[KOFXIII] Terry Bogard

2

Comments

  • Reiki.KitoReiki.Kito Joined: Posts: 411
    Suggestive! Even if tier lists exist, they're based on opinion and ease. There's plenty we don't know about and plenty to learn and use. It might also mean we have to approach Terry in a different perspective. Instead of digging for long damaging combos from mix-ups and overheads, maybe we should be forcing guard crush scenarios or crossups. He has a great crossup in his D and he has some ways to break someone's guard in one go. I know of one, but the second/third variations I'm still working out to see if they work.
  • LabanLaban KOF98 Player Joined: Posts: 2,558
    I'm running Terry point on my main team. I got the set ups. I'm going back to my roots.

    People are sleeping on meterless Terry.
  • TerrastormTerrastorm Joined: Posts: 263
    Yes, because one person's opinion is absolute...
    Even so, low tier in this game is a lot different than low tier in marvel or even street fighter. Everyone can really kill you.
  • blackgenmablackgenma Joined: Posts: 181
    as for as lowest goes, I think its an exaggeration. I mean, he does good damage and has a wide range of tools, and he's got solid normals. his only real problems are crack shoot not being as good as it could be (I wish it was safer as a pressure tool) and opening the opponent up is not easy when you only have one overhead that costs bar and doesn't lead into a combo.

    either way, I don't play terry because I think he's top tier, but an unbiased assessment leads me to seriously question what criteria dun basing him being he weakest. it can't seriously be "match-up" numbers, because terry doesn't get dominated by half the cast. a more realistic position would be based on what he does well and how effective he is compared to others. he may be overshadowed by some in the cast, and he could be low, but seriously doubt he's bottom. that's a little ridiculous.
    I'm running Terry point on my main team. I got the set ups. I'm going back to my roots.

    People are sleeping on meterless Terry.

    how does one play meter-less terry effectively?

    reveal your secrets to me.....
  • Bushin ClanBushin Clan Say it with ya Chest! Joined: Posts: 409
    as for as lowest goes, I think its an exaggeration. I mean, he does good damage and has a wide range of tools, and he's got solid normals. his only real problems are crack shoot not being as good as it could be (I wish it was safer as a pressure tool) and opening the opponent up is not easy when you only have one overhead that costs bar and doesn't lead into a combo.

    either way, I don't play terry because I think he's top tier, but an unbiased assessment leads me to seriously question what criteria dun basing him being he weakest. it can't seriously be "match-up" numbers, because terry doesn't get dominated by half the cast. a more realistic position would be based on what he does well and how effective he is compared to others. he may be overshadowed by some in the cast, and he could be low, but seriously doubt he's bottom. that's a little ridiculous.



    how does one play meter-less terry effectively?

    reveal your secrets to me.....
    I agree with Blackgenma I recenty got back with T. Bogard. And I must say he's maybe the best Character outside of King. But T. Bogard has alot of good high stun moves that takes alot of damage and doesn't take that much of meter. I usually try to finish everything up with strong rising tackle to go for stuns bar level rising tackle does damage but doesn't add to stun. I would would highly suggest getting use to his crouching combos lk, lp, cr db-hp into low burning knuckle, it builds meter quick and good range as well. His guard combo damge is great too. I just think tier listing is overrated for now it's still too early to tell.
  • Reiki.KitoReiki.Kito Joined: Posts: 411
    Been a bit, everyone! Back from SCR and saw a lot of interesting stuff!

    Something I noticed that Nocturnal did to me in a match (So can't take any credit for this what so ever). After a regular combo midscreen, st.C, df+C, qcf+A [DC] qcb+B .... He did st.B and then waited to throw out a power wave. The st.B resets me to land on my feet. If timed properly, you could put someone in block stun as they're landing or maybe even make them land on it.

    I don't understand it because Nocturnal developed it, not me. However, I think it's worth a shot with Terry for some midscreen reassurance without spending meter.

    EDIT: Messed up the notation earlier so I fixed it.
  • blackgenmablackgenma Joined: Posts: 181
    Something I noticed that Nocturnal did to me in a match (So can't take any credit for this what so ever). After a regular combo midscreen, st.C, df+C, [DC] qcb+B .... He did st.B and then waited to throw out a power wave.

    are you missing an input there? because df+C, qcb+B isn't a drive cancel. did you mean st.C df+C, qcb+A, [DC] qcb+B?
  • Reiki.KitoReiki.Kito Joined: Posts: 411
    Yes, forgot to put in Burn Knuckle
  • blackgenmablackgenma Joined: Posts: 181
    OK! I found some interesting things on terry! ok so here's a list.

