[KOFXIII] Terry Bogard

Reiki.KitoReiki.Kito Joined: Posts: 410
KOF XIII Hyper Guide - Terry Bogard
"KOF XIII Technical Reference" Chapter 4 - pt. 1: Terry Bogard
[URL=' DDTC Combo Video: Terry Bogard - The Lone Wolf']DDTC Combo Video: Terry Bogard - The Lone Wolf[/URL]

Terry "The Lone Wolf" Bogard is a very offensive character with a number of ways to approach an enemy, whether they're blocking or not. With Burn Knuckle and Power wave, he can poke people from afar and continue to apply pressure. His Crackshoot are relatively safe while the D version can put Terry in positive frames depending on if the opponent blocked low or not. Using these moves with his great normals allow you to be very offensive and pressure you're opponent towards a guard crush.

Aside from being a good pressure/guard crushing character, he has the ability to string combos or follow up with practically any normal move. With such versatility, Terry will leave you thinking: "Are you okay?"

Changes from arcade to console
KOF XIII Console Changelog, Part 2: Terry Bogard
  • Crouching A > Crouching C is a chain combo. Can be canceled.
  • Normal Buster Wolf’s (qcf x2+K) dashing speed is now identical to the EX version. But the Invincibility is the same as before.
  • Far D’s recovery time has been reduced.
  • Standing CD’s hit detection lasts a bit longer.
  • Trinity Geyser’s (qcfx2+AC) hitbox has been changed so that it actually hits 3 times.(Translation credit: The Professor)
ok guys. two things: there's an additional console change to Terry that wasn't in the change list snkp gave us. you can max cancel both versions of power geyser. a naked ex power geyser into neomax does crazy high damage. mess with that. the wiki was also updated with that info.

next up: I made a list of all the characters who can dodge crack shoot by either croutching (not blocking), whiffing cr.b, and those who can't do either.

Crouching (not blocking) : Ash, Saiki, Andy Mai, King, Yuri, Kula, Athena, Chin, Leona

Total: 10

Cr.B: Kyo Benimaru, Robert, Kyo, Takuma, Iori, EX Iori, Mature Vice Elizabeth, Duo Lon, K', Kensou

Total: 13

None: Daimon, Terry, Billy, Ryo, Shen, Kim, Hwa, Raiden, Ralf, Clark

Total: 10

Grand total: 23 characters have a method of making crack shoot whiff. with the two upcoming ex characters, that will be a total of 25 characters I am assuming. what a great move.
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Comments

  • meiji_99meiji_99 Joined: Posts: 84
    now terry can do combos QCB A (DC), QCB B, QCFx2 K from anywhere on the screen (bigger damage than EX Rising Tackle).
  • Reiki.KitoReiki.Kito Joined: Posts: 410
    Huh, you're right. Only the EX Buster Wolf hit, but I don't think EX buster wolf hit midscreen after a QCB+B. It usually hit with QCB+D and you only got that in the corner. Maybe you're right, but I'd have to try it. Terry's definitely looking strong even with just basic changes.

    Also, fixed a few notations in the OP.
  • meiji_99meiji_99 Joined: Posts: 84
    @reiki
    that combos now works bro :D, i have a chance to try it at sony gameshow in my country.
  • blackgenmablackgenma Joined: Posts: 180
    here's a video showing off the changes for terry for the console version. it was taken from the Elive discussion with the dream cancel guys. no commentary.

  • GreatsGreats Joined: Posts: 156
    The new Terry looks like he's going to have a very strong offensive game (especially if crack shoot can hit people out of cr.B now which I don't think it can). I'm still sort of skeptical about his neutral game but in that last vid it looks like his far D got buffed so maybe there's some hope.
  • Reiki.KitoReiki.Kito Joined: Posts: 410
    He's still got strong neutral game to the point some characters and people won't know what to do against him. In Arcade, you can (If someone's just stumped), constantly do st.C into D crackshoot. If they block low, you can hit them with st.C. If they block, do it again or do EX powerwave to go for a guard crush.
  • blackgenmablackgenma Joined: Posts: 180
    terry's trial combos. thought I might as well post it here.



    Edit: I heard crack shoot still whiffs on opponents using cr.b. I do not like the sound of that.
  • Reiki.KitoReiki.Kito Joined: Posts: 410
    No, you're right. It'll whiff if someone is just crouching and not blocking or attacking (Which in arcade, it would hit in that regard). In arcade, it would whiff against someone who did a crouch B. Only a few characters can get a huge damaging combo off of crouch B though so that's not a big worry.

