Guy Tutorial for beginners/intermediates - what and how to do - essential basics

Pedro MarquesPedro Marques I gotta work on my tutorial!Joined: Posts: 214
This thread is meant for people who have just started using Guy, or people who have been playing him but still do not know how to play him in a solid way. It is a general how-to-when-to thread for beginners and intermediates, providing information for players who want to grow in gameplay with Guy. If you like Guy's style but you are tired of getting raped by Dragon Punch scrubs, this is the place for you!
Here you will find information that will help you on your execution, defense, combos, pressure, mix-up game, mind games, punishing game and hit confirming. This thread does not talk about match-up stuff, it goes up to right before character specific knowledge, though I do deal with some character specific information here.
I divided the info in topics, and anyone is more than welcome to add/criticize info to any topics of this thread. Just post or contact me!
Be sure to toggle the spoilers, as the main information is inside.
Thanks to...
I would like to especially thank str[e]ak for all his help with the editing, elaborating and formatting of this thread, and for all he has done on behalf of Guy community, honestly you are the best man!
Also, I would like to thank Blooddrunk, for all his hard work answering loads of posts throughout all threads of our little Guy section, and especially for helping me to think about the structure of this ultimate tutorial for beginners/intermediates.
Furthermore, I would also like to express my gratitude to Danonino, Brunaleski and IZIEIRIOI, for all their posts, questions and added info, especially in my former thread. Keep up the good work guys!
Also, I would also like to thank AlboShinobi for his incredible work at his Bushin Frame Trap/Counter Hit setups thread, and xIROCx for all he has done for us at the bait set -up thread (Profound Punishment!). In my opinion, both of these threads should without question be sticky.
Finally, I would like to say many thanks to SPECTERLIGHT, for taking his time to review and correct all the many English mistakes I made throughout this thread. Thanks teacher! xD
General Terminology:

cl. = Close Standing
st. = Far Standing
cr. = Crouching
nj. = Neutral Jumping
j. = Jumping
d. = Down Direction
b. = Backward Direction
f. = Forward Direction
df. = Down-Forward Direction
LP = Jab
MP = Strong
HP = Fierce
LK = Short
MK = Forward
HK = Roundhouse
P = Any Punch Button
2P = Any Two Punch Buttons
3P = Three Punch Buttons
K = Any Kick Button
2K = Any Two Kick Buttons
3K = Three Kick Buttons
QCF = Quarter Circle Forward
QCB = Quarter Circle Back
HCB = Half Circle Back

About Guy
Guy is certainly not an easy character to master. Although he looks like he is one of those in-your-face characters, who applies pressure all the time and is all about combos and offense, in a higher level he does not work that way all the time. He has the floppiest jump in the game, he does not have the best footsies of the cast, although his far :mp:and far :mk:are good pokes. His main anti-airs (cr. :mp:, far st.:hk:, and :qcf::uf::p:) are hard to time, and his throw range and walking speed suck (at least until before 2012 version upload- UPDATE: They still suck).
He has no fireballs and no Dragon Punch, since his EX BSK :qcb: :2k:, which should be his anti-air + get-out-off-me move is not FADC cancelable (focus attack dash cancel, executed by pressing/ holding :mp:+:mk: > :f::f:or :b::b:). On top of that, it may not hit all hits depending on where your opponent is and the timing you executed it. Lastly, he has many spaces between his normal moves on block strings, which makes him an easy prey for reversals.
As you can see, with Guy you cannot apply reckless pressure on your opponent all the time, for you will eat a reversal, and it is hard to be on defense too, since you can't just Dragon Punch and FADC all your problems away. So if you want to play Guy, what should you be aiming for? How to approach in a safer way? How to deal damage when there are openings, and before that, how to create those openings?
These are some of the questions we try to answer in this thread. Keep in mind that Guy is not the safest character to apply pressure with in the game, and he is not easy to use execution wise.
So you are going to need lots of practice, as his combos and safe block strings aren't easy to perform, and a lot of patience. Guy is more than anything a punishing character, so you should be pretending to apply reckless pressure, while you are baiting moves out of your opponent. And when you actually are applying pressure, you should do it safely. Instead of jumping in like crazy at your opponent, you should be waiting for him to do something so you can act based on his action. You have to be sharp on execution, and know what to use to punish what, always getting the best damage out of each situation.
This more calm and silent stance is what makes Guy strong, this is, my friend, the way of Bushin Ryu.
Useful YouTube Channels (real match examples, tutorials, option selects, mix-up strategies, set-ups, etc.)
My channel (Player from Japan, tutorials, set ups, safe jumps, option selects and fight examples)
Kiryu Tsukimiya (high level well known Japanese player)
Nox2 (Professional player from Kuwait)
Legendary Otaku (Professional player from Japan, just a single 1 hour video though)
str[e]ak (Player from the U.S., safe jumps, mix-ups, set-ups and fight examples)
obey325 (Player from the U.S., set-ups, mix-ups, tutorials and fight examples)
popnmusic (Some videos on mix-ups and set-ups)
elwoodblues85 (Player from Europe, fight examples)
N O Geaux Getta (Player from the U.S., fight examples)
Shin-Akuma (Former Xbox ranked match replay uploader)
Ov3rheadGreg (Xbox ranked match replay uploader)
YogaFlame24 (Xbox ranked match replay uploader)
VesperArcade (SSF4 Tutorials)
Useful threads
Way fo the Sneakers V2.0: AE hitbox Data, Damage & Stun Values, Combos. Ultimate thread for Guy's frame data and hit box data on AE. Here you can find more links to other useful threads. Started by str[e]ak, in 2011/08/09.
SSF4 AE Guy Matchup Thread Index. Here you can find and index to go straight to some character specific thread, when you need info on a match-up basis. Started by str[e]ak, in 2011/06/13.
Bushin Frame Trap/Counter Hit setups. This thread is the main place to look for counter-hit setups (character especific or not). Started by AlboShinobi in 2010/12/28.
Profound Punishment!. If you want to know how to punish your opponents, how to bait them into making mistakes and what to use to punish what (character specific or not), this is the thread for you. Started by trag in 2010/04/30.
Safe Jumps and Cross Ups. This thread is still underdeveloped, but still, it should be the place where you can find safe jump setups after an untechable knockdown, for further wakeup pressure. Started by Zyx Whitewind, in 2010/09/11.
Guy for beginners/intermidiates - pressure examples and execution/ hit confirming training. My former thread on hit confirming. Started in 2011/09/06.
Controller and Execution - Plinking and Double-tapping
About the controller you should use, if you plan on playing Guy for real, and I think this also applies for any other character, I have to be honest...you cannot use a pad anymore. The execution on a stick is much better and you have more freedom on the buttons as well. Only using fighting sticks are you able plink, double tap, piano and etc. For Guy's links (for learning what links, chains and combos are, mind VesperArcade tutorial chapter 7), plinking and double tapping are indispensable.
So in this thread I will be considering that people are using a fighting stick. About sticks, mind VesperArcade tutorial chapter 2 and chapter 3.
About plinking
Guy's most basic link is the link from a cr. :lp: or cr. :lk: into a target combo :mp:>:hp:. It does not matter if you executed one cr.:lp:/cr. :lk:, or two or even three. That link is going to be big part of your game, and it is not exactly an easy one to perform.
On block, this is not a safe link. In other words, when you perform a target combo after a cr.:lp:/cr. :lk: and your opponent is blocking, he can hit you with a reversal move (dragon punch, headbutt, command grab) in the space between the crouching move and the first st.:mp:.
On hit, you cannot be reversaled, of course because it comboes, but it is not hard to miss the timing. So what you have to do here is make your hands never miss the timing for this link. And that's when the plinking part comes into scene. I say you plink the first st. :mp:of the target combo, so you have better chances of not missing the link. We will go back to that later.
For understanding plinks, what they are, how do they work and how to perform them, see VesperArcade tutorial chapter 9. There is nothing I can cover here that they haven't covered yet.
About plinking cr. :lk:
This is actually the main plink you should use (alongside with the st. :mp:plink). Instead of just pressing cr. :lk: always worrying about the timing you are pressing it (especially if you like to do two or three cr. :lk: for hit-confirming) since cr. :lk: is not a chain, but a link, and a pretty awkward one if you ask me, you should always plink this link. It should definitely solve the problem once and for all.
Here, your right hand's position plays a vital role in execution. I have seen many people who throw using the middle finger and the index finger (middle finger :lp: and index finger :lk:). Now that is not what you want. You want to position your hand as natural as possible, so I would advise you to position your hand as follows: thumb :lk:; index finger :lp:; middle finger :mp:, ring finger :hp:, little finger :3p: or :3k: depending on your taste. Without this positioning of your hand it is almost impossible to plink cr. :lk: during a real match, since you will have to be turning your hand a lot.
Having that said, one should always plink cr. :lk:. Why? Two simple reasons, one: it is better for linking cr. :lk:s, two: it is also an option select for teching throws (and a very good one, since you have an extra cr. :lk: input there in case there is a window for hitting the opponent). So let us take a look into how that would look, and some uses of it.
For understanding Option Selects, see VesperArcade tutorial chapter 10.
First I try without plink, then with plink:
Going back a little bit, above I said that you can make the standing :mp: link out of one, two or three crouching moves, so let's go at them separately, since the linking timing slightly changes from one another, and things you can do to follow them also change. In all the following videos, first, I try to execute the link without plinking, but I have no success. Then I go for the plink and I get 100% execution (well, at least I would get f I did not suck sometimes but...):
One cr. move > target combo (:mp: >:hp:):
Two cr. moves > target combo (:mp: >:hp:) (target combo whiffs on some characters unless from max close range):
Three cr. moves > st. :mp: (Target combo whiffs on all characters, so here you have to do a st. :mp:only):

Other links that you are going to be using, and can be better perfomed with plinking st. :mp: are cr. :hp:> st. :mp: (on Zangief, Juri, Chun-li, Cammy, Hakan, Dee Jay, Guy, T. Hawk, Sagat, Dudley and Makoto it is possible to perform a target combo:mp: >:hp:), cl. st. :mk:> st. :mp:, and cr. :mp:> st. :mp:. Here is a video on those three examples:
Other plink exemple is to plink st. :hp: after a cl. st.:hk:, and following that with another plinked st. :mp:, on one of the most badasses combos Guy have, but character specific (works on Guy, Sagat, Dee Jay, Adon, Gouken, Zangief, T Hawk, Dhalsim and Blanka). Here it goes:
Remember you cannot plink :lp:, so the bushin chain (:lp:>:mp: >:hp:>:hk:) link after any cr. move will have to be done only with your timing. But then again, this is not a hard link at all, though the timing to do it from cr. :lp: is different from cr.:lk:. Just practice it for a while, you'll get along.
Xbox Live Login - OTinhoso
Japanese Arcades - ガイ人 (gaijin)
YouTube channel dedicated to Guy:
http://www.youtube.com/user/PedroMarques999?feature=mhee
Your signature has been modifed, please read the rules.
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Comments

  • Pedro MarquesPedro Marques I gotta work on my tutorial! Joined: Posts: 214
    About double tapping
    The engine of this game recognizes inputs when you press them and when you release them (that is how you have negative edge). So double tapping gives you 2 times the same move (four times the input), differently from plinking, which doubles the input only. For further explanation on double-tapping, see VesperArcade tutorial chapter 9.
    This is well used in situations like air-to-air moves, pokes, and anti-air. Basically, when your opponent is also doing a move and you want yours to hit him first. With Guy this is no exception. You can and should double tap his normals, and actually everything else (other than the plinked links).
    However, there is one move that HAS to be double-tapped or else it will not hit 50% of the time regardless how good you are with the timing (I am talking about internet gameplay here, since there is variance in the lag depending on the opponent).
    This move is the HK BSK :qcb: :hk: during an air juggle, after a EX Hozanto :qcb: :2p: in the corner (this is actually not that hard without double-tapping, but performing it grants you 100% execution), and more specifically after a bushin chain throw :lp:>:mp:>:hp:>:d::hk: in the corner. The timing on this one is seriously messed up, and double-tapping it solves the problem. So let us take a look at both situations:

    EX Hozanto :qcb: :2p: > HK BSK :qcb: :hk:


    Bushin chain throw :lp:>:mp:>:hp:>:d::hk: >HK BSK :qcb: :hk:


    Now let's bring plinking and double-tapping together in one combo only examples (pay attention to the input data):

    Cr. :lk:> cr. :lk:> cr. :lk:> st. :mp: > EX Hozanto :qcb: :2p:> HK BSK :qcb: :hk:


    Cr. :mp: > st.:mp: > EX Hozanto :qcb: :2p:> HK BSK :qcb: :hk:


    Jump in :hk: > cr. :hp:> st. :mp:> EX Hozanto :qcb: :2p: > HK BSK :qcb: :hk:


    Jump in :hk:> st. :hk:> st. :hp:> st. :mp:> EX Hozanto :qcb: :2p:> HK BSK :qcb: :hk: (works only on Guy, Sagat, Dee Jay, Adon, Gouken, Zangief, T Hawk, Dhalsim and Blanka):

    Throwing with Guy, Kara-Throw
    Kara throwing in Street fighter is a very important tool. Guy's throw range sucks (although it looks like it will get better in the updated version of 2012), so his kara-throw is a must. Understand here that I am not saying that his kara-throw is a good one, God knows I am not when he sees my face every time I see Ken throwing out one, it is just that his kara-throw is slightly better than his normal throw, which is already something to go for, isn't it?
    To understand what a kara-throw is, refer to this video.
    Now, Guy's kara-throw is done through plinking st. :mp: with :lp:+:lk: (no directional inputs are necessary). And it has more usages than his normal throw. obey562 has made a very good video on it, so refer to the video for further information, since there is nothing else for me to comment about this matter:

    A little info about battling with Guy - Ground Normals, Air Normals and Focus Attack
    When it comes to real battle, what moves should you use? What moves shouldn't you use? What would be Guy's bread-and-butter? Let's talk a little about this.
    First, my advice for you is taking a look at Guy's frame data and hitbox data here. For understanding frame data and hitbox data, see VesperArcade tutorial chapter 11.
    Now that you are familiar with Guy's moves, let's think about how can they be used in a real match.
    On Ground normals
    St. :mk: and st.:mp: and cr. :mp: are decent pokes. Far st. :hp: works sometimes as a poke as well, but it is a slow move, so I wouldn't throw it out too much. As for st.:mp: and cr. :mp:, they are special cancelable, which means you can buffer a special move on them. If you don't know what buffering is, see VesperArcade tutorial chapter 8.
    Basically, the moves that can be buffered are EX Hozanto:qcb::2p: and Run> Slide :qcf::k:>:mk:.
    Here are two small videos on those two:
    Guy's roundhouse (cr. :hk: or :db::hk:) is unfortunately the worst in the game, and you ARE going to get punished very bad if you spam it. Beginners tend to spam it, and even experienced players tend to use it in desperate situations (maybe because Guy covers ground with it, and that gives people the feeling that they are getting away, or going in), but this is not a safe way to go in or get away AT ALL. For the holy and sacred love of God, STOP spamming roundhouse, or else you will lose every single match. It has some uses though, you can run away from some cross-ups (flying attacks that hit on your back, so you have to guard in the opposite direction) because it goes under them. This is actually a good way to get out of the corner if your opponent jumps on you trying to cross you up. But beware, this is not safe even in this situation. You can get hit by any option select. And hit hard.
    Cl. st. :mk:, cr. :hp:, cr. :mp:, cl. st. :hp: and target combo :mp:>:hp: are good normals for counter-hit set-ups. Counter-hit setups are a sequence of moves that creates a "frame trap" (a situation in which your opponent, trying to tech your throw or trying to hit you with a fast normal, is caught by your next move before his move becomes active). We are going to discuss in depth how to strike a counter hit and what to do once you've counter-hit your opponent in the Counter Hits- How to Hit and How to Follow topic.
    Also, to see more on counter-hits, refer to Bushin Frame Trap/Counter Hit setups thread.
    Aside from that, target combo :mp:>:hp: from close range is also a very good option for a ground normal, since you can follow up with a special move. I discuss what to do after a target combo on block and on hit in the Target Combo in Pressure Game topic of this thread.
    Cr. :mp: cr. :mk: and st. :hk: (timed fast enough) are his basic anti-airs. If you cannot anti-air something with cr. :mp:, most of the times you will be able to anti-air that same move with cr. :mk:. So these two moves work together in the sense that they complement each other. Other than that, st. :lp: works well against Yun's/Yang's/Rufus' dive kicks. And far st.:lk: has been put to use as an anti-air by some players, given its fast start-up. But actually Guy's best anti-air are special moves, discussed further on.
    Guy's overhead :f:+:mp: has a very good range, and hits twice (on crouching Sagat and Honda it hits only once, but that's just another prank from Capcom). So you can actually punish people who want to Focus > backdash on wake-up. Also, his overhead has a very unique characteristic: it is special cancelable as long as it does not hit (on its first frames). So, on wake up you can do an overhead, inducing your opponent to block standing, and instead you go for a LP Bushin Flip :qcf::lp: or even a Run> Slide :qcf::k:>:mk:, although these can be really risky. This is a gimmicky mix-up invented by the Legendary Otaku, and is widely used by players around the globe. Personally, I love it. And sometimes I abuse it too much, remember this is punishable in many ways (crouch guarding, reversals, etc.), so you shouldn't do it all the time.
    In resume, his overhead is basically a good move to throw here and there during your block strings (series of attacks in which your opponent has to keep blocking or reversal you). But more on that at the Counter Hits- How to Hit and How to Follow topic.
    Guy has another unique move on the ground: the ninja sickle :df:+:hk:. It hits twice, the second hit throws your opponent into air juggle and you can cause further damage with a EX Hozanto :qcb: :2p: and Run > Slide :qcf::k:>:mk: far from the corner, HK BSK :qcb: :hk: and Ultra 1:qcf::qcf::3k: in the corner. This sounds really nice, but the move has very slow start-up (11 frames) and is actually rarely used by advanced players. This is because even on a counter hit set-up this move is very limited. For example, if you try to bait out a tech throw going for a blockstring like this: cr.:lp: > cr.:lp: > ninja sickle :df:+:hk: on Ryu, even if you get the counter hit, only the first hit of the move will hit, so your opponent won't go airborne and there's nothing you can do after it. When the set-up is made only with one cr. move, like in: cr.:lp: > ninja sickle :df:+:hk:, there is a GREAT chance you are going to get hit before the move actually comes out. So, this can be used on wake-up pressure as a meaty (your opponent thinks you are going to throw and tech throws you, instead you land your boot right into his mouth), leading to an Ultra 1 in the corner, and also after a jump in with :hk:or :hp:, which I personally think is it's best usage. Aside from that, I find use for this move only in punishing situations (after landed Focus Attack or whiffed reversal or on dizzy opponent) so any other ideas are more than welcome.
    However, I have the theory that ninja sickle might kick ass after 2012 version is released, because neutral safe jump > :hp: is going to be a basic against any character. Imagine this combo in the corner: neutral safe jump > :hp:> ninja sickle :df:+:hk:> Ultra 1....I hope I am right.
    Some people argue this can be used as an anti-air, but the start-up is so slow you would have to practically GUESS when your opponent is going to jump. I wouldn't advise this one, at least not for beginners/intermediates.
    Here is a video on a nice combo (really good damage) in which the ninja sickle is put in use after a jump in with :hp:, in the corner:

    The combo starts at 1:13, until then you can verify the overhead cancel.

