Sega HSS-0136 Mod Work Log

DarksakulDarksakul I find your lack of Faith Disturbing.Joined: Posts: 24,673
Hello and Welcome to my HSS-0136 Work Log.

The Sega HSS-0136 is a 1 player equivalent of the larger and more famous Sega HSS-130
which is a fully functional replica of a Astro City Control panel made for the Sega Saturn and later the Dreamcast.

The Sega Virtua Stick HSS-0136 is not to be confused by it failed US counterpart
The Sega Saturn Virtua Stick MK 800112
44509417-260x260-0-0_Virtua+Stick+for+Sega+Saturn.jpg
The MK 800112

Keep in mind this project is far from complete at the time of writing but I hope to provide insight and assistance to others hoping to do the same mod.

First I got a Dreamcast Variant of the HSS-0136 Virtua Stick. Re-branded as the "DC GAMEMATE"

HSS-0136before.png
Before tear down

The Words DC Game mate and Fighting Stick are just foil labeled applied to a preexisting Sega Saturn HSS-0136. Yes at the factory the Sega Saturn HSS-0136 was converted quickly to Dreamcast with a few foil labeled applied on the top panel and this
SStoDCConverter001-1.jpg
A Sega made Sega Saturn to Dreamcast converter.

Too bad this one was broke before I received it too. Some of the wires from the dreamcast cord came loose. I tried to re-solder them back to the board. but unfortunately they were in the wrong order. As when I used it I burned out the controller ports on my Dreamcast.

Ok, lets go Repair the Dreamcast controller board.
Using this guide
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-repair-a-dreamcast-with-dead-controller-por/
I replaced the burned out Resistor-Fuse with two 10 ohm metal oxide resistors I got from Radioshack. A less than $2 repair.

DSCF1479.jpg
DSCF1480.jpg
DSCF1478.jpg
There is the location of the bad resistor-fuse, I neglected to take a picture of the completed repair
but you should see how its done in that Instructible link I gave above.

The red and black wires on the controller board are from a unrelated mod where I replace the cmos battery with a standard 3 volt coin battery.

Okay back to the HSS-0136 Virtua stick.

I manage to peel off the top panel art with out destorying it, by soaking the whole top panel in HOT water then carefully and slowly pealing off the art. Remove the panel from the rest of the arcade stick first before water submersion.

HSS-0136Panelart001-1.jpg
A scan I did of the panel art

Inside I found an Ascii Joystick and knock of buttons, both are Bantha fodder.
Earlier HSS -0136 sticks had Seimtsu parts, later on (especially the DC variant) Sega to save money switched to Ascii made parts. HSS-0136 with Ascii parts have 29 mm button holes, so just like the Sega Agetec stick for the dreamcast the button holes needed to be widen or a replacement panel needs to be made. I also suspect the holes for the joystick mount is off from Sanwa/Seimtsu standards so I have to drill new mount holes later on as well. LS-40, LS-55 and LS-56 fits in where the stock Ascii stick was.

2011-09-29224610.jpg
The button daughter board. Note the cut Ribbon cable.

You have to unsolder each button, or snap the buttons off, as in a mod you not using this daughter board again. I saved it to test the traces to find out the wiring order.

I will add more as my Project progresses.
“Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
- Darth Vader, Philanthropist

Comments

  • DarksakulDarksakul I find your lack of Faith Disturbing. Joined: Posts: 24,673
    For everyone refrance, here is the insides of a Sega HSS-0136 D3v posted in the Sega Stick Appreciation thread
    http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/sega-stick-appreciation-thread.119257/#post-4738603

    I will start to do open case shots later on as things develop.
    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
    - Darth Vader, Philanthropist
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 37,269 mod
    If you're putting an LS-56 in, can you test if the ASCII shaft fits so as to keep the height correct. The LS-56 Sega used had a shorter shaft than standard. That said, an LS-56 should be a simple drop in replacement.

    Also, any chance you can simply fit Seimitsu microswitches in those buttons?
  • DarksakulDarksakul I find your lack of Faith Disturbing. Joined: Posts: 24,673
    If you're putting an LS-56 in, can you test if the ASCII shaft fits so as to keep the height correct. The LS-56 Sega used had a shorter shaft than standard. That said, an LS-56 should be a simple drop in replacement.

