while following his lil click around trying to figure out for one if his hair was real and secondly,who the hell were these dudes he was with,because these dudes were NOT in the Fantastic Voyage, or Gangsters Paradise videos and we kept asking them to spit something, we were beat boxing for some lady at Zoopit...??? wtf? where'd they go??? lol... We close out the night heckling Jay Leno, his chin and jeans as he gets ready to do some bs tech show interview , like pre tech TV

    The End.
  • WarpticonWarpticon Main otaku of SRK #2 Joined: Posts: 9,968
    What do you guys think about this monitor??
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004J6BIJ8/ref=s9_simh_gw_p147_d0_g147_i2?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1MN3G3W9H7XHP02CQ1KH&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846

    Looks like its the same as the EVO monitor but its LED...am guessing that would proly give it a tiny bit more lag... but if its almost the same as the EVO monitor ill proly pick this up since its around the same price...

    With all due respect, this isn't a "what do you think of ____" thread. It's not about guessing or assuming, and it's not about further obscuring useful information by having every third post be somebody asking for details of one of the hundreds of models out there. This thread is about compiling actual information so all that won't be necessary. If you don't see test results posted, then consider "nothing" what people think about it thus far.
    If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the compound.
  • oPEEPINGTOMooPEEPINGTOMo Joined: Posts: 11
    Do any of you know of some more TN sub 1 frame 27" monitors?

    I have been looking for a 27" monitor with very low input lag, but other than user reviews that say "it feels fine to me" I cannot seem to find any with the actual stats.

    Also the native resolution I need is 1920x1080.

    Thanks.
  • azprocazproc ^ loves dem Jingle Bells Joined: Posts: 2,782
    I'm going to buy the Asus Vh236H monitor. Will using HDMI or VGA make a difference as far as input lag is concerned ?
    No.
    Sometimes I open SRK and am forced to say: notto disu shitto agen
    I actually don't play Marvel.
  • MatarickMatarick Joined: Posts: 123 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Also, hdtv test have reviewed the other newer 30 series of Panasonic plasma displays but they did not make the list since they had over a frame of input lag.

    As an TC-P42S30 owner, I am now crying inside :'(
    Former Hardware Editor for PSXNation.com (2001-2004) and Games Editor for Binary-Culture (2007-2008) .
  • GamogoGamogo Common sense isn't. Joined: Posts: 2,892
    Do any of you know of some more TN sub 1 frame 27" monitors?

    I have been looking for a 27" monitor with very low input lag, but other than user reviews that say "it feels fine to me" I cannot seem to find any with the actual stats.

    I am in the same situation. My best findings have been these:

    Viewsonic VX2753mh-LED:

    http://viewsoniceurope.com/uk/products/productspecs.php?id=312 (no formal lag stats)

    Viewsonic VX2739wm:

    http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/viewsonic_vx2739wm.htm (9.4ms lag)

    Asus VE278Q:

    http://www.digitalversus.com/asus-ve278q-p357_10137_150.html (no formal lag stats)

    I personally tried the VE278Q and noticed input lag (I currently use a BenQ E2400 HD which weigh in at around 7 - 8 ms average input lag). The VX2753mh-LED is my target screen but I cannot find any concrete stats for it.
    Guacamole is awesome.
  • SaveFightingSaveFighting Games & Pussy..Cats Joined: Posts: 407
    As an TC-P42S30 owner, I am now crying inside :'(

    They never reviewed the P42S30 they reviewed the P42ST30 (The 3D enabled model which had under a frame of lag in 2D mode), the S30 is lacking 3D so I'd say there is a very high chance the input lag is sub 1 frame. :) Only way to really find out is for you to test it. :P
    Real gamers play Fighting games. Fuck all the haters.
  • oPEEPINGTOMooPEEPINGTOMo Joined: Posts: 11
    I am in the same situation. My best findings have been these:

    Viewsonic VX2753mh-LED:

    http://viewsoniceurope.com/uk/products/productspecs.php?id=312 (no formal lag stats)

    Viewsonic VX2739wm:

    http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/viewsonic_vx2739wm.htm (9.4ms lag)

    Asus VE278Q:

    http://www.digitalversus.com/asus-ve278q-p357_10137_150.html (no formal lag stats)

    I personally tried the VE278Q and noticed input lag (I currently use a BenQ E2400 HD which weigh in at around 7 - 8 ms average input lag). The VX2753mh-LED is my target screen but I cannot find any concrete stats for it.


    Yea I was looking at the VX2739wm but they seem to be hard to find now. If you find any lag stats on the VX2753mh-LED please let me know because I am also looking at this one but am hesitant to purchase it until I know how many ms of input lag it has.
  • GLockNYneGLockNYne G-Lock Joined: Posts: 121
    If only I can find any of those 32inchers for sale from a legitimate website or local store! They're so hard to come by now. It's the only thing stopping me from getting a Kraylix :(
  • NomadicNomadic just here to rage Joined: Posts: 155
    Can anyone tell me what are some of the best big screen TVs for fighting games? I know the Bravia's are up there and some of the Panasonics as well, but how big can you go with TV's until lag becomes bad?

