A more complete explanation of the Shun Goku Satsu

YagamiFireYagamiFire Hobby: ResurrectionJoined: Posts: 2,841
edited December 2016 in Fan Fiction Library
<reposting this from Capcom-Unity to hopefully spark some discussion here>

// Please keep in mind this stuff is all my interpretation and opinion backed up with explainations and citations where-ever and whenever possible! Also I am always happy to discuss how or why I came to certain conclusions because I love the sort of discussion that delves into canon //

In the interest of some discussion, I figured I'd post up some of my ramblings on one of the more mysterious parts of Street Fighter: The infamous Shun Goku Satsu. As a little heads up, this post won't be short! Best of luck to anyone reading it all and thanks to anyone that gets through to the end and replies! Now, as a fair warning, the Shun Goku Satsu/Instant Hell Murder/Hundred Demon Attack/Raging Demon/wowthishasalotofdifferentnames is a very vaguely detailed technique so quite a bit of it is going to be based on interpretation. I'll attempt to explain my reasoning behind my interpretations as best as possible.

Our actual understanding of the SGS is actually less limited than one might think since we have about 20 years of informational tidbits to draw from. Our best source to start from is this excerpt reproduced in the Plot Guide regarding that very move. I'll break it down and interpret it as best as I can, step by step.

Master Goutetsu spoke of a forbidden technique, "shungokusatsu." With
that move, it was said that even one's own life would be also cut off in a
moment of unparalleled intensity. Namely with one to have made use of this
"satsui no hadou" would be impossible to control, to run wildly until that
life's very end, so it was said.

Master Goutetsu spoke of a forbidden technique called the "Shun Goku Satsu". A move so unmatched in its intensity that it would even cut off the life of the user. That is to say, the "Satsui No Hadou" (Surge of Killing Intent) used with it would become impossible to control, causing the user to become beserk for the remainder of their days.

[Here we have a brief look into the SGS. It is a move so dangerous it even threatens the users own life by way of consuming it. The SGS is fueled by Satsui No Hadou, the killing intent that Goutetsu's fighting style is based on. Unlike the other moves of the style, however, the intensity of the SGS causes that killing intent to go out of control...it consumes the user and makes them, for lack of a better word, crazy for the rest of their life. We got an obvious glimpse of this with Evil Ryu who is mentally consumed by the Satsui No Hadou...unlike Akuma, he's a rampaging madman that kills everything in his path. This is the threat of dipping to deep into Satsui No Hadou, and the SGS was thought to be impossible to use without being consumed.]

Gouki, pronouncing all ancestors "fools" for sealing this "shungokusatsu,"

selected his path to break that ban on his own.
"To become fighters, true warriors of the fist must possess all power
that can be utilized. Those who ban techniques cling to life in stinginess,
which this warrior of the fist does not!"

Gouki, deciding his forebearers were "fools" for forbidding the "Shun Goku Satsu", decided that he would be the one to lift the ban on it. "To become fighters, warriors of the fist must possess all power they can. Those who would ban a technique are cowards, but this warrior is not!"

[Pretty simple stuff here. Gouki/Akuma, being the total boss that he is decides that he's going to be the one that resurrects the SGS.]

Gouki filled himself with confidence. Having controlled the ancestors'
"satsui no hadou", the "shungokusatsu" was utilized. But Gouki's own self
changed. Usually when collecting "satsui no hadou", to acquire manipulation
of it many years past became a piling heavy burden. "Who exists that is
stronger" now became the wish, and this request would be answered with the
spraying of blood incited by training. The forbidden move was done. He
selected Master Goutetsu as his opponent. As there was about to be a fight
to the death, the opponent had no deficiencies.

Gouki was brimming with confidence. Having mastered the "Satsui No Hadou", the Shun Goku Satsu was achieved. But with it, Gouki changed. Over the years, usage of the "Satsui No Hadou" bore down as a heavy burden on the user. "Who is stronger?" became the single question, and the only way to answer it was with the spilling of blood in combat. The forbidden move was unlocked. Master Goutetsu was chosen as the first opponent. Since it was to be a fight to the death, the opponent had to be flawless.

[Here we have Akuma, quite pleased with himself that he has mastered the SGS. However, though he hasn't been consumed by the Satsui No Hadou, he's still been warped by it. All you have to do is look at Akuma to know that he's been strongly inflluenced and changed by the power of the Satsui No Hadou with his fearsome appearance. Akuma becomes consumed with the desire to seek out strong opponents in battle and he chooses his master Goutetsu as his first test of his new-found skills because he knows his master is phenomenally strong.]

".....arm yourself now!!" The spirit kept secretly inside exploded, the

cells of Gouki's entire body rose in sound with a resonating sensation.
......several hours later, Gouki's entire body in blood returned a scarlet
hue, as he moved and saw the master's corpse.
hadou's ultimate move "shungokusatsu," armed with "satsui no hadou" that
struck the master, was complete.
From then on, Gouki walked the long "path of carnage's" first walk.

"Prepare yourself!" The power hidden inside explodes out, Gouki's very cells beginning to resonate with the power. .....several hours later, Gouki, his body soaked red by blood, stirred and saw his masters corpse. The hadou's ultimate technique "Shun Goku Satsu", fueled by the "Satsui No Hadou", that struck his master, was done. At that moment, Gouki took the first steps on the long "path of carnage".

[And here is the culmination of the attack. Gouki and Goutetsu meet in their first ever death-match, and Gouki is victorious after he slays Goutetsu with the SGS. This is his first step on his dark path of mastering the fist. The real interesting part here is that it takes HOURS for Gouki to stir again and become fully aware of what has occured.]

So what we know of the SGS is that it requires Satsui No Hadou to function and actually requires so much that before Akuma, it was thought it was impossible to use it without the SnH driving the warrior mad. Of course, Akuma overcame this and mastered the SnH and, with it, the SGS. As we can see in the excerpt though, when he uses it against Goutetsu it actually takes him hours to recover from dredging up that much SnH. This explains Evil Ryu and his madness. He's possessed by SnH and its turned him into a raving, bloodthirsty lunatic. Akuma is, of course, far more self-controlled than this.

What this doesn't tell us, however, is WHAT the SGS actually is. Thankfully, Akuma actually tells us in the Japanese dialogue of SF4. When he uses the Shin Shun Goku Satsu as his Ultra he says, essentially, "A thousand strikes in an instant"...and that is, in a nut-shell, what the SGS is. In the span of a heartbeat, the SGS bares down on its victim with countless blows (or maybe around 15 or 27 if the in-game hit-counter is to be believed). Its basically a moment of pure, lethal, absolute violence, a series of attacks so quick and so perfect that its impossible to (traditionally) defend against.