    Last but not least, cr. :lp: and cr. :lk: are the normals you are going to use the most. They are your way into combos, specially the bushin chain combo :lp:>:mp:>:hp:>:hk: that deals maximum damage if you are not using any special move. Speaking of which, in case you are asking yourself, the bushin chain combo :lp:>:mp:>:hp:>:hk: will not be normally linked from any normal other than :lp: and :lk:, both standing or crouching for :lp:, and only couching for :lk:, most of the time. Of course, you can do the bushin chain combo after a cr. :mp:, cl. st. :mk:, cl. st. :hk: etc. but those are going to be performed mainly in punishing situations (after a whiffed dragon punch, for example, the best combo, if not an Ultra, would be cl. st. :hk:> bunshin chain combo:lp:>:mp:>:hp:>:hk: > EX Hozanto :qcb: :2p:, or cl. st. :hk:> bushin chain combo:lp:>:mp:>:hp:>:hk: > HK BSK :qcb::hk: in the corner).
    Coming back to the subject, cr. :lp: and cr. :lk: are the normals that you are going to use the most because they not only lead to the above listed bunshin chain combo, but also they allow a block string that can lead to a throw opportunity, a target combo and things that follow it, and counter hit set ups. Some people like to use two cr.:lp: / cr.:lk: (they are perfectly mixable, so it does not matter in which order you perform them as long as you are familiar with the link), some people like to use three, and some people use only one before they go for a throw, a target combo or a counter hit set up. But I will discuss these three in depth at the Guy's Style Revised topic of this thread.
    I also want to note here that the cr. :lp:/ cr. :lk: block string itself serves as a counter-hit set up. You just have to delay the input a little bit between one cr. move and another, baiting a tech throw from your opponent, but more on this only at the Bushin Frame Trap/Counter Hit setups thread.
    Xbox Live Login - OTinhoso
    Japanese Arcades - ガイ人 (gaijin)
    YouTube channel dedicated to Guy:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/PedroMarques999?feature=mhee
    Your signature has been modifed, please read the rules.
  • Pedro MarquesPedro Marques I gotta work on my tutorial! Joined: Posts: 214
    Air Normals
    When in air-to-air (both players in the air) your best option is a actually a special move, which we are going to see later on, but if we talk only about normals, :hp: is the one you will be looking to use, specially because it will have its hitbox increased in the 2012 version. :mp: and :mk: are not bad options as well, since they come out somewhat fast and have good hitboxes range wise. Some people like to use neutral jump :hp: as an anti-air, jumping right after people jump at them. I say that is one valuable strategy indeed, as long as you have reactions fast enough.
    :hk: is not very good for an air-to-air because its start up is a bit slow (8 frames, while :hp: is 6 frames), but it will be your main jump in (only when you jump at the opponent on the ground) tool, unless you want to cross up. Alongside with :mp:, :hk: is the only move done during a diagonal jump in that can hit low profile attacks (AKA ducking attacks, basically they are moves that the opponent does when you jump at them trying to lower their characters hurt-boxes, so your attack will whiff and they will have you in their hands). A deep inputted :mp:or :hk: (thanks to Blooddrunk on this one) will punish (oh, I love it when it does!) those cr. :mk: shoto mother f****rs, inducing them not to try ducking you again, then going for a dragon punch instead (which is all you want, so you can fake a jump with elbow drop :d:+:mp: and punish them hard).
    :mk: is the only move you can use to cross-up your opponent (attack him from behind, so he will have to guard in the opposite direction), so you are going to use this one a lot. Unfortunately, its hit box kind of sucks, so it will be hard to cross-up some characters like Chun-li, Rose and Sakura. On top of that, low-profile ducking moves punish :mk: jump-ins hard, which makes our situation even worse.
    :lp: and :lk: are useless as air-to-air moves and also in diagonal jump-ins. They are only useful in neutral safe jumps (a safe jump is a jump in which you cannot be hit, even if your opponent wake-up reversals you) that come after combos finished with Run > Slide :qcf::k:>:mk: . In these cases, :lp: and :lk: are very good options to apply further pressure, since you can follow them both on hit or on block with cr. :lp:/ cr.:lk: > target combo :mp:>:hp:. In resume, they lead to block strings. Still on this neutral safe jump,:mk:, :mp:, :hk: and :hp: are also other available options, especially :hp: after 2012 version is released (better hit stun, better damage). More about this neutral safe jump in the Target Combo in Pressure Game topic
    Neutral jump :hk:causes aerial juggle, but I doubt you are going to land this one on an air-to-air situation before they hit you. It's hitbox just plainly sucks.
    Other than that, Guy has a unique air move: the elbow drop :d:+:mp:. This move can be done out of a neutral jump, and out of a diagonal jump, which is when it is better used. This move stops Guy's diagonal flying trajectory, making him fall down straight at the point the move is activated. Although this goes strongly against the laws of gravity, this move should be an awesome one, as you can always have your opponent trying to guess if you are going to jump all they way to his back for a cross-up or if you are going to stop middle way and fall in his front with the elbow drop, right? WRONG.
    Unfortunately, elbow drop is also another victim of low profile moves. So, for example if you are fighting Ryu, all your opponent needs to do is cr. :mk: like there is no tomorrow, regardless of what you are going to do (both elbow drop and cross-up with :mk: get stuffed, remember?). It is brain dead, there is not even a right timing for it. Capcom really should have done something about this. What is the point on having a unique move that is useless?
    Anyways, some people don't know that, and some characters can't duck (I can't remember who...but). So this is another tool in your aerial arsenal, worthless or not.
    However, when this move is used as bait, then it is really useful. You just need to jump in your opponent, or at least pretend you are going to, and use his elbow drop to stop mid way. God knows how many times I've baited shoryukens out with this one. This is best used when far from your opponent, so you don't run any risks. For that matter you can also use Guy's Wall Jump (just jump into the wall and direction yourself into the opposite direction, he jumps again automatically). Guy's wall jump can also be used to cover full screen distances, and could be a good way to get in when your opponent is throwing fireballs at you, for example. The wal jump > elbow drop bait setup is getting buffed in the 2012 version (you can make a move out of the wall earlier than you could before). Finally, wall jump can be used to get out of the corner, as long as you manage to jump when receiving pressure. But your opponent can and might track you down for punish anyway (at least you are out of the corner if that helps...).
    Now, when in a safe jump situation that comes out of a set-up (for further explanation see the Safe Jumps and Cross Ups thread) you can use both jump :mk: cross-up and elbow drop:d:+:mp:. And in those cases this is a good guessing game. But aside from this, I wouldn't rely too much on cross ups or elbow drops too much, since in a high level match you should not be jumping in recklessly anyway. Jump-ins should be done only in certain situations, like safe jumps, or when you are jumping over a fireball.

    Focus Attack
    Guy's focus attack (hold and release :mp:+ :mk:) is by far not the best in the game, it does not reach very far, it is no Fei Long I guarantee, but FA >dash plays an important role in going in. Since his walking speed is a joke, sometimes it is good to pretend you are going to FA and dash instead, just to get close to your opponents. Again, this isn't very safe, since they can simply kick you in the face during your forward dash animation, but now and then it could work. His dash's speed also suck, and that is what makes his FA not so good, but I think this still is a usable tool in Guy's pressure game (Kiryu Tsukimiya abuses it). After a Lv 2 FA on block, you can forward dash for a really safe blockstring (+4 frames), but LV 1 isn't so safe (-2, correct me if I am wrong). Remember that in this game all throws have 2 frame start-up, so if your opponent tries to throw you, and you do not tech while dashing, you are going to get thrown my friend. This shuts down any approach you can make, because you will have to tech throw every single time, so an experienced player knowing that will shoryuken the crap out of you and there is nothing you can do (actually you can block, but then you can get thrown...). It’s this 50/50 game, not a good game for you at all, that is the reason I do not recommend a forward dash after a LV1 FA with Guy, so if you are baiting a normal aiming for a counter hit, back dash instead. If you get what you want you can follow with a Run > Slide :qcf::k:>:mk: or a MP hozanto :qcb::mp:.
    On hit (a counter hit LV1, or a unblocked LV2 or more) FA crumples give you time to punish hard, and this is maybe why Guy players like FA so much.
    Furthermore, FADC plays an important role in the pressure game on block (you can FADC :lp:and :mp: Hozantos, for they are safe on block, so you can keep the pressure going), and on hit for landing an Ultra 1 in the corner (after any hozanto), so you better learn how to Hozanto > FADC > Ultra 1 in the corner. The timing is a bitch, but you have to learn it on both sides of the screen, this is a MUST.
    For more information on Focus Attacks, mind Vesper Arcade's Tutorial chapter 6.

    Also you can find loads of information about Guy's moves, normals and special, in the following threads, but some of them are still rather underdeveloped, and others talk about SSF4 before AE:
    A little info about battling with Guy - Special Moves and Ultras
    Guy has many special moves, maybe more than most of the cast. Let's go at them one by one, discussing how can they be used and how they shouldn't be used in real matches.
    Hozanto :qcb::p: (Armor break)
    Hozanto is one of Guy's main special moves, and you are going to be using it a lot. Especially :lp: Hozanto, because it is the safest on block (-1). :lp: Hozanto can be comboed after a target combo :mp:>:hp:, and in the corner it leads to an air juggle that can be followed by HK BSK :qcb::hk: or FADC Ultra 1 for further damage. Near the corner, you can follow the same :lp:Hozanto with a EX Hozanto :qcb::2p:, in one of Guy's sexiest combos. :lp: Hozanto also comboes after a close st. :mp:.
    On block, it is safe (-1) and can be FADCd > forward dash for further pressure in a very safe way of keeping it close to your opponent (by the expensive cost of two bars though). Some players like Nox2 like the :lp: Hozanto > far st. :mk: counter hit set-up, which is pretty safe and is good for poking people who want to walk in, or mash any normals after guarding the :lp: Hozanto.
    However, Guy players have the AWFUL habit of always following a target combo with :lp: Hozanto either on block or on hit at any place of the screen. I will discuss why this is a bad habit at the Guy Guy's Style Revised Topic of this thread.
    :lp: Hozanto can also be used out of a far st.:mp:, although it does not combo unless the :mp:hits as a counter hit, this is a fairly safe (yes, they can reversal you in the gap between the two moves but they most likely won't) counter hit set up. Some people will try to tech after :mp:, or even try to jump away, and then they will get hit by the :lp: Hozanto. This is best used in the corner, and a good set-up for it would be after a target combo :mp:>:hp:> Run Stop :qcf::k:>:lk: , because normally people tend to mash some crouching normal after a Run Stop. We will talk a lot about Run Stop pressure in the Guy's Style Revised Topic of this thread.
    :mp: Hozanto has other uses. It does not combo after target combo, neither it can be used following a cl. st. :mp:. However, after a target combo on block, it can be used as a counter hit set up. If your opponent is mashing crouching normals, :mp:Hozanto will hit him/her out of his/her move animation before he/she hits you. This is also best used in the corner, just the way i mentioned above. :mp: Hozanto is also a good tool to go under fireballs (forget Guile's sonic booms, Capcom won't allow you to go under them), and is good for hitting FA crumples when you backdashed instead of forward dashing. This version is also safe on block (-2), but not that much.
    I have found very little use for :hp: Hozanto. It can go under fireballs yes, but you have to get the timing perfectly or you will eat a reversal. Your opponent can even block, and punish you later as :hp: Hozanto is totally unsafe on block (-6).
    All Hozantos are super cancelable, which means target combo >:lp: Hozanto > Super :qcf::qcf::p: is a good combo to think about.
    EX Hozanto :qcb: :2p: is also always present in Guy's offensive game. Although it is totally unsafe on block (-6, DON'T MISS IT), it can be used in many more situations than the other versions. Basically, EX Hozanto :qcb: :2p: can be comboed in all situations :lp:Hozanto can be comboed, plus after :lp:Hozanto itself near corner (so sexy), after bushin chain combo :lp:>:mp: >:hp: >:hk:) mid screen, when Run Overhead :qcf::k: > :hk: hits an opponent in the air, after a successfully hit ninja sickle :df::hk: and out of most normals.
    Since all Hozantos have armor break property, this is also the move you are going to perform when you see your opponent charging a FA right in front of you. :mp: version can also work, but EX version is 100% hit. That will show them not to spam FA in front of you like crazy.
    All hozanto push back your opponent violently into the corner, where Guy displays the best of Bushin Ryu. I just wish EX Hozanto had more invincibility frames on start-up. Since it is FADC cancelable, it would be such a great wake-up reversal.
    Chip damage with Hozantos is not the best in the game, but is better than nothing. Guy really lacks chip damage when compared to Shotos or C. Viper...well, can't have the cool and the cheap at the same time huh?
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  • Pedro MarquesPedro Marques I gotta work on my tutorial! Joined: Posts: 214
    Bushin Senpuu Kyaku (BSK) :qcb::k: (Armor break)
    This is a tricky one. All of them are supposed to hit three times, but that is definitely not what you are going to see in real life. Depending on distances, characters you are facing, etc. it will hit less and you will make that "not again" face, God knows I do that every EX BSK :qcb::2k: I waste on one single damn hit.
    LK BSK :qcb::lk: has throw invincibility, but actually has little uses, some people like to use it after a Run Stop :qcf::k:>:lk:, hoping your opponent will throw some normal out, but I just don't find that really safe. It combos out of some normals like the cr. :lk: and cr.:lp: and also out of target combo :mp:>:hp: etc, but the damage display is so ridiculous that you should give up on trying to combo this move at all. However, there is one very sexy combo that comes out of a :qcb::lk: but I have never landed it in a real fight. Anyways, here it goes:

    Jump in :hk:> cr. :lk:> cr. :lk:> cr. :lk:> LK BSK :qcb::lk:> Super combo :qcf::qcf::p:

    Be careful with the spacing though, or else you could miss the third hit, and not be able to link the Super later.