    Thanks
    Simile!
  • ShughliShughli Joined: Posts: 38
    Now i got this Benq XL2410T i just tested it with Ps3 and it seems so far so good . Though i will test this against my old Benq G2412 and see if i manage to feel any more input lag :D
  • airsairs Joined: Posts: 74
    Can anyone tell me what are some of the best big screen TVs for fighting games? I know the Bravia's are up there and some of the Panasonics as well, but how big can you go with TV's until lag becomes bad?

    Thanks

    Size has nothing to do with input lag. The first page lists some good models. I know that the ST30 series of the 2011 Panasonic Plasmas has been tested to have less than 1 frame of lag as well. Here's a review: http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/panasonic-tx-p42st30b-p42st30-201105161138.htm#picture
  • besighyawnbesighyawn Joined: Posts: 3
    Anybody have good recommendations for a monitor with a tv tuner (or small hdtv with a decent pc compatibility). I was leaning towards the Samsung P2370HD-1 and ruled out the Samsung FX2490HD based off this test http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=36&mo1=806&p1=9721&ma2=36&mo2=543&p2=5966&ph=1

    I started looking at the Samsung B22/23/2430HD series, but I couldn't find any input lag tests on them. Anybody with experience on them?

    I know it would be much easier to just find a regular monitor, but I really would like the tv tuner and extra inputs and I'm ok with accepting a reasonable jump in input lag (the P2370HD-1 is 21.3ms)
  • ShinjiGohanShinjiGohan Joined: Posts: 5,117 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    they have splitters that output in dvi/vga, which may or may not work.
    The point is, however, that clone mode doesn't produce accurate results.
    neither would that splitter. Either your videocard outputs analog through a DB15 VGA port, or digital though a DVI or HDMI port. Putting your port to a splitter to both VGA and DVI would have to convert either an analog signal to digital or digital to analog (depending on what your videocard natively outputs in the first place). Either way one of the outputs will have some added lag due to the video feed having to go through a process to convert the signal to something the other than what it already is. Thus making said test unreliable.

    Think of it this way if the videocard outputs digital through DVI and you have that going to an lcd screen which actually lags 32ms. Meanwhile the VGA port of the splitter goes through a conversion process of digital to analog which for the sake of this arguement takes 32ms (could be 1ms or 1sec, you don't know since you never bothered to test out this splitter). So now when you perform this test. You'll end up seeing that the timings for both the CRT and LCD are the same so you end up believing that its lag free. When in actuality it lags 32ms, but you couldn't tell because the splitter which converted the digital to analog also created lag.

    Heck you might even get instances where the LCD would be rated faster than a CRT depending on how long the conversion process takes from the digital to analog.
  • threithrei Low IQ Idiot that plays charge characters Joined: Posts: 726
    That is assuming that the device you are using accepts digital signals over DVI only. (Which is why i said it "may or may not work")

    The actual spec for DVI carries both Analog and digital signal (DVI-I). Not every device accepts that format though, and will only accept a digital DVI signal (DVI-D). Depends on the device being tested.

    Once again, that is completely besides the point. The point, once again, is that clone mode does not produce accurate results.
  • ShinjiGohanShinjiGohan Joined: Posts: 5,117 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    and neither does the splitter for the reasons that I mentioned.
  • piskooooopiskooooo anime swag Joined: Posts: 4,386
    I use two Samsung T240HDs, the only problem with them is they're glossy :(
  • threithrei Low IQ Idiot that plays charge characters Joined: Posts: 726
    and neither does the splitter for the reasons that I mentioned.
    You have some things wrong.

    First of all, the splitter has no DAC. It is just a wire. It HAS to use the DVI-I spec.

    Secondly, the input is VGA (analog) not DVI. You are connecting it to the VGA out of your videocard, not DVI out. Even if it did, 99% of modern videocards support analog out through DVI (DVI-I).

    There is no analog to digital processing on the splitter at all, that is up to the device to do (once again, if the device supports DVI-I spec at all.)

    The part where you are getting confused is where you assume that the splitter does an analog to digital (VGA > DVI-D) or digital to analog (DVI-D > VGA) conversion. It does not, it has no circuitry to do so. The splitter works by splitting the analog incoming signal to VGA, and DVI's analog component (DVI-I).

    VAgJK.png

    Different types of DVI cable (Analog only DVI vs Digital DVI) are keyed differently. When I say it "may or may not work", I mean that the cable may not even fit (meaning the output device doesn't support that spec).

    It has absolutely NOTHING to so with any processing lag because...there is no processing to be done.
  • ShinjiGohanShinjiGohan Joined: Posts: 5,117 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    That is my mistake because the digital/analog conversion is done on the motherboard/videocard (depending on if you have integrated graphic display or not).