And thats it. There's nothing bizarre, otherwordly or mystical about the attack...instead, its an expression of absolute mastery of the fist and pure violence. While its often been put forth that there is hell and demons and such involved, then Shun Goku Satsu doesn't literally have anything to do with all that.

If anyone is up for some discussion on this stuff, or if anyone has any counterpoints, please post 'em up! I'm going to be following this up with some musings on Mu as well, especially since understanding the SGS helps us understand Mu and vice versa!
Post edited by YagamiFire on
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Comments

  • YagamiFireYagamiFire Hobby: Resurrection Joined: Posts: 2,841
    Bumping this because it's experiencing an increased level of interest. :)
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  • True GraveTrue Grave Keepaway Specialist Joined: Posts: 3,554
    *gazes at the mountain of text*

    ....you can't shorten any of that?
    "Power without perception, is spiritually useless and therefore of no true value"
  • YagamiFireYagamiFire Hobby: Resurrection Joined: Posts: 2,841
    True Grave wrote: »
    *gazes at the mountain of text*

    ....you can't shorten any of that?

    You know, it's really not that much. :P

    However, I'll summarize with some bullet points...

    The early info we have about the SGS is actually that it's dangerous to the user not because it can cause them physical harm but because the amount of Satsui no hadou it requires channeling to use overwhelms the attacker and drives them mad for the rest of their life. We already know Satsui no Hadou can do this because...well...Evil Ryu; the guy is nuts and a raving, vicious madman. The SGS was forbidden because it was believed that the amount of SnH the user had to channel would ALWAYS lead to them going beserk. Akuma proved that wrong.

    Also, there is no great mystery as to what the SGS does. Akuma tells us. "A thousand strikes in an instant...!" And...that's it. In one moment you get hit impossibly fast with a wall of violence. Remember, SnH increases strength, speed, etc. So it is like being whaled on by a super-strong Flash for a second. Devastating. Now...whether it's actually a thousand strikes or 15 (or 27 for the Ultra) is debatable. Akuma speaks metaphorically a lot so it might not necessarily be a thousand. Still, even 15 lethal blows in the span of a heartbeat is a devastating attack. Pure murder.

    Why isn't the "Take to hell" interpretation plausible?

    1. Akuma fights 1 v 1. The concept of him having an army of demons dog-pile someone is the complete opposite of 1 v 1 combat. It's incompatible with Akuma.

    2. Akuma cannot teleport, he simply moves with super-speed. No teleport = no teleporting to hell.

    3. Mu No Ken is an actual martial arts concept that involves perfect technique (defense) without action...not the nullification of one's karma. This concept is also seen in Hokuto No Ken and in Tenjho Tenge, two other martial arts series. In fact, in Hokuto no Ken, Mu is the counter to that series version of Satsui No Hadou (seriously, Street Fighter basically copied it directly).

    So that's it, in a nut-shell. The hell thing has never been accurate and has always been entirely based on large amounts of conjecture and extrapolation. This simpler explanation is based instead on what we know of Akuma's character, what we know of martial arts lore, and what we can compare to in other, similar works of fiction. It also resolves what Mu is based on those same points.
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  • ToreyBeansToreyBeans I'mma make u buy me lunch later! Joined: Posts: 704
    If you really look at the very English translation of Shun Goku Satsu, it really means Instant Imprisonment Death. The other translation, Instant Hell Murder, specifically the "hell" portion is an absolute mistranslation. Goku does NOT mean hell, it means prison as in confinement. Now Jigoku is definitely the word for hell. I really feel that word goku has stirred up more trouble than it's been worth.
  • MaxGritMaxGrit Master Baiter Joined: Posts: 291
    nice read
    SSF4T on GGPO is very fun.
  • FengShuiEnergyFengShuiEnergy ARIA is the only answer Joined: Posts: 10,762
    So that's what the SGS truly does...it was overhyped from the start...Well Akuma just lost 5 points.
  • Running WildRunning Wild Rock You Like A Hurricane Joined: Posts: 3,168
    Just read the Street Fighter Ryu FINAL manga and you get to see what the Shun Goku Satsu is.
    Multiple strikes, each one releasing a mini-Hadouken causing an internal explosion

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  • XthAtGAm3RGuYXXthAtGAm3RGuYX SRK's ResidentSleeper Joined: Posts: 11,659
    Just read the Street Fighter Ryu FINAL manga and you get to see what the Shun Goku Satsu is.
    Multiple strikes, each one releasing a mini-Hadouken causing an internal explosion

    Sounds like Evil Ryu Ultra 2. I always loved that hadoken charged face smash at the end.
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  • Keepin'em HonestKeepin'em Honest Da Last Real N*gga Left Joined: Posts: 763
    Interestin' read, indeed. Given what Akuma said in A3, I always thought the technique was some sort of soul death move. I never believed the whole demons mobbin' you in Hell bullshit, but I do think the move is way more supernatural than just ultra fast strikes. Akuma, Gen, and Gouken have all stated that the more evil you are, the harder you die and that the move, some how, is dangerous for the user as well.

    The real mystery to me is, how the Hell the move is actually done?! In gameplay, he slides up on you but outside of that, the Shun Goku Satsu has been used in 1000 different ways.

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  • superlollosuperlollo S Tier Joined: Posts: 2,967
    TL;DR?
    Things that should be patched:
    - People that constantly complain that there should be a patch.

    by. J.Scogz
  • MaxGritMaxGrit Master Baiter Joined: Posts: 291
    superlollo wrote: »
    TL;DR?

    you forgot?
    SSF4T on GGPO is very fun.
  • VolcanicAkuma55VolcanicAkuma55 Joined: Posts: 1,991
    last hit of SGS is akuma impaling u on his arm
    SF main: Akuma
    not wannabe, GUNNA BE pro. just need more practice.
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  • Combo_KnightCombo_Knight DashUppah, Muhfuqqah! Joined: Posts: 5,313
    but I do think the move is way more supernatural than just ultra fast strikes. Akuma, Gen, and Gouken have all stated that the more evil you are, the harder you die and that the move, some how, is dangerous for the user as well.

    I've always seen the move itself as a demon art, that only is super effective against the wicked. because the demons of hell clamour for the souls of those banished to them

    ......or whatever.
    ---
  • b64b64 Joined: Posts: 21
    edited November 2013
    It's a thousand strikes in an instant. It instantly kills the opponent. It's unlikely that it has anything literally to do with hell.
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  • YagamiFireYagamiFire Hobby: Resurrection Joined: Posts: 2,841
    b64 wrote: »
    It's a thousand strikes in an instant. It instantly kills the opponent. It's unlikely that it has anything literally to do with hell.