    Also, any chance you can simply fit Seimtsu micro-switches in those buttons?
    I will look into it, I got some spare Seimtsu push buttons, testing the micro-switches should me a cinch.

    [EDIT]
    Correction, just tried to fit in Seimtsu, Sanwa and Hori switches into the stock buttons.
    It is a no go. Seimtsu is too big, and the Sanwa and Hori is too small. Also the stock Ascii plunger doesn't fit the micro switches at all.

    I still need to order a LS-56 any ways, I can give the stock shaft a shot but no grantee it will work.
    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
    - Darth Vader, Philanthropist
  • DarksakulDarksakul I find your lack of Faith Disturbing. Joined: Posts: 24,673
    Updates (10/29/2011):
    Completely blew out the DC controller board and ended up replacing it entirely. I might be able to fix it if I change the resistors out, but I decided to cut to the chase and eliminate any issues. It also had a fresh CMOS battery. At least the Dreamcast is repaired

    Having issues with the converter dual-mod, I am not sure if it was the imp or the Mad Catz Xbox 360 PCB, I decide to take a break and tackle this later.
    I will by-pass the imp and re-test the Xbox 360 pcb to see if it is what or the imp. The Fight pad worked before I started. I am just taking my time as I waiting on
    on parts to be delivered from Aki shop so there no rush.

    After this conversation
    http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/sega-stick-appreciation-thread.119257/page-3#post-6044508
    If (and when) I determine the LS-56 do not work out at all I have a plan-B for the stick. Modding the top panel and getting a new metal top panel made are also options.

    I also notice how similar the Sega Saturn Twin Stick shell is to the HSS-0136 shell, it lacks the slots for turbo switches, So after a mod project where someone source the 2 trigger sticks for a dual-mod, the shell left behind will work as a nice HSS-0136 shell substitute, although it will need a new top panel. There is a guy who did this on a different forum, I waiting if it okay with him before I re-post the image of his work.
    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
    - Darth Vader, Philanthropist
  • DarksakulDarksakul I find your lack of Faith Disturbing. Joined: Posts: 24,673
    Okay I checked my mail today and got my parts from Aki ship, yes the LS-56 fits in the HSS-0136 Ascii sticks spot.
    Apparently it was easier for Ascii to be fit around the Seimtsu stick mounts than it is for Sega to make a new top panel.

    The Ascii shaft does fit the LS-56, but the response to the LS-56 was terrible with the Ascii shaft.
    The Ascii shaft below the main body was TOO short, and had to use the Ascii Pivot and Actuator, since the LS-56 was made for a cylindrical activator and not a cone shape one(ascii) , it took very deliberate moves to activate each switch.
    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
    - Darth Vader, Philanthropist
  • DarksakulDarksakul I find your lack of Faith Disturbing. Joined: Posts: 24,673
    Seimtsu LS-56-01 to Ascii HSS-0136/LS-56-01 clone Joystick comparison and breakdown

    Just so that people reading and attempting there own HSS-0136 mod
    Here is a comparison of the Seimtsu LS-56-01 (was in older HSS-0136) and the Ascii joystick found in newer HSS-0136 arcade sticks

    The Ascii stick here is different that the Ascii sticks used in other arcade sticks, such as the Ascii JLF clones in some Dreamcast and PS1 Arcade sticks, especially those who use the Ascii optical board. This Ascii Stick is a rough LS-56-01 clone.

    DSCF1487.jpg
    Unless otherwise states LS-56 on the Left and Ascii on the Right
    as you can see above.

    DSCF1489.jpg
    Both joysticks with balltop, dust washer and mount screws removed. And the LS-56 has the mount plate removed.
    Note they both take use of a 5 pin wiring harness such as the Seimitsu HP5, the Sanwa JLF-H, or Toodle's JLF-TE cable

    DSCF1491.jpg
    The bottom of both joysticks.

    DSCF1493.jpg
    Both has there guides removed.