    Anyways, moving on, :mk: BSK is lower body invincible and it is fireball invincible. So this makes it good to be used as a wake-up reversal against happy fireball Guile, Dhalsims, who try to sonic boom you on your wake-up from a not-at-all safe distance. Other than that and some random mashing when you are getting hit and have no bars for using the EX version, I see little use for this one as well. However (there is always a however), this can be well used as a buffered option select on jump-ins. For example: neutral safe jump after Run > Slide :qcf::k: > :mk:, neutral jump :mk: (buffer :mk: BSK right before the aerial :mk: lands) > cr. :lk:> ...
    This option select will gets backdashers, as the :mk: BSK will come out if the neutral jump :mk: doesn't hit, and the combo :mk: > cr. :lk: will happen if :mk: hits (the :mk: BSK will never happen in that case).
    Here is a video on it (the one I was talking about is the first of the list):

    :mk: BSK can also be comboed after a target combo :mp:>:hp:, but I don't recommend it. The damage and stun display are good yes, but :lp:Hozanto and mainly Run > Slide :qcf::k: > :mk: are better options. "Oh, but I want to follow my target combo with :mk: BSK man!"...."Stop playing Guy....NOW...".
    :hk: BSK was supposed to be a anti-air, but if you try it you will get kicked in the face almost every time. So this one, as it does not hit people who are on the ground, has even less use than the previews ones. As we have been discussing here though, it can be well used for aerial juggle damage in the corner after landed Hozantos (refer to Double-tap Topic of this thread). Aside from that, :hk: BSK is completely useless, so this is a special move you are only going to use inside of combos.
    Lastly but more importantly: EX BSK :qcb::2k:. This one is useful. I know it could be more if all the hits actually hit and it got low profile moves (looks like both of these issues are getting corrected in the 2012 version), but this move is still going to fill great part of your arsenal. It has invincibility frames on its start up, so this is Guy's perfect "get-the-hell-off-me" move. In other words, this is the move you are going to be mashing when you are receiving pressure, and as a wake-up reversal (which you shouldn't actually do much, but everybody does...there is no helping to it).
    Its second and equally important use is as anti-air. In some match-ups like against Zangief this move is crucial. Although not all hits actually hit at all times, this is arguably Guy's best anti-air, in the sense it is easy to execute on reaction and has many invincible frames (from start to the first hit).
    EX BSK :qcb::2k: can also be used for aerial juggle damage just like the :hk: version, but it deals more damage, after all you are spending a bar for that. Although I wouldn't do it, since you can use the :hk: version, aside from some specific cases, when you can kill the opponent with a little more damage, that would be a good thing to keep in mind. Same goes for all combos in which :lk:or :mk: BSK can be used: the damage here is a bit better but there is much more you could be doing that this is just not worth it.
    It is worth to note by the way, that if you land a Run > Overhead :qcf::k: > :hk: on an airborne opponent in or near the corner, you can follow with EX BSK :qcb::2k: before he/she hits the ground for further damage (Keep in mind that Ultra 1 is also an option here).
    When you hit a FA on a backdashing opponent (it does happen sometimes), you can follow up with forward dash and EX BSK :qcb::2k:.
    Also, when you jump in and your opponent uses FA to absorb your jump in air normal, your can break his/her armor with an immediate EX BSK. It takes a little practice, but once you get the timing, this shuts down a big defensive tool some people like to abuse.
    Now to the worst part of the talk, the problem with this move is that all versions are not FADC cancelable, not even the EX version. So Guy is pretty much out of FADC cancelable decent reversals. That is why I call this move Bullshit Senpuu Kyaku (BSK).
    Having this in mind, you should think twice before mashing it out, because one single mistake can cost you the whole match.
    Bushin Izuna Otoshi AKA Bushin Flip :qcf::p: > :p:(for grab) and Bushin Elbow Drop :qcf:p: > :p: (for hit)
    Independent of :lp:, :mp:, :hp: or EX :2p: versions, all Bushin Flip (AKA Bushin Izuna Otoshi) deal the same damage. The difference here is the distance they cover. Following the order above, that would be short, medium, long and track (goes to where the opponent is). The EX version is fireball invincible and grab invincible so it has uses against people who spam fireballs, and against Guiles who love to Ultra 2 you on your wake up etc.
    Overall, all versions deal a whole lot of damage (180) and people love to spam it. But the big question here is: should you be relying on this move?
    I say NOT AT ALL. If your opponent knows the Guy matchup even a little bit, it will be hard to catch him/her with the grab even when he/she is in the air. That is because the grabbing move lasts for one motherfu***ng frame and there is a whole bigger chance you get kicked or punched before actually grabbing him/her. On top of that, if your opponent is on the ground, they don't need anything more than crouching in order to avoid your grabs (Bushin Flip does not grab crouching opponents). Then you say, "But then I hit them with the elbow version, because if I don't grab, the elbow comes out of the second :p: input!"...surely that can be done on someone who does not know Guy's game very well (AKA scrub), but against a real person (you know those with a brain) that wouldn't go so well. That is because they can simply mash a cr. low profile move (remember elbow drop is useless against low profile moves?). Yes my friend, I know what you are thinking...they should have done this elbow with a bit larger hitbox range...
    Well, the game is out there and guess what? Bushin Flip sucks. So don't say I did not warn you: DO NOT RELY ON IT. People WILL crouch and WILL stuff your elbow with low profile ducks.
    Having that said, there is some use to Bushin flip and let us go through it.
    First, from medium and short distances, :lp: and :mp: versions respectively, you can try to throw out one Bushin Flip here and there in between your block strings, because they will catch your opponent on surprise and they won't have time to react to it (unless your opponent is someone like Fuudo the reaction master, then you should give up on this idea for real). Actually, these surprise Bushin Flips are better used if you hit your opponent with the overhead a couple times before you try it, so you have conduced them to block high. For example: you can go for a cr. :lp:> cr.:lp: > overhead :f::mp: first, and then risk a cr. :lp:> cr.:lp: >:lp: Bushin flip. I bet that would catch some people, even very good players, you never know when they try to jump away or anything. But again, this should be done from time to time, it is not something to rely on.
    Other than occasional surprise Bushin flips, this move has three more effective ways to be used, lets go at them one by one.
    First, the EX version :qcf::2p: along with the uses stated above, can also be used for a wake-up pressure instant punish, for free 180 damage. This is called the uncrouchable EX Bushin Flip. There is a single frame in any character's wake up animation in which they have to stand (messed-up engine huh?) before they can crouch again. So even if they try to crouch, they will have their asses grabbed and properly tossed away. On top of that, this also works against most mashed reversals (people who like to wake up reversal :lp: Shoryuken) if timed right, so that is also a plus. I must note here also that this is best used after a techable knock down (the ones you can mash buttons to stand up fast) and not from far away (otherwise you can miss the timing and end up hit by a reversal). On the other hand, this move does have a weak point (what did you expect, 180 free damage every techable knock down?). And curiously enough it had to be that holy cr. low profile normal. If your opponent mashes one of those on wake-up, then you will not grab them, most probably the following elbow won't hit as well (unless you slow it down and they act too early) and you will see yourself comboed into darkness again. Anyways, this is a good tool, that can be used but shouldn't be abused.
    Here is a funny video where a scrubby Juri seems unable to learn how to deal with it:
    Second, and actually the above listed uncrouchable EX Bushin Flip is part of this, is Bushin Flip used as gimmicky set-up (the word gimmicky here is used not in a bad, random sense, but only as a set-up that tricks your opponent into more damage). The best example for that would be when you are cornered and you perform a bushin chain throw :lp:>:mp:>:hp:>:d:hk:, you can follow up while your opponent is airbourne with some normals :lp:, :mp:, :hp: etc. After successfully landing the normal, the gimmicky :lp: Bushin Flip comes into scene (if you perform it right after hitting with the normal you will be able to catch your opponent right when they land into the ground). Of course, as any gimmicky move, there are ways out of it, and the most obvious one would be to simply crouch.
    More on Guy's corner game at the Corner Pressure Topic of this thread.
    Anyways, this is part of Guy's game, although it does not need to be if you don't want it to, but I can't stress enough that it shouldn't be something to rely on.
    Another gimmicky trick that I have stated above in a different topic is the overhead :f:+:mp: on your opponent's wake-up canceled before hit into :lp:Bushin Flip.
    Third and last, the :mp: Bushin flip can be well used as an anti-cr.-low-profile-move-mash and anti-reversals set up when done following a target combo :mp: >:hp: on block. Normally, players are used to the mash cr. low profile move as soon as they see your Bushin Flips on reaction, and normally Guy players use and abuse the :lp: version. So when the :mp: version comes around (it goes higher and takes more time for the elbow drop to land) they will mash the cr. normal too early, and you will hit them on recovery. On the other hand, if they mash a reversal, a :lp:Shoryuken for example (unless it auto-corrects) you will grab them from behind. Worst case scenario, you don't grab them and you just fly away out of danger. Now this is some use for this move isn't it? But then again, and for the last time, this shouldn't be used much, as they can learn the timing faster than you would like them to, and your elbow will get stuffed. But I like to throw out at least one of these per match during my block strings. Especially because of the counter hit set-up you can follow with in case they block the elbow drop (a blocked elbow drop that comes from a Bushin Flip gives you enough time to try to throw, or try a cl. st. :mk: when you think your opponent will foresee your throw and try to tech it).
    In resume, this is a move that can be punished on reaction, so it would be best used if you give little opportunity for your opponent to react, either by making it a surprise move or by mixing-up stuff.
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  • Pedro MarquesPedro Marques I gotta work on my tutorial! Joined: Posts: 214
    Run :qcf::k: and its variations - Run > Stop :qcf:k:> :lk: / Run > Slide :qcf:k:> :mk: / Run > Overhead :qcf:k:> :hk:
    Basics
    This is definitely the most interesting, unique (and when used properly I may even risk to say THE best) special move Guy has alongside Hozanto (especially :lp:and :mp: versions) and Kaiten Izuna Otoshi (in the air :qcf::p:). Run :qcf::k: and its variations represents a great part of Guy's pressure game (Run > Stop), combo finishing (Run > Slide) and even some unsafe but sometimes useful gimmicks (Run > Overhead).
    There is a lot to say about this special, and I cover its uses and maneuvers, especially the Run > Stop:qcf::k:> :lk: pressure, in depth at the Guy's Style Revised Topic of this thread... Here I will limit myself to describing all its variations, and think about the extent to which they might be useful / safe or not, as I have being doing up to now.
    First of all, Run:qcf::k: can be done out of most normals (cr. :mp:, st. :mp:, st. :hp:, st. :lp:, target combo :mp:>:hp: and etc.). Next, Run:qcf::k: is a special move that has to be followed by some other kick button, namely :lk:, :mk:or :hk:. If you don't press anything Guy will run all the way to your opponents face and since it takes a very long time until you regain control on him, this can't be good can it? So if you ran, you have to do something, but don't worry with :lk: you can stop and you will regain control in 2 frames or something like that. The reason why I am talking about this is because some people come to me and ask why are their Run > Stop so slow to stop, or why can't they guard after stopping. Dude, you are not stopping, you are just running. What is probably happening there is: you are not pressing :lk: in time, or you pressed it too early that it did not come out at all. This seems like a dumb thing to discuss, but when your opponent is really close to you it might be more difficult to stop before hitting him (and consequently not being able to do anything for a while) than you would imagine. So, my advice is before you even think of using Run and its variations: go to training mode and get the timing for Run > Stop:qcf::k:> :lk:. Run stop can be difficult to execute at first, and mashing :lk: is definitely not the best way to do it (as you can press more than enough and waste precious time, or you can miss the timing with your mash, since SSF4 links don't work when you mash). Yes, you can look at the :lk: after the:qcf::k: running part as a link. There is a specific timing to it, and if you miss it shit goes wrong, it looks like a link to me. Personally, I press :lk: only twice after start running. Some people do it with only one press. By the way, I didn't mention before but the first:qcf::k: can be any kick input and there will be no change in the output. However, I STRONGLY advise you to do it with :mk:. The reason is better hit confirming (you are going to use the:mk: more often), and we will discuss that on the Hit Confirming Topic of this thread.
    Once you've got the timing for the :lk: which executes the stopping part, you are pretty much ready for the other moves as well, namely :mk: and :hk:, since the timing is very similar. So let's talk about these three different outcomes separately.
    Run > Stop :qcf::k: > :lk:
    First, and as mentioned above, Run > Stop :qcf::k:> :lk: plays a big role in Guy's pressure game, and although discussing it is not our objective here, I will briefly state some things about this move.
    Run Stop :qcf::k:> :lk: is a bait move, that could be done to try to bait some reversal out of your opponent's despair, and it is also a pressure move, which allows you to keep close to your opponent and continue attacking with your block strings (that can lead to counter hits, throws, etc). However, most players I see do not know how to use this move properly. I mean they don't use it in a safe way. How come? Depending on the move you are going to Run Stop out of, you will be at a bigger frame disadvantage or smaller frame disadvantage. For details on that matter, look at these numbers (by str[e]ak):

    Target combo :mp:>:hp: > Run Stop:qcf::k:> :lk: = -2 frames
    Close st. :mp:> Run Stop:qcf::k:> :lk: = -3 frames
    Far st. :mp:> Run Stop:qcf::k:> :lk: = -8 frames
    Cr. :mp:> Run Stop:qcf::k:> :lk: = -8 frames
    Close st. :hp:> Run Stop:qcf::k:> :lk:= -4 frames

    So, what do we understand with these? ALL Run Stops leave you in minus frames. You are always going to be at a frame disadvantage here. Imagine a character who has fast crouching normals, like Balrorgs cr.:lp: (3 frames start up). If Balrog mashes cr. :lp: during your animation of running and stopping, and you also tried a cr.:lp: (Guy's has 4 frames start up), you are going to lose by 3 frames (you stop at -2, so you will start your move 2 frames later than him. His 3 frame move will come out the next frame after you started yours, and you would have 3 frames left to wait for your move to hit). Why is this useful then? Although this is a very extreme example, where Guy's Run Stop isn't so useful (c'mon we’re trying to show all the weaknesses here) there are still some things you can do here. For example, instead of throwing out a normal after stopping, especially when facing a fast cr. normal character, and since throwing them is also going to be a difficult task (since you stop too far away from the opponent and you would have to walk a little bit in, in order to throw. But let's see if this situation gets better in the 2012 version, where Guy's throw range is going to be increased), you could go for an EX BSK (invincible frames, although I wouldn't do that too much, since if you miss you are done for), or a far st. :mk: as long as you stop far enough (the hit box is perfect for this case, since they can’t hit you low unless they are really close, and you will counter hit them even so during their cr. normal animation. Worst case scenario you will trade hits, so this is definitely the best option here) and you could even Run Overhead:qcf::k: > :hk: them, though its risky. Only then, after they get hit a couple of times, maybe they would stop mashing cr. normals on your Run Stop, and that is when Guy's offensive game begins.
    Anyways, moving on, the only really safe Run Stop:qcf::k:> :lk: comes out of the target combo. All the others are punishable by 3 frame reversals (Shotos Shoryuken). Close st. :mp:> Run Stop:qcf::k:> :lk: is also not so bad especially against characters who don't possess 3 frame cr. normals. The throw set-up here is perfect when timed right.
    Here is a video on testing Run Stop after Target combo:


    Another VERY important thing to note: Run Stop :qcf::k:> :lk: is completely useless against grapplers (Zangief, T. Hawk and Hakan) and can be dangerous (although much less) against other characters who possess command throws in case they are mashing (Abel, Makoto, E. Honda and Guy himself because of his Ultra 2). In the three first cases they will grab you out of your Run > Stop (their command grab activates in 2 frames) every goddamn single time. So in these match-ups you have to take a different approach.
    I hope you have grasped the concept regarding Run Stop. Try a few combinations and a few follow-ups on it, practice the timing and don't abuse Run Stops that comes out of moves other than target combo. For more on this subject, see the Guy's Style Revised Topic of this thread.
    Run > Slide:qcf::k:> :mk:
    Now about Run Slide:qcf::k:> :mk: (AKA Shadow Kick). This move is going to be your main special when finishing a target combo :mp: > :hp:, unless you are in the corner or wanting to push your opponent there (which should be one of your main objectives). The reasons are simple, and are only two:
    1- The damage is higher.
    2- You will be positioned for a perfect neutral safe jump and will be able to apply further pressure, since :lp: Hozanto pushes the opponent away and the Shadow Kick does not.
    This safe jump is one of Guy´s main weapons of pressure, and you can keep attacking, attempt a throw, frame trap him/her (pretend to throw and hit him while he is in his move's animation's first frames with cr. :hp:, for instance) etc. But we will talk more about this in the Target Combo in Pressure Game topic.

