The Ports

ParryPerson.ParryPerson. It is done.Joined: Posts: 4,011
I'm going to "repost" some information that I cannot find again on the forums, and I was wondering if someone could compare the "classic" version of ST in HDR, using the 4:3 aspect ratio and I can add it to this list... It is safe to assume the best "port" would be the DC version.

We all know the only real way to play ST is Supergun/Arcade, but while the CPS2 boards are getting harder and harder to come by, we might as well have a next best option :).

Game Versions

CPS2 (arcade)
This the original release of Super Turbo.
What follows is a list of ports and differences from the original arcade version.
Dreamcast
The size of the screen is slightly off (it's a little too narrow), making the character sizes appear to be slightly too thin. Only a small amount of testing has been done, but this does not seem to affect the game in anyway as far as range of moves/hit-boxes. EDIT: The screen is not narrow, the character sprites line up on each other at a ratio of 1:1 pixel to pixel. The black border around the screen only makes it seem that way.

The Dreamcast version occasionally suffers from 1 frame of input lag (possibly more if you're using a PSX->DC controller converter), though this is undetectable by most players.

There are a few other differences as well, but all of the tested and known differences can be corrected using the in-game DIP switches. For example, by default on the Dreamcast version, Ken, Dhalsim, and Sagat can do reversal supers (which they can not in the arcade version). This can be corrected in the DIP switch menu.

Playstation 2 (Hyper Street Fighter II Anniversary Edition, only the ST characters will be addressed)
This version has not been thoroughly tested, but the known differences are:
-O.Sagat's Tiger Shots have been toned down considerably
-Ken, Dhalsim, and Sagat can do reversal supers (which they can not in the arcade version)
-Due to an error in porting, Claw's wall dive (ST versions only) must be performed Charge D, K, U (pressing Kick before Up, instead of the normal order)
-if an ST character is facing a non-ST character, the ST character can not tech the throws (in ST, New characters can tech Old characters' throws)
-Holding start when selecting Super Turbo or Super seems to allow access to the original arcade versions of each character.

X-Box (Hyper Street Fighter II Anniversary Edition, only the ST characters will be addressed)

No information is known at this time.
Playstation 1
Known differences in the PS1 version:
-Ken, Dhalsim, and Sagat can do reversal supers (which they can not in the arcade version)
-there is a slight delay between "Round 1, Fight!" and when you can actually move
-Chun Li falls extremely slowly after her medium upkicks (Short and RH are correct, though)
-Guile regains CPS1 chains
-only two buttons are required for three-button moves (ex: Zangief can do a lariat by hitting only Jab Strong or Strong Fierce or Jab Fierce)
-inputs must be done more quickly
-tapping two buttons one right after the other counts as hitting them simultaneously
-when a character has zero life left, it takes two blocked specials to kill him/her
-characters don't seem to get dizzy as easily (speculation, untested)

Sega Saturn
The Saturn version's characters appear to be too big because the screen is stretched. Again, this technically shouldn't change anything in the game, but no thorough testing has been done. One other notable difference is that Guile regained his CPS1 chains. This version is not thoroughly tested, and most likely contains more differences.
Playstation 2 / X-Box: Capcom Classics Collection Volume 2

-The custom code used in this version fixes many inaccuracies found in other common emulators such as MAME and Kawaks.
-This version was emulated from the original arcade ROM's, unlike any other version.
-Some stages are known to cause slowdown or speed changes.
-Sometimes sound effects are known to play at random times, especially the ones for special moves.
-"time warps" where the game will suddenly "jump forward in time" by about 5 to 10 frames.
-There have been many claims of input lag from a large number of arcade players, but no tests were ever completed to verify.
These claims were later verified in the test seen here.

3D0
The most glaring problem with the 3D0 version is that the Old characters are completely missing. It also has lots of missing animation. For example, all of Zangief's ducking punches are the same animation in the 3D0 version.
Other known differences :
- All characters get CPS1 chains
- Gouki/Akuma's Red Fireball has lesser recovery and can throw another fireball again at the 2nd hit !
PC
The PC version contained such colossal bugs as entire moves being inexplicably missing, and the game randomly crashing for no apparent reason.
Game Boy Advance
-The character sizes and animations are totally different. Way too many differences to try to list. --NKI 14:46, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
-Potential to crash the game (forever) if Akuma is fought. --hagure 22:02, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
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Comments

  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    Wouldn't it be interesting to also include HSF2AE from CPS-2 in the list, even if it is even harder to find and more expensive than CPS-2 ST/X? If I am not mistaken, it is just like ST when real ST characters are picked, which is done by holding start while selecting either X/Super Turbo or Super. There are some sound glitches, though.