    EDIT: Something to note, they did not fix Power Geyser or Trinity Geyser like I thought they did and it does not link completely in the corner.
  • NecrotrophicNecrotrophic キコケン Joined: Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭
    what are Terrys BNBs?
    Xbox live, GFWL and GGPO:Necrotrophic
    Chun Li (SF4, ST, 3s), Akuma (SF4), Ryu (SF4,ST, 3s), Cammy (SF4, ST)
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  • Reiki.KitoReiki.Kito Joined: Posts: 410
    You can do the following as a starter:
    st.C, df+C =>
    st.D, df+C
    d.B, d.A, d.C =>
    d.C, df+C (Need to be close) =>
    d.B, d.A, df+C (Need to be really close) =>

    All of these link to the following follow-ups:
    => qcb+K (Crackshoot)
    => qcf+A/C (Power Wave)
    => qcb, hcf+A/C (Power Geyser)
    => qcfx2+B/D (Buster Wolf)
    => qcb+A (Burn Knuckle) [DC] qcb+K (Crackshoot), d~u +AC (EX Rising Tackle) OR d~u+A/C (Rising Tackle) (#1 BnB) (392-407 dmg)

    d.B x3, st.B is a bit different. That can be followed up with Power Geyser, Buster Wolf, any version of crackshoot, or an EX Burn Knuckle only. Can't do anything else. It's good when you don't have meter. Not so good when you have the meter to do DC. You'll get stock a LOT faster than you'll get drive so doing a super works too.There are some people that do other versions or super cancels. You're free to use them as well, no harm in it. They just result in a soft knockdown anyway.

    => qcb+A (Burn Knuckle) [SC] qcfx2+K (Buster Wolf)(EX too)/ qcb, hcf + P (Power Geyser) (EX too)
    Corner only => qcb+A (Burn Knuckle), [DC] qcb+D (Crackshoot), qcfx2 + BD (EX Buster Wolf) ...delay and optional... qcfx2 + BD (EX Buster Wolf)
    => qcf+A (Power Wave) [SC] qcfx2+K (Buster Wolf)(EX too)/ qcb, hcf + P (Power Geyser) (EX too)

    You can get creative with Terry if you're willing to DC twice or you could just go for an HD combo.
  • blackgenmablackgenma Joined: Posts: 180
    hey Reiko, can you detail on how power geyser doesn't work in the corner properly? in the trail vid I posted, I see terry hitting with power geyser in the corner when the opponent is directly above terry's head. are you talking about ex power geyser?

    the vid also shows how his neomax doesn't hit 3 times in the corner. annoying, but the crack shoot whiffing is what really gets me. Edit: urgh, I wanna bitch about that to Atlus or snk directly. how the hell can they let this crackshoot bs get in when it was already known in the arcade version? terrible, stupid bug
  • Reiki.KitoReiki.Kito Joined: Posts: 410
    Ah, just call me Reiki! And it's the EX version because the regular power geyser only hits once. You see, the EX power geyser hits multiple times, but the hit detection is a set distance I believe. If you're in the corner, the character will unnaturally miss 1 of the last hits. This is the same with the Neomax. In midscreen, everything is okie doke, but in the corner, it's a pain in the butt.

    I sent a bug report to Atlus, but it's kind of complicated. They don't have any programmers there so they have to forward it to SNKP, but that doesn't mean some of the DC people haven't already mentioned this to them. I would have to say they are aware, but did not act. It's good to show some public discontent; just don't let it spoil it over into saying XIII or Terry in general is bad. He's not. Just doing what you want to do isn't easy at all.

    EDIT:
    So today I was trying the infamous Trial #5. That crap's not easy, but I learned a new skill. You can tiger knee with Terry by doing. dn.gif db.gif bk.gif ub.gif up.gif ~delay~ a.gif and he'll do rising tackle. This is how I learned how to beat Terry's Rising tackle [SC] Power Geyser combo. I believe you could do the same thing with Buster wolf just the other way.

    So, new tech! You can tiger knee charge moves!

    EDIT:

    So found something that I'm not sure was in Arcade version or not.

    So, if you do EX Power Geyser in the corner, you get a free Regular or EX Buster Wolf. I'm pretty sure the 2nd hit of the EX buster wolf gives anywhere juggle properties, but the 3rd hit doesn't. I know, dumb.

    Also, on counter hit, regular Power Geyser gives anywhere juggle properties. You can get a free buster wolf off it.

    So, a corner combo for three stock 1 drive in the corner (Ugh, why do all Terry's moves push you to the corner, but he does crappy damage there....) is:

    st.C, df+C, qcb+A, qcb+D, qcb hcf+AC (EX Power Geyser), qcfX2 A/C or AC (Either EX or regular Buster Wolf). Regular does 551 dmg, EX does 656 dmg. Not all the hits on Buster wolf hit in the corner when you EX it so the regular one is your best choice.

    Can also do st.D for more damage and probably does even more in with a hop in attached to it.

    2 stock
    Power geyser on counter hit, Buster Wolf (442 dmg)
    Power Geyser on counter hit, EX Buster wolf (562 dmg)
  • Bushin ClanBushin Clan Say it with ya Chest! Joined: Posts: 409
    KOF XIII Hyper Guide - Terry Bogard
    "KOF XIII Technical Reference" Chapter 4 - pt. 1: Terry Bogard
    [URL=' DDTC Combo Video: Terry Bogard - The Lone Wolf']DDTC Combo Video: Terry Bogard - The Lone Wolf[/URL]

    Terry "The Lone Wolf" Bogard is a very offensive character with a number of ways to approach an enemy, whether they're blocking or not. With Burn Knuckle and Power wave, he can poke people from afar and continue to apply pressure. His Crackshoot are relatively safe while the D version can put Terry in positive frames depending on if the opponent blocked low or not. Using these moves with his great normals allow you to be very offensive and pressure you're opponent towards a guard crush.