    Other than that, you must know that Shadow kick does not break armor (doesn't break Focus Attacks) but you can simply FADC > backdash yourself out of trouble and sometimes get some free punish damage if your opponent Focus Attacked the empty space (even if you FADC backdash on Fei Long, Seth and Fuerte's FA you will still get hit).
    However, still on Run Slide :qcf::k:> :mk:, I STRONGLY advise you not to do it randomly (it seems many beginner Guy Players try to catch people off guard just because it hits low) unless you have two bars and are willing to spend them FADCing your way out in case you get (cock)blocked.
    This move is also a good answer against some special moves in the game (Akuma's jump backwards air fireball, Dictator's flying shit when they fall going backwards, Cody's :f::hk:, etc.) but this is a subject for character specific matters.
    Run > Overhead :qcf:k: > :hk:
    This one is not as useful as the previous two. It surely can have its uses, but this move has one immense flaw: it couldn't be more unsafe on block. Let's put it like this, if they block you you're done for (-1 trillion frames). It sure does hit overhead (they can't crouch block it, and loads of players have the bad habit of blocking low) but the risk and possible reward here is not always worth it. You can follow a successful Run Overhead hit with a cr. :lk: into any combo you can manage to pull off. The timing for the link is not easy, but plinking the cr. :lk: helps a lot, if the overhead kick counter hits, then its a piece of cake. But even with this combo available, this move is, honestly, still not always worth the risk.
    Just like Bushin Flips, it is unsafe and for being so I feel obliged to discourage you to use it. Of course, here and there, as a surprise attack, or when you are facing an opponent that turtles too much and you are close enough to avoid any reaction (if that is even possible) I say you try using one here and there, but do not abuse it.
    As stated before, when this moves hits an airborne opponent it causes air juggle and you can follow up with EX Hozanto :qcb: :2p: far from the corner, and EX BSK :qcb::2k: or Ultra 1 :qcf::qcf::3k: in the corner.
    Papatiwawa, a well known Japanese player, likes to use this Run Overhead :qcf::k: > :hk: in corner pressure as a gimmick following a bushin chain throw :lp:>:mp:>:hp:>:d::hk: > air juggle Here is one fight where he actually pulls it off (at the end of the second round):
    This setup is also discussed at the Corner Pressure Topic of this thread.
    EX Run and its variations
    EX run :qcf::2k: has armor properties (it absorbs 2 hits for the run + 1 hit for the stop), EX Run Slide:qcf::2k: > :mk: goes under Fireballs, EX Run Overhead:qcf::2k: > :hk: Jumps over fireballs (but only at its first frames). The last two are basically used against fireballs, or to approach enemies that can hit you from long distances, like Dhalsim.
    Plus, Ex Run can be canceled into an EX Bushin Flip, Ultra 2 or Ultra 1 for no additional bar costs. Obey562 has made a video about it, so instead of writing about it I will just put the self-explanatory video here:

    Guy's armor cancels are extremely efficient in some matchups. It is valid to remember here though, that they can only be performed as reversal, so a on a wake-up situation it would be best executed timing wise. Furthermore, EX Run Stop :qcf::2k: > :lk: absorbs three hits and although it is not as fast as the armor cancel, it also works pretty well as a set up for Ultra 2, for instance. For further understanding, mind the following videos, also from obey562:
    [media=youtube]nA04iQSbb_A


    Also, EX Run Stop :qcf::2k: > :lk: is also a very good get-of-the-jail card on wake up, especially when someone is trying to cross you up and you want to get away. You will absorb the first hit, and even if they actually land in front of you there will be enough time to just block. This is really useful against Ibuki's kunai vortex.
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  • Pedro MarquesPedro Marques I gotta work on my tutorial! Joined: Posts: 214
    Kaiten Izuna Otoshi :qcf:p: (in the air) and instant Kaiten Izuna Otoshi :qcf:uf::p:, or :qcf::u::p:, or :qcf::ub::p:
    This is Guy’s aerial command grab. Some people seem really bothered with this move, and wish it was a normal grab. But I would like to draw attention here to this move’s unique characteristics, namely its use as an invincible anti-air and air-to-air move (EX version) and its use as a reversal punisher on wake up pressure (also EX version). As you can see, although this move has a very good grab box range, the EX version displays its best outcome. But before talking about that, let us explain why there are two moves up there in the title, when in fact this is a single move.
    The first one Kaiten Izuna Otoshi :qcf::p: (in the air) is easy to get, you just need to make a :qcf: in the air + :p:, and Guy will attempt a grab (it doesn’t matter if you are neutral jumping or diagonal jumping, ascending or descending). The instant version is the one that needs explanation here. The above:qcf::uf:,:qcf::u: and :qcf::ub: are variations of the so-called TK (Tiger knee) motion. It comes from way back in the Street Fighter series and is a technique used to execute moves that have to be done in the air as soon as you get out of the ground (with:uf: he jumps forward, with :u: he jumps neutrally and with :ub: he jumps backwards, so be sure to exploit these too). With this technique, KIO can be used as an anti air (especially the EX version because of its invincibility frames). So it is actually the same move performed differently.

    Independent of the version, :lp:, :mp: or :hp:, the damage is the same (180 and 170 for the EX version). What changes here is the grab box, :lp: version is lower, :mp: version is central and :hp: version is high. The EX version :2p: has total invincibility on its first frames until it is active (it activates on the 3rd frame and lasts for 3 frames more), which makes it a very good anti-air or air-to-air move. I have had the experience of grabbing Guiles (they have the best air grab in the game) out of their jumps, but that depends only on the timing of your button presses. If you are invincible while he attempts to throw you, you've got him.
    KIO is largely used by high level players as an anti-air, both EX and normal versions (the :hp: version has the most useful hitbox in that case). See Kiryu's and Papatiwawa's matches for practical examples. Other than used as an anti-air, this move can also be put to use as a punisher for some characters' special moves on reaction and that is not possible with a normal air grab. It is not our objective to cover all of those moves here, but here goes a small video on that matter:


    On this very video you can observe the other unique function of KIO: the EX reversal punish (against some reversals, it doesn't even need to be the EX version, like against Adon's Jaguar Kick). This is good against people who like to mash reversals in their wake up, it works against most reversals in the game (Guile's Flash Kick and Fuerte's Guacamole are excluded from this list) and even some Ultras. Although the timing is not so easy (the move is active for only 3 frames), if you manage to pull it off in a fight, it can really mindfu** your opponent. Here is a very cool video about it:


    In resume, this is a very good move, mainly because of its two unique features and because of its use as an anti-air, but it seems really underrated to me. More people should master this move in my opinion. The damage is great and it really scares the shit out of your opponents.
    For more information about Kaiten Izuna Otoshi, and instant Kaiten Izuna Otoshi, refer to the Instant Inazuna - a must read for serious Guy players thread.
    Super combo :qcf:qcf::p:
    This is a curious move.
    Guy's Super is like Bushin Hassou Ken in the Alpha versions (the one in which he keeps hitting the opponent while he goes up, way above Newton's laws), which is cool, but it seems to whiff a lot depending on the character you are playing against, and on the height your opponent is when you land the first hit on him. Once you whiff one move, all the other moves don't come out and you have just spent a full meter for nothing.
    It hits high, very high, so you can only apply it on airborne opponents or when you are close enough to hit their heads. This is not hitting a crouching opponent in a million years. So, from here we already know that Guy's super has only two possible uses: 1) anti-air; 2) punishing or during combos (of course, you also have the mashing reversal option when you are taking pressure and you are proving yourself as a legitimate scrub... so I refuse to take that into consideration). Let us briefly talk about those two.

    About the first use, some people say this is Guy's ultimate anti-air, since this has full invincibility until the first hit. But in real life, I completely disagree with that for two simple reasons. First, it is not every day that you are going to have a full meter there just waiting to be spent on a anti-air super. Second, even if you do have that meter there, you have to agree that this is not the smartest way to spend it, unless you can kill your opponent and win the fight (not the round) with the damage. So that's it for this one, DON'T use it. Go for EX BSK :qcb::2k: or EX KIO :qcf::uf::2p: instead.
    Second use is pretty obvious, and there is little to talk about this one too. Guy's super can be comboed after any Hozanto :qcb::p:, bushin chain combo :lp:>:mp:>:hp:>:hk:, target combo :mp:> :hp: and some normals (cl. st. :hk:, cl. st. :hp:, cl. st. :mk:, cl. st. :mp:, etc.). In the corner, it can be comboed after a :lk: BSK. It also can be comboed after a :hk: BSK, but only in the two following corner combos (previously covered on videos):

    Ninja sickle :df::hk: > HK BSK :qcb::hk: > Super combo:qcf::qcf::p:
    Bushin chain throw :lp:>:mp:>:hp:>:d::hk: > HK BSK :qcb::hk: > Super combo:qcf::qcf::p:

    Guy's Super can also be used out of an armor cancel:qcf::qcf::2k:>:p:, but this one is just for the record since this is no way to spend all your meter.
    Ultra 1 :qcf::qcf::3k: and Ultra 2 :hcb::hcb::3p:
    Finally, Guy's ultras. I am going to be straight: they suck. I know some people will strongly disagree with me, but we've gotta face it, compared to most of the cast, they suck. But here's the good news, they are getting buffed in 2012 version. Ultra 1 is going to have a better range (Guy literally slides before the first hit) and Ultra 2 is going to get more lenient inputs (the inputs now are so strict that many players have difficulties on pulling it off) plus an increase on its grab box. Okay, these are not so great but they are already a start. For more on the changes check out this video I made at the locket test:



    Anyways, let's have a look at them separately.
    First, Ultra 1 is Guy's main ultra in most match-ups (is it really? I like to think it is). It comboes, always and only in the corner, after a bushin chain combo :lp:>:mp:>:hp:>:hk:, a Run Overhead :qcf::k: > :hk: that hit an airborne opponent, a Ninja Siclke :df::hk: as long as the second hit lands, and a Hozanto :qcb::p: > FADC :mp:+:mk: > forward dash :f::f:. Against some characters FADC is not needed, but even so the timing is so strict that I wouldn't risk it).
    Also, as Blooddrunk found out (this is a major finding really), you can combo Ultra 1 without having to FADC after the :lp: Hozanto when you perform a cl. st. :hk: before the target combo. The whole combo would be as follows: cl. st. :hk: > target combo :mp: > :hp: > Ultra 1 :qcf::qcf::3k:. This finding made me so happy that I even made a video on this combo (remember it doesn't work against Sakura, Blanka, Dudley, Makoto, Dictator, El Fuerte, Gen, Ibuki, Guile, Rufus and the twins for they have lower falling animations):
    Outside of the corner, It can be comboed after jump ins with :hp: or :hk:. The problem is most of these combos have lots of hits first (normally the Hozanto will come out of a target combo, bushin chain combo has 4 hits alone, etc.), and SSF4 has a damage scale engine (the next hit always deals less damage, this is to avoid one combo wins). So this Ultra will not deal half the damage it would (the last hit takes the more damage) in combos, than it would take if performed alone. So my advice here is: if you are going to finish a combo with Ultra 1, try to land the least number of hits before the Ultra as possible.
    Ultra 1 has invincibility until the first hit, so some scrubs like to do it as a wake up reversal. Please don't do it. One sad tear comes down through my face every time you do it. However and going back a little, this can be used against fireballs, and with the 2012 update, the distance from which you can perform it greatly increased (see video above). The same goes for Hozanto > FADC > Ultra 1. Now it is possible to perform it from almost mid screen.
    But what I really think it should be getting as a buff is a vortex property (first hit lands all hits land), so it could be used as an anti-air like most Ultras in the game can. Which did not happen unfortunately.
    This is why this ultra is so lame, it doesn't vortex, it deals little damage in most combos, and it can only be comboed near the corner.
    About Ultra 2.
    This move deals tons of damage (up to 500), can totally turn the table in some fights, but players don't seem to know how to use it. I feel ashamed every time I see a Guy player trying to land one of these out of the blue, and their opponents just gracefully jump out of it, punishing them later. So put it in your head that this move is not an instant grab, like Zangief's pile drivers. Speaking of which, this move's motion and also grab box are getting improved in 2012 version. I think this should be enough for this one, but there are some people who claim this ultra should be an instant grab (2 frames grab) like in grappler's moves, so people would not be able to jump away after you activated it. My comment on that is: C'mon, are you kidding me? If you agree with that idea, seriously man...go play Zangief. Guy is a baiting and punishing character, and that is what makes it fun to play him. Period.
    So, now that we are clear on that subject, this Ultra can basically be used in two ways: 1) as a pushing move (against whiffed special moves, some specials like a blocked green hand from Zangief, and after a landed FA or when your opponent has gone chicks AKA dizzy). 2) in a set-up (some role you play with other moves first, in order to get your opponent to press a button, either throwing out a normal, or trying to tech throw you). Here is a small video about it:
    More about set-ups for Ultra 2 in the Profound Punishment! baits and punishing moves thread.

    Now to non-standard advanced uses of Ultra 2. There are also two of them.
    First, it can be used on wake up as a reversal (but not randomly, mashing it out like a retard, please) against safe-jumps. Basically, when you see your opponent going for a safe jump on you (you have to know that character's safe jumps against Guy, of course), you can Ultra 2 him as long as you can time it correctly, since it has invincibility on its first frames. So the normal will whiff and you will grab him before he can jump away. The simplest example I can give on this is the mirror match (Guy vs. Guy). On this match-up, Ultra 2 shuts down Guy's neutral safe jump after Run Slide :qcf::k: > :mk: completely. He does it, you punish him, simple as that.
    This Ultra can also be used on an armor cancel or EX Run Stop :qcf::2k: > :lk: set up, which would be the second and maybe the more advanced use of it. Both explained and showed in the videos listed above on EX Run and its variations. This is especially good against Dictator's scissor kicks, as Legendary Otaku proves in this video (last fight, last round):


    In my opinion, Ultra 2 is especially useful against Dictator, Boxer, Adon, Dudley and all the Grapplers (arguable).
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  • Pedro MarquesPedro Marques I gotta work on my tutorial! Joined: Posts: 214
    What is Hit Confirming and Why Practicing it
    Now that we have seen Guy's moves, let’s move on to how to actually perform them decently. Proper hit confirming is CRUCIAL, ESSENTIAL, INDISPENSABLE (I couldn't stress it enough) when using Guy.
    Hit confirm is a term that stands for a move, or a series of moves (normally fast moves like cr.:lp: or cr.:lk:, but could really be any move) that are put into practice before a player goes into a stronger move or a bigger combo, to verify if his moves are hitting or being blocked. So if blocked he/she does not perform the rest of the combo, or other moves that were in his/her mind (which are normally unsafe on block), hence not running risks of getting punished. On the other hand, when on hit he/she can perform the other moves, combos he/she had in mind. Also, even when the player does not intend on verifying hit or block, but when he is already applying a block string and gets a hit on his opponent, hit confirm skills would be necessary to know how to continue dealing damage when that kind of opportunity comes along.
    Hence, a player good at hit confirming would know, and would be able to physically pull off, what action to perform after each blocked move or each move that hits. On this topic, we will go in depth into Guy's hit confirming moves and how to practice your skills on that matter.
    Guy's basic hit-confirm moves for block/hit verifying reasons are cr.:lp:, cr.:lk: and target combo :mp: >:hp:.
    Cr.:lp: and cr.:lk: are fast moves, cr.:lk: hits low and has 3 frames start up, cr.:lp: has 4 frames start up and provides easier links, and that is why they are a big part of Guy's ground game. Hence, Guy players love to spam them a lot as hit-confirming moves. Actually, I rarely see a beginner/intermediate Guy player who does anything before hit confirming with 2 of these first. That is all good, after all you can easily go for a bushin chain combo :lp:>:mp:>:hp:>:hk: in case of hit, and in case of block you can keep up with your pressure going for a target combo :mp: >:hp:block string. As I said, this is not a problem and may be the simplest way of offensively approaching with Guy. The problem here is when this becomes more than one approach, when it becomes a habit, when it becomes a pattern of play. It looks like people need to land two shorts before going for the target combo. This, in my opinion, is a trait of lack of confidence in execution (in other terms, in hit confirming). Remember I am not saying that this is not a good combination, I am saying that it is VERY PUNISHABLE if the opponent knows you are going to perform it. On hit, the target combo will combo with the two cr.:lp: (or cr.:lk: ), so no problem. In fact, if you are good at hit-confirming you aren't even following the 2 cr. fast moves with a target combo, you would rather do a bushin chain combo right?
    The problem here is on block. The target combo is a 2 frame link after cr.:lp: or cr.:lk:, but Guy can get hit by invincible reversals (like Honda's EX headbutt, most characters Ultra combos and command grabs) during the space between the two cr.:lp: (or cr.:lk: ) and the target combo (you will see his :mp: animation but he will whiff and get hit), and believe me, YOU WILL GET HIT.
    In resume, crouching fast normals are good for hit confirming, but they do have weak points. That is all I want to show in this topic. However, we will come back to this subject again for further analysis in the final topic of this thread: Guys's Style Revised - How to behave in battle: Ground, Air and Pressure Game.
    Target combo :mp: >:hp: is a nasty normal when it comes to hit confirming. It is not as easy to hit confirm it as it is with 2 or 3 cr. fast normals. But being able to hit confirm target combo, especially during block strings in which you happen to hit the target combo after a series of blocked attacks, is what separates the amateurs from the pros, the scrub from the player. What to do after a target combo both on hit and on block during a fight is also something taken in consideration at the topic listed right above, but here we can already say that being able to perform anything that could come out of a target combo (hand-skills wise), whether it is Run > variations :qcf::k: >:k:, whether it is a Hozanto :qcb::p: or a Bushin Flip :qcf::p:, ON REACTION depending on the situation (block/hit) is maybe the most important thing when playing Guy.
    Training with Guy – Training mode Hit Confirm and Execution Practice Patterns
    Hence, practicing hit confirm is a must for Guy players. I can suggest you the following training patterns to improve your hit confirm skills:

    1 - On training mode, set the dummy defense to random, and try to (in the corner) see if the target combo hits or gets blocked. If it hits you use :lp: Hozanto, if it blocks you use :mp: Hozanto (the :qcb: stick move you do while you input the target combo, more specifically the :hp: part of it, so you just change which button you press depending on the outcome).
    This training is good for getting the Hozantos into your brain muscle, so you can use them properly in different situations. Plus, target combo :mp: >:hp: on block > :mp: Hozanto is a decent counter hit setup.

    2 - Same settings, not necessarily in the corner. On hit Run Slide :qcf::k:>:mk:. On block Run Stop:qcf::k:> :lk: > Kara Throw (plink :mp: with :lp:+:lk: ).
    This training is the best. It is the vital piece to Guy´s pressure game. You will improve here on hit confirming, timing for the Run Stop:qcf::k:> :lk: and Kara throw command input.

    3 - This is harder in terms of execution. Get a friend to move the dummy and ask him to defend crouching or standing randomly. After the target combo, If he stands you do :lp: or :mp: Bushin Flip :qcf::lp: or :qcf: :mp: , if he crouches you do Run Overhead :qcf::k:> :hk:.
    This practice has a flaw since your friend can stand when you are running, it is a good point though, because you will be aware of Guy´s weak points.

    4 - This is another hard one. On block, :lp: or :mp: Bushin Flip. On hit, Run Slide :qcf::k:>:mk:.
    This is more like the real battle. You just changed the Run Stop into the Bushin Flip. This one will heavily help you to know what you are going to do with your hands after the target combo.
    Also, It is important to note here that you can add cr. :lp: or cr. :lk: (one or two) to all of these training patterns. This way, besides practicing hit confirm on target combo and what comes after it, you can also practice on of Guy’s most important links (cr. :lp: or cr. :lk: into st. :mp: ) and plinking (you should plink the first move of the target combo, the :mp: ).