    There is still a strong bias towards emulated versions. I think if one would bother to get boxed PCs with no Windows extra crap (firewall, AV, auto-updates, etc), just boot an emulator and have USB support, it would work better than any port.
  • ParryPerson.ParryPerson. It is done. Joined: Posts: 4,011
    Wouldn't it be interesting to also include HSF2AE from CPS-2 in the list, even if it is even harder to find and more expensive than CPS-2 ST/X? If I am not mistaken, it is just like ST when real ST characters are picked, which is done by holding start while selecting either X/Super Turbo or Super. There are some sound glitches, though.

    There is still a strong bias towards emulated versions. I think if one would bother to get boxed PCs with no Windows extra crap (firewall, AV, auto-updates, etc), just boot an emulator and have USB support, it would work better than any port.

    Interesting idea. I wonder how "barebones" you could get, though, and what the price range would be. You would also need a video card that outputs into RCA/Something a TV can receive. Then there are aspect problems, OS costs, and wonky emulation (which emulator to use). To my (old) knowledge ST emulation is not to great.

    I like the idea, though, and you could possibly run more than just ST, kind of like a straight boot into MAMEWah.
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  • TheMuffinManTheMuffinMan 「満」 「寸」 「越」 Joined: Posts: 506 ✭✭✭✭✭ OG
    -Potential to crash the game (forever) if Akuma is fought. --hagure 22:02, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

    That is so sick. I'm going to get the game just to see if that issue is true.
    "That you float along in the ocean and live a life of peace does not come from your own resourcefulness." - Demon's Sermon on Martial Arts
  • jedpossumjedpossum Ok, Darling Joined: Posts: 4,227


    only play the gba ports for shits and giggles

    I occasionally stream so you can see how boring poking around in the memory is. www.hitbox.tv/jedpossum

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  • oldschool_BRoldschool_BR Projectile spammer Joined: Posts: 2,442
    snip
    OS could be quite cheap, if a Linux version is used. I am not aware of any but X-MAME, which is troublesome to compile and run, and often crashes. As for emulators, some ports also used emulators. The main issue with one of them (CCC2) is not emulation inaccuracy, but its bad implementation, which led to input lag. Which emulator is another issue: the more accurate the emulator is, the more processing and clock speed it demands. This often gets to the point even new machines have trouble running software from very old hardware, due to coping with the different chips from such hardware, which sometimes have different clocks.

    It should be noted that emulation accuracy does not mean running the game in real time as the original hardware would. An accurate emulator would run any game or bootleg the original hardware would, and would crash or return error if the original emulator would crash. That is to say, if an emulator is accurate, you could burn any ROM that works in the emulator, and it would run on the actual thing. This takes a lot of processing power and often causes slowdowns. We do not really need all that. I believe we could drop accuracy for playability. For instance, I believe no-one would care if the background characters would change animation frames one step earlier or later than in the CPS-2, as long as it could deliver 60 fps gameplay with accurate player character behavior. Sound is another issue: only the original sound drive can deliver the perfect output, and as even actual cabs have different hardware (Q-sound or no Q-sound) this also does not need to be 100% accurate.
    only play the gba ports for shits and giggles
    WOW! That version is utter crap, man.
  • megaultrasupermegaultrasuper Joined: Posts: 833
    Dreamcast Super Turbo's video can be somewhat corrected by connecting your dreamcast to a display source that has the ability to adjust the horizontal and vertical size of the image. By doing this you can resize ST's image back to 4:3.

    One of the reasons why you have to do this is because the original CPS2 res is 384x224 or 384x240 depending on how you measure. This is a sort of widescreen resolution, and was used to squeeze in a bit of extra detail for CPS2 games while still allowing them to use a standard 15khz monitor. In an arcade setting it's expected that the operator will use the monitor's video controls to perform a sort of reverse anamorphic stretch to correct the video back to 4:3.

    Somewhere along the lines in the conversion from the games code on the disc and the display signal coming out of the dreamcast that got screwed up and we ended up with a skinny screen. 384x240 doesn't easily scale to 640x480 so, and NTSC might have something to do with it too. I'm still in the middle of figuring it out. I'd like to connect via a DC VGA box and see if the wrong AR is still there.