    Aside from being a good pressure/guard crushing character, he has the ability to string combos or follow up with practically any normal move. With such versatility, Terry will leave you thinking: "Are you okay?"

    Changes from arcade to console
    KOF XIII Console Changelog, Part 2: Terry Bogard
    • Crouching A > Crouching C is a chain combo. Can be canceled.
    • Normal Buster Wolf’s (qcf x2+K) dashing speed is now identical to the EX version. But the Invincibility is the same as before.
    • Far D’s recovery time has been reduced.
    • Standing CD’s hit detection lasts a bit longer.
    • Trinity Geyser’s (qcfx2+AC) hitbox has been changed so that it actually hits 3 times.(Translation credit: The Professor)

    Okay so it seems you a true Buster Wolf pro my question to you is please tell me that a rising tackle cancelling into a power Geyser is not the only way to use Geyser in a combination. The reason I'm asking is because I'm a rookie in King of Fighters XIII have not played Bogard since Capcom Vs SNK 2 or Mark of The Wolves (shout out to Rock Howard btw he was a beast) are there other ways to use Geyser in a combo?, The combination that I mentioned above is too much tight timing. Thanks for the help if any.
  • Mr. XMr. X Non Stop ∞ Climax Joined: Posts: 20,004 ✭✭✭
    I figured out a shortcut for the rising tackle into power geyser

    :d::db::b::ub::u: [Punch] :d::df::f: [Punch]
    "You are all just as bad as the people you hate. You're only interested in characters based on tears." - Since1717
    NO STREAM = DEAD GAME
    PSN: X_the_Genius | GGPO: Mr X | Skype: MisterEcks
  • blackgenmablackgenma Joined: Posts: 180
    So I found out crackshoot whiffing on characters who are crouching and not blocking is character specific. characters that I know who fall under this catagory: Saiki (and I'm guessing Ash) as far as other characters go, I didn't test it. we should make a list of this.
  • LabanLaban KOF98 Player Joined: Posts: 1,382 ✭✭✭✭
    So I found out crackshoot whiffing on characters who are crouching and not blocking is character specific. characters that I know who fall under this catagory: Saiki (and I'm guessing Ash) as far as other characters go, I didn't test it. we should make a list of this.
    I think any character that's not fat could either crouch or cr.B under D Crackshoot at the least then go into HD mode. I know Billy gets punished for trying cr.B but he could AA cr.C in-between then get counter hit and cancel into f.A for an additional hit. Needs more testing for sure. I generally don't like to block string into Crackshoot anyways.
  • K2KK2K K2K..... What else? Joined: Posts: 2
    Hi guys! I'm a freshblood looking for some intel'... I'm doing the mission mode of terry and i figured out some of his trick but there's one that make me really wonder how to do it consistently....
    How do you cancel a burn knuckle by a rising tackle ?
    Thanks for your help.... And sorry for my english... Lol!
    Good training !
  • Reiki.KitoReiki.Kito Joined: Posts: 410
    Okay so it seems you a true Buster Wolf pro my question to you is please tell me that a rising tackle cancelling into a power Geyser is not the only way to use Geyser in a combination. The reason I'm asking is because I'm a rookie in King of Fighters XIII have not played Bogard since Capcom Vs SNK 2 or Mark of The Wolves (shout out to Rock Howard btw he was a beast) are there other ways to use Geyser in a combo?, The combination that I mentioned above is too much tight timing. Thanks for the help if any.

    Yo! Welcome to the Terry Bogard thread. To answer your question, you can actually Super Cancel off of Burn Knuckle as well. You can do EX Power Geyser from a D Crackshoot that juggles in the corner or in an HD Combo, but that's a bit more advanced. So your optimal means of super cancelling is usually Burn Knuckle. You got to do it a little faster, but it's a crap ton easier than doing. So, say you run this set-up: st.C, df+C, qcb+A (Burn Knuckle) => Right after that, quickly do qcb hcf+P and you'll get a Power Geyser. Beware, you need to cancel it real early because if you wait too long, the enemy is going to hit the ground and you'll miss. Usually does close to 400 damage. Give it a shot!

    Also, @Black Genma: I added your findings to the top! Let me know what you gather.
    Hi guys! I'm a freshblood looking for some intel'... I'm doing the mission mode of terry and i figured out some of his trick but there's one that make me really wonder how to do it consistently....
    How do you cancel a burn knuckle by a rising tackle ?
    Thanks for your help.... And sorry for my english... Lol!
    Good training !