    1) C power wave has projectile absorption. it even absorbs EX projectiles. so if you get it out and your in range, this thing will eat you opponents ex projectile and hit them. in short, if you were wondering what use this gimp little projectile has over A version; it absorbs projectiles

    3) I've confirm that both versions of buster wolf travel faster than ex burn knuckle. I used two methods to test this out. I can't find any evidence that ex buster wolf is faster than regular buster wolf though.

    Wiki has been updated with this info.

    Edit: had something dumb and wrong, so I removed it
  • Reiki.KitoReiki.Kito Joined: Posts: 411
    OK! I found some interesting things on terry! ok so here's a list.

    1) C power wave has projectile absorption. it even absorbs EX projectiles. so if you get it out and your in range, this thing will eat you opponents ex projectile and hit them. in short, if you were wondering what use this gimp little projectile has over A version; it absorbs projectiles

    3) I've confirm that both versions of buster wolf travel faster than ex burn knuckle. I used two methods to test this out. I can't find any evidence that ex buster wolf is faster than regular buster wolf though.

    Wiki has been updated with this info.

    Edit: had something dumb and wrong, so I removed it

    Number 1 wasn't on the wiki? Yea, it can eat fireballs. It's a bit slower though so you have to anticipate someone's going to do it. The range is also a bit smaller. Once you get the spacing right, you can punish fireballs and score a soft knockdown when it hits.

    The only issues with it are as I mentioned before: It comes out slower and slower recovery as well as the short reach. At the range it will reliably hit, no one should be throwing fireballs.

    For number 3, I did not know that. I figure that means you should punish people with Buster Wolf instead of Ex Burn Knuckle.
  • LabanLaban KOF98 Player Joined: Posts: 2,558
    It was in the official Console Change List that Buster Wolf's speed was increased to that of EX Buster Wolf. The difference between the moves is invulnerability and damage.
  • Reiki.KitoReiki.Kito Joined: Posts: 411
    It's still good to know that EX Burn Knuckle is slower than Buster Wolf. Does more damage anyway.
  • blackgenmablackgenma Joined: Posts: 181
    the reason I mentioned the buster wolves differences between the ex and regular was to check if there was any start-up differences between the two. like,what if ex buster wolf started up in 3 frames and the other in 5 frames, even though the dashing speeds were identical. I didn't bother with doing super extensive testing on it because I'm lazy.

    and yeah, no where have I seen it mentioned that terry's C fireball eats projectiles. literally no where. the fact that it eats ex projectiles like Elizabeth's is so hype to me.
  • Reiki.KitoReiki.Kito Joined: Posts: 411
    That's real odd. That's been in since the arcade version. No biggie though. If we can find a use for it though, I'll be happy. I want to use it more.
  • LabanLaban KOF98 Player Joined: Posts: 2,558
    Yeah, I forgot to put it in there when I first made Terry's page. Sorry. I only played Arcade version for like a total of 4 days of the entirety of its lifespan and I couldn't get as much testing down as I wanted. When I do an editorial rehaul of the wiki, I should be sprucing up and cutting down on errors. I apologize for any current, inaccurate information that's on there.
  • Reiki.KitoReiki.Kito Joined: Posts: 411
    No problem, Laban. Terry seems really simple, but you learn new stuff every day about him.

    I didn't know his EX Buster Wolf had forward body invincibility until I stopped a Lvl 4 dropkick with it and traded the last hit with him.
  • LonestebanLonesteban Joined: Posts: 4
    Hey everyone,

    I'm a long-time casual fighting game player (i.e. scrub) who has really gotten into SSFIV and my buddy hooked me up with KOF XIII. I am totally set on learning Terry and have been practicing with plans to complete his trials and I seem to have no problem cancelling circle into charge moves. However, CANNOT do Trial 3 to advance any further. I am totally stuck on cancelling his Rising Upper into a Power Geyser. Everytime I do it, it seems I get a Power Wave or nothing at all. Is the linking frame really short or something? I've watched Vesper Arcade do it on Youtube about 100 times and my timing seems to mirror his, but I just can't get it! Help!
  • Reiki.KitoReiki.Kito Joined: Posts: 411
    Hey everyone,

    I'm a long-time casual fighting game player (i.e. scrub) who has really gotten into SSFIV and my buddy hooked me up with KOF XIII. I am totally set on learning Terry and have been practicing with plans to complete his trials and I seem to have no problem cancelling circle into charge moves. However, CANNOT do Trial 3 to advance any further. I am totally stuck on cancelling his Rising Upper into a Power Geyser. Everytime I do it, it seems I get a Power Wave or nothing at all. Is the linking frame really short or something? I've watched Vesper Arcade do it on Youtube about 100 times and my timing seems to mirror his, but I just can't get it! Help!