    DSCF1492.jpg
    Both guides

    gatescrewscompasison.jpg
    Both guide screws. The Seimtsu screws for the guide are silver/ grey and the Ascii guide screws are black.
    I also want to note that the Ascii screws can be used to substitute as case screws for the Sega HSS-0136's case.

    DSCF1495.jpg
    Both joystick's PCB boards. Both PCB boards are very similar but do not fit in the others main body.
    The Seimtsu's micro-switches are also more closer together and the Ascii is more spaced out.

    DSCF1488.jpg
    Dust washer for both joysticks. LS-56 on left, Ascii on the Right.
    The Seimtsu Dust washer has a lager opening.

    DSCF1496.jpg
    Both e-clips. Other than the LS-56's e-clip as a shiner finish they are identical.

    DSCF1499.jpg
    Both Main bodies, spring covers( a.k.a. hat piece) and the Ascii Spring cover washer

    DSCF1500.jpg
    Both shaft's with Pivots. The Seimtsu shaft as a shaft cover as well.

    PivotsComparison.jpg
    Both pivots, top and bottom views.

    DSCF1497.jpg
    Both actuators. Note the Seimtsu actuator is a cylinder while the Ascii Actuator is a cone.
    The Ascii shaft would fit the Seimtsu actuator (in the LS-56 assembled) if you manage to cut some of the top part of the actuator off.
    I did not want to "ruin" my only Seimtsu actuator.

    DSCF1498.jpg
    Both springs. Although the LS-56 spring is shorter, the spring is stiffer and seems to be made of a tougher alloy.
    Also the Ascii spring will not fit in the LS-56 Actuator, but the LS-56 spring will fit in the Ascii.

    DSCF1505.jpg
    Both Shafts. LS-56 is on the bottom, the Ascii is on the top.

    DSCF1504.jpg
    Same parts but the LS-56 shaft as the shaft cover removed here.

    DSCF1506.jpg
    Here is an attempt to fit a Sanwa shaft over on the Ascii shaft, the Seimtsu shaft cover does not fit ether.

    DSCF1503.jpg
    Ironically the Sanwa shaft cover fits over the LS-56 shaft.

    DSCF1512.jpg
    Normal mount heights of both joysticks when installed in a HSS-0136. The LS-56 sits about 10mm taller.
    Adding spacers or washers can lower the mount height of the LS-56.
    Due to the spacings on my Ruler, the measurements are about 1 cm/ 10 mm off.

    I found that using space spacers I had left over from a Blk Lighting panel works well.

    Next stop, fitting 30 mm buttons into a stock panel.
    I will be using Seimtsu PS-15 30mm push buttons.
    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
    - Darth Vader, Philanthropist
  • d3vd3v Coughing DAT PINK SPIT Joined: Posts: 37,269 mod
    Have you tried to use the ASCII shaft with the LS-56 to try get the proper height for the HSS-0136?
  • DarksakulDarksakul I find your lack of Faith Disturbing. Joined: Posts: 24,673
    Have you tried to use the ASCII shaft with the LS-56 to try get the proper height for the HSS-0136?
    Yes I have, but as you notice in the pics above the Ascii shaft lower area is shorter than the LS-56, so LS-56 parts do not all want to fit on the ascii shaft, and I can't get the e-clip into place. So instead I tried to place the ascii pivot and actuator so I can get the e-clip on.

    The Ascii cone shape actuator was terrible with the LS-56 Micro-switch board as it does not always want to engage the micro-switch levers.
    It took every deliberate, very forceful movements for the micro-switches to actuate. Another solution would be to cut the LS-56 actuator down to be shorter.

    Like so

    DSCF1497-1.jpg
    Approx point where the LS-56 actuator would be cut theoretically, as the Ascii actuator is much shorter.
    If you do try this, grab a extra LS-56 Actuator just in case.