    So, the way you do that is by holding down the moment you input/do the move for Burn Knuckle (qcb+P). After atleast 1 second, hold up and you should drive cancel into Rising Tackle. You can start charging even before the move starts by buffering the move so just do it real fast :-D
  • K2KK2K K2K..... What else? Joined: Posts: 2
    Thanks for the reply Reiki! I'll be faster and about the power geyser canceling a rising tackle i figured out the same almost the same motion that Mr.X posted... But is it the exact motion? I feel like sometimes the Motion i do is shortest and the power geyser happens...
    So guys is there a shortcut ? What's your way to do it consistently? Thanks guys!
    Train hard! Lol
  • Mr. XMr. X Non Stop ∞ Climax Joined: Posts: 20,004 ✭✭✭
    Thanks for the reply Reiki! I'll be faster and about the power geyser canceling a rising tackle i figured out the same almost the same motion that Mr.X posted... But is it the exact motion? I feel like sometimes the Motion i do is shortest and the power geyser happens...
    So guys is there a shortcut ? What's your way to do it consistently? Thanks guys!
    Train hard! Lol
    If the motion works, it works lol.
    "You are all just as bad as the people you hate. You're only interested in characters based on tears." - Since1717
    NO STREAM = DEAD GAME
    PSN: X_the_Genius | GGPO: Mr X | Skype: MisterEcks
  • blackgenmablackgenma Joined: Posts: 180
    I can make a list of characters who make crack shoot whiff while crouching and not blocking, and also characters who are whiffing crouching b to make the move whiff, but it might take me a few days. although I own the game, I don't exactly have access to an xbox at the moment, so be patient on that.

    with that out of the way, time to bitch about the game's strict inputs and my shitty execution. I can't do some of terry's most basic combos as consistently and easily as I'd like with a pad. cl. standing c into 3c is easy enough, but canceling 3c into special moves is a hella strict for some moves. you have to input the move you want to cance intol just as the 3c hits, and when it comes to canceling into power geyser on pad, I rage.
  • Reiki.KitoReiki.Kito Joined: Posts: 410
    So, just to be clear on some things:

    Terry's st.C, df+C is a usual BnB starter that I've listed, but I didn't mention something very important. When you do df+C, the cancel window is very, very small. You have to buffer the next special move or you'll go into recovery frames for df+C really fast. This is important because sometimes you should just do st.C into your special move because it's easier. Damage is great, but so is not dropping anything!
  • blackgenmablackgenma Joined: Posts: 180
    I noticed the wiki mentioned recently that you can't combo st.C, df+C qcb+B on crouching opponents. I don't know if df+c pushes crouching opponents too far or doesn't do enough hit stun, but this certainly isn't the case with cr.B, cr.A, cr.C qcb+B. despite the crack shoot not hitting saiki when he's not blocking and crouching, the move will always connect when he's in hitstun. you don't have to worry about the move whiffing in combos.

    so....I'm gonna remove that little bit from the wiki for now. I'll test out the st.C, df+C combo thoroughly when I get the chance and modify it accordingly.
  • Bushin ClanBushin Clan Say it with ya Chest! Joined: Posts: 409
    Yo! Welcome to the Terry Bogard thread. To answer your question, you can actually Super Cancel off of Burn Knuckle as well. You can do EX Power Geyser from a D Crackshoot that juggles in the corner or in an HD Combo, but that's a bit more advanced. So your optimal means of super cancelling is usually Burn Knuckle. You got to do it a little faster, but it's a crap ton easier than doing. So, say you run this set-up: st.C, df+C, qcb+A (Burn Knuckle) => Right after that, quickly do qcb hcf+P and you'll get a Power Geyser. Beware, you need to cancel it real early because if you wait too long, the enemy is going to hit the ground and you'll miss. Usually does close to 400 damage. Give it a shot!

    Also, @Black Genma: I added your findings to the top! Let me know what you gather.





    So, the way you do that is by holding down the moment you input/do the move for Burn Knuckle (qcb+P). After atleast 1 second, hold up and you should drive cancel into Rising Tackle. You can start charging even before the move starts by buffering the move so just do it real fast :-D
    Yo Reiki Bogard...Thanks for the reply Burn K into Power G works like a charm it seems as if the missions just wants players to get use to cancels but some of them with Rising T into Power G seems really tight the one you've mentioned to me gave me more of a window and less likely to drop that combo! Keep this thread going for Bogard I'll have my eye on this thread. Thanks again.
  • SF-Zero2SF-Zero2 Pronounced AlphaZero Joined: Posts: 1,373
    Any ways to combo into an EX Power Wave?
  • blackgenmablackgenma Joined: Posts: 180
    Any ways to combo into an EX Power Wave?