    Indeed. Especially considering the word "Hell" doesn't even appear in its name.

    Also, Keepin'EmHonest...where do Gen or Gouken ever make the claim about it doing greater harm to those of greater evil? Never ever seen this in my research.
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  • Keepin'em HonestKeepin'em Honest Da Last Real N*gga Left Joined: Posts: 763
    edited November 2013
    @YagamiFire

    Gen and Akuma both say somethin' to that effect in A3 and maybe even A2. They also add that you have to empty your soul in order to survive it, ie Gen and Ryu survivin' the attack while much more powerful characters like Bison and Gill do not (of course they have powers that allow them to come back from the dead.) Gouken has said this as well, but I don't remember the source, prolly wasn't canon anyway.

    I've always seen the move itself as a demon art, that only is super effective against the wicked. because the demons of hell clamour for the souls of those banished to them

    ......or whatever.

    Could be...I know alotta people who think this and Capcom has never really confirmed or denied that this was the case. I just think that since shit like Heaven or Hell have never been confirmed to exist in Street Fighter, I would just assume that it's some sort of spiritual karma assault.

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  • YagamiFireYagamiFire Hobby: Resurrection Joined: Posts: 2,841
    Gen and Akuma both say somethin' to that effect in A3 and maybe even A2. They also add that you have to empty your soul in order to survive it, ie Gen and Ryu survivin' the attack while much more powerful characters like Bison and Gill do not (of course they have powers that allow them to come back from the dead.) Gouken has said this as well, but I don't remember the source, prolly wasn't canon anyway.

    Yeah no they don't. Akuma says it is your "inequities" or "sins" that kill you, not his fist. This is already addressed in the OP.

    And do you know what "empty your soul" means? Again, covered in the OP...it doesn't mean anything because it's mistranslated gibberish. They achieved the state of Mu, they didn't "empty their soul". Mu is a martial arts concept...not a karmic one.

    Also the only current proof we have of Akuma fighting Bison (there is NO canon indication that Gill was ever SGS'd) points to Bison being totally unharmed by the battle (though his clothing was damaged).
    Could be...I know alotta people who think this and Capcom has never really confirmed or denied that this was the case. I just think that since shit like Heaven or Hell have never been confirmed to exist in Street Fighter, I would just assume that it's some sort of spiritual karma assault.

    If heaven/hell have not been confirmed to exist...why would a "spiritual karma assault" exist when karma is linked to a concept of hell? That doesn't make a lot of sense.
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  • b64b64 Joined: Posts: 21
    edited November 2013
    YagamiFire wrote:
    Also the only current proof we have of Akuma fighting Bison (there is NO canon indication that Gill was ever SGS'd) points to Bison being totally unharmed by the battle (though his clothing was damaged).
    Well, Bison was killed by Akuma at the end of SF2. At least, his body was destroyed. His scientists brought him back prior to SF4 in what seems to be not the strongest body.

    youtu.be/ggHlWlh1mLg
    Post edited by b64 on
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  • Keepin'em HonestKeepin'em Honest Da Last Real N*gga Left Joined: Posts: 763
    edited November 2013
    YagamiFire wrote: »

    Yeah no they don't. Akuma says it is your "inequities" or "sins" that kill you, not his fist. This is already addressed in the OP.

    Obviously, I don't agree with you.
    YagamiFire wrote: »
    And do you know what "empty your soul" means? Again, covered in the OP...it doesn't mean anything because it's mistranslated gibberish. They achieved the state of Mu, they didn't "empty their soul". Mu is a martial arts concept...not a karmic one.

    And again, I don't agree with you. And the bit about "emptying your soul" being mistranslated, mistranslated accordin' to whom? Makes sense to me, seein' as how WAY less powerful victims have survived the attack and the concept of Mu wasn't even in the picture back then. I'm gonna choose what the game actually said over what you think they mean, every day of the week. Your thoughts are interestin' but I don't actually agree with them,
    YagamiFire wrote: »
    Also the only current proof we have of Akuma fighting Bison (there is NO canon indication that Gill was ever SGS'd) points to Bison being totally unharmed by the battle (though his clothing was damaged).

    I don't need "current" proof when I've seen Akuma clearly use the attack to defeat both characters in the past. Again, I'm gonna go by what actually happens in the game over fan explanations that attempt to disprove what I just saw in the game.
    YagamiFire wrote: »
    If heaven/hell have not been confirmed to exist...why would a "spiritual karma assault" exist when karma is linked to a concept of hell? That doesn't make a lot of sense.

    Oh Idk, maybe Akuma uses a move where HE HIMSELF makes hell for the user's soul. We got guys that grow six wings and resurrect form the dead, others who soul and mind generate weird purple flames, chicks who can see the future, a dude who spits fire and teleports, and ancient old dudes who can throw out spirit bombs. Let's not mention that Akuma himself has split Ayers Rock with a punch. Him usin' a move where his soul interacts with the users to make'em reap what they've sown isn't a stretch by a long shot.

    Now, if any of these events have been completely retconned by SFIV, then I wouldn't know about that since I stopped carin' about SF's plot with that game's introduction. SF just got stupid at that point. I moved on to much more interestin' Capcom fightin' game plots like Darkstalkers and Rival Schools.

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  • b64b64 Joined: Posts: 21
    And again, I don't agree with you. And the bit about "emptying your soul" being mistranslated, mistranslated accordin' to whom? Makes sense to me, seein' as how WAY less powerful victims have survived the attack and the concept of Mu wasn't even in the picture back then. I'm gonna choose what the game actually said over what you think they mean, every day of the week. Your thoughts are interestin' but I don't actually agree with them.
    So far, Akuma killed Goutetsu, Gouken and Bison with SGS. Bison is alive as he got the new body. Gouken survived likely through his power of nothingness (I'm not exactly sure how, it's yet to be revealed, hopefully in USF4). Anyway Akuma in his SF4 ending mentions that he senses that Gouken has awakened, therefore he expected Gouken to be alive.

    As for Gen, he prevented SGS from hitting him using his technique. Akuma then noticed that Gen was ill and he left the battle because of that, so the fight formally ended without a winner.