    Understand that I am not saying that you should do those things in a real battle. This is just for enhancing your hand skills on the mechanics of the game. Just so you get used to the motions and then, when you need to do something different in a battle, you have the hand control for making it happen. With these training patterns you will be able to adjust your moves depending on the situation, almost without thinking.

    Practice a lot, I used to practice in training mode something around 30 min a day. Nowadays I do 15 min sessions of training before going to real battles.
    Of course, you can develop your own hit confirm training sets, taking parts from here!
    To see more training patterns, especially those posted by Brunaleski, refer to my previous thread on hit confirming: Guy for beginners/intermidiates - pressure examples and execution/ hit confirming training.
    Last but no less important, I have another hit-confirm challenge especially for intermediate players. In the corner, Learn to hit confirm Hozanto > FADC. This is a tough one man. When you go for that basic pressure tool Hozanto > FADC on block, learn how to see when it hits (and it does hit a lot as people try to jump away, or get counter hit if your Hozanto is the :mp:version, or when the Hozanto comes out of a counter hit setup like far st. :mp:> :lp: Hozanto). What I am trying to say here is you don't go for the HK BSK :qcb: :hk: or EX BSK :qcb: :2k: damage. Instead, go for the Ultra 1. If the Hozanto is blocked you keep going with pressure, sometimes throwing, and sometimes frame trapping. How does this sound? Practicing this in the training mode is not a bad idea at all.
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  • Pedro MarquesPedro Marques I gotta work on my tutorial! Joined: Posts: 214
    Guy's Corner Game - Essential Knowledge
    I have been saying that Guy shines the most in the corner, and pushing your opponent to the corner is very important, etc. It is time we took a deeper look inside of what Guy can actually do in the corner.
    Special thanks to Blooddrunk on this one, as he brought my attention to the importance of this topic in this kind of thread, and helped with important information.
    First of all, only in the corner can you follow almost all your combos with HK BSK :qcb: :hk: or EX BSK :qcb: :2k: for additional damage in aerial juggles. Besides that, Ultra 1 is only FADC comboable, and bushin chain comboable :lp: > :mp: > :hp: > :hk: in the corner or near it (although this might change after the 2012 Ultra 1 range buff). So Hozantos are special moves that not only push your opponent into the corner, but serve for granting more damage when you have them in it. Plus, if your opponent tries to jump out of the corner, the Hozanto would hit him, not letting him get out and granting more aerial juggle damage (even Ultra 1 here is an option).
    As an example of how your offensive game changes in the corner, the combo cr. :hp: > st. :mp:> Run Slide :qcf: :k:> :mk:), when in the corner can be changed into cr. :hp: > st. :mp:> EX Hozanto :qcb: :2p: into HK BSK :qcb: :hk:) or FADC > Ultra 1 (for one of Guy's most devastating combos). In resume, his damage display is the best in the corner. That is the first point to be taken into consideration.
    Besides that, the cross up jump :mk: or Elbow Drop :d:+ :mp:) hitting in the front 50/50 guessing game can be executed perfectly every time in the corner regardless of the distance you are from your opponent when you jump, as long as you are close enough to cross him up (which is not hard with Guy, since he has such a long jump).
    Then, you have the gimmicky mix-up games provided by bushin chain throw :lp: > :mp: > :hp: > :d: :hk:, after you reset your opponent hitting him with a normal while he is in the air. This time this works when you have your back to the corner. This is another point that makes Guy's corner game so strong, it doesn't matter who's in there, you can always throw your opponent back in and there are enough tools to keep him there.
    About the bushin chain throw :lp: > :mp: > :hp: > :d: :hk: mix-up games, the possibilities are several, and we have showed one of them at the Run > Overhead :qcf: :k: > :hk: topic.
    To further explain these possibilities, I'll quote Blooddrunk's post (in 2011/10/25 at my former thread for hit confirming):

    Basically Guy can connect a few normals off that back throw, so you won't always have to go to HK/EX tatsu, Now Guy can do a lot of things in this situation.. and I mean a lot.
    Normals you can connect off for reset:
    St lp, cr lp, st lk, st. mp, cr. mp, cr mk, and cl hp.

    Fake/Cross Up:
    When Guy uses lp, cl lk, or cr mp. You can fake cross up or cross up the opponent as they are reset with forward dash, To cross up you have to wait for them to be in the back flip motion, just practice and learn the timing I do believe Obey or someone has a video of this, The Cross up is safe against 4 frame reversals, but anything below will hit you, If you do it right after the lp or before the time you can cross up, you'll land in front of the opponent, This is good to know especially if you play against someone that doesn't mash reversals and would rather block, or doesn't have meter to make anything safe. Also the mixup gives a lot of potential. (might have different timings for certain characters)

    Cross up:
    If you use cr mk. Guy will always cross up if you do an immediate fwd dash.

    Cancel into Runstop:
    Runstop will lead you to land in front of them but you can go for frame traps etc. You will be safe from everything.
    You can cancel into Run overhead depending on the timing you will either hit them with the last frame or whiff so you can use that to your advantage maybe.

    Just a few things if you ever cross up your opponent in the corner or are in range for whatever.
    As far as I've tested you cannot 1 frame Bushin Flip them but elbow can be used, and just mix it up with Guys fwd mp and throw. etc.

    Finally, here is a very good video on Guy's corner mix-up abilities:
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  • Pedro MarquesPedro Marques I gotta work on my tutorial! Joined: Posts: 214
    Guy's Style Revised - How to behave in battle: Safe Ground, Air and Pressure games
    First of all, have in mind that this thread does not aim to explain character specific matters. So in this topic we are going to discuss how a Guy player should behave in general, as our aim here is to teach beginners/intermediates. I will mainly talk about bad habits players have, in other words, what you should be doing and what should you avoid doing, adding some tips here and there that could help solidifying your gameplay with Guy. Having that said, let us get to the point.
    Guy in Battle
    Earlier when I introduced Guy in the topic About Guy, I had five key words in bold letters that, in my opinion, best define him: punish, bait, pretend, pressure and safe.
    Guy's punishes deal loads of damage, and both of his Ultras are best used in punishing situations. But, in order to punish you can't rely ONLY on your opponent making mistakes, so you need to bait mistakes out, and Guy has many tools for that (Run Stop :qcf: :k: >:lk:, Elbow Drop :d: + :mp:, counter hit set-ups). Guy is not a rush down character, but pretending to be one is great part of his game. Guy's pressure game, namely block strings, Hozantos :qcb: :p:> FADC, Run and variations :qcf: :k: > :k:, Kara Throw (plink :mp: with :lp: + :lk: ) and counter hit setups may not be the best in the game, but when applied properly they're decent enough. Not taking risks, baiting and pretending more than rushing down, and applying proper pressure are really all about one thing: staying safe, the main key word for Guy. I've heard Gootecks say once that Street Fighter is a game about who stays alive the longest, not about who deals more damage, and with Guy it couldn't be different.
    I think this has to be clear to anybody who intends on playing Guy seriously. Once one understands that Guy has to be played in a careful and swift way, then growing in gameplay is just a matter of time.
    Now let's talk about how to play Guy safely, when in ground, air and when applying pressure.
    Ground Game and its Pressure
    On ground, Guy has many disadvantages. His walk speed (although the walk back speed is going to be increased in 2012 version), his throw, his dashes and his Focus Attack are not so good. He lacks on footsie games for two reasons: one is because of his crappy walk speed, it is really hard to adjust the distance between you and your opponent, and the another one is because he does not possess many good pokes aside from st. :mp: (target combo from near distances) and mainly st. :mk:, which are both so-so. Also, his roundhouse/slide kick :d: or :db: :hk: couldn't be worse so, as long as you don't get near the opponent, you will see yourself throwing the above two a lot, but Guy is no Chun Li, you can't win only with pokes.
    And it can be hard to get in with Guy. I think Guy's ground game is all about how are you getting in and what to do in order to stay in. A LV2 FA would solve this problem, but not everybody would stand there just waiting for you to charge it.
    Here is where the baiting/pretending game comes along. Pretend to charge FA and immediately dashing forward, Run Stopping like an idiot by yourself and eventually risking (it is not safe at all but) a Run > Overhead :qcf: :k: > :hk:, using the EX Run in some situations to absorb a hit, are the only answers you have to approach the opponent if he does not throw you a bone to you (jump in on you, throw a fireball you can go under with Hozantos or jump over, etc.) and you are doing it without jumping in and without getting near enough for a st. :mp: > :lp: Hozanto. This last one is safe on block (-1 frames) and is actually the best option to approach from the ground without taking any risks. After a blocked :lp: Hozanto, you can risk a cr. fast move, walk a little bit and go for a cl. st. :mk: or even a cr. :hp: as counter hit setups. But we will get to it at the Target Combo in Pressure Game topic, and Counter Hits - How to Hit and How to Follow topic.
    More importantly for now is understanding that if you have two bars to spend, the Hozanto becomes not only the safest ground approach you can perform with Guy, but also his best pressure weapon. According to str[e]ak's calculation of block stun and frame advantage, on block, :lp: Hozanto > FADC leaves you at +1 frames, :mp: also leaves you at +1, and :hp: leaves you at -3 (which is not that good nor it's too bad, but you're not going to use this version very often anyways). In case you're wondering, his math goes like this:
    Block Stun of LP Hozanto = (Active - 1) + (Recovery) + (On Block)
    Block Stun of LP Hozanto = (3 - 1) + (21) + (-1)
    Block Stun of LP Hozanto = 2 + 21 - 1
    Block Stun of LP Hozanto = 22 frames
    Frame Advantage on Block = (Block Stun) - (Forward Dash - 1) - (Uncancellable Frames)
    Frame Advantage on Block = (22) - (18 - 1) - (4)
    Frame Advantage on Block = 22 - 17 - 4
    Frame Advantage on Block = +1 (LP Hozanto > FADC)

    Block Stun of MP Hozanto = (Active - 1) + (Recovery) + (On Block)
    Block Stun of MP Hozanto = (3 - 1) + (22) + (-2)
    Block Stun of MP Hozanto = 2 + 22 - 2
    Block Stun of MP Hozanto = 22 frames
    Frame Advantage on Block = (Block Stun) - (Forward Dash - 1) - (Uncancellable Frames)
    Frame Advantage on Block = (22) - (18 - 1) - (4)
    Frame Advantage on Block = 22 - 17 - 4
    Frame Advantage on Block = +1 (MP Hozanto > FADC)

    Block Stun of HP Hozanto = (Active - 1) + (Recovery) + (On Block)
    Block Stun of HP Hozanto = (3 - 1) + (22) + (-6)
    Block Stun of HP Hozanto = 2 + 22 - 6
    Block Stun of HP Hozanto = 18 frames
    Frame Advantage on Block = (Block Stun) - (Forward Dash - 1) - (Uncancellable Frames)
    Frame Advantage on Block = (18) - (18 - 1) - (4)
    Frame Advantage on Block = 18 - 17 - 4
    Frame Advantage on Block = -3 (HP Hozanto > FADC)

    Now, this +1 frame practically guarantees your further pressure, as long as your opponent does not mash an invincible reversal.
    Once you are in, Guy's ground game takes a totally different form. Now you have to be careful with reversals, since Guy has many gaps in between his block strings. So even when you are in, you have to apply pressure with care, always trying to be as safe as possible.
    Once you are in, knowing how to mix throws with frame traps (for counter hit setups) and how to properly use target combo :mp: > :hp: is of vital importance when applying pressure. Let us take a look at those two separately.
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  • Pedro MarquesPedro Marques I gotta work on my tutorial! Joined: Posts: 214
    Target Combo in pressure game
    Before going at how should you use target combo :mp: > :hp: in a fight, first I would like to briefly talk about how you should NOT use it. Specifically, about bad habits in offensive approaches.
    I see that early-stage Guy players tend to evolve habits in their pressure attempts once they are in. Concretely, I see that a lot of American players (through videos in YouTube) in beginner or intermediate level have the habit of always finishing the target combo :mp: > :hp: with :lp: Hozanto :qcb: + :lp:, both on hit and on block. This is a really bad habit and I think it is the first wall you have to break in order to grow with Guy.
    Of course, :mp: > :hp: > :lp: Hozanto is not a bad move on hit at all. It pushes your opponent back to the corner (which is where Guy shines the most), and especially when you are in the corner (or near it) you can follow up with HK BSK :qcb: :hk: or FADC > Ultra 1. Understand that what I am saying that is a bad habit here is doing :mp: > :hp: > :lp: Hozanto ALWAYS. Because Guy is more than that, and has more offensive options which normally people do not realize, or even realizing them, cannot execute (for lacking hand skills to do so).
    So my friends, what should you be doing to follow a target combo :mp: > :hp: ?
    On hit
    Unless you are in the corner or wanting to push your opponent there (then you would be better using the :lp: Hozanto), you should perform a Run Slide :qcf: :k:> :mk:. The reasons are, as we have seem:

    1- The damage is higher
    2- You will be positioned for a perfect neutral safe jump and will be able to apply further pressure, since :lp: Hozanto pushes the opponent away and the Shadow Kick does not.

    For the neutral safe jump, you can use :mk: (buffered with a different option select depending on the character you are facing), or a :lp:, :lk:, :mp: or even a :hp:. The best one hitbox, damage and block stun wise is the :mk: (that until 2012 version comes by, then it will probably be :hp: ), though it is kind of hard to get the timing, once you get it its a piece of cake. The safest and easiest to land is :lp:, but the option select input after it is hard to get (strict timing). I like to mix :lp:, :lk: and :mk:, so the adversary never knows what to expect. I know the outcome is going to be the same (they are going to have to defend on waking up, or attempt for a reversal, which is what we want, since we can simply guard and punish them), but the simple fact of using different normals changes the animation and that makes your opponent think you are doing something different, which prevents him from knowing you, from reading you.
    One more thing about this neutral safe jump after a landed Shadow Kick. You can PRETEND to attack high, and hit low with 2 cr. :lk:, baiting them into a bushin chain :lp: > :mp: > :hp: > :hk:.
    Remember also that you can't safe jump 3 frame reversal characters (Ryu, Ken, Akuma, etc). This means you are going to get dragon punched in the face. One option to deal with that, is to delay the neutral jump and get them with EX KIO :qcf: :2p: (in the air), so you induce them to stop mashing DP on wake up. Another one would be empty jump them, so you would have time to land and block the reversal (you will get hit if you press a button, in other words make a move in the air).
    On block
    Now, on block you have much better options than a :lp: Hozanto (unless you are willing to FADC and get in, or keep it in safely). But when I say doing this all the time is a bad habit, I mean Guy's game is all about pressuring your opponent into mistakes, and if you do it all the time he WILL know that the Hozanto is coming after those two punches, and it gets easy to defend your attacks right?
    We have talked about this at the Hit confirming topic, but I can't say this enough: it is of EXTREME importance with Guy, such a technical character, to be able to perform different moves ON REACTION after Guy's target combo. So, there are three main options to take after a target combo on block:
    Run Stop :qcf: :k: >:lk: and its variations, Bushin Flip :qcf: :p:, and the Hozanto you have been doing :qcb: :p:.
    I am going through these 3 separately. Then I'll introduce another not-so-standard choice, as a fourth option.