    that move's start up is extremely slow, so far, I haven't found a way.
  • Bushin ClanBushin Clan Say it with ya Chest! Joined: Posts: 409
    Any ways to combo into an EX Power Wave?
    So whats good everyone. You all may have found this out already if not then this is for anyone reading this thread started by our own Reiki- then I'll pass what little I know so far about our boy T. Bogard so far. If anyone is looking for a bread and butter combo during a drive which I'll get to here's what you can do: his standing strong close in basically combos into everything including, strong power wave except EX Power Wave, low burning knuckle, also power geysers any level, dual bang, busta wolf, but remember you gotta pull it off during his standing strong (the one where he hits you twice) also standing strong close in into a foward lp is a good three hit combination what that being said reapeat that process then go into drive mode repeat the three hit combination into low buring knuckle, into low crack shoot into whatever other cancels you may like or have done time and time again. But my main point is this is alot easier with a bigger window to pull off combo's and specials, the only hard part is just getting close in. Now we all know that you can combo into standing strong but the seconds gets shorter and shorter but you still have enough time to go into drive mode or if you like whatever other options you like to get into with Terry vs doing it the way the missions want you. I hope this helps. Thanks!
  • Da KnutDa Knut Joined: Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭
    that move's start up is extremely slow, so far, I haven't found a way.

    So how and when to use it?
  • SF-Zero2SF-Zero2 Pronounced AlphaZero Joined: Posts: 1,373
    So how and when to use it?

    I've been using it when I'm getting my opponent towards the corner, countering reckless pokes and fireballs. It hits 3 times, negates other fireballs and still hits 3 times while doing it(Kyo,Kensou), and it seems to be a decent combo starter because you can pretty much do anything you want while it's connecting, and it connects for while.
  • blackgenmablackgenma Joined: Posts: 180
    exactly what SF-Zero2 says. you want to chase the ex power wave after launching it; its both a zoning and rush down tool in one, since it recovers very quickly. use stuff like crack shoot or burn knuckle with it if you just want to set up strong line of zoning. I'm pretty sure you can also shoot another power wave while the ex is on screen, but that doesn't have much application.
  • Bushin ClanBushin Clan Say it with ya Chest! Joined: Posts: 409
    So how and when to use it?
    I usually use EX Wave if I scored a knocked down close range, once hit, I rush him/her down with a combo, Busta Wolf or Geyeser, but usually I try to combo once hit.
  • Da KnutDa Knut Joined: Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭
  • BogardBogard Joined: Posts: 219
    So, just to be clear on some things:

    Terry's st.C, df+C is a usual BnB starter that I've listed, but I didn't mention something very important. When you do df+C, the cancel window is very, very small. You have to buffer the next special move or you'll go into recovery frames for df+C really fast. This is important because sometimes you should just do st.C into your special move because it's easier. Damage is great, but so is not dropping anything!


    I noticed this, now I know I wasn't drunk when I was testing it. Thanks.
    My mind tactics are better than your stupid combos...
    F#ck You and DiE! ~Steven Seagal -
    Old School, 30+ years of gaming.
  • blackgenmablackgenma Joined: Posts: 180
    ok guys. two things: there's an additional console change to Terry that wasn't in the change list snkp gave us. you can max cancel both versions of power geyser. a naked ex power geyser into neomax does crazy high damage. mess with that. the wiki was also updated with that info.

    next up: I made a list of all the characters who can dodge crack shoot by either croutching (not blocking), whiffing cr.b, and those who can't do either.

    Crouching (not blocking) : Ash, Saiki, Andy Mai, King, Yuri, Kula, Athena, Chin, Leona

    Total: 10

    Cr.B: Kyo Benimaru, Robert, Joe, Takuma, Iori, EX Iori, Mature Vice Elizabeth, Duo Lon, K', Kensou

    Total: 13

    None: Daimon, Terry, Billy, Ryo, Shen, Kim, Hwa, Raiden, Ralf, Clark

    Total: 10

    Grand total: 23 characters have a method of making crack shoot whiff. with the two upcoming ex characters, that will be a total of 25 characters I am assuming. what a great move.
  • LabanLaban KOF98 Player Joined: Posts: 1,382 ✭✭✭✭
    ok guys. two things: there's an additional console change to Terry that wasn't in the change list snkp gave us. you can max cancel both versions of power geyser. a naked ex power geyser into neomax does crazy high damage. mess with that. the wiki was also updated with that info.

    next up: I made a list of all the characters who can dodge crack shoot by either croutching (not blocking), whiffing cr.b, and those who can't do either.

    Crouching (not blocking) : Ash, Saiki, Andy Mai, King, Yuri, Kula, Athena, Chin, Leona

    Total: 10

    Cr.B: Kyo Benimaru, Robert, Kyo, Takuma, Iori, EX Iori, Mature Vice Elizabeth, Duo Lon, K', Kensou

    Total: 13

    None: Daimon, Terry, Billy, Ryo, Shen, Kim, Hwa, Raiden, Ralf, Clark

    Total: 10

    Grand total: 23 characters have a method of making crack shoot whiff. what a great move.
    Yeah, still better than what it was in old games. I'm still very adverse to using Crackshoot as a pressure move and I think it's a brainless thing to do. So pretty much doing a Crackshoot at the end of attack strings usually means you want to safely chip the opponent but means you're willing to end your offensive momentum to do so (while there are still risks of certain characters beating it.) That means B Crackshoot is the option to go to ensure full safety, but there is no frametrap chance anymore, especially against characters with fast cl.C or command throws.