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  • FengShuiEnergyFengShuiEnergy ARIA is the only answer Joined: Posts: 10,762
    edited November 2013
    b64 wrote: »
    YagamiFire wrote:
    Also the only current proof we have of Akuma fighting Bison (there is NO canon indication that Gill was ever SGS'd) points to Bison being totally unharmed by the battle (though his clothing was damaged).
    Well, Bison was killed by Akuma at the end of SF2. At least, his body was destroyed. His scientists brought him back prior to SF4 in what seems to be not the strongest body.

    youtu.be/ggHlWlh1mLg

    As for Gill, it's unlikely that he met and fought Akuma during the SF3 events (If they fought, it happened at the end of SF3:2I). When SF3:2nd Impact is completed with Shin Akuma, it shows Gill laying on the ground defeated while the credits are shown. Then Gill suddenly resurrects himself and "To be continued" message appears on the screen. However, if the game is regularly completed with Akuma, it shows the regular ending without any connections to Gill. Considering that "Shin Akuma" mode is not canon in SF3:2I, I'm almost positive that they didn't fight.

    Stronger then his SF2 body but without the PD it's probably just weaker then him without the PD (ala SFA3). Still very powerful. Probably more then a match for Ryu still.
    Post edited by FengShuiEnergy on
  • angelpalmangelpalm Do not fist the android grills!! Joined: Posts: 23,026 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    Lol Why would non christians give a fuck about heaven and hell?

    Why would a karate move teleport you anywhere in the first place let alone hell. Niggas is dumb ass shit...
  • YagamiFireYagamiFire Hobby: Resurrection Joined: Posts: 2,841
    Obviously, I don't agree with you.

    You can disagree with me. It just means you're wrong. You stated Gouken and Gen said this sort of thing...and they didn't. So you were wrong. The translation for Akuma is that it is the "weight/burden of the [the targets] sins/inequities/karma" that kills them not "his fist". IE: Don't blame Akuma's attack, blame your own short-comings. If you're weak enough for Akuma to kill you yet you call yourself a warrior, it's your own fault for being a weak ass bitch.
    And again, I don't agree with you.

    And again...that's fine. You're just wrong. The state of Mu IS factually a martial arts and spirit-body balance concept. I even cited a couple examples. Fucking Google it. It doesn't have to do with Buddhist...it is a part of Zen Buddhism. Further more, Mu No Ken IS a martial arts concept that is pretty damn old. Again, fucking Google it. There's a reason it pops up repeatedly in martial arts works like Hokuto No Ken, Street Fighter and Tenjo Tenge. I gave examples and explanations to back up what I said...where's yours?
    And the bit about "emptying your soul" being mistranslated, mistranslated accordin' to whom?

    Anyone that knows fucking Japanese. They achieve a state of Mu. This is backed up by ALL recent revelations in SF4 as well where we factually see Mu in action and it has NOTHING to do with hell or the soul...it's a Ki state. You're just parroting what you read what time in the plot guide. Have YOU translated the original shit? I have copies of the All About Series and such...do you? Or are you just repeating what someone told you one time?
    Makes sense to me, seein' as how WAY less powerful victims have survived the attack and the concept of Mu wasn't even in the picture back then. I'm gonna choose what the game actually said over what you think they mean, every day of the week. Your thoughts are interestin' but I don't actually agree with them,

    That's because you aren't actually thinking about stuff. You're just regurgitating shit that's been said for years that's always bee wrong. I mean, shit, in SF4...Gouken defends himself with Mu against fucking RYU...how the fuck would a technique that "empties ones soul" protect from a fucking hadoken? Easy answer...it wouldn't.
    I don't need "current" proof when I've seen Akuma clearly use the attack to defeat both characters in the past. Again, I'm gonna go by what actually happens in the game over fan explanations that attempt to disprove what I just saw in the game.

    Holy shit you're right! Just like how we SAW E Honda blow up the Psycho Drive! FUCKING CANON YO! Jesus Christ...

    No one elses endings EVER reference Bison being SGS'd in SF2...and NO ONE in SF4 ever refers to it....including Bison and Akuma themselves. Yeah seems real likely THAT shit happened right? Get the fuck off it.
    Oh Idk, maybe Akuma uses a move where HE HIMSELF makes hell for the user's soul. We got guys that grow six wings and resurrect form the dead, others who soul and mind generate weird purple flames, chicks who can see the future, a dude who spits fire and teleports, and ancient old dudes who can throw out spirit bombs. Let's not mention that Akuma himself has split Ayers Rock with a punch. Him usin' a move where his soul interacts with the users to make'em reap what they've sown isn't a stretch by a long shot.

    Akuma has done high level martial arts stuff...therefore Akuma can create pocket dimensions and teleport people there using his black magic because he's a 19th level Wizard. Good god, are you reading the shit you write or just mashing your face against the fucking keyboard? See how you have to keep making shit up? First Akuma takes people to Hell...now Akuma MAKES hell. What next?
    Now, if any of these events have been completely retconned by SFIV, then I wouldn't know about that since I stopped carin' about SF's plot with that game's introduction. SF just got stupid at that point. I moved on to much more interestin' Capcom fightin' game plots like Darkstalkers and Rival Schools.

    So in other words you're going into an discussion armed only with out of date, mistranslated, potentially retconned or unexplained information. Nice job, bro. Doesn't make your argument look half-assed at all. Not one little bit.

    This is the sort of damage bullshit in the plot guide has done. It's made people utterly sure of shit they've never really even seen with their own eyes but just heard a million damn times from a bunch of people all repeating stuff that was never right in the first place.
    angelpalm wrote: »
    Lol Why would non christians give a fuck about heaven and hell?

    Why would a karate move teleport you anywhere in the first place let alone hell. Niggas is dumb ass shit...

    Blunt...but well said.
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  • FengShuiEnergyFengShuiEnergy ARIA is the only answer Joined: Posts: 10,762
    It seem to be something like Devil's man's devil beam from DB. If that's the case...sounds quite lame.
  • YagamiFireYagamiFire Hobby: Resurrection Joined: Posts: 2,841
    It seem to be something like Devil's man's devil beam from DB. If that's the case...sounds quite lame.

    Yes. That would be BEYOND asanine. I mean, hell, it doesn't even make sense in regards to Gill since Gill isn't really evil.
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  • FengShuiEnergyFengShuiEnergy ARIA is the only answer Joined: Posts: 10,762
    YagamiFire wrote: »
    It seem to be something like Devil's man's devil beam from DB. If that's the case...sounds quite lame.

    Yes. That would be BEYOND asanine. I mean, hell, it doesn't even make sense in regards to Gill since Gill isn't really evil.

