[KOF XIII] Vice

Dr. Grammar

KOF XIII Hyper Guide - Vice
"KOF XIII Technical Reference" chapter 8 ~Yagami Team~
KOF XIII IORI TEAM COMBO MOVIE

Vice is back from the dead for this edition of KOF with no fewer than 4 command grabs. She is also one of few characters gifted with an 'anywhere juggle' move, hers being the only one which enables full combos from simple anti-airs and other knockdowns.

Changes from arcade to console:
KOFXIII Character Changes part 3

• (shown in video) Strong version of Mayhem (qcb+C) has less recovery. If you hit with the edge of it you can do a strong attack as a followup.
• (shown in video) Added a new target combo D > D. It is not cancelable.
• Jump CD is faster.
• (shown in video) EX Mayhem (qcb+AC) has faster startup.
• (shown in video) Strong version of Deicide (hcf+D) can be comboed into the Strong version of Mayhem (qcb+C).
• EX Deicide (hcf+BD) has less recovery, and it is easier to follow up with normal attacks.
• (shown in video) Splash (including the followup version) (dp+P / qcb+P > qcf+P) can be super canceled into Overkill (db qcf uf u d+P) AFTER it hits.
• (shown in video) Overkill (air db qcf uf u d+P) can be MAX Canceled.
• Overkill’s command (air db qcf uf u d +P) has been made easier. If the last input is in any downward direction it will register.
• Damage adjustments:
  • Her f+A (canceled into) does 45 damage (down from 70)
  • Her Overkill (air db qcf uf u d+P) does 200 damage (down from 220)
  • Her EX Mayhem (qcb+AC) does 120 damage (down from 160)

Reiki.Kito

Vice is definitely going to be a strong contender in Console version now with some of her additions. I'm really excited for her.

Dr. Grammar

I added the (translated) official change notes to the first post. It seems to me like these are just minor tweaks and she's still going to play mostly the same.

meiji_99

another Vice change
- Mayhem (DC) to EX Mayhem now will connect :D.

Reiki.Kito

http://youtube.com/watch?v=SeQ0WcfU_uc

Tutorial by Cristina during the 23rd ON Show about Vice. Saw it and thought it'd be important to post here.

roknin

There are too many characters in this game I want to use. I'd almost forgotten about Vice <3... shame on me.

Also, I've not heard of this show - I'll need to catch up on it. :)

Minerva_SC

I'm loving vice so far. I've been able to do all her trial other than 1 and 3. hahaha, crouching shorts into HSF/B is apparently my weakness.

girlystyle

just started using vice today, finding her a ton of fun.

KingTygerVII

I prefer Mature if i had to pick one of the two, but vice is faster, and that means scary hahaha, but great info! thanks

Tizoc

Is there an easier way to input her air grab super? The command is friggin' annoying.

Dr. Grammar

Tizoc, post: 6184049, member: 4439 wrote:

Is there an easier way to input her air grab super? The command is friggin' annoying.

It's fairly easy if you start doing the motion from the ground, since the jump is built into the command.

Tizoc

Would a rotation of:
HCF, UF, U, UB, B, DB, Dwn work then?

Dr. Grammar

Tizoc, post: 6184281, member: 4439 wrote:

Would a rotation of:
HCF, UF, U, UB, B, DB, Dwn work then?

Yeah, it would.

BiGGDaddyCane

Tizoc, post: 6184281, member: 4439 wrote:

Would a rotation of:
HCF, UF, U, UB, B, DB, Dwn work then?

Yea that works, and just practice it. You"ll get it down smoothly after awhile. The timing is easier/ less stricter then her 2k2 version IMO, were you need to be precise with ever notation.

And you can just be lazy on the down input since

Overkill’s command (air db qcf uf u d +P) has been made easier. If the last input is in any downward direction it will register.

Tizoc

Alright thanks, will try it out next time

Minerva_SC

anyone know if there are any non combo vids of console Vice out there? Apparently no one plays her...

I pretty much just tiger knee with a down thrown on on the end for overkill, hell, you could just do a full 360 in the air starting from up/back and end with the down motion and it would still work.

NissanZaxima

Minerva_SC, post: 6163810, member: 8020 wrote:

I'm loving vice so far. I've been able to do all her trial other than 1 and 3. hahaha, crouching shorts into HSF/B is apparently my weakness.

For trial 3 buffer the 2x QCB motion into it... so it looks like this.

, , +

It makes it so its a nice smoother motion and so you dont have to go balls to the wall fast. It feels weird buffering that 3rd lk into the QCB motion at first but you will get use to it... then the secon QCB+LkHk is a piece of cake.