    I'd rather stick to A version Power Waving and baiting out guard rolls in my attack strings while keeping momentum.
  • blackgenmablackgenma Joined: Posts: 180
    Yeah, still better than what it was in old games. I'm still very adverse to using Crackshoot as a pressure move and I think it's a brainless thing to do. So pretty much doing a Crackshoot at the end of attack strings usually means you want to safely chip the opponent but means you're willing to end your offensive momentum to do so (while there are still risks of certain characters beating it.) That means B Crackshoot is the option to go to ensure full safety, but there is no frametrap chance anymore, especially against characters with fast cl.C or command throws.

    I'd rather stick to A version Power Waving and baiting out guard rolls in my attack strings while keeping momentum.

    a few questions.

    what do you mean that you "lose momentum" when you do a crack shoot in a block string to pressure? how does crack shoot lose momentum while power wave doesn't (besides power wave being more reliable and generally safer). how do you catch a roll if your baiting with powerwave in block strings? can you provide an example?

    you mention that there's not frame trap "anymore". are you referring to the previous versions of terry in older kof like 98 and 2k2, or the arcade version of XIII?

    you say crack shoot is better than it was in the old games, but how so? just wondering.

    Edit: I was also testing out the invincibility of terry's moves. the only moves that have invincibility for sure, in order of more to less, are : C rising tackle, and ex rising tackle. I don't know if ex buster wolf has any start up invincibility, or ex power geyser, since they come out so damn fast it was hard to counter. I don't remember if ex buster wolf was stuffed (I need to test it more honestly) but I at least know if you hit terry out of ex power geyser, he will at least always trade with you in most scenarios, since his geysers come out even if you hit him.

    but as far as invincible start up goes, C rising tackle has tons of invincible frames. EX version of the move has less so, but the move comes out faster than C. regular buster wolf MAY have some incicibility, but it is either my imagination, or it has VERY few invincible frames.
  • LabanLaban KOF98 Player Joined: Posts: 1,382 ✭✭✭✭
    a few questions.

    what do you mean that you "lose momentum" when you do a crack shoot in a block string to pressure? how does crack shoot lose momentum while power wave doesn't (besides power wave being more reliable and generally safer). how do you catch a roll if your baiting with powerwave in block strings? can you provide an example?

    you mention that there's not frame trap "anymore". are you referring to the previous versions of terry in older kof like 98 and 2k2, or the arcade version of XIII?

    you say crack shoot is better than it was in the old games, but how so? just wondering.

    Edit: I was also testing out the invincibility of terry's moves. the only moves that have invincibility for sure, in order of more to less, are : C rising tackle, and ex rising tackle. I don't know if ex buster wolf has any start up invincibility, or ex power geyser, since they come out so damn fast it was hard to counter. I don't remember if ex buster wolf was stuffed (I need to test it more honestly) but I at least know if you hit terry out of ex power geyser, he will at least always trade with you in most scenarios, since his geysers come out even if you hit him.

    but as far as invincible start up goes, C rising tackle has tons of invincible frames. EX version of the move has less so, but the move comes out faster than C. regular buster wolf MAY have some incicibility, but it is either my imagination, or it has VERY few invincible frames.
    Well I interpret it this way (maybe it's just an old way of thinking), but typically when Terry does Crack Shoot, he's left in negative frames. Unless the opponent is crouch blocking against a D ver. Crackshoot to give Terry true frame advantage to frame trap, Terry will lose if he tries to cl.C after a blocked Crackshoot. B version has too much frame disadvantage on stand and crouch block and will lose to a true reversal cl.C/D. D version is better but has too many gaps where it could either be countered or on stand block he would still lose due to frame disadvantage. What's good about the move though is that if someone guard rolls his blockstring at the moment of the 2-in-1, he moves forward outside of punishing range. Guard rolling a Power Wave pretty much guarantees a punish for the opponent.

    The reason why I prefer power wave on block is that I'm left more or less at a neutral position where anything can go for Terry. Since Terry can poke the opponent outside of most character's ranges with st.B, being at neutral after a power wave is at his advantage. Terry after Crack Shoot either has to be lucky, or do a gimmick such as blocked Crack Shoot > C Rising Tackle to hit someone out of a reversal cl.C that would otherwise limit Terry's advancement and be put in reversal of momentum.

    So when it comes to baiting out rolls, I don't think Terry needs to commit to Crack Shoot that much. Terry could do attack strings such as st.B pressure that cancels into Power Wave, or tipping with st.B and then tipping with the sweep that cancels into Power Wave, or do any sort of blockstring into Power Wave. Terry could always safely mix up an attack string with a st.A to anti-air hops or do a sweep xx df.C to doubley cover space. So one of the better options to really punish Terry for his attrition is to make use of a good roll or guard roll; but, that is still a huge risk that Terry could just wait out for and either punish a roll or meaty and repressure an opponent after a guard roll. So in all these situations, Terry never gives up the pace and maintains his own without getting into the hairy mess after Crack Shoot that could either give or give up the advantage for Terry. It's more solid and reliable.