    This was a quote from an earlier post I made, hope it helps!
    So today I was trying the infamous Trial #5. That crap's not easy, but I learned a new skill. You can tiger knee with Terry by doing. dn.gif db.gif bk.gif ub.gif up.gif ~delay~ a.gif and he'll do rising tackle. This is how I learned how to beat Terry's Rising tackle [SC] Power Geyser combo. I believe you could do the same thing with Buster wolf just the other way.

    So, new tech! You can tiger knee charge moves!

    After you "tiger knee" the motion, you quickly do hcf and there you go.
  • AlenthAlenth Joined: Posts: 560
    Good tip Reiki i also was looking for that shortcut.
    VF5: Sarah, P4U: Elizabeth, Aigis, KOF XIII: Elizabeth, Clark, Kyo.
  • LonestebanLonesteban Joined: Posts: 4
    Thanks for the tip guys, but it's actually something more elementary I'm having trouble with.
    The combo is JumpFoward HK, Neutral HK, DownForward HP, Power Geyser (which I am doing as QCB, HCF B) Did no one else have trouble with this? It seems like the DF HP just doesn't flow naturally into the Power Geyser input.
  • BurningVigorBurningVigor *sigh* Joined: Posts: 247
    Just do it fast? I don't think there is any short cut for that. DFHP QCB, HCF HP

    I always felt there was enough time to buffer it, at least more so than previous kofs.
    KOFXIII - ExKyo / K` / Andy
    AH3 - Nazuna(Time) / Akane(anything)
    GGAC - Bridget / Johnny / Sol / Chipp / Order-Sol
    SSF4 - Guy / Sakura
  • blackgenmablackgenma Joined: Posts: 181
    Thanks for the tip guys, but it's actually something more elementary I'm having trouble with.
    The combo is JumpFoward HK, Neutral HK, DownForward HP, Power Geyser (which I am doing as QCB, HCF B) Did no one else have trouble with this? It seems like the DF HP just doesn't flow naturally into the Power Geyser input.

    I had the same exact problem. the window is very short, and I've done it properly without crazy mashing a grand total of once. what you want to do is abuse the ability to input more moves than the actual trial combo requires. for example, what I did was...

    j.D, st,D, df+C, qcb+A [DC] qcb, hcf+A/C.

    as you can see, I shoved a burn knuckle in there, which gave me more time to buffer into the power geyser. I have crap execution and I'm playing on pad, so I had to use this method. I think you my get even more lenient timing is you use EX burn knuckle after df+C instead.
  • LonestebanLonesteban Joined: Posts: 4
    This game is HARD. I can't even imagine the older games.
  • phoenixnlphoenixnl Joined: Posts: 642
    I had the same exact problem. the window is very short, and I've done it properly without crazy mashing a grand total of once. what you want to do is abuse the ability to input more moves than the actual trial combo requires. for example, what I did was...

    j.D, st,D, df+C, qcb+A [DC] qcb, hcf+A/C.

    as you can see, I shoved a burn knuckle in there, which gave me more time to buffer into the power geyser. I have crap execution and I'm playing on pad, so I had to use this method. I think you my get even more lenient timing is you use EX burn knuckle after df+C instead.

    Not really worth spending the 50% drive on that though, but you gotta do what you gotta do. Anyway, Power Geyser input is qcb,db,f+P not qcb,hcf+P, knowing that might help.
  • TerrastormTerrastorm Joined: Posts: 263
    This game is HARD. I can't even imagine the older games.
    Make sure you are hitting the last direction in every move before pressing the button.
    http://wiki.shoryuken.com/The_King_of_Fighters_XIII/Game_Elements/Command_Interpreter
  • blackgenmablackgenma Joined: Posts: 181
    Not really worth spending the 50% drive on that though, but you gotta do what you gotta do. Anyway, Power Geyser input is qcb,db,f+P not qcb,hcf+P, knowing that might help.

    if your trying to do the combo in actual matches, then yes, it is not worth doing it that way. the way I described is just a scrubby method to beat trail mode.
  • MGSMGS RTJRecon Joined: Posts: 1,016
    what HD combos are you guys using in the corner? most of the terry stuff i've seen has him starting with his back close to the corner. in my matches the opponent is usually cornered.
    Foxhound's own
    <<Grey Fox>>
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  • Reiki.KitoReiki.Kito Joined: Posts: 411
    Yea, that's no fun really. I've been trying to work on an HD combo that's the most damaging for the least amount of damage. Here's one that I have tried:

    j.D, st.D, f+A [HDA], st.D, f+A, qcb+A, [HDC] qcb+D, d~u+C, [HDC] qcb+AC, qcb+A, ~delay till the opponent is really close to the ground~ d~u+C, [HDC] qcb+C, ~delay~ [HDC] qcb+D => Finisher