    One interesting thing is that by using an emulator it's possible to play the DC version in true CPS2 native resolution. You'll need to find a way to make your monitor display 384x240. There are programs out there like Soft 15khz and hardware like the ArcadeVGA.

    Once you've done that you can tell nullDC or the emulator of your choice to output in DC native mode with stretched black borders. This will eliminate the black borders that surround the dc video signal, and stretch the video to conform to your screen. However, since the video is only 384x240 it will calculate a scale factor of 1x from the original game data and make the game fit that area exactly. This will give you true native ST video.

    I'm not sure if I've explained that exactly right since I have just recently been playing around with this, but I've been using various emulators and the CPS2 in true 384x224 for a long time now and I recognize a native res when I see it.

    Another interesting point: Third Strike for dreamcast can be forced into native resolution mode over the vga cable. You'll need to do a little hack on the cable to get it to do 15khz video, but once you do that all you do is hold down a combination of buttons and it will give you real 384x240. This will make the dreamcast version of 3S look *exactly* like the arcade version. Keep in mind you need a monitor capable of displaying such a signal such as an arcade monitor or pro monitor like a Sony PVM.

    What if we could somehow hack the video code of the DC version of ST and patch it with code from the DC version of 3S? Then there would be a version of ST that can easily be installed into cabs and would be very, very hard to distinguish from the real thing during gameplay. And there are quite a few more Dreamcasts floating around than CPS2's.
  • ParryPerson.ParryPerson. It is done. Joined: Posts: 4,011
    OS could be quite cheap, if a Linux version is used. I am not aware of any but X-MAME, which is troublesome to compile and run, and often crashes. As for emulators, some ports also used emulators. The main issue with one of them (CCC2) is not emulation inaccuracy, but its bad implementation, which led to input lag. Which emulator is another issue: the more accurate the emulator is, the more processing and clock speed it demands. This often gets to the point even new machines have trouble running software from very old hardware, due to coping with the different chips from such hardware, which sometimes have different clocks.

    It should be noted that emulation accuracy does not mean running the game in real time as the original hardware would. An accurate emulator would run any game or bootleg the original hardware would, and would crash or return error if the original emulator would crash. That is to say, if an emulator is accurate, you could burn any ROM that works in the emulator, and it would run on the actual thing. This takes a lot of processing power and often causes slowdowns. We do not really need all that. I believe we could drop accuracy for playability. For instance, I believe no-one would care if the background characters would change animation frames one step earlier or later than in the CPS-2, as long as it could deliver 60 fps gameplay with accurate player character behavior. Sound is another issue: only the original sound drive can deliver the perfect output, and as even actual cabs have different hardware (Q-sound or no Q-sound) this also does not need to be 100% accurate.

    WOW! That version is utter crap, man.

    My issue with this would be only cost. Really, ST does not require much in the way of hardware to run in MAME. One could find an old computer with a TV out (even the most cheap video cards I can find online output in HDMI/DVI/VGA only) video card and USB ports and bam. ST machine. I'd only want it to be in a mid-range tower. I wonder where I can find older hardware online.
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  • megaultrasupermegaultrasuper Joined: Posts: 833
    Well, if you just want to build a dedicated ST machine you'd want to be able to use the windows version of FBA that comes with GGPO. That's sort of the "official" emulator version right now. The best OS choice would be a stripped down version of Windows XP. There are a few different versions available, the guys on arcadecontrols are fond of TinyXP. But the goal is to have as few things running in the background or updating as possible. You don't want it to crash in the middle of a tournament match because Flash or Java decided that they need to perform an update and took control of your screen.

    After that you would want to be able to output to a few different video standards. HDMI, VGA, S-video, and component are a given with easily obtained commercial video cards.

    However, if I were going to build such a rig I'd definitely want native resolution and refresh rates. You can use a program called Soft 15khz to program your video card to accept custom resolutions. It's possible to program an exact replica of the CPS2's resolution and refresh rate, and you can also get very, very close with the rest of the video timing. Once you have your computer outputting that resolution you will want to then change it in some way that it is easily displayable by most CRT's.

    I would suggest sticking to component video. But don't use the built in TV-out of your video card. It scales everything without regard to the resolution you set to and will completely ruin the image. It's best to stick to the old VGA port.

    With the right converter RGB > YPbPr is nearly lossless. You would be extremely hard pressed to tell the difference. This is probably the best converter:

    http://www.curtpalme.com/TC1600.shtm

    This doesn't alter the video signal timing at all, it only provides colorspace conversion. MOST crt's should be able to accept 384x224@59.7 just fine.