    My solution to the mount height was to use some spacers to lower the height of the LS-56 under the metal panel.
    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
    - Darth Vader, Philanthropist
  • The_ThirdThe_Third Poverty Gamer Joined: Posts: 1,009
    Is there an ample amount of clearance from the bottom of the shaft to the stick's bottom plate after adding spacers?
  • DarksakulDarksakul I find your lack of Faith Disturbing. Joined: Posts: 24,673
    With the spacers I used yes, 5mm added, but too much more and you will start to have the shaft scratch against the bottom panel.
    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
    - Darth Vader, Philanthropist
  • DarksakulDarksakul I find your lack of Faith Disturbing. Joined: Posts: 24,673
    Just realize I didn't leave a wiring guide, when you remove the daughter board, you still need to wire in new wires to go to the push buttons

    hSS0136buttonwiringa.jpg
    The board you be removing, with the soldering points color coded
    I am showing this on this board because it is easier on me
    The ribbon pin out is in the same order on the main board

    Here is the pin out for that ribbon cable going from top to bottom.
    Ribbon pin out from top to bottom (see photo for orientation)
    1. X
    2. Y
    3. B
    4. Z
    5. C
    6. R
    7. A
    8. L
    9. Gnd
    DSCF0004.jpg
    The main PCB with new wires soldered in place
    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
    - Darth Vader, Philanthropist
  • DarksakulDarksakul I find your lack of Faith Disturbing. Joined: Posts: 24,673
    If you haven't notice I have yet to post anything about installing any PS3 or Xbox 360 compatible PCBs in there.
    I am planing to keep the PCB Stock, so the turbo switches and original start button is intact.

    That means converters

    Converter Compatibility Thread

    FGW Converter Thread - Roll your own converters

    I took the FGW Converter route. Only issue is my own attempts failed a few times. Putting my Pride aside I asked Gummo to build me one for a modest price.
    Was it worth it, keeping the integrity of a discontinued and classic stick but make it open to use on other systems, YES.
    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
    - Darth Vader, Philanthropist
  • DarksakulDarksakul I find your lack of Faith Disturbing. Joined: Posts: 24,673
    Okay I got my Converter in, works great. LS-56 is better for shmups, didn't try it on fighting titles yet.
    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
    - Darth Vader, Philanthropist
  • kikimaru024kikimaru024 Mid-tier scrub Joined: Posts: 1,703
    Hi Darksakul,

    does LS-40-01 fit without any modification (height etc?)
    Thanks.
    Seimitsu & K-sticks > Sanwa JLF.
    This truth is not universally acknowledged.
  • DarksakulDarksakul I find your lack of Faith Disturbing. Joined: Posts: 24,673
    Good question.
    And I do not have a honest answer for you as I haven't dealt with a LS-40.

    I think it depends if the LS-40 can utilize the same mount panels and the LS-55 and 56 or the LS-32. As the LS-32 has a larger main body and takes a bigger screw pattern for the mount plate. An LS-32 will not fit the stock top panel of the HSS-0136.
    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
    - Darth Vader, Philanthropist
  • GeorgeCGeorgeC Joined: Posts: 2,850
    Yeah,

    The LS-32 by comparison to JLF or LS-40 is freakin' huge!

    I never liked the fact that you have to disassemble the LS-32 to install it in any joystick cabinet.
    The PCB/microswitch assembly gets in the way and you can't access the mounting plate without unscrewing the PCB first!

    The way the JLF is assembled is a lot more convenient and avoids all the screws that the LS-32 uses. Has to be a cheaper joystick to make because you avoid all that extra labor screwing things together and the extra screw hardware. Unfortunately, I also think that the clasps the JLF uses to retain the restrictor gate are a weakness, too. If the clasps on the black exoskeleton break, the JLF falls apart.

    I've also had a JLF restrictor gate base break after moving the middle square/octo part around. The plastic in the "tongs/clasps" that hold the inner wheel on tends to weaken and they can break if you adjust the gate too much. Probably not a huge issue, really, since the four-way restrictor on the standard JLF square gate is a piece of junk. Seimitsu's four-way restrictors are much better. They work very well on Pac-Man!
  • DarksakulDarksakul I find your lack of Faith Disturbing. Joined: Posts: 24,673
    Were kinda going off topic here, this is concerning joystick installation in a Sega HSS-0136 Virtua Stick.
    Unlike it's cousin the HSS-0130, the HSS-0136 lacks the nice friendly universal mount, especially with the "newer models that is made with Ascii parts instead of Seimtsu. I can tell you right now that the HSS-0136 can not and will not take a JLF with out heavy modification to both panels. Also unlike the HSS-0130, the HSS-0136 lacks the resources off all the nice replacement Astro city panels.