NissanZaxima

So could anyone give general strats and tips for Vice who has played this game for a little bit? I understand that a lot of her offense is based off of her command grab and the setups that ensue after you land it. Anything else about her offensive game that I should really know about? I have read her Godlike guide made by the people here (thanks again guys... so much) but just checking to see what other things fellow Vice players do.

Laban

NissanZaxima, post: 6197951, member: 24360 wrote:

So could anyone give general strats and tips for Vice who has played this game for a little bit? I understand that a lot of her offense is based off of her command grab and the setups that ensue after you land it. Anything else about her offensive game that I should really know about? I have read her Godlike guide made by the people here (thanks again guys... so much) but just checking to see what other things fellow Vice players do.

For me, I play her 98 style to a degree. Although Vice has a better hop arc now and her j.C is pretty good for jumping in with, she's still just as susceptible to good anti-air normals. So rather than trying to force my way in to get a jump-in, high/low mix up or command throw mix-up, I use her hcf+K as a footsie tool. Unless the opponent has a projectile of a sorts or some really long ranged move that could poke her outside that range (i.e. Billy), that hcf+K will win. The move is designed in this fashion, notice that recovery on block is really really short so you could kind of abuse it. Of course the obvious counter against it would be then to hop at Vice, over her hcf+K, which is what Vice is trying to coax. Then Vice could use one of her many anti-air attacks and punish the opponent (st.A, st.D, cr.C, Far C, etc.) as well as air-to-air (j.CD, j.D, j.B, air throw super). So it becomes a "footsie" and spacing game between her hcf+K and waiting for the opponent to respond to it with a jump/hop and punishing them. If the opponent messes up and actually is hit by hcf+K, Vice goes into her follow ups and actually lands close to the opponent to start her offensive mix-ups (especially with hcf+B into hcbf+P since the frame advantage on oki is huge.) From there on oki, it's about mixing up safe-hops, lows, and command throws. Since Vice can chain and cancel her cr.B into a knockdown, the opponent will have to second guess when exactly to alternate guard or else they'll be hit by a cr.B xx qcb+A xx qcf+A. If they don't alternate guard at the right moment, they could be hit by a command throw into another safe-hop or ambiguous roll mix-up.

So before going in unless the opponent is simply trash, you have to play a strong neutral game with her hcf+K and all of her anti-air and air-to-air options. Once you score the appropriate knockdown, then you could go nuts. Landing a j.CD pretty much scores Vice her offensive game since it's pretty easy to land as an air-to-air with the correct set up and the soft knockdown allows vice to run in on time to get close even if the opponent can tech roll.

NissanZaxima

Laban, post: 6198906, member: 18048 wrote:

snip

Awesome! Thanks so much that is very helpful.

I was wondering if you could inform me what are some of Vice's worst matchups? First thing I like doing when I learn a character is dissecting the bad matchups. So what are some of them I should look out for?

Laban

NissanZaxima, post: 6199200, member: 24360 wrote:

Awesome! Thanks so much that is very helpful.

I was wondering if you could inform me what are some of Vice's worst matchups? First thing I like doing when I learn a character is dissecting the bad matchups. So what are some of them I should look out for?

For me, I don't think KOF is too much of a match up game by characters. Match ups are mainly by specific tools and I'd say back in older games, Vice's problem was people with projectiles and I still think it is to a certain degree. She has a better hop and jump arc that aren't floaty so she isn't as susceptible to AAs going over an opponent but I still feel she'll be zoned out pretty effectively. So I'd say just work around projectiles and work on patience. There is no secret to get around projectiles for free so just work your ground game and slowly make your way in then play in an area where your spacing (normals and specials) come out faster than the start up of your opponent's projectiles. So yeah, play Street Fighter within the context of KOF and KOF subsystems. Sometimes just walking forward and blocking or neutral jumping/hopping works out well. Sometimes rolls are just too risky and certain projectile characters set you up to force you to roll because they'll get a guaranteed punish. One other tip, but it uses a meter, is to guard roll a projectile at the right spacing to mess up their timing and spacing to get an advantage. It doesn't work too well far screen because you could just guard roll back into blocking another projectile. Also, just because you guard roll doesn't mean they can't react to it or anticipate it. The opponent could easily just pay attention to what you're doing and just wait for that guard roll then try to meaty your recovery and you're back in a not so dandy position.