    Not necessarily evil. Just bad intentions. Like for example devil man's devil beam would work on SSJ goku despite not being evil. His "evil intentions" however would end him..ie (being ruthless losing that caring nature) you know what I mean?
  • ShockdingoShockdingo Freelance voice actor & Reploid.PHD in Q speculation. Joined: Posts: 1,554
    I don't think there's a moral component to the move at all, just fancy talk from a mad warrior. Do the SGS to a puppy? Unless it somehow knows martial arts and how to block it....dead. A baby? Dead. Willy Lowman from Death of a Salesman? Dead. Afterall, NuGouken AND Gen blocked it. One's a righteous mentor and father figure, the other is an assassin with loads of blood on his hands...which one has canonically "died" due to the move? Not the assassin.
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  • Keepin'em HonestKeepin'em Honest Da Last Real N*gga Left Joined: Posts: 763
    edited November 2013
    YagamiFire wrote: »
    snip


    1. You said in the OP, "Please keep in mind this stuff is all my interpretation and opinion", so now that I'm disagreein' with you I'm "wrong". Are fuckin' foolin' me bro?!

    2. Doesn't matter who the fuck said the more you sin the harder you die, it only matters that IT WAS ACTUALLY SAID IN THE GAME. I don't give a fuck what YOU think it means. It is what was said about the move in the game I played. You can try to attach that shit to your own philosophies but your shit aint facts.

    There are endings that refute E.Honda's. Everyone can't beat Bison, just use some common sense when you wanna decide what's canon and what's not. Capcom has never actually confirmed most people's endings or story events which I don't understand why people get so upset and bent up over SF's plot. You folks care more about this shit than they do.

    3. My example is, MU WAS NOT FUCKIN' MENTIONED IN SFA3. You're tryin' to attach a real martial arts (and also plausible, I will admit) concept to a dude who fuckin' splits mountains and blows up islands. IN THE GAME it was stated that the move fucks over evil people worse. I'm not gonna ignore what the game ACTUALLY said cuz what you say makes more sense. You're not gonna get me to do that. A whole bunch of supernatural shit goes on in SF for no reason, not gonna assume the SGS is any more than what it was stated to be.

    4. You are actually thinkin' about shit way too much. You remind me of people who try to make sense outta or philosophise the Tim and Eric Show. Gouken was stated to use Mu, okay, Gouken used Mu to survive and came back years later. Gen immediately defended against the SGS. Bison uses body hops, Gill resurrects and I'm sure Oro could probably avoid it too, there is obviously more than one way to get around it. Everyone doesn't have to use Mu. Case solved.

    5. Bison get's SGSed in SF2. YOU CAN FUCKIN' SEE IT. Akuma slides up on him and he dies, in the game. Then you fight Akuma, instead. Almost nothin' in SFII is referenced or referred to in SFIV. Hell, SFIV does very little to reference any other SF outside of itself. They don't even say who won the SFII tournament.

    6.Can you read? I never said Akuma sends people to Hell, infact, I SAID THE EXACT OPPOSITE. My exact words...

    "I never believed the whole demons mobbin' you in Hell bullshit, but I do think the move is way more supernatural than just ultra fast strikes. (paraphrasing) I do think it is some spiritual shit, tho."
    You can believe in spirit and soul without believin' in religions. Many atheist and agnostics believe people have souls. Spirit is not a synonym for afterlife, despite stupid and popular belief.

    Now sit and fuckin' spin, bro. Capcom has never said what the move actually is, only that you will pay for your sins when he does it, so I'm not gonna make some shit up and force it down people's throats. I'll know the true explanation of the SGS when Capcom says it and that's if I still even care enough to know. Til' then, if Capcom doesn't give a damn, neither do I.

    My case is rested.
    Post edited by Keepin'em Honest on

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  • Smashbro29Smashbro29 Waiting for the new Framemeister... Joined: Posts: 7,183
    Akuma's super? He just fucks you up, why does it have to be analyzed? Besides, they'll never tell that's the whole appeal of the move.
  • Keepin'em HonestKeepin'em Honest Da Last Real N*gga Left Joined: Posts: 763
    edited November 2013
    Smashbro29 wrote: »
    Akuma's super? He just fucks you up, why does it have to be analyzed? Besides, they'll never tell that's the whole appeal of the move.

    Honestly, that's pretty much what it is.
    Post edited by Keepin'em Honest on

    Wonder why I'm even wasting my time
    Even replying to letcha know I don't feel you
    Fuck 'em!

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  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 5,631
    In UMK3 Scorpion has the Shun Goku Satsu as a fatality...

  • SkeletrollSkeletroll Banned Joined: Posts: 1,267
    I always thought it was a last minute idea to give Akuma a hidden super in A1 but due to time/costs/laziness they gave it no animation and slapped together his throw and teleport animations. Didn't think it needed it's own lore.
  • b64b64 Joined: Posts: 21
    Shockdingo wrote: »
    I don't think there's a moral component to the move at all, just fancy talk from a mad warrior. Do the SGS to a puppy? Unless it somehow knows martial arts and how to block it....dead. A baby? Dead. Willy Lowman from Death of a Salesman? Dead. Afterall, NuGouken AND Gen blocked it. One's a righteous mentor and father figure, the other is an assassin with loads of blood on his hands...which one has canonically "died" due to the move? Not the assassin.
    That's a very good response. It should be clear that being good or evil doesn't increase or lower your chances of surviving the SGS.
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  • FengShuiEnergyFengShuiEnergy ARIA is the only answer Joined: Posts: 10,762
    edited November 2013
    SGS it no more different then countering another move. It may just be more difficult to counter then other moves. This whole time many have hyped it up so much...now I can clearly see it's not really that much of a wicked move. Plus add in the fact that Akuma has only SGS successfully (coming back from the dead doesn't count since they cheated the SGS)...actually what character did Akuma succeed with the SGS? I can't recall any. Bison cheated it, Gen canceled it, and Gouken reversed it?....this mighty powerful move seems so unsuccessful from a powerful warrior. I think Akuma should look into another move.
  • b64b64 Joined: Posts: 21
    SGS it no more different then countering another move. It may just be more difficult to counter then other moves. This whole time many have hyped it up so much...now I can clearly see it's not really that much of a wicked move. Plus add in the fact that Akuma has only SGS successfully (coming back from the dead doesn't count since they cheated the SGS)...actually what character did Akuma succeed with the SGS? I can't recall any. Bison cheated it, Gen canceled it, and Gouken reversed it?....this mighty powerful move seems so unsuccessful from a powerful warrior. I think Akuma should look into another move.
    Goutetsu didn't survive actually. It's also stated that Akuma killed many warriors, so I guess he used SGS in some of those fights.
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  • FengShuiEnergyFengShuiEnergy ARIA is the only answer Joined: Posts: 10,762
    Oh yeah I forgot about Goutetsu. "Guess" Well according to things I've read Akuma only really uses the SGS on "worthy" opponents. Even then The whole thing surrounding SGS makes it sound so lame. I never liked the SGS to begin with and with Yag's good explanation of it just sounds so...bleh.
  • StrudeliciousStrudelicious Joined: Posts: 80
    Just a little.. note. Hell as a concept isn't restricted to Hell in the Christian sense. Hell is defined in other religions such as 2 forms of buddhism, hinduism, TONS of animist faiths... etc. etc. Reading this thread is my own personal hell < another "hell". I dunno, just 2 pennies thrown in this conversational well.
  • Last DragonLast Dragon Joined: Posts: 134
    YagamiFire wrote: »
    snip


    1. You said in the OP, "Please keep in mind this stuff is all my interpretation and opinion", so now that I'm disagreein' with you I'm "wrong". Are fuckin' foolin' me bro?!