    As far as cost goes I was able to do full speed, native res, GGPOFBA on my old machine that had I think

    AMD 733 mhz processor
    768 mb ram
    Nvidia geforce FX 5200
    soundblaster PCI
    random amd board
    random 20 gig hard drive
    cheap black case

    You could probably buy an equivalent machine for about $50.
  • blood spit nightblood spit night Joined: Posts: 96
    AE is NOT just like ST if ST chars are used. There is a glitch with ST vega's walldive where you have to do the input differently, which is very annoying and I'm sure there's other differences aswell.
  • PaskyPasky Ninja with pistol! Joined: Posts: 1,863
    FBA is horrible and no way the "official version".
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  • ParryPerson.ParryPerson. It is done. Joined: Posts: 4,011
    AE is NOT just like ST if ST chars are used. There is a glitch with ST vega's walldive where you have to do the input differently, which is very annoying and I'm sure there's other differences aswell.
    Yes, this is listed above, it's very annoying.
    FBA is horrible and no way the "official version".
    I agree, FBA might be fast but it is all over the place.
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  • deadfrogdeadfrog Joined: Joined: Posts: 6,787
    TDC Final v2

    If you are going to play ST on Dreamcast, DOWNLOAD THIS DISC. I can't post links but it will come up immediately if you search for it on Google. It is hands-down the very best console port of vanilla ST.

    The key advantage of this version is that it includes a save file that 1) unlocks the secret dipswitch menu, and 2) sets the dipswitches correctly for you. This is the closest thing that we have to "arcade perfect."

    I run local tourneys on this version and everybody loves it. I know at least a couple of other cities have used it as well.
    TDC Final v2 is a custom compilation for the Dreamcast made by our very own Toodles (a Tech Talk genius).

    - It lets you choose whether you'd like to play ST in English or Japanese.
    - The disc also allows you to play MVC2, CVS2, 3S (ver.B), Puzzle Fighter (yay!), and Ikaruga (lol).
    - You can optionally disable the music in ST, or use the soundtrack from any one of the other fighting games.

    (In case you didn't know, nearly all Dreamcasts can play burned games without any mod or hack. Good people Bad people patch the games to "auto-boot" so you can just download, burn, and play! This is how everyone was showing up to tournaments with those sweet MVC2 music mixes a few years back.)

    Here is a PS1/PS2-to-DC controller converter that has no input lag and never drops inputs: the Total Control Plus adapter made by EMS. You can easily get two of them, plus a Dreamcast with a memory card on eBay, for under $100 including shipping; people give away CRT TV's on Craigslist ever day, and now your game disc is free too!
  • ParryPerson.ParryPerson. It is done. Joined: Posts: 4,011
    TDC Final v2

    If you are going to play ST on Dreamcast, DOWNLOAD THIS DISC. I can't post links but it will come up immediately if you search for it on Google. It is hands-down the very best console port of vanilla ST.

    The key advantage of this version is that it includes a save file that 1) unlocks the secret dipswitch menu, and 2) sets the dipswitches correctly for you. This is the closest thing that we have to "arcade perfect."

    I run local tourneys on this version and everybody loves it. I know at least a couple of other cities have used it as well.
    i said i'm still working on it!!!

    Yeah, I think everyone that owns a Dreamcast has the Toodles disc. Very awesome.
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  • blood spit nightblood spit night Joined: Posts: 96
    Thing about using burned games on dc A) they can kill your dreamcast, I've had one die from that. B) not every dreamcast can read them, iirc it's the older models that can, any way to tell if a dc can read them for sure..?

    Also, the UD-CPS2 will come to save the day pretty sure. Hopefully it will bring more ST tourneys and bring it back to EVO
  • ParryPerson.ParryPerson. It is done. Joined: Posts: 4,011
    Thing about using burned games on dc A) they can kill your dreamcast, I've had one die from that. B) not every dreamcast can read them, iirc it's the older models that can, any way to tell if a dc can read them for sure..?

    Also, the UD-CPS2 will come to save the day pretty sure. Hopefully it will bring more ST tourneys and bring it back to EVO
    They do not "kill your dreamcast". I have 2 00 models that have been playing burns for 10 years now with no problems. I know people want to tell you it wears out the laser quicker. Unless you are burning at maxspeed on shitty media you will not have an issue. Every Dreamcast except for the "EA" (black) model can read burns.
    Some images require a bootdisc (have not seen this in 6 or 7 years, though.).
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  • megaultrasupermegaultrasuper Joined: Posts: 833
    FBA is horrible and no way the "official version".