    The reason why I say Crack Shoot is better in this game than most of the older games is that it actually hits more crouchers now than in the past. It used to be mainly a weird anti-air/air-to-air attack in really specific situations. I mainly used it to cancel from df.C anti-air attempts to help better my position after the hit. Otherwise, it didn't have much application since everything else did what it did but better. Now in KOF XIII, his moves (along with many other characters) are designed with better "intent." Burn Knuckle is no longer the safe go to, braindead pressure move for combos and blockstrings. The player has to commit to a Burn Knuckle and make sure it hits. Crack Shoot is there for a safe pressure move that pretty much does all and is safe, but you lose frame advantage and momentum when used but has a chance of pressuring again if the opponent doesn't block it correctly or punish it accordingly. Power Wave is the string ender that has the risk of losing to a guard roll but has the best position to continue pressure more consistently than compared to Burn Knuckle and Crack Shoot.

    So with Terry, his moveset and pressure is done with a certain intent and choices have to be made when stringing with him. You commit to something but there is always another choice that has another pro but a different con. For me, I'd rather keep doing Power Waves until someone gets antsy to guard roll and wait for them to mess up and waste a bar rather than me committing to a more or less safe Crack Shoot but ending my pace and momentum.

    In regards to invincibility, most level 1 supers in KOF don't have it. So I doubt Buster Wolf has invulnerability unless you use the EX Version, which does have a good degree of it. Normal Buster Wolf is mainly for combos or I guess punishing something further out if Terry can't run in there on time. I think EX Burn Knuckle might be faster for that application though, not so sure. Needs more testing.

    But yeah to conclude, although Crack Shoot has gotten better for pressuring, I still think ultimately ending a blockstring with it each time is not in good fashion and that Power Wave is a better option. It's just that the player has to play between the usages of both Crack Shoot and Power Wave and understand the risks and what is truly gained by doing that move.
  • Reiki.KitoReiki.Kito Joined: Posts: 410
    B.Genma, I've posted your information on the original post. Thanks for testing that out! Even if crack shoot is considered "brainless", it's still an advantage that can lead to a guard crush if they block or a combo if they don't. I think it's an option to consider although switching up your strings to keep opponent's guessing how to respond works too.

    In the end, how you want to setup your opponent is up to you, but it's always a good thing to think of what you're capable of.
  • blackgenmablackgenma Joined: Posts: 180
    because its on the first post, I figured I should mentions that I made a small typo for the crack shoot list. on the cr.b row, I put kyo on there twice. the second kyo is actually supposed to be Joe. I fixed it on my original post.

    and here's something I was pondering about while watching the latest ranbats stream. do you guys think burn knuckle is any good at catching predictable jumps/hops? I've always used it to zone in that matter, and I have had some success. I know its not really safe to use naked burn knuckles on grounded opponents unless properly spaced, and the risk reward ratio is not in your favor either (unless you willing to burn up meter to convert to bigger damage) but I feel that burn knuckle can be a great spacing and zoning tool when used naked correctly. for example: I think there's a lot of potential to catch players hoping over ex power waves with burn knuckle. a bit of theory fighter there, and needs more testing, but its something to think about.

    also, how does his D crackshoot hold up as an antiair zoning tool? I liked using it in the garou games for such a purpose.
  • VersatileBJN007VersatileBJN007 Joined: Posts: 382
    XBL tag: L7 Zero Cool

    USF4: Akuma (Oni/Elena)
    P4A2: Undecided
  • Reiki.KitoReiki.Kito Joined: Posts: 410
    Suggestive! Even if tier lists exist, they're based on opinion and ease. There's plenty we don't know about and plenty to learn and use. It might also mean we have to approach Terry in a different perspective. Instead of digging for long damaging combos from mix-ups and overheads, maybe we should be forcing guard crush scenarios or crossups. He has a great crossup in his D and he has some ways to break someone's guard in one go. I know of one, but the second/third variations I'm still working out to see if they work.
  • LabanLaban KOF98 Player Joined: Posts: 1,382 ✭✭✭✭
    I'm running Terry point on my main team. I got the set ups. I'm going back to my roots.

    People are sleeping on meterless Terry.
  • TerrastormTerrastorm Joined: Posts: 263
    Yes, because one person's opinion is absolute...
    Even so, low tier in this game is a lot different than low tier in marvel or even street fighter. Everyone can really kill you.
  • blackgenmablackgenma Joined: Posts: 180
    as for as lowest goes, I think its an exaggeration. I mean, he does good damage and has a wide range of tools, and he's got solid normals. his only real problems are crack shoot not being as good as it could be (I wish it was safer as a pressure tool) and opening the opponent up is not easy when you only have one overhead that costs bar and doesn't lead into a combo.

    either way, I don't play terry because I think he's top tier, but an unbiased assessment leads me to seriously question what criteria dun basing him being he weakest. it can't seriously be "match-up" numbers, because terry doesn't get dominated by half the cast. a more realistic position would be based on what he does well and how effective he is compared to others. he may be overshadowed by some in the cast, and he could be low, but seriously doubt he's bottom. that's a little ridiculous.
    I'm running Terry point on my main team. I got the set ups. I'm going back to my roots.