    2. Doesn't matter who the fuck said the more you sin the harder you die, it only matters that IT WAS ACTUALLY SAID IN THE GAME. I don't give a fuck what YOU think it means. It is what was said about the move in the game I played. You can try to attach that shit to your own philosophies but your shit aint facts.

    There are endings that refute E.Honda's. Everyone can't beat Bison, just use some common sense when you wanna decide what's canon and what's not. Capcom has never actually confirmed most people's endings or story events which I don't understand why people get so upset and bent up over SF's plot. You folks care more about this shit than they do.

    3. My example is, MU WAS NOT FUCKIN' MENTIONED IN SFA3. You're tryin' to attach a real martial arts (and also plausible, I will admit) concept to a dude who fuckin' splits mountains and blows up islands. IN THE GAME it was stated that the move fucks over evil people worse. I'm not gonna ignore what the game ACTUALLY said cuz what you say makes more sense. You're not gonna get me to do that. A whole bunch of supernatural shit goes on in SF for no reason, not gonna assume the SGS is any more than what it was stated to be.

    4. You are actually thinkin' about shit way too much. You remind me of people who try to make sense outta or philosophise the Tim and Eric Show. Gouken was stated to use Mu, okay, Gouken used Mu to survive and came back years later. Gen immediately defended against the SGS. Bison uses body hops, Gill resurrects and I'm sure Oro could probably avoid it too, there is obviously more than one way to get around it. Everyone doesn't have to use Mu. Case solved.

    5. Bison get's SGSed in SF2. YOU CAN FUCKIN' SEE IT. Akuma slides up on him and he dies, in the game. Then you fight Akuma, instead. Almost nothin' in SFII is referenced or referred to in SFIV. Hell, SFIV does very little to reference any other SF outside of itself. They don't even say who won the SFII tournament.

    6.Can you read? I never said Akuma sends people to Hell, infact, I SAID THE EXACT OPPOSITE. My exact words...

    "I never believed the whole demons mobbin' you in Hell bullshit, but I do think the move is way more supernatural than just ultra fast strikes. (paraphrasing) I do think it is some spiritual shit, tho."
    You can believe in spirit and soul without believin' in religions. Many atheist and agnostics believe people have souls. Spirit is not a synonym for afterlife, despite stupid and popular belief.

    Now sit and fuckin' spin, bro. Capcom has never said what the move actually is, only that you will pay for your sins when he does it, so I'm not gonna make some shit up and force it down people's throats. I'll know the true explanation of the SGS when Capcom says it and that's if I still even care enough to know. Til' then, if Capcom doesn't give a damn, neither do I.

    My case is rested.

    I agree. This is what it comes down to, really. Capcom says the plot or some sort of bg info goes from A to B and now you have people trying to explain what happened in between. Nobody really knows so anything anyone spouts off is just opinion until proven with facts produced by Capcom. It seems all SF games fail to make sufficient reference to the plot of the games before it so you're left trying to piece together the plots as best you can on your own. I have read before that Capcom cares so little that devs actually think that every game is in its own universe but then if you dig deep enough, there are certain little sections in the SF:EC that specifically tie the plots form each game together, albeit, in subtle ways.

    I also remember Seth saying that Evil Ryu and Oni were actually canon and that some of the devs really wanted to flesh the story of those guys out, but there wasn't enough time. But for people who actually pay attention to the plot, this was kind of a crazy thing to introduce and then say it is canon without explaining how. Again, just another example of how little they care, for God sake, they included SFIII characters and failed to given even a hint at SFIII's oncoming plot. I mean they didn't have to, but really? Who does that.

    Also to note, I too think that Darkstalkers lore, specifically, is really crazy. I bought an art book with an encyclopedia in it some time ago, and there was some wild information in there. I don't like how that series ended on a cliff hanger.
  • YagamiFireYagamiFire Hobby: Resurrection Joined: Posts: 2,841
    1. You said in the OP, "Please keep in mind this stuff is all my interpretation and opinion", so now that I'm disagreein' with you I'm "wrong". Are fuckin' foolin' me bro?!

    You're wrong because you aren't actually offering any information. You're just ranting and reiterating stuff that has already been refuted through newer games (which you had admitted you are ignorant of) and better translations (of which you are apparently ignorant of the source material). Also the OP was written over two years ago...I'm pretty sure of this shit by now.
    2. Doesn't matter who the fuck said the more you sin the harder you die, it only matters that IT WAS ACTUALLY SAID IN THE GAME. I don't give a fuck what YOU think it means. It is what was said about the move in the game I played. You can try to attach that shit to your own philosophies but your shit aint facts.

    Find the quote. Go find the source of the quote if you're so sure that's what got said. Because it's not in the fucking game like you are insisting it is. It NEVER says "the more you sin the harder you die". I have already put what the quote is several times. I have factually put what the quote is. You are making up a quote/pulling one from your ass/using an incorrect one THEN applying meaning to it. How the hell could that be correct? "The game you played?" The fuck you talking about? Bring some proof, son.
    There are endings that refute E.Honda's. Everyone can't beat Bison, just use some common sense when you wanna decide what's canon and what's not. Capcom has never actually confirmed most people's endings or story events which I don't understand why people get so upset and bent up over SF's plot. You folks care more about this shit than they do.

    Yeah except many times in the guide books they DO confirm events.
    3. My example is, MU WAS NOT FUCKIN' MENTIONED IN SFA3. You're tryin' to attach a real martial arts (and also plausible, I will admit) concept to a dude who fuckin' splits mountains and blows up islands. IN THE GAME it was stated that the move fucks over evil people worse. I'm not gonna ignore what the game ACTUALLY said cuz what you say makes more sense. You're not gonna get me to do that. A whole bunch of supernatural shit goes on in SF for no reason, not gonna assume the SGS is any more than what it was stated to be.