    1) Run Stop :qcf: :k: >:lk: and its variations
    First of all, you can simply run and stop, trying to bait out some reversal. That is the first pattern (used to exhaustion by my friend Kiryu Tsukimiya). What does he do? He runs, stops, waits (one second, if that) to see if a reversal is coming out, and if not he keeps his pressure either with cr.
    :lk:or cr. :lp:, or with far st. :mp: > :lp: Hozanto (which btw is a great way to use :lp: Hozanto, the best no doubt), baiting a counter attack.
    Target combo ( :mp: > :hp: ) > Run Stop :qcf: :k: >:lk: is in fact one of the best (or should I say safest) pressure attempt move (-2 frames) Guy has, since you don't have 2 bars to spend on a Hozanto > FADC (+1 frames) all the time. But it has one big flaw. You have to be careful with what you are doing after it. That is because your opponent can learn how to deal with it faster than you would like. He just needs to wait a little longer to kick the shit out of you with that Shoryuken. In other cases, (especially when it comes to characters that have fast jabs or shorts, like Boxer or Chun li), you can get kicked or punched and then be forced into a block string if they are mashing cr. :lp: or cr. :lk:.
    Now this is where the Run Stop variations come into the scene. You HAVE to mix shit up with guy, remember, the less the opponent can read you the best it is when you main Guy. So, after running and stopping, you can:

    1- Kara Throw (plink :mp: with :lp: + :lk: )
    2- Run Overhead :qcf: :k: > :hk: (NOT SAFE ON BLOCK)
    3- Run Slide :qcf: :k: > :mk: into FADC > Focus Attack for a counter hit, or FADC > :f: :f: > Ultra 2
    4- Ultra 2 :hcb: :hcb: :3p:
    5- Cr. :lp: or cr. :lk:
    6- Cr. :hp: (frame trap)
    7- Walk a bit > cl. st. :mk: (frame trap)
    8- Walk a bit > cl. st. :hp: (frame trap)
    9- Walk a bit > another target combo :mp: >:hp: (frame trap)
    10- :mp: > :lp: Hozanto (frame trap)
    11- Immediate far st. :mk: (frame trap) (works wonders against cr. fast normals mashers)
    etc...
    The above list goes on endlessly. Just be sure to mix all of that up depending on what your opponent does (on guys that like to crouch do the Run Overhead :qcf: :k: >:hk: to force them to stand (though this is risky), throw more guys that mash cr. :lk:, if they have a fast cr. normal you could go for an EX BSK (invencible frames, although very risky if you miss), or a far st. :mk: as long as you stop far enough (the hit box is perfect for this case, since they can’t hit you low unless they are really close, and you will counter hit them during their cr. normal animation, worst case scenario you will trade) as we have stated in the Run Stop :qcf: :k: >:lk: topic, and etc.
    Remember that the Run Stop pressure I am talking about here is after a target combo (safe on block), not the one after a far :mp: (not safe on block). By safe here, I mean that you will have time to defend the reversal, if your opponent is mashing one, after the animation of running and stopping. The only safe Run Stop in that sense is the one that comes out of the target combo. We will talk more about this later in the 1, 2 or 3 cr. :lp: /:lk: ? topic.
    I must also warn you that the Run Stop game is completely unsafe against grapplers (Zangief, Hakan, T. Hawk), so you better be prepared to lose if you try it at them.
    2) Bushin Flip :qcf: :p:
    In a not so high level match, normally I give the unsafe Run Overhead
    :qcf::k: > :hk: a chance against people who have the habit to guard crouching. Then, if they are smart they will stand on the next time, waiting for the Run Overhead. That's when you use the :lp: Bushin Flip. If they keep crouching, luckily you can hit them with the elbow drop for further pressure. Worst case scenario everything whiffs and you'll eat dirt.
    As we have discussed in the Bushin Flip :qcf: :p: topic. Another tip is that the :mp: Bushin Flip, although not exactly safe, has a good chance of counter hitting people who like to throw cr. low profile moves out like crazy at Guy. As soon as they see you flying they already press that goddamn button. But unfortunately for them, the :mp: version goes higher and takes more time for the elbow drop to land. Once you've hit them with the elbow, a cr. :lp: or cr. :lk: links are perfectly viable. So out of this single move you can get yourself a bushin chain combo :lp: >:mp: >:hp: >:hk: setup, that could even lead into an Ultra1 in the corner. If I were you I would practice this one a lot in the training mode. If by any chance they guard your elbow, you are up for brand new counter hit setups like, cl. st. :mk:, cl. st. :hp: or even a new target combo :mp: > :hp:.
    On the other hand, if they mash a reversal, a :lp: Shoryuken for example (unless it auto-corrects) you will grab them from behind. Worst case scenario here, you don't grab them and you just fly away out of danger, just the way we have stated before. Kiryu Tsukimiya likes to do this against shotos a lot.
    Just for the record, I must remind you again that this move is not the safest move to do out of a target combo on block, though.

    3) :lp: Hozanto and :mp: Hozanto
    :mp: Hozanto is a great move when you have conditioned your opponent to think you are going to Run Stop > Throw them, or when you are dealing with someone who spams fast low normals, for instance a boxer with his cr. jabs. The :mp: Hozanto is a bit slower to hit, so it will get them in the animation of their cr. jabs. I use and abuse this in the corner. It has done wonders for me. And for this one I have to give the credits to Mago, as he was the one who invented it with me, and I have never seen other Guy players doing it.
    :lp: Hozanto is only for chip damage or for baiting a counter attack, although I don't think that is going to happen very often (not after a target combo, it is more likely to happen after a far :mp: ). Some players here in Japan like to FADC a blocked :lp: Hozanto into Ultra 2, but then again, if your opponent did not mash normals he can jump out of it. In other words, FADC after :lp: Hozanto into Ultra 2 is gambling.
    Instead, you should use those two spent bars to keep going with the pressure, as we have stated above. After Hozanto > FADC on block, there are a few options to take in order to keep up with your offensive pressure:

    1- Crouching fast normals, namely :lp: and :lk: (preferably only 1, get the hit confirm nailed on this one). This option is the most useful, once you are in they are the moves you are going to use more, and they provide many different outcomes:
    1a- Another target combo :mp: > :hp: on block or hit, restarting the whole process again.
    1b- Bushin chain combo :lp: > :mp: > :hp: > :hk: on hit.
    1c- Counter hit set-ups (AKA frame traps) like cr. :hp: (this comes out kind of slow so it is not recommended against 3 frame cr. normals, like Chun-li’s or Boxer’s), cl. st. :hp:, cl. st. :mk: and target combo :mp: > :hp: slightly delayed.
    1d- Kara throw (plink :mp: with :lp: + :lk: )
    1e- Block or backdash to bait a reversal.

    2- Kara throw (plink :mp: with :lp: + :lk: )
    3- Ultra 2 (comented above).

    4) Run Slide :qcf: :k: > :mk: > FADC
    Finally, still about target combo, Run Slide :qcf: :k: > :mk: > FADC is also a possible option on block. After FADCing you can go for the Focus Attack counter hit setup (just releasing the :mk: and :mp: buttons), or dash forward, aiming for an approach very much alike the Hozanto > FADC one. Legendary Otaku uses this a lot as one of his ground pressure tools since not so many people FADC from Run Slide, and they might try to cr. fast move mash you, or throw you out of the blocked Shadow Kick. Plus, if your Focus Attack does hit as counter hit, you will have a crumple and the opportunity of punishing the opponent big time, with an Ultra or a big combo. on block, you can follow up with the same options listed above.

    Target Combo "Vortex"
    In resume, about possible options after a blocked target combo, there are two things that are remarkably noticeable, as they are possible to be done after any move you decide to take after the target combo: another target combo and counter hit setups (frame traps). It doesn’t matter if it is after Run Stop, a blocked elbow that came from a Bushin Flip, a blocked Hozanto > FADC or a Run Slide > FADC. These two outcomes (plus throwing, which makes pair with frame trapping) are always present.
    I find it funny how target combo comes back to itself in a target combo > something > target combo > something > ... kind of vortex. This vortex, in my humble opinion, is the very heartstring of Guy’s pressure game, alongside with the throw/frame trap pair we are going to discuss now.
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  • Pedro MarquesPedro Marques I gotta work on my tutorial! Joined: Posts: 214
    Counter hits – How to Hit and How to Follow
    Before I even start, I heavily advise you to take a look into AlboShinobi‘s
    Bushin Frame Trap/Counter Hit setups thread. You can find tons of detailed info there, so I’ll limit myself here to only introduce the counter hits and their role in Guy’s offensive game.
    We have seem that frame traps are situations you create when in offense, in other words applying a block string, in which your opponent, trying to tech throw you (thinking you may attempt a throw at the next move) or trying to hit you with a fast normal, is caught by your next move before his move becomes active. In order to create those situations, you have to create a little frame gap between your attacks. For example, if you are hitting a block string with cr. :lp:, you can create a gap following that with cl. st. :hp:. Specifically, cr. :lp: leaves you at +2 frames on block, and cl. St. :hp: has a start up of 5 frames. Now imagine Cody blocked your cr. :lp: and during his block animation, he pressed a cr. :lp: himself. His cr. :lp: start up is of 4 frames. In an ideal situation (in real life the numbers vary a lot, since one frame is such a small amount of time that cannot even be seen with the naked eye), your cl. st. :hp: started 2 frames before his cr. :lp:, which means your move is going to hit him 1 frame before his move is active (but is on its way out), so you will strike him a counter hit. Now if your opponent does not mash a normal on block, you might as well walk forward a little bit before inputting the slower move that would create the frame trap, baiting some cr. fast normal out. Good players have to know this counter-hit-setup-forward-walk well, as people don’t always mash buttons when under pressure at a higher level of gameplay.
    Moving on, we have also stated that Guy’s best normals for creating frame traps are st. :mp:, cl. st. :hp:, cl. st. :mk:, cr. :mp: and cr. :hp:. So, you only need to perform one of these moves after a move that they wouldn’t link with (if they would link, delay the input a bit). The basic options here are the above exemplified cr. fast normals: cr. :lp: and cr. :lk: and the situations listed in the Target Combo in pressure game topic we have seen, namely after a target combo > Run Stop, a blocked Elbow that came from a Bushin Flip, a blocked Hozanto > FADC or a Run Slide > FADC.
    Now, after you have actually landed a counter hit, what moves should you be using to follow up for further damage? This really depends on what move you used to get the counter hit. Let’s take a look into the basic ones, understanding their characteristics and what can be done after a counter hit with them:

    0- Target combo :mp: > :hp:
    Since we have talked about what to do after a target combo on block or on hit, I will just skip this one's description here, but keep in mind that especially after a single cr. :lp: or cr. :lk:, target combo is a GREAT option for frame trapping, definitely the best option (and that is why we had a special topic for it, it has many options and Guy's offensive game ultimately goes around it).
    1- st. :mp:
    If it is a far st. :mp:, :lp: Hozanto comboes on counter hit. Also if you are close enough you can follow with a st. :hp: for a target combo, and from there Run Slide :qcf: :k: > :mk: or :lp: Hozanto. Run Slide :qcf: :k: > :mk: or EX Hozanto :qcb: :2p: straight out of the counter hit st. :mp: are also options. But this is a poor counter hit move to be honest. Now if what we are talking here is a close st. :mp:, the story changes completely. There is a whole world of following up here, including all the previous options, plus another far. st. :mp: (though it is a tough link, 1 frame I think) into Run Slide :qcf: :k: > :mk: or EX Hozanto :qcb: :2p:, or target combo depending on the character. Far st. :hp: and far st. :hk: are also options here, but with no potential of knockdown or further combos.
    Also, when a cl. st. :mp: lands as a counter hit, it is possible to link cr. :lk: or cr. :lp: after Run Stop :qcf: :k: > :lk:. The whole thing would look like this: CH cl.st. :mp: > Run Stop :qcf: :k: > :lk: > cr. :lk: or cr. :lp: > bushin chain :lp: > :mp: > :hp: > :hk: (refer to Nox2 highlights video below, there is a slow motion of this one):
    2- cl. st. :hp:
    Bushin chain combo :lp: > :mp: > :hp: > :hk:, far st. :mp:, :lp: Hozanto are possibly the best follow ups here. Cl. st. :hp: has a very fast start up for a strong move (5 frames), so I advise this one against 3 frames cr. normals.
    3- cl. st. :mk:
    I especially enjoy this one. Although the start up is kind of slow (7 frames), this move is completely safe on block, and more: it creates another frame trap situation if you follow it with target combo :mp: > :hp: on block. So with this one its two rabbits with one rock (of course throwing in between is also a very good option here). The best follow ups here are target combo :mp: > :hp: and bushin chain :lp: > :mp: > :hp: > :hk:.
    4- cr. :mp:
    This one is as much used as it should be. It is definitely one of the best, if not THE best move for a counter hit set up if you are close to the opponent. It is safe on block and also creates another frame trap situation if you follow it on block with a far st. :mp:. The startup is 6 frames, which is not bad as well. The problem here is the limitation in follow up moves if you are not very close to the opponent. Is case you are a bit far, the only follow ups possible are far st. :mk: (useless) and far st. :mp:, that can be followed with Run Slide :qcf: :k: > :mk: or EX Hozanto :qcb: :2p:. Now, if you are close enough, another target combo :mp: > :hp:, bushin chain :lp: > :mp: > :hp: > :hk: and even cr. normals for hit confirming are possible. On top of that, if you do it after a single blocked cr. :lp: (cr. :lp: deals better blockstun on your opponent than cr. :lk:), you have the best frame trap for crouchers that spam cr. fast normals. So this one is great against Chun Lis, Sakuras, Boxers, etc.
    5-cr. :hp:
    This one has a slower start up (9 frames), but the damage that can be dealt if you land a hit totally makes up for the frames. On a personal note, I don’t know why but I have had more success landing this counter hit after 2 cr. fast moves ( :lp: or :lk: ) rather than after only 1.
    The things that can be done here are far st, :mp: (into its specials, btw the most common follow up in this case), and surprise surprise, target combo :mp: > :hp: and bushin chain :lp: > :mp: > :hp: > :hk: if you walk a tiny bit after landing the counter hit cr. :hp:. This is possible because of the +11 frames you are left at by this counter hit, and although the timing is strict, these follow ups are really sexy. If you actually manage to land the target combo in the corner you can follow that with a :lp: Hozanto, and it will most likely hit on the 3rd frame of the move, which may enable Guy to do U1 without doing an FADC! This is character specific though. Many thanks to Blooddrunk for this finding. I will just quote his words about what you can do after a counter hit cr. :hp:
    So I compiled the list for the Counter Hit Cr HP, Timing can be really strict for characters and it may be better to just do TC, Runslide or BC it's all up to you if you want to take the gamble of doing this, this can be done to most of the cast after cr lp > Cr Hp. Also if it helps a plinked cr Hp does inch Guy a little forward (you can test it in Training mode and have Guy glide across the screen,) If you manage to hit a Cr HP at max range and its a CH if you have meter you can do an EX hozanto. Most and best of all, on every character that LP hozanto will hit you can tack on a meterless U1, for 506 damage. Its also easier to tack on a EX hozanto or HK/EX Tatsu after the LP Hoz. Remember you have to walk forward to do all of this, and Cr HP leaves you at +11 so you have at most 6-7 frames to do all this respectively.
    CH Cr HP - TC - LP Hozanto
    Honda
    Dudley
    Gouken
    Yun
    Sim
    Abel
    Cody
    Guy
    Hakan
    Yang
    Guile
    Gief
    Rufus
    Vega/Claw
    Rog/Boxer
    Fei
    Hawk
    CH Cr HP - BC
    Honda
    Makoto
    Gouken
    Gen
    Yun
    Chun
    Sim
    Abel
    Viper
    Bison/Dict
    Deejay
    Cody
    Guy
    Hakan
    Yang
    Guile
    Fuerte
    Vega/Claw
    Rog/Boxer
    Hawk
    Adon
    CH Cr HP >TC
    Makoto
    Juri
    Chun
    Bison/Dict
    Cammy
    Deejay
    Sagat is unique, in the case where regardless if the Cr HP is a counter hit or not you can connect TC or BC without walking forward. For a regular hit though you'll have to delay the st mp a bit otherwise you'll miss the TC, Lp Hozanto will connect on Sagat, and U1 is doable if it helps on a CH Cr HP you can inch back a small bit so you'll manage to hit on the later frame but Sagat is the only character that is unique in this case.
    Everyone else this method does not work on them as they will be too far for BC or TC to connect.

    Also another CH combo, this only works on some of the cast but CH cr MP will link to Cl St HK or HK for that matter, and for characters with the bigger hitboxes that this works on you can still do the Cl St HK, St Hp, St mp combo to them. With an FADC U1 you'll do 568.

    6- Overhead :f: :mp:
    Less importantly damage wise, but also useful as a counter hit between block strings is Guy’s overhead :f: :mp:. Throwing out one of those here and there always helps to mindfu** your opponent, who will most likely get in despair and start to reversal you. That is a good way to start baiting things out with Guy, for bigger damage. Also, if you hit them once with this, they are most likely to stand the next time you try it. Now, I think you remember that Guy's overhead can be cancelled into any of his special moves in its initial frames (as long as it doesn't hit). So, here you could try an overhead > cancel into :lp: Bushin Flip, to get them as they try to block high. Also, and this is some unorthodox approach, you could go for a overhead > cancelled into Run > Shadow kick :qcf: :k: > :mk:. If he blocks, as long you have two bars to spend, you can FADC to keep it on with the pressure, or you can FADC > release for the Focus Attack and then dash forward, baiting another counter hit with the Focus Attack. I haven't seen this much, but I think this is really something to try out in battle. Actually this is more like an advanced approach, but whatever.