    If you finish with d~u+C, it's about 707
    If you finish with d~u+AC, it's about 737.
    If you finish with a [HDC] qcb+AC, it does about 747

    Other finishers aren't as useful. You can actually play around with this combo and throw in more meter where you like. You can put an EX burn knuckle in the front, but you won't be able to do the rest of the combo because qcb+D will whiff and it puts your opponent at the PERFECT height to cancel into qcb+AC and hit them for a pop-up. You can put in a tiger kneed Rising Tackle and finish with regular Power Geyser for a little extra damage. It's probably the most damaging 1 stock move you have. You can force a hard knockdown too with an EX Crackshoot as well.

    Lot you can do, but Terry's not Mr. "I'll beat the crap out of you" when he's in the corner because his EX Power Geyser, Neomax, and EX Buster Wolf just don't hit all hits in the corner so your big damage isn't useful in the corner.
  • hundjsiegfriedhundjsiegfried Joined: Posts: 19
    An Ex Terry would be great. What do you think? I miss Terry's power dunk and fire kick. :)
  • ZeromurasameZeromurasame Too much wrist action Joined: Posts: 364
    So I did some tinkering around with Mr Bogard and found a basic safejump setup that he has on both of his hard knockdowns. If you throw them mid-screen and super jump immediately afterwards, or if you combo into Ex crack shoot in the corner and hyper hop immediately after. It's not the fanciest set-up in the world but I've tested this on every character that has an anti-air reversal that is easy to abuse on wake-up and it works every single time. The only things that it will lose to are wake up command throws, but I'm sure those can be jumped if you see them coming.
    No
  • Reiki.KitoReiki.Kito Joined: Posts: 411
    Will give that a shot, thanks!
  • Hyun SaiHyun Sai Joined: Posts: 530
    Another simple safe jump : EX Crackshot, back dash, jump forward.


    EDIT, made a mistake with the hop ^^
  • blackgenmablackgenma Joined: Posts: 181
    So I've started to use cl.D now, since Iv'e realized that the damage output in combos increases when you use it instead of of cl.C, and I've realized that the hit box can catch hops, like kyo's or iori's cl.C (only not as good, I'd imagine). so having discovered this, is there any practical reason to use cl.C over cl.D, besides being an easier hit confirm?
  • Reiki.KitoReiki.Kito Joined: Posts: 411
    cl.C is a faster move. It's 4 frames whereas cl.D is like 5-6 frames. Being a slower move makes it harder to use as a frame trap.
  • Terry BogardeTerry Bogarde Joined: Posts: 259
    here's a video showing off the changes for terry for the console version. it was taken from the Elive discussion with the dream cancel guys. no commentary.


    was this guy just showing whats possible with terry or is this combo possible? will a full 5 bars and drive gauge allow this combo?
  • blackgenmablackgenma Joined: Posts: 181
    was this guy just showing whats possible with terry or is this combo possible? will a full 5 bars and drive gauge allow this combo?

    are you talking about the last combo he did on the video? yeah, its possible, he uses 5 bars in the combo, so it can be done in a real match.
  • Terry BogardeTerry Bogarde Joined: Posts: 259
    are you talking about the last combo he did on the video? yeah, its possible, he uses 5 bars in the combo, so it can be done in a real match.
    hey isnt that fireball, fireball neomax a 3 bar super? i saw 2 EX crack shots, 1 neomax, and 1 normal buster wolf. isnt that 6 bars needed?
  • ZeromurasameZeromurasame Too much wrist action Joined: Posts: 364
    Holy damn. That run under EX Burn knuckle combo is actually legit...
    No
  • blackgenmablackgenma Joined: Posts: 181
    hey isnt that fireball, fireball neomax a 3 bar super? i saw 2 EX crack shots, 1 neomax, and 1 normal buster wolf. isnt that 6 bars needed?

    he did 2 ex burn knuckles (2 stock), a neomax (2 stock) and a buster wolf (1 stock). when you activate HD mode, a neomax only cost two stock. otherwise it cost a full HD meter and 3 stock, as you said.
  • Terry BogardeTerry Bogarde Joined: Posts: 259
    he did 2 ex burn knuckles (2 stock), a neomax (2 stock) and a buster wolf (1 stock). when you activate HD mode, a neomax only cost two stock. otherwise it cost a full HD meter and 3 stock, as you said.

    ah i had no idea a neomax needed only 2 bars with HD activated. thanks:)
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