    First, the move was not stated to fuck over evil people worse. That is pulled from your ass (again, waiting for the proof). Second of all this (MU WAS NOT FUCKIN' MENTIONED IN SFA3) is too fucking funny.

    "Onore wo mu ni suru"

    MU

    The reason why Gen survived the Raging Demon...from Capcom's own SFA3 supplementary materials.

    In other words: Shut up. Go home. You don't know what you're talking about.
    4. You are actually thinkin' about shit way too much. You remind me of people who try to make sense outta or philosophise the Tim and Eric Show. Gouken was stated to use Mu, okay, Gouken used Mu to survive and came back years later. Gen immediately defended against the SGS. Bison uses body hops, Gill resurrects and I'm sure Oro could probably avoid it too, there is obviously more than one way to get around it. Everyone doesn't have to use Mu. Case solved.

    And you don't think about this shit at all, so what are you doing here? The material states Gen used Mu. Fact. The only people to EVER canonically get hit by the SGS and live are Gen and Gouken. Both used Mu. Nothing current or corroborated points to anyone else (Bison & Gill included) getting hit with the SGS.
    5. Bison get's SGSed in SF2. YOU CAN FUCKIN' SEE IT. Akuma slides up on him and he dies, in the game. Then you fight Akuma, instead. Almost nothin' in SFII is referenced or referred to in SFIV. Hell, SFIV does very little to reference any other SF outside of itself. They don't even say who won the SFII tournament.

    Oh he dies? Looks knocked out to me. And just because you saw it in the game doesn't make it a canon event. Akuma was a hidden boss. An easter egg. He had no canon story place in the game at the time of his inclusion.
    6.Can you read? I never said Akuma sends people to Hell, infact, I SAID THE EXACT OPPOSITE. My exact words...

    "I never believed the whole demons mobbin' you in Hell bullshit, but I do think the move is way more supernatural than just ultra fast strikes. (paraphrasing) I do think it is some spiritual shit, tho."
    You can believe in spirit and soul without believin' in religions. Many atheist and agnostics believe people have souls. Spirit is not a synonym for afterlife, despite stupid and popular belief.

    You can believe something all you want...do you have anything canonical to support it?
    Now sit and fuckin' spin, bro. Capcom has never said what the move actually is, only that you will pay for your sins when he does it, so I'm not gonna make some shit up and force it down people's throats. I'll know the true explanation of the SGS when Capcom says it and that's if I still even care enough to know. Til' then, if Capcom doesn't give a damn, neither do I.

    My case is rested.

    For someone that "doesn't give a damn" you're writing fucking paragraphs, man. You're wrong. What you're referencing is wrong. Facts you're using don't exist or are incomplete.

    Capcom HAS already said what the move is...Akuma says it himself. "One moment, 1000 strikes". That is what the SGS is. Stated IN GAME.
    "Punks jump up to get beat down"

    I designed SFV Ed. Your argument is invalid.

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  • FengShuiEnergyFengShuiEnergy ARIA is the only answer Joined: Posts: 10,762
    Now whether or not he speaks metaphorically...dunno. I'm putting my money on metaphor. Game-wise if it really was 1000 strikes Capcom could have done the 1000 hit combo cap easily just solely for that move...could of...
  • YagamiFireYagamiFire Hobby: Resurrection Joined: Posts: 2,841
    Now whether or not he speaks metaphorically...dunno. I'm putting my money on metaphor. Game-wise if it really was 1000 strikes Capcom could have done the 1000 hit combo cap easily just solely for that move...could of...

    Yeah. Kinda hard to know if it's literally 1000 strikes. I suppose it's possible. I think the SGS was originally created in a time when 15 hits was already pretty damn high...and 1000 for a combo would have just looked like parody. Hmm.

    "Punks jump up to get beat down"

    I designed SFV Ed. Your argument is invalid.

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  • FengShuiEnergyFengShuiEnergy ARIA is the only answer Joined: Posts: 10,762
    Well I figured it would be like an easter egg. Either that or those 15 strikes felt like 1000...dunno.
  • StrudeliciousStrudelicious Joined: Posts: 80
    edited November 2013
    Asian cultures are well known for speaking in idiomatically. In order to say there were a lot of people in Chinese we say "人山人海" which translates directly to People-mountains-people-oceans. Pretty much saying that there was a sea, a mountain, a whole visible landscape entirely filled with people. This phrase has been used to describe a subway station during holiday seasons.

    There wasn't a time when 15 was a high number unless you go back to practically prehistoric times in Asia. The metric/base 10 counting system is built into our language far more deeply than even latin root languages. I applaud your efforts, but you can't approach this too scientifically. It could be an idiom, it could be lazy designers, it could be simple psychology and game design. If I got a 50 hit combo using akuma I'd be psyched, if I got a 1015 hit combo with akuma I wouldn't be as psyched because a majority of that counter was raised through a gimmick despite the former number being the same.

    Also, although his source material isn't as complete as you, I personally think that the root of his argument is PLAUSIBLE. There very well COULD be a supernatural element to SGS. Maybe not with something cosmically significant like heaven or hell, but certainly something that's non corporeal. Remember that this was a game first, a game that was really really shitty (used pneumatic buttons for Christ's sake). Canon is something that is so difficult to establish. Logic is something that is impractical to use. I would prefer this stay in the realm of conjecture and not attempt to establish ultimate truth. This way this thread can stay alive as alternative theories, and provide endless sources of entertainment as well as multiple possibilities for the thousands of viewers on this board to ruminate over; rather than your personal journal into your hypothesis of the mechanics of SGS.
  • Keepin'em HonestKeepin'em Honest Da Last Real N*gga Left Joined: Posts: 763
    edited November 2013
    YagamiFire wrote: »

    You're wrong because you aren't actually offering any information. You're just ranting and reiterating stuff that has already been refuted through newer games (which you had admitted you are ignorant of) and better translations (of which you are apparently ignorant of the source material). Also the OP was written over two years ago...I'm pretty sure of this shit by now.

    Find the quote. Go find the source of the quote if you're so sure that's what got said. Because it's not in the fucking game like you are insisting it is. It NEVER says "the more you sin the harder you die". I have already put what the quote is several times. I have factually put what the quote is. You are making up a quote/pulling one from your ass/using an incorrect one THEN applying meaning to it. How the hell could that be correct? "The game you played?" The fuck you talking about? Bring some proof, son.

    Yeah except many times in the guide books they DO confirm events.