    Finally, It is of the greatest importance to note that all frame traps and counter hit setups only work if your opponent presses a button, most commonly trying to tech throw you. So, and I think you already know what I am about to say, you have to condition them to try to tech throw you, always attempting to throw here and there, otherwise your counter hit game won’t be so useful.
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  • Pedro MarquesPedro Marques I gotta work on my tutorial! Joined: Posts: 214
    1, 2 or 3 cr. :lp: / :lk: ?
    Lots of Beginners/intermediates I see in random replays on the internet, actually almost all of them, ALWAYS use 2 or 3 cr. fast normals before doing something else. This is a very bad habit and let's analyze why.
    It is not the two cr. :lp: > one cr. :lk: (three low attacks), or two cr. :lk: (two low attacks) or any sequence of these themselves that make this a bad habit. If you perform the link correctly (and you should be doing it, unless you are intentionally delaying the inputs, aiming for a counter hit), as long as your opponent is not a reversal-mashing worm, you should be fine. Actually, if you stop and block after these cr. fast moves you might as well even bait some reversal Shoryuken out.
    The problem here is ALWAYS using the SAME number of cr. fast normals, then going for the st. :mp: , or the target combo routine. There is a gap between the cr. normals and the st. :mp:, so the possibility of getting hit by a reversal exists. Now, when you ALWAYS perform the SAME number of cr. fast normals into st. :mp: this possibility turns into a certain hit you’re gonna eat. And then you are going to cry, come here at Shoryuken.com complaining about your life, saying Guy is low-tier. So mix it up my friend! You don't want your opponent to know when that st. :mp: is coming out do you?
    Now, there is also another point to make clear about the 1, 2 or 3 cr. fast normals issue. Because even if we supposed you wouldn't get hit, there are still some things to take into consideration here, as the extent of your game completely changes depending on the number of cr. fast normals you use.
    First, 3 cr. fast moves pushes Guy back and your :mp: is going to be a far one. As we know, the Run Stop is completely not safe from there (refer to the Run Stop topic for detailed numbers). Of course, you can say you do :lp: Hozanto after far st. :mp: when on block aiming for a counter, that is all good, but this one is also not safe against reversals. I know life is not all about being safe. This is just the first reason why 3 cr. fast normals suck.
    Then, you can say that even two cr. fast moves push Guy away, and the :mp: is going to be a far st. :mp: anyways...And I would agree with you, 2 moves and 3 moves are exactly the same on that issue. However, thinking from another perspective, namely the second reason, which is damage, there are some things that make 2 moves still better than 3:
    One is that we have the scaling in combos, so you should not be wasting 3 hits on low damage moves.
    For instance:
    *Always keeping in mind that cr. :lp: and cr. :lk: deal the same damage in AE
    2 cr. :lp: > 1 cr. :lk: > far st. :mp: > Run Slide :qcf: :k: > :mk: deals 164 damage.
    2 cr. :lp: > far st. :mp: > Run Slide :qcf: :k: > :mk: deals 165 damage.
    2 cr. :lp: > 1 cr. :lk: > far st. :mp: > EX Hozanto :qcb: :2p: deals 170 damage (in corner, with HK BSK juggle damage totals = 215).
    2 cr. :lp: > far st. :mp: > EX Hozanto :qcb: :2p: deals 172 damage (in corner, with HK BSK juggle damage totals = 226).
    Then you can say to me that these damage differences are small and mean nothing (which I would completely disagree with, as we are always facing close battles, they could make the difference), and that would bring to the conversation yet another thing, still about damage: you can do a complete target combo (not on some characters, thanks Capcom, but anyways...) after :mp: if you do up to 2 cr. fast moves. The full target combo deals more damage and you can combo :lp: Hozanto to follow it (which is not possible to do after far st. :mp: ). In the corner, for the juggle damage or even an Ultra, you definitely want that.
    I think I do not even need to go through the examples here, since the damage difference this time is huge, but I'll state them just in case:
    2 cr. :lp: > Target combo :mp: > :hp: > Run Slide :qcf: :k: > :mk: deals 182 damage
    2 cr. :lp: > Target combo :mp: > :hp: > :lp: hozanto deals 164 damage (in corner, with HK BSK juggle damage total = 209)
    2 cr. :lp: > Target combo :mp: > :hp: > EX hozanto :qcb: :2p: deals 188 damage (in corner, with HK BSK juggle damage total = 233)
    2 cr. :lp: > Target combo :mp: > :hp: > :qcb::mk: deals 206 damage
    etc.
    The final thing about damage and comboing would be that you can land a bushin chain combo :lp: > :mp: > :hp: > :hk: after up to 2 cr. fast moves, which is not possible after 3 (at least on most occasions). That is a whole new world of damage (could be fallowed with HK BSK, EX Hozanto, Ultra 1 etc., all depending on the situation and position on the screen).
    Third reason would be frame advantage, and coming back to the safety talk, the only completely safe Run Stop comes out of the target combo, as we have seen many times. But again, the target combo is not doable after 3 cr. fast moves. Hence, far st. :mp: has worse frame advantage than close st. :mp: on block. Namely, far st. :mp: leaves you at - 4 frames and close st. :mp: at +1 frames. That alone is already bad enough. Run Stop out of st. close :mp:, although not safe against DP reversals, is definitely safer than out of far st. :mp:.
    But in order to perform close st. :mp: you would have to use only 1 cr. fast move (which btw is also better for damage scale reasons), which brings me to the conclusion that:
    1 move > 2 moves > 3 moves
    I know, this is a very arguable conclusion. Some people like 2 moves for hit confirming, some people like to use 3 moves for baiting reversals out. Sometimes indeed 2 moves or even 3 moves are better than only 1 move, because let us be honest, it is hard to play only using one cr. :lp: or cr. :lk: before going for target combos, specials and etc. In resume, mixing -up between these three, and in my opinion, mostly between 2 and 1, is the key for a solid and safer Guy, who also deals good damage.
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  • Pedro MarquesPedro Marques I gotta work on my tutorial! Joined: Posts: 214
    Air game and its pressure air-to-air and safe jumps
    Finally, let's talk a little about Guy's game when he is in the air, revising his tools for offensive and defensive air game, Jump ins and talking a bit about safe jumps.
    We have seen in the Air Normals topic that Guys decent air-to-air are :hp:, :mp: and :mk: (which btw is his only normal for crossing up), his jump ins are manly done with :hk: or :mp: inputted deep (for getting low profile ducking moves), and in the Kaiten Izuna Otoshi topic, that his aerial command grab :qcf: :p: (in the air) kicks ass, both air-to-air and anti-air (instant version: :qcf: :uf:, :qcf: :u:, :qcf: :ub: ). Also, do not forget Guy's wall jump, a move that can be used as a get-out-of-jail card to escape the corner, or to cover big distances through the screen when in a jump in situation like jumping over a projectile. Finally, Elbow drop :d: + :mp: although unsafe and underdeveloped can be used to bait reversals from safe distances.
    But can Guy really apply pressure from the air? Although that is not safe to do against all characters (especially when facing shotos you really should stay on the ground most of the time), the answer is yes. A big part of that pressure comes out of the neutral safe jump after a landed Run Slide :qcf: :k: > :mk:, as pointed in the above Target Combo topic. But aside from that one, Guy has two other basic safe jump setups: after a neutral or forward throw and after a back throw. Detailed info on safe jump can be checked at the Safe Jumps and Cross ups thread, as here we are only going through these two basic ones, without taking character specificity into consideration.

    Basically:
    After a neutral or forward throw: dash forward > cr. :hp: or st. :hk: (depending on the character) > forward jump grants a safe jump.
    After a back throw: cr. :hp: or st. :hk: (depending on the character) > forward jump grants a safe jump. This one is especially useful, because you can mix the cross up with :mk: and the frontal attack with Elbow Drop :d: + :mp:, creating a guessing game for your opponent to deal with.
    Here are two simple videos that show these in action:



    Also, there is a very solid safe jump from back throw, against 5 frame reversals (characters on the description of the video) by obey562:


    There is also another safe jump that should be known even by players who have just started. The Wall Jump safe jump after a forward throw. Instead of explaining here, I'll link the explaining video:


    Still on safe jumps, Guy has an unblockable (or should I say "hard to block") safe jump set-up that works even against shotos, (but can be stuffed with that goddamn low profile cr. move).
    It comes out of a back throw: st. :hk: > forward jump for the cross up with :mk:.
    There is also a video for this one, and further discussion in the Guy's unblockable j. MK. thread.

    Finally, I must alert you guys here that the safe jump: forward throw > jump forward > jump forward > cross up with :mk: or frontal attack with Elbow drop :d: + :mp: IS NOT A SAFE JUMP. Though it does create a guessing situation, it can be blown off with a reversal, so do not abuse it!

    Also, after a landed rounhouse :d: :hk:, the best option would be a neutral safejump, just because its keeps pressure on them and you can use Option Select if they try to get away. But you can always pressure with throws/normals, 1 frame EX bushin flip set ups, but really your best option here is this safejump. Thanks to Blooddrunk for reminding me of this one.

    After a landed Bushin Flip throw, you'll have another safejump, you can, depending on the character, and their wake up cross them up or dash in :lp: Bushin Flip for a 1 frame or spend a bar and do an EX one. The :lp: Bushin flip is highly recommended in terms of the corner if you have a reversal happy player, as most reversals will whiff because you will be behind them and they won't be able to autocorrect, though some do autocorrect (like Dee Jay's). Thanks to Blooddrunk for reminding me of this one too.

    In resume, aside from some specific situations like the ones listed above, especially the safe jumps, the bait with elbow drop and the correct use of Kaiten Izuna Otoshi, I must say that Guy's game does not revolve around aerial fighting too much. Of course, Kaiten Izuna Otoshi is an awesome move, and beats almost everything in the game clean, so players who are good at using it dominate the air, but that is not what I am talking about. What I mean here is that Guy has many more safe approaches from the ground, and his whole pressure game happens on the ground. Nevertheless, players who can jump in correctly (reading their opponents moves, or jumping over projectiles, etc.), who use Kaiten Izuna Otoshi, know the safe jump set ups and who know how to bait out reversals and anti-airs from the perfect distance can make a good display of Guy's aerial game, but even so that should be complementary to his ground game, where the real deal goes on.
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  • Pedro MarquesPedro Marques I gotta work on my tutorial! Joined: Posts: 214
    Hello people!
    After weeks of hard work, and lots of help from str[e]ak and Blooddrunk, I finally managed to finish the tutorial for Beginners/Intermediates!
    Hope you enjoy, any criticism/comment will be more than welcome!

    Cheers!
    And it is time to post!
    Green light is on!
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  • BlooddrunkBlooddrunk Guy Guru Joined: Posts: 3,244 ✭✭✭
    Noticed a slight error easy fix though, Cr Hp is 9 frames, not Seven, if it were seven I would be riddled with excitement for extended combos. But that Makoto combo you mentioned with the J Hk, cr lk x3 , lk tatsu i got that to work but I assume its the spacing that would cause the 3rd hit to whiff. but I think if the last 2 hits of tatsu manage to hit the opponent you can juggle into the Super.

    In terms of the CH cr Hp and testing, its a little weird but I'll be working on the list unless someone has the time to do it.

    I appreciate the several shoutouts as well :]
    "My mains are normally Ninjas, Kung Fu artists, or Swords. I also love sleep and food."
  • C2QC2Q Joined: Posts: 1,166
    I need help to know what to do after a rsl. What mixups are available other than the standard crossup or safejump. Also setups after a bf throw.
  • BrunaleskiBrunaleski Joined: Posts: 23
    I want to contribute to this but this is pretty thorough. Dammit stop making me feel useless!

    Anyway I feel my strength in this game lies more towards my ability to quickly read my opponent and assess situations quickly, so my best contribution would be to post specific things in character match ups and when to do what and why, but this is a fighting game forum not a psychology class. =(
  • BlooddrunkBlooddrunk Guy Guru Joined: Posts: 3,244 ✭✭✭
    Well the best options is the safejump, just because its keeps pressure on them and you can use OS if they try to get away. But you can always pressure with throws/normals, 1 frame EX bushin flip set ups, but really your best option is to safejump.

    After Bushin Flip, you'll have another safejump, you can depending on the character and there wake up cross them up or dash in lp bushin flip for a 1 frame or spend a bar and do an EX one. The Lp Bushin flip is highly recommended in terms of the corner if you have a reversal happy player, as most reversals will whiff because you will be behind them and they won't be able to autocorrect, though some do autocorrect.
    "My mains are normally Ninjas, Kung Fu artists, or Swords. I also love sleep and food."
  • BlooddrunkBlooddrunk Guy Guru Joined: Posts: 3,244 ✭✭✭
    I want to contribute to this but this is pretty thorough. Dammit stop making me feel useless!

    Anyway I feel my strength in this game lies more towards my ability to quickly read my opponent and assess situations quickly, so my best contribution would be to post specific things in character match ups and when to do what and why, but this is a fighting game forum not a psychology class. =(

    That's why we have a match up thread :D, but of course you can always make your own thread to see and collect how everyone deals with a particular situation.
    "My mains are normally Ninjas, Kung Fu artists, or Swords. I also love sleep and food."
  • Pedro MarquesPedro Marques I gotta work on my tutorial! Joined: Posts: 214
    That's why we have a match up thread :D, but of course you can always make your own thread to see and collect how everyone deals with a particular situation.
    I agree
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  • Pedro MarquesPedro Marques I gotta work on my tutorial! Joined: Posts: 214
    Noticed a slight error easy fix though, Cr Hp is 9 frames, not Seven, if it were seven I would be riddled with excitement for extended combos. But that Makoto combo you mentioned with the J Hk, cr lk x3 , lk tatsu i got that to work but I assume its the spacing that would cause the 3rd hit to whiff. but I think if the last 2 hits of tatsu manage to hit the opponent you can juggle into the Super.

    In terms of the CH cr Hp and testing, its a little weird but I'll be working on the list unless someone has the time to do it.

    I appreciate the several shoutouts as well :]

    Corrected!
    the frames were a type error, the makoto thing I just tested, and yeah, its the space, I corrected that one too, and I am waiting for your list of characters for the walk a bit > bushin chain :lp: > :mp: > :hp: > :hk: or walk a bit > target combo :mp: > :hp:
    lets keep it rolling man!:tup:
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  • Pedro MarquesPedro Marques I gotta work on my tutorial! Joined: Posts: 214
    I need help to know what to do after a rsl. What mixups are available other than the standard crossup or safejump. Also setups after a bf throw.
    Just added the info at Air Game and its Pressure topic.
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  • Pedro MarquesPedro Marques I gotta work on my tutorial! Joined: Posts: 214
    Well the best options is the safejump, just because its keeps pressure on them and you can use OS if they try to get away. But you can always pressure with throws/normals, 1 frame EX bushin flip set ups, but really your best option is to safejump.

    After Bushin Flip, you'll have another safejump, you can depending on the character and there wake up cross them up or dash in lp bushin flip for a 1 frame or spend a bar and do an EX one. The Lp Bushin flip is highly recommended in terms of the corner if you have a reversal happy player, as most reversals will whiff because you will be behind them and they won't be able to autocorrect, though some do autocorrect.
    Added this, quoting you.
    Many thanks!
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  • Pedro MarquesPedro Marques I gotta work on my tutorial! Joined: Posts: 214
    I want to contribute to this but this is pretty thorough. Dammit stop making me feel useless!

    Anyway I feel my strength in this game lies more towards my ability to quickly read my opponent and assess situations quickly, so my best contribution would be to post specific things in character match ups and when to do what and why, but this is a fighting game forum not a psychology class. =(

    You have already contributed man, your name is quoted at the Practice topic. But you can always add more, I'd be glad to hear anything from you.
    About the character specific threads, I think they are essential and we lack on them. We don't have specific threads for many matchups, so you might as well start one.
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  • BlooddrunkBlooddrunk Guy Guru Joined: Posts: 3,244 ✭✭✭
    So I compiled the list for the Counter Hit Cr HP, Timing can be really strict for characters and it may be better to just do TC, Runslide or BC it's all up to you if you want to take the gamble of doing this, this can be done to most of the cast after cr lp > Cr Hp. Also if it helps a plinked cr Hp does inch Guy a little forward (you can test it in Training mode and have Guy glide across the screen,) If you manage to hit a Cr HP at max range and its a CH if you have meter you can do an EX hozanto. Most and best of all, on every character that LP hozanto will hit you can tact on a meterless U1, for 506 damage. Its also easier to tact on a EX hozanto or HK/EX Tatsu after the LP Hoz. Remember you have to walk forward to do all of this, and Cr HP leaves you at +11 so you have at most 6-7 frames to do all this respectively.

    CH Cr HP - TC - LP Hozanto
    Honda
    Dudley
    Gouken
    Yun
    Sim
    Abel
    Cody
    Guy
    Hakan
    Yang
    Guile
    Gief
    Rufus
    Vega/Claw
    Rog/Boxer
    Fei
    Hawk

    CH Cr HP - BC
    Honda
    Makoto
    Gouken
    Gen
    Yun
    Chun
    Sim
    Abel
    Viper
    Bison/Dict
    Deejay
    Cody
    Guy
    Hakan
    Yang
    Guile
    Fuerte
    Vega/Claw
    Rog/Boxer
    Hawk
    Adon

    CH Cr HP >TC
    Makoto
    Juri
    Chun
    Bison/Dict
    Cammy
    Deejay

    Sagat is unique, in the case where regardless if the Cr HP is a counter hit or not you can connect TC or BC without walking forward. For a regular hit though you'll have to delay the st mp a bit otherwise you'll miss the TC, Lp Hozanto will connect on Sagat, and U1 is doable if it helps on a CH Cr HP you can inch back a small bit so you'll manage to hit on the later frame but Sagat is the only character that is unique in this case.

    Everyone else this method does not work on them as they will be too far for BC or TC to connect.

    Also another CH combo, this only works on some of the cast but CH cr MP will link to Cl St HK or HK for that matter, and for characters with the bigger hitboxes that ths works on you can still do the Cl St HK, St Hp, St mp combo them. With an FADC U1 you'll do 568.
    "My mains are normally Ninjas, Kung Fu artists, or Swords. I also love sleep and food."
  • Pedro MarquesPedro Marques I gotta work on my tutorial! Joined: Posts: 214
    skip

    Thanks for the info man!
    I think it really shouldnt be me saying this, but since I am having no feedback at all on this tutorial, Ill ask anyway.
    Do you guys think it should be sticky?
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  • KreymoreKreymore Forward Joined: Posts: 260
    Thanks for the info man!
    I think it realy shouldnt be me saying this, but since I am having not feedback at all on this tutorial, Ill ask anyway.
    Do you guys think it should be sticky?

    It should definitely be sticky! It's a great resource for people to refresh themselves, apply different methods and learn entirely unfamiliar concepts. You guys (everyone involved) did a great job on this. It shouldn't go to waste.

    If I have anything to add, I will be sure to do so.
    Our work is never done.
  • Pedro MarquesPedro Marques I gotta work on my tutorial! Joined: Posts: 214
    It should definitely be sticky! It's a great resource for people to refresh themselves, apply different methods and learn entirely unfamiliar concepts. You guys (everyone involved) did a great job on this. It shouldn't go to waste.

    If I have anything to add, I will be sure to do so.

    Thx dude, your feedback is much appreciated.
    Be sure to add stuff, Ill be sure to update it!
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  • Guy PlayerGuy Player Bushin-ryu practitioner. Joined: Posts: 101
    Pedro , firstable I want to congratulate you for this great thread , really good information about Guy. Very helpful.