    People are sleeping on meterless Terry.

    how does one play meter-less terry effectively?

    reveal your secrets to me.....
  • Bushin ClanBushin Clan Say it with ya Chest! Joined: Posts: 409
    as for as lowest goes, I think its an exaggeration. I mean, he does good damage and has a wide range of tools, and he's got solid normals. his only real problems are crack shoot not being as good as it could be (I wish it was safer as a pressure tool) and opening the opponent up is not easy when you only have one overhead that costs bar and doesn't lead into a combo.

    either way, I don't play terry because I think he's top tier, but an unbiased assessment leads me to seriously question what criteria dun basing him being he weakest. it can't seriously be "match-up" numbers, because terry doesn't get dominated by half the cast. a more realistic position would be based on what he does well and how effective he is compared to others. he may be overshadowed by some in the cast, and he could be low, but seriously doubt he's bottom. that's a little ridiculous.



    how does one play meter-less terry effectively?

    reveal your secrets to me.....
    I agree with Blackgenma I recenty got back with T. Bogard. And I must say he's maybe the best Character outside of King. But T. Bogard has alot of good high stun moves that takes alot of damage and doesn't take that much of meter. I usually try to finish everything up with strong rising tackle to go for stuns bar level rising tackle does damage but doesn't add to stun. I would would highly suggest getting use to his crouching combos lk, lp, cr db-hp into low burning knuckle, it builds meter quick and good range as well. His guard combo damge is great too. I just think tier listing is overrated for now it's still too early to tell.
  • Reiki.KitoReiki.Kito Joined: Posts: 410
    Been a bit, everyone! Back from SCR and saw a lot of interesting stuff!

    Something I noticed that Nocturnal did to me in a match (So can't take any credit for this what so ever). After a regular combo midscreen, st.C, df+C, qcf+A [DC] qcb+B .... He did st.B and then waited to throw out a power wave. The st.B resets me to land on my feet. If timed properly, you could put someone in block stun as they're landing or maybe even make them land on it.

    I don't understand it because Nocturnal developed it, not me. However, I think it's worth a shot with Terry for some midscreen reassurance without spending meter.

    EDIT: Messed up the notation earlier so I fixed it.
  • blackgenmablackgenma Joined: Posts: 180
    Something I noticed that Nocturnal did to me in a match (So can't take any credit for this what so ever). After a regular combo midscreen, st.C, df+C, [DC] qcb+B .... He did st.B and then waited to throw out a power wave.

    are you missing an input there? because df+C, qcb+B isn't a drive cancel. did you mean st.C df+C, qcb+A, [DC] qcb+B?
  • Reiki.KitoReiki.Kito Joined: Posts: 410
    Yes, forgot to put in Burn Knuckle
  • blackgenmablackgenma Joined: Posts: 180
    OK! I found some interesting things on terry! ok so here's a list.

    1) C power wave has projectile absorption. it even absorbs EX projectiles. so if you get it out and your in range, this thing will eat you opponents ex projectile and hit them. in short, if you were wondering what use this gimp little projectile has over A version; it absorbs projectiles

    3) I've confirm that both versions of buster wolf travel faster than ex burn knuckle. I used two methods to test this out. I can't find any evidence that ex buster wolf is faster than regular buster wolf though.

    Wiki has been updated with this info.

    Edit: had something dumb and wrong, so I removed it
  • Reiki.KitoReiki.Kito Joined: Posts: 410
    OK! I found some interesting things on terry! ok so here's a list.

    1) C power wave has projectile absorption. it even absorbs EX projectiles. so if you get it out and your in range, this thing will eat you opponents ex projectile and hit them. in short, if you were wondering what use this gimp little projectile has over A version; it absorbs projectiles

    3) I've confirm that both versions of buster wolf travel faster than ex burn knuckle. I used two methods to test this out. I can't find any evidence that ex buster wolf is faster than regular buster wolf though.

    Wiki has been updated with this info.

    Edit: had something dumb and wrong, so I removed it

    Number 1 wasn't on the wiki? Yea, it can eat fireballs. It's a bit slower though so you have to anticipate someone's going to do it. The range is also a bit smaller. Once you get the spacing right, you can punish fireballs and score a soft knockdown when it hits.

    The only issues with it are as I mentioned before: It comes out slower and slower recovery as well as the short reach. At the range it will reliably hit, no one should be throwing fireballs.

    For number 3, I did not know that. I figure that means you should punish people with Buster Wolf instead of Ex Burn Knuckle.
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