    Although I can not give a straight answerer for the LS-40, I can ensure you that the LS-56 fits perfectly, by it self the LS-56 will mount higher than the Ascii joystick will, and there isn't enough clearance to get the same mount height. I can get with in 5mm of the ascii's stock height using spacers.

    You will need to remove the mount plate of the LS-56 and bolt the LS-56 directly to the top panel (with out with out spacers). I tried to mount the joystick with the spacers and mount plate and it was beginning to scratch the bottom plate, as you can see there isn't much clearance room in the stick.
    The PCB/microswitch assembly gets in the way and you can't access the mounting plate without unscrewing the PCB first!
    Not in this case with the LS-56 as the Mount plate is removed, using the 4 holes the joystick attaches to the mount plate to instead mount to the top panel.

    I don't have any clear pictures to illustrate this yet. I will after I get a thin plexy for the top panel.
    I going to replace the art soon any ways, dispite getting the stock art off in one peice, the art is warped and I just going to replace this with replica art. The added bonus of the plexy is I don't need to destroy this art if I need to remove the joystick again.
    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
    - Darth Vader, Philanthropist
  • KyleKyle PS-14-Gangsta Joined: Posts: 4,735 mod
    edited March 2016
    Necro time. I've been playing a lot of Saturn lately with the advent of Rhea. I have an HSS-0130 but decided I wanted one of these for turbo. :)

    Since these aren't cheap sticks and I want Seimitsu, I made an easy picture to send to eBay sellers for confirmation. Hopefully this will be helpful.

    hss0136.jpg
    6-Button is cooler
    8-Button is dick
  • DarksakulDarksakul I find your lack of Faith Disturbing. Joined: Posts: 24,673
    You did well my son.
    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
    - Darth Vader, Philanthropist
  • kikimaru024kikimaru024 Mid-tier scrub Joined: Posts: 1,703
    Seimitsu PS-14-G should fit right?
    (1.28" / 32.5mm installation depth)
    Seimitsu & K-sticks > Sanwa JLF.
    This truth is not universally acknowledged.
  • DarksakulDarksakul I find your lack of Faith Disturbing. Joined: Posts: 24,673
    Seimitsu PS-14-G should fit right?
    (1.28" / 32.5mm installation depth)

    The panel I had, the button holes are slightly to small and have to be filed to be larger
    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
    - Darth Vader, Philanthropist
  • jopamojopamo Stuck in Silly-con Valley Joined: Posts: 1,369
    From a width perspective—yes—they need to be filed (or in my case, Dremeled) to 30mm. The buttons installed in this stick from the factory are the same as the Agetec stick for Dreamcast—which are 28mm in diameter. As far as depth is concerned, they should fit, as I shoehorned in Sanwa OBSF-30s into my HSS-0136–which are taller than PS-14-G’s. Just know that you might need to bend connector tabs (I did) to get everything to fit.
  • kikimaru024kikimaru024 Mid-tier scrub Joined: Posts: 1,703
    Hmm, I could do that.
    Just trying to decide on colours myself (I picked up a junker HSS-0136 on eBay, should be here next week).
    Seimitsu & K-sticks > Sanwa JLF.
    This truth is not universally acknowledged.
  • DarksakulDarksakul I find your lack of Faith Disturbing. Joined: Posts: 24,673
    I might just get another in the future just for the PCB inside.
    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
    - Darth Vader, Philanthropist
  • kikimaru024kikimaru024 Mid-tier scrub Joined: Posts: 1,703
    OK so before I order an LS-40-01 for this, help me confirm this is correct:
    @jopamo 's mounting shows 25mm of JLF shaft above the plate, therefore total space beneath is (34+34-25) = 43mm.