    I've looking to your nickname and Live ID , and I want to ask you something : are you brazilian? If so , I'm from Santos . Here in Sao Paulo we have some good Guy players like Kaka and Juninprogammer . Yoy may know them . They got real good AE skills.
  • str[e]akstr[e]ak Friendly Neighborhood Sneaker Ninja Joined: Posts: 2,870 ✭✭
    I'll send a PM to one of the mods to close your old thread and sticky this one. :tup:

    I haven't read through this new thread completely yet, but when I do, I'll see if I can add anything.
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  • BlooddrunkBlooddrunk Guy Guru Joined: Posts: 3,244 ✭✭✭
    New discovery at least I've never seen anyone mention it.

    But Cl st HK, TC Lp Hozanto allows you to do a meterless U1 on several characters. As far as I've tested it doesn't work on Sakura, Ibuki, Bison or Blanka. I was also going around the character selection because some characters have weird hitboxes.
    "My mains are normally Ninjas, Kung Fu artists, or Swords. I also love sleep and food."
  • Mr.SNKMr.SNK . . . . -B Joined: Posts: 1,809 mod
    Done.
    A article on how to get better at fighting games, give it a read you might learn something.
    http://shoryuken.com/blogs/mr-snk/learning-how-get-better-fighting-games-1456/#comments
    Random E.Honda footage/My Youtube page.
  • BlooddrunkBlooddrunk Guy Guru Joined: Posts: 3,244 ✭✭✭
    Done.
    appreciated it dude.
    "My mains are normally Ninjas, Kung Fu artists, or Swords. I also love sleep and food."
  • Mr.SNKMr.SNK . . . . -B Joined: Posts: 1,809 mod
    No problem, best of luck in 2012 against Honda.
    A article on how to get better at fighting games, give it a read you might learn something.
    http://shoryuken.com/blogs/mr-snk/learning-how-get-better-fighting-games-1456/#comments
    Random E.Honda footage/My Youtube page.
  • BlooddrunkBlooddrunk Guy Guru Joined: Posts: 3,244 ✭✭✭
    OS are handy :P
    "My mains are normally Ninjas, Kung Fu artists, or Swords. I also love sleep and food."
  • Pedro MarquesPedro Marques I gotta work on my tutorial! Joined: Posts: 214
    I corrected many typing mistakes and rewrote some things that were difficult to understand up to the Bushin Flip topic.
    I have no clue if even one person is actually reading this tutorial, but I'll try to correct everything by today, Including Blooddrunk's list.
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  • Pedro MarquesPedro Marques I gotta work on my tutorial! Joined: Posts: 214
    No problem, best of luck in 2012 against Honda.
    Thanks again for the sticky...and yes, we're gonna need all the OS and all the luck in the world against Honda now...
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  • Pedro MarquesPedro Marques I gotta work on my tutorial! Joined: Posts: 214
    New discovery at least I've never seen anyone mention it.

    But Cl st HK, TC Lp Hozanto allows you to do a meterless U1 on several characters. As far as I've tested it doesn't work on Sakura, Ibuki, Bison or Blanka. I was also going around the character selection because some characters have weird hitboxes.

    Just updated the Ultra 1 topic with this info. This is really a MAJOR finding and should be known by all Guy players. I also made a video on it, inside the same topic. Corrected everything up to the Ultras topic. Will keep up with the correction tomorrow!
    Cheers!
    Xbox Live Login - OTinhoso
    Japanese Arcades - ガイ人 (gaijin)
    YouTube channel dedicated to Guy:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/PedroMarques999?feature=mhee
    Your signature has been modifed, please read the rules.
  • Mr.SNKMr.SNK . . . . -B Joined: Posts: 1,809 mod
    http://youtu.be/83eMs89D56o

    My boy Mike has been putting a lot of work into Guy but towards the tail end of the video he dies to Adon, does anyone have some sound advice or idea in that match-up or is Guy just boned?
    A article on how to get better at fighting games, give it a read you might learn something.
    http://shoryuken.com/blogs/mr-snk/learning-how-get-better-fighting-games-1456/#comments
    Random E.Honda footage/My Youtube page.
  • BlooddrunkBlooddrunk Guy Guru Joined: Posts: 3,244 ✭✭✭
    Well aside from the video being hard to watch, He has a solid Guy but the Adon matchup is a climb.. the only way to beat his pressure when using Jaguar Kick is TK Izuna or EX tatsu. But from what i saw your friend just made one too many mistakes. Falling for safe jumps, he ended a block TC with tatsu, he just set himself up to get walked on. The first round of that match was great, he played it well. He could have easily won that round if he TK Izuna'd the Jaguar Kick or EX tatsu it. But Adon match up is similar to Sakura, if you can't get out of the pressure and play your footsies right.. its game over.
    "My mains are normally Ninjas, Kung Fu artists, or Swords. I also love sleep and food."
  • Pedro MarquesPedro Marques I gotta work on my tutorial! Joined: Posts: 214
    Just finished correcting the typing errors at all the topics.
    I also revised all the topics, and mainly added info to the counter hit topic. Adding more info, a new sub topic (overhead) and adding Blooddrunks calculation about CH cr. :hp: on each character.
    This is pretty much what this tutorial is going to look like. I hope someone, even one person would be great, read this in full. I know its a long read, but I wish I had half this information when I started playing.
    Nevertheless, the tutorial needs some cleaning and many corrections are yet to be made. So if anything could be added please let me know.
    Cheers!
    Xbox Live Login - OTinhoso
    Japanese Arcades - ガイ人 (gaijin)
    YouTube channel dedicated to Guy:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/PedroMarques999?feature=mhee
    Your signature has been modifed, please read the rules.
  • Kain_Kain_ Let's do this! Joined: Posts: 97
    I already read through this once when it was posted and just finished reading this again. I cant help adding more information on this thread as i still lack overall knowledge and skill as Guy(and street fighter) player but I would like to say that I really appreciate what you guys are doing,it really helps me(and I'm sure a lot of people) out.

    I might be relatively new to the game but I already have my goal set,I want to compete and do well in a big tournament held once a year in my country(I live in Thailand) as Guy,of course.:) I will keep training and hopefully I'll be able to show them the power of Bushinryu that will be forever etched into their retinas!

    btw i notice some typo
    Focus Attack

    Furthermore, FADC plays a important role on pressure game on block (you can FADC :lp:and :mp: Hozantos, for they are safe on block, so you can keep the pressure going), and on hit for landing a Ultra 1 in the corner (after any hozanto), so you better learn how to hozanto > FADC > Ultra 1 in the corner. The timing is a bitch, but you have to learn it on both sides of the screen, this is a must.

    Hozanto
    Hozanto is one of Guy's main special moves, and you are going to be using it a lot. Especially :lp: Hozanto, because it is the safest on block (-1). :lp: Hozanto can be comboed after a target combo :mp:>:hp:, and in the corner it leads to an air juggle that can be followed by HK BSK :qcb::hk: or FADC Ultra 1 for further damage. Near the corner, you can follow the same :lp:Hozanto with a EX Hozanto :qcb::2p:, in one of Guy's sexiest combos. :lp: Hozanto also comboes after a close st. :mp:.
    Bushinryu student in training.
  • BlooddrunkBlooddrunk Guy Guru Joined: Posts: 3,244 ✭✭✭
    Actually the part you have striked out isn't a typo, a cl st mp will combo into Lp Hozanto, a far st mp will not unless on counter hit, on ch a cl st mp will combo into mp hozanto. same with cl st hp.
    "My mains are normally Ninjas, Kung Fu artists, or Swords. I also love sleep and food."
  • Pedro MarquesPedro Marques I gotta work on my tutorial! Joined: Posts: 214
    I already read through this once when it was posted and just finished reading this again. I cant help adding more information on this thread as i still lack overall knowledge and skill as Guy(and street fighter) player but I would like to say that I really appreciate what you guys are doing,it really helps me(and I'm sure a lot of people) out.

    I might be relatively new to the game but I already have my goal set,I want to compete and do well in a big tournament held once a year in my country(I live in Thailand) as Guy,of course.:) I will keep training and hopefully I'll be able to show them the power of Bushinryu that will be forever etched into their retinas!

    btw i notice some typo

    Hello Kain_
    Thanks for replying and sharing your opinion about the thread. We all hope it helps you in your training with Guy.
    I like the idea you've got, that even though you are new to the scene you are aiming high...willing to do well in a big tourney...keep it up and you will surely achieve what you want!
    Already corrected the typo you found, thanks for the up. Also, found other typos everywhere (it seems there's no ending to them).
    If anybody finds more, or any other mistakes in my poor English that could compromise the understanding, please correct me.
    As for the place you stroke, as Blooddrunk already confirmed for me, it is actually correct. Maybe you misunderstood the cl. st. :mp: for a target combo :mp: > :hp: . Because if you are doing a target combo, it does not matter if the :mp: is close or far, the :lp: Hozanto will always combo. That is why the target combo is much more of a better option when compared to a far st. :mp: .
    Any questions, we'll be here for you.
    Best of luck in Thailand! If I ever travel there, I'll contact you!
    Xbox Live Login - OTinhoso
    Japanese Arcades - ガイ人 (gaijin)
    YouTube channel dedicated to Guy:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/PedroMarques999?feature=mhee
    Your signature has been modifed, please read the rules.
  • Pedro MarquesPedro Marques I gotta work on my tutorial! Joined: Posts: 214
    http://youtu.be/83eMs89D56o

    My boy Mike has been putting a lot of work into Guy but towards the tail end of the video he dies to Adon, does anyone have some sound advice or idea in that match-up or is Guy just boned?

    First of all, many thanks for the sticky again.
    Second, I thought I heard somebody call your friend Mike "streak" at some point of the video (aorund 30:00), is this Mike, by any chance, our str[e]ak?
    Anyways, I've sat through all Guy's fights and although I don't really feel confortable pointing out mistakes in others gameplay, especially somebody as good as him, I'll do it anyway (hopefully one day he does it with me too, I'd be glad).
    He is an amazing player. And I mean really good, like few I've seen. He has REALLY good anti-airs, especially in the first fights against the shotos, he was doing loads of instant izunas, I like that, that is sexy, works for the crowd and mindfucks your opponent. Also he knows very well the timing and spacing for the usage of HK and cr. MP in his anti-air game, I respect that.
    Still on his defensive game, I thought that in the first matches, he wasn't trying to reversal EX BSK too much on wake up. He remained calm and tryed to get out of pressure without having to reversal. For some reason, he was reversaling a lot against Adon, and that was fatal for him. It almost looked as if he was scared of the matchup. Which, by the way, although I agree on being an uphill, I don't think its one of the worst matchups at all. And I agree with Blooddrunk when he says he should have instant Izunad more the Jaguar kicks. Where did that technique from the previous matches go? However, even if he was aprehensive about using izunas or EX BSK, he could have simply used st. HK against jaguar kicks that are done from close distance, since st. HK beats Jaguar kicks clean and it is not hard to do it even on reaction. But honestly, that was not the reason he lost. He lost that match to himself. He made one too many mistakes. As Blooddrunk also said, he finished target combos on block with totally not safe moves, and he fell for safe jumps a lot. Personally, I like Ultra 2 the best against Adon, since you shut down Jaguar Tooth and all his safe jumps with it. So, about his defense, I think he was scared and he ended up cracking. And though I found him a really good player, specially in the first 3 matches, when you crack with Guy, you're done.
    Now, about the footsies, he used too many, I mean WAY TOO MANY roundhouses against Adon. Before, in the other matches he used more far st. MK. It looked like as if he was really scared of Adon's st. HK that he didn't try it even once, and this is not to talk about target combos, far st. MP > LP Hozanto, FA > dash in, etc. Talking about not safe, I really think he should definitely stop, I mean give up for real, on the risky LK BSK after a blocked Hozanto. I noticed he does it sometimes trying to bait out a normal, but the damage is just not worth the risk.
    Lastly, I think his offensive game could use some improvement, and I am talking specially about Run > Stop here. First of all, even when he was performing combos like cr. LK > cr. LK > far st. MP > Run ON HIT, he was stopping, and this is not only during the Adon match. I don't know if he was scared about if the link from the cr. moves into the st. MP would go well, but he should finish all of those with a Shadow Kick, and I think he agrees there's no discussion to it. So, maybe a little more practice on links, plinking and hit confirming. I know how tough this is. Believe me, I suffer from the same problem, every goddanm day. But on block, which is actually when the Run > Stop comes along, he wasn't stoping properlly sometimes. I think I saw it something like 4 or 5 times only in the Adon match, but he missed the stop part, and that is another thing that leads Guy straight into free punish damage. So my best advice for him is to get run stop nailed, I mean really nailed. It is the most difficult thing to do with Guy, I know it cause I have been trying to get to perfection in Run > Stop execution for 2 years now. Also, I personally think, and now I am probably going too far and being annoying, that he could use more variations in his frame traps. Use some more cl. st. MK, cr. LP > cr. MP, cr. LK > delayed target combo...and also throwing more as well. Run > Shadow Kick into FADC > FA > Dash forward is godlike as a counter hit set up, and I think he could implement that into his game as well. But this last one is really only my style speaking louder than anything.
    As for the Adon matchup, the footsies are important, but to be honest Guy loses in that sense. So this match up in my opinion is more about who is able to get a knockdown, get in and keep it in for the longest. Adon's reversals aren't fast enough frame wise, so all of Guy's safejumps work on him. The same goes for Guy, so once Adon is in it is difficult to get out (and here is where your friend Mike cracked). That and who wins the aerial fight (both characters have great options air-to-air and anti-air) are the most important things is this matchup in my opinion.
    Anyways, great Guy, lots of potential to get to a beast level. Congrats and keep up practing. Hope one day I could play him.
    Cheers!
    Xbox Live Login - OTinhoso
    Japanese Arcades - ガイ人 (gaijin)
    YouTube channel dedicated to Guy:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/PedroMarques999?feature=mhee
    Your signature has been modifed, please read the rules.
  • str[e]akstr[e]ak Friendly Neighborhood Sneaker Ninja Joined: Posts: 2,870 ✭✭
    Second, I thought I heard somebody call your friend Mike "streak" at some point of the video (aorund 30:00), is this Mike, by any chance, our str[e]ak?

    Nope. I live in New York.
    I enter tournaments as Real Life Bonus Stage:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/akaRLBS
    https://twitter.com/eddyRLBS

  • BlooddrunkBlooddrunk Guy Guru Joined: Posts: 3,244 ✭✭✭
    Damn Pedro beat me to the Ultra 2 mention, I completely forgot U2 beats all of his options, even Jaguar kicks that land in range of the move.

    But I should say he shouldn't finish all of his st mp combos into Run/slide.. he could mix in Run/Stop to go for a grab to surprise the opponent as they may be used to being KD'd and may still just block.
    "My mains are normally Ninjas, Kung Fu artists, or Swords. I also love sleep and food."
  • Lumina1reLumina1re Profound Badass Joined: Posts: 277
    Thanks for the critique Guys (lol pun intended), as you correctly guessed, I suck at the Adon match, and I totally choked as soon as that set started....Adon and Bison give me problems physically as well as mentally, I need to get over them as two of the better players in our AZ scene play them...any tips/critiques is always welcome =) thanks!
    He asked us......."Be you angels!?" BUT WE SAID NAY!

    WE ARE BUT MEN!

    ROCK
  • Pedro MarquesPedro Marques I gotta work on my tutorial! Joined: Posts: 214
    Thanks for the critique Guys (lol pun intended), as you correctly guessed, I suck at the Adon match, and I totally choked as soon as that set started....Adon and Bison give me problems physically as well as mentally, I need to get over them as two of the better players in our AZ scene play them...any tips/critiques is always welcome =) thanks!

    No problem dude. If you have anything to add to the tutorial please. And next time, when you have any fight you want us to watch and comment, please post it on the video thread!
    Cheers!
    Damn Pedro beat me to the Ultra 2 mention, I completely forgot U2 beats all of his options, even Jaguar kicks that land in range of the move.
    But I should say he shouldn't finish all of his st mp combos into Run/slide.. he could mix in Run/Stop to go for a grab to surprise the opponent as they may be used to being KD'd and may still just block.

    You're right my good friend. Mixing up from times to times wouldn't hurt. But I didn't beat you or anything, we are on the same side here! :tup:
    Xbox Live Login - OTinhoso
    Japanese Arcades - ガイ人 (gaijin)
    YouTube channel dedicated to Guy:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/PedroMarques999?feature=mhee
    Your signature has been modifed, please read the rules.
  • Lumina1reLumina1re Profound Badass Joined: Posts: 277
    Here's that st. mk backthrow safe jump setup you requested, and although I could be wrong, I do believe that the neutral jump safe jump after a run slide has complications with all the characters that require the st. mk backthrow safe jump setup......I know Fei, Twins, Cammy, and Blanka seem not work for the run slide neutral safe jump (at least for OS) but perhaps my timing is just off. Make sure to give Alboshinobi (Obey) all the credit, its his video, I just use it lol.

    He asked us......."Be you angels!?" BUT WE SAID NAY!

    WE ARE BUT MEN!

    ROCK
  • KreymoreKreymore Forward Joined: Posts: 260
    Obey and AlboShinobi are two different people. It's cool though. The neutral jump safe jump does work on the twins. It's just that the timing is more strict because of their hit box adjustment upon okizeme.
    Our work is never done.
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