    Thus there is still potential for lag from the processing even if its done on the same port. Unless you can show me that the motherboard/graphics card holds the digital signal in a buffer until the analog signal is done being prepared and then sends them out in sync. Otherwise I'd be inclined to believe that the same problems that you have with 2 dvi ports in clone mode may be present even along the same port.

    Besides that in a few years DVI will be discontinued and won't even be supported by videocards/motherboards who are opting for an all digital soluiton. Either being "Displayport" or HDMI. Thus to provide support for older analog systems such as a our baseline analog CRT monitors there will be a seperate transcoder being required thus forcing us into the realm that I stated above.
  • FuturespectFuturespect Joined: Posts: 60
    edited February 2015
    .
    Post edited by Futurespect on
  • BlackNoobBlackNoob Ultimate Loser Joined: Posts: 224
    Damn I guess the Alienware Optx AW2210 is discontinued, so its out of the picture. I really like mine and caught it on sale for $170. I remember hearing it was slightly better than the Asus Evo monitor, just overly expensive. Now that they are discontinued for the newer 3D model, you may be able to snatch some up for cheap. Maybe Frys still has them http://www.frys.com/product/6279270?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
  • ZapfZapf Joined: Posts: 545
    That is my mistake because the digital/analog conversion is done on the motherboard/videocard (depending on if you have integrated graphic display or not).

    Thus there is still potential for lag from the processing even if its done on the same port. Unless you can show me that the motherboard/graphics card holds the digital signal in a buffer until the analog signal is done being prepared and then sends them out in sync. Otherwise I'd be inclined to believe that the same problems that you have with 2 dvi ports in clone mode may be present even along the same port.

    Besides that in a few years DVI will be discontinued and won't even be supported by videocards/motherboards who are opting for an all digital soluiton. Either being "Displayport" or HDMI. Thus to provide support for older analog systems such as a our baseline analog CRT monitors there will be a seperate transcoder being required thus forcing us into the realm that I stated above.

    Is there measured latency results for the hdfury? I would assume if that could be taken into account, an hdmi splitter with one input going through the hd fury into your crt would be a valid test.
  • IjiwaruIjiwaru SLUT CRUSHER Joined: Posts: 185
    I am in the same situation. My best findings have been these:

    Viewsonic VX2753mh-LED:

    http://viewsoniceurope.com/uk/products/productspecs.php?id=312 (no formal lag stats)

    Viewsonic VX2739wm:

    http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/viewsonic_vx2739wm.htm (9.4ms lag)

    Asus VE278Q:

    http://www.digitalversus.com/asus-ve278q-p357_10137_150.html (no formal lag stats)

    I personally tried the VE278Q and noticed input lag (I currently use a BenQ E2400 HD which weigh in at around 7 - 8 ms average input lag). The VX2753mh-LED is my target screen but I cannot find any concrete stats for it.

    Did you try adjusting the "Trace Free" option to 40 like they did? The review had my hopes up for a bit, but then I read your response haha.
  • GamogoGamogo Common sense isn't. Joined: Posts: 2,892
    Did you try adjusting the "Trace Free" option to 40 like they did? The review had my hopes up for a bit, but then I read your response haha.

    Response time has nothing to do with input lag. This option is for adjusting the GTG settings.

    But ya, compared with the BenQ E2400 HD and G2420 screens, I can feel lag on the VE278Q. I'm really hanging out for some VX2753mh-LED figures.
    Guacamole is awesome.
  • oPEEPINGTOMooPEEPINGTOMo Joined: Posts: 11
    Response time has nothing to do with input lag. This option is for adjusting the GTG settings.

    But ya, compared with the BenQ E2400 HD and G2420 screens, I can feel lag on the VE278Q. I'm really hanging out for some VX2753mh-LED figures.

    If you end up jumping the gun and getting the vx2753wm or find any info on it will you please let me know. I have a hard time believing digital versus because they said that the asus ve278q was lag free but I have read otherwise on the net. I wish they would provide numbers in ms instead of just saying no/low lag. I was thinking about the asus after their review until I read some user reviews around the net and saw the video on YouTube.
  • TizocTizoc Joined: Posts: 11,406
    OK sorry if this isn't the place to ask but what's a good Sony HDTV for gaming? I've done a quick search on google, but the best I can find are the Sony KDL models, but they have 20-30 ms input lag.
    "You have to be a badass if you ride a giant seahorse." -Grant Morrison on why Aquaman is badass
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  • WarpticonWarpticon Main otaku of SRK #2 Joined: Posts: 9,968
    OK sorry if this isn't the place to ask but what's a good Sony HDTV for gaming? I've done a quick search on google, but the best I can find are the Sony KDL models, but they have 20-30 ms input lag.

    Why does it have to be sony? And again, I'm not trying to be mean, but this thread is about compiling a database of displays and their test results, not for random requests or "hey, is this TV/monitor good?" This happened in the previous thread, and it ended up filled with junk and the same questions being asked over and over. Also, there were some Sony TVs recommended 6 posts before yours. The idea of this thread is to prevent people from popping in and asking the exact kind of question you just asked.:lol:
    If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the compound.
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