    It might not be the most accurate emulator, but it is the most popular. The most competitive matches of emulated ST get played via GGPO and FBA. By using it as your emu of choice for a stand alone setup you can ensure a consistent experience for most players coming from there instead of making them learn the nuances of yet another version of ST by using something else.
    Thing about using burned games on dc A) they can kill your dreamcast, I've had one die from that. B) not every dreamcast can read them, iirc it's the older models that can, any way to tell if a dc can read them for sure..?

    Also, the UD-CPS2 will come to save the day pretty sure. Hopefully it will bring more ST tourneys and bring it back to EVO

    The days of burned games damaging your dreamcast are over. A long time ago people would download ISO's that had not been properly dummied and would result in the dreamcast having to access the disc much more often than was necessary. Now almost every release is designed to use up the entire space of the disc and push the most important data to the far edge of the disc ensuring less load on the laser mechanism.

    Always using good quality CD-R's will also make a difference. And make sure to burn at the lowest speed possible. I've known people with dozens of burned games and a thousand hours or more on a dreamcast with no problems at all.
  • Zx-toleZx-tole Joined: Posts: 630
    what would be your recommendation of a good quality CD-R megaultrasuper?
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  • ultracomboultracombo Weakest Loser Joined: Posts: 741
    TDC final v2 has shitty sound quality though.

    Still nice that it has Ikaruga.
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  • megaultrasupermegaultrasuper Joined: Posts: 833
    If you want good sound then you can just download a straight rip of Super X. There's an English language patch out there for it too.

    Personally, I've used all kinds of CD-R's for dreamcast burns and haven't had many issues at all. Usually I just buy the cheapest thing available at Rite Aid or Wal-mart. Usually memorex, but I've used Sony, Verbatim, etc. I've heard many people claim that those extremely cheap and flimsy completely blank CD-R's you can find online don't work very well for any kind of burned games. In the past there was a store brand called TDK that gave me some troubles as well.

    My own personal favorites were the memorex black bottomed CD-Rs. Like these:
    memorex-rev2.jpg

    They worked well for me. Reading around the net seems like some people love them, some hate them. Meh, they look cool.
  • MizukiMizuki ayy lmao Joined: Posts: 3,200
    Cool fact, ST is not actually a 4:3 game. It's some whacky resolution (384 × 224 to be exact).
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  • megaultrasupermegaultrasuper Joined: Posts: 833
    Cool fact, ST is not actually a 4:3 game. It's some whacky resolution (384 × 224 to be exact).

    ...
    One of the reasons why you have to do this is because the original CPS2 res is 384x224 or 384x240 depending on how you measure. This is a sort of widescreen resolution, and was used to squeeze in a bit of extra detail for CPS2 games while still allowing them to use a standard 15khz monitor. In an arcade setting it's expected that the operator will use the monitor's video controls to perform a sort of reverse anamorphic stretch to correct the video back to 4:3.

    And to be clear. Super Turbo IS a 4:3 aspect ratio game. The resolution is not. If you're playing on an emulator and you are in a window you should always check the box for "correct aspect ratio" to get 4:3. If you don't and you use "normal stretch" you'll get a too wide image.

    Getting back to ST HD. This is what I know

    good things
    Ken and other characters with the issue can't reversal super just like in arcade ST.
    -old characters are there like normal
    -all old glitches present
    -generally 99% accurate

    bad things
    -fucked up button config screens
    -speed is significantly slower than arcade ST, slower than Super X, and a little bit slower than the dreamcast.
    -HD graphics cause some weirdness occasionally. (point blank blocked fireball appears on the wrong side of the blocker)
    -one additional frame of input delay

    and most importantly:

    There is a glitch that occurs wherein a super move will start without shadows or the super sound effect. It's delayed by about 1/2 second. This can actually impact the outcome of a match.

    For example. I play Boxer. My opponent plays a character that can stuff one of my rushes. Let's say Dee Jay. I think his cr. forward kick will stuff a rush.

    My opponent is on the ground crouching and I'm standing away from him poking and I decide to random super out of nowhere, hoping to catch him trying to stuff a rush.

    What he sees initially is balrog with his arm extended in the same animation as the rush punch. On instinct, he sticks out a cr. forward to stuff it. But it's not. It's actually the glitched super. It looks identical on startup to a rush punch, but it has invincibility. So it just blows through the cr. forward attack. A half of a second later the super sound plays and shadows start to follow the character.