    First, the move was not stated to fuck over evil people worse. That is pulled from your ass (again, waiting for the proof). Second of all this (MU WAS NOT FUCKIN' MENTIONED IN SFA3) is too fucking funny.

    "Onore wo mu ni suru"

    MU

    The reason why Gen survived the Raging Demon...from Capcom's own SFA3 supplementary materials.

    In other words: Shut up. Go home. You don't know what you're talking about.

    And you don't think about this shit at all, so what are you doing here? The material states Gen used Mu. Fact. The only people to EVER canonically get hit by the SGS and live are Gen and Gouken. Both used Mu. Nothing current or corroborated points to anyone else (Bison & Gill included) getting hit with the SGS.
    5. Bison get's SGSed in SF2. YOU CAN FUCKIN' SEE IT. Akuma slides up on him and he dies, in the game. Then you fight Akuma, instead. Almost nothin' in SFII is referenced or referred to in SFIV. Hell, SFIV does very little to reference any other SF outside of itself. They don't even say who won the SFII tournament.

    Oh he dies? Looks knocked out to me. And just because you saw it in the game doesn't make it a canon event. Akuma was a hidden boss. An easter egg. He had no canon story place in the game at the time of his inclusion.



    For someone that "doesn't give a damn" you're writing fucking paragraphs, man. You're wrong. What you're referencing is wrong. Facts you're using don't exist or are incomplete.

    Capcom HAS already said what the move is...Akuma says it himself. "One moment, 1000 strikes". That is what the SGS is. Stated IN GAME.

    1. So then you do have low readin' comprehension. I NEVER said that my view was a fact, and I'm sayin' that your's aint fact either. You're just as "wrong" as I am. lol

    2. This is hilarious...


    AKUMA:
    "The more evil your past doings, the more painful your death."
    Where are you gettin' your shit from, cuz it damn sure aint the games?

    3. The SF guide books confirm very few events that actually occur at the end of the games.

    4. Are you a retarded? "Onore wo mu ni suru" means to "empty your spirit/self" which is what the fuck I said Gen did to survive. I meant SFA isn't talkin' about Mu in this super ridiculous philosophical way you're tryin' to force people into. It is as it was said, deal with it.

    5. Gen emptied his soul, that's all I'm sayin' and that's all I've been sayin', call it whatever the fuck you want. And Bison is seen bein' hit with the SGS in the game. It happens in the game, as clear as day. YOU have to prove that it didn't happen. I don't have prove that it did...since it did.

    You are are correct about Gill, tho. Akuma jumps and and kills your rival, not Gill. I was wrong about that one.

    6. Don't try to argue semantics, that's pathetic. Akuma jumps in and hits Bison with the SGS. What evidence do you have that Akuma wasn't canon?! Hell, what evidence do you have that characters like DJay, T.Hawk, E.Honda and Fei Long ARE canon?! SF's canon is a fuckin' mess. lol

    7. Not gonna get in a pissin' contest with you about who cares more or less about this shit. I just know I aint tryin to force my opinion on others so that I can feel important.

    8. Akuma also says alotta other shit like, "your sins will kill you, not his fists", "witness the death of your soul", "If you are merciless, your soul will be slaughtered!", "It's time for you to experience a million deaths in an instant!", and "And now, evil one, you reap what you have sown!".

    Just cuz you like your idea best, doesn't make it fact. Come back here when you have REAL PROOF, from Capcom. Til' then, hush.

    Wonder why I'm even wasting my time
    Even replying to letcha know I don't feel you
    Fuck 'em!

    -TI-
  • Last DragonLast Dragon Joined: Posts: 134
    What's funny is, none of the explanations posted in the op actually come from Capcom. This is akin to trying to explain some of Final Fantasy VII's mysteries by using the real story of Bahamut and the real story Sephiroth to tie up loose ends. Or trying to explain plot holes in Naruto by applying real world ninja beliefs that are loosely mentioned or used with a great deal of liberty and then passing it off as fact. You simply can't do that. It's cool, but you can't rage when people point this.
  • Keepin'em HonestKeepin'em Honest Da Last Real N*gga Left Joined: Posts: 763
    edited November 2013

    Also, although his source material isn't as complete as you, I personally think that the root of his argument is PLAUSIBLE. There very well COULD be a supernatural element to SGS. Maybe not with something cosmically significant like heaven or hell, but certainly something that's non corporeal. Remember that this was a game first, a game that was really really shitty (used pneumatic buttons for Christ's sake). Canon is something that is so difficult to establish. Logic is something that is impractical to use. I would prefer this stay in the realm of conjecture and not attempt to establish ultimate truth. This way this thread can stay alive as alternative theories, and provide endless sources of entertainment as well as multiple possibilities for the thousands of viewers on this board to ruminate over; rather than your personal journal into your hypothesis of the mechanics of SGS.

    QFT

    I'm not sayin' what exactly happens durin' the move as a fact, I just offered up an opinion based upon what's been said in the games. There is enough room in what has been said to believe that somethin' besides "Akuma hittin' you really fast" is goin' on durin' the attack. There is enough room for people to have different opinions about this subject. I actually don't think Akuma is draggin' anybody to Hell, I've said this at least 3 times already, but a spiritual assault is very possible considerin' their is a heavy focus on soul/spiritual powers in these games. They are video games and they contain plots and information that Capcom has left wide open for interpretation.

    Idk why this is so hard for him to understand.
    What's funny is, none of the explanations posted in the op actually come from Capcom. This is akin to trying to explain some of Final Fantasy VII's mysteries by using the real story of Bahamut and the real story Sephiroth to tie up loose ends. Or trying to explain plot holes in Naruto by applying real world ninja beliefs that are loosely mentioned or used with a great deal of liberty and then passing it off as fact. You simply can't do that. It's cool, but you can't rage when people point this.

    Exactly, it's like trynna use ancient Chinese chi beliefs to explain why Goku can use the Kamehameha Wave...And then gettin' mad at people for usin' other tidbits of info within DB to form a different opinion. It's ridiculous. I'm only gonna go buy what is in the games, Word of God, and source books. If other folks choose to do other shit, that's fine, I don'cur.

    Wonder why I'm even wasting my time
    Even replying to letcha know I don't feel you
    Fuck 'em!

    -TI-
  • Jion_WansuJion_Wansu Joined: Posts: 5,631
    I actually don't think Akuma is draggin' anybody to Hell, I've said this at least 3 times already, but a spiritual assault is very possible considerin' their is a heavy focus on soul/spiritual powers in these games. They are video games and they contain plots and information that Capcom has left wide open for interpretation.

    Is that where Ed Boon got the idea for Scorpion's 2nd fatality?
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