    LS-40-01 install depth is (35.8+4.8) = 40.6mm
    So, it should fit no problem?
    Seimitsu & K-sticks > Sanwa JLF.
    This truth is not universally acknowledged.
  • jopamojopamo Stuck in Silly-con Valley Joined: Posts: 1,369
    No promises. The only way to find out is to buy n’ try.
  • DarksakulDarksakul I find your lack of Faith Disturbing. Joined: Posts: 24,673
    OK so before I order an LS-40-01 for this, help me confirm this is correct:
    @jopamo 's mounting shows 25mm of JLF shaft above the plate, therefore total space beneath is (34+34-25) = 43mm.

    LS-40-01 install depth is (35.8+4.8) = 40.6mm
    So, it should fit no problem?

    Only joysticks that fit without modification are the LS-53,56,58 and 60
    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
    - Darth Vader, Philanthropist
  • electricgraveelectricgrave KOBURAH!!! Joined: Posts: 51
    I'm glad you guys got this thread running. I got my hands on 2 HSS-0136, one complete but in need of whiting and a new CPO. The other which I've had for years on the back burner project list, just a case someone attempted to paint (horribly I might add), I'd like to bring both back to standard, the painted stick...I might just recreate the PS2/USB Black Virtua Stick since I'm gonna be painting the case no matter what after some sanding or peeling off the previous horrible paint job.

    I'd really like to get my hands on the template if there is such. I've seen so many Virtua Stick adapted templates that there must be a standard VS template out there somewhere, otherwise I'll just have to make it from scratch, I just did some Astro "tribute" CPO for HRAP so it shouldn't be hard to work around it but still...if anyone has any idea or sources please LMK. Thanks in advance.

  • jopamojopamo Stuck in Silly-con Valley Joined: Posts: 1,369
    I’m working on a re-pro template right now. Kids and work got it on the slow-mo mode though. I’ll post here when I’m done.
  • electricgraveelectricgrave KOBURAH!!! Joined: Posts: 51
    edited January 7
    I saw your tutorial for the JLF mount while doing some searching for the VS template, great work! Might just follow suit, I also prefer the JLF over the LS series.

    I might just get on a jumpstart on the template, maybe we can have a collaboration of sorts if you're willing. I'll post some mockup results here, if you have any advice or critique, I'd be very grateful.

    Edit: Here's what I've done so far...
    26230463_10204062294714104_4223521254270478824_n.jpg?oh=3a6eb69b5290022a979be485488b68bf&oe=5AE8C5E6


    PS: I know the sphere S is supposed to be black...I'll fix that later.

    Edit: Credit where is due; The MCTE Virtua Stick template that's being used lately was a tremendous help to get things started, so thanks to whoever made it. I also used the Astro CP for color matching.
    Post edited by electricgrave on

  • kikimaru024kikimaru024 Mid-tier scrub Joined: Posts: 1,703
    Shiiit, SRK forums are closing!

    Where are y'all going to post updates?

    I'll probably link Tumblr via Twitter:
    https://twitter.com/Count_Kiki
    Seimitsu & K-sticks > Sanwa JLF.
    This truth is not universally acknowledged.
  • DarksakulDarksakul I find your lack of Faith Disturbing. Joined: Posts: 24,673
    Shiiit, SRK forums are closing!

    Where are y'all going to post updates?

    I'll probably link Tumblr via Twitter:
    https://twitter.com/Count_Kiki

    We will make our own Tech Talk, with Black Jack and Hookers.
    “Strong people don't put others down... They lift them up.”
    - Darth Vader, Philanthropist
  • electricgraveelectricgrave KOBURAH!!! Joined: Posts: 51
    edited January 9
    Oh sad news. Figures things close up as I come back after a long hiatus.

  • killkong1211killkong1211 Joined: Posts: 101
    Darksakul wrote: »
    Shiiit, SRK forums are closing!

    Where are y'all going to post updates?

    I'll probably link Tumblr via Twitter:
    https://twitter.com/Count_Kiki

    We will make our own Tech Talk, with Black Jack and Hookers.

    Ya know what, forget the tech talk and blackjack.
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