    This is actually a pretty bad glitch, and I'm surprised why it hasn't been mentioned much in the past on SRK. It has changed the outcome of quite a few matches between myself and my friends. It happens maybe 1 in 15 matches or so. At first I thought it was just relegated to Boxer, but I've seen it happen with Fei Long and Bison as well.
  • -TheBastard--TheBastard- FAB u LOSE! Joined: Posts: 1,276
    very true, the game was designed to be played in 4:3(correct aspect ratio), so playing ST in "normal stretch" is too fucking stupid, characters look like midgets
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  • ParryPerson.ParryPerson. It is done. Joined: Posts: 4,011
    very true, the game was designed to be played in 4:3(correct aspect ratio), so playing ST in "normal stretch" is too fucking stupid, characters look like midgets
    Hard to tell the new kids on the block that playing these games is more correct in 4:3 though. It saddens me.
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  • Gen-AnGen-An 何で彼女出来ない? Joined: Posts: 616
    what would be your recommendation of a good quality CD-R megaultrasuper?

    Taiyo Yuden. All you need to know for CD-Rs.
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  • GanelonGanelon Joined: Posts: 1,101
    There are more problems with the ports than what the wiki mentions but I won't bother because they only go to further illustrate that the DC version is the best port. HDR classic's main problem is additional input lag, with the 360 version being slightly better (2-3 frames) than the PS3 version (4 frames): http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/comparison-of-hdr-versions-ps3-360-dc-cps2.81717/

    I'll try to clear up some of the misconceptions in this topic though:

    -Arcade HSF2 suffers from all the issues that PS2 HSF2 (non-Satakore) does. The only real difference is that ST n.claw's wall dive motion was changed from "d,u,negative edge K" to "d,K,u." Apparently, the Satakore version is what restored the wall dive motion to the proper "d,u,K"

    -Emulation isn't reliable because you're never sure if USB lag or some other type of lag is present. On quite a few recent computer setups I've tried, there has always been a source of lag coming from somewhere. PCs may be fine but only if they can be proven to be lag-free; I certainly wouldn't just trust someone's word on the matter to use for a tourney, esp. since I have more to lose with my slower-than-average reaction times. And that's besides any issues nFBA might present, although the emulated speed is apparently quite comparable to the original's from what others have tested

    -Only the US GBA version crashes when you reach Gouki. That's not to say the JP version didn't have its own mild bugs though

    -I don't completely trust the TDC2 version. While I've had no issues with it during play, from what I've heard, bonus games will crash the system if you turn them on and encounter one. On a legitimate copy of X for Matching Service, the bonus games work fine. This strange discrepancy leads me to question whether there may be other issues with the hack

    -As megaultrasuper mentioned, the slightly wider 384x224 CPS2 resolution is intended to be dragged into a 4:3 output with oblong pixels.

    However, when porting, most consoles have their own acceptable resolutions—none of which are equivalent to 384x224—and there's no simple and clean way to remap the pixel graphics. So you try to stuff the 384x224 however best you can. Some versions cut out part of the sides so that every object on-screen looks 1:1 compared to an arcade image. Other versions try to fit as much of the 384x224 source image in as possible and then let the monitor re-stretch the image (e.g. why everything in the DC version looks too thin), so you'll have to manually adjust the monitor display dimensions to a normally incorrect level just to have objects shaped correctly (e.g. a circular moon instead of an oval moon).

    Ultimately, a CPS2 port's picture depends on the console's supported resolutions and how the developer programmed the conversion. Note that a supergun's RGB encoder transfers low-res images as-is, so a properly set monitor automatically fits the 384x224 image into a 4:3 box. That's another advantage of using superguns with the actual ST board where possible.
  • megaultrasupermegaultrasuper Joined: Posts: 833
    A little bit of clarity concering 384x224 versus 384x240 courtesy of SailorSat, the author of Soft 15khz and overall god(dess) of all things concerning monitors and resolutions:

    "Actually pretty much every arcade "resolution" at 60Hz outputs 262 lines.
    Pretty simple mathematics -> 262 Lines "per Frame" multiplied by 60 Hz (Frames per Second) = 15.720 Hz or 15,7kHz.

    The only difference between a 224 "active" line resolution and a 240 "active" line resoltution actually is the front/back porch, meaning "not used" lines which are usually black lines on most arcade games. The "sync" pulse each frame stays about the same for rather technical reasons.