FullMetalRoss

At least now ex shoulder tackle is projectile invincible. And setups her normal game since its a free juggle state just like all the other ones and you can easily link an arm whip after with no drive cancel. Also don't forget that any anti-air as long as they are in range afterwards is a free ex whip... In general Vice with Ex meter is annoying and does tons of damage.

Sensei Rouzu

Anyone have any good videos of this chick?

The Juicebox Abel

http://pastebin.com/UyUAcsjL

My simple Vice combo guide. I want to know if you guys can find anything more efficient/simple. I know higher damage exists on my 3/4/5 bar combos if you do qcb+C after hcf+D during HD, but that's pretty strict timing I wouldn't bother with at a tournament.

Torta

it´s not that strict, just do qcb+C in the recovery of hcb+D (i mean when vice´s animation is recovering) , also doubletapping helps :)

i think it´s not that strict window :)

Sketchspace

The Juicebox Abel, post: 6306650, member: 8153 wrote:

http://pastebin.com/UyUAcsjL

My simple Vice combo guide. I want to know if you guys can find anything more efficient/simple. I know higher damage exists on my 3/4/5 bar combos if you do qcb+C after hcf+D during HD, but that's pretty strict timing I wouldn't bother with at a tournament.

lol I like how you call the followup to tackle "sex".

Here's my main combo with Vice, it uses one drive and one bar minimum and can go up to 3 bars depending on how you end it:

close D, F+A, QCB + C xx QCB + AC, HCF + B, [HCB, F + P or HCB x 2 + K or HCB x 2 + KK]

(It goes from 388 damage for the command grab ender to 575 damage for the EX super grab version.)

or

d+B, d+A, QCB + A xx QCB + AC, HCF + B, [HCB, F + P or HCB x 2 + K or HCB x 2 + KK]

(From 316 damage for the command grab ender to 489 damage for the EX super grab version.)

The only tricky part is hitting the grabs after the sleeve, and for that just do the motion during the sleeve animation. Personally I like ending with the command grab more than the sex since Vice recovers much earlier than the opponent, so that sets up crossups/wakeup tricks.

phoenixnl

Torta, post: 6306961, member: 6330 wrote:

also doubletapping helps :)

It helps, but holding the button helps more. For special/super inputs, holding the button will repeat the input for a couple of frames. It seems like this repetition window is bigger than it used to be (9 frames for specials, 24 for supers)

Check out my article on DC.com: http://dreamcancel.com/2011/10/09/the-king-of-details-3-buffering-tricks-and-motion-shortcuts/

Torta

oh didn´t know, i used it on 2k2um for buffering k´s faggot combo on the corner!
thanks :D

Sketchspace

I've found some better combos than what I've posted (actually it's a mod of one of the mission mode combos):

close D, F+A, QCB + C xx QCB+PP, jumping C+D, HCF + KK, D, F+A, (Tackle, Command Grab, Command Grab Super)

Yeah you can add a Deicide right before the ending grab, but Deicide adds a hit and hurts damage scaling. Does at least 500 damage regardless of the ender for 1 drive and 2 bars minimum.

Hell you can even do this:

Close D, F+A, QCB + PP, hop C+D, HCF+KK, D, F+A, HD Activate into whatevs.

You can even add another loop of EX Tackle, hop C+D, HCF+KK meter permitting.

puppyeater69

Jeez, I really had to dig for this thread. Anyways, can someone please tell me how to setup Vice's crossup j.b, roll mixups and safehops off of gorefest? Really bad and new to kof in general so anything will help really.

Mechanica

Safe jump setups In the corner after command throw:

-whiff close C, hop C
-whiff crouch B, neutral jump C (or A)
-backdash, hop forward C

Crossup B after cmd throw midscreen:
-slight pause, walk forward, normal jump B

Roll setup after cmd throw midscreen:
-slight pause, walk forward roll. If you walk forward just a step or so, it looks like it crosses up but it doesn''t. Walk forward a bit more before the roll and it actually will crossup.

puppyeater69

Mechanica, post: 7517917, member: 3526 wrote:

Safe jump setups In the corner after command throw:

-whiff close C, hop C
-whiff crouch B, neutral jump C (or A)
-backdash, hop forward C

Crossup B after cmd throw midscreen:
-slight pause, walk forward, normal jump B

Roll setup after cmd throw midscreen:
-slight pause, walk forward roll. If you walk forward just a step or so, it looks like it crosses up but it doesn''t. Walk forward a bit more before the roll and it actually will crossup.

Thanks man, at least someone answered after 3 months. My boner for KOF has lessened considerably though. I'll try to add it to my game but tbh, with school and volunteering and shit like that, I don't think i'll have the time.