    Some games and several older home computers (Commodore 64 / Amiga) don't output "black" for the porches, but rather the current Background Color (like the light Blue on a Commodore 64).

    Now actually one simple fact should be noted. Arcade cabinets (and their monitors) were NOT thought to switch the game (and hence the resolution) every 5 minutes. Sure there are several multi-game systems like the neogeo mvs, but they all output the same resolution.

    What AdvanceMAME does is either enlarging the "sync pulse" or reducing the total visible lines per frame (262) by increasing the vertical refresh (60Hz).

    If I would add a 224 line mode to my VGA card, it would be exactly the same modeline, except the "active" lines would be reduced from 240 to 224 (-16) and the front and back porch would be increased by 8 lines each.

    So in the end it pretty much stays the same. Either MAME adds 8 lines "black" at the top and the bottom, or the VGA card does add them in the porches."
    from the arcadecontrols.com forum

    So when you're using an emulator you can use 224 or 240 line resolutions and pretty much get the same result. Personally, I prefer to use the exact resolution of 384x224 and use the extra front and back porch just like a CPS2.

    Dreamcast third strike can enable 240 lines progressive mode if you hold start+L. Why didn't they do that with ST?!!
  • philcitophilcito The Berserker Shoto Joined: Posts: 1,178
    i've been playing the dreamcast version with demul emulator and at least for me, it feels smoother than fba on windows 7, i prefer to play offline casuals with demul than fba.
    "You hit coins at the same time as punch, just like philcito does". Bookah
    " I don't snore and I shower daily". Rekkaken

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  • ParryPerson.ParryPerson. It is done. Joined: Posts: 4,011
    -I don't completely trust the TDC2 version. While I've had no issues with it during play, from what I've heard, bonus games will crash the system if you turn them on and encounter one. On a legitimate copy of X for Matching Service, the bonus games work fine. This strange discrepancy leads me to question whether there may be other issues with the hack

    Hmm, interesting, I've played through the bonus stages many times, with a TDC2 Burn and a regular "ST Only" burn, and have yet to see crashing happen. I'm going to try and force that to happen on both as my curiousness cannot be denied!

    I will say that I cannot actually stand FBA. It seems to speed up, slow down, chop itself up, and just in general be all over the place. I've tried GGPO and cannot understand how anyone can stand it. I'm sure it's some settings hidden in FBA on my end that I'm not finding... or I'll just assume that.

    Does anyone have an idea how many stretch taps to widen the image on the DC would be best? I've always just left it as is.
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  • GanelonGanelon Joined: Posts: 1,101
    Hmm, interesting, I've played through the bonus stages many times, with a TDC2 Burn and a regular "ST Only" burn, and have yet to see crashing happen. I'm going to try and force that to happen on both as my curiousness cannot be denied!

    For additional info, the DC bonus game issue was mentioned and corroborated here: http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/super-turbo-dc-outfit-colour-question.38774/

    As for nFBA, everyone's circumstances are different. On my old machine, online GGPO is very smooth but offline nFBA has occasional lag spikes, even when nothing else is running. GGPO at its best is by far the best netcode you can have. But so many folks have non-ideal setups and on those, GGPO can perform down to HDR netcode level or worse. And there are so many possibilities as to what could be wrong.
  • GreenflagGreenflag Joined: Posts: 366
    Can anyone tell me what the flaws of the PC port are? I have the CD version and the v1.5 patch for it.

    I already read about v1.6 patch, but I can't seem to find it anymore.

    564435_45632_front.jpg
  • KuroppiKuroppi くろっぴ Joined: Posts: 891
    That artwork. I'm speechless...
    Shhh... ST in da house!

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  • DNGR S PAPERCUTDNGR S PAPERCUT Joined: Posts: 1,608
    Obviously, this artwork falls into the avant garde category. Perhaps from the school German Expressionism. I see a heavy influience of Ernst Kirchner and Max Beckmann in this piece.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Ludwig_Kirchner

    https://www.google.com/search?sugexp=chrome,mod%3D6&q=Max+Beckmann&safe=images&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=uLHfT-ugMqOL2AWWqb3xCQ&biw=1270&bih=397&sei=2rHfT6agEejL2QWKmpWHCg

    There is a good use of color juxtaposition between the dark backgrounds with the bright foreground colors. The eerie facial expressions show further evidence of the German Expressionism school of art.
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
    Ah shit..    
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,722
    That art work is too good. Something very disturbing about Deejay's face, his teeth look like they were photoshopped from Blankas. Why do Blanka and Chun's feet have flames shooting from them? What's with Akuma's Picasso-like face?

    And why is T.hawk just chillin out in the middle of the street, doing his best shoryuken impression?
  • -TheBastard--TheBastard- FAB u LOSE! Joined: Posts: 1,276

    And why is T.hawk just chillin out in the middle of the street, doing his best shoryuken impression?

    I think he is trying to pull an aerial sako tick?
    <blitzfu> cool, and bastard is a loser, screen shot that
    <Pasky> he's always trolling, he has a macro button that troll
    <Kyouya>LoL Bastard, best post evah! But you forgot the tiger uppercut!!
    Imagine a snail being able to play fgs, and being a noob in it, it would sure be a salty snail, oh the tragedy of a snail!
  • GreenflagGreenflag Joined: Posts: 366
    Aside from the cover, what is wrong with the game itself? ;-)

    I got it off eBay because I wanted to get my hands on the soundtrack which is like the best version I've ever heard.

    Here's a few examples:






    Heavy damage part of the Ken theme is nuts.

    SRK Wiki says: "The PC version initially contained bugs such as moves being missing, however there are two patches available that fix most of the major bugs in this version."

    Wikipedia: "The MS-DOS version, developed by Eurocom and published by GameTek, was released on May 1995 in North America and Europe. The port is almost accurate to the arcade version and utilizes a six-button controller. There are secret commands to use each character's original color scheme, as well as moves that were removed from the 3DO version due to memory issues. The option menus have custom settings (such as enabling and disabling parallax scrolling) that allows the game to be played in a low hardware specs. The biggest change is the game's resolution. The game is played on a resolution of 320x200 on AT/PC-compatible machines and since the graphic data is ported straight from the arcade version, all the characters appear large due to the narrow screen size. Because of this, the distance between both fighters at the beginning of a match is a bit narrower than in the arcade version. There were many glitches in the initial shipments of the DOS port, such as characters landing and recovering normally after landing from a jump if they're knocked out in mid-air with a basic attack. A patch file was distributed that corrected these bugs, which were later fixed in version 1.5 of the retail release. A patch file for a version 1.6 was released as well. The music has been remixed as well, although the soundtrack is different from the one released for the 3DO."

    That means once patched the PC version might be one of the best if not the best ports out there? The only thing I hate is the narrow screen size.
  • eltroubleeltrouble Joined: Posts: 5,722
    Just because wikipedia says that it's accurate to the arcade version, doesn't make it true. ST heads have been looking for a good port of the game for years, and nothing's come up. I'm sure if the PC version was any good, people would flock to that, instead of the current standards of GGPO and MAME.
  • GreenflagGreenflag Joined: Posts: 366
    Just because wikipedia says that it's accurate to the arcade version, doesn't make it true. ST heads have been looking for a good port of the game for years, and nothing's come up. I'm sure if the PC version was any good, people would flock to that, instead of the current standards of GGPO and MAME.

    That's why I'm asking. I'm not an oldschool player, I played the game for the first time when it came out for SNES. So while I can run the game and see if it is fine, I have no way to compare it to the original thing.
  • -TheBastard--TheBastard- FAB u LOSE! Joined: Posts: 1,276
    3do version has the best soundtrack for any ST version
    <blitzfu> cool, and bastard is a loser, screen shot that
    <Pasky> he's always trolling, he has a macro button that troll
    <Kyouya>LoL Bastard, best post evah! But you forgot the tiger uppercut!!
    Imagine a snail being able to play fgs, and being a noob in it, it would sure be a salty snail, oh the tragedy of a snail!
  • DigitaLInfamyDigitaLInfamy Joined: Posts: 85
    ...
    564435_45632_front.jpg
    T. Hawk looks like the Ultimate Warrior....
    Akuma looks like the Chupacabra that I seen in T.J. with my own 2 ears.
  • -TheBastard--TheBastard- FAB u LOSE! Joined: Posts: 1,276
    Wish GGPO had the dreamcast ST version, why? it has the bonus stages n thats Gold :) here a cool vid courtesy of NKI, enjoy:
    <blitzfu> cool, and bastard is a loser, screen shot that
    <Pasky> he's always trolling, he has a macro button that troll
    <Kyouya>LoL Bastard, best post evah! But you forgot the tiger uppercut!!
    Imagine a snail being able to play fgs, and being a noob in it, it would sure be a salty snail, oh the tragedy